New York Mayor Says Amazon Headquarters Debacle Was 'an Abuse of Corporate Power' (cnn.com) 411
New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is still upset that Amazon isn't coming to New York. De Blasio attacked the company Sunday for canceling plans to build a second headquarters in Queens last week. From a report: "This is an example of an abuse of corporate power," de Blasio told NBC's Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press." "Amazon just took their ball and went home. And what they did was confirm people's worst fears about corporate America." He made similar comments in a New York Times op-ed Saturday. Amazon canceled the deal just months after announcing plans to split its new, second headquarters between New York and Virginia. The Seattle-based company, which is trying to grow its footprint at home and abroad, spent a year reviewing hundreds of "HQ2" proposals from all over North America before settling on the two regions.
[...] On Sunday, de Blasio, a Democrat, said New York offered Amazon a "fair deal," and blamed the company for making what he called an "arbitrary" decision to leave after some people objected. "They said they wanted a partnership, but the minute there were criticisms, they walked away," he added. "What does that say to working people that a company would leave them high and dry simply because some people raised criticisms?"
[...] On Sunday, de Blasio, a Democrat, said New York offered Amazon a "fair deal," and blamed the company for making what he called an "arbitrary" decision to leave after some people objected. "They said they wanted a partnership, but the minute there were criticisms, they walked away," he added. "What does that say to working people that a company would leave them high and dry simply because some people raised criticisms?"
Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Insightful)
$11.2 billion in profits means you pay -0.1% federal tax. [itep.org] Nice.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:3)
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"Should" not is wrong here. Corporations make great use of government services. We don't have a system that directly applies fees to infrastructure (such as dollars per mile spent shipping products on roads) then they should be paying their fair share of the load that creates infrastructures and services that they make use of.
When they make tons of profits and the workers are barely making ends meet with diminishing salaries, why is it more appropriate for citizens to pay taxes rather than corporations?
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One of the revolutionary demands was equality before the law, as in many monarchies in Europe the nobility were the only ones electing the legislature, and paid no tax. Bloodshed ensued.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:4)
In New York City, the top 1% pay about 46% of all income taxes collected in New York State - that's per Gov. Cuomo [investors.com]. After recent tax changes, the rich are leaving New York State, and already the state is running a $23BN tax shortfall, about a 3% deficit so far this tax year.
Yea! Tax the rich! What are they gonna do, leave? Well, yeah, they will.
BTW, we tax INCOME, not WEALTH.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:4)
Sure, but what percentage of the income do they make? If they're taking home 80% of the income and paying 46% of the income tax, that seems to be underpaying.
Also, per your link, that statistic is not from the Cuomo, but is stated editorialising by investors.com after his quote.
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No one wants to pay much tax. The only people who say they want to pay higher taxes actually want to tax others so they can spend others' money on their own priorities. They're willing to kick in a few dollars so they can spend 10000x as much more money they didn't earn.
So yeah, like anyone, Amazon doesn't want to pay much tax. They don't get a lot of valuable services in return.
(And replying in advance to the usual dumb responses: their delivery vehicles pay plenty of fuel taxes for the roads they use,
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The problem is, even with your fanboy defense of corporate tax fraud, you are still paying taxes. They aren't.
Focus on changing the laws so YOU pay no taxes. Don't worry about fighting their fight. They have deeper pockets and more lobbyists than you.
They won't be charged with fraud. Because they didn’t commit any fraud.
If liars can lie about Amazon, liars can lie about me or anyone else. If taxers can loot Amazon, taxers can loot me or anyone else.
No one is safe until we are all safe.
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Amazon is complying with the current US tax code as written, they have no obligation to pay taxes you imagine they owe, they do have an obligation to pay what they owe, and according to the tax code, they owe nothing.
Re:Tax is for the little people (Score:4, Insightful)
The argument is that the law ought to be different.
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Corporations don't pay taxes period, that's just the cost of doing business. You, the consumer, are the ones paying the tax.
I'm with you, corporations don't pay taxes. Or more specifically, corporations don't feel the pain of taxes because a corporation is not a human. But I don't think it's a given that consumers bear the burden.
Here's how I think about it. You're going to collect taxes and those taxes are ultimately going to come out of someone's pocket. That person will now have less cash to spend on things they'd like to spend on. This is the true cost of a tax.
