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Wayland 1.4 Released — Touch, Sub-Surface Protocol, Crop/Scale Support 128

Posted by Soulskill
from the onward-and-upward dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Version 1.4 of the Wayland protocol and Weston reference compositor have been released. The Wayland/Weston 1.4 release delivers on many features and includes promoting the sub-surface protocol to official Wayland, improved touch screen support, a crop/scale protocol within Weston, security improvements, and other fixes."
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Wayland 1.4 Released — Touch, Sub-Surface Protocol, Crop/Scale Support

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  • by Tailhook (98486) on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:16PM (#46061911)

    Just to preclude about half of the coming threads.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And the best thing is that X is no longer network transparent, it's network capable in a way similar to vnc. With the current rendering methods (shm and dri2) you no longer send commands, you send image buffers.
      Here, listen what a X developer has to say about that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44#t=1111 [youtube.com]

      • by marcello_dl (667940) on Friday January 24, 2014 @08:11PM (#46063359) Homepage Journal

        All I want is to ssh -C -X and open remote apps and use them like local ones, seamless cutting and pasting. It is quite handy in a LAN. Remote desktop preserving state is useful for monitoring, this is useful for office work. Different scenarios.

        So, the race now is between new faster compositors who need X protocols layered for compatibility and features and javascript obfuscated apps replacing networked native applications...

      • by Uecker (1842596)

        Sigh, this gets old. I use it everyday and it works! So yes, it is network transparent.

      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by jedidiah (1196)

        > And the best thing is that X is no longer network transparent, it's network capable in a way similar to vnc

        Then why is VNC so god-damned awful in comparison? Even on a fast local wired network VNC sucks great big donkey balls. VNC on a local network is less usable than either RDP or X (with compression) are across the Internet.

        The disaster that is VNC on MacOS is why I find the idea of Wayland so repugnant.

        • VNC is highly dependent on how clever/fast your image scraping and compression is. The TigerVNC client connecting over a LAN to a TightVNC windows server is so much faster then some of the other clients its unbelievable. Even over the net it's much quicker then others (TemaViewer's VNC client is terrible).

          The problem is very much "how quickly can you get a copy of the pixels" "how quickly can you compress them" and "how many screen sections do you need to update".

          The slightly disappointing thing (or thing I

          • Follow up: And it looks like sub-surface support is exactly what I was just complaining about - a way to update small portions of your window and tell the compositor that's what you're doing. Make your editing windows subsurfaces and only send the necessary updates.

      • by sjames (1099)

        I have NEVER seen an X app that wouldn't run just fine over the net and neatly appear on my desktop as if it were running there. Can you name one?

        Unlike vnc, it doesn't make me display the whole desktop in a window and then the app window within that. It also doesn't require an X server on the remote side. If the app uses a tray icon, that works normally as well.

        It's trivially easy to do all of that through sh as well for ease and security. When Wayland is up to that, give me a call.

        • by drinkypoo (153816)

          I have NEVER seen an X app that wouldn't run just fine over the net and neatly appear on my desktop as if it were running there. Can you name one?

          Anything which uses OpenGL has about a 50:50 chance of working at all, and an even lower chance of working correctly. The protocol allows for it, but it just doesn't work most of the time.

          • by dbIII (701233)
            Bullshit. I've been using OpenGL stuff remotely since the late 90s with hardly any problems I can remember - and nearly all of those were due to cheap video hardware that hardly anyone has used in the last decade.
            • by drinkypoo (153816)

              Well, I've been trying it since the late 90s and it's been seriously hit-or-miss, even on mainstream hardware.

              • by dbIII (701233)
                I've been implementing it on many systems since the late 1990s for a variety of people. It's more or less how I stopped being an engineer and became a wrangler of herds of computers.
          • by sjames (1099)

            I have also seen some issues there, but in every case, the app wouldn't run locally either. That is, the network transparency part wasn't the issue.

      • by Trogre (513942)

        Oh dear.

        Look, I don't care whether or not X technically has pure network transparency any more. All I and just about every other multi-system-Linux user want is to ssh to another computer and have individual programs launched from that shell show up on my screen as if I was sitting at the remote computer.

        If Wayland does that then there's no problem.

        X does this right now, though admittedly these days addons like xpra are needed to make it usable over slow links.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      As long as ssh -X doesn't work, it's a no-go for Wayland. I don't care HOW it is implemented though!

  • by Khopesh (112447) on Friday January 24, 2014 @05:22PM (#46061977) Homepage Journal
    It's a small step forward. From the release notes [freedesktop.org],

    The wayland repository continues to mature and moves slowly. This cycle again only saw a few wayland changes, most of which where fairly unexciting:

    - SHM Buffer SIBGUS protection. We added and couple of utility functions to help compositors guard against broken or malicious clients who could truncate the backing file for shm buffers and thus trigger SIGBUS in the compositor (Neil Roberts).

