Snowden Shortlisted For Europe's Top Human Rights Award 273
another random user sends this news from the BBC:
"Edward Snowden, the fugitive American former intelligence worker, has made the shortlist of three for the Sakharov prize, Europe's top human rights award. Mr Snowden was nominated by Green politicians in the European Parliament for leaking details of U.S. surveillance. Nominees also include Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani teenager shot in the head for demanding education for girls. Former recipients of the prize, awarded by the European Parliament, include Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi. Mr Snowden's nomination recognized that his disclosure of U.S. surveillance activities was an 'enormous service' to human rights and European citizens, the parliament's Green group said."
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed.
Normally I would scoff at Snowden being included on a list like this. I was a bit put off by Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize before actually doing anything, and a bit put off at Assange being nominated for something simliar, because both seemed like self-serving political statements to me, but on reflection, what Snowden has done was controlled, targeted and highly effective, in my opinion. It was far from the uncontrolled dump that Bradley Manning did, or the barely-controlled shitstorm that Assange supervised.
In the same vein, the leak, while angering many Americans, should be a huge benefit for citizens of every country, both outside the US, but also inside. A great gain for Europeans, as far as awareness of human rights issues.
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
Snowden's revelations are much more important to the world as a whole. That the punishment wreaked on the person in Pakistan is much worse than that Snowden has yet received is beside the point. By exposing a corrupt machine that is used in the process of killing numerous innocents around the world through drone attacks is but one example of how Snowden's information can save many lives. Then of course there is the privacy right of the entire fucking planet. Female education abuses in some parts of Pakistan are important, but they just aren't anything like the scale of Snowden's whistleblowing.
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
Snowden was and continues to be at far higher risk of assassination than Malala. He's just been luckier.
So far.
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
How the message was delivered is less important as well. Manning couldn't exactly form a team to manage the data better without arousing some suspicions and shutting it down before it got anywhere. Lamo stabbed him in the back after all. And Assange may be an egomaniac, but people who do unusual things often are. Anyway, if the messenger is annoying, that may make you want to shoot him more if you already wanted to shoot someone for the message, but you should resist that temptation.
Both? (Score:5, Interesting)
People have shared the Nobel Peace Prize and such before, why not award the prize to both Snowden and Malala this year? What they each did took a tremendous amount of courage and has made a powerful statement for human rights everywhere. And when I think about it, pissing off the Taliban the next village is a very scary and brave thing to do, but then so is pissing off the most powerful government on the planet which commands unlimited numbers of scary commandos, assassins, and gunmen who can kill you no matter where you go. They're both epic, epic heros for what they've done.
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:2, Interesting)
Then you aren't paying attention.
My well-reasoned replies to my emotional detractors notwithstanding, it may just be possible that I simply view other things as more important than what the NSA is doing right now. The NSA's surveillance is an abstract problem for libertarians and internet pundits. People starving, going without healthcare, not being able to get married -- all of which have been news in just the last few months... those things affect tens to hundreds of millions in a very direct and personal way, every day, right now. People like you blather on the internet spitting at anyone who says it's not a big deal...but in truth, it isn't.
It's a problem, but I have bigger priorities (as do most others) than "Is the guv'ment spying on me while I masturbate?" Priorities like watching people I know and love wither and die because of a lack of access to medical facilities. How is that even right in a country that has the largest economy on Earth? Take a walk through some of the inner city schools -- there's black kids there that look like holocaust victims from hunger and malnutrition. Detroit is a crime-ridden wasteland that is more dangerous to drive through than a village in Iraq filled with Taliban. We've had entire cities in the past few years literally washed into the ocean, and you can still see the devastation from space. Very little help has come to those people from our government.
So don't try and tell me I'm not paying attention because I find your little pet peeve about some government g-men keeping you under surveillance! In truth, you aren't that damned important. They don't care about you. I would fucking love it if the NSA setup a black van outside my house and monitored me. It might make the fact that I'm stuck in my mom's basement, unemployed, feel not as bad -- because I've had to pass up one job after another because I can't get decent healthcare with part time jobs or pretty much anything that brings in less than $23 an hour. And those jobs... they're as rare as unicorns right now. And before you go blithering on like some moron trying to change topics -- this isn't about me. I'm just one example amongst an entire generation of examples. There are over fifty million people right now just like me, and not all of them are as fortunate as I am to even have a roof over my head or the internet to make this post.
