Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
United Kingdom Government Transportation

London Deploys Cycle Superhighways Despite "Old Men In Limos" 258

Posted by timothy from the varied-means-to-varies-ends dept.
dkatana writes: London's mayor Boris Johnson had to fight its way through stiff resistance to the new Cycle Superhighways to see his vision of a cycling capital become reality.

Detractors included the Taxi Drivers Association (LTDA), which threatened legal action, but ultimately backed away when it became apparent that a judicial review of TfL's plans would simply delay rather than stop the new routes. Property firm Canary Wharf Group had also been vocal, producing an anonymous briefing (which it later acknowledged) that called the planned route "extremely damaging for London." An unnamed borough was threatened with powers to seize control of their roads if cycle superhighways were blocked.

Now the two new segregated bike paths will crisscross the city and open up speedy, safe cycling that will ease pollution and traffic for everyone, non-cyclists, too, Boris Johnson says.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

London Deploys Cycle Superhighways Despite "Old Men In Limos" More

London Deploys Cycle Superhighways Despite "Old Men In Limos"

Comments Filter:

  • wish this existed in silicon valley (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @08:42PM (#50320037)

    I drive on heavily congested roads for about 12 miles. My car says I average 22 mph....
    If there was a bicycle highway that was uninterrupted for this distance, I could save stress by riding a bike rather than a car, with little cost in time.

    • Re:wish this existed in silicon valley (Score:4, Interesting)

      by quenda ( 644621 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @10:07PM (#50320351)

      If there was a bicycle highway that was uninterrupted for this distance, I could save stress by riding a bike rather than a car, with little cost in time.

      Looking at google maps, I see there is a rail line running the length of the valley. That would be a the obvious place to build a cycleway - would that help?
      There are already decent bike lines alongside sections of the line. Could the rail reserve be used?

      Or could you combine bike & train, either folding bike on train, or keep a bike locked up at each end of your commute (unless you can park a car at your local station). Is that a good option in California?

    • Boris Johnson is an odd one - on one hand a typical, Eton Tory bully, on the other hand clever and original; a highly unusual combination. I would never vote Conservative, but I rather like him. And his ideas for cycling are spot on.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      22mph is fast, average 'rush hour' traffic speed in London is 9-12mph, my average London cycling commute speed is plenty more - about 15-17mph.

  • I don't understand the opposing argument. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Joe Gillian ( 3683399 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @08:52PM (#50320099)

    The article states that the London Taxi Drivers Association and a couple of other groups are against the bike lanes because they believe the bike lanes will increase congestion - yet the article also states that the bike lanes are entirely or almost entirely segregated from normal car traffic. I just don't see how those two things meet up. The real reason is obvious: that more people riding bikes means fewer people taking taxis and other forms of paid transportation, but they could have at least come up with a better argument.

    • The street will become half as wide (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:00PM (#50320121)

      They appear to have be creating these segregated lanes by halving the size of existing streets.

      London is crowded. There is not a whole lot of room to build infrastructure. You can't move the buildings back 3 meters to make room for a bike lane, you have to make the existing street narrower.

      If you halve the size of a busy street, you will absolutely increase congestion.

      • Unless you also substantially reduce the number of cars on the road at the same time, which is entirely plausible.

      • Re:The street will become half as wide (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MacTO ( 1161105 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:34PM (#50320253)

        That depends upon how many people choose to cycle. Bikes take considerably less space both on the road and for parking. In the long term, it may also makes the length of trips for both cyclists and motorists since businesses will find it desirable to be closer to their workers and consumers. Of course, all of that depends upon uptake. Only time will tell.

        It is also worth considering that "halve the size of a busy street" is also incredibly misleading. Considering that you can support bidirectional bike traffic in less space than a single lane for motor vehicles and that bike lanes tend to be along corridors (rather than on every street), you are dedicating significantly less than 50% of the infrastructure to bikes. Indeed, it would be surprising if the percentage of the infrastructure dedicated to cycling would be anywhere close to the percentage of the population that cycle.

        • Considering that you can support bidirectional bike traffic in less space than a single lane for motor vehicles

          This is precisely why I dislike the bike lanes in a London. I'll wait and see how these new cross London routes pan out, but I suppose I'll stick with the roads.

