Gig Economy Pressures Make Drivers 'More Likely To Crash' (bbc.com) 109
Drivers and couriers who get their work from apps face a "heightened risk" of crashes, a study suggests. From a report: Research from University College London (UCL) indicated 42% of "gig-economy" couriers and taxi drivers reported vehicle damage because of a collision. Close to half admitted time pressure could make them break the speed limit. Distraction by smartphones and tiredness from overwork were also flagged as risks for those delivering food and parcels. The report draws on 200 responses to an online survey from drivers and couriers, as well as 48 in-depth interviews. The study does not focus on any one particular company, although Uber and Deliveroo are both named as examples of companies that enable gig-economy work -- where employees are not paid a salary but instead get money for each job completed. Of those surveyed, 63% said they had not been provided with safety training on managing risks on the road, while one in 10 reported someone had been injured in a crash while they had been working.
same triangle. (Score:5, Interesting)
Low Cost - quality - safety.
Pick a dot in the triangle you like best. The further you move towards low cost trough lack of regulation you decrease quality or safety.
In interesting solution would be if the apps started fining those they are paying if they were speeding. probably wont' happen unless a lot of people die.
Re:same triangle. (Score:4, Insightful)
that would make them responsible for the drivers actions. this whole sham can exist because of a lack of responsibility.
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In interesting solution would be if the apps started fining those they are paying if they were speeding. probably wont' happen unless a lot of people die.
They should calculate the distance the worker will have to drive at speed limit and set 120% of that or so as "minimum time required for job" to ensure workers aren't being rushed. If you reach a waypoint faster than the minimum time, then you lose a small portion of your payment for that job and add an extra 10-15 minute timeout "penalty waiting p
Just try to do the speed limit on some roads you w (Score:2)
Just try to do the speed limit on some roads you will get crushed by others doing 70+ in an 55.
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I suggest installation of more hidden speed cameras with radar detectors. Make sure the majority of cars exceeding the speed limit
by more than the greater of 5 Mph and 10% of max allowed speed will be ticketed.
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Or here is a crazy thought we could actually just increase the posted speeds to the rates most people want to drive at now. The fact is there are places were most people speed. Those places should have the speed limits increased. Most people are breaking the law therefor so thefore the law is undesirable as viewed by the public. The democratic thing to do is change it. Sure it might be "less safe" but the vote has gone against reducing traffic deaths and increasing speeds - so there
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The democratic thing to do is change it. Sure it might be "less safe" but the vote has gone against reducing traffic deaths and increasing speeds - so there
One of the major purposes of government on the roads is to protect human life and ensure safety: even when doing so results in inconvenience for most drivers.
You don't get to vote to put other people's lives in danger, even if you are in the majority --- that is not how government works, And it is part of the reason we have representative governm
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Disagree strongly. A democratic society or a representative society does get to vote on how much safety is enough when it comes to our shared space and shared resources like roads.
There city councils deal with speed limits in various places all the time. We could just make all interstate highways 25mph zones and probably all but eliminate collisions but that does not make it right - it makes it safe - but not correct.
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There must be a balance of risk to benefit. People, in general, are terrible at assessing risk. So we hire people who are trained in risk assessment, etc to help us out.
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The problem is that this has been tried and it does not work. Increasing speed limits tends to lead to people driving even fast.
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That is the problem with Gig economy. Is that everyone is working for themselves. So their risk = their reward. This is good, except for the fact that cost of the risks exceed the reward.
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How's half million dollar taxi medallions owned by big companies, who then literally rent it out by the 8 hours for an exhorbitant amount the driver must scurry about for just to barely break even by the end of his shift working?
Yes, free gig is much worse pressure than that.
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Not really. A Rootard was riding on the sidewalk - way faster than walking speed too - looking at his phone and clipped my kid who was a couple of yards behind me. It actually tore his jacket, but the twat didn't stop and I'm out of pocket, not him.
I did report it to the local operator (who couldn't identify the individual, which is a lie) and the police (who were too busy, which is also a lie).
No doubt if I'd clotheslined the little cunt (he was moving so fast I didn't have time to even think about it)
Re: same triangle. (Score:2)
I call them Rootards as well. They're a pain in the arse. I've bought a dashcam in case I hit one of the fuckwits as they whizz brainlessly the wrong way up one way streets.
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The big ones now have default free-fire orders on anyone cycling on the sidewalk aggressively. Sidestep and aim for the kidneys. They're below the age of criminal responsibility but the middle one can deliver a heck of a punch.
This all seems reasonable to me, except the part where you admitted guilt by posting it to slashdot. You incited your children to commit crimes, and now you've broadcast that fact to the world on a medium which doesn't even permit you to delete comments...
No, you don't. (Score:1)
Low Cost - quality - safety.
