Delta Air Lines Boeing 757 Lost Nose Wheel Before Takeoff, FAA Says (nytimes.com) 253
A Boeing 757 plane operated by Delta Air Lines lost a nose wheel as it prepared to take off from Atlanta's main airport on Saturday, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. It was the latest troubling episode involving one of the manufacturer's aircraft. The New York Times: Delta Air Lines Flight 982 was preparing to take off from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport for a trip to BogotÃ, Colombia, at about 11:15 a.m. Saturday when a "nose wheel came off and rolled down the hill," the agency said in a preliminary report. More than 170 passengers who were aboard had to deplane, but no one was hurt, the report said. The F.A.A. said that it was continuing its investigation.
It's been a turbulent period for Boeing, which has been fraught in recent years with safety concerns after deadly catastrophes. The manufacturer faces renewed scrutiny after a door plug blew off a new Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 plane at 16,000 feet on Jan. 5 just after it took off from the Portland International Airport in Oregon. No one was seriously injured then, but passengers were exposed to whipping winds on the plane's harrowing return to Portland. The F.A.A. then ordered about 170 Boeing 737 Max 9 planes to be grounded in the United States until they could be inspected. The plane that lost a wheel in Atlanta on Saturday, a Boeing 757, is a different model.
It's been a turbulent period for Boeing, which has been fraught in recent years with safety concerns after deadly catastrophes. The manufacturer faces renewed scrutiny after a door plug blew off a new Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 plane at 16,000 feet on Jan. 5 just after it took off from the Portland International Airport in Oregon. No one was seriously injured then, but passengers were exposed to whipping winds on the plane's harrowing return to Portland. The F.A.A. then ordered about 170 Boeing 737 Max 9 planes to be grounded in the United States until they could be inspected. The plane that lost a wheel in Atlanta on Saturday, a Boeing 757, is a different model.
Diversity! (Score:4, Funny)
Our Greatest Strength!
Re:Diversity! (Score:5, Insightful)
I never got that tag line. Everyone knows UNITY is the strength, even from common phrases like 'A unified front' or to 'unify around something'. Diversity is a huge weakness in every regard except when you are talking diversity of talent to make a better whole. Like having a diverse engineering team full of product designers, developers, and test engineers. Even having different kinds of developers like those who find refactoring old code to be fun, and those who like doing the initial research... Diversity doesn't mean throw a bunch of different color people in a room and BAM! Profit! at least it didn't used to mean that.
Re: Diversity! (Score:4, Funny)
People want to use melanin level as the sort key, but it is a shit metric and waste of processing time.
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You oversimplify. There are lots of situations where unity imparts strength. There are situations where diversity imparts strength. And in the majority of each of those the other is needed. You don't have a football team composed only of linemen...at least not a good one.
Re:Diversity! (Score:5, Informative)
I worked at Amazon for 9 years, and their diversity is one of the reasons why the company is doing so well. Kids just out of high school work with people who are about to retire, I was on one team that had members born in 8 different countries, and people from the most racially isolated communities find (sometimes to their amazement) that people of other colors are neither scary nor that much different than themselves. It was great.
Re:Diversity! (Score:5, Insightful)
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What has changed is the people used to come here seeking to integrate to adopt the local culture.
This is straight up anti-American. One of the primary "superpowers" the USA has is the fact that we are a cultural integration machine, no country does it better. Many of the most pro-American people are first and second generation immigrants.
The fact that "American Culture" is an entity so nebulous that it almost does not exist is in fact the strength. We are the cultural Borg, we will absorb the best aspects of your culture into our own. Just look at our food, every culture has brought their cuisine,
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I work with a bajillion different people all around the world every day. I don't care one lick what color they are. I care that they know their job. But when you literally have a program called DEI it undermines the whole concept of meritocracy. Completely. It's enough to simply say we don't discriminate but no... Companies put quotas up to artificially juice the algorithm. I also appreciate the 2024 socially accepted racism you threw in at the end there and illustrates the mentality we need to overco
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The only instance of blatant DEI I can think of off the top of my head is when President Biden (then a candidate still) vowed a woman would be his VP, a black woman no less. No man, no black man even, no matter how qualified, was going to make the cut. If that doesn't make a good argument for my "DEI is not all-good" stance then nothing will convince you.
