Another Crowd-funded Drone Project Collapses (bbc.com) 211
An anonymous reader writes: Less than two weeks after we heard about the "robotic dragonfly" project failing, the BBC brings news that an even bigger crowd-funded drone project has given up development as well. The ZANO mini-drone raised a whopping £2.3 million on Kickstarter ($3.5 million), after asking for a mere £125,000 to get off the ground. They were supposed to start delivering drones in June, and a few hundred of them slowly trickled out. In October, they posted a long update detailing their plans for shipping the other ~15,000 drones they had been paid for. Their latest update, posted today, says, "Having explored all options known to us, and after seeking professional advice, we have made the difficult decision to pursue a creditors' voluntary liquidation." This will leave thousands of backers without a drone, despite paying £140 or more apiece.
Follow the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want to invest your money in risky ventures you should expect to lose it.
Don't risk what you cannot afford to lose.
Re: (Score:2)
If you want to invest your money in risky ventures you should expect to lose it.
Trvth. Plus; isn't the space saturated with flying things?
Re:Follow the money (Score:5, Insightful)
Right, it's not an investment.
It's a gamble.
People don't seem to get upset when their lottery tickets don't win. Kickstarter isn't much different.
Re: (Score:3)
Even calling it a gamble is misleading. It is a sort-of donation, that you might get a free gift for later.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
From Kickstarter's point of view there's another G word for it.
Gravytrain
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How can you make $3,500,000 disappear?
Oh please! You're kidding, right [reuters.com]? We can make 8.5 trillion disappear, okay? In fact, multiply that by about 500, and you have the derivatives markets...
Re: (Score:3)
What 'recovery'?
You're not an "investor", you're essentially a "benefactor".
Think of these crowd-sourcing things as giant tip jars. You don't get any guarantees.
Why do people act like these things are any different than throwing change into someone's guitar case?
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Interesting)
it's slightly different, it's a conditional purchase/pre-pay.
i make a pre-payment with the understanding that there's a chance that the venture might completely fail, but also with the understanding that if i don't, collectively i mean, then this item/idea that i find intriguing WILL never materialize.
But if it does succeed, then i am owed this thing that i payed for.
it's a purchase conditioned on them not completely screwing the pooch.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, it's conditional on the parties being able to deliver. And unlike an actual "purchase" you have no recourse if the condition is not met.
Seriously, crowd-funding is a gigantic scam. Think of the thousands of games getting kickstarted right now and now tell me how many kickstarted games have actually seen a final release where people weren't disappointed. I can count them on one hand and still have enough fingers left over to pick my nose.
Re: (Score:2)
it's slightly different, it's a conditional purchase/pre-pay.
This might be what it feels like, but it is not the arrangement caused by giving money to Kickstarter.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it really?
Because I don't think that's what happened; it's far too easy to spend all the money and fail, or have the magic of accounting say you've spent all the money and failed.
You're looking for something which is insured, underwritten, and guaranteed.
I don't think you get any of those things. In fact, judging by the summary, I'd say you don't get that at all.
Having a mission statement and a promise of being sure it will work ... well, good
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do people act like these things are any different than throwing change into someone's guitar case?
I expect it is because the guy with the guitar case isn't promising to give anyone a drone if you put money in his case.
You aren't wrong that people are setting their expectations wrong with kickstarter. The money goes in and the product may or may not ever come out. That's a gamble you take.
Its certainly not really an "investment" because your maximum reward is a consumer product worth roughly what you put in, and you certainly aren't a shareholder of the venture that creates the product.
But kickstarters do have an obligation to make a good faith attempt to deliver on their promise. Its not illegal or even a breach of contract to fail at the attempt. But it would be a breach to simply take the money and walk away or otherwise act fraudulently.
Its clearly a very different proposition than outright charity too.
Re: (Score:2)
When they have a sign that says "I have no money for food" you expect them to buy food with the money you give them. Or "i have no home", you expect they're saving for a bond and rent.
Instead they spend the money you give them on drugs and alcohol.
Re: (Score:2)
Instead they spend the money you give them on drugs and alcohol.
1) You are not affected by their choices in any way.
2) Clearly they are eating something between the drugs and alcohol.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I am affected by their choices in that I wouldn't have given the money knowing that it was going to be misappropriated.
