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National Semiconductor Selling Cyrix 74

Posted by CmdrTaco from the no-chips-for-you dept.
Rob Miller writes "National Semiconductor has announced the sale of Cyrix. " So if you have half a billion dollars burning a hole in your pocket...
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National Semiconductor Selling Cyrix More

National Semiconductor Selling Cyrix

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  • SOLD! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    550 people were sacked. Cyrix in terms of the MII product and other socket 7/370 parts will be sold, so have not been sacked. 550 people all over national have been sacked. Full conference call here: http://209.67.65.42/ccall/nsm/050599.ram

  • *sigh* (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is a shame, though I can't blame them.

    I've build a variety of Linux boxes on the MII, simple because a lot of people I know needed something cheap that worked halfway decently.

    I could put together a workable system for a couple hundred dollars.

    MII-333 $ 31.00
    TX-PRO II MB 51.00
    32MB SDRAM 32.00
    3.2GB HD 79.00
    36X CD-ROM 32.00
    3.5" Floppy 15.00
    AT Minitower 19.00

    Around $250 excluding monitor, keyboard, and mouse. And I would normally pick up an honest to god IBM keyboard for four or five bucks at the computer shows, a cheap five dollar mouse, and let them decide whether to buy a decent monitor or pick up a used 15" at the computer shows for around $40 a piece.

  • Well, in the x86 chip market, it seems we're down to three now - Intel (still the leader), AMD (catching up), and WinChip (whose chips, despite the name, work in OSs other than Windows).

    I personally have a Pentium II 266 and a Winchip C6 200, but I'll probably get a K7-based system when the K7 comes out, so I'll have one from each. Competition is good.

    PS - why is the WinChip 200 so damn slow? I don't use that computer a lot, so it doesn't really bother me, but it seems to be about the same speed as my dad's pentium 120 laptop...is it supposed to be that speed? Any idea what the Pentium Rating would be on that? (I like how Cyrix does that...makes comparison a lot easier)
  • Even worse, if you're thinking about laptops. Right now the only low-power x86-compatible processor out there is the IDT Winchip, which is woefully underpowered for a Windows laptop (it does manage to keep out of its way with Linux, though -- that's what the Netiers use, due to its low power consumption).

    -E

  • I think Cyrix is going away (Score:3)

    by Bryan Ischo ( 893 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @06:08PM (#1902842) Homepage
    I don't think Cyrix is going to survive in the x86 market. Everyone who is trying to compete with Intel is doing so by losing money. The only company making money in the x86 market is Intel. Companies like Cyrix cannot survive in this environment.

    I remember hearing a year or two ago about Cyrix's "Jalepeno" core, but after a while I came to realize that it just isn't going to happen. Cyrix is too far behind now to catch up. I've been wondering what they have been doing for the past 18 months when they have introduced no new designs.

    I put a Cyrix PR200 into a computer I built for my sister almost two years ago. It is still going strong and still meeting all of her family's modest needs. At the time, it was far and away the best value in the x86 market. Now I think AMD has surpassed Cyrix in bang:buck ratio. You can get a K6-2 350 for about the same price as a MII-333, and the AMD chip will beat the Cyrix chip in every way.

    This didn't stop me from putting a Cyrix PR300 (overclocked to PR333, although I suspect that Cyrix is selling the exact same chip as 300 and 333 just to try to differentiate the "top end" of their product line a little bit) into a computer that I built for my next-door neighbor for use at his business. That level of performance will be more than enough for the simple real estate management package he needs to run, and combined with a super-cheap built-in audio & video socket 7 motherboard, I was able to keep the price of the computer very, very low (sub-$450).

    I guess that if Cyrix goes away I will miss them, because their chips have always done very well for me. I just don't think that they're keeping up with the market at all. And they're at the lowest of the low end, where it's nearly impossible to make a decent profit.



  • Definitely sacked.

    The press release is here [national.com].

    (So hah, you're wrong, Jordy)

  • No I think I want a Lancair Columbia 300 [lancair.com] Or maybe a Lancair IVp. On the other hand I'm looking rather hard at a the idea of a Cessna Skyhawk. You can pick one up for under $50k.
  • well, the timing is a bit off - especially with the $5B payoff-er investment into AT&T to corner the settop box market with CE.

    Otherwise, if MS somehow slimes their way out of this DOJ thing (there's GOT to be an angle), I could easily see an endgame scenario of MS buying the remains of Cyrix and that would be all she wrote.

    Perhaps an intermediate holding interest would arise. Someone stupid like Compaq could buy them, then after two years of hemorraging, while MS shakes off the DOJ, MS picks up the remains for a song, and. . .
  • I've been seeing conflicting reports on this, with some saying NS isn't bothering with a sale, but is just sacking the workforce and closing down Cyrix completely. (A lot like Acorn did with it's computer division.)