Now, who will that person be? It will depend on a lot of specifi
Re:Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Informative)
The notion that corporations pass income taxes on to consumers is not supported by any data whatsoever.
Really? Any sanely run corporation must pass on all costs to the customers or eventually go out of business.
Re:Tax is for the little people (Score:4, Interesting)
Personal income taxes just end up being paid by hard working corporations. If I have to pay taxes out of my income, I buy less stuff and corporate profits go down.
So do the right thing and abolish personal income tax. Do the right thing and let the corporations pay their taxes out of their profits.
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It turns out that where you extract taxes from is irrelevant. The economy all interconnected, and money flows like water running around a circular wheel. Taxes are just diverting some of that water (money) from this wheel to the government (who injects it back at different points in the wheel). Regardless of whether you extract water (taxes) at the point where individuals receive income (income tax), or at the point where individuals spend income (sales tax), or while a c
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I actually do get that. I deliberately posted a mirror image of the corporate apologists here that think corporations shouldn't be taxed.
Of course, corporations already have lawyers and accountants on the payroll anyway while individuals often don't except at tax time, so there is some reason to prefer extracting that "water" while corporations are holding it.
The behavior modification taxes tend to backfire if there is any danger they might modify behavior. See the hand wringing over cigarette taxes drying
Re:Tax is for the little people (Score:4, Insightful)
Higher corporate taxes results in lower wages and distribution and thus lower individual spending.
Actually higher corporate taxes results in more spending on wages, infrastructure etc as the corporation would prefer to spend their money, expand their business and write it off then give it to the government. Unlike wage earners, who basically get taxed on income, corporations get taxed on profits, or the amount left over after paying the bills including wages.
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Taxes go up by 20%, so they put their prices up by 20%, right? Wrong! If the market would bear it, they'd already be charging the higher price.
If taxes went down would they drop their prices because Uncle Fester would be going "Hey folks, we've already got enough"?
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No. Pay attention: income taxes are taken out of profits, and profits only exist AFTER COSTS ARE ACCOUNTED FOR.
In fact, if you were to do your books and use the companies income taxes as a cost item, you could go to jail.
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Sales tax, property tax, VAT, inventory tax....
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This discussion is of Amazon not paying taxes, and those were income taxes. If you want to change the discussion, we can do that too.
It's why sales taxes are considered regressive and income taxes are progressive. The idea of a progressive income tax on individuals and corporations is actually quite an innovation. It's the fairest way to pay for a civil society.
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This isn't GOP garbage, this is cold hard facts that most large businesses do not pay their fair share of taxes on their profits. Any loophole or shelter they can find is used. This is not looked down upon or even hidden, this is considered normal business procedure. The more money you make, including corporations, the easier it is to find ways to avoid paying taxes. This isn't even a matter of flat-rate tax or similar suggestions, the problem is that there are so many ways to just avoid tax.
Municipalitie
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Do you understand how they did that? With deferred tax credits from previous years AND credits for executives exercising their stock options. Every dollar in corporate taxes saved due to Executives exercising stock options is more than offset by the personal income taxes paid at the much higher rate of 37% as opposed to the much lower corporate income tax rate.
Sorry, but all major corporations do this - tell me about all the taxes Facebook pays, GE, etc.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Insightful)
The part where the profits are increased because government taxes went and paid for infrastructure that they depend upon. Ie, water and sewage for their workers, roads so that workers can arrive at the plants, railroads and bridges so that their goods can be shipped out, a court system so that they can make use of a legal system when they have disputes, police and military to protect their real estate and workers, etc.
Companies do not make money in a vacuum, governments are a vital part of doing business. When a large corporation pays 0% in taxes then they are essentially free-loading off of everyone who does pay tax. Even the most staunch capital-L Libertarian will agree that this is unfair.
And don't say "comrade" as if paying taxes were synonymous with communism, that just makes any argument you had look stupid.
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- Amazon's delivery drivers pay fuel taxes for roads.
- Amazon's buildings pay property tax for fire and police protection.
- Amazon’s buildings pay sewer and water bills and electricity bills just like everyone else's.
- Amazon's employees pay income tax and sales tax and property tax for their kids' school.
- Amazon pays payroll taxes just like every other employer.
They pay for the services they get. Most of the rest goes for government giveaways.