To be fair, the job in question (vice-president) is one that a massive number of candidates are equally-qualified for. This isn't "professor of obscure historical minutia" where there are something like five candidates on the planet. This isn't "cutting-edge quantum theory specialist" or "experimental brain surgereon". It's a mostly PR position where the only real qualification is "don't prevent the president from getting elected". Almost anyone could do the job. On that basis, saying "I'm going to cor
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What's your metric? If you are making the case that Pence, Biden, Cheney, Gore, Quayle, HW Bush were all "unqualified losers" then sure, I can't exactly argue against that.
If you are making the case she somehow, by the books she in unqualified you'd have to make that case.
If this was a corporate hiring task and I only had resumes to go off of she checks every single box: 2nd generation immigrant, Harvard grad, district attorney, Attorney General of CA, US Senator with a 60% vote margin.
I agree with you, I d
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If he said it out loud and I was around at the time, yes. It is just reverse discrimination regardless. Really, picking anybody for any reason other than 'This is the most qualified person for the job' is sub-optimal. I don't really care who says it... it's wrong.
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Sure but what if I have dozens of equally qualified candidate's at my disposal for a job (like vice president or Supreme Court Justice) then what are my decision factors?
Your job in making your case is to show that Amy Coney Barret was somehow unqualified for the job and she got despite being a sub-optimal pick.
This is especially hilarious when almost all Conservative judges come from a list devised by the Federalist Society who picks them not just on qualification but subjective partisan lines as well. AC
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It can only be about "winning and losing" eh?
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George Bush: All right, mister. You want trouble, you're gonna get trouble.
Homer: Oh, I want trouble, all right.
George Bush: Then you're gonna get trouble.
Homer: No, *you're* gonna get trouble.
George Bush: Oh, that's good, that's good, 'cause I want trouble.
Homer: Then we're agreed there'll be trouble.
George Bush: Oh, yeah, lots of trouble.
Homer: Trouble, it is.
George Bush: For you.
Homer: For...
[Bush slams his front door]
Homer: D'oh!
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diversity just means "hey, different people from different cultures, life experiences and economic backgrounds can offer a variety of thoughts and ideas that a monoculture cannot" which is like, totally undeniably true.
Of course a phrase containing the ubiquitous word "can" is undeniably true.
In this context, you are using "can" as a replacement for "might", which is just as easily replaced by "might not". There's no guarantee.
Different people from different cultures, life experiences and economic backgrounds can, just as well, get stuck bickering and fighting each other, achieving no result.
I'm experiencing this right now. New manager, coming from an Authoritarian Leadership culture in a team with Individual Leadership c
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Yeah that's why a hiring initiative is just that, a hiring initiative, not a "have a job forever initiative". Doesn't matter who the person is, if the person is a bad fit for the job they're a bad fit for the job. This is America baby, right-to-work, we can and will fire you for any reason (within the law)
Your new manager, where do you think he got that "authoritarian leadership" attitude from? Why was he hired for this role? Who hired him? What were the issues with the old manager? Who is keeping him on?
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this is transparently visible to anyone who's tangentially related to corporate life - is that it leads to the hiring of incompetent, destructively lazy people who (regardless of skin color, ethnicity, or culture) and make more work for everyone else while undermining the objective.
If it's so visible you should have mountains of evidence to back it up.
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How much evidence do you need?
Does this not qualify?
1) Preferential hiring of "minorities" is requires it by law and has been for decades (eg. affirmative action).
2) The President signed additional laws into place, which are being complied with, which require additional quotas (eg. Executive Order 13672).
3) There are more minorities being hired as a result.
4) a lot of them are barely able to communicate and do not meet the common bar of excellence. (Just go STFW, there's article after article of disastrous
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hiring someone based on their skill set is an advantage compared to hiring someone based on their ethnicity.
This is exactly what we need evidence for and a lack of evidence or evidence that is hard to find does not mean we just assume that this is what is happening, in fact we should assume just the opposite or just not make assumptions.
