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Minor Slashdot Changes 85

Posted by CmdrTaco from the ho-hum-its-saturday dept.
I subtly changed comment spill- originally articles switched to indexed mode once the total number of comments exceded the spill. Now, the switch to indexed occurs when the number of siblings excedes the spill. This makes more sense to me- extremely deep conversations could cause indexing to occur even if there were only a few top level comments. Added an option to hide scores if you really don't like them. Lots of positive feedback on Highlight Threshold too: I love that feature personally. I'm still working on the Login problems- but I'm not getting very far. Its cookie related though. Also, its Hemos's 23rd birthday today, so send him mail and wish him well. Lets see how much mail he can get *grin*.Update: 03/28 01:37 by H : Well, thanks to all of you yahoos *grin* out there, I've been Slashdotted-or rather, my inbox has. 707 birthday messages-and fetchmail is still going. Thanks folks.
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Minor Slashdot Changes More

Minor Slashdot Changes

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  • What is the default for new users? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Excuse me? What is your definition of censoring?

    If the default is set to 0: almost everything, that means only the most outrageous and idiotic posts get lost. Even newspapers don't print every letter they get from readers.

    Besides, there is a big box right at the top of the comment section for those of us who don't log on, and there's an option for the filtering level.
    If you want to read all the post and don't select that option, it's your problem.

    I remember reading these comments when a moderated newsgroup was set up. People refused to call it moderating, simply because they couldn't cope with the idea of community setting up some standard of messages they want to read, and in /. case, the comments are not even excluded, so there's no argument against that.

    And what the hell does open source has to do with comments? I fail to see the connection here. There are a bundle of different meanings for the word "open", even more so than for "free". I prefer the term free software myself, btw.. since my native languange has different words for "no-cost" and "freedom" meangins of the word.

  • Changes to /. (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I for one really enjoy reading about these changes. I am more tired of seeing people complain about the types of articles that are posted. Must be some weird "slashdot addiction" where people are unable to just SKIP reading the things they do not want to read....
  • Go to your user preferences and click the "Slashdot" box to disable stories about Slashdot.

    Tada
    Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda
    Pants are Optional

  • Muhahahahahahhahaha!
    Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda
    Pants are Optional
  • I think you can turn the recent topics icons off with the disable icons checkbox.

  • I would think a bookmark feature would be more practical. It seems like this would be much easier to implement and not too much work for the server. Just stick a "Bookmark this" anchor at the bottom of each comment. Each bookmark would be cookied, then the article pages could stick a bookmark list on the sidebar for each article, maybe even a "per article" list on the front page, or, if there's a bookmark for a given article, stick in a "Jump to bookmark" underneath it.

    I think that would be a nice feature, but then, I used Windows for about ten years, so how smart can _I_ be?

  • I love the new slashdot, it's moderation done right

    That being said, I'm still a little concerned about moderation. It seems to me, from watching a number of threads lately, that negative comments (even some bug reports or requests), especially when they come from AC's are demoted or ignored... THeresponse to those comments, even if the response is only a "positive" flame (Ie, "Rob Rules, you suck cuz you're an AC") get promoted... It's not unusual to see a whole thread, where the first thoughtful (negative) post is a -1 or 0 but the responses, no matter how banal (as long as they're positive) get promoted... It's just a moderator issue, but it's the biggest remaining problem I see....
  • I'm 23 too, and I think that everyone deserves to be the same age as Alan :-)

    Have a good one, and keep those pants on!
  • I'd sing, but none of us really want that. Trust me.

    ----

  • Something's seriously borken here... the reply counters on the main page and the comments page have been stuck in one place since yesterday, despite the fact that people have been posting comments. The new comments don't show up normally, either. If I drop my threshold to -1, they appear, and the comment counter jumps to the proper value... but the vanishing comments aren't ones that have been moderated down... most of them are Score:1 comments...
  • The > converted to > is not a slashdot problem but a netscape problem. If you check the page source you'll see that it is in fact > but netscape converts it to > for some reason. Probably in a standard somehwere but I'm unaware of exactly where it is.
  • So lynx support wouldn't be neccesary.