Riiiiight.
The homeless junkie you gave a dollar too... your going to blame HIM, a person with a mental disorder / addiction problem -- for 'misappropriation' of funds when he buys junk?
I'd blame the guy in the mirror for that misappropriation.
Re: (Score:2)
But more importantly, the victim is the person in genuine need who I can no longer help since I have a maximum amount of charity that I can give
So after wresting with your consciousness, you decided to buy a neato app controlled drone with an HD camera instead of donating to charity?
Re: (Score:2)
Your assuming the guy was playing a guitar. And the presence of a guitar case lends some reasonableness to that assumption.
But lots of homeless people have their guitar case out for donations whether htey are playing or not. And some don't even have an instrument.
Re: (Score:2)
Your assuming the guy was playing a guitar. And the presence of a guitar case lends some reasonableness to that assumption.
But lots of homeless people have their guitar case out for donations whether htey are playing or not. And some don't even have an instrument.
Maybe they're begging so they can buy an instrument?
Or someone ripped them off?
Or someone broke it?
Re: (Score:2)
What 'recovery'?
You're not an "investor", you're essentially a "benefactor".
Think of these crowd-sourcing things as giant tip jars. You don't get any guarantees.
Why do people act like these things are any different than throwing change into someone's guitar case?
Not when there's fraudulent misrepresentation involved. The promo video they showed everyone was totally fake.
Re: (Score:3)
Not when there's fraudulent misrepresentation involved. The promo video they showed everyone was totally fake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
doesn't look faked to me.
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)
Not just follow the money. They had NOTHING but a napkin idea at the start, that is how you end up with a guaranteed failure.
Back projects that have real prototypes and real ideas on how to scale up to delivering thousands or tens of thousands. Honestly if any of the people running it was getting more than 100K a year in income from this then they are dirty thieves that need to have their pants set of fire.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They had a demo of what appeared to be a working product. They said it worked. They lied. I want my money back.
Re: (Score:2)
They had a clever bit of video that even then people were calling out as staged, faked, or possibly CG.
Re: (Score:3)
P.T. Barnum had a word for people who find themselves in situations like yours.
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
i guess anything could be faked, but this really doesn't look like it. the video doesn't show anything special for sure, but it seems like proof they at least tried to build a product.
3.5m USD is nothing when it comes to hardware. i don't know much about manufacturing, but i do know it's really, really hard. triple that when it comes to something with moving parts. it's completely plausible that they built a few semi-working prototypes, but taking it to a quality consumer p
Re: (Score:2)
they built flyable drones and built the smartphone app to control it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
i guess anything could be faked, but this really doesn't look like it. the video doesn't show anything special for sure, but it seems like proof they at least tried to build a product.
3.5m USD is nothing when it comes to hardware. i don't know much about manufacturing, but i do know it's really, really hard. triple that when it comes to something with moving parts.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Their original ask was around $175,000. Obviously, since they have yet to produce a product that works anywhere near spec (or that works at all, really), and they've only shipped a few (so no 648k in shipping), have only received a fraction of the parts (there were different runs scheduled for different color schemes) so no 912k for manufacturing), so where is all that money that they haven't spent on shipping and manufacturing?
the answer is "Most of what the campaign made was already earmarked to known costs - each pledge did not make them a lot of money, because what they were doing was expensive!
If the money was earmarked for known costs, and most of those unknown costs hav
Re: (Score:2)
How can you make $3,500,000 disappear?
Ten engineers at silly valley rates for a year, or various other other legitimate ways.
Re: Follow the money (Score:2)
Step 1: kickstarter needs to limit the money. Put a hard cap at (just as an example) 2x the original goal.
Many kick starters end up making so much money, that they are compelled to create a matching product on a scale for which they did not plan. Instead of building a couple hundred drones on a £125,000 budget, they were forced to increase production by an order of magnitude. They simply weren't prepared for production on that scale.
I'd wager that some feature creep found it's way into the
Re:Follow the money (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not how manufacturing works. Minimum funding goal is how many pledges you need to at least overcome your anticipated fixed costs, but there's still a marginal cost associated with fulfilling each individual pledge. When you get 30x the expected number of pledges, that means your variable costs will also be 30x greater. On top of that, if you have to produce 15,000 pieces rather than 500 (say), then your fixed costs also rise as you now have to redesign your product for volume manufacturing, whereas previously your prototype process might have been sufficient.