    - Subsurfaces protocol moved to wayland repo and as such promoted to official wayland protocol (Pekka Paalanen).

    - wl_proxy_set_queue() can take a NULL queue to reset back to default queue. (Neil Roberts).

    - A few bug fixes, in particular, I'd like highlight the fix for the race between wl_proxy_create() and wl_proxy_marshal().

    - A few scanner error message improvements and documentation tweaks and polish.

    I'm hoping the Maui Project [maui-project.org] (which uses Wayland [slashdot.org]) can continue to gain momentum as Wayland does and that it becomes a viable option in the next few years.

    • So they say GNOME has too little configuration options, and KDE has too much confusing options. Their UI is similar to just about every other UI out there in free desktop land, except maybe the icons are different. You could theoretically, just create a KDE distribution (since they like QT) and then jsut programmatically create a good default and then a good theme and call it good. No need to change anything.
  • Hey guys, what happened to explaining what something might be on the front page description? I'll be flogged for this and called a troll but I've got no idea what this might be. And I'm sure that I'm not alone.
    • by kwerle (39371)

      Yeah, I'm mostly with you - though this has been bubbling on /. for ... a couple of years, now? Still - you're right and the editors suck.

      Wayland is an alternative display system that could maybe someday replace X.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • Re:So... what is it? (Score:5, Informative)

      by coolsnowmen (695297) on Friday January 24, 2014 @06:24PM (#46062539)

      Some guys who worked on Xorg/X11 for years are redesigning it to be better. They got some good ideas but it will be a while before it can actually replace Xorg/X11. Here is something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]

      • by 0123456 (636235) on Friday January 24, 2014 @06:41PM (#46062725)

        Some guys who worked on Xorg/X11 for years are redesigning it to be better.

        Yes.

        'Xorg sucks, but this new interface it will be much better. Trust us! We wrote Xorg!'

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          How about:

          "For 20 years we've been developing the code that allowed _actual_ applications to do what they do while being shackled by this protocol dreamed up by people who , for the obvious reason, didn't have a clue where things were going. Now we think we have a _pretty good_ idea of how this should work, unlike the aforementioned, and the hordes of muppets on the internet, so we're doing it. But no one's forcing you to use it. You're more than welcome to get coding on x.org or xfree instead of whining on

        • by thegarbz (1787294)

          No one wrote X-org. It was a fork of XFree implementation of X11. They just removed some 500k of worthless lines of code from XFree and that became X-Org.
          The intent was to try and make do, it was not to fix the underlying problem.

          If you go to a chef and give him a cake made entirely of cow dung and asked them to make it taste better with the restriction that he can only use dung from an animal, how do you think the cake will turn out?

          The cake is XFree86, the animal dung was added to make X-Org, and the requ

          • by jedidiah (1196)

            > it couldn't possibly be any worse than X.

            But it can be worse. It can do less and will have no decent device driver support.

            The developer priesthood needs to venture forth from it's echo chamber once in awhile and actually observe real end users.

            • by Microlith (54737)

              It can do less

              By doing less it reduces attack surface and increases maintainability. No more wondering why Xorg won't start because it can't find some useless raster font. Everything is done in toolkits that render to buffers these days.

              will have no decent device driver support.

              The following quote from the Wayland FAQ is entirely true:

              Where possible, Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure.

              Wayland uses EGL and GLES2, which means that any driver that exports those (virtually all of them, given th

              • by sjames (1099)

                void main() {} is pretty reliable too. No exploits, no mysteries. It does nothing every time, just like it's supposed to.

                But it will never be a popular productivity tool.

      • Keith Packard saying "keep up the good work" is NOT some guys who worked on Xorg/X11 for years redesigning it to make it better. Some fanboys like to pretend it's so but that's just misleading name dropping.

        What did happen is a guy who wrote an extension to X recently decided he'd do his own project which differs from X in many ways.
        It's really about putting stuff into a framebuffer instead of the more complex X framework. That pushed a lot more complexity back onto the writers of the applications but th
        • by Microlith (54737)

          there's hope (and some evidence) that writers of toolkits such as Qt will pick up the slack.

          Err, I don't know why you put it in such thin terms. Qt has pretty thoroughly integrated support for Wayland via QtWayland [qt-project.org], which lets you write your own Wayland compositor using the QtCompositor class.

          Architectures like Wayland directly benefit toolkits like Qt because it directly services what Qt was doing already: rendering in a buffer and displaying it.

          • by dbIII (701233)

            Err, I don't know why you put it in such thin terms.

            Because there is still some way to go before there is a fully functional Wayland environment.
            I tried to go for maximum bland to avoid pissing off the thin skinned but it appears that even faint praise is taken as some sort of attack. Am I supposed to wave my arms and shout "X sux - go Wayland!" like the mindless fanboys?

            • by Microlith (54737)

              Because there is still some way to go before there is a fully functional Wayland environment.