    File size would be a concern, but hopefully the Java applet could be stored elsewhere...

    It could be done. A lot of work (more than is really worth it, as I see things), but it could be done.
  • This is not news.admin.net-abuse.misc. You are not (presumably) Grub*r. Please, don't bring that "Freedom Knights" stuff to Slashdot.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong about filtering garbage posts, especially considering that Rob has even provided a means for people to view such posts. The default *should* be to filter that rubbish.

    There is a menu to change the filtering right at the top of the comments section. I think that is more than reasonable consideration. People do have a right to speak (although not necessarily on someone else's site or equipment); they certainly do *not* have a right to be heard or listened to.


  • [sung after "Happy Birthday", to the tune of "Down on the Farm"]

    Down on the farm... they all ask for Hemos.
    Down on the farm... they all ask for Hemos.
    Down on the farm... they all ask for Hemos --
    The pigs ask, the horses ask.
    They all ask for Hemos!!

    Cheers.

    -Ben

  • Some pages have a <UL> and </UL> bug in them. Try this link: http://www.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/03/23/1 058204&pid=0#1547 [slashdot.org].

    Also, when I was previewing this comments, my &lt; reverted to < in the comment entry box. This caused a problem because when I clicked preview a second time, it treated the < as an open brace for an html tag, but I had intended it to be inserted verbatim. Try it... Odd...

    This bug is really weird: If I am in plaintext mode, every &lt; is changed. If I am in HTML Formatted, then only the &lt; 's that have matching &gt; 's are changed. Odd....

  • What is the default for new users? (Score:3)

    by bjk4 ( 885 ) on Saturday March 27, 1999 @10:41PM (#1959698) Homepage
    Hmmm... I think the biggest problem is understanding how this moderation is supposed to work. The moderators are supposed to promote good, well-thought out and insightful comments. They are also supposed to demote stupid comments, flames, and way-off-topic comments.

    However, the moderators are *not* supposed to demote negative comments. Rob has repeatedly reminded the moderators that they are not to demote viewpoints with which they disapprove.

    This all means that your biggest concern, that what they see upon first entering /. does not include negative posts is a moot point.

    We do not necessarily want to expose newcomers and possible contributors to the verbose maniacs who swear, flame, and cannot make a contribution. We want to expose people to the average joe shmoe and better. That is why the 0-level threshold is good. We see all the average and poor posts, but miss out on the very worst comments.

    Finally, these comments are saved, so they are not completely censored, just pushed aside.

    -Ben

  • I'd really like to see high-scoring replies.

    Check out the "Highlight Threshold" on the user preferences page. It works great!

  • Sort by Score is the best thing to happen to Slashdot since,... uh... Slashdot itself, IMHO.

    I was getting sick of the rapid growth of Slashdot, and the crap that was getting mixed in, and haveing to sort through all of it. Now, I can sort by score, and see the best at the top. If I want to spend the time, I can scroll down and see the junk at the bottom (where it belongs) if I wish.

  • I kind of like this suggestion. There are stories about Slashdot which are pretty cool and I'd miss out on if I turned off Slashdot stories, but little system maintenance things could go in a Slashbox on the side (that's what I would like to see). Subtlely adjust the spill method isn't really a "story".

    And I really like all the changes, too. Rob's done a great job with Slashdot (and of listening to people to see which changes need to be made and which ones need to be ignored).
  • Happy b-day Hemos. Just finished my 22 a few days ago. Anyway, forward your b-day email from strangers to CT before it's too late and your inbox is flooded. Seems like a mean trick from CT personally, so you ought to get him back :-)

  • Likewise, I think all of the changes I've noticed of late have been either fair, good or downright terrific.

    Not meaning to offend anyone either, but I'm "quite sick" of people saying "I'm sick of seeing this". Some of the other posts mention changing your prefs, but even that shouldn't be necessary. Seriously, /. always has less than 50 posts per day. Saying "yeah, who cares" and scrolling down shouldn't be a problem.

