Anonymous's Latest Target: Boston Children's Hospital 329
Brandon Butler writes: "Supporters of the faceless collective known as Anonymous have taken up the cause of a young girl, after the State of Massachusetts removed her from her parents earlier this year. However, the methods used to show support may have unintended consequences, which could impact patient care. On Thursday, the Boston Children's Hospital confirmed that they were subjected to multiple DDoS attacks over the Easter holiday. Said attacks, which have continued throughout the week, aim to take the hospital's website offline. Similar attacks, including website defacement, have also targeted the Wayside Youth and Family Support Network. Both organizations are at the heart of a sensitive topic, child welfare and the rights of a parent."
Members of Anonymous are now calling for a halt to the attacks.
faceless collective? (Score:2)
Hardly.. [nytimes.com]
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That is not dead which can eternal lie
Yet with stranger eons, even death may die
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Is "Reichstag-ing" an actual thing? I'm confused as to how the Nazi leadership burning down the national legislature's building works in this analogy...as they were political opponents, not really a gathering of "Untermensch." Although I'm sure the standard "the Jews are secretly in charge of everything" bit was in play.
If you're going to Godwin the conversation, at least use the right terminology, eh?
That is why social Hacking is Bad MmmKaa. (Score:5, Insightful)
I've worked in healthcare.
The company I worked for had their services hosted for at a data center. That Data Center also hosted some Banks.
Groups like anonymous think they are performing some social disobedience by DDoS the banks, Also DDoS the actual Data center. While it took a few minutes for the network to switch over there were a few hundred doctors who couldn't access their software, for that time.
XKCD described these attacks like vandalizing a bill board. But it is more like vandalizing a bill board by shooting a gun at it, and not knowing who or what is behind it.
which could impact patient care (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, it could.
1. Most hospitals are operating at a loss, thus do not have money to maintain a strong infrastructure. Meaning that website could be on the same pipe as the rest of the organization.
2. The web sites now offer more services to patients and other providers. Such as logging in and able to send their Medical Records, Book and Appointment, or securely send a message to your doctor.
3. If you kill the Router (That devices that will need to direct you to the website) as the device wouldn't expect th
Re:which could impact patient care (Score:5, Informative)
1. Children's hospitals receive donations and nail research grants with an alarming deftness. Boston Children's Hospital is, according to their own architecture, the best [trimedmedia.com]. There's no shortage of money. They did have some layoffs a couple of years ago [wbur.org], but with a ridiculous savings ratio (255 jobs, costing 89.5 million annually, constituting somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3% of their budget.)
2. Their primary website is located at 134.174.13.251 (childrenshospital.org). Patient info retrieval is hosted on 134.174.13.5 (apps.childrenshospital.org). There is a booking form located on the main site, but at any rate it's working just fine now.
Re:which could impact patient care (Score:4, Informative)
1. Children's hospitals receive donations and nail research grants with an alarming deftness. Boston Children's Hospital is, according to their own architecture, the best [trimedmedia.com]. There's no shortage of money. They did have some layoffs a couple of years ago [wbur.org], but with a ridiculous savings ratio (255 jobs, costing 89.5 million annually, constituting somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3% of their budget.)
Having income is not the same thing as having money. Hospitals and medical care is expensive, especially in the US. It looks like that job cut was due to a $150 million budget shortfall.
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In short you do not know how things are connected, and could be combined with other things that you don't expect.
I don't know how things are connected, but I do know how things should be connected. That is, for any such organization, their public website should be hosted remotely on a hosting provider somewhere. It shouldn't be a door directly into the hospital. the patient records, drug delivery control software, or even the computerized toilets. Hosting the website locally is a big red lag that someo
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Yes, it could.
1. Most hospitals are operating at a loss, thus do not have money to maintain a strong infrastructure. Meaning that website could be on the same pipe as the rest of the organization.
One would think that HIPAA would nix that idea. I could be wrong, but patient records on the same direct wiring as the public Internet? I'd not only fire the architect, I'd have the SOB castrated to insure that his stupidity didn't pass on to any future progeny. It ain't that expensive to buy a decent pair of firewalls and segment things out.