What most people will tell you is amongst two similarly qualified candidates the job might go the one coming from a disadvantaged background, most other things being equal.
My issue here is there are a lot of very strong opinions that are assuming there is tons of positive data to
Re:Diversity! (Score:4, Informative)
Huh. And here all [hbr.org] those [forbes.com] studies [forbes.com] show [stanford.edu] the complete opposite [forbes.com].
It's almost as if you're talking out your ass.
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As a follow up, this must explain why we have such incompetence coming out of the big schools when they prioritize children from alumni over other more deserving candidates.
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That's absolutely the same thing happening, yes.
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As opposed to incompetent destructive white executives...
Laziness (Score:2)
And lazy, don't forget lazy. Executives, despite looking or being "busy," are largely just as lazy as anyone else. Busy-ness is outerwear. Accomplishments can be bought to have. No work required.
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"DEI means diversity, equity, and inclusion!" but what it really means [...] is that it leads to the hiring of incompetent, destructively lazy people. [...] You could only be hiring Swedish swimsuit models or rocket surgeons as your ground crews and the result would be the same.
this is a great point: my company has a DEI department, yet we dont hire enough swedish swimsuit models.
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Right? I feel like this is horribly inequitable and I demand a correction.
Re:Profits (Score:2)
Boeing moved a lot of manufacturing to third party shops to save a buck. Machining and materials have fixed costs. If someone is doing it cheaper then there's a reason.
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The idea has some merit - the machining tools can be used more efficiently since the third party shop can do machining for other customers as well, not just Boeing, so their machines are never idle. But then again, the third party shop also needs to make profits.
Either provide a non-paywalled article (Score:4, Insightful)
Or just don't greenlight the stories.
C'mon, it sure ain't rocket science. Though it may be aviation manufacturing, considering the quality delivered.
Non-paywalled article (Score:5, Informative)
Delta Air Lines Boeing 757 Lost Nose Wheel Before Takeoff [archive.is], F.A.A. Says
The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating the latest troubling event involving a Boeing aircraft.
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USA is best government money can buy.
Go live in a country in Africa and come back and tell me how corrupt the US is in comparison.
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Whoosh!
Your corrupt cash goes much further in the USA. For example... here's an easy, ('cuz I'm lazy), reference [wikipedia.org] but I could go on [archive.is] and on and on and...
more citations for you (Score:2)
"Jared Kushner’s $2 Billion Saudi Check Appears Even More Comically Corrupt Than Previously Thought [vanityfair.com]"
"Through Ties to Saudis, Golf Deal Promises Benefits to Trump [archive.is]"
Trump Received Millions From Foreign Governments as President [archive.is]
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Have you heard about Jamal Khashoggi [wikipedia.org]? Seriously.
Re:Either provide a non-paywalled article (Score:5, Funny)
I guess the question we should be asking is whether this is just Boeing hiring cheap labor or is it the future of maintenance personnel in general as the next generation enters the workforce? If the latter this will start to spread across to everything.
Re:Either provide a non-paywalled article (Score:5, Insightful)
Good lord, this isn't Boeing. Boeing stopped building the 757 in 2004. Are you saying that it took them 10 years to deliver the last one?
Or do you think it far more likely that this is an aircraft that has been in service for at least 10 years, and Delta's aircraft inspection and maintenance regime caked their pants?
I'm all for giving Boeing the trip to pound town that they deserve, but let's at least look at the event through the lens that attenuates the image with easily observable facts.
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The last 757 to be built was in 2004.
This isn't a manufacturing issue, if that particular aircraft has flown thousands of hours without incident. This is a maintenance and inspection issue on the part of the operator.
Get real (Score:5, Insightful)
It was the latest troubling episode involving one of the manufacturer's aircraft
The last 757 was built in 2004. How is this a Boeing issue when a maintenance problem is most likely the cause?
I'm not a Boeing fan but these aren't 737-MAX or 737-900 aircraft.
Also, maintenance procedures matter. One of the worst air disasters in US history was caused by maintenance crews taking shortcuts.
The worst US air disaster in terms of loss of life was American Airlines Flight 191, which crashed on May 25, 1979, killing all 271 people on board. The plane was taking off from Chicago's O'Hare International Airport when a left engine pylon separated from the wing, causing the aircraft to lose control and crash.