    Maybe I'm sick of hearing about BeOS (I'm not, really). 1000's of other readers may have keen interest. Maybe 1000's more hate hearing about BeOS. Should we then remove it (or nestle it away in a sub-sub-page)? This can lead only one place: Slashdot representing only the lowest common denominator.

    Personally, I have only passing interest in BeOS, but I'm glad for the diversity that adds.

  • I actually sent him an e-mail, but I might as well jump on the "Happy Birthday Post Bandwagon", so here it goes...

    Happy Birthday

  • Likewise, ("once again") I meant no offense, and I took none. ( after all, I don't decide what's newsworthy :-) ).

    By all means, express yourself, that's what forums are for. It just so happens someone (me) disagrees, no big deal. Millions of people disagree with me on a daily basis...

    On the flip side, "I don't want to see this" posts do kinda' bug me, and I'm just expressing myself.

    All of this is a moot point anyway. You can filter it all away...

  • hmm.... why not have a diffrent color for every score? i suggest a rainbow-like scheme:
    -1=purple
    0=blue
    1=indigo
    2=green
    3=yellow
    4=orange
    5=red

    Or maybe use the resistor scheme (damn. forgot everything except that there are 8 colors.... IIRC one of those is white, so that means one for each level)

    or maybe a changing scheme? have some sort of "guess the scheme" thing?

    Just some stuff to think about.
    --The Tomer
  • Highlight mode is pretty cool. however, what if (maybe int the indexed modes) messages above the highlight threshold were actually highlighted? put 'em in red or some other stand-out color... just a thought.
  • The moderators probably thought that the thread was off topic. The flat mode is still there. There is a button at the top of the page with options Threaded, Flat, Nested, and No Comments.

    Hit Flat and then Change. Some of the user settings appear to have gotten lost in the recent changes.

    --Karl

  • Um, you implement that code to work in all browsers. And the code to make it so me (in lynx) can still use the old method hands-free or automagically. Then tell me what the file size is and how many more times traffic goes out. Then tell me the pages might take 2x more times to load.
    Deal with it.
  • ...unless you're viewing in threaded mode.
    It would be nice to be able to still do indexed
    spill, but in flat mode.
  • Interesting, like a changelog.html or something, and there could be a todo.html as well.
    Or a new section could be formed called `Small change to slashdot' instead of putting them in the `Slashdot' section, and then people who were not interested could hide that section.
    Maybe some people are not interested in the changes to slashdot, but myself I am facinated.
    My main suggestion for a change would to be to port it from mysql to a free database like nosql or postgresql. Even better would be to convince the mysql author to change the licence to GPL, but that is not going to happen.
    The bloke who runs linux-counter is thinking of moving to mysql. Oh, how I dislike non-free software.
  • >Sorry to be a butthead but you are the source of
    >Open source community and you're closing down your
    >openess

    Patsy,

    You forgot to plug NewsTrolls. Here, I'll do it for you:

    http://www.newstrolls.com

    "NewsTrolls, a site that doesn't censor like that Fascist Slashdot site. We don't make you change your settings (you won't find them anyhow). NewsTrolls: We cater to the lazy, inept, and complacent."

    :]

    Seriously, though, why do you feel so sorry for those who have no interest in taking responsibility for their own choices?

    This is how I see it:

    There is something to be said for good first impressions. If I were a Slashdot newbie and fell into a miasma of 'first post/meept/sux/rulz' posts, I'd be instantly turned off. Rob is obviously trying to present the best side of Slashdot as seen from the majority of its users (or in theory, a representative cross section thereof).

    You, as a registered Slashdot user, have the opportunity to tailor your experience in just about any way you want. Look around - Rob is doing everything he can to let YOU do what you want. If he lets it all loose, the site's appeal will suffer. If he doesn't let enough out at once, it'll look like it's barely used. If Slashdot were a remote control for a TV, it would have just gained about 3 times as many buttons for you to fiddle with. As a geek, you've got to love that.