2. The web sites now offer more services to patients and other providers. Such as logging in and able to send their Medical Records, Book and Appointment, or securely send a message to your doctor.
So do banking sites (money transfers, billpay, etc), which often run even leaner than hospitals (at least the smaller banks and credit unions do) - they also know enoug
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Then they should not be running internet facing machines if they cant afford robust hosting and compatmentalization. This is like saying 'well we cant afford elevators so we will jsut use the stairs for everything.' If you have IT infrastructure, its costs BUCKETS of money to run it, if you cant afford that then you have no
Most businesses (Score:2)
Are operating at a loss....but that's largely because of accounting, and paying execs millions of dollars.
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Unfortunately, non-profit hospitals are, in many cases, a sham. Yes, the "hospital" is losing money, while all the doctors working there are pulling in substantial incomes at the same time.
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Unfortunately, non-profit hospitals are, in many cases, a sham. Yes, the "hospital" is losing money, while all the doctors working there are pulling in substantial incomes at the same time.
Are you suggesting that those doctors, nurses, technicians should all work for free?
Regardless, what the physicians make has little to do with how the hospital fares. In the US, hospitals rarely employ physicians. Hospitals are just one of the places where doctors go to take care of patients. There's usually little financial linkage between the two.
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Glassdoor suggests that the doctors working there aren't making all that much money, and a quick google around suggests that the top administrator is not all that well-paid in terms of the hospital's gross income.
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If I'm in a hospital or doctors office and the quality of my care is dependent on the stability of their network, there's definitely something very wrong.
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The both your organization and the banks fucked up. You shouldn't have outsourced something so critical to your business if thats the case.
You most certainly don't connect devices and networks for medical devices to a public network, if you did, you shouldn't be fired, you should be fired at with a large caliber weapon for not knowing what the fuck you were doing. YOU put peoples lives at risk.
What the hell is wrong with you that you have software that has to be used offsite for medical purposes?
Note: I'v
Well... (Score:2)
Since the elective representative process is broken. Would you prefer they used guns instead to enact change?
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Sometimes people trip and fall down stairs. Sometimes assholes push people down stairs. That doesn't mean "stairs are bad" nor does it make someone who pushes someone down the stairs any less of an asshole.
Re:That is why social Hacking is Bad MmmKaa. (Score:4, Insightful)
So like when a woman is drunk and she gets raped, it's her fault. Gotcha.
You "Don't blame the victim!" people are completely mindless. Do you know what "false dichotomy" means? It is possible for multiple parties to be at fault. It is possible that the victim is an idiot for putting themselves in a situation that a reasonable person would know not to put themselves into. This doesn't really apply in a situation where you're going about your business and someone decides to rape you, but it does in a situation where you choose to use technology you know is insecure, something that puts other people *at risk* no matter how much you whine and cry about how evil other people are.
And have you ever heard of "negligence," or anything remotely similar to it? Jesus. Get a fucking brain, and drop the "stop blaming the victim" bullshit; it's old and tired, and you have no idea how to use it.
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So like when a woman is drunk and she gets raped, it's her fault. Gotcha.
Your analogy isn't perfectly correct: It's more like 'If some woman walks into the bad part of town and gets drunk, then proceeds to wander through the streets wearing only a negligee and waving around a bag of condoms while screaming "somebody fuck me!", then she bears some of the liability.
Before you react - allow me to clarify what GP did not: She gets none of the legal blame (and should never bear any), but reality dictates that you don't go wandering into a pit of starving bears wearing only a loinclot
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In addition to considering the risks, consider the limitations and the probabilities. If Boston Children's Hospital had an unlimited IT budget, they could buy the best hardware and security staff money could buy. Similarly, if they were a front for an organized crime operation, they'd want full control over their IT because it's likely they'd be attacked (by law enforcement.) Finally, if this was Kabul Children's Hospital in Afghanistan, they'd want to spend more on security (both physical and virtual) due
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"But I suspect BCH doesn't have a security staff armed with machine guns"
You never know. As soon as the Peltiers tried to take their daughter home, men with guns showed up pretty fast.
