President of Brazil Lashes Out At NSA Espionage Programs In Speech To UN 260
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The Guardian reports that Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff launched a blistering attack on US espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of Brazilian citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries. 'Personal data of citizens was intercepted indiscriminately. Corporate information – often of high economic and even strategic value – was at the center of espionage activity,' said Rousseff. 'Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted.' Rousseff's angry speech was a direct challenge to President Barack Obama, who was waiting in the wings to deliver his own address to the UN general assembly, and represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff, who has proposed that Brazil build its own internet infrastructure. 'Friendly governments and societies that seek to build a true strategic partnership, as in our case, cannot allow recurring illegal actions to take place as if they were normal. They are unacceptable.'"
Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Enough said.
Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (Score:4, Insightful)
But hey, they're not wrong, and that doesn't excuse what the NSA is doing. Has done. Is accused of doing.
Re:Commendable (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't mean that they should just give up fighting. The data is probably 99.999% junk anyway, but that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and accept governments breaking international laws.
Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts (Score:5, Insightful)
Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff
Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts"...
Obama with a poker face: Well we spy on you to protect the world against Terrorism
Dilma: So I was suspected of terrorism, even if I was the candidate for the ruling party of an country without conflicts with the US.
Obama: But with terror...
Dilma: And If I was suspected of terrorism, the why did you spy on our major petrol company...
Obama: Err terror...
Dilma: Fuck-You.
accusing the NSA of violating international law by [...]
And the rest of the world, doesn't care what is the NSA, for us it's the US that's spying, so no she accused the the US...
Fair enough but (Score:1, Insightful)
What about the super secret nuclear plant at Recende which even the normally craven IAEA says is bizarrely inaccessible? What about Brazil's SNI and ABIN intelligence agencies which are literally only answerable to the person of the President and even that only nominally and that they had been caught wiretapping every single person in the Federal government in 2008?
Hypocrites (Score:5, Insightful)
International Diplomatic Fallout? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would much, much rather see Washington DC pay a very high, very personal price for their rampant criminality and violations of the Constitution, as in all of them swinging from the trees that line the national mall and DC itself burnt to the ground with large letters scored in the ground with a bulldozer that say, 'Don't Tread On Me! ---The American People"
An angry speech by the president of Brazil is nice, but there need to be real consequences for these criminals.
The anger is justified (Score:4, Insightful)
As many are forgetting, let's summarize the real reason for such anger: industrial spying (towards Petrobras, Brazil's biggest company) and spying over a government with more than a century of friendly relations.
The article points this as well: "As host to the UN headquarters, the US has been attacked from the general assembly many times in the past, but what made Rousseff's denunciation all the more painful diplomatically was the fact that it was delivered on behalf of large, increasingly powerful and historically friendly state."
I hear ya (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me tell all of you from outside the U.S. that our government's excuse "hey, we're only spying on foreigners, not Americans" would be disgusting even if it weren't a pack of lies.
Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering that contents of the speech were widely known quite a while before it was given by the press, I imagine they were probably stepping up their efforts to pour money into Rousseff's political opponents pockets while preparing an assassination mission, as US has usually done when a Latin America leader didn't please them.
Re:NSA's fucking job (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I've read this excuse a million times since Snowden did his thing, and I'm sick of it.
The problem is it's an abuse of language. Saying "Every country spies. It's one of those things governments are supposed to do" is nothing but rhetorical sleight of hand. The word spy conjures up cartoons of men in pork-pie hats and long raincoats following some traitor in a car. The word is loaded with cold war imagery. It reminds people of a time when there was an "us" vs a "them" and spying was a very small scale and targeted activity done against "them" or, at very least, those of "us" working for "them".
We need a new word to describe what's going on in todays world. Spying doesn't even come close to being the right word. How about totalitarian surveillance? But even that isn't strong enough to communicate the reality we are living in.
In today's reality there's no us vs them. There's no good vs evil, capitalism vs communism. There's just bureaucrats and their power, exercised over their own people as readily as over foreigners.
This is not only not "one of those things governments are supposed to do", it's often one of those things governments are expressly prohibited from doing by their own laws. And that's for good reasons!