No, there's not much to see here, just another startup that underestimated the challenges in going from prototype to volume, spent too much money on the transition, and went bust. The backers have my sympathy, but without evidence there's no basis for assuming malfeasance.
Re: Follow the money (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Trying to get something from Kickstarter is a fool's errand. It is not a web store.
Re: (Score:3)
I've had 100% successful delivery from the projects I've backed. Caveat emptor.
You need to do some background research. Treat it more like a speculative investment, not buying widgets from Amazon.
If there's a huge rift between their best prototype demonstration and reality, probably best not to back. If it looks half their funding goal is to cover the special effects budget in the "demo" video, pass that one by...
Re: (Score:2)
Fair enough, there's the evidence of malfeasance then. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with how much money they took in, as GP implied.
Re: (Score:3)
Their variable costs haven't gone up 30x. First, they were ordering bodies in batches, one for each color scheme. They only got one (or maybe two) batches. Same thing with shipping - they haven't shipped the bulk of the orders, so shipping costs are also not an excuse for "no money". Also, if you read their postings, they were still planning on hand-assembling ALL of them, over a period of several months, which is why they said some people would have to wait until February. In other words, they didn't chang
Re: (Score:3)
Have you seen their balance sheets? Their orders? Their setup costs? How much of the raw materials did they already procure? How much did it cost to get their electronics partner tooled up? If not, then on what basis are you making such assertions as though they are fact?
Unless we get to see a financial report, neither you nor I will ever know what happened. If you really care, go get them to open up their financials, but until then all you have is speculation.
Re:Follow the money (Score:5, Informative)
It's a venture with risks; you took the gamble. When banks do this, they want a market analysis, a comprehensive business plan, timeline projections; when people play on Kickstarter, they just throw money in and ignore the disclaimer of no responsibility. I can speak the language of comprehensive project plans and market projections; most folks can't, and wouldn't understand it if you put it in front of them, so what do you want?
The lower-regulation space allows fools to part with their money, and it brings the advantage of funding people whose vision stares down the longest barrel of hell--or just picks up on things the usual suspects can't grasp. You want those advantages, you allow that sphere, and you warn the players this is the nondescript poker table where we don't check too close for credentials; you might meet a few card mechanics who can shuffle four times and put the cards in any exact order they desire, but they're mostly decent people trying to play fair. You want it both ways, you set up two tables, and let the players pick where they want to sit.
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)
... you took that analogy way further than necessary... or i would say desired. but yeah, if i fund a kickstarter it's generally with the understanding that "if this project doesn't implode, then i've made a purchase, if it does implode, well, that's what happens sometimes."
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)
So much this. If you think it's a great product, wait until it's all built and buy it on the store shelves. if you think it won't land on store shelves, and you really want it, and it's worth losing your money over it, then chip in on the kickstarter. All kinds of businesses fail, surely the ones that are started by a couple of guys with no experience and only a webcam are going to fail more. I'm not sure why people think these are risk free.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not sure why people think these are risk free.
Because the world is fair and movies are technically accurate.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm actually surprised you don't hear this kind of thing more often.
The vast majority of startups fail.
Read https://s3.amazonaws.com/start... [amazonaws.com], especially chapter D.
The vast majority of startups fail. This report claims 74% of startups fail due to premature scaling alone.
Premature scaling seems to be exactly what has happened here; a company finding itself in a situation where it has to produce far more than it knows how to.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
the people who paid money likely feel differently
The people that put enough money into a Kickstarter campaign to actually hurt them or even upset them when it vanished are fools. I discount their feelings as such.
This planet is filled with legitimate manufacturers making multiple versions of everything physics, our knowledge and our laws will permit. If the toy you want is that important to you then go buy it from one of them.
investigate
Naturally. Bellow for cops. Cops will make everything better.
Crowd Funded = Scam Artist (Score:3)
I'm beginning to think that Crowd Funding is the latest greatest version of a scam artist's dream.