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> Most of the rest goes for government giveaways.
Like the $1.2B in refundable tax credits that Amazon demanded to move to NY, and $500M in capital grants to build facilities with. It takes a long, long time of a couple percent of property tax to pay these things back, let alone pay for the services they're consuming in the meantime.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon entered into a 10 year deal with the City and State of New York, and over those ten years they would have paid an estimated $30 BN in various taxes and fees. Instead, NY City and State agreed to 90 cents on the dollar, AKA $27 BN over the next ten years to lure Amazon to Queens. So AOC & Friends didn't "save" NY city and state $3 BN, she cost them $27 BN in new tax revenue.
25,000 new jobs for a 10% discount on taxes, seems like an OK deal to me, but then again, I'm not an economics major like AOC is.
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IF they pay those taxes, sure. But if they get a sweatheart "tax break", then no.
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If you utilize the services that those taxes pay for (roads, planes, electricity, etc etc etc) then it is both immoral AND unethical to not pay your taxes.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:2)
Roads are paid for with fuel taxes.
Schools are paid for with school taxes.
Electricity is paid for with electric utility bills (not taxes).
Amazon, if it moved to NY city, would have paid $27BN in state taxes over the next ten years, that is money NY state won't see because AOC & Company decided they wouldn't allow the state to give a little to get a lot.
Losing Amazon cost Queens/NY State $27BN in lost revenue.
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Problem is it would have forced a lot of the existing residents out of the area. It's immoral to get tax money in exchange for allowing your constituents to be displaced.
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Amazon, if it moved to NY city, would have paid $27BN in state taxes over the next ten years,
Funniest thing I've read all day!
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Also a favoured appellative of one Mr. B. Bunny (esq), in his frequent decriptive episodes relating to one Mr. E. Fudd.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:4, Insightful)
They might not be doing anything illegal, but I disagree what they are doing is ethical. Ethical is a higher bar than legal. One of the definitions of ethical is: avoiding activities or organizations that do harm to people or the environment. So they found a loophole that allows them to avoid all federal taxes. They could chose to not use that type of loophole and pay a reasonable amount of tax to the country that allows them to make billions in profit.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:2)
Amazon employed the same loophole Facebook and Apple used in 2012, this 'loophole' generated an amount of personal income that was taxed at the higher personal income tax rates, not the lower corporate levels.
If you have an issue with Amazon )and many other companies) doing nothing more than complying with US tax code as written, ask your elected representatives to change it!
47% of americans either pay no net income taxes or even profit, getting refunds that exceed all monies withheld from paychecks - are t
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Insightful)
How can ordinary citizens like you and I get the same negative tax deal as Amazon?
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How do you know? Usually tax law has grey areas where it takes a court case to decide whether something is legal or illegal, and different courts may decide differently. Not to mention the prosecutors discretion in bringing a case and the taxman also having discretion in whether to do an audit.
Simple example, if I write of my cars mileage, depreciation etc for business and I'm regularly stopping at the grocery store for personal needs while on business, am I breaking the law and will the government bother t
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, nobody's fool enough to let the government be the power company.
There are plenty of places in America with government run municipal power.
Municipal electric utilities in the United States [wikipedia.org]
They generally work well. Electrical power is a natural monopoly, so free market competition isn't really an alternative anyway.
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If electrical power is a natural monopoly, then why do I get my power from a mix of sources?
I think you mean that the infrastructure to deliver electric power is a natural monopoly. Which is true, to a point. But what energizes the wires need not be a monopoly, and in fact it's best if it isn't.
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So if I were to say evade the grocery store's food tax, that wouldn't lead you to question my ethics?
How about if I just trick the cashier into putting my steak on your tab? (hey, somebody's gotta pay for it and somebody did so it's all good, right?).
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You're preaching to the choir here. My questions were to someone who doesn't think it's immoral or unethical to evade taxes.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:2)
Who's evading taxes?
Amazon pays all the federal income taxes owed.
If the Queens deal went thru, Amazon would have paid $27BN in state & local taxes - they had a deal whereby queens and NY state would forgive $3BN if Amazon paid$27BN over the next ten years.
Amazon evades no taxes, it complies with the tax code as written by your elected representatives.
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I own three atom bombs, one is thermonuclear.