The investigation found several factors, with the main cause:
Improper maintenance procedures: During an engine change eight weeks before the flight, damage was inflicted on the pylon structure holding the left engine to the wing due to using a forklift in an unsupported manner. This damage went undetected and subsequently developed into fatigue cracks.
Contributing factors:
Engine separation: During takeoff, the fatigue cracks caused the pylon holding the left engine to fail, leading to the engine detaching from the wing.
Loss of control: The detached engine severed hydraulic lines controlling the leading-edge slats on the left wing. These slats are crucial for generating lift at low speeds, and their retraction significantly increased the stall speed of the left wing compared to the right.
Aerodynamic stall: Due to the unbalanced lift and disrupted airflow caused by the missing engine and retracted slats, the left wing stalled, causing the aircraft to roll uncontrollably to the left.
Limited crew response: The pilots struggled to regain control due to the lack of clear information about the situation and the severity of the damage.
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Until we know which category it's just more negative news for Boeing and, regardless of the cause, may cause the flying public to lose faith in Boeing
Journalists are either short-selling stocks or being paid off by someone who is, so they are finding all the FUD they can. There is literally zero reason to find this story interesting.
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Or that Boeing is newsworthy so anything that happens to Boeing gets reported on.
Boeing's been in the news a lot lately, so events that would otherwise get ignored will be amplified.
It's just like how no one reports car fires unless they're in an EV, no one reports how ICE vehicles have difficulties in the cold weather, no on
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There is clearly a maintenance issue here but was it:
(1) The maintenance procedures were followed but they are deficient
(2) There is a design issue such that it can't be properly maintained
(3) Procedure wasn't followed
(1) since the last fucking plane of this series was built over 10 years ago, and there haven't been tons of reports of the many many 757 planes in the world having wheels fall off... pretty sure we can rule this one out.
(2) See issue 1, same applies. There are a LOT of these planes still in service and wheels aren't falling off on other ones.
(3) The most likely cause.
But it could also be:
(4) Freak accident that hasn't happened to other aircrafts. It's entirely possible that there were stress fractures tha
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Re:Get real (Score:5, Interesting)
The B757 was introduced in 1983 and manufactured until 2004, building over 1,000 of them. If it was a manufacturing defect or a deficiency in the maintenance procedures, we would have seen far more of it by now. Here is a list [wikipedia.org] of incidents and accidents over the span of the 757's operational life thus far - note the distinct lack of any nose wheels flying off the aircraft.
Seriously, hundreds of these flying almost every day for 20+ years, and some of them flying for a lot longer than that.
Operators love the 757 because it has some unique flight characteristics that make it a very desired aircraft for some routes - a narrow-body single-aisle airplane that still has a range of over 3800 nautical miles that seats ~220 passengers and only requires a 7000 foot runway for takeoff (9000 foot for the 757-300 "stretched" version). Oh, and it fits into an airport gate that serviced 727s back in the day, because that's what it was designed to replace.
Pilots love the 757 because it flies like a racecar if you want it to, or it can fly slow and smooth if you want it to. Boeing's biggest sin is that they have tried to make the 737 do the job of the 757 which results in a 737 that doesn't do anything particularly well, and in fact does a lot of things quite dangerously - a 737 MAX has to take off and land moving 20 knots faster than a 757, on half the number of wheels and brakes.
Boeing has been making very stupid decisions for 20+ years, but the 757 isn't one of them.
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Ok, so we can go a bit deeper in defense of the point.
This airframe was made in 1992. There are nearly a decades worth of older 757s in service. If it were from a 40 year old batch, then sure, one might suspect a 40 year fatigue issue to watch out for. If there were an fundamental 30 year time to failure in the engineering that was previously unknown, it should have showed up 10 years ago with the oldest 757 airframes.
It's true we can only go so far, but I think it only fair to counter wild speculation t
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It was the latest troubling episode involving one of the manufacturer's aircraft
The last 757 was built in 2004. How is this a Boeing issue when a maintenance problem is most likely the cause?