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If you're intentionally walking in a bad part of town, alone and drunk in the middle of the night, yes.
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So then you're agreeing if I leave my door unlocked at night and someone comes in and steals something, it's my fault because the asshat thought it was okay to steal?
Shall we take that twisted logic to the next phase and say if you get shot it's partly your fault because you weren't wearing a bullet-resistant vest? After all, you knowingly wore something which wasn't secure (your shirt/jacket) so obviously it's partly your fault for getting shot.
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So then you're agreeing if I leave my door unlocked at night and someone comes in and steals something, it's my fault because the asshat thought it was okay to steal?
Whereas you are right to a certain extent, there are cases that victims can be partially to blame. In New York State, you can be ticketed for leaving an unattended car running. There have been cases of people reporting their car stolen, and getting ticketed when the police show up.
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Nobody NEEDS to be pushed down stairs.
They should be shoved.
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So you are expecting every small company to afford a large network infrastructure. A lot of the services you enjoy a rather a cheap price, is due to these data centers.
The customers who were not hosted didn't go down... However because they ran the software on a PC under the desk, they had 2x the total outages and often lasted for hours, due to poor infrastructure.
I do blame the "hackers", as they were the ones who went on purpose to damage a computer network. They said to themselves "Self, I am going to
Re:That is why social Hacking is Bad MmmKaa. (Score:4, Informative)
Not at all - I do expect the large network infrastructure providers to be able to harden themselves against such attacks, especially given their clients.
Like I said - at least it had a switch-over, so although doctors could not access things for 'minutes' (how many are we talking about anyway?), they should have been mostly unaffected.
That said - some absolutely critical things should not be placed under the total care of service providers. Would you do away with your HDD/SSD and rely entirely on cloud storage?
Re:That is why social Hacking is Bad MmmKaa. (Score:5, Insightful)
No. But I do expect companies that require their hosted services in order to function have backup plans should the service go down.
If in this case of the original comment about several hundred doctors not being able to access their information when the banks were under attack...several hundred doctors isn't a small company. That's a large medical organization. Or if whoever was running the service was treating it like an overloaded shared server then they get what they pay for.
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Small companies like banks and hospitals..... sure.
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Blame the victim is popular on Slashdot.
You know what else is popular? Playing the "You're blaming the victim!" card, and doing it in a way that's utterly absurd. I know you can't fathom how it's possible that *multiple people* can be at fault for something, or that you could say that the victim should have taken reasonable measures to prevent the Bad Thing from happening (In situations where this is reasonable and possible, of course.) without saying that the attacker is blameless or deserves no punishment, but it is possible.
Funnily enough, he
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Now, now, it's quite literally blaming the victim of the crime for the crime. That's what's going on here.
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Slashdot is, unfortunately, a hotbed of educated people with little common sense.
As a side note, a DDOS attack is the lamest form of protest I can imagine.
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I hate "common sense." Detest the phrase, detest the use of it as a justification for anything, detest the people that embrace it. No, the people who are douchebags on slashdot are engaged in good old fashioned is/should fallacy, a world-wide human favorite.
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You're working on the assumption that blaming the victim is always unjustified. We seem to suffer a lot from "that's a fallacy! BOOM--conversation over, you lost, instant Godwin!" around here instead of actually listening to the argument for five fucking seconds.
Knee-jerk pop psychology. Crack out the book of fallacies--there's one in here for everything! :D
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if BCH did not kidnap children (Justina), then Anonymous would have no reason to go after them.
It is not anyone from Anonymous' place to judge that there was a kidnapping.
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I'm pretty sure Occupy Wall Street managed to increase exposure of a problem without burning down some buildings too. Attacking infrastructure to draw attention to your cause does nothing but cement your status as a criminal and harm sympathy for your cause.