Step one: Promise the world
Step two: Set up crowd fund account
Step three: Exploit Media for free publicity
Step Four: ???
Step Five: Profit!
Step Six: don't deliver anything to anyone.
Re:Crowd Funded = Scam Artist (Score:5, Funny)
I smell a remake.
Re:Crowd Funded = Scam Artist (Score:5, Insightful)
Presumably that can and does happen, although most are not scams, just poorly run or run into unforeseen difficulties.
Kickstarter is about backing projects, and when those projects are advanced, like this concept, the project can fail due to either technical difficulties or inability to cost effectively manufacture the objects.
So, realistically, while most people would prefer to invest in projects that will produce a result, there is a substantial difference between a Kickstarter for something like a board game, which is relatively easy to publish, compared to an advanced drone, which is not easy to build, and the manufacturing process has to be built from the ground up.
People who get into Kickstarter projects expecting a product at the end are advised to have some understanding of the relative difficulties involved of the project they are supporting and then not support it if it is too speculative.
In this case, the project was sort of speculative. They were asking for 120,000 to get started, and they got two million. While that improved their ability to work on the project, it caused expectations to rise, and probably caused the team to make the mistake of increasing the scope of their project beyond their comfort zone.
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry, but there are already fifty different "drones" on the market. This wasn't ever going to be successful, mainly because it wasn't really new or innovative. It was "me too" project.
Re: (Score:2)
So, realistically, while most people would prefer to invest in projects that will produce a result, there is a substantial difference between a Kickstarter for something like a board game, which is relatively easy to publish, compared to an advanced drone, which is not easy to build, and the manufacturing process has to be built from the ground up. People who get into Kickstarter projects expecting a product at the end are advised to have some understanding of the relative difficulties involved of the project they are supporting and then not support it if it is too speculative.
Sure, there are a lot of real risks. But what you always have to ask yourself on a Kickstarter is "Have they been working on it as if they were $100k deep (in time or cash) from their own pockets, or has this been more of a dotcom-startup with high salaries, Aeron chairs and lavish company trips?" Because say you're 10-20% into this project, you start getting real numbers on the table and the costs are higher than expected, the market prices lower and you haven't really struck gold. Do you stock up on Ramen
Re: (Score:2)
I'm beginning to think that Crowd Funding is the latest greatest version of a scam artist's dream.
Step one: Promise the world
Step two: Set up crowd fund account
Step three: Exploit Media for free publicity
Step Four: ???
Step Five: Profit!
Step Six: don't deliver anything to anyone.
Crowdfunding is just like a startup or any other kind of project, failure is to be expected.
If you want a guaranteed product then go to a store and buy an item that already exists, but if you're banking on the creation of something new there's a real chance it won't work out.
Re: (Score:2)
go to a store and buy an item that already exists
You mean, go to the store and buy a drone, like I can do now? This was nothing more than a "me too" project.
Re: (Score:3)
Read "The Road to Wellville". It is set during the great breakfast cereal and processed food boom in the 1890's. A pattern followed by the great railroad buildout, the automobile boom of the late 1800s to early 1900's, the tech boom ofthe 50's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and later. The oil boom, cattle boom, etc. Nothing ever changes.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm starting my own crowd-funding site (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
404
Re: (Score:2)
I think that already redirects to boating.com.
Re: (Score:2)
Naa, BOAT stands for break out another thousand. Hundred dollar bills are so passe to a boat owner.
Re: (Score:2)
You'll lose money.
Kickstarter take 8% or something.
On that note, is kickstarter going to return the profit they made from this scam?
Yeah, I'd say "f it" and head to the beach too (Score:2, Funny)
>> whopping £2.3 million on Kickstarter ($3.5 million), after asking for a mere £125,000 to get off the ground
Yeah, if I were the project founders, I'd say "fuck it," pocket the money and head to the beach too.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Couldn't fly for more than a few seconds. You could do just as well with a stick of balsa wood, a rubber band, and a propeller.
40 minutes [nycaviation.com]... Not too shabby
Re: (Score:2)
Yup, I "invested" (Score:5, Informative)
They showed a completed project. They said it appeared in numerous places. It looked like all they needed to do was get money to start production.
