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Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine 582

Posted by timothy
from the one-for-all-and-what's-the-password? dept.
U.S. officials today made public satellite imagery which they say proves that Russian forces have been shelling eastern Ukraine in a campaign to assist rebel groups fighting Ukraine’s government. The U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which released the civilian-taken satellite images Sunday, said they show visual evidence that Russia has been firing shells across the border at Ukrainian military forces. Officials also said the images show that Russia-backed separatists have used heavy artillery, provided by Russia, in attacks on Ukrainian forces from inside Ukraine. One image dated July 25/26 shows what DNI claims is “ground scarring” on the Russian side of the border from artillery aimed at Ukrainian military units in Ukraine, as well as the resultant ground craters on the Ukrainian side of the border:
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Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

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  • So (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 27, 2014 @04:19PM (#47545063)

    Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia.

    • by flyneye (84093)

      Historically speaking, war over border, authority and assets wrote the history books. From failures to new republics to squabbles over price tags, we fought over turf and the right to rule over it. Nothing to see here, just another real estate squabble. It may even be Darwinian from some perspective. Orwellian would be a nice analogy, but Hollywood made that , so you can expect someone will get sued over copyright. The biggest lawyer backed by the biggest wallet always win, I'll put my money on Hollywood to

  • Great... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NicBenjamin (2124018) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @04:19PM (#47545065)

    The side that apparently blew a 300-civilian passenger jet out of the sky because they're too dumb to know what a Boeing looks like is getting direct military support from a major regional power which just happens to have nuclear weapons.

    And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.

    • Re:Great... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 27, 2014 @04:51PM (#47545303)

      Ugmm, haven't you been watching the news. A Malaysian jet knowingly and delibrately flew into an innocent russian missle that was minding its own business. The honorable president Putin is demanding an appology from Malasia and the Ukraine for the destruction of it costly missile. The USAians response to this event is completely opposite to what would have happened 20 years ago. What has changed? We (the USA) became part of the global league of economic partners who strive for transcendent harmony and economic prosperity through translateral partnerships both domestically and abroad. What that means is the Russian oligarchs have invested majorly in the USian economy and news outlets. Not only will the USA not keep illegals out of the country, it will do nothing to combat the russian bear, if it would hurt our economic partnerships. The USA is not an country, it is just a few of those points of lights that bush senior was talking about soo long ago.

      The USA died in 2008 when Ron Paul lost the canidicy.

    • Re:Great... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by viperidaenz (2515578) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @05:06PM (#47545451)

      Not only could they not tell it was Boeing, it was flying at over 33,000 feet. The other military planes they were targeting can't even fly over 20,000 feet. Those were turboprops and fighter jets.

    • Re:Great... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kjella (173770) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @05:49PM (#47545799) Homepage

      The side that apparently blew a 300-civilian passenger jet out of the sky because they're too dumb to know what a Boeing looks like is getting direct military support from a major regional power which just happens to have nuclear weapons. And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.

      Well, if you want to put it that way the plane would never have been shot down if Russia had supplied a professional crew instead of teaching the separatists how to aim and pull the trigger. At least with the Russian military firing they probably know what they're aiming at.

      • The side that apparently blew a 300-civilian passenger jet out of the sky because they're too dumb to know what a Boeing looks like is getting direct military support from a major regional power which just happens to have nuclear weapons. And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.

        Well, if you want to put it that way the plane would never have been shot down if Russia had supplied a professional crew instead of teaching the separatists how to aim and pull the trigger. At least with the Russian military firing they probably know what they're aiming at.

        You're assuming that the 'separatists' are not actually Russian military / mercenaries. I'm not sure where I saw the statistic unfortunately, but I read 80% are Russians and only 20% are actually Ukrainians.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      >And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.

      You are correct. Detroit is fucked. Your other observations are correct also.

    • Re:Great... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jafiwam (310805) on Monday July 28, 2014 @09:00AM (#47549011) Homepage Journal

      The side that apparently blew a 300-civilian passenger jet out of the sky because they're too dumb to know what a Boeing looks like is getting direct military support from a major regional power which just happens to have nuclear weapons.

      And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.

      This is not direct military support.

      These are Russians that moved into Ukrainian territory either as soldiers in Russian forces, or as "civilians" over the last few years.