Impacting patient care? (Score:2)
Unbelievable and disgusting abuse of state power (Score:3, Informative)
I heard about it on the radio a couple of weeks ago. This case is an absolutely appalling abuse of power.
Advocates Fight for Justina Pelletier, Teen Held by State in Psych Ward [go.com]
One day Justina Pelletier was a seemingly healthy teenager performing jumps and spirals at a skating show and six weeks later, on Feb. 10, 2013, she was in the emergency room at Children's Hospital in Boston after a severe bout with the flu, refusing to eat and barely able to walk.
Her parents, Lou and Linda Pelletier of West Hartford, Conn., say their daughter was diagnosed and being treated at Tufts Medical Center for mitochondrial disease, a rare genetic disorder with physical symptoms that can affect every part of the body. Justina's sister Jessica, 25, is also being treated for the disease.
But three days later, a team of doctors at Boston Children's said her symptoms were psychosomatic, according to the family. The hospital then filed a complaint with the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families, as required by law, because they suspected the parents of child abuse for subjecting their daughter to invasive medical treatments and denying her mental health therapy. ... more [go.com]
Pelletier Family Files Habeas Corpus Pleading, Points Out Disturbing Facts About Boston Children’s Hospital [michaelgraham.com]
... Among other things, the Petition also argues that the requirement to issue detailed written findings of fact and conclusions of law justifying DCF’s intervention has never been met. Never has the juvenile court issued such required findings of fact or conclusions of law.
“This case comes down to the simple fact that new doctors at Boston Children’s Hospital (BCH), who had no experience with Justina, came up with a different diagnosis than her expert treating physicians at Tufts Medical Center,” said Staver. “The state cannot take children from their parents when the parents make reasonable choices for their medical care. This case is outrageous,” said Staver. .... Justina has gone from a competitive figure skater to being confined to a wheelchair,” said Staver.
Fourteen months ago, Justina, now fifteen years old, was seized by Massachusetts DCF after her parents, at the direction of Dr. Mark Korson, took her to Boston Children’s Hospital to see Dr. Alejandro Flores, a gastroenterologist who had previously treated Justina when he worked at Tufts Medical Center before he transferred to BCH. Dr. Korson, Chief of Metabolic Services at Tufts Medical Center, was Justina’s primary physician who was treating her for Mitochondrial disease. Instead of allowing Justina to see Dr. Flores, Justina saw Dr. Jurriaan Peters, a BCH resident only seven months out of medical school. He brought in Dr. Simona Bujoreanu, a psychologist who coauthored an article in which she contends that in up to 50% of children who present with physical complaints, the complaints are not physical but mental. Without consulting with Dr. Korson or Flores, Dr. Bujoreanu rendered a diagnosis of Somatoform disorder. Without a thorough review of her care, she opined that Justina’s physical complaints were mental, not physical. BCH then presented the family with a new treatment plan to discontinue all medical care and medications and which forbade any second opinions. When the parents refused to sign the new treatment plan and requested that Justina be discharged so they could take her back to Tufts Medical Center, BCH called DCF, and DCF prevented the family from discharging Justina
Another possibility you haven't thought of (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone agrees that there is something wrong with the child.
The problem is that the parents are fixated on a specific disease which clinical tests do not support. So instead of trying to find out what's really wrong with her, the parents went looking for another doctor who would give them the diagnosis they want [clevelandclinic.org]. Think about that.
And some possibilites you may not have thought of (Score:3)
Its great you have a theory, but two sisters having the same genetic disease wouldn't be shocking. If you read the ABC news story above you'll see that there is meaningful medical history there that can't be faked. You're assuming that the chief of metabolism at Tufts medical center is wrong, and that Boston Children's diagnosis, for which there is no diagnostic test, is right. And then there is the fact that Boston Children's apparently has a history of these sort of "contentious" actions as noted in t
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Parents knew something was wrong with their child. They found a doctor who understood the disease.
No one disputes that something is wrong. The parents were insisting that she had mitochondrial disease and when one doctor didn't agree they went to another, and another, until they found one who would treat mitrochondrial disease.