Their Risks and challenges paragraph. 100% confident. They know it works. How are you supposed to do due diligence on a product when they outright lie.
I've complained to kickstarter, letting them know they are being tarred with the same brush, because dammit, kickstarter recommended them!
Risks and challenges
Through innovation and diligent research and development, We are 100% confident in delivering an Autonomous and Intelligent aerial photography and video platform. We know our technology works.
We have enlisted a world-class British EMS (Electronic Manufacturing Service), with over 20 years of experience in bringing cutting edge high-end technology products to market, to manufacture ZANO for our Kickstarter backers.
We have taken into account that component lead times potentially could cause delay in delivering ZANO to our backers on time. We have conservatively estimated a June delivery, however, Our component suppliers often need to order the raw materials to manufacture their components 12 months in advance, as a brand new product, it is difficult for us to estimate initial volumes and provide an accurate forecast to our suppliers. We want everyone to be able to experience ZANO experience, that's why we have not put a cap on the amount of ZANO's we are making available for the Kickstarter campaign. We have built fantastic relationships with our component suppliers who believe in ZANO and our vision to make aerial photography and video accessible to everyone. Our component suppliers have set aside large volume buffer stock to cope with the initial demand from Kickstarer! However, there is always a risk involved with large volume component supply, we thought we had better mention it! The risk isn’t if you will get it, it is simply when you will get it, if any supply issues arise! (We are working hard to ensure they do not!)
Re:Yup, I "invested" (Score:5, Informative)
All of that is 100% bullshit out of their mouths unless they were making them out of strange space materials. and if these were all custom carbon fiber and titanium , everyone should have walked away understanding that it was 100% BS for the price point.
Absolutely NO plastic injection company requires a 12 month lead time for ABS supplies, that is complete horse shit. Circuit boards even auto placed and tested have a MAX 3 month lead, and these jokers should have had the board design done and the files ready before the first kickstarter order came in.
They were bullshitting everyone and they knew it.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's easy to see if you take the time to learn about it first and put in effort, why people refuse to take the time to research things before making a decision I'll never understand.
Never ever believe a kickstarter promises without researching what they say first if they dont deliver proof already. The ones I back gladly will reveal sources and other information by just asking. If they wont tell you, they are scammers.
Re: (Score:3)
It's got HD video with image stabilization
WiFi control
Lots of bright, animated flashing lights.
Sonar obstacle detection
On-board microphone, that can apparently filter out the whine of the propellers?
On-board speaker
Motors can spin both directions! Up to 100,000rpm! in case you want to fly it upside down? wtf?
Fully autonomous
Facial recognition
Mesh networking, swarm capabilities
All in a tiny drone that fits in your hand, with 10 - 15 minutes of battery life, weighing less than 60 grams
Back to their claim of 1
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
First they say there may be delays due to component suppliers, then they say their suppliers have set aside large stockpiles specifically for this campaign.
It's a carefully crafted spiel, to first convince you they're being realistic - so you trust them - but by the time you've finished reading the paragraph, they're now convincing you it's a shoe-in and no way it can fail.
Re: (Score:2)
"kickstarter recommended them"
Did they?
Because KS's position on these has always been: we're simply providing a venue, a digital orange-crate for them to stand on and hawk their projects.
Don't look at me because I've thought the entire KS thing is ridiculous Pollyanna'ish bullshit from the start. It might have been well-intentioned, and there are almost certainly valid projects that are what they seem, but it was bound to turn into a "money/gullible people" Separation Engine.
Re: (Score:2)
Manufacturing is Hard (Score:5, Interesting)
Excess revenue is a big problem for a crowd funded project.
You might know how to build 200 units and ship them. Get some friends in to a soldering party.
But if you need to build 200,000, you need manufacturing.
Manufacturing require up front investment, employees, time and effort. The payoff is over a longer period as you ship products to market. If you build 200,000 then stop, you're going to make a huge loss, because you spent all that money setting up the manufacturing.
Re: (Score:2)
Also the incentive to squander the money and not deliver is greater- sure your name gets dragged through the mud but it is 3.5 million dollars!
Re: (Score:2)
^Second this.
