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Earth NASA

The World Lost an Oklahoma-Sized Area of Forest In 2013, Satellite Data Show 143

merbs writes Oklahoma spans an area in the American South that stretches across almost 70,000 square miles. That's almost exactly the same area of global forest cover that was lost in a single year. High resolution maps from Global Forest Watch, tapping new data from a partnership between the University of Maryland and Google, show that 18 million hectares (69,500 square miles) of tree cover were lost from wildfires, deforestation, and development the year before last. The maps were created by synthesizing 400,000 satellite images collected by NASA's Landsat mission.
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The World Lost an Oklahoma-Sized Area of Forest In 2013, Satellite Data Show

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  • All of those losses of forest are very different:

    * After wildfires, trees naturally re-grow.

    * Some deforestation is replaced with new trees, but not all.

    * After development, trees are usually planted - sometimes where there used to be no trees. What is the net gain/loss of trees across ALL development, not just development taking place in a forest...

    To say nothing of; what is the natural level of variation in forest year to year? From wildfires alone you would think there would be a substantial amount.

    Pre

    • by flaming error ( 1041742 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @10:40PM (#49395749) Journal

      RTFA:
      "The World Resource Institute, which coordinates Global Forest Watch, notes that the loss is both of the permanent, human-driven varietyâ"razing for agriculture and developmentâ"and the cyclical; from fires, logging, harvesting, and natural tree death. In the case of the latter, forests can take decades to be restored. In the former, they are gone for good"

      • DRTFA (Score:4, Insightful)

        by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @11:18PM (#49395899)

        ...notes that the loss is both of the permanent, human-driven varietyÃ"razing for agriculture and developmentÃ"and the cyclical; from fires, logging, harvesting, and natural tree death.

        So yes, I did read that, which it was exactly what led me to wonder what the breakout was of each of those things. If it's primarily natural cyclical loss that will be restored why should I freak out again?

        • So yes, I did read that, which it was exactly what led me to wonder what the breakout was of each of those things. If it's primarily natural cyclical loss that will be restored why should I freak out again?

          And natural cyclical loss may not be the primary cause currently in the TFA. However, the TFA goes further and states that natural cyclical loss could become a primary cause if this deforestation process with the help of humans keeps going on.

          From TFA

          Scientists expect wildfires to become more frequent as warmer temperatures afflict forested regions.

          In other words, yes we should concern about deforestation on natural cyclical loss even though it is currently not the primary cause if less forest causes warmer temperature.

    • According to TFA, most of the loss was to natural wildfires, especially in Canada and Russia. But TFA doesn't say what a "normal" amount of wildfires is, and whether 2013 had more or less than normal, or even whether the total amount of deforestation is going up, or down. Factoids should have context. This a a good example of bad journalism.

      • by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki@nosPaM.gmail.com> on Friday April 03, 2015 @02:06AM (#49396283) Homepage

        To be honest here in Canada we need massive wildfires to clean up the pine beetle problem. The wood can be used, usually in chipboard or paper products as long as the tree isn't fully rotten among other problems. When I was driving out through western canada a couple of years back it was a serious problem, and if you want to see what happens when a wildfire plus pine beetle infestation can do to an area, look at the slave lake fire. The fire was deliberately set, but the forest in the area is infested with pine beetles which have caused massive die offs with the trees, basically making it a perfect situation.

        Anyway, once a place is burned out, harvested, and so on we plant new trees there anyway. The forestry industry here is amazingly good at creating an entire harvest, burn, plant cycle. Not forgetting that we have laws on the books that companies that harvest(anything whether it be trees, oil, oilsands, coal, etc) have to by law set aside funds for restoration. The government oversees the funds to ensure that enough is being put aside.

        • by dasunt ( 249686 )

          Anyway, once a place is burned out, harvested, and so on we plant new trees there anyway. The forestry industry here is amazingly good at creating an entire harvest, burn, plant cycle.

          I've walked through tree farms. They are about as close to a natural forest as a field of wheat is to a prairie.

          • by spauldo ( 118058 )

            True, but it's a whole lot better than clearcutting forests.

          • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

            I've walked through tree farms. They are about as close to a natural forest as a field of wheat is to a prairie.

            That's great, but I wasn't talking about a tree farm. Those are something else fundamentally different aren't they. Rather I was talking about removing existing sections of forest and replanting.

            Let me show you an example of a coal mine. [imgur.com] That chunk of hill, or I should say remains of mountain to the right in the image? That was a coal strip mine 30 years ago. The entire town that's in the image? That was also in the middle of the coal strip mine.

            • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

              Oh, and if you want some more pictures feel free to let me know. I've got a dozen or so more. I'm not being snide or anything, but the way things are here in Canada with resource extraction are fundamentally different compared to many other countries, because we *are* a resource extraction country and know the benefits of restoring the environment when we're done stripping out whatever we need to.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by pspahn ( 1175617 )

      After wildfires, trees naturally re-grow.

      They will eventually, but in the amount of time it takes for them to regrow, drastic environmental impacts may happen which destroy their habitat and make it no longer a fit for that particular plant. A simple example would be mountain flooding after a wildfire. When conifers burn, they will leave a sheet of wax on top of the dirt. When snow runoff season begins (or there are heavy rains, as seen in Colorado in 2013) the ground is not as good at sponging up the moisture and releasing it slowly down-river ov

      • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @11:11PM (#49395861)

        They will eventually, but in the amount of time it takes for them to regrow, drastic environmental impacts may happen which destroy their habitat

        Forests are very optimized to handle fires, because fire is a natural occurrence that forests must deal with. Over time, some forests even require fire to thrive (like bristlecone pines which use the heat from fires to activate seeds in cones).

        The main problem with fires is if there has (ironically) been too much prevention, then there is a lot of dead undergrowth and the fire burns hotter than normal.

        So, again, which is it? Were these fires that have been monitored normal forest fires, that the landscape will deal with? Or were they more harmful for some reason?

        Can you begin to see the feedback loop?

        Again, the feedback loop is part of a natural process.

        I'm not sure I understand their definition of "deforestation"

        Great question also. Does it include pines killed from pine beetles for example?

        Do you think that might be related to the increasing number of things that are totally fucked on our planet?

        Things are always changing an environmentally we (meaning the Earth) are a LOT better off now than we were back in the 60s/70s for example. Especially when the Soviets were in their heyday they were absolutely a massive force for destruction we probably will not see the like of again. The stuff going on these days is really pretty minimal in comparison, which is why some eco-groups try to drum up fear, because they care more about maintaining funding than they do the environment.

        • Things are always changing an environmentally we (meaning the Earth) are a LOT better off now than we were back in the 60s/70s for example. Especially when the Soviets were in their heyday they were absolutely a massive force for destruction we probably will not see the like of again. The stuff going on these days is really pretty minimal in comparison, which is why some eco-groups try to drum up fear, because they care more about maintaining funding than they do the environment.

          Citation needed.
          "The stuff g

        • Again, the feedback loop is part of a natural process.

          I'll bet a dollar that if I go back through your posting history I can find you arguing against basing arguments on what is and is not natural.

          Things are always changing an environmentally we (meaning the Earth) are a LOT better off now than we were back in the 60s/70s for example. Especially when the Soviets were in their heyday they were absolutely a massive force for destruction we probably will not see the like of again.

          Ha! The Soviets are a mere blip compared to modern industrialism as a whole.

          • Natural isn't always good. It is not artificial. A natural process typically has been going on for a long time.

            Therefore, if a natural process permanently destroys forests, we'd have to wonder why we still have forests. It would seem that the natural fire cycle keeps forests very roughly stable, over time. Therefore, it's useful to know how much deforestation is caused by human (and irreversible) causes and how much by natural (and presumably reversible) causes.

    • Why is it that your reaction, SuperKendall, is knee jerk "it must be okay"? Was it the "forest" part of the article?

      Hmm. Forest? Forest == Tree. Tree == Tree hugger. Tree hugger == hippie. Hippie == those fucking fucks I'm supposed to hate.

      Fucking libtards.

      The losses of forests must be due to some natural variation in the solar cycles and phases of the moon, i.e., it is good for humanity and good for the Free Market.

      • Why is it that your reaction, SuperKendall, is knee jerk "it must be okay"?

        I didn't say it was OK, I said "Is it OK?" Because they didn't give us enough information to know; they just want us to panic. Why is it that you seem to think panicking is the most appropriate response to anything?

        I myself in fact do more for the environment than you probably ever will. I do trail cleanups, plant trees, and generally try to help the environment in whatever ways I can, in person and through donations. I'll bet al

        • by itzly ( 3699663 ) on Friday April 03, 2015 @02:46AM (#49396351)

          Why is it that you seem to think panicking is the most appropriate response to anything?

          You're the only one talking about panicking.

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          you're the only one talking about panicking, though you try to project it on us.

          and fires are not simply "ok" just because they are part of the natural processes in some forests. too much fire is still a bad thing, just as too little can be.

          and you really really need to understand that not every forest is like the redwood forests of California and reacts to wildfire in the same way.

    • by itzly ( 3699663 ) on Friday April 03, 2015 @02:38AM (#49396345)

      Pretty much any time nowadays someone wants you to panic, you should look very closely at the message they are trying to sell you.

