Facebook Debuts New Gender Options, Pronoun Choices 462
beaverdownunder writes "Facebook has recognized it's a gender-diverse world — at least in the U.S. In addition to Male or Female, Facebook now lets U.S. users choose among some 50 additional options such as 'transgender,' 'cisgender,' 'gender fluid,' 'intersex' and 'neither.' 'Users also now have the ability to choose the pronoun they would like to be referred to publicly: he/his, she/her, or the gender-neutral they/their.' A post on Facebook's Diversity page said, 'When you come to Facebook to connect with the people, causes, and organizations you care about, we want you to feel comfortable being your true, authentic self. An important part of this is the expression of gender, especially when it extends beyond the definitions of just "male" or "female." ...We also have added the ability for people to control the audience with whom they want to share their custom gender. We recognize that some people face challenges sharing their true gender identity with others, and this setting gives people the ability to express themselves in an authentic way.'"
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know, but it seems important enough to some people to make the distinction, and it's reasonably easy to accommodate them if they ask, so why not just roll with it?
Re:What's the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Super gender queer (Score:4, Insightful)
You forgot about bestiality, at least in certain parts of the South.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the thing that allows language to be a communicative tool is that words have the same meaning for almost everyone. Rather than providing clarification, this glut of undefined terms destroy the ability of language to convey meaning.
Sounds like a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
There will always be someone claiming to not fit into any of the classifications you supply, and now they can claim you are specifically hurting them.
These new genders are for hipsters, as soon as they become mainstream they will switch to something new and yell foul that you are not accommodating them.
Re:Gender neutral? (Score:5, Insightful)
"It" is used exclusively to refer to nonhuman objects, and has a long history in writing as a way of emphasising that something ostensibly or previously human is not. If you can't see the reason for offense, you either don't read much or don't encounter human beings very often.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Instead of 50, why not none, or 1 billion? (Score:5, Insightful)
To be blunt, they can't perform demographic analysis for advertising on the basis of a free text field.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or how about:
3. The rest of us really don't want to know any details about your reproductive anatomy.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone wants to be a god damned special snowflake. All these retard labels are, 95% of the time, just there to grab attention for the person using them.
I'd hardly disagree with the assertion that the demand for specialness far outstrips the supply, especially in people most vocal about it; but (given how joyful being sexually abnormal is in most social contexts) are you seriously suggesting that people are voluntarily choosing to put up with that, rather than just listening to shitty music or attempting to achieve individuality through mass-produced consumer goods?
People have a great many vices; but deliberately choosing the harder, much less pleasant, option instead of the easier one typically isn't one of them. Are you seriously postulating a population so stupid, or so bereft of other 'specialness' emulation capabilities, that they'd choose to pretend to be some wildly unpopular flavor of sexually abnormal? It just seems like you'd have to be really hard up for attention-seeking behavior to do that...
Re:What's the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
Thanks. A quick scout around reveals some wildly different numbers for incidence - A study by Thyen U et al in Germany found 1 in 5,000; the Intersex Socity of North America cites a study that found 1 in 100; Hughes IA, Houk C, Ahmed SF, et al give 1 in 4,500; Hamerton JL, et al give 1 in 4,200. Given that often parents decide what gender to bring a child up as and then have surgery to remold genitalia to that shape in the first few months of life, I wonder how many people don't even know that they were born with ambiguous genitalia?
Re:Super gender queer (Score:2, Insightful)
That's because it's possibly the only relationship type that could actually be bad for society in an objective, measurable way. Monogamous marriage conveniently gives us guys a stable supply of women by preventing wealthy men from keeping harems (the best they can do is cheat rampantly). Otherwise you'd have a lot of pissed-off guys who don't value their lives too much. See: Middle east, right now; Dudes blowing themselves up for afterlife virgins.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:0, Insightful)
I miss the most important choice in that list (Score:5, Insightful)
"Not your fucking business"
Re:Gender neutral? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're seriously claiming that the ability of a group of people to determine how they prefer to be referred to is Orwellian? Do you even know what "Orwellian" means? I mean, do you even know the plot outline of 1984?
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a friend that is a true chimera [wikipedia.org]. She has about 50% male cells and 50% female cells, and that included the cells that developed into genitalia and gonads. She has one ovary and one testicle, and a mix of hormones that wreak havoc on her.