    As usual, I can take an analogy and bend it even further:

    Cable TV doesn't pipe every program to the viewer on the same channel at the same time, do they? Is it censorship if a radio station refrains from playing their entire set simultaneously? Should Yahoo switch to a randomly generated flat list of all its sites so as to not make presumptions of what its readers want?

    Come on, let's get real. If a person is too lazy to turn the dial on their TV, that's not censorship. That's choice. It's not your choice, it's theirs. If they don't know how to operate the remote, and don't have the sense to read the instructions, then who are you to say Rob has to flip the channels for them (at the risk of drowning other new users in decidedly lame content)?

    You know, the sad and twisted irony here is this: There are some serious similarities between the pro-censorship zealots and yourself. Although I usually fall into the same group as you (I abhor 'true' censorship), I see you claiming to know better than the clueless newbies who first visit Slashdot - you 'know better' because they're not capable of selecting what content they can and cannot view. If there is a desire to see all and hear all, they have that option - just as someone has the option to selectively remove certain content from their environment. Don't treat people as if they were children, as they're not - isn't this a familiar argument from the CDA days?

    Do you see what I'm getting at? I hope so, this was a long post. :]


    - Darchmare
    - Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
  • > a new section could be formed called `Small change to slashdot'

    Would that be called the "Microdot" section"?

    :-)

    Cheers,
  • /.ing /.'s email server, double /. maybe some sites should take a clue and hire Rob .. Talk about stability
    Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I think the changes to /. are great, and I like to hear about them.
    BUT... on the subject of filtering out stuff you don't like,
    I tried this for Katz, but his stuff is still on my custom page.
    What gives?
  • Maybe I'm just a sicko, but I would actually like to choose a maximum score now and then, and wallow in the dumbest posts of any subject (Gnome/KDE comes to mind).
    • How about a page/button where /. sends a cookie which is valid forever (or a year or so) - this way I don't have to keep logging in all the time?
    • Sometimes when reading the replies to an article, I want to temporarily change my comment threshold (e.g. to 0 for a freshly-minted article, 4 for an old article with lots of comments...). Could the pref bar on the article page be set to only change the threshold temporarily (i.e. for that page hit only?)
    • I'd like to second the motion for a preference regarding the default score for posts (i.e. 0 for ACs, 1 for non-ACs). This way an AC who posts something mildly interesting could be on the same footing as a non-AC who posts something mildly interesting.
    Just some thoughts, keep up the good work! Now the prefs I implemented for my work's website look small in comparison. ;)
  • Yes, I am being the fly in the butter, here...

    Is the default set at 0 or "all posts" for a new or non-logged-in user?

    If it's allposts, cool, if it's still "0", you're censoring.

    Sorry to be a butthead but you are the source of Open source community and you're closing down your openess if you decide for a new user or a non-logged-in user that what they see upon first entering /. does not include negative posts.

    Most people do not change their default preferences. You know that.

    BTW, meept!, first post!, etc...

    --diva (Invisible Malcontent)
  • The correct order is Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet.

    If done, this clearly should go into preferences as not everyone can perceive the differences in colors.

  • Is there a standard address for RFE's (Requests For Enhancement), or do you just read 'em in your inbox along with bug reports, flames, and fanmail, Rob?

    Well here's one:
    Considering you don't seem scared of really hairy HTML, I'd like to see a reading mode of "tree", using mucho javascript and DHTML to visually expand/collapse threads. Maybe a layer showing the article you're reading, clicking on a node in the tree would zoom to that article (using a name=blahblah url's if you don't want to get hammered with a hit for every article). Sure javascript, layers, dhtml, anything that isn't pure XML/DOMscript/RDF/ivory-tower-whatnot is evil evil evil, but it sure would be nifty to use.
  • A lot of the frustrated and "not worth bothering" users that used to like reading comments until they have gotten this huge may possibly come back.

