Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Education Government Apple

FBI Seizes Los Angeles Schools' iPad Documents 229

An anonymous reader writes: The Los Angeles Unified School District had a bold (and expensive) plan to outfit its students with top-of-the-line technology: its 650,000 students will be given Apple iPads to use for school work. The cost? $1 billion. Unfortunately for them, the project has been plagued with problems. Now, the FBI has seized 20 boxes of documents regarding the district's procurement practices and confirmed an investigation. "Hundreds of students initially given the iPads last school year found ways to bypass security installations, downloading games and freely surfing the Web. Teachers complained they were not properly trained to instruct students with the new technology. And questions were raised after emails were disclosed showing that then-Superintendent John Deasy had been in communication with vendors Apple and Pearson before the contracts were put to bid."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

FBI Seizes Los Angeles Schools' iPad Documents

Comments Filter:
  • by Taco Cowboy ( 5327 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:01PM (#48511585) Journal

    Schools often tell us that they are lack of fund to give our children top flight education, so we give money and more money and some more money to the schools hoping that they will have enough $$$ to properly educating the children

    But when schools get the money, where do they spend it on?

    On iPADs !

    Instead of spending more money paying high salaries to much better quality teachers, teachers who are more resourceful, more dedicated teachers, and so on, the schools waste money on iPADs !

    • by Culture20 ( 968837 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:05PM (#48511601)
      If they hired better teachers, what would the teachers' unions do with the worthless teachers?
      In this case I'd like to know what the FBI is investigating. Graft? Or are they investigating the students' "cybercrime" of unlocking the iPads?
      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:15PM (#48511643)

        Maybe they are looking into how badly the students were ripped off by forcing ipads on them.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          How else do you expect the burgeoning masses of youth to learn how to consume?

        • by kelemvor4 ( 1980226 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:39PM (#48511791)

          Maybe they are looking into how badly the students were ripped off by forcing ipads on them.

          No joke, there's only the vast majority of alternative products that provide the same benefits at a lower cost. I guess they may lack the fruity logo on the back...

          • by 2ms ( 232331 )

            Are you able to provide some examples of the devices that you refer to as being the same as iPads at lower cost?

            When I look at major benchmarks such as Geekbench (where iPad Air gets more than twice as high score as fastest Galaxy Tab), or sophisticated reviews of tablets that contain rich varieties of performance assessments (e.g. Anandtech 1 [anandtech.com] or 2 [anandtech.com] where gets similar margin greatest performance than competitors in both general and graphics performance measures), I see iPads generally showing greater perform

      • If they hired better teachers, what would the teachers' unions do with the worthless teachers? In this case I'd like to know what the FBI is investigating. Graft? Or are they investigating the students' "cybercrime" of unlocking the iPads?

        The FBI Hasn't been forthcoming with that detail yet. Assumptions abound.

        • It's obvious isn't it?

          The FBI want free iPads too so they are getting the emails so they can figure out how the superintendent convinced everyone it was a good idea, and also to figure what bulk discount they got so they can negotiate with Apple better.

      • by Kunedog ( 1033226 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:38PM (#48511787)
        We may never know what they're investigating, or who, or why, or how it will cause or affect any criminal prosecution. There's certainly no integrity to the process.

        Remember when a school was caught installing malware on students' macbooks that covertly took pictures of the children in their bedrooms, almost certainly producing child porn? And we even had correspondence that showed faculty used this capability for entertainment?

        http://yro.slashdot.org/story/... [slashdot.org]
        http://yro.slashdot.org/story/... [slashdot.org]
        http://yro.slashdot.org/story/... [slashdot.org]

        The feds investigated but simply decided not to file charges against the school for illegal surveillance, hacking, peeping at kids, etc. I guess that would have set a nasty precedent for the NSA activities that were going on, but only discovered a few years later.
        • My guess is they're looking for evidence of corruption in the procurement contracts.

          • Yeah, $1500+ per iPad is probably a bit high, even with custom software. This looks like a backroom deal between the Superintendent and Apple/Pearson.

            Remember when Apple used to give discounted products to schools and students?

      • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

        Fire them.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

        In Europe if you suck at your job then the company needs to offer you training and support to get better before firing you. I can see why US unions would want to make firing people harder if the natural response of employers is to just replace under performing staff immediately.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The schools do not need more money, they need parents to be parents, and teachers to teach (instead of being cattle drivers and nursery attendants)

      Kids need to be instructed in the basics first, then add other things on. Read, write, respect & social values (by community not state and absolutely not federal), maths. Then move on to rhetoric, arts, sciences, trades, music etc.

      • Social values by community? Are you *trying* to push us back into the era of segregation?