Only you, required me to say I was sometimes full of shit. That's because you are a moron. I also don't actually run a 1kW linear on my phone.
I did vote for Vermin Supreme, but you've convinced me to vote Trump next round.
Evading taxes is 'As American as apple pie'. Everybody does it. Some people lie about it.
I only wish you were better at trolling. What you do is just lame.
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It is illegal, but not immoral or ethical, to rip your face off and stuff it up your ass.
Re: Tax is for the little people (Score:2)
47% of tax filers pay no federal income tax each year, should they pay more to have 'skin in the game'?
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The social contract has been broken by governmental greed. It's time to void and reinstate a new contract while seizing stolen assets from the governmental thieves robbing society.
FTFY
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I would say that you failed accounting 101, but I doubt you even took it.
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Amazon lowered it's tax obligation by giving employees generous stock options, which, when exercised, gave Amazon a great write-off and transferred the tax obligation to the employees that pay a higher rate on their income than the corporation.
Amazon transferred it's tax obligation to it's employees, just as provided for in the tax code your elected representatives wrote. Don't like it, take it up with your elected officials.
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Amazon supposedly said they would not be searching for another location after the announcement.
Which makes me think it was a bait & switch deal on Bezo's part to begin with. Probably to squeeze more money out from Washington State as usual.
Amazon are scum... (Score:2, Insightful)
Amazon are scum with no regard for their customers' (or is it products') privacy.
(1) Archiving/mining/sale of purchase data
(2) Selling facial recognition systems to police agencies worldwide, including in less than savory places
(3) Normalizing always-on microphones in people's homes.
I hope this is only the beginning of the backlash against Amazon and Jeff "Pic Dick" Bezos -- the ideal end game would be a big 'ol trust busting party, as was held for AT&T in the early 1980s. Split Amazon up into 10 or
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Amazon customers disagree: https://www.businesswire.com/n... [businesswire.com]
What is good for the goose (Score:4, Insightful)
>"New York Mayor...' 'This is an example of an abuse of corporate power,' de Blasio told NBC"
I suppose all these major "incentives", bonuses, express permitting, promises, tax cuts, state-funded infrastructure for private benedit, and other such things are not "an example of an abuse of government power"?
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It surprises me that western governments are allowed to bribe corporations. Laws are supposed to apply to everyone equally.
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>"Are you suggesting it's "abuse of power" to negotiate with corporations to bring their employment dollars into town, really?"
Yes, it can be. I am not saying it necessarily is, but that it can be. Especially when it is given as favors, or due to their palms being greased, or due to a conflict of interest. And it can be very harmful to the tax payer if the total cost/benefit analysis is flawed or inaccurate.
>"I guess you didn't internally check your logic before you blurted again. Typical Trump tra
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I'm not the OP, but I would argue that. Governments shouldn't give special treatment to individuals (including corporate individuals). Laws are supposed to apply to everyone equally.
Tax incentives to corporations are straight up bribes. Research has also shown that those bribes almost never pay off, so not only are they corruption, they're also against the public interest.
Player, Referee, Player (Score:5, Informative)
If you are both a player and the referee, you can't complain when your opponent leaves with the ball.
You spin me right round baby, right round... (Score:4, Interesting)
NYC makes offer to Amazon, Amazon negotiates, NYC gets ready to make loads of concessions to entice them into contract, people scream bloody murder, NYC cancels contract, Amazon walks away, NYC -> *pikachu surprised meme*
This is your fault NYC government. Not Amazon's. Yours. And while yes, you put way too much on the table in the first place, that too is your fault, not Amazon's. You could have walked away first, could have turned them down... oh wait, you actually did, but now you wanna be butthurt because Amazon accepted your rejection instead of begging you to take them back.
This is purely your fault for making terrible deals in the past to "bring jobs" to NYC. This is purely the fault of every city that has done this and created this ridiculous reality where corporations can shop around for the best deals... you are a government, not a retail business! STOP SELLING US OUT! Jobs are NOT worth it if they do not help the economy in your city/county/state. When you drop all corporate taxes for X years you are hurting your state, every time. They have no incentive to stay, so when the tax breaks are over, hey, time open a new HQ an reduce workforce to skeleton or less in the last place! And you can't stop it. So, stop doing that. Stop corporate welfare. Stop tax break incentives that last for years. You want an Amazon HQ, give them 1 year. ONE. A year of no taxes while you set up and get going, then business as usual - pay your taxes or walk on, son. Do that for everyone else. Heck, do that for NEW businesses as well! Attract that start-up! Incentivise small business growth! Anything but giving giant corporations that already pay almost no taxes yet another tax break.