I'm in the middle of spinning up my second contract manufacturer for a relatively simple device. It took 4 weeks just to load the Bill of Materials in their system! That was after all the kinks were worked out on our end and with direct relationships with half the suppliers. Now they can finally order the parts which have generally have a 6-12 week lead time. Digikey might have 800 motors in stock for 200 drones but you need to talk to at least 2 different middlemen if you want 1,000,000 of som
Re: (Score:2)
They said they already had a manufacturer
They said they already had suppliers with parts in stock
They didn't have 200,000 orders, they had 15,363.
fyi: these motors are not from Digikey, they're from unicorns that shit out raindow jellybeans. They can go from 100,000rpm to -100,000rpm, with a prop attached, in 200ms. There's 4 of them powered from a tiny lithium battery.
Re: (Score:2)
t took 4 weeks just to load the Bill of Materials in their system! That was after all the kinks were worked out on our end and with direct relationships with half the suppliers. Now they can finally order the parts which have generally have a 6-12 week lead time.
I think you need to physically move to Shenzhen!
Re: (Score:2)
They had a stretch goal of 2 million pounds. They got 2.3 million.
You can't say they weren't expecting it.
They also state, many times, they have already partnered with manufacturing house. No soldering party required.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Making 12 000 items at a rate one per day would take 33 years of working daily, assuming one person. 396 could make them in a month. That starts sounding like a mass production effort.
Kickstarter = inherent risk (Score:3)
I really don't like the whining here.
Let's see what happens to the actors involved:
1) Project owners - will now have egg on their face and shouldn't (hopefully) have further options to scam on kickstarter (or gofundme) projects.
2) Contributors - note the title isn't customer or consumer - should be happy they weren't strung along for longer. Some projects simply don't pan out, and this was one of them. Next time ask for credentials or track record before contributing.
3) Kickstarter - Laughs all the way to the bank on their commissions. Will they ever take action against these kind of projects? Sounds like it's detrimental to their bottom line, so probably not likely.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I understand inherent risk. However there is a difference between inherent risk and being conned. I've backed several projects on kickstarter and have only had a couple fail. These guys lied to us. Said they had a product ready for manufacturing, that they didn't.
Sure, not every project pans out. All of mine have, but most are late (loved my Pebble). However, is there no way for kickstarter to mandate more visibility or tie funds availability to progress?
Probably inability to scale (Score:4, Informative)
The fact that they were able to trickle out a few hundred units suggests that their production process was not at all fit for producing as many units as were demanded once they got popular. They were happy to accept the money coming in, but they didn't realize until it was too late that it would cost way more than that to develop a production facility that could pump out the units requested in a reasonable timeframe.
Building huge quantities of things is hard. Very hard. Just ask any car manufacturer that has tried to take a prototype or limited run vehicle and pump out hundreds of thousands of them per year. It's a completely different ballgame. It requires a very large investment in production facilities, automation, tooling, labor, supply chain, and distribution to take even a relatively inexpensive product concept and make many thousands of them, compared to making a few hundred. Some companies offer parts of the solution "as a service", but ultimately you are going to need some kind of deep customization for most products, and especially for something fairly unusual like drones.
If you only had 500 orders, you could very possibly build each one by hand in a garage. It would be tedious as all hell, but with someone dedicated to making trips to hardware stores to acquire tools and parts, someone dedicated to boxing them up and shipping them, and 2 or 3 people building them, you could definitely have a garage business where you churn out 500 drones every 3 to 6 months or so. 15,000, though, is a quantity that demands a completely different manufacturing approach, unless you plan to tell people who ordered last that their drone is scheduled to be delivered in 2025.
Based on the fact that hundreds of people got (presumably working) product out of them, I'm willing to bet that their primary, and successful, production "facility" was most likely a garage and/or basement, or a small leased or rented building with only the most basic facilities. The other possibility is that they actually tried to pay for the much more expensive full-blown process, the scale of which would let them produce around 50,000 or more drones per year, and completely ran out of money when trying to fulfill the remaining orders.
This is what happens with crowdfunding, unfortunately, unless they agree to sign a contract up-front that they either owe you your money back, or a finished product as originally advertised.
A word to the wise (Score:2)
Hardware is hard [medium.com]. Really [techcrunch.com] really [tech.eu] hard [nytimes.com].
The list goes on [appadvice.com], and on [arstechnica.com].