        Sorry, that was a silly question, of course you are, because you're an idiot troll. Try harder next time.
        • by Hungus ( 585181 )

          Social values by community? Are you *trying* to push us back into the era of segregation?

          Sorry, that was a silly question, of course you are, because you're an idiot troll. Try harder next time.

          What has segregation got to do with social values by community?

          Social values by community is like obscenity, the values are set by the people of that community.
          So: Do you take off your hat when you enter a building? Social value by community.
          Do you hold the door open for a female? SVxC.
          Do you use sir when addressing an older individual? SVxC.

          Racists see racism in everything. Those of us who are not, do not.

      • ...respect & social values (by community not state and absolutely not federal)...

        So if my kid goes to school in an area that's predominantly Catholic, she'll be taught to venerate the Virgin Mary and that birth control goes against the will of the Almighty? In spite of the fact that I'm a Buddhist and do not share these values? Thanks, but no thanks.

        (Translation: Your Ebbul Fedril Gummint fetish is out of place in this discussion.)

    • Around here the schools compete to have the most badass video sign out front. Teachers get laid off due the diversion of funds.

    • by radarskiy ( 2874255 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @10:16PM (#48511933)

      But we don't just give them money, we give them money dedicated to specific items. If there is grant money available for computer equipment then you have to write a proposal for computing equipment and you can't spend it on ordinary teachers salaries. If you turn down a grant because it is too specific then you get your budget cut because you obviously have enough already.

    • Better Teachers... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Etherwalk ( 681268 )

      We lost most of the great teachers in the United States when we embraced gender equality. It was definitely the right move, but it cost our country untold billions in terms of the price to education.

      Not many decades ago, women could not go into most high-earning-potential fields. Teacher was one of the few fields of instruction open to them, and as a result, a LOT of the smartest women in the country went into teaching. And there are a *lot* of smart women in the country.

      You still have smart women teachi

      • by fermion ( 181285 )
        The counterpoint here is that when someone has no choice, then one ends up with a lot of unqualified people because they are it involuntarily. The reason we don't have good teachers because teaching is a trade with skills that are only acquired with experience. For instance, if you are going to be a master plumber, there is education and then two years experience. Programs like Teach For America, on the other hand, put teachers in schools but the vast majority leave the classroom before they have the exp
    • by sconeu ( 64226 )

      On top of that, within a week of issuance, they were hacked [cbslocal.com] by the kids to break the security "locks" the district had installed.

    • Not really new. Apple has long been in the business of convincing schools to buy equipment they don't need, and it started with the Apple ][. Schools are told that they need to get kids ready for the new computer age, they get a bunch of computers, but then they have no training, no one knows what to do with them, and they end up getting dusty either in a warehouse or a seldom visited computer corner of a library or classroom.

    • Schools often tell us that they are lack of fund

      Yours obviously was.

    • by Monoman ( 8745 )

      What do you expect? As usual the administration was more willing to fund equipment, not teaching positions. It made headlines and to the uninformed it read like the admins were giving the students what they need.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:07PM (#48511605)

    Let's look at the premise:

    1. Students usually know WAY more about technology than their teachers.
    2. Students also have usually WAY more interest in it than their teachers.
    3. They also know WAY better how to use the internet than their teachers.
    4. Students have WAY more time to spend on breaking security than their teachers have time (and money) to spend on security.
    5. Information flows VERY freely on the schoolyard, especially when being able to transmit that information ups your social status.

    Am I really the only one who is not only not surprised that this happens, but who would have been SEVERELY disappointed if it hadn't?

    • by Anonymous Coward

      IPad is not a computer. It's a dumb appliance or toy. Just because the kids can use doesn't mean they know anything about real technology.

      • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:28PM (#48511731)
        An iPad is a more power computer than any I had access to all through school. It's also a more capable general-purpose computer than those Apple II-series computers and early MacOS 6/7/8 machines that we had use of, and can do more than those MS-DOS-based computers that we had.

        It's all about the software and the peripherals. And the kids appear to have figured out the software part on their own, even though the intent was that they couldn't, let alone wouldn't.
        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I have calculators that are more powerful than the computers we used back at school. That doesn't mean it is a smart idea to go and spend a billion dollars on pocket calculators for everyone.

        • by AJWM ( 19027 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @10:43PM (#48512095) Homepage

          An iPad is a more power computer than any I had access to all through school

          Yep, if you're talking about the innards.

          It's also a more capable general-purpose computer than those Apple II-series computers and early MacOS 6/7/8 machines

          Nope.