An yes, i'd go so far as to charging additional tax on these massive businesses wanting to move into an area. The amount of public resources is way out of balance with the taxes they'd pay even without any tax breaks.
A few loudmouths screamed (Score:2, Informative)
It wasn't general outrage.
It wasn't democracy.
It was the same arrogant, ignorant loudmouths who think they know better, doing their normal crap of forcing people to do "what's best for themselves":
POLL: Majority of New Yorkers Supported Amazon Moving to NYC [nationalreview.com]
...
A significant majority (56 percent) of all New Yorkers approved of the plan while 36 percent disapproved. Among New York City residents support was slightly stronger at 58 percent.
Support was most pronounced among minorities: 70 percent of black voters approved while just 25 percent disapproved, and 81 percent of Latinos approved compared to 17 percent who disapproved.
So a bunch of white entitled suburban "progressives" thought they knew what's best for actual working-class blacks and Latinos.
And they fucked it up.
Imagine that.
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Yes. This.
The rule of law means one set of rules for everyone. There shouldn't be an insurmountable wall of regulations and taxes in the first place that requires all this negotiated one-off deal making. If you want a business friendly climate then stop playing favorites to the corporations that don't need favoritism.
If you want to know what caused the systemic risk of the Great Recession of 2009, then look no further than the government regulations that failed to regulate and actually promoted the centr
Wasn't the government's fault (Score:2, Insightful)
The NYC taxpayers, OTOH, took exception with what amounted to handing Amazon $3 billion dollars in return for some jobs that may or may not materialize and that, even if they did, might end up going to folks brought in from out of state. They're the ones that shut down the deal by loudly protesting and making it clear that if th
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NY City and State lost out on $27 BN in new tax revenue over the next ten years because a few vocal economic geniuses were butt hurt over the 10% discount the politicians offered to gain the 90% in actual revenue.
AOC didn't save NYC $3BN, she cost it $27BN - and she wants you to celebrate her achievement. Now Democrats are protesting AGAINST job creation... That's a first.
No, they lost out on the _potential_ revenue (Score:2, Insightful)
The expected outcome, based on prior experience, is that Amazon would have pocketed their subsidies and then when they dried up left.
This isn't Job Creation, it's Job Extortion.
Nice right wing talking points ya got there, BTW. Even worked in some AOC there even though she had nothing to do with it except personally opposing the deal. Do you work for a right wing think tank or just parrot everything they tell you to for free?
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Now Democrats are protesting AGAINST job creation... That's a first.
Those jobs will still be created, they'll just be created somewhere other than Queens. And anyway, aren't you Trump supporters supposed to hate Amazon too?
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I was with you until the last paragraph about how the same amount of employees requires more public resources purely because they work for the same company. How exactly is one company with 25,000 workers put more strain on public resources than 25 companies with 1,000 employees each? Are you saying that breaking up companies (and government agencies) to limit them to say 100 employees each would save NYC a ton of money?
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/.'s user base are the moderators, which largely leans center-right libertarian. If you consider that to be far left, that's on you.
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Amazon got $3 BN in concessions toward what was a projected $30 BN tax bill the first ten years of the agreement.
Amazon was going to pay $27 BN to NY City & State tax collectors, now that money will go to the tax collectors in VA and TN.
But according to AOC, now NY has $3 BN to pay teachers more, medicare for all, etc. Genius. She costs NY City & State $27 BN in revenue and she's thinking of ways to spend the imaginary savings from ending the deal.
Paah (Score:2)
I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if they were paying taxes instead of sucking on the public tits everywhere they want a physical presence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
You get the idiot you voted for (Score:4, Insightful)
That is the bottom line.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
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Realistically, NYC was going to get their jobs, but they
Re:Blaming the wrong party (Score:4, Interesting)
Realistically, NYC was going to get their jobs, but they were also going to all the ballooning housing prices and other issues that are plagueing places like San Francisco, Seattle, and all the other tech boom towns. That's what the root of the protests were about; sticking up for the current residents who were probably going to end up being priced out of their own neighbourhoods and trying to provide them with some safeguards.
