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Malaysian Passenger Plane Reportedly Shot Down Over Ukraine 752

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the can't-we-all-get-along dept.
An anonymous reader writes The Russian newswire service Interfax is reporting that a Malaysian passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down with a Buk ground-to-air missile over Ukraine near the Russian border. The Associated Press cites an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister as the source. First reports are that it was mistaken for a Ukrainian AN-26. Malaysia airlines confirms they lost contact with the plane (last known position), but there's no confirmation it was shot down (yet). The Ukrainian government accused Russia of shooting down a fighter jet in Ukrainian airspace last night. Reports indicate there are no survivors.
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Malaysian Passenger Plane Reportedly Shot Down Over Ukraine

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  • Wow. Terrble Turn. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MightyYar (622222) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:29AM (#47475705)

    What a horrible tragedy, and one that changes the political climate considerably. Obama will face much less resistance from Europe if Russia turns out to be responsible. It also gives the Ukraine a reason to call in US "specialists" for help with the investigation.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MightyYar (622222) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:32AM (#47475743)

    I share your hope but not your optimism. Disappearing over the Ukrainian/Russian border would be a remarkable coincidence. Then again, a remarkable coincidence started WWI, so...

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:43AM (#47475865)

    Russia hasn't taken over Ukraine yet. Unless you meant another fascist junta.

  • you don't know what 'government' means, do you?

  • by SuperBanana (662181) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:54AM (#47476005)

    Citation required (seriously, you couldn't be bothered?)

    I can't find anything to back your claim.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:55AM (#47476009)

    Is that one of those separatists who wears a Russian uniform, was delivered by Russian transports, and uses Russian military equipment?

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle (4333) * on Thursday July 17, 2014 @11:59AM (#47476063) Homepage Journal

    And by the way, why would a commercial airliner fly through such an airspace anyway?

    Because the time & fuel savings were weighed to be more significant than any risks to commercial air traffic? Until today.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:12PM (#47476213)
    To answer your question...

    The location tracking clearly indicated it is a normal flight path and at an altitude where only radar guided type missiles could hit. In other words, the weapons that could reach the altitude for it to hit should have known it was a passenger airplane. Unless they were rebels given equipment with very little training and no infrastructure to compare the flight paths with known flights.
  • Re:Confused. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gstoddart (321705) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:12PM (#47476217) Homepage

    Right, because nerds don't give a rats ass about civilian casualties in war zones from commercial jets getting shot down.

    Nosirree, none of us ever fly because we're always safely ensconced in our mom's basement. Doesn't affect us at all. And we certainly might not know people from the region.

    Don't like these stories? Don't read 'em.

  • Re:Ah. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rhywden (1940872) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:13PM (#47476235)

    The separatists have control over a Ukrainian anti-air installation (A-1402). That installation contains BUKs, which are quite able to reach a plane at that height. Also, given the separatist's demonstrated willingness to shoot down airplanes and that they also lied about their capabilities, I dare say that it's not looking good for them at the moment.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:21PM (#47476305)

    If civilian commercial aviation is becoming fair game for armies seeking to gain advantage, then the world has just gone to a very bad place.

  • by MightyYar (622222) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:31PM (#47476423)

    more people than that are dieing daily under where that plane was flying.

    For some reason, people almost universally completely freak out about airplane crashes. From a political standpoint, it will matter a lot more than the deaths on the ground.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IgShaman81 (788693) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:32PM (#47476437)
    I, for one, live in Odessa and consider Russia to be the major aggressor in this war. Vast majority of locals think the same. We elected new president just 6 weeks ago, so please stop making noises about illegality of UA's government. This was ridiculous at the time Russians started saying this, and it's old now.
  • by Lawrence_Bird (67278) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:45PM (#47476577) Homepage

    Planes have already been shot down as part of the hostilities. To assume that because your commercial flight is flying higher than those it can't possibly be targeted is the height of stupidity. Likewise falling back on the 'well, Ukraine never closed their airpsace'. Just because a road is open does not make it wise to take it.

    I'm sure flying over Ukraine is a cheaper route for the airlines. Until something bad happens and your bird drops. This is all about a failure of risk management. It is one thing if your final destination is in/near the hostilities. Then you make a decision if you are going to fly that route, well thats the only way to go and everyone knows whats what before you start. But to do a fly over when you can easily route around it (even within Urkraine) is stupid.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by msauve (701917) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:50PM (#47476625)
    ITAR-TASS [itar-tass.com] (Russian state owned) reported eyewitness claims that "Militiamen of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez..."

    Given that the geographic area is predominantly occupied by separatists ("eyewitnesses"), and the speed with which the report got to Russia, that report may be a "smoking gun," almost literally.
  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by ShanghaiBill (739463) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:51PM (#47476641)

    I, for one, live in Odessa and consider Russia to be the major aggressor in this war. Vast majority of locals think the same.