          An iPad is an appliance for running apps, not a general-purpose computer. Go ahead, just try to program on it, or hook it up to manipulate some random gizmo.

          Sure, it can be done -- by someone with the right development tools (which wont run on the iPad) and skills. A far cry from what school kids could teach themselves to do with Apple Basic or Hypercard.

      • It's not sold as a computer, but it can be made into one. I turned my iPod Touch into a little remote-accessible Unix system with some compilers and such. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do the same with the current crop of hardware.
      • by gnupun ( 752725 )

        IPad is not a computer. It's a dumb appliance or toy.

        An iPad is just a laptop with the keyboard and mouse replaced with a touchscreen input. It also doesn't have other peripherals like hard disk, USB connectors etc. But it is still, just a regular computer that is more portable than a laptop.

    • Let's look at the premise:

      Better yet, let's look at your premises and see how many of them are true.

      If you hand a kid a gadget he or she has never seen before, it is likely that he or she will fearlessly and successfully figure out what to do with it in short order without the slightest thought to reading instructions or seeking help. Kids are growing up with all the wonderful devices and applications that stymie their elders.

      Yet these same kids are likely to give little thought to the most efficacious or safest ways to use technology. Part of being young is to ignore warnings and directions. This combination of intuitive ability and lack of examination can lead to less productive and even dangerous use of technology by Digital Natives.

      Here are some examples of what I mean:

      Kids don't know how to search.
      Kids don't know how to evaluate.
      Kids don't know how to stay safe.

      Kids don't know how to search

      The simple process of varying search terms is not common to many young searchers: 10.2% responded that kids 'never' do this, and 71.2% said they 'sometimes' do. Only 2% could boast that their students always know to do this. Narrowing a search is another simple skill utilised far too seldom, with 20% reporting this never happens.

      As to Boolean searching, the gap was the greatest: 56.2% said students never use these methods, which suggests to me a lack of instruction. No one reported that students always know to employ these techniques.

      But here is a bigger problem: 'bouncing'. David Loertscher, PhD, used this very appropriate label to describe...a common practice: moving quickly from one resource to another without closely reading any material. Granted, this type of skimming may be used early in a search to find promising information, but it is not productive if a reader doesn't carefully follow up on that information.

      Kids don't know how to use technology for learning or productivity

      It is not enough for youngsters to be masters of their sophisticated cell phones, social networking sites, and gaming devices. Yet these are the three primary areas where kids concentrate their interest and use. Teachers are assuming too much if they take it for granted that students are experts at using applications that are available at school such as office suites, mind-mapping software, graphics tools, etc. Granted, they are likely to be quick to learn, but they do still need instruction and guidance.

      Kids can use Excel for all kinds of great graphs, timelines, tables and other projects, but only if they are exposed to the software.

      Kids do not know how to be smart and safe online

      Because [content] filters offer a false sense of security, the teaching of safe internet searching and communicating is often given short shrift. After all, the filters are keeping out all the bad stuff, right? Wrong. Here are some problems with this line of thinking: Filters both over- and under-block. Even the 'tightest' filter can sometimes let objectionable material pass through. At the same time, a great deal of valuable information can be blocked. I have within the last year asked students to search for terms such as 'triggerfish' , 'sperm whale', and 'breast cancer', only to be blocked.

      Teachers and administrators often have a false sense of security because the filters are in place. Thus, they do not actively teach students about safe internet use. When these youngsters go home, to the mall, to the public library, etc, they may be babes in the woods due to the lack of instruction about safety.

      What kids know (and don't know) about technology [curriculum.edu.au]

      • The kids don't have that goal, and they circumvent those limitations by other means.

        Not being able/willing to alter their search pattern is easily overcome by numbers. You have hundreds of kids looking for a way to break the safety of their device. One of them succeeding is enough to multiply the effect because bragging will instantly set in and copying behaviour has always been the staple of the school yard. There is no need to refine your search input if you simply multiply the number of people searching.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:08PM (#48511611)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by JThundley ( 631154 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:26PM (#48511721)

      Well you answered your own question there, people want new shiny. Advertising is waaaaaay too effective on some people.

      I think it's good that students got around the restrictions and are doing things they weren't intended to do. As the old saying goes, you don't learn to hack, you hack to learn.