Oh, and you know what...one of the things the parents were accused of? and was used to justify the custody claim?
Her mother expressed that she needed a feeding tube.
Her mother insisted on all kinds of treatments. She was caught at the hospital with a handful of hypodermic needles.
Re:Unbelievable and disgusting abuse of state powe (Score:4, Informative)
I heard about it on the radio a couple of weeks ago. This case is an absolutely appalling abuse of power.
I did some Googling on this case in since I hadn't yet heard about it. Found this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/... [slate.com]
If it's true that the parents shopped around for doctors to perform surgeries, and had extreme surgeries carried out around mitochondrial disease with no diagnostic based diagnosis that raises a ton of red flags.
If you're going to make your kid get a stomach shunt, you'd at least want to run a few tests first, no? It seems reasonable that the doctors would want to separate the child from her parents if they thought they were unreasonably subjecting their daughter to medical procedures. Worst case: Childrens runs the diagnostics that should have been run in the first place, finds evidence of mitochondrial disease, gives the child back, and there is no harm done. If the doctors are right? Then a child's health may have been destroyed for no reason.
Tests were done... (Score:3)
She was confirmed with GI issues. The shunt, isn't extreme. It was an alternative to the proposition of removing a large portion of her intestines. (The more common treatment which has far greater life long consequences.)
BCH refused to run the tests. They killed a five year old girl because they refused to. When her brother came with similar symptoms. They wanted to charge the mother. But finally ran a test. It confirmed mitochondrial disease, but they didn't tell the parents. Then a second lab confirmed th
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She was confirmed with GI issues.
Did she see a GI specialist? No.
Were any actual diagnostic tests run? No.
Was she verified to have mitochondrial disease as the source of these issues? Nope, even though such tests for it exists.
Are there other medical issues that cause the same set of problems? Yep
Do GI issues automatically imply she has mitochondrial disease? Hell to the no
She could very well have mitochondrial disease. But at this point she basically has Schrodinger's Cat disease because her parents won't run any actual tests that exist f
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No! What is going on at Boston Childre's is in no way reasonable. Please read the ABC News story. Does this seem "psychosomatic" to you?
Justina's ordeal began in 2010, when she had severe cramps because of a stomach blockage, according to her father. Doctors at Connecticut Children's Hospital unsuccessfully tried to "flush" her lower intestinal tract and subsequently did exploratory surgery, he said. Doctors found a congenital band, about 20 inches of cartilage wrapped around her colon and removed that and the girl's appendix, he said.
In 2011, when her condition did not improve, he said doctors referred Justina to Dr. Alejandro F. Flores, a gastroenterologist at Tufts.
Does referral to a gastroenterologist seem "unreasonable" for a problems of the bowel and stomach??
You don't suppose that the problem could be with Boston Children's? You might want to read this too:
Frustration on all fronts in struggle over child’s future [bostonglobe.com]
The abuse here is by Boston Children's in the form of an ultimatum: abandon the treatment plan from an expert
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Munchausen by proxy? That would be tough since they have so little access to her. If anything this is Munchausen by state agency.
Why she has gotten progressively worse in state care over the last year plus? Might that be a sign that treating a physical ailment by psychological means may be ... "ineffective"?
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Little access? They had like 15 _years_ of access to her. What in the fuck are you carrying on about?
She has been under state control now for well over a year. She has gotten worse under state control.
If you think this is all "in her head" you are wrong. Go read the ABC News story. There is enough medical history to show that it isn't.
Re:Unbelievable and disgusting abuse of state powe (Score:4, Informative)
I found it interesting that she was taken off the medications used for stroke victims which they say was diagnosed via MRI as a large stroke. MRI is a standard diagnostic for stroke or also a CT scan and that it is related to the original diagnosis as it's a possible side effect of the mitochondrial disease. It's also a physical sign that would rule out somatoform disorder or somatic symptom disorders.
Being that it was characterized as a large stoke tells me that the MRI should have shown it clearly making misdiagnoses unlikely.