At $15,000 average income this sounds like a shitty economically blighted neighborhood. So in order to improve said neighborhood there has to be an economic driver. Any economic driver capable of making that kind of impact, be it Amazon or a Walmart Distribution Center, or anything else of like size will cause some disruption and displacement. More money chasing housing means rent will go up. Values will increase which will also increase property taxes.
All that is by design part of economic development. You can't take a shitty neighborhood, add opportunity, make it somewhat less shitty, and avoid pricing out the prior occupants of the formerly more shitty neighborhood.
Either way you try to make that omelette's, some eggs are going to break. If there is a job center in the area then at least there might be an option to subsidize some housing. Without that job center, it's just another shitty broke neighborhood into which money is poured.
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I'm guessing that after the deal was struck (Score:2)
that there weren't as much "campaign contributions" to politicians and "gifts" to local "civic" leaders as they expected.
Who ran the numbers first? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me like a LOT of people involved with or impacted by this Amazon HQ being in, vs. leaving New York are just running off emotions and assumptions?
To determine if this was a "good deal" for NY taxpayers, you have to look at many factors and crunch all the numbers. I'm confident the likes of Cortex didn't do so, but I question if DeBlasio did either?
I mean, you have to calculate impact of the extra traffic it generates .... the extra demand on public utilities like electric power, sewer and water. You obviously have to look at how much you gave Amazon in tax breaks and benefits, vs. how much they'll really benefit the public with new jobs. (How much will you collect in taxes from the people they hire?) And if the deal wasn't struck with a clause in it that required Amazon STAY there for a number of years -- you have to try to take an educated guess about the long-term future. Many times, companies take advantage of these deals to put a business in a state, only to pull back out as soon as the perks expire.
I don't know if the HQ was a good deal of Queens or it wasn't .... but the people making the decision should sure know, and I'm not confident any of them do?
Gov demands (Score:2)
Who wants to become full union and have to get told who to hire by a gov?
Hire on merit and grow as a brand.
Find a state and city that welcomes innovation and jobs.
Not a state that places demands on needing a union and who to hire.
Once a gov says who to hire, the next part is how many to hire.
Or in other words (Score:5, Insightful)
What does it say? (Score:2)
What does that say to working people that a company would leave them high and dry simply because some people raised criticisms?
What does it say? It says companies care a lot about their reputations. It says that companies don't want to set up shop where even a small minority object. It says that companies, even very large ones, can't afford to piss off their customers.
And most importantly, Mayor de Blasio, it says that you don't have a right to those jobs. People get to make deals and they get to walk away from them if they change their minds. Perhaps you should think about that a little harder the next time you offer a sweetheart
Make up your mind, New York (Score:2)
What New York politician did NOT tell Amazon to take a hike? So Amazon takes a hike as ordered and now it's "not fair" that they did???? How absurdly hypocritical.
Corporation avoids controversy, who is surprised? (Score:3)
Amazon doesn't want to build HQ somewhere where they are going to be picketed, attacked and vilified. Even if those attacks come from a vocal minority, in the age of social outrage that is not good for business. So they'll go somewhere where they are going to be welcome, or just spread their employees across different places to diversify their locations and reduce the risk being targeted by outraged people. How does this surprise anyone? I'm neither defending or attacking anyone here, just stating this was the obvious logical outcome.
Pot meet kettle (Score:2)
Greed driven corporations are pretty bad, I'll give you that.
However, they don't hold a candle to the corruption and abuse of power your typical politician wields.
Watching a politician pretending to be all righteous against $subject is most amusing.
Re:DNC platform (Score:5, Insightful)
The number of jobs that companies promise in exchange for tax breaks has always been a lie. The actual jobs are always a small fraction of what was originally claimed, and the promised increase in revenue to the cities never actually shows up.
If a municipality or state makes an agreement here to get new business relocated, then they should be putting in hard requirements into the deals. Ie, reduce the taxes only if the promises are kept, increasing them proportionate to how far apart the promises and reality actually are.
Politicians weasel out of this though. When the jobs don't show up the politicians never takes the blame, but just passes it along to the company ("how was I to know they didn't consider a handshake to be binding?") or to an opposing party ("they undermined me at every turn!").