      • Well you answered your own question there, people want new shiny. Advertising is waaaaaay too effective on some people.

        and let me guess, you are one of those people, smarter than average, upon which advertising has no effect? thank god for people like you that can tell us what to do.

        the article doesn't give the cost of the iPad, but educational institutions don't pay retail. that, and the $1B included upgrades to networking infrastructure to support the devices, which would have been required no matter what.

        while certainly shiny, iPads are pretty capable devices that can run applications for just about anything. they are ea

    • by saccade.com ( 771661 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:29PM (#48511745) Homepage Journal
      +1. Our kids' middle school also jumped on the iPad bandwagon. For the most part, the kids hated it. The iPads didn't displace any textbooks, so it was 2 lbs of extra deadweight in their backpacks (tablet+mandatory case & keyboard). It was a source of stress, because on the rare occasions they were actually used in class, you got marked down if your iPad wasn't charged. Assignments still had be printed out and turned in on paper, so a separate PC/Mac was still required. The tablets were supposedly locked down to prevent loading games, etc. but tech-savvy students usually found work-arounds. And some of the edu-ware screw-ups were truly appalling - like the "spelling test" app that didn't disable the iOS dictionary feature. Fortunately, the high-school principals are saner. Quote one: "No, I won't bring tech like tablets into the school just because it's new shiny. It really has to fulfill a serious purpose or solve real problems". Amen.
    • Because people offering grants are only interested in "new-shiny" not ordinary books and teachers and people voting for school budgets are only interested in "new-shiny" and not ordinary books and teachers.

      Schools have to pursue the money that is offered with the hope that they can turn a bit into something useful.

    • I can't understand why schools are in such a massive rush to buy iPads before they've even figured out how to use them, and where they fit into the curriculum.

      Because it's easier than thinking.

      And because more kids can be taught to use iPads than can be taught to appreciate literature or mathematics. More "fair" that way, you see.

    • My wife is a teacher, she uses her publicly funded iPad for Facebook and recipes. I'd much rather they gave every teacher a guitar instead.
    • My beef with the iPads is that since they lack a physical keyboard, kids aren't going to learn to type on them. At least with cheap laptops like Chromebooks, there's a crappy physical keyboard and not just a touch interface.
  • by brxndxn ( 461473 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:20PM (#48511673)
    This is what the FBI should be doing with our taxpayer money instead of going after individual software pirates or trying to push for easier backdoors into consumer devices. Teachers often get handed expensive devices that they don't really need - and they get denied funding on simple things like books, crayons, and copies. Meanwhile, teachers get paid shit and county officials get paid 3-5x as much.. The FBI should be cracking down on these corrupt jackasses.
  • by senatorpjt ( 709879 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:22PM (#48511683)

    That comes out to $1538.46 per iPad, in case you were too lazy to figure it out and checked the comments to see if it was already done.

    • by TWX ( 665546 )
      buh-buh-buh-configuring! That's it! It costs that much to pay for having them all programmed!

      That's why it's so expensive!
    • talk about too lazy. did you even look at TFA?

      "To date, the district has spent $70 million on the project, purchasing a total of 90,713 devices."

      that works out to $771.66 / device, which is pretty good considering it includes the network infrastructure, device administration, and software costs.

    • Ouch. I hope that includes textbook licensing.

      $300 for the iPad
      $150 for insurance on said iPad
      $100 server licensing for things like blackboard
      $300 licensing for all the custom apps and control programs
      $200 per-unit cost of training the teachers and administrators on the things, including the back ends.
      $400 cost to license electronic versions of their text books
      etc...

      Still, the sheer cost smacks of some corruption in the selection process.

  • by Megor1 ( 621918 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:25PM (#48511711) Homepage
    How the heck are they spending 1 billion for 650k students? That's $1500 per ipad. If the average class size is 26 that's $39,000 per class. There are so many better ways this money could be spent.
    • I don't think it's even that simple. iPads have some kind of life span and will need replacement. When they're new there shouldn't be too much need to replace them but some will get broken screens and other problems associated with age and use. I wonder what the budget is for repair, maintenance and replacement. And as these iPads are in the system longer this cost is sure to increase annually. It may mean that after some number of years (five?) 100% of them will have been replaced. That initial $1 billion
  • Excuse me but... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Hundreds of students ... found ways to bypass security installations, downloading games and freely surfing the Web."

    "Teachers ... were not properly trained to instruct students with the new technology."

    It sounds to me, like the children didn't *need* to be instructed, as they found some other pretty good uses for them, above and beyond what the teachers could ever hope to instruct them on. Unless by "instruct" they meant, how to curtail children's exploratory curiosity and make them fall in line, then sur

  • by DERoss ( 1919496 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @09:29PM (#48511735)

    The iPads were distributed without any planning about accountability. No one knew who would be responsible if an iPad were lost. (Without a parent's approval, the minor student could not be held legally responsible.) No one knew who paid for repairs. No one knew what was to happen to the iPad when the student moved to a different school district. No one even knew how the iPads would be used within the curricula.