      I just see some people stating some things they've measured. Not sure why you feel you should panic.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      you dumbasses are reproducing faster than the planet you live on can support you.
      in fact, you've long since past the population count that your planet can support.
      you're now on a rapid global resource munching collapse that is unstoppable because
      both collectively and individually you will not stop consuming.
      therefore all that is in the future for you, your children, and so on down the years
      is a vast global wasteland of famine, war, and pestilence.
      STUPID HUMANS.

    • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday April 03, 2015 @06:56AM (#49396677) Homepage Journal

      To say nothing of; what is the natural level of variation in forest year to year? From wildfires alone you would think there would be a substantial amount.

      Some of the first laws on the books in California were prohibition of setting fires, for use against natives. They set controlled burns every year which kept the understory clear and the forests healthy. But other natives set fires to clear land for Bison. The landscape of pre-America America was very much deliberately created by peoples who had, after all, some 20,000 years to transform the continent.

      Pretty much any time nowadays someone wants you to panic, you should look very closely at the message they are trying to sell you.

      And any time someone wants to hand-wave away economic impact, same thing.

    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )
      You have missed a critical point.

      All of those losses of forest are very different:

      Of course they are the question about the loss is whether there is habitat loss or not.

      * After wildfires, trees naturally re-grow.

      The issue here is the increasing intensity of wildfires and bushfires as global temperatures rise and forests dry out.

      Fire is generally a welcome component of the functioning of some types of forests, like bushland, burning off old growth and releasing minerals back into the soil, burning seed

    • Pretty much any time nowadays someone wants you to panic,

      Pretty much everyone in our times knows that your stupid questions (pseudo sceptism) is just plain stupid.
      For starters: the word lost implies that it was not replaced with new trees.

      Under what rock did you live the last 30 years that you seem never to have heard about the world wide deforestation?

    • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

      -not all trees naturally regrow after wildfires. many forests after a wildfire take decades to regenerate, assuming they ever do, as they go through the various stages of development again. wildfires in Oklahoma cause a forest to die. then grasses move in, then brush, and slowly trees, and after 20-40 years you have a forest again. that's a far different cycle than a forest of redwood trees which are adapted to fire, and actually need it for theirs seeds, and the fire clears out underbrush but leaves many o

    • After development, trees are usually planted - sometimes where there used to be no trees. What is the net gain/loss of trees across ALL development, not just development taking place in a forest...

      A forest is an ecosystem, not just a bunch of trees.

  • In other news.... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @10:18PM (#49395651)

    An Australian-led analysis of satellite data has found the amount of carbon sequestered in plants has risen by almost four billion tonnes since 2003, reflecting a surge in the biomass of global flora — possibly the first such increase since the Industrial Revolution..........

    http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.... [weeklytimesnow.com.au]

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Both reference the same work by the same person, even with select quotes. The one claiming a loss has data, the one claiming a gain doesn't even have a source.

  • by pspahn ( 1175617 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @10:19PM (#49395655)

    I don't understand how you can label Canada as losing all that forestation without mentioning MPB and other outbreaks which are on the rise.

    Do they not realize that many of those forest fires wouldn't have happened outbreaks were less severe? This is ignoring the wildfire suppression that happened in the first place which contributed to the destruction being seen in the last few years.

    Interesting to think that suppressing wildfires might actually contribute to climate change.

  • Oklahoma was a tall grass prairie 150 years ago, with very few trees. Now there is considerable forestation. Much of this is due to human activity (for example, tree seeds being spread through cattle poop when being driven to market). Should we cut them all down and plant grass?

    So is this the new metric of large square footage, the way Libraries of Congress have become?

    • by pspahn ( 1175617 )

      Also, other than the hail and possibility of a tornado, it's a damn fine place to grow nursery stock. A lot of nursery stock in Colorado comes from Oklahoma (and other nearby tough climates for growing, I'm sure, I can only speak for CO).

    • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Friday April 03, 2015 @12:07AM (#49396023) Journal

      The USA in general has more forest now then it did 100 years ago. The first industrial revolution was really hard on trees. For example, In NorCal there is a town called Guerneville. Next to the Safeway you can read a historical marker that explains it was once called "stumptown". Reason? Redwoods cut down to make railroad ties and other structures. Guerneville is now surrounded by 2nd growth redwood. It looks great, even if you know that it's not the amazing beauty that it must have been before.

      • by Alomex ( 148003 )

        The USA in general has more forest now then it did 100 years ago.

        Not quite:

          Forest area has been relatively stable since 1907-- US Department of Agriculture.

        It has 300 million hectares of forest plus/minus 6m over the last 100 years.

      • The USA in general has more forest now then it did 100 years ago.

        Are you measuring by area, by volume, or by mass? We're only really interested in that last measurement.

        For example, In NorCal there is a town called Guerneville.