At birth, the doctors assigned a male gender on paper, expecting that the female parts would be easier to remove later, but that hasn't been the case. At puberty her hormones changed more toward female, making a male gender probably lethal. She now considers herself female, and is just waiting to have a bit of invasive surgery.
That's about the most extreme form of ambiguous genitalia you can have, having developed from an ambiguous genome. Like most extremes, it's exceptionally rare, with only a few dozen people currently living. Less-extreme examples however, like 90%/10% splits, are relatively common, with a few hundred thousand such people worldwide. Some of those present visible symptoms, and some do not. Of course, that's only genetics. What someone associates as is another complicated issue.
As a society, we like to classify things in easy categories, like "male" or "female", but reality rarely supports such a clear distinction.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that some people don't feel that their gender matches their biology, and never have. To them, the plumbing has no relation to their identify as they experience it.
And then it becomes much more complicated.
Re:I miss the most important choice in that list (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's the difference? (Score:1, Insightful)
Nothing. They all have mental disorders relating to self image, usually due to being molested as a kid. Oops, did I just drop a big bag of reality on the discussion?
This. I'll never understand why when someone "thinks they're the opposite gender" we don't try and fix their mind to match their body but instead are willing to send them through some incredibly dangerous and life-shortening medical procedures to do the exact opposite.
No. If you have a dick, you're a man. If you "think you're a woman" something is wrong with you and we should try and fix whatever's broken in your head, not cut off your penis and make you "look like you feel."
Yes, yes, there are legitimate cases where the above doesn't quite work (intersexed people) and those are worth mentioning, but for the overwhelming majority of "trans" people, they're just mentally ill people that for some dumbass reason we're supposed to coddle rather than help be at home in their body.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, everybody. Self-classification is gross, because misexistentialist says so.
In the interest of public decency, you are now "poor" if you're unable to afford food or clothing, and everyone else is "rich". There is to be no further differentiation, so we can forget all of that "middle class" nonsense.
It you were born within the bounds of the United States of America, you are an American. Everyone else is a foreigner, regardless of immigration, heritage, or temporary circumstances.
Whenever the ambient temperature is above 32 degrees Fahrenheit, it is "warm", and for the sake of avoiding disgusting differentiation, everyone must wear their state-issued "warm" clothes. At 32 degrees Fahrenheit and below, it is "cold", and we all must wear the appropriate "cold" clothing.
Of course, not everyone will want to follow these new rules, but we have a suitable and tasteful classification for that as well. Those who conform will be considered "comrades", and those who violate these basic rules for a civil society will be deemed "unpersons" and will no longer be welcome here.
Re:What's the difference? (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop whining and just live the life you were given.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
--George Bernard Shaw
Re:What's the difference? (Score:0, Insightful)
For some people, gender identity is a little more complicated than "penis or no penis"
Yes, for the intersexed people you were just talking about. But for those with a clear penis or vagina, it really, really isn't. You were born with a penis? You're male! Born with a vagina? You're female! Neither applies? Then we can talk about intersexed, but the first two categories covers at least 99% of the population according to your own link, and probably more depending on how you define "intersexed."
Trust me, nobody would go through all of that stuff (the reaction of people, the hormones, the discrimination, the cost, the upheaval to your life, the surgeries, people telling you you're going through a phase) unless they were REALLY certain that was what they needed.
Right, because people don't make poor life-altering decisions all the time. There are people who "feel" that they're "really" amputees. There are people out there who commit suicide. Saying "they'd only go through that if they're sure" is kind of a dumb argument.
And it still doesn't cover "should they be allowed to go through it at all, or should medical science try and convince people to live in the body they were born in rather than sending them through radical life-altering non-essential treatments for a simple mental disorder?"
Re: What's the difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
In most cases, I really don't care about your gender. If I bother to look it up or ask, though, I damned well want an answer like "male", "female", "indeterminate", or "undisclosed". And if I bother to inquire about it, I want your answer of "male" to mean the genotype XY, not "it's complicated but I tend to wear men's clothing and take top during sex". In that case, just go with "undisclosed".
And yes, before some pedant chimes in, I know the difference between genotype and social gender identity - I just don't care if your self-image involves referring to yourself as a translucent cloud of neon green glitter.