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Ubuntu 14.04 Brings Back Menus In Application Windows

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  • by Animats (122034) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:46PM (#46301035) Homepage

    I can live with them or without them, but they need to pick one way to do it and stick with that.

  • by manu0601 (2221348) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:48PM (#46301049)
    A good property of UI is to remain stable so that user can get used to it. It would be nice if they could stop changing stuff on every release.
  • by jedidiah (1196) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @09:50PM (#46301067) Homepage

    Linux users like what they want. That might not conform to whatever your personal preferences are or what's trendy. That doesn't make Linux users "luddites". It makes them something other than mindless drones.

    Beyond that, going out of your way to try and copy that other marginal player in the industry us just retarded. You will pretty much ensure that less saavy users are alienated by something that seeks to be annoyingly different for it's own sake.

    You think Linux users are luddites? We're not even close to that compared to the bulk of the potential users out there.

  • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @10:10PM (#46301177) Journal

    Is there any compelling reason for them to "stick" with something? Having the choice is a positive good. Unity's lack of options is what drove me away from it.

    Muscle memory. There is nothing more significant to a good user interface than being friendly to developing muscle memory. Everything else is secondary. Once you develop muscle memory, you don't care much what it looks like because you don't look at it. If you can't develop muscle memory, you won't ever enjoy using the device.

    That's why the many devices that are pure touch screen driven suck. They demand your constant attention like a mewling infant. The push to add hot spots and gestures and voice to all these touch screen devices is driven by this truth.

  • by epyT-R (613989) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @10:25PM (#46301263)

    Yes, because anyone who questions your viewpoint and politics is obviously an ignorant luddite. ..and liberals wonder why others perceive them as arrogant, totalitarian, histrionic, narcissists. Tolerance and diversity only applies to their own viewpoints and protected castes, I guess.

    Global menus work ok for small desktops (1024x768 tops), but with huge desktops that have multiple windows side by side, having to select the window and move the mouse to the top of the screen to use the menu for it is a pain.

    Intelligent users like configurations that work for their workflows. When they are obviously changed out just for change's sake, they become irritated. This applies to any platform. Change for change's sake has become a fad in the last 5-6 years, and it's driving people nuts.

  • It still has Unity (Score:5, Insightful)

    by koan (80826) on Thursday February 20, 2014 @10:39PM (#46301325)

    So the rest of the menu complaints are irrelevant.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 20, 2014 @11:02PM (#46301397)

    I don't think users have a problem with innovation or new things... they have a problem with being bound with an interface NOT DESIGNED FOR DESKTOP COMPUTERS.

    Unity = Metro = Crap (on desktop)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 20, 2014 @11:45PM (#46301549)

    Why Apple has made the perfect UI, how could you not love the best design for DJs and Photoshoppers? There are about 10 things wrong with OSX and they are all random design crap Jobs picked -
    Global menus,
    Single mouse click,
    Left window controls (yay for all the left handed and left eye dominant people, boo for the other 95% of the world)
    Launchpad (how is the start menu missing causing a revolt and launchpad even exist? Launchpad is the initial SIN!)
    Finder layout straight out of system commander circa 1988.
    Crap loads of docked icons you never use be default.
    A separate contact and calendar app....
    General iOS crap
    Hardwired application dependency locations (the whole point of application folders is to stop that!)
    Scroll bars that disappear even if your mouse is near them and appear at the bottoms of pages OVERTOP content.
    I could go on and complain about the apps, but lets say OSX is great for people who use a computer like they use iOS and leave it at that....

  • by organgtool (966989) on Friday February 21, 2014 @12:26AM (#46301693)
    And yet it is a terrible violation of Fitt's Law, especially on large high-res monitors and multi-monitor setups. Not to mention that accessing the menu of a non-focused app requires dragging the mouse over to that window or dock icon to click for focus and then dragging the mouse all the way up to the menu bar and then back down to the window to resume work. I should install a mouse-odometer app on my Mac and my Linux box just to see how much extra movement Mac OS requires. After years of working with all three major OSes, Mac OS has quickly become one of my least favorite.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 21, 2014 @01:18AM (#46301841)

    Maybe I should have just said people that are resistant to change.

    The is nothing wrong with resisting pointless change. I used Unity and didn't like it. Not because it was different, but because it wasn't an improvement.

  • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tlhIngan (30335) < minus city> on Friday February 21, 2014 @02:34AM (#46302013)

    Instead, they poorly copied Microsoft's actions with Windows 8 and Metro, which was itself a poorly done copy of iOS's interface, with the added insult of requiring gestures even on a mouse-based machine! Apple themselves then made a shit-poor decision to change the UI for iOS 7. Unity fell somewhere in the middle of this mess, believing that "change is good because Apple and Microsoft were doing it." So they violated the OCP, and pissed off as many users as they could. That's even a bigger mistake for them, because Unity users are far less locked into the choice of Canonical than a Microsoft or Apple user.

    Actually, Apple is the latecomer to this - iOS 7 came out in 2013. Metro and Unity showed up in 2012.