Actually, no... (Score:2)
I've read reports by doctors, reports by investigators, reports by even some involved who have admitted that the process done by BCH/CPS violated procedure (for example, those physicians already involved were supposed to be a part of the health review and were not allowed to participate).
And we're not talking about a podunk hospital kook. We're talking about Tuft's another highly recognized hospital.
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You didn't really get the back story right, and I never claimed that DDoSing the hospital helps at all. I have to say it is odd that you think that.
No... (Score:3)
Long Story Short.
Parents have sick child with rare condition not very well understood.
BCH doesn't believe condition exists. (BCH is already documented with killing one child with this condition.) So when parents arrive and reference diagnosis. BCH immediately assumes the parents are harming the kids.
BCH and CPS kidnap and torture, and likely will kill the child. All while refusing medical care. Because they like "crazy parents" who believe their kid doesn't need medical care because it's all in their silly
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Also, it appears the parents shopped doctors looking for one that was willing to diagnose her without doing any tests. She had been seen by others for the same mitochondrial dise
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You will also find... :'-(
That a 5 year old was refused care for the same disease and died. Her brother developed similar symptoms. BCH wanted to charge her. But she had friends (basically worked for Child Services). When they BCH finally relented and tested, without notifying the parents, it showed up as a probable case of mitochondria disease. They still were satisfied and sent the muscle sample to another lab. Who confirmed it a likely case. They finally relented and released the boy, who is doing well b
Adolescent script kiddies (Score:3, Informative)
Some probably adolescent script kiddies with an ego by far exceeding their intelligence try to play digital lynch mob.
What pathetic little cunts.
Not for the first time showing how much worse than individual stupidity their collective stupditiy can be.
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You have no idea. I ran with Anonymous before they became "hacktivists" (back when they were still doing POOL'S CLOSED, etc). Encyclopedia Dramatica had a picture of one of the raids on Habbo I participated in - I think the newer incarnation of it still does (I was the guy copy-pasting Clarence Carter's "Strokin'" over and over again). Back then, Anonymous raided PURELY to screw with people and get a reaction. It wasn't about activism, it wasn't about "changing things" or trying to fight perceived injustice
What about Justina? (Score:4, Insightful)
It should be painfully obvious if her health issues were as a result of her parents' psychological pressure since she hasn't been under their influence for over a year. So why don't any of the "advocates" fighting for the parents actually show us how Justina's doing now?
If Justina is FINE now, then it would be quite obvious that the Doctors at the Boston Children's Hospital were correct. If she's still suffering from the same symptoms, then the parents have a much stronger case.
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So you think psychological problems just goes away like the flick of a switch? It doesn't. Many mental diseases are permanent and treatment just lessens the problems or make the symptom free periods longer.
That includes the mental scars from abuse.
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Re:What about Justina? (Score:4, Informative)
"State takes custody of teenage girl" (Score:3)
The State has absolutely no reason to take these parents' child from them.
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If she were my child, there would be no way I would let them stop me from getting her back. If paperwork and appeals didn't do the trick, I would very quickly escalate the actions I took to ensure her safety and care under my responsibility. That might mean intimidation or violence...so be it. They threw the first stone. The State has absolutely no reason to take these parents' child from them.
I agree with you that that The State had no reason to take the child, but be careful. The State views those that use violence against it as the most vile criminals and would not hesitate to have you thrown in prison. If you are in prison how can you help your child?
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Violence is never the preferred answer...but when it IS the answer, there is no other substitute.
Members calling for a halt to the attacks. (Score:2)
Incidentally, an avalanche is generally considered a destructive force.
Already affecting patients (Score:4, Interesting)
Blind machinegunner in Kindergarten (Score:2)
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If I recall the story the parents and her primary care physician disagreed with the hospital on her treatment (and her illness). The hospital decided the parents and the doctor were acting in a manner unsafe for the child and took her.
Personally a bunch of BS, the families own doctor selected the course of treatment, why should the hospital have the ability to override and steal a child?