              There's already fully functional Wayland environments, it's shipping on at least one vehicle IVI system and Jolla's handset. What's missing is distro adoption, but even that's inevitable. Far from the "hope" that toolkits will take up the slack -- they already have.

              it appears that even faint praise is taken as some sort of attack.

              Are you so sensitive that you take simple replies as attacks?

              • by dbIII (701233)
                You are the one with the "thin terms" when I was just stating it simply. Don't try and throw it back on me that I'm not cheering for your obsession.
                Links please for that shipping system. I find it difficult to believe that there has been that much progress in a couple of months and annoying fanboys have been caught out with lies about Wayland here before, so I can't take you at your word until I know you are more than that.
                • by raxx7 (205260)

                  http://jolla.com/

                  It's been shipping since the December 2013, using Wayland and Qt5. No X compatibility layer on this device.

                  • You've got to be joking - a domain instead of the actual information?
                    • by raxx7 (205260)

                      You asked links for a shipping system.
                      That link has a "BUY" button.

                    • by dbIII (701233)
                      All right, I'll go hunting myself to see if it's an actual implemention instead of just hooks for later Wayland support- because after your "Kieth Packard wrote bits of Wayland in 2004" thing your word is not worth shit.
                    • by dbIII (701233)
                      No mention of Wayland on that site. The sailfish site + wikipedia for Sailfish only has a bit about experiments with future Wayland support.

                      Having fun making me run around you horrible little troll? Why the fuck are Wayland fanboys such pieces of shit? Why can't they let the project stand on it's own merit and no resort to silly little tricks to advocate it.

                      I'm giving the actual developers the benefit of the doubt but what IS it with your people?
        • by raxx7 (205260)

          No, you are misleading.

          If you take a look at Wayland source code, you'll see stuff like Copyright © 1988-2004 Keith Packard and Bart Massey. quite often.
          https://gitorious.org/wayland/wayland/source/0b29a2fec7801d2530bd004ae68eb9242417bafd:wayland/wayland-hash.c#L2-3

          As for pushing back work to the toolkit developers, the Qt developers made the software (client side) backend the default back in Qt 4.4, because it was so much faster than the XRender based one for local clients.
          And for Qt5, they simply did

          • How low can you get.
            If you are going to lie then try something a bit less obvious.

            How the hell did this Wayland project turn into such a ball of hate against X where people decided that any dirty trick in advocacy goes?
      • Faster than you think. This year, GNOME will already be fully on Wayland. I suspect Arch will all in on Wayland. Fedora and opensuse will probably wait an extra 6 months but then jump all in. The tizen platform is already going on wayland. No, man.. X is going to be a goner in two years.
        • by Uecker (1842596)

          X will certainly not be gone. Maybe there will be a schism in the Linux community. This might actually not be bad thing. The freedesktop crowd who break my desktop (or some applications) basically every year (I think this started in 2008 or so) can go on with their misguided attempts to redesign everything over and over again in different ways. And people who want a UNIX-like system with backwards compatibility, stability, configurability, and powerful features could have there own distribution.... This wou

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by SEE (7681)

      Wayland's an effort to stuff a pointless layer of abstraction underneath X on Linux in order to make performance worse and debugging more difficult.

      (Yes, yes, they say it's an effort to replace X. But look at how they're doing the compatibility with X - running a full X server on Wayland in order to run X apps. Then look at how much effort they've put into making Wayland portable to other varieties of *nix.)

      • by dbIII (701233)

        Then look at how much effort they've put into making Wayland portable to other varieties of *nix

        There's some hope there. Initially by design it wouldn't work on anything other than linux but the IMHO braindead choices of depending on linux only features were changed.

      • by thegarbz (1787294)

        (Yes, yes, they say it's an effort to replace X. But look at how they're doing the compatibility with X - running a full X server on Wayland in order to run X apps. Then look at how much effort they've put into making Wayland portable to other varieties of *nix.)

        Yeah I know. Damn that world that won't make a wholesale switch of an entire protocol at the drop of a dime. I was like you suggesting that the entire world should switch to IPv6 overnight and just throw all the IPv4 stuff in the bin. Who needs transitioning periods, or compatibility layers. This is survival of the fittest we're talking about here.

        *faceplam*

      • You won't need X if you use QT or GTK3. The compositor, toolkit, and window manager are all merged into one. The X that is running is just for legacy. But if you're using GNOME 3.12 with GTK3 apps or even GNOME 3.10, you can use wayland transparently.
        • by SEE (7681)

          You won't need X if you use QT or GTK3

          Yes, I know. Reminds me of Micrografx Mirrors and WLO.

        • by dbIII (701233)

          The compositor, toolkit, and window manager are all merged into one

          And for some reason, just like with Motif, they think doing that is a better idea than something flexible.

  • I don't know if y'all know this, but there is only one clipboard in Wayland. You're going to have to get used to having both middle click and ctrl-v pointing to the same thing.

If you're not careful, you're going to catch something.

Working...