    For 8 years, I was an elected school board member in a quite small but high-performing school district. At the closest, we are about 1 mile from the Los Angeles Unified School District. Ours is a rather affluent community. We do not give our students personal electronics. We make PCs available in our high school library, which also serves as a public library where adults can also use PCs.

    • by Pumpkin Tuna ( 1033058 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @10:23PM (#48511979)
      Good points. I'm a former classroom teacher whose job now is to help integrate technology into the classroom. We do it slowly, deliberately and with a lot of thinking and planning. We never roll out anything to every kid at once. We study, pilot, review, pilot again if needed and then implement. When I first heard about LA's plan, I was horrified. It was too big, too fast, and not well planned. It was doomed to fail, and at the time, I figured that the fix was in, probably with Pearson. They scare me. Technology in the classroom should be used to create, to collaborate, to innovate. Instead, Pearson and other companies like them want to use it to drill and kill while making a mint off of taxpayer dollars.
  • Was Deasy's ego justification. He actually started well when he pushed teacher accountability, then it went downhill fast. The iPad decision was bad enough; forget the botched roll out and the you-never-get-fired for buying $INDUSTRY_LEADER procurement. Then there was teachers serving breakfast to kids in class and finally the MiSiS debacle that finally forced him out. One of the few times one could agree w/the teacher's union.
    • How exactly is Apple an industry leader? They dont hold a majority in any of the markets they are in.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I think they meant the Fashion Industry, not the IT Industry. Their hardware sales far exceeds the revenue from, for instance, Coach handbag sales.

      • by g01d4 ( 888748 )
        Didn't think I needed to bother with links. Here's one [fool.com] :

        it's clear that the major players in the K-12 market today are Apple, an ascendant Google, and Microsoft, which has only shown hints of its strategy for the market segment.

        Here's another [govtech.com] :

        Apple is still the main and dominant player in the [education] market

        The software side was Pearson. LAUSD is now allowing Chromebook purchases.

  • It was a great idea but the fundamental issues barring it from being successful were completely ignored. Organized Labor always wants training and work studies to be completed and approved before anything gets rolled out. I've dealt with this working with Airlines and trust me, you don't change work rules or add tools to the environment without Union buy-in. The training issue keeps coming up and to be fair, the support structure and training should have been thought out well before the first tablets were

    • Re:Modern Problems (Score:4, Insightful)

      by turbidostato ( 878842 ) on Tuesday December 02, 2014 @11:01PM (#48512165)

      "It was a great idea"

      Why and how?

      "Organized Labor always wants training and work studies to be completed and approved before anything gets rolled out."

      You prefer your children to be taught by untrained people using untested methods?

      "I've dealt with this working with Airlines and trust me, you don't change work rules or add tools to the environment without Union buy-in. "

      In other words, you don't get to change work rules on heavier-that-air flying machines without buy-in from those that operate said machines into the air? Nonsense, I claim, great nonsense!

      "You've now given 10s of thousands of tablets to kids so they can watch youporn all day. Congratulations LA Unified School District."

      And then again, how and why was this a great idea?

      • I think putting cutting technology into the hands of students is a great idea. The caveat is that they are mature enough to understand how to take care of it and use it. Kids nowadays are much more advanced than we'd like to think and have access to things both good and bad that I never had when I was growing up. Getting in front of it and leveraging this for educational purposes was a laudable cause.

        How do unions equate to an educated workforce? You can also be an outstanding teacher and not be part of

  • This was clearly what was going to happen, from the beginning. I think I got modded troll for suggesting it was a bad idea way back when. lol

    The only place a school should have a computer that students have access to is in the computer lab (or other classes that would require them like typing or whatever) Sure, there should be classes that prepare students for the rudiments of computer use in case they don't have a computer at home. But when it comes to the rudiments of what should be taught in highschool:

  • Didn't this same type of thing happen with Apple in New Hampshire back in the 80s? The state bought all the schools Apple computers on a no compete bid.
  • Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't find out how these iPads were connected to the Internet or even if they are connected. Do they use WiFi as well as Wireless telephony or just WiFi? If the latter, though most folks have WiFi at home, some do not. So do the students need to be near a hot spot to get school work done or is Internet connection unnecessary for educational use? If the iPads have Wireless connection then the cost of the contract with telephony carrier is an extra cost and who pays for the use bey
  • These ipads smack of the same mindset that too many people have about losing weight. They don't want to work for it.

    Teaching kids these days is tough. Parents are doing less so schools are expected to do more.

  • Some corporate entity must have made some rather significant Federal-level campaign contributions in order to trigger this level of concern....
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable. -- Thomas Jefferson

Working...