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the way i understand it is that your family doctor may have privileges in the hospital where you are staying, but the hospital's own doctor's make the final decision on the diagnosis and the treatment. The chief of the department to the attending and the residents. your doctor is there to answer their questions unless he is one of the above in the pecking order. even then depending on the diagnosis, you may have several departments in the hospital have to agree on a diagnosis and treatment plan and course o
Re:What we would like to know (Score:4, Interesting)
The family's own doctor selected a course of treatment _without_ performing the standard diagnostic test to indicate the condition. Also, this family went forum-shopping for a doctor until they found one that gave the diagnosis they wanted.
On the surface this looks like a classic case of Münchausen syndrome by proxy. Other clues--the hospital said that the girl seemed less tense when her parents weren't around.
I was taken away from my alcoholic mother for a year. I met two other kids (brother and sister) while in foster care whose parents pimped them out.
It's a drastic measure to take kids away from their parents, but the kids will survive, whether it turns out to have been warranted or not. Calm the f* down.
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Are you implying I'm not calm? I don't understand that last sentence...
If the doctor is not doing his job, perhaps the hospital should move to have his license to practice medicine revoked. That seems like the best way to solve this problem. If he truly does invasive medical procedures without cause he should be removed from the profession to protect us all.
No... (Score:2)
What we know is that several doctors were excluded. Doctors who by law and policy should of been included. What we know is that BCH has a history of issues over this diagnosis, because they don't recognize it.
And hey shithead. Her condition has significantly worsened while she's been trapped and tortured in the mental ward without receiving medical care. Oh, we're not talking about a podunk hospital doctor here. We're talking about a head of Tufts Hospital.
Oh, and pretty much every independent review, has
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Tufts NEMC does have a long history with pediatrics, but Boston Children's is the go to hospital for advanced pediatric care in Boston -- possibly even the US. Tufts has 66 pediatric beds; Children's has 395.
Children's is obligated by law to report suspected cases of Munchhausen by proxy; it was the courts that ordered this girl taken out of her parents' care. There's no upside to Children's for reporting a parent they don't actually suspect of medical abuse. For one thing, the parents and Internet "act
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Wait, I just realized their is a test of this illness....
This should be pretty cut and dry then, perform the test, if she has the illness then she can go home...right?
AC (Score:2)
100% not true.
When this is done, I sadly wager that someone will be dead (probably Justina) and the BCH doctor will lose his license.
Except that's not exactly true... (Score:5, Informative)
a) Mitochondrial disease is not well understood, and Justina in fact shows symptoms that point to such. As does her sibling.
b) BCH had a similar case, they tried to seize a 5 year old girl. Only thing is when Child Protective Services (CPS) went to the home, they realized it was someone who used to work for them and that they knew were not a danger. So custody was restored.
c) But at this point, their 5 year old daughter had gone without treatment for so long. She died.
d) Their son began to show similar symptoms. This time BCH did do a test. The result showed positive. But they did not inform the parents for three months. And still did not act on it. A second test was done by an independent lab. Which also confirmed evidence of mitochondrial disease. Their son was released.
e) Their son has since gotten treatment at Tufts under the same doctor treating Justina. Who is regarded as one of the premier experts in this field. Oh, guess what. After the restoration of treatment, their son's condition improved. Shame their daughter hadn't been treated by BCH, or she'd probably be alive.
f) BCH killed one child and is now killing another.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The hospital pretty much does not believe in Mitochondrial disease. Just as many didn't believe in fibromylangia or Lyme disease.
And instead claim "she is just crazy..."
They might as well say the reason your daughter can't walk anymore is because she is a teenage girl and suffers from hysteria.
Re: (Score:3)
The hospital pretty much does not believe in Mitochondrial disease. Just as many didn't believe in fibromylangia or Lyme disease.
I'm not aware of anyone who "didn't believe in Lyme disease". I AM aware that the vast majority of medical professionals still reject "chronic Lyme disease", because there's no evidence for it.