        Yeah, they make beer there.

        Next to the Safeway you can read a historical marker that explains it was once called "stumptown".

        Here comes the fun part.

        Reason? Redwoods cut down to make railroad ties and other structures. Guerneville is now surrounded by 2nd growth redwood. It looks great, even if you know that it's not the amazing beauty that it must have been before.

        Looks are only a highway boundary deep. Mature redwoods actually grow faster and thus fix more carbon per acre than young redwoods. So your little story about how great Guerneville looks is really quite illustrative both of how dire the situation is, and how pathetic is the public's willingness to pretend everything is A-OK.

        Let me tell you a little story

        • Don't make shit up. The central valley doesn't have enough rain to support redwoods. Never did.

          • Don't make shit up. The central valley doesn't have enough rain to support redwoods. Never did.

            Guess what? Forests change weather patterns.

    • Oklahoma was a tall grass prairie 150 years ago, with very few trees. Now there is considerable forestation. Much of this is due to human activity

      The natives burned down trees to make more grassland for bison. Guess what? Oklahoma being a tall grass prairie is due at least in part to deliberate human activity.

  • by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Thursday April 02, 2015 @10:45PM (#49395771)

    I live near some of this area. There has been no fire or logging in the area and yet it is marked pink.

    I'm also seeing a lot of areas that are pink that don't seem very likely to be involved in logging or forest fires. I mean, look at rural alaska.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Pink only indicates change. Forests can change without human intervention you know.

      • I don't think they have changed though... I mean, the forest is on average as dense as ever. A given tree is going to fall over now and then... but that's normal. The mushrooms go nuts on it... turn the tree to a rich mulch... and lots of saplings grow up in its place. That's a healthy forest.

    • Agreed, Looking at the map around where I live. Almost all the pink is the result of fires the last few years. And it takes a while but those trees are growing back. Intentional, accidental or natural wildland fires, they are all recovering nicely, the new growth thriving on the ash enriched soils. It will be decades before the end stage forests that burned return to that point but the natural process is proceeding nicely.
  • I thought it was gong to be the best article ever when i skimmed the title: "The World Lost.... Oklahoma.... Satellite Data Show"
  • If there's more than one, I suspect I might know what happened.

  • Are we talking metric Oklahoma's or should I be converting this into American football fields?

    • by spauldo ( 118058 )

      Use furlongs for large measurements, rods and chains for small ones.

      Metric? Is that one of those fancy newfangled yards?

  • I read TFA, and looked as some of the links. I have no idea what the overall situation is, and these sites certainly do not provide the information. Just as an example, I found various maps that document forest losses. Areas of the world where forest cover is increasing (most of Europe, for example) are simply shown as "no losses". In other words, they show forests that were cut down, or that burned, but they do not show newly forested areas, or forests that have recovered from burning.

    With this kid of bias

  • Oklahoma-sized area, hectares, square miles?
    For people using non-retarded units, this area is a bit smaller than 60 angstromkiloparsecs

  • Being suspicious of virtutally all "science" reporting I am left wondering - is the figure reported "net" loss after accounting for areas where there was forest growth?

  • China Helps Reverse Global Forest Loss, With a Little Bit of Luck [natureworldnews.com]

    According to a recent study the total amount of vegetation in the world has gone up over the last decade. This is mainly due to tree planting efforts in China, changing rainfall patterns allowing more growth in new areas and (probably) the increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    The not so good side of things is that the plants aren't taking up all the extra CO2, it's still going up just at a somewhat slower rate, and if rainfall patter
    • This is mainly due to tree planting efforts in China, changing rainfall patterns allowing more growth in new areas and (probably) the increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

      It's probably not because of the increased CO2, because most plants can't make use of much more CO2 than they get already. In order to do so, they'd have to receive more energy from sunlight, so that they could do more photosynthesis — but most plants have evolved to make use of a certain range of insolation, and they don't function correctly or even die if they get much more than they're used to. CO2 enrichment is a thing, but it doesn't work on all plants, and it's coupled with artificial lighting.

      • by Daetrin ( 576516 )
        That's the long way of putting it, but yes. If the rainfall patterns stay the same as they are now vegetation will continue to grow in those same areas and the carbon will (on average) remain out of circulation. If the rainfall patterns continue to change the new vegetation in the affected areas won't get enough water and will die/not regrow in the new season and the carbon will quickly return to the environment. Like i said, the not so good side of things.
  • Talk about geo-engineering mind-fuck. The tools to do it are right in place, just open your eyes: Trees, grasses, shrubs, best suited for the job and well tested for eons.

    What is actually happening?

    Humanity and it's internal power structures are destroying them.

    Maybe the human DNA needs a patch from those plants to get healty?

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