          The lanes as you describe it are not wide enough. You can't overtake and believe me there are a lot of very slow cyclists in London, and I'm not even referring to the amateurs and tourists wobbling around on Boris bikes.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by MacTO ( 1161105 )

            Vancouver (Canada) has a few bidirectional bike lanes, and I agree that they are a bit problematic. That's particularly true when making left turns.

            As for overtaking other cyclists, just do what you would do on a pathway (or as an automobile would do on a side street or highway): ensure the oncoming lane is clear and pass. Unfortunately, there is not enough bike traffic to justify a passing lane.

            For the most part, I prefer riding on roads without bike lanes. But I'm an experienced cyclist who would much

            • Unfortunately, there is not enough bike traffic to justify a passing lane.

              Then there's not enough bike traffic to justify a fully separated path, either, not where it has to be taken away from the space normally used for cars.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by amiga3D ( 567632 )

        The damn things are all over the road anyway. This way they have their own lane so you don't have to poke along behind them as they weave along their way. I have to say as a car driver, any thing that gets the bikes off the road onto their own lane so I don't have to worry about crushing someone is a good thing.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Archfeld ( 6757 )

          Wish I had mod points... Where I live in the SF Bay area there are bike lanes on nearly every street, excluding the freeways which are off limits anyways, the problem is the bikes won't stick to one medium. They go from Peds on the side-walk, to bikes in the protected space, to deciding to share the space my car is CURRENTLY occupying within 30 feet without a pause or even a look many times. I like riding my bike, and if my employer would provide a shower, and someplace to put my bike I would ride often, bu

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Locando ( 131600 )

          I don't disagree with your opinion, but why do you say "the damn things" about a vehicle used as a serious mode of transport by thousands of people in any given city? If this is the kind of casual disrespect you show people who do things a way you disapprove of, why do you feel you have the right to have your choices respected in turn?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by amiga3D ( 567632 )

            I say "damn things" because when they're in the roadway they are a constant nuisance. It's frustrating to be motoring at 50mph and suddenly slow to 15 for a half a mile because someone decided to ride their bike on a major roadway and it's impossible to safely pass them. "Damn things" is a sight better than what I say then.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gwolf ( 26339 )

        ...Unless, by adding a bike lane, you take current cars out out of the city center. Each cyclist that uses the path is one less motorist. Less congestion.

    • Re:I don't understand the opposing argument. (Score:4, Informative)

      by OhPlz ( 168413 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:07PM (#50320141)

      They're probably thinking that segregated lanes will mean fewer traffic lanes that cabs can use, therefore congestion. Space is limited and those new lanes will have to go somewhere. I live on the other side of the Atlantic, but when bike lanes are added in my area, it usually comes at the expense of at least one "regular" traffic lane, sometimes one in each direction. I'm all for cycle lanes though, this is just my guess on what they're thinking.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      When you close massive amounts of lane-miles, then of course your decision to massively increase congestion will increase congestion. Of course the bike riders want that to happen. They want to make the lives of those of us that have to drive for a living here even more of a living hell. They hate us.

    • I figure the taxi drivers see 'anything' as a threat and thus oppose it.

      Still, looking at the graphic, they're turning a space that could be a 4 lane road into 2.

      Still, more bicycles SHOULD equate to more taxi rides - more people ditch their cars for bicycles 'except' for xyz, which then logically leads to more cab rides.

      Self driving cars should be what they're really worried about.

    • The article states that the London Taxi Drivers Association and a couple of other groups are against the bike lanes because they believe the bike lanes will increase congestion - yet the article also states that the bike lanes are entirely or almost entirely segregated from normal car traffic. I just don't see how those two things meet up.

      Because they take away lanes from cars to build them? Because they could add a lane for cars if they have room to build a separated cycle path? Because Boris Johnson's bus lanes are horribly underutilized, and in fact did cause additional congestion?

  • Foolproof (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lucm ( 889690 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @10:01PM (#50320337)

    Of course the plan includes building locker rooms for all those people who will now get to the office covered in sweat, rain, snow and whatnot.