    Apple changed because a growing number of people were complaining that the iOS UI started looked "dated" and "static" because it hasn't changed as wildly as Android or as "fresh" as Metro on Windows Phone. Ditto OS X - people were complaining it looks very similar to the way it looked over a decade earlier.

    Of course, I hate the new "flatness" that seems to be the trendy thing 0 I like my faux 3D with shading and depth and texture. I admit, iOS perhaps went a bit too overboard with stitched leather and green felt, but I liked the icons and all that.

    But I guess that's the breaks. Be like Apple and try to keep things practically the same and after a little while you get accused of ossifying the UI and it looks old, dated, not trendy and ugly. Be like Microsoft and offer fresh and shiny every couple of years and you look cool. Except well, it seems to have come at the cost of functionality.

    And then there's Linux where everyone wants to do everything and you end up with hideousness that is Unity.

    Don't change the UI and you get accused of ossifying. Change the UI and everyone hates it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 21, 2014 @03:31AM (#46302167)

    why do you think Unity was not designed for desktop computers? been using it on one for almost 2 yrs...

    Because the optimal UI for desktop computers was a solved problem five years ago.

    Because UX people need to put "mobile" on their CVs and resumes in order to get hired anywhere.

    Because I'm sick of being the guinea pig for some UX weenie who only cares about his next paid gig.

  • by gbjbaanb (229885) on Friday February 21, 2014 @04:32AM (#46302323)


    Thats why I like that windows 8.1 got rid of all that glass crap everywhere and i dont really touch any metro stuff since none of the applications i use have metro versions

    so you love they got rid of that glass crap (on the desktop I assume you mean) and then you only use the desktop.

    You must be a designer - every new interface is so cool, and clean, and elegant, with its fresh lines and clean interface.... as long as you don't have to the use the horrific stuff.

  • by thegarbz (1787294) on Friday February 21, 2014 @05:50AM (#46302563)

    I agreed with all of that except your comment on the scroll bars.

    Scroll bars are NOT needless clutter. They are a visual cue on the amount of content on the screen vs the amount of content that you can't see. Right now with a quick glance I can see I'm only half way through reading the comments. I can't do that if the bar is hidden, and I'd need to do something like move the page.

    I hate this on touchscreens as well but it's more forgiveable since any finger touching the screen will make the bars reappear. I can't do that while I'm typing on a keyboard.

  • by cyber-vandal (148830) on Friday February 21, 2014 @06:23AM (#46302683) Homepage

    I'm still using a physical keyboard because it's better than a touch keyboard. The Windows 8 interface was an unnecessary and inconvenient change and yes I know you can do X, Y and Z to make it less annoying but then what was the point of the change? It hasn't improved anyone's experience and just puts extra, undocumented steps in that confuse everyone, even the techies. That goes double for Server 2012 where Metro is a completely unnecessary nuisance.

  • by (595837) <> on Friday February 21, 2014 @07:03AM (#46302801) Journal

    Global menus

    Mac OS has been like this since System 1. And it makes sense; whatever you're doing, its menu is going to be in the same place. Fitts' law indicates that the most quickly accessed targets on any computer display are the four corners of the screen [].

    I've read the question 5 [] and its answers about global menu superiority.

    I would like to emphasize this:
    - I've been using Macintosh, Unix workstations, MS PC (DOS,Win3.1 up to Win8), Linux PC with various WM/Desktop, etc.
    - Global menu was fine for me on Macintosh Classic 9-inch display, for any task.
    - Global menu is painful and irritating on 24-inch display, for most of the creative tasks.

    I suspect that this is not only a matter of how long the cursor travel though the screen, but also about how much you have to adjust your gaze on the area requiring your attention.

    Fitts' law fails to address that point, even if you can do things quicker it might not be as productive if it's uncomfortable and tiring.

    Regarding GUI, Apple has failed on several points with nowdays huge displays, for instance it tooks them years to allow window size adjustment on any border (instead of a tiny triangle on bottom right). The feature comes with Lion in 2011... That's a shame.

  • by ifiwereasculptor (1870574) on Friday February 21, 2014 @09:22AM (#46303217)

    Sometimes I think some linux users are a bunch of luddites with strong right wing conservative leanings

    and liberals wonder why others perceive them as arrogant, totalitarian, histrionic, narcissists

    How the fuck can people take a discussion about a UI element to fucking politics? It's not even a good political discussion, it the same stereotyped shit we read about everyday, where there are only two fucking views on each subject and they are both ludicrously inflexible. I thought for certain no one would fall for the obvious, weak flamebait of the first post, but lo and behold, the discussion has degenerated into things like

    Of course, that's why you elect politicians who'd love to stamp out free speech, right? To make it my problem, and make up for the fact your arguments are without merit?

    Come on, tell me the truth: you guys disliked the new design and are poisoning the content, too, so as to encourage our transition to a better place, right? Because no one can be that unproductively disruptive unless on purpose.

Truly simple systems... require infinite testing. -- Norman Augustine