Please, don't flatter the NSA by calling them spies. They aren't spies at this point. They are real life equivalents of O'Brien, the dedicated agent of totalitarian control [sparknotes.com] in 1984. O'Brien is a far darker and scarier character than anyone who could be described as a spy.
Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevermind, all of this is acceptable as long as a Democrat is running things.
I'm not sure what alternate universe you just came over from. But in this universe, most of us here on Slashdot have plenty of disgust with BOTH major political parties in the U.S., and their leaders. The closest thing to a consensus here is that the "Democrats" and "Republicans" are both just wings of the Corporationalist Party that really controls everything here now.
Protesting too much... (Score:3, Insightful)
Which particular law did the the lady have in mind?
Spying on other countries is what all countries do — to the best of their abilities. Perhaps, Brazil's abilities aren't a match for those of the US — and not just in the field of spying. I can see, how the resulting jealousy — among politicians and ordinary citizens alike — can lead to some fiery speeches, but the audience better remember, there is nothing the US has done, that any other country wouldn't have, if only it were able to.
Now, spying on one's own citizens — that's bad. But that's not a matter for international law, is it?
Re:Hypocrite States of America (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with large empires collapsing quickly rather than slowly is that those in the audience rarely get to live a life good enough to be able to enjoy it.
Re:Protesting too much... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, but it's a matter of international douche-baggery and people getting tired of the US thinking themselves superior to the rest of the world.
The rest of the world doesn't see it that way and doesn't give a shit.
Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? (Score:3, Insightful)
The real consequences are already happening. By Brazil making a "noise" about it now, it weakens US position regards other nations disregarding international laws. It runs the risk of say, other nations disregarding their Intellectual Property treaties with US. If US tried any actual actions to prevent this, they would just counter it by demanding punishment of concerned parties. Don't assume that US still has the clout it used to enjoy before. Think of China for example. USA just handed China a license to act in similar fashion against it, and it has by itself, undermined any ethical or moral position it could have had to prevent it.
Re:Hypocrites (Score:4, Insightful)
Back then they didn't know they themselves had been spied on. But I agree. It didn't take a Kreskin to see the spying on Brazil revelations coming once they started. They should have stood up for it. In fairness to the region, other Latin American countries did.
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't matter. Chavez was widely popular in Venezuela in spite of massive efforts to destroy his popularity. Now that he's out of the picture, his followers are not strong enough leaders to withstand the massive pressure US is still putting on Venezuela and slowly losing popularity.
In many cases, a good cause requires a strong charismatic leader and cannot continue without one in face of great adversity.
Re:Protesting too much... (Score:5, Insightful)
We are superior.
My grandparents remember when a certain country between Poland and France had the same idea. It didn't end well, for anyone.
Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now, Brazil is the world leader in deep sea oil exploration/extraction (way, WAY ahead of any other). Also, it has the most successful alternative fuel program in the world (most successful by any measure you chose, be it price, adoption, w/e). Those two things alone paint a big target mark in the country's back, and make it a prime target for espionage. The USA tried to buy those technologies in the past, and was mostly refused, if I recall correctly.
Some people will say that Brazil once had a nuke program. Who cares? These fuel technologies are a bigger threat to the USA than any patched up nukes would be, by the simple fact Brazil is using them, and they are making a difference. See all the wars that are fought because of oil, and all the anti-ethanol lobbing always going on in the US.
Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect its mostly the petrodollar issue. Because lets face it; the US Economy is largely farcical.
If a major non-dollar international trade circuit developed, the following drop in dollar demand would probably be so steep there is nothing the FED could do to control inflation.
Stands to bring down the entire house of cards.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I think we are just happy to see Brazil is angry about it because we percieve our government as being more likely to listen to foreign diplomats than it us, it's own people. There might actually be some kind of consequence to pissing off enough UN member nations. What will the citizens do? Vote for the other lizard?
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
But I am sure if someone spying in the U.S. for Brazil gets caught, no one in the U.S. administration will go in froint of the press and state: "It's ok. Every country with any international dealings has an espionage agency."
So what you are saying is purely and utterly missing the point.
And "the others do it too" was never a valid excuse for any misdeeds. You don't believe it? Try it the next time you get caught speeding.