Pick a dot in the triangle you like best. The further you move towards low cost trough lack of regulation you decrease quality or safety.
In interesting solution would be if the apps started fining those they are paying if they were speeding. probably wont' happen unless a lot of people die.
You CAN have low cost, quality and safety.
The catch? The CEO wan't make 400 times what everyone else makes and shareholders just won't make the returns they want.
So, stick it to Wall Street and the CEO.
And the problem with that is? Nothing. There is no CEO in the States that's worth his money. None. No exceptions.
Don't bother posting, "What about so-and-so?"
Nope. Not even him. Yes, especially Musk.
and then they can't be 1099'ers and must be w2 (Score:2)
and then they can't be 1099'ers and must be w2 and even then they can't dock them under minwage. So at best fire / cut work hours of people who do it. But may lead to some on long ride just dumping someone at the site of the highway or speeding to get them home after an airport pickup so they don't hit 29+ hours an week.
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In South Florida, the taxi drivers are on the phone ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
I don't know what fantasy planet you come from where Taxi drivers are some kind of fucking paragon of service and safety. Services like Uber came to be because TAXI DRIVERS ARE SCUM.They cheat, they do everything they can to maximize the cost of the ride. They pretend their card readers are busted because they want to be paid on cash.
The worst uber/lyft drivers are TAXI drivers looking for extra money.
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miles driven (Score:2)
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Did they correct WHAT for miles driven? There is nothing to correct.
The study was interviews of drivers. They reported things like running red lights and speeding because of 'time pressures'. They reported that they had to use distracting apps. They reported that they drive while too tired. None of that has anything to do with 'miles driven'.
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You're missing the point. Being pressured to do unsafe things is different than doing them of your own accord. The outcome does not matter.
I have seen pictures of people climbing ladders placed on a stack of inverted buckets. By your logic, it should be OK for a roofing company to pressure workers to do that, as long as there are not more falls than the average dope that does that.
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They drive more (Score:5, Informative)
42% of "gig-economy" couriers and taxi drivers reported vehicle damage because of a collision
How does that compare to the general public? how about when corrected per vehicle mile/hour?
Of course an Uber or Taxi driver is going to be more likely to get into a collision since they drive more. I drive 20 minutes in the morning and evening on familiar routes that I've driven hundreds of times before. I deliberately avoid congested downtown areas when I drive, choosing off-peak times to drive downtown whenever possible.
A car-share driver is in the car all day long, called out to areas throughout the city and beyond in areas were he may have never been, and his busiest time is also the most congested time, he can't change his work hours to avoid congestion since that's exactly the times his customers most want to travel.
Either way we've got amateurs (Score:2)
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With little training driving
As opposed to Taxi drivers that move months of professional driver training? In most cities, Taxi drivers have no driver training at all.
on personal insurance. Sooner or later one of them is going to cause a big enough wreck that nobody wants to pay for it and the person they hit is screwed. Nevermind that when you get hit by an Uber driver they've got incentive to try and drive off....
That's why Uber and Lyft offer liability insurance above and beyond driver personal policies.
Uber has been in business for 9 years now, Lyft for 6 years, it's a little late in the game to say "Sooner or later something bad is going to happen", they've been around long enough that you can point to concrete examples.
Nevermind that when you get hit by an Uber driver they've got incentive to try and drive off....
Don't all drivers have that incentive? And the same disince
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In most cities, Taxi drivers have no driver training at all.
In which country is that? I would like to avoid it!
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In most cities, Taxi drivers have no driver training at all.
In which country is that? I would like to avoid it!
That's in the USA -- no driver training is required in most (all?) states to obtain a driver license, all that's required is a trivial road test -- my practical test was completely on a closed track at the driver testing center with no on-road component. And likewise, all that's required to become a taxi driver is a driver's license.
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In Germany you need 3 licenses:
a) driving license
b) person transport permit
c) local license proving knowledge about the city (you are supposed to either find the quickest or cheapest way from A to B by memorizing the city, aka without consulting a map/app)
c) can be omitted if you are not really driving a official taxi, but offer "driving services", b) can not be omitted.
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There's plenty of stories of people who get into accidents as passengers in an uber, the driver's auto insurance won't pay out, and so the passenger is also sued for the accident.
Can you post some of these? I didn't see any with a quick google search: https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
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In what third world country does the insurance not pay? Sure they can sue for compensation from the holder of the insurance, but not paying? No way in Europe! Must be another retardess of America? Or a misconception of yours?
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There are speed bumps near where I work and the delivery drivers don't slow down for them. We get the sudden, loud bangs as their trucks hit a bump at speed and all the stuff they are delivering gets smashed up.
They don't care because the delivery companies want speed above all else. The trucks and vans belong to the companies who must spend a fortune on maintenance.