      The attackers are RUSSIANS. The guys operating the BUK that shot down the airliner were RUSSIAN SOLDIERS. You don't hand a BUK over to "separatists" and a few months later have them wipe out 5 aircraft in a week. Take a look at the BUK system sometime. There is NO WAY the equipment was "handed over". It was OPERATED by RUSSIANS just like every other proxy war, Vietnam, Korea, and a whole bunch of smaller ones.

      Russia is going to do what they are going to do, and for the most part, the West is going to stay out of it. Ukraine needs to start an absolutely brutal guerrilla war, or they are done for. That's all there is to it. (They are probably STILL done for no matter what they do.) The Soviets are re-building their empire.

  • by troll -1 (956834) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @04:25PM (#47545125)
    Why can't they be like the UK and Scotland where they all sit down and discuss it over a nice cup of tea? Then if they want their independence they can have it. No big fuss.
    • by CRCulver (715279) <crculver@christopherculver.com> on Sunday July 27, 2014 @04:40PM (#47545231) Homepage

      With the UK and Scotland, no politician's life depends on the outcome. Whatever happens with the Scottish referendum, the people in office now expect to eventually depart from office and enter some cushy retirement position.

      With Russia, Putin cannot afford to back down from a display of military might: it keeps his support among the masses high, and intimidates other post-Soviet states like Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan which he hopes to bring into his Eurasian Union. If Putin were to back down and support a peaceful resolution whose outcome might not satisfy Russian nationalists, he could find himself out of power. It's not a matter of him being done in by the West like a Saddam or Milosevic; that claim of Western conspiracy against him is just played for the cameras. The fact is that he's got enough enemies within Russian elite circles, he's pissed too many people off, that if his hold on power weakens, he'll certainly end up imprisoned or dead.

      • by gtall (79522) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @05:35PM (#47545703)

        I doubt he's got enough enemies in Russia with enough power to take him out. He controls the state police and the armed forces. There would have to be mutiny in the armed forces and that won't happen because they do not want to be shot by the state police.

        Putin is doing this because he fears others believe he has a small dick. There's nothing more to it than that. Everything else is window dressing to cover up his lack of manhood. The state police are tasked with defending his small dick.

        • by Aighearach (97333)

          Well, at a minimum it explains all the topless photo shoots he poses for.

        • by CRCulver (715279)

          He controls the state police and the armed forces. There would have to be mutiny in the armed forces and that won't happen because they do not want to be shot by the state police.

          People said Ceausescu had an iron grip on power, and look what happened in 1989: he got overthrown by some of his juniors in the state apparatus so they could rule in his place, and the army started taking orders from them instead of Ceausescu. Granted, the new Romanian leaders were able to seize power under the cover of a "popula

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Charliemopps (1157495)

      Because this was never about independence. Russia installed their own primer minister to prevent Ukrain from joining the EU. But he sucked. The EU and the US helped stage a Coup and installed their own pro-west leader in the hopes of getting Ukrain in the EU. No way Russia is letting that happen. The EU has its own problems but they pale in comparison to Russias. The last thing Putin wants is a country with a lot of relatives of Russians getting the EU treatment and finding out how nice it is to be out of t

      • by Tom (822)

        The last thing Putin wants is a country with a lot of relatives of Russians getting the EU treatment and finding out how nice it is to be out of their largely lawless, virtual dictatorship of a state.

        You should update your propaganda-driven beliefs. I've got a russian girlfriend and I've been to Russia myself. At least for where I was (St. Petersburg), it looks much like any european city, except more beautiful (but that's a St. Petersburg special, they made very sure to keep all the old palaces and buildings in shape).

        Crime was horrible in the 1990s, my girlfriend says, but here's why most russians actually love Putin: Since he became the top dog, things have been continuously improving. Crime is low,

        • by Xest (935314) on Monday July 28, 2014 @06:47AM (#47548469)

          Your arguments aren't backed up by real actual statistics.

          Russia has atrocious crime rates, abysmal life expectancy, major problems with alcoholism, rampant corruption that means investment on public infrastructure rarely comes close to improving it to the extent it should due to the amount milked away, ranks poorly on civil liberties and freedoms, need I go on?