    Otherwise it's the entire office that will smell like a locker room.

    • Re:Foolproof (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdot@@@hackish...org> on Friday August 14, 2015 @10:47PM (#50320477)

      Yeah, most offices these days have showers. I think all new ones are required to.

      The UK isn't particularly hot though, so you'll likely sweat only on the three days a year of what passes for summer. Rain can be dealt with by simply wearing waterproof clothing, like people do in the Netherlands and Denmark, both drizzly countries that have long since figured out how to set up bike infrastructure.

      • It's not the heat, it's the humidity, and UK is a lot hillier than Denmark or (especially) the Netherlands. Cycling in the latter is almost effortless compared to UK, apart from the Norfolk Broads where it is equally flat and the biggest slope you'll encounter is in a supermarket car park thus requiring a 4 wheel drive SUV for the 1 in 75 incline...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hadlock ( 143607 )

      I commute to work about 4 miles each way by bicycle, in Dallas, in August. It was 104 here last Friday, and ~85F by the time I arrived to the office, but I don't sweat too much getting to the office. I wear typical business-casual riding in to the office, leave my shirt + undershirt untucked, and unbutton the top button, then tuck everything in when I arrive. I use a fan for when I first sit down but most people aren't even aware I cycle to work. The ride home on the other hand is a bit warmer. In London it

      • I commute to work about 4 miles each way by bicycle, in Dallas, in August. It was 104 here last Friday, and ~85F by the time I arrived to the office, but I don't sweat too much getting to the office.

        I had a coworker like you. I smelled him every time he came to the office.

        • That's the point of having a body odour and a sense of smell?

          I dare say that smells better than male perfume.
          The very idea that all real odors have to be neutered and optionally replaced with a few chemicals is disgusting.
          Even showering everyday isn't really needed much of the time, you can wash feet and face.

          • That's the point of having a body odour and a sense of smell?

            I dare say that smells better than male perfume.

            It doesn't matter what you smell like, if someone can smell you from more than a couple of feet away, you stink.

            I'm a naturally stinky person. I know people don't want to smell me. So I clean myself. And I don't try to go to work on a bicycle when there's no shower available.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MacTO ( 1161105 )

      It depends upon the commute. One of the sites I work at is a 10 minute ride with a small downhill stretch. I'm not covered by sweat, and I doubt that I smell any different than I normally would.

      Another job is a 25 minute ride with a 60 meter high hill at the end. I sweat. Oddly enough though, people only notice when they're uncomfortably close to me. The obvious solution to that is to respect my personal space.

      As for the rain and snow. Dress for the weather. Or do what a lot of cyclists do: bus or dr

      • Or do what a lot of cyclists do: bus or drive during bad weather.

        Buses where I live take nights, Saturday evenings, Sundays, and major holidays off. (Source: fwcitilink.com) Bad weather on a Sunday means you now have to pay for driving lessons (thousands of dollars if your state has adopted mandatory supervised driving), a car (thousands of dollars), parking, fuel, and insurance.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MacTO ( 1161105 )

          Then bike in the rain. I frequently do since the transit in this city is very poor, though not quite as poor as your city.

          I don't drive either, but the majority of adult cyclists do. Hence the suggestion.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      That's stupid. A gentle cycle is as much exertion as a gentle walk. Except you sweat less from the cycle because it takes less energy for a given distance

      A vigorous cycle is as much exertion as a vigorous run.

      There's noting magical about cycling that makes you sweat more.

      • There's noting magical about cycling that makes you sweat more.

        Other than the alternative being a car with an air conditioner in 90+ degree F (32+ degree C) weather.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Alioth ( 221270 )

          This is London we're talking about, further north than the entire continental US. It gets to 90+ about 3 days a year. At morning commute times, it's more like 60 degrees (15C) even on a day that's going to end up hot.

    • Re:Foolproof (Score:4, Insightful)

      by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Saturday August 15, 2015 @04:52AM (#50321217) Journal

      Otherwise it's the entire office that will smell like a locker room.

      No, it actually doesn't work like that. The keen cyclists like to tear around fast and get hot and smelly. I like doing so. Once you have enough people cycling, you get the more normal people. They put about as much effort as walking, only being on a bike it's about 2.5x the speed. Much like normal pedestrians, they arrive at their destinations basically pretty fresh.