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There are speed bumps near where I work and the delivery drivers don't slow down for them. We get the sudden, loud bangs as their trucks hit a bump at speed and all the stuff they are delivering gets smashed up.
They don't care because the delivery companies want speed above all else. The trucks and vans belong to the companies who must spend a fortune on maintenance.
Isn't that the opposite problem from "gig drivers"? When a driver is responsible for their own vehicle, they are more likely to take care of it, if it's an employer vehicle, then why should the driver care?
On the other hand, company drivers may be *more* incented to avoid an accident as their employer is likely to take a damage-causing accident more seriously than a self-employed rideshare driver, who may shrug off a dented fender on his own car since it doesn't affect the operation of the car.
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My point is that commercial driving of any kind creates perverse incentives to drive badly. Time pressure is the main factor.
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I drive more noisily on purpose where there are speed bumps.
Anything that makes residents hate them more is good.
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42% of "gig-economy" couriers and taxi drivers reported vehicle damage because of a collision
How does that compare to the general public? how about when corrected per vehicle mile/hour?
Of course an Uber or Taxi driver is going to be more likely to get into a collision since they drive more. I drive 20 minutes in the morning and evening on familiar routes that I've driven hundreds of times before. I deliberately avoid congested downtown areas when I drive, choosing off-peak times to drive downtown whenever possible.
A car-share driver is in the car all day long, called out to areas throughout the city and beyond in areas were he may have never been, and his busiest time is also the most congested time, he can't change his work hours to avoid congestion since that's exactly the times his customers most want to travel.
Over-confidence also leads to crashes. If you drive a route 200 times, your brain will start ignoring things because they don't happen often. But, when it does happen, you might end up in a crash.
If you drive to a new place, you'll be constantly tailgated by people who drive there regularly. Familiarity with a route does not necessarily make you a safer driver, most often time it makes you a more aggressive driver.
Plus Uber drivers are not going to be on the phone or texting on the phone.
Academia (Score:5, Insightful)
Where we do studies to learn things that became obvious thru pizza deliver in the 1970s!
pizza drivers some have unsafe cars (Score:3)
https://www.restaurant-hospita... [restaurant...tality.com]
Yeah, studies like this are needed for court cases (Score:2)
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Avoid the Noid!
For the younger generation, read here [wikipedia.org] for historical context.
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Where we do studies to learn things that became obvious thru pizza deliver in the 1970s!
But this has an APP and is DISRUPTIVE... Can you not see the difference?
Drivers that don't crash! (Score:1)
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Bullshit. You do not need a 'control group'. The article (and headline) are not about whether or not gig-economy drivers are more or less safe than other drivers, it is about whether or not the 'pressures' of being a gig-economy driver are making them less safe than they would otherwise be. The given examples of things that make them unsafe is running red lights and speeding due to 'time pressure', using a required but distracting app, driving while too tired, etc. There is no possible way that you can
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Where'd they get their training? (Score:1)
42% ???
Isn't that the percentage of drivers who learned how to drive in the Middle East before immigrating to England?
Ovbious flaws (Score:2)
Also, it mentions that Uber "obliges (sic)" drivers to take a break, but how can they expect to control that seeing as the whole structure rewards drivers for taking rides and penalizes them for no
uber should pay for time to go backup pickup point (Score:2)
uber should pay for time to go backup pickup point (airport) at the very least.
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Most likely they are driving for Uber, Lyft and other riding companies at the same time anyway. ...
So a break for one would be working for the other
Lack of proper driver education/training (Score:2)
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Your post is one good idea mixed up with a ton of luddite nonsense.
wants to jam so-called 'self driving cars' down everyones' throats now
How is this being jammed down anyone's throat? You can't even buy one right now, and no one is seriously talking about a legal mandate (which is the only way to "force" them on people).
the damned things not being anywhere near good enough now or likely ever
Google has had self-driven cars on the road for years. For legal purposes, they were required to have a person in the driver seat in some states, but that person didn't have to do anything.
So far, their self-driven cars are better than the vast majority of dri
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Your post is one good idea mixed up with a ton of luddite nonsense.
Stopped reading right there.
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In this country (U.S.) we used to teach people to drive when they were in highschool. That stopped at least a couple decades ago,
School-hosted driver training programs still exist, but parents (or students) have to foot the bill and less and less people can afford to pay for that any more. My high school had driver training, but I couldn't afford it so I didn't get any. A friend showed me how to drive in a school parking lot, but it wasn't my school and there wasn't much showing. Then I drove his car on CA 9 and had to pull over for people a lot, but I didn't hit anything or cause any accidents.
Alas, funding public education is not a
I dunno about that... (Score:2)
I know this is anecdotal evidence... (Score:2)
But recently, anytime some moron is dangerously tailgating me trying to get around me, they have a Lyft/Uber sticker on the car. I don't think they speed with passengers in the car, but getting to pickups drive like madmen.