Fibromylangia is just a label that's been stuck on a bunch of symptoms which may or may not be related, and may or may not have a common cause. Everyone agrees that the symptoms exist - nobody can show a mechanism which explains them all.
And instead claim "she is just crazy..."
In cases like the ones you mentioned, that diagnosis is accurate 9 times out of
Re:What we would like to know (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the story:
http://www.slate.com/articles/... [slate.com]
Re:What we would like to know (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Google - we're not your lazy ass servant.
There are hundreds of articles documenting the fact that she has become almost incapacitated under BCH/CPS care.
This family will receive a $50 million settlement when this is all done.
Re: (Score:2)
Great, but what's their source? I have a million articles saying candy is a cure for cancer. They're all sourced out of my ass, but I have a lot of them!
If you make a claim, you back it up. I can't seem to find where Justina is losing her goddamned hair.
Re:What we would like to know (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems odd that she still hasn't had a muscle biopsy to confirm the diagnosis because of concerns over pain and anesthesia even though she's already had surgery to insert a port into her digestive tract.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:What we would like to know (Score:4, Informative)
Why girl was removed. (Score:3, Insightful)
Girl has a rare mitochondrial disease, her sibling has been diagnosed with it as well. She was receiving treatment at Tuft's. She was ill with a stomach bug, but has complications (ie: has a access point in her intestines for treatment access). When they contacted the primary physican they work with on their daughter's illness. He informed the family that the gastreoentologist they work with was now at BCH (not too far away). And that they might want to go there since he is already familiar with her and he
Re: (Score:2)
The same thing would probably happen to most of their members?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The doctor diagnosed her with an actual physical illness without running the tests needed to diagnose her. Boston Children's Hospital did some of those tests, and they indicated that she probably didn't have it.
They said her parents were medically abusing her because they took her to a large number of doctors and appeared to be doing forum-shopping until they found a diagnosis they liked - mitochondrial disease is claimed by roughly 50% of parents who are ultimately found guilty of medical abuse. Her parent
Okay...let's clear some things up. (Score:2)
Justina has a GI issue, essentially her intestines down move stuff properly. They get clogged. Rather than remove much of the colin as many recommend for such, the doctor proposed the port be added to allow them to flush.
This was not a "we are doing more than we should", but let's try an alternative to avoid doing a horrendous surgery.
Her sister was tested and confirmed. BCH won't test. They don't beleive in the disease. In fact they killed a 5 year old girl by refusing to test or treat. Her brother later w
Okay... (Score:2)
So let me ask you this...
When parents refuse to allow their children to receive medical treatment...what do we do? We take their kids away and exclaim that we're erring on the side of real medical treatment.
So why the fuck when a hospital as well known as Tufts, and who is the premier expert in this particular area is treating a child with very good results. Do we let another hospital say, no, we're going to refuse medical care because we think she's just faking it.
WTF
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hospitals and doctors are just an awful symptom of our horrible health care system.
How would you like to sit in an ER all day?
Versus?
Because (Score:2, Insightful)
BCH is kidnapping and torturing children.
Thoughtless how... (Score:3)
Pretty much all other means outside of the use of force have failed. What else do you want us to do to help these parants.
Cause frankly, if this dad asked for help to rescue his daughter by force, I will tell you there are quite a few of us ready to come up to Mass and pledge our rifles if need be.
Re: (Score:2)
While I won't outright dismiss your viewpoint, I would point out that "come up to Mass and pledge our rifles if need be" is the definition of vigilantism as you've framed it and guaranteed to end up in the lynching of an innocent person sooner or later.
It's NOT complex... (Score:2)
It was done largely without basis because BCH doesn't recognize the illness that Justina was being treated for. That is the real issue.
If it was ALL in her !@#$ head, Justina would be getting better. Not worse....
The fact she has gotten severely worse without treatment pretty much shows that BCH's diagnosis was WRONG. And Tuft's is in fact more likely correct.
But you dumb fucks are arguing that it's better to say "oh silly girl, it's all in your head, we're going to refuse to get you medical care, as you c