    Personally, if I had large sums of money to spend, I'd be much more interested in that De Haviland Mosquito over in Canada that's for sale. No more parking problems!

  • Yeah, but IMHO it doesn't quite have the look of this guy [adrenalin.bc.ca]. :)

    Mind you, the Global Express can carry more people.

  • Oh, I dunno. Competing Corporate Execs flying to the same trade show would have a tough time choosing which to go for. :)

  • Title misleading... (Score:3)

    by slothbait ( 2922 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @06:44PM (#1902849)
    From the National posting, it sounds like National is selling a fab and giving up on x86 pin-compatible architectures (ie: MII and Jalapeno). They will continue to develop the MediaGX line of systems. Further, they will refocus on information appliancs (like that web pad thing that Cyrix is developing).

    --Lenny

    //"You can't prove anything about a program written in C or FORTRAN.
    It's really just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar."
  • Well, since a lot of Cyrix's engineering talent bailed out of CONVEX when it was in its death throws years ago, I imagine that they'll know what to do...

    ...of course that means not blaming the executives and primary stock-holders for being completely oblivious to market and technological trends.

  • Yeah, my father works there. NS employs a lot of people in Maine, and they could all lose their jobs because the faceless, brainless execs on the west coast wanted to play empire and try to compete in areas in which they were not competent to compete.

    -Eric
  • Maybe we should define cheap? I cannot help but think how much each one of those transisters costs. Last time I checked, Electronics 101 used the transister as the building block for circuits.

    Now we have a company like Cyrix using Memory Controller, Video Card, PCI Bus Controller, Display Controller, etc...

    If Moore's Law continues for the foreseeable future, where will it lead us? Are you seeing the trees or the forest? I think openning the data sheets will allow the gifted technologists to design and develope systems that create entire new industries. When the first copy machine was sold to business, did anyone envision how many people would use it to distribute Grandma's brownie recipe?

    Saying that Cyrix mainly integrated 3D graphics, or Open Source has a negative effect by eliminating jobs, is similar to judging a dangerous iceberg by the portion you see above the water ;-).
  • since amd has been complaining about only one fab (i guess fab 30 isn't finished yet), here's a great opportunity to get a new one, and keep up with the demand...
  • i could be way off base, but i don't think it would make that big of a difference, because who is going to donate a fab?
  • Linus, tell your boss there is a fab lab that has .18 micron capabilites going for cheap in Maine. Time for some prototyping or sample runs? ;)
    It is far enough from Redmond and Santa Claira I think.....
  • Good idea. Integer performance has outpaced the software on all but the bloated Microsoft OS's. Since Linux and Internet Appliances are the future it makes sense to use more transistors for FP performance boosts and leave the integer unit cranking at arount 200MHz with some fast onboard cache. I've been telling everyone to buy the PC around the 300MHz range and spend the extra $$ on the graphics and disk IO system (SCSI). Always good to hear differing ideas, keep em coming.

  • Re:Why? (Score:1)

    by PD ( 9577 )
    National Semiconductor is getting spanked by Intel. NS makes a lot of different products which could make a lot of money. Competing with Intel is expensive.

  • Re:Why? (Score:2)

    by PD ( 9577 )
    Back in the early 1990's Cyrix had superior floating point performance.

    Too bad they didn't keep that advantage. Floating point performance is more important than CPU performance for many games, and it would have made a difference in my processor decision.

    I bought an Intel Celery 300a because of the floating point performance. I will probably buy a K7 in the future because it looks like the K7 will beat Intel (but who really knows for sure?)

    Running Linux, my 300a Celeron isn't any faster than my Pentium 133. The system feels exactly the same. Compiles go quicker, but X runs just as fast on slow chips. That's because Linux is so fast on just about any computer, it's hard to tell the difference from ludicrous speed and "plaid." So, for my purposes, I don't care a bit about how fast the CPU integer performance is. The extra floating point kick makes a big difference when I am gaming though.

    Cyrix could have carved out the entire gaming niche for itself if only they had built a CPU with P-200 integer performance, but with super duper floating point performance.
  • Now wouldn't that kick some hind-ends.

    --bricktoad
  • Well, the Russians ofcourse.

    Seriously though, if intel were impressed with the simulations, they might fab some low mHz-high micron prototypes.

    --bricktoad
  • I guess I should have said MHz (not milli-Hertz)
  • NS' bean counters didn't expect there to be as much competition in the sub-$1k market as there turned out to be, so they bailed. The local news story is here [portland.com]. That link will change tomorrow (Friday EST), but it includes a picture of the South Portland plant.