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It's worse than that. Companies often get massive investments into the infrastructure that they will need to use, which often isn't included in the original deal. Power, water and sewer, transportation, etc. The rationale is that there's budget for improving those things anyway, and might as well improve them for the company which will now have thousands of employees and a giant building complex using all that.
This means that communities which aren't near the company and which had been earmarked for infrast
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In my State those sort of tax breaks are tied to the actual creation of the jobs, and are received retrospectively. So when they lie about how many jobs they'll create, they're also lying to themselves about how much of a tax credit they'll get.
The Wisconsin thing worked the same way. In the end they don't get their tax breaks, they only got media reports saying they did.
The company got an option to create jobs and get a tax break.
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NY politicians offered a 10% discount on a projected ten-year $30 BN tax bill. NY State lost out on $27BN in income because AOC didn't like the 10% discount to get the income. Brilliant.
Re:Amazon saw the writing on the wall. (Score:4, Informative)
New York ranks No. 1 in losing residents to other states
https://www.bizjournals.com/ne... [bizjournals.com]
They are leaving. I quote:
Looking at New York City specifically, the area with the largest percentage of residents lost to other states came from the zip code 10075, in the Upper East Side, which faced a 9.3 percent decrease in its population from 2015 to 2016
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NY State is offering companies 10 year tax amnesty to relocate to NY. They aren't getting many takers.
Texas, on the other hand is the latest escape destination for CA corporations, is seeing explosive job growth.
The Queens location would have been good for Amazon and the city, but AOC wanted a scalp, so those 25K jobs are going elsewhere.
Tennessee and VA thank AOC for her help in generating job growth in their states.
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When the rednecks meet the people with 47 genders. They should televise that.
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The rednecks already have 47 genders, but they also have an unwritten agreement never to talk about them.
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I'm sure they'll find some red state willing to give them a few billion for hopes and promises
Good luck finding 25,000 intelligent tech workers in Oklahoma.
Re: Maybe they'll build it in Wisconsin instead (Score:2)
They are taking those jobs to TN & VA, I'm sure people will be willing to move to either for a good-paying job.
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This is why we need to make sure all levels of government affected by such actions are involved.
Yes the US style of government is slow and clumsy. However, companies will need to work with them, to help make sure that they are indeed providing such a side effect benefit to the community, while they use that location to make gobs of money.
People who live a few hundred miles north of New York City know the cost of having a big company being center of a community, only for it to leave devastating the communit
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This is why we need to make sure all levels of government affected by such actions are involved.
Even better, the government can just keep their snoot out of location decisions, and corporations can make the decision based on business efficiency rather than bribe size.
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You know, New York isn't really a Blue State. Just because the President elections and senate will tend to be Blue, The house of representatives will often get a good mixture of Democrat and Republican. New York, is a large state, with a lot of Rural areas, and a lot of people who are Very Red. I can drive up the roads and I see Trump Signs. Yellow Don't Tread on me, Tea Party Flags, Signs fighting the "New York Safe Act" on gun control. You will actually see more of these then Blue advertising.
New York
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So, instead of paying an estimated $25 billion in taxes they were going to pay $22 billion, after working out a deal with Super Mario Brother Jr. But, the former bartender objected about Big Evil Amazon getting a $3 billion check from the taxpayers. In the end, New York is going to get $0 billion instead. Great job. I repeat, folks, an economics degree! The people of New York elected that scatterbrain, and they simply deserve who they elected.
The stupidity of Ms. Occasional-Cortex is irrelevent.
Amazon paid $0 federal income tax on profits of $11 Billion. Actually they paid less than zero, they got a $129 Million tax refund. Pretty nice, eh? That's two consecutive years of zero federal tax paid.
If you think they aren't going to do the same exact thing to New York and Virginia, you're dumber than that former bartender.
Amazon paid state and local - that's what matters (Score:2)
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Let's say Amazon never paid incme taxes in NY State, for the sake of argument, so what? Every one of those 25K employees would have paid their income taxes, that alone is a huge net win for NY State and Queens.
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How do you know if the current mayor of New York City is a Republican?
The city doesn't smell like urine.
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I suggest the name become HQ2/2 to represent half the HQ2 they originally described.