Boeing still manufactures parts. Want to place a wager on the age of the part that failed?
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I'll take a slightly different wager... I'll bet it doesn't come down to one part failing.
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Wheels, landing gear etc. are usually inspected, and refurbished by third parties. This would include materials analysis (checking for wear, stress cracks etc.) What do you want to bet that Delta used a "cheap" low-cost third party to refurbish those components. [rotablerepairs.com]
In this case the 757 was taxiing, it wasn't barrelling down the runway about to rotate. What others don't realize is how frequently wheel assemblies with tires are changed on aircraft. Why? consider how much rubber is scrubbed off on a landing; tire
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From https://enroute.aircanada.com/en/aviation/airplane-tires/ [aircanada.com]
So not once a week but a short haul flight doing multiple flights a day may see tires swapped as often as every 6-8 weeks.
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The tail number of the plane was N672DL, so we can also know that this one was specfically made in 1992.
So about 10 years after the 757 started being manufactured, and about 30 years ago.
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HOW DARE YOU! REASON WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
I'm expecting the next Boeing related article will be "I once rode a Boeing aircraft on a three hour flight and the seat was lumpy." followed by several pages of snark about how shit the company is.
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I did just take a 2-hour flight on a Boeing, and I can confirm that the seat was in fact lumpy.
Post on X or Facebook. The press will run with it.
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Correlation/Causation (Score:5, Informative)
Don't read too much into this. I'm not a commercial pilot, but I am a private pilot. Landing gear can take a tremendous amount of abuse, but parts do wear out. We don't know how many hard landings this plane has had since the last landing gear overhaul. 10,000 good landings will wear out landing gear parts. The airline is responsible for maintenance. Most likely, this is a 20 year old aircraft (Most 757's are old), and the failure has nothing to do with a manufacturing or design defect.
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This wouldn't be news if there wasn't a failed door plug recently. It's the usual news cycle of keepy-uppy. Once a story takes off, you just keep bumping it with little vaguely related tidbits to fill the pages.
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Pretty sure "plane loses nosegear upon takeoff" is going to be news no matter what the rest of the news is saying.
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This 757 is in fact 30 years old (N672DL).
Why does all the coverage seem to blame Boeing? (Score:2)
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The door plugs are _not_ a maintenance issues at all. That is just a lie on your part. The bolts on the door plugs are not supposed to need maintenance and especially not a few months after the airplane was made.
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The frustration for folks who follow this field is that "wheel detached from landing gear" happens once in a while and no one bats an eye. Then Boeing screws up the door thing as an echo of the MCAS problem, and all of a sudden people care and start manufacturing a pattern that comes from the door situation.
More worrying were rudder control bolts being loose/missing, but that happened before the door thing, so no one cares.
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For maintenance issues caused by the airline you'd expect to see the same airlines having a similar number of issues with their airbus aircraft (assuming they operate any) or any other brand of aircraft they have.
Airlines don't always do their own maintenance, often it's contracted out to others.
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For maintenance issues caused by the airline you'd expect to see the same airlines having a similar number of issues with their airbus aircraft (assuming they operate any) or any other brand of aircraft they have.
Airlines don't always do their own maintenance, often it's contracted out to others.
Airbus isn't currently the dog-pile du jour. Gotta beat the company that's currently in the sights. I'd imagine an Airbus craft could literally explode on the runway full of passengers and journalists would start the article by explaining that a Boeing craft spit out a bolt that caused the explosion.
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It actually happened. The Concorde accident was caused by a metal strip that fell off a DC-10. The Concorde type certificate was owned by Airbus at that time, just as the DC-10 type certificate was owned by Boeing.
A Boeing Farted (Score:3, Insightful)
I get it. Door plugs blowing off and broken MCAS systems are big news. But naming every time a Boeing plane has a routine malfunction as if it's news is just wasting people's time. It's no surprise nobody knows what's going on elsewhere in the world. We spend our time re-reading about how planes have maintenance issues over and over and over again.
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Loosing a WHEEL of the landing gear a routine malfunction? I wouldn't call that a routine malfunction, rather it's something breaking which should never, ever break. I'd call it a critical malfunction.