          To make the point and actually provide some numbers, people make a big thing of murder rates in America, but in Russia you're almost twice as likely again to be murdered. You're over 9 times more likely to be murdered in Russia than the UK, France, or Germany and five times more likely than even the poorest European nations like Romania. The average wealth per person in Russia is lower than Iran, Tunisia, Brazil, and Mexico. It's well below the global average, and certainly below that of every single EU member nation. Russia's average life expectancy is 4 years below the poorest and lowest EU nation (Romania) and only 1.5 years higher than Iraq with it's decade of war and killings. Whilst Europe has been legalising gay marriage and so forth Russia has been outlawing talking about homosexuality and not ensuring his police investigate brutal beatings and murder of people for being gay, or of an ethnic minority.

          This isn't propaganda, this is statistical fact.

          It sounds like you've been won over by the facade of corrupt spending and wealth in touristy areas (the only bits of Russia anyone would want to live in) and are completely oblivious to the other 99.99% of the country.

          People don't love Putin because he's improved the country, they love him because like all dictators he's a master of propaganda and populism, or did you think all those photoshoots and the massive military parades each year and the nationalist rhetoric over Crimea were all just for his own personal scrapbook? They love him because he gives them hope that they're still a global superpower that could if it wanted rule the world. The problems we're seeing with Russia now are occurring because Putin has started believing his own bullshit - this is ultimately what's referred to by the age old saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" - when you're installed as an untouchable deity of politics, eventually you start believing it.

      • by Carewolf (581105)

        What coup did the EU and US stage?

        There was no coup in Ukraine. There was an impeached president that decided to flee the country and the existing elected non-modified parliament appointing a new temporary one.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by superwiz (655733)
      Because Russia has a serious problem with low birth rates. Ukraine has a 50 million Russian speaking population. For Russia, conquering Ukraine is a matter of long-term survival. The fact that they are doing it through military means instead of simply opening the boarder between the 2 countries is the biggest military blunder in modern Russian history. They have turned a friendly population into enemies.... all in the hopes of reuniting the 2 countries. It's worse than a crime. It's a mistake.
  • Methane Anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by linearz69 (3473163) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @06:00PM (#47545881)

    Putin is an idiot. He started playing games with Ukraine and never saw the long game.

    Doubtful this evidence is fabricated. The US isn't going to fabricate evidence that can be corroborated by others independently. Its not like any of those images are too small for Google Earth. The EU, China, Japanese, and all even some commercial interests have satellites that can see the same thing. Now the US has told them where to look, others can see for themselves. Nobody (except maybe Pravda) has called BS on this.

    But the Russians may be right about a US lead smear campaign..... This is all about sanctions by the EU, which is really all about who sells the EU Natural Gas. The US has some serious gas reserves that is itching to sell for good money. Hard to do if EU is purchasing from Gazprom.

    But this is all on Putin. If he didn't provide the smear material, the US couldn't use it.

    • by Trepidity (597)

      The EU would like to buy American gas rather than Russian, but getting enough LNG infrastructure to replace piped gas is incredibly expensive and not something that can be built quickly.

  • At least by the headline it seems so. I took a look this morning at two of them and you can clearly see some areas in the "pre" that had "bomb craters" just as the purported second "post" image. Also notice differences in resolution.

    These images - just like anything the Russians or Ukranians give - should not be taken at face value.

    • by Rich0 (548339)

      I'm sure the images were heavily edited, if for no other reason than to hide the imaging capabilities the US has.

      I'm sure the UK and Germany have their own satellites/etc, and there are commercial services as well. They can easily go looking for themselves, and probably have done so already.

  • by quantaman (517394) on Sunday July 27, 2014 @08:09PM (#47546547)

    The summary says "Russian forces" which is generally assumed to mean official troops, but I think it's far more likely to be Russian rebels firing on Ukraine from Russia.

    Putin has no need to involve official Russian troops when there are more than enough "volunteers" willing to carry out the battle. Russia gives them a few big guns and they keep them safe on the Russian side of the border so the Ukrainians can't fight back. The bonus is that by keeping the Ukrainians away from the border they can keep it open and continue the flow of troops and arms from Russia.

Murphy's Law, that brash proletarian restatement of Godel's Theorem. -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

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