    It's true. Not only do I now read the comments again, I actually feel like it's worthwhile contributing to the comments because people might actually see them. Before the moderation/scoring system you always had to wade through all the random crap ("first posts", flames, stupid oneliner "me too"s, etc) in order to find the posts that are actually worth reading.

    Now that the moderation system is in place, tada, just pick a threshhold level, and you're set.

    It's genius. Really. I've never seen a system like this before, and it really works. Not only do users get a lot more control over what they see, Rob & Co get to dodge the "censorship" bullet. A fine bit o' innovation, and definitely one of the most important improvements to slashdot yet.

    Keep it up guys. You rock.

    - deb
  • How about have a slashbox with highlites of the changes. Then have a changelog.html page to list the changes a little more in depth, and have a comments section for it, just like all the stories. Likewise, you could have the changelog page in the format of the slashdot main page, freshmeat, etc. then have a comment section for each "story" on the page.
  • That would be ``Freedumb Knights,'' as that simply has a better ring to it. This kind of discussion usually popped up on news.admin.censorship first, and then later began infecting n.a.n-a.[meu].

    n.a.n-a.[meu] used to be decent newsgroups before I joined them. But they decayed rapidly--there was a point when the only reason to read it would be to see what the latest troll had done (at first, they were funny, like the Pakistani spammer or the NJSH or Johnboy Jr.), but in later times, they just got to be boring or downright nasty (like John McGrath, who killed ML.ORG for a few days, or the kind person who revengespammed me).

  • Try using the ``slim html'' feature (I believe it is labeled ``Reduce Complexity for Lynx, slow browser, Chimera, &c.). It makes /. so much easier to read--even though I typically use it with Mozilla (now that Mozilla is finally usable, I can run vrms(8) on my computer and achieve sainthood in the Church of Emacs!)

    /. looks nice with its intense table system, but it took a long time to renderin classic Netscape (Gecko renders it well, however; /. with complexity is probably a good Mozilla stress-test).

  • Flat mode (Score:1)

    by TA ( 14109 )
    Ok I found it but it wasn't obvious. I use Lynx, and with the new layout you don't see 'Flat Mode', you only see 'Threaded' and you have to select that link and *then* you'll find a menu with Flat Mode among them. Sigh. The new layout isn't so Lynx friendly as it used to be, now you have to know in advance what features exist and where they can be found :-(
    TA
  • When I view the comment, I get only one (no matter what view. Well, for nested, I get one sibling for at each level). I guess this is a bug in the slashdot changes.

    Also it doesn't seem to be recognising my password.

    James Henstridge
  • When it comes to /. stories specifically,
    it'd be nice to know what's changing,
    while not having it in the news. Blocking /.
    stories in preferences is almost a good
    solution, but it then forces me to exert an
    extra effort to find the log of changes,
    if I feel like looking it up. Put differently,
    I'd rather see a cumulative log of changes
    for a month than small bits and pieces here
    and there.
  • Once again, I only meant to suggest something,
    not offend anyone. OTOH, why can't I say I am
    sick of something (a personal feeling or opinion)
    when I indeed feel that way?
  • I certainly appreciate the hard work that is
    put into improving slashdot. However, I am
    quite sick of reading about every smallish
    change in big letters on the front page.
    Maybe /. could have a section where updates and
    improvement would be listed without interrupting
    the real news.
    Please note, I mean this as a suggestion, and do
    not wish to offend anyone.
  • Try the "Light" mode. It's on the preferences page in the "Customize Slashdot's Display" section. I use it. You might not like it, though, because it totally changes the visual effect. I use it because I still use Netscape 2.02, which doesn't support different background colors for tables and cells, so without it, /. is just black text on a black background.
  • I really like having the "Score: n" next to each
    message, but it would be real helpful if that
    text was in, say, red, if the score was > 1.

    That way, interesting replies, even indexed ones
    would be very easy to scan for when scrolling
    down through a page.