      They also tend to ride nice upright bikes which emphasise comfort over speed.

      • Once you have enough people cycling, you get the more normal people. They put about as much effort as walking, only being on a bike it's about 2.5x the speed. Much like normal pedestrians, they arrive at their destinations basically pretty fresh.

        A lot of us are just sweaty people. If we walk, we'll stink. If we bike, we'll stink. Out of all the places I've worked, only one had showers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Alioth ( 221270 )

      Utility riding doesn't mean you have to race around at the speed of Chris Froome.

      Cycling at 9mph takes the same power as walking at 3mph, plus you get a lot more airflow.

  • This concept is referred to in the headline with a direct quote, and yet it's not in the article or the summary. Where are these old men in limos? Did the submitter or editor just invent this quote out of thin air to provide support to a fictitious argument that nobody is making?

    • Re:Where are the old men in limos? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdot@@@hackish...org> on Friday August 14, 2015 @10:37PM (#50320439)

      I was also confused, but from some Googling it looks like it's a phrase that's frequently been used in this particular fight, by supporters of the cycle-route plan, to ridicule opponents of the plan. Possibly okay to assume your reader would recognize the phrase if this were a London newspaper, but on Slashdot less likely.

      The phrase "old men in limos" with acronym "OMILs" appears to have been coined by Chris Boardman [wikipedia.org], an Olympic cyclist, as a riposte to the term MAMIL [wikipedia.org], or "middle-aged man in lycra".

      It was later picked up by Boris Johnson's administration, e.g. here's [road.cc] an article from June in which London's cycling commissioner says,

      "It was at times nightmarishly difficult to manage this, and we saw some absolutely ferocious resistance, kicking and screaming, and we saw a lot more passive resistance, heel digging and foot dragging from whom Olympic cyclist Chris Boardman called Old Men in Limos; you've heard of the MAMILs, those were the OMILs. A lot of objections, which would nearly always start with the words 'Of course I support cycling...'"

    • The phrase "old men in limos" was used by London’s cycling commissioner, Andrew Gilligan quoting Olympic cyclist Chris Boardman: He said: "It was at times nightmarishly difficult to manage this, and we saw some absolutely ferocious resistance, kicking and screaming, and we saw a lot more passive resistance, heel digging and foot dragging from whom Olympic cyclist Chris Boardman called Old Men in Limos; you've heard of the MAMILs, those were the OMILs. A lot of objections, which would nearly always s

  • Amazing (Score:5, Informative)

    by Evtim ( 1022085 ) on Saturday August 15, 2015 @01:23AM (#50320895)

    I did read through the whole tread and I am astounded that so many readers spell doom and gloom for a city that introduces proper bike infrastructure. Distorted reality, eh...

    I have news for you. Let's take the obvious case - the Netherlands. Do you believe the countries exists? Yes? OK, so how come it has not collapsed to the bottom of the economic ladder if businesses cannot deliver their goods, customers cannot go to shops and employees cannot reach their work [all those are claims I found in the tread]? Reality check : FAIL!

    I live in A'dam and work in Delft [bike-train-bike]. I have regular visits for business, medical and personal reasons to Maastricht, Leiden, Njimegen, Eindhoven, Hilversum and Leeuwarden. Check google maps to see what this means. Never owned a car. Never needed a car except when I shop furniture or tons of materials and tools for home renovation [but that can be delivered by the retailer, I can rent a car for a day or ask a friend with a car to help]. Trains and bikes can get you everywhere in this country and I do mean everywhere. You can go between cities [separated bike lanes that go usually through nice scenery double the road network].

    What do I win and what society wins:

    No costs for a car

    1.5 hrs per working day reading books/magazines and meeting people in the train. Nice, clean trains that are used by all segments of society [so you don't have reasons for the old idiotic Clarkson retort that public transport is used only by junkies who will puke on you]. In fact traveling in the morning to the work you meet all the students that go to Leiden and Delft [university centers]. Did I mention the females are more in the NL than the males and the gays are more than the lesbians [there is a shortage of men here]? Hell, for the last nuclear summit in NL where Obama landed with the plane, shook hands with the king and then immediately disappeared in a helicopter [escorted by 2 others and hordes of bikes and cars] - btw, most dutch thought that was ridiculously paranoid, unnecessary and plain rude - the prime minister of Belgium took the train [high-speed line Amsterdam - Brussels - Paris].