Get your head screwed on straight: Personal privacy is an issue, but it's not a priority and it doesn't trump more basic needs like food, shelter, and clothing -- and we need those right now. A lot of people need them. We are now coming up on year SEVEN and economists estimate that unemployment levels won't return to pre-recession levels for ANOTHER seven years. Don't tell me Snowden matters. Don't tell me the NSA is important. We have hungry people out there. Hungry, desperate, unemployed people.
I took a message, okay? And if and when I run into an opportunity to tell the NSA where to shove it, yeah, I'll remember The S(nowden) Files... but until then, don't try and dictate priorities to me. We're in bad times right now man.
Re:Props to the Green Party (Score:2, Interesting)
The Green group in the European parliament has already mostly adopted [techdirt.com] the Swedish Pirate Party's stance on copyright.
Re:Comparative sacrifice (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, because we all know how successful government spying on every citizen had managed to keep Muslim militants in line and cartels and gangsters from existing.
Yes... let's have a closer look, shall we?
Boston Marathon bombing
Caught with the assistance of a multitude of surveillance cameras in the area. The internet pundits identitifed the wrong people, repeatedly. This shows that not only is surveillance important, but that processing surveillance data is not something that an untrained, or even talented, individual can do.
Sarin Gas attack by Syria
Thanks to real-time satellite intelligence over the middle east, we were able to not only spot the attack, but able to warn local health care of the impending crisis. The casualty count was very low considering thousands were exposed; This was not accidental. As well, those same satellites allowed near real-time communication between activists and the global community, assisting in bringing prompt political pressure to the government to cease use of chemical weapons. As a direct result of that, a few weeks later, the government agreed to surrender its entire stockpile.
School shooting rampages
Cameras in schools have allowed us to quickly identify attackers and separate facts from fiction. One of the earliest examples is the Columbine massacre, where review of surveillance footage was able to provide immediate identification of the attackers, as well as their moment by moment movements within the school. Eyewitness accounts were highly divergent and many myths, including that they were purposefully targeting christians, came out of that. The camera, however, had no such agenda, and recordings set the record straight.
9/11
An unprecidented terrorist attack caught on film by dozens of eyewitnesses is a strong barrier against accusations that the government planned it, that the airplanes were loaded with explosives, and a great many other conspiracy theories. Videographic evidence has been able eliminate all of these. As well, a global network of satellites was able to gather valuable scientific data on contrails during the time where there were no flights over the United States; Being able to have high resolution copies of all clouds over the entire continent generated valuable data for weather forcasting and the impact on contrails in the natural environment.
1000 killed by car bombs in Iraq in September alone
Iraq lacks much in the way of surveillance. Many of those planting car bombs are never caught because there are no pictures until after the bomb explodes.
One Drug Killing every half hour in Mexico
Mexico contains very little in the way of surveillance gear, except that used by the drug cartels to track the movements of both rival gangs and local law enforcement. They have even built their own cellular communications network; The labor was provided by kidnapped telecoms employees. Needless to say, without access to surveillance equipment, Mexican authorities have no way to get a handle on the problem, and it is running rampant.
With protection like that, who needs them!
Your own examples provide an ample rebuttal to your snarky reparte here; In fact, surveillance has provided a great deal of protection in every case mentioned... and where it was lacking, unattributed violence and mass acts of terrorism is present.
I think this provides clear and unambiguous evidence that surveillance does help keep crime down; Not just those "muslim militants" and "cartels and gangers", but police officers as well. Dash cameras have led to more than a few corrupt officers being dismissed, and our courts are less clogged with traffic court cases than ever before -- thanks in part to impartial video footage that shows every detail. Conviction rates have improved as well, as anyone who watches the TV series Cops can attest to -- there's many things an officer misses during a pursuit that the camera records. Like how 7 minutes into the chase, they threw their drugs out the window, or a gun, etc. These are things officers can then go back and recover, before children come across them and injure or kill themselves.