    Go ask the same question in Donetsk or Sevastopol, and you are likely to get a different answer.

    We elected new president just 6 weeks ago,

    ... to replace the democratically elected pro-Russian president, who was overthrown by military force. This new election was held in full knowledge that the eastern (pro-Russian) regions were in turmoil and could not meaningfully participate.

    I am glad that Ukraine is turning toward the West, but I think it is very disturbing how it has all happened. The Russians are not the only ones with dirty hands.

  • Re:Possible factor (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:51PM (#47476643)

    Paint? The civilian airliner had an operational transponder ... if anyone at the SAM site cared to listen.
    These are folks who can't be bothered to be careful, and probably don't care much they made a mistake.

  • by rsborg (111459) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:51PM (#47476653) Homepage

    I'm pretty sure that it is neither Malaysian Airlines, nor Boeing's fault that it was hit with an anti-aircraft missile.

    What, is the 777 supposed to be equipped with flares and chaff now?

    No, but this flight was quite a few miles off course - same airline, same manufacturer/model. The coincidence is noteworthy.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by praxis (19962) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @12:54PM (#47476669)

    I share your hope but not your optimism.

    Your optimism is misplaced.

    He implied he did not have optimism. Not sure how one misplaces what one does not have.

  • by bledri (1283728) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:06PM (#47476767)

    If I were Malaysian Air I would not be surprised if passengers start asking for flights on some other model plane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    I'd be asking to fly an airline that can stay on course...

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by scubamage (727538) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:18PM (#47476899)
    I'm not sure. It was at 32000 feet when they last had contact, which means it wasn't quite at cruising altitude, but it was still several miles up. The 777's cruising speed is mach .84, about 630 MPH. I'm not going to do the math (i'd love it if one of you aerospace guys would, especially since we know where it landed and the last known altitude and the great circle between Schipol and Kuala Lumpur), but I think it would be safe to say that on the ascent it would be going about 350-450 MPH. I can't see terrorists getting their hands on that kind of hardware. Both Ukraine and Russia on the other hand...
  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:26PM (#47476951)

    I, for one, live in Odessa and consider Russia to be the major aggressor in this war. Vast majority of locals think the same.

    Go ask the same question in Donetsk or Sevastopol, and you are likely to get a different answer.

    Yep, just like the neo-Nazi's who refuse to recognize Obama as President of the U.S. Same retards, different language.

    ... to replace the democratically elected pro-Russian president, who was overthrown by military force.

    You mean when he fled the country with his looted money in the face of mass civilian protests. No military force was necessary, just a fear of justice after years of robbing his country and people.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by T.E.D. (34228) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:32PM (#47477001)

    In the US pilots can and will alter their course to get around bad weather systems or take advantage of more helpful prevailing winds that day. For a trans-continental flight, 100 miles is a pittance.

    Fortunately, for us, our pilots don't have to also take in consideration whether Nebraska is currently having a dispute with Kansas.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IgShaman81 (788693) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:32PM (#47477011)

    >> I, for one, live in Odessa and consider Russia to be the major aggressor in this war. Vast majority of locals think the same.

    >Go ask the same question in Donetsk or Sevastopol, and you are likely to get a different answer.

    That would be a bit complicated since these territories are controlled by terrorists these days. As far as I know from refugees (and we have LOTS of those coming from Donetsk and Luhansk regions), local support for terrorists is minimal. It is mostly limited to local criminals, ex- political leaders (Communist and "Party of Regions" parties).

    >>We elected new president just 6 weeks ago,

    >... to replace the democratically elected pro-Russian president, who was overthrown by military force. This new election was held in full knowledge that the eastern (pro-Russian) regions were in turmoil and could not meaningfully participate.

    Yanukovich was not overthrown by military force. There were clashes in the center if Kiev, but police and military was on his side at the time, and they had guns, grenades, armed vehicles; rebels had one catapult and molotov's. Yanukovich didn't care about anything besides money, and he fled the country as soon as he realized that there's not much more to make. Basically, he bled Ukraine's economy in a major way - to the extent where we had a revolution with majority support from UA's population. Odessa has been one of "his" regions. Majority of locals supported President Poroshenko (new elect), same goes for all other ex-Yanukovich's regions - Nikolaev, Kherson, Zaporizhya, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov, parts of Donetsk and Luhansk where there was no turmoil at the time.

    One last bit on "democratically elected" - I participated in 2004 elections as an observer - there's no such thing as democratic vote in regions controlled by Yanukovich representatives.

  • by phayes (202222) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @01:56PM (#47477221) Homepage

    So Putin, who is responsible for arming these terrorists with missiles capable of bringing down airliners at cruising altitude has just killed 23 US citizens. Let's hope that US & EU sanctions get truly serious in response.

  • by nytes (231372) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @02:08PM (#47477317) Homepage

    Missle: In the beginning, there was darkness. And the darkness was without form, and void.