    Doc Technical
  • Slashdot-effect mailbombing someone is cruel and unusual punishment.. I like it! :)
  • I guess because I can login again!

    Although it happened after I replaced Linux with Solaris (let's just say I was having other problems and I want to get my $20 worth out of Solaris.) But maybe not -- I don't think Lynx and Netscape^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HCommunicator share the same cookie jar, do they?
  • Have you heard about the bug problem with wireless lans and only one assigned internet ip? NATs flying everywhere...
  • And without index spill I can't get the cool higlight mode.

    PLEASE FIX THIS.
  • Hey CT, thats sneaky! Anyway, I really like the new changes you made. Although with everything going on, it's taken me quite some time to find where you've placed the buttons ;)
    Also, it really WOULD be nice if, on the front page, it would also list the number of comments that I would see if I look at the comments and not the total number of comments.
    Anyway. Nice changes and happy b-day Hemos (yeah, I sent him an email too).
  • Oh, I forgot. Maybe this is far-fetched, but it would be nice to have comments read-marked :) It's not uncommon for me to read the same articles several times and it would be nice to only see new comments on the second viewing.
  • The "Updated xxx" field doesn't seem to be calculated based on the timezone.
  • Nice one, CT, but when's YOUR birthday? ;) ;) ;)

    P.S. Happy birthday Hemo!
  • I really like the new changes you are making.. I have found the threshhold way cool!! Keep it up.. don't listen to the whiners... geeesh, this is the coolest thing on the net and its free.. what else do they want?
  • I'd like to know if there are any sophisticated systems out there for commenting, or if Rob is sort of pioneering a new way of passive interactivity on the web. I realize that almost any decent site has commenting / forums, but as far as ratings, viewing options, and well developed moderating program...
    Also, this type of thing will eventually change the way people comment. A lot of the frustrated and "not worth bothering" users that used to like reading comments until they have gotten this huge may possibly come back. Rob's system has made the commenting system virtually flame-proof, depending upon how you set your options. In implementing the system this way, Rob has removed himself from that dangerous realm of subjectivity, and only the users can decide if they don't want to read some of the shit that has chased people with a genuine interest in comments away.

    Anyway, I think a lot of sites will eventually follow the kind of personalized commenting system that Rob is developing. Great job!
  • I like hearing about all the new changes so I can go and try them out.

    Rob should be proud of his work and be able to talk about it on his website.


    -Emilio
  • How ironic! An Anonymous Coward (who can't customize the slashboxes that appear) requests that there be a custom slashbox just for updates.

    I don't know, I just thought that was kind of ironic.

    -Emilio
  • I still think slashdot should have an area where we can view what's in the article pipeline. That way we won't bother posting stuff that's already there, and y'all can spend your time eating b-day cake instead of reading the same article suggestion over and over.
  • I like the changes, 'taco. I actually look
    forward to reading comments now, thanks
    to highlight threshold. Fun fun. Thank you.
  • I'd really like to see high-scoring replies. I've found several posts scored 3 or even 4 which just happened to be replies to an earlier comment, effectively burying them from my view.

    This should be an easy hack, I'd think... Just make the flat mode sort ALL posts by score, instead of just sorting the threads by the parents' score.

    Otherwise, keep up the good work!

    -Dan

  • Slashdotting his mailbox? Some birthday present. :)
  • One change I'd really like is a purely aestetical one.
    In the top left of the page there are references to recent topics in the form of images. Sorry, but I don't see what they are good for.
    Couldn't you put the ad banner there instead as to get ridof the dark blank space at the top?

    Thank you.
  • I used to read /. as A.C., but since these changes, which I really liked (thanks!), I signed up for a /. account. *EXCELLENT*!

  • I am really happy with the way that slashdot has improved in the last few days. I love all the changes you made Rob, they are fantastic. All of the new preferences are great to play with (I guess I just love "new and shiny"). The Moderation must be working too, because the quality of the comments is much improved. I am really enjoying reading the comments again. Good Job, and keep up the good work.

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