British Police Foil Alleged Mall Massacre Copycat Plot 292
An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post reports, "British law enforcement agencies averted a plot to orchestrate a large-scale terror attack similar to the assault on Kenya's Westgate mall, an official said Monday. Police were questioning four men in their 20s on suspicion of terrorism after they were detained Sunday in pre-planned, intelligence-led raids. A British security official said the men were planning a shooting spree akin to the Westgate attack in Nairobi, in which at least 67 people died. ... in a series of statements, the force said the men were all British nationals between the ages of 25 and 29, with roots in Turkey, Pakistan, Algeria and Azerbaijan. ... the London police firearms unit took part in the arrests. British police rarely carry weapons and their involvement suggested concern that men might have been armed." — The Sydney Morning Herald has video. Prime Minister Cameron recently expressed concern regarding such a possibility."
Re:Firearms unit (Score:5, Informative)
That's because in the US, most potentially violent criminals carry guns. Thus police have to assume every potentially violent criminal is carrying a gun until searched proven otherwise, or else place their own lives in danger - if an offender is reaching into his pocket, there's no time to calmly try to talk him down. In the UK, guns are quite rare even to hardened criminals due to the difficulty obtaining them. For our street thugs, knives are the weapon of choice. So our police can be a bit less cautious.
Re:DOUBLEPLUS (Score:5, Informative)
Re:DOUBLEPLUS (Score:5, Informative)
One man [mirror.co.uk] and he was off-duty.
and Israeli commandos in Westgate
Those commandos were airlifted [ibtimes.co.uk] after the siege began. They were not there when things happened.
Either go back on or get your off meds because the tinfoil isn't working.
Re:DOUBLEPLUS (Score:4, Informative)
This happened in San Antonio... one of the malls had a mass shooting abruptly stopped by a concealed weapons carrier pointing his piece at the shooter making his opening rounds... and stopping the massacre before it started.
I wish having to have everyone armed was not necessary. I wish the US had a federal police force where officer training was on par with Germany's officers or English bobbies. Stuff like knowing the law, unarmed combat, situation de-escalation, and being able to handle a situation with words as opposed to pulling out the stungun or the .40 and opening fire.
It used to be this way. I remember days where a simple clearing of the throat by a police officer would immediately stop a fight. I remember when an arrest was a "you are coming with me" statement, not this down on the ground ritual of cuffing and stuffing.
Would I live in a police state? If the police were beholden to the people and there wasn't this mutual fear (police fear citizens, citizens fear police), then yes. Let people who are trained and know what they are doing (and the ramifications of their actions) enforce things. A society needs laws (and enforcement) to function, but on the other hand, the laws have to be made so they don't breed contempt (like the "war on drugs" crap.)
Re:Impossible (Score:3, Informative)
No, firearms are not illegal in the UK - that's a common misconception.. Some specific types of firearms are illegal (e.g. handguns), the rest require the owner to hold a firearms licence.
Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
This is such a non-story the BBC aren't bothering to report it.
False.
Terror raid: Police continue to quiz London suspects [bbc.co.uk]
Terror raid: London suspects questioned [bbc.co.uk]
Re:British police rarely carry weapons (Score:1, Informative)
Lets get something straight. The NRA doesn't give a damn about you. They are not an organization that represents gun owners. They represent gun manufacturers and sellers. 75% of NRA members are in favor of common sense gun restrictions, like background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and unstable. The NRA fought against it because it would hurt the bottom line of the only people they care about supporting.
If you support the NRA, you are a dupe and you are being used by people who don't care if you live or die as long as they make a profit, pure and simple.
I have no problem with guns as long as they are used responsibly, and I support people's right to defend themselves against crime, but take a close look at where your loyalties are.
Re:DOUBLEPLUS (Score:5, Informative)
Quite correct.
Luby's massacre [wikipedia.org]
In response to the massacre,[21] the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $140 for a four year license; in addition applicants must pay $10 for fingerprinting as well as instructor costs which vary.
And so: Woman with Concealed Carry Permit Stops 6 Robbers in Houston [townhall.com]
Re:We don't bother with sidearms, we use BIG GUNS (Score:4, Informative)
AR-15 assault rifle.
AR-15 is semi-automatic, so by definition it is not an assault rifle.
M-16, the military variant, has the select fire feature. M-16 is an assault rifle.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled gun bickering.
Re:DOUBLEPLUS (Score:4, Informative)
And the deadliest school massacre to date did not involve firearms... [wikipedia.org]
Nor was it in Texas.
Re:More info (Score:5, Informative)
Since 2000, we have seen serious major acts of terrorism in this country typically once or twice a year.â
Really? I don't recall one or two major acts of terrorism a year since 2000. In fact I only recall one (7/7), and maybe you could count the bungled attempt to bomb an airport but those guys were laughably dumb. So what are the other 20 odd major acts of terrorism that I somehow slept through?
( Note to moderators: The question was asked, I'm answering it. )
Here is a starter for you. I'm quite sure there are more out there since this was just a hasty search. When I started this post I was assuming that plots would count as "acts," but it looks like the number goes well over anyway between the various Islamists and the Real IRA. (As this was done in haste I may have posted something redundant, but it really doesn't alter the outcome much. A more careful search would no doubt turn up more.)
Bomb plot: Life sentence for Irfan Naseer, ringleader of Birmingham men planning wave of UK suicide attacks [independent.co.uk]
London terror bomb plot: the four terrorists [telegraph.co.uk]
Four men pleaded guilty to plotting a Christmas bomb attack on the London Stock Exchange and causing a 'Mumbai-style' atrocity.
Fertiliser bomb plot: The story [bbc.co.uk]
Five men have been convicted of plotting to build a bomb which police say could have killed hundreds of British people. The men were caught after police and MI5 launched a massive surveillance operation.
British terrorists conspired in bombs plot - security officials [theguardian.com]
Counter-terrorism officials said last night they believe British terrorists who are still at large were involved in the conspiracy to launch car bomb attacks on London and Glasgow.
Details emerged as it became clear that five of the suspects under arrest are doctors working and training in the NHS, and one is a doctor working in Australia where he was arrested last night.
Airline terror trial: The bomb plot to kill 10,000 people [telegraph.co.uk]
On honeymoon in the sunshine, Britons who forged a terror plot to plant peroxide and bleach bombs in Jewish areas [dailymail.co.uk]
Shasta Khan and her husband also had beheading videos, bomb-making guides and bleach at their home
Police found the terror-related material after being called to a domestic dispute at their house
A satnav showed they had been on multiple trips to Jewish populated areas looking for targets
British soldier hacked to death in suspected Islamist attack [reuters.com]
A British soldier was hacked to death by two men shouting Islamic slogans in a south London street on Wednesday, in what the government said appeared to be a terrorist attack.
A dramatic clip filmed by an onlooker just minutes after the killing showed a man with hands covered in blood, brandishing a bloodied meat cleaver and a knife. "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day," the black man in his 20s or 30s, wearing a wool jacket and jeans