    Pilot: What the hell is he talking about?

    Missle: And in addition to the darkness there was also me. And I moved upon the face of the darkness. And I saw that I was alone. Let there be light.

  • by ultranova (717540) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @02:46PM (#47477597)

    So Putin, who is responsible for arming these terrorists with missiles capable of bringing down airliners at cruising altitude has just killed 23 US citizens. Let's hope that US & EU sanctions get truly serious in response.

    They won't. The problem is that Russia supplies much of Europe's fossile fuels, specifically oil and gas. That's yet another reason to stop using them.

    With any luck, this crisis might serve to start a long-term program to achieve energy independence for Europe, after which Russia can be isolated like the rogue nation hated by all its neighbours it is. But right now that's impossible.

  • by tquasar (1405457) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @02:50PM (#47477639)
    Hey! Look over there... Perfect timing as Israel advances into Gaza.
  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by amaurea (2900163) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @03:16PM (#47477793) Homepage

    That would be a bit complicated since these territories are controlled by terrorists these days.

    Please let's not make the term "terrorist" so broad that it means nothing. There is a civil war going on in Ukraine. The aim of the two sides is to control territory, not to terrorize people, though of course the war doesn't exactly make people feel safe. Not all bad things in the world are terrorism.

  • by naranek (1727936) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @04:06PM (#47478079)

    You say it like it's a good thing.. a big country isolated, hated and full of unhappy people. What could go wrong? I live right next door to them, and I'd much rather see them happy and enjoying life, because that way they'd probably be lot less likely to start new conflicts.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by msauve (701917) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @04:17PM (#47478169)
    LOL. If fake, how was the detailed post, which included pictures, created before the crash was publicly known, and why was it taken down so quickly? Also, you've cited no references for your claim. Given that 2 weeks ago the Donetsk People's Republic claimed to have captured Buk missiles, and today they claimed to have none, their integrity is quite suspect.
  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rtb61 (674572) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @07:13PM (#47479175) Homepage

    Better question to ask are who benefits and what was the regional track record. Who benefits at this time is pretty clear Ukraine and Israel. Ukraine into attempting to bring in international support. Things are not all hunky dory into Ukraine defence forces, they can not even properly feed their troops let alone pay them, the oligarch are too busy strip mining the country of anything they can loot and selling off the remainder to the US, so desperation is rising. Israel, another land based invasion of that Warsaw like ghetto Gaza, which will be kept off the front pages (there are highly skilled mercenaries from all over the world operating in the Ukraine, only temporarily loyal to the highest bidder). All prior rebel shoots down of aircraft were at low altitude, none at high altitude. Apparently a very high skill set of many operators is required to operate the system, definitely not point and click, strictly specialist trained operators.

    The biggest indication of false flag, western media are trying to claim Russia shot down the aircraft without any reason why given and only mention the Ukraine government, the biggest benefactor in passing as a maybe might be.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shutdown -p now (807394) on Thursday July 17, 2014 @07:25PM (#47479225) Journal

    unlikely as a crew trained to use a highly sophisticated SA-11 system would also know how to tell a civilian airliner from a military transport turboprop

    What makes you believe that they have a properly trained crew? It's much more likely that, after acquiring those AA launchers, they cobbled together a team of "best and brightest" who did their best to figure it out - and maybe had a hazy recollection from 40 years ago when they were conscripts. In fact, that's precisely why I think it's the most likely scenario - people operating complicated machinery without proper training is exactly the kind of thing that'd be likely to lead to this disaster.

  • Re:Wait for it... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mashiki (184564) <mashiki&gmail,com> on Friday July 18, 2014 @04:22AM (#47480985) Homepage

    Funny that you say "deliberate strategy" and "war crimes" did you miss the story today about the Hamas spokesman saying that civilians should be doing their utmost to be human shields? Hello, that's a war crime. Shooting rockets at civilians, war crime. Targeting schools, and playgrounds in Sderot...well that's a war crime too. Building rockets inside civilian structures, war crime. Launching them from civilian buildings, war crime. Launching them from hospitals, and religious buildings, war crime.

    If Israel was really about "collective punishment" they would have shut off power to gaza along with the water. They would also refuse to allow any of them to transit into Israel to work. They would also reduce food stuffs to the materials for basic nutrition. But they're not doing that either. Let us not forget that technically since they're an "elected government" and they're firing rockets. That is a full on declaration of war, Israel could with due-prejudice level every building that they even suspect that's involved. And fully occupy the area, but funny they're not doing that either.

    The UN is as close to the most anti-jewish organization with a "humane" face to exist, and that's because of the OIC. But hey, while you're going on about that gag order. The people who killed the Palestinian(actually arab that lived in Israel) have already been arrested, and it's before the courts as we speak. Where's the palestinian government looking for the ones who killed the Jewish kids. And while we're at it, why was it at the first opportunity they started launching even more rockets. Nearly 1k in under 9 days.

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