    No need for cardio in the gym so I can focus on power training. When I stopped going to the gym for 6 months after I started again the only exercise I could more of compare to before the break was legs [so it helps the power training too]. Because the infrastructure allows me to ride the bike as an exercise as well - very fast with rapid acceleration and braking.

    General health benefits for all cyclists [to mention again those mythical [for /. ers] creatures, called women - any idea how riding a bicycle shapes women's legs. No? Thought so...]. Contemplate what this means on a country scale - MASSIVE saving due to healthier population [lower health cots, higher productivity ect.]

    Environmental benefits [no need to elaborate I hope]

    Convenience. Going out in Amsterdam with a car is idiotic [OK, if you go to the opera with 10 000 euros worth of clothing and a hair-do for 500 you might need a car but I am talking about the 99% here]. It takes me 10-15 min on the bike to go to the hearth of downtown, no need to pay huge costs for parking [if you find available place that is], you can drink [or smoke] and can go back home at any moment in the night independent from any transport.

    Issues:

    Cyclist can be nasty and sometimes dangerous on the road - just like everyone else. No surprises here. To claim that somehow there are more asses among them than the rest of the population is moronic at best [I saw that "argument" here as well]

    What else? Oh, yes - when you arrive at work you stink of sweat [I see this retort often here]. Actually no. Really, really NO. With good hygiene [and diet!!] your smell is barely noticeable and with enough exercise you can bike with decent speed without breaking a sweat. Besides, at work we have this amazing thing, it's called "running hot water" and "a shower". Check it out!

    Less space for ca

    • addendum (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Evtim ( 1022085 ) on Saturday August 15, 2015 @01:33AM (#50320919)

      Small addendum - the bike lanes can [and are] used by senior citizens in those nice little cars that can only go 40km/hr or so. Old folks needs motorized transport sometimes. Would you prefer them to ride regular car and endanger themselves and the others [you know they are more dangerous than the young drivers]?

      Oh, and the lanes are used by small motor bikes [again if you have some health issue that prevents you from cycling]. The pizza delivery guys use them too [those people are in fact the most dangerous participators of the traffic and their behavior should be sanctioned] Electrical motor assisted bikes are on the raise too...those are better since they don't make noise.

    • Really, really very well put. Thank you for posting this.

      - a fellow (albeit North American) cyclist
    • Biking and public transport can be a great way to get around in the Netherlands... but not for everyone. People who live close enough to work to be able to cycle (within reason) are considered by their coworkers to be very fortunate. And trains are great as long as your journey has only one leg; having to change to another train, tram or bus means adding another 10-15 minutes to your journey no matter how short the second leg is. When I commuted from Rotterdam to Rijswijk I used the train. Fantastic, al
    • This may come as a shock, but the climate is different outside of your tiny country.

    • Top Gear pointed out how useless Boris' bus lanes are by showing that they aren't actually used. And they aren't. They carry virtually no buses. They freed up all this capacity for buses, and then forgot to use it. Whoops! Actually, it's worse; they freed up all this capacity for buses, and then forgot, no one wants to use them!

      I hope this is different. I hope these cycle lanes are filled up all the time. But if they aren't, what will you say next?

  • I'm a Londoner, not a big fan of Boris, the product of extreme privilege.

    However the air is polluted in London [point a], many parts are medieval, twisty and narrow [point b], many journeys are a couple of miles [point c] and it's pretty flat in the centre [point d]. It's not flat in Hampstead, Muswell Hill or many places at the edges. So, as they say, two wheels good. People are getting killed by tipper trucks and we need this to encourage people onto cycles.

  • After 200 years of waiting, we can revenge the battle of the nest, and Copenhagenize London!

Slashdot Top Deals

The use of money is all the advantage there is to having money. -- B. Franklin

Close