Even hardware projects with experienced teams can fail. If you see a hardware crowdfunding project, be fully willing to accept that your 'investment' (which is what it really is) is more likely to disappear than result in a finished product.
Crowd funding is not a store, but a gamble.. (Score:3)
Even though places like Kickstarter really try to make it look like some sort of store the projects are all gambles. There are a few areas that seem to have it down right (books, comics, etc) and I have had success, but tech stuff? *low whistle* You have to approach those different.
Neal Stephenson's 'Clang' comes to mind.
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com]
http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/... [polygon.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even though places like Kickstarter really try to make it look like some sort of store the projects are all gambles. There are a few areas that seem to have it down right (books, comics, etc) and I have had success, but tech stuff? *low whistle* You have to approach those different.
Neal Stephenson's 'Clang' comes to mind. https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com] http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/... [polygon.com]
Kickstarter has a reputation to maintain as well. While they may not promise anything in the fine print, if enough people get screwed and request a chargeback form the credit card company then the card issuers may decide to stop serving KS; even if no money gets refunded. In auditor, at some point a court may rule that despite KS' declaiming any responsibility they indeed do have some and order them to refund money.
Drones are so 2013 (Score:2)
Drones, meh.
Re: (Score:2)
Hobbyists and actual stores call them Quadrocopters. It's mostly media that didn't want to put that into print and thought drone was good enough that did this. Or the OP in this case.. None of those linked stories even call it a drone, they call it a gadget.
Comment from youtube (Score:2)
Comment from a youtube unboxing video:
So, basically, it isn't autonomous, it doesn't swarm, it has a flight time of less than five minutes, it can't even save videos to its micro SD card and it's only slightly more intelligent than its backers. It has less functionality than a Hubsan X4 H107c and it's six times the price. Awesome, I bet you're delighted. [youtube.com]
I'd be interested in hearing a founder response to this.
Vaperware (Score:2)
I have run 6 Kickstarters so far... (Score:2)
My background:
I've run 6 Kickstarters with my wife to launch and expand our family business. The first project failed to make goal because we didn't understand that Kickstarter doesn't deliver an audience. We learned and the next four similar projects succeeded spectacularly - and now we have a viable business - with zero debt and nobody owning a share of our business but us. We have lots of very happy customers, lots of expensive equipment - and around a thousand very happy supporters. We also had one
Re: (Score:2)
IMHO, Kickstarter should create a two-tier system - in tier #1, projects have to justify every penny they'll spend in mind-numbing detail - and they should be limited by KS themselves to 200% of that goal or $50,000 - whichever is greater.
Yeah, but they won't. They make 5 cents on the dollar, so how would it benefit them as a company to artificially limit revenue? Even with the occasional bad press, it's quite apparent people are still willing to shovel money into the machine.
Secondary markets for crowd funding (Score:2)
There should be a "secondary market" build into crowd funding platforms.
Imagine you put $150 towards a crowd funded drone. A year goes by, and you are getting nervous, so you can sell your $150 slot for $100 cash to someone else. Or if it starts to look like the product is going to be awesome, someone may offer $200 for your slot.
There should be a "short market" as well. You offer a $140 slot to someone else for a $150 drone. Then if the drone doesn't get built, you keep the $140. If the drone does get
Re: (Score:2)
Bad example. Star Citizen is actually delivering, and has daily progress updates. IMHO, it's exactly how a multi-million $ Kickstarter should be run. Contrast that with a $500,000 video game I backed with much more modest deliverable expectations: not an update in over a year. I'm pretty sure I'm out that money, but I understood that going it. Of the 11+ projects I have backed, it was the only one that turned into a turd. Then again, I try to be careful about what I back.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe the Republicans are correct about owning guns. (the right to self-defense was not delegated away)
Re: (Score:2)
I agree that we are closing in on a time when perhaps people can make stuff for themselves...and in the case of software projects, we're don't have "manufacturing costs" anyway - once your software is "developed" and "tested" - you're done.
But we somehow need to pay people who are smarter (or more persistent) than we are to design those things...to slog through the 43 failed prototypes...to write the code, to promote the idea...and a Kickstarter is as good a way as any to make that happen. I've paid for s