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They take a huge amount of shock. They need parts inspected and replaced regularly. It should never break if maintained but if it isn't touched for 20 years you can't call it a design defect.
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Who said "design defect"?
You said "routine malfunction", but then say this should never break if maintained? Planes should (and MUST) have routine maintenance, so a wheel falling off during takeoff is NOT a routine malfunction!
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Routine as in ordinary - meaning it wouldn't be reported on widely if it wasn't a Boeing.
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Re:A Boeing Farted (Score:5, Interesting)
Loosing a WHEEL of the landing gear a routine malfunction? I wouldn't call that a routine malfunction, rather it's something breaking which should never, ever break. I'd call it a critical malfunction.
I don't follow aircraft all that closely, but in both motorcycles and cars there are life-cycles for the most heavily used parts and best by recommendations for replacement. You better believe when it's a motorcycle I follow those to the fucking letter because I ain't faceplanting because I missed a routine part swap during maintenance.
I would suspect somebody on a maintenance crew somewhere is getting torn to shreds after this incident. Those nose landing gear take a ton of abuse during landing. Especially with some of the "used to be a fighter pilot" pilots at the helm. Last flight I was on, which was years ago now, bounced the nose a bit he hit so hard. Granted, he also banked harder than any pilot I've ever had in a big airliner, which was kinda fun, but some folks weren't very fond of it.
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It is possible that it was a decision from higher up to delay maintenance to save money. For example, the recommendation was to replace a part after a certain amount of cycles but the airline decided to increase the number of cycles. Of course, maintenance would be blamed for following directives.
Having been in the business world for as long as I have tells me that has the ring of truth to it. I wouldn't doubt that there was a lengthy discussion over whether or not it was wise to experiment for "over recommended durations" with passengers on board that ended with a big diatribe along the lines of, "What the hell are we talking about? It's an airplane. The only time that part is used is during takeoff and landing. It's already going to be on the ground. Who cares?"
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routine malfunction
What is routine about a wheel falling off?
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The lack of routine maintenance I would think.
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Planes having maintenance issues "over and over and over again" should be big news. The U.S. prides itself on being better than other countries, including things related to safety. So if air travel in the U.S. is degrading to the point that wheels falling off of planes isn't newsworthy (whether it's the fault of the airline or the plane manufacturer), then we've fallen even further than I thought.
This is what happens when you put MBAs in charge (Score:2)
The Front Fell Off (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Now they can charge an extra fee.. (Score:2)
It would be funny (Score:2)
if it wasn't so serious.
A Boeing Sphinx model, all real with missing nose.
unfair to boeing (Score:2)
All these Boeing lossage stories are unfair to Boeing, much as I think they are losers. Boeing planes are ubiquitous. If something happens, it's going to happen to a Boeing plane. The engine fire is on the engine maker, GE. The wheel falling off is on Delta Airlines maintenance. Only the door blowing out is on Boeing.
Whose fault is the wheel falling off? (Score:2)
Did the wheel come off because the service wasn't being preformed? If your wheel / tire comes off your car, you don't get to yell at Toyota or Ford (unless they did the work)
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"You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel... (Score:4, Insightful)
Another funny.. (Score:3)
Boeing Boeing Boeing Boeing...
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Who needs foreign state actors to sabotage your business when you have shareholders pressuring you to turn a profit no matter what so they can make money?
=Smidge=
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Hahahaha, no. They manage that all by themselves. Although they could become a competitor for Russian airplane manufacturers if they just reduce their "quality" assurance a bit more.
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Speaking of comical:
Delta Air Lines Flight 982 was preparing to take off from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport for a trip to BogotÃ, Colombia, at about 11:15 a.m. Saturday when a "nose wheel came off and rolled down the hill," the agency said in a preliminary report.
The "rolled down the hill" bit makes me think reality is getting closer and closer to a shitty sit-com or even a sketch comedy show every day. It's like all that scene would have needed was Yackety Sax playing in the background.
Re:Now it's getting comical (Score:5, Insightful)
The last 757 was built in 2004. That means this aircraft has been through hundreds, if not thousands of flights.
This is an inspection and maintenance issue, not a manufacturing issue.