    For chip historians (chip wonks?), the original Fairchild plant is to the right of the building as seen in the photo, just outside the frame. It is currently home to the new Fairchild spin-off.
  • to me, the most telling thing is that NS's stock _rose_ a buck fifty on the announcement that they're divesting themselves of that nightmare processor division.
  • Now let me think, who might be in the market for a chip fab? TransMeta comes to mind...
    Of course, I'm totally ignorant about chip fabrication... Would they need to retool? ;)
  • While you were there you could pick up Bill & friends and become a hardware/software juggernaut. ;-)

    BUY BILL! [ebay.com]
  • Just to comment- I have a winchip 200mhz running in a cheapo motherboard (430tx?), and its performance under linux is very snappy. I've got 64 mb of ram and run KDE and am constantly impressed with how reliable and fast it is.
  • Nothing new. Back in Singapore, NS has started making the Cyrix's since at least 1.5 years back. Now, they've just concluded their 1st round of retrencement, with a 2nd to follow.

    A pal of mine quit the engineering line because he felt the management wasn't going anywhere ever since they started making the chips, and since then they started losing $$$ (my mum's still there).

    I personally would like Cyrix to be a 3rd chip available in years to come (along with Intel and AMD), and though such announcements hardly call for attention, here's wishing them all the best as well with their new (if at all) strategies.

  • Re:Jobs (Score:1)

    by Erk ( 17215 )
    Well, I'm not so sure about that. Most people think that the whole semiconductor industry started out in California or Texas, but the truth be told, it all started in Portland out of Fairchild Semiconductor. So essentially, they were not diving into something new, rather just getting back into something old.

  • Jobs (Score:2)

    by Erk ( 17215 )
    The worst part of the whole situation is what it's going to do to the South Portland, ME location. The news.com article also mentions that they are going to be selling a controlling interest in one of their fab processes too...

    This sucks for my friends who are supposed to be working at National this summer. Doh!
  • I don't think National knew what to do with Cyrix. They were really only interested in the integrated stuff (witness that they are keeping the MediaGX architecture).

    There were a lot of rumors floating around when they bought Cyrix that they were going to kill the dedicated processor product line, but I don't think they had the stomach to just gut the company they'd just purchased. They probably would have been better off, as having a processor company with no forward design movement really hung like an albatross around their neck.

    Aside from the floating point and CPUID issues, the 6x86 architecture was pretty impressive at the time. I wonder if their failure to get the jalapeno/cayenne technology out the door was the Cyrix engineers' fault or the result of a lack of commitment on National's part?
  • Well, we have 2 x86 chip makers now, but we should be getting AT LEAST 2 more pretty soon (Rise and Transmeta).

    And anyway, this doesn't really matter THAT much. x86 is nearly dead and you can run linux on just about any chip you want. Merced (intel) and Mckinley (HP) will be out in a couple of years. Eventually, you might even see some of those Elbrus (sp?) chips around here. And maybe Compaq will start to drop prices for the Alpha :).

    Are there any promising chips that I missed? And don't even bother mentioning the *Sparc or MIPS....
  • (Off topic) Open Source Software is one thing, but wouldn't it be great if chip manufacturers would _finally_ be a bit more open about their designs, 'Open Datasheets'? Pffw...


    Somehow, I think that's probably a bad idea. Open Source works well because compilers are cheap (free for most of us) and its easy for just about anyone to write new software. Also, people can still make money adding additional features to Open Source projects for companies that are willing to pay for it.

    But, at least until chip fabrication is cheap enough for a small business to afford, the only thing "open source" chips would do is eliminate the jobs of lots of computer engineers or cut their salaries in half... and you know what that means... more engineers going back to school for their MBAs!
  • This may be true if they bought Intel (or even AMD if they continue growing) because they have the masses attetion. But with Cyrix, no one knows who they are so why would they buy it? And also if they bought it they would probably screw it up (like most of there software).

  • I bought a complete Cyrix P150+ system w/32MB of memory for $50. It upgraded my AMD 5x85 133MHz server (mind you, I'm running a tiny network in my bedroom, and basically use the server as an FTP archive and dialup IP masq host). It is one heck of a machine, although it does run a bit on the warm side, but nothing too bad. It keeps up with requests from my PIII-500, P2-450, P2-233 and the 5x86-133 just fine (although I wish I had a cable modem). They might have been better off if they found a way to run their processors cooler and with a faster FPU. A little bit of marketing might have helped too! Sad to see them leave....
  • ..Amd has almost no money left.
    I just hope they can get out the K7 and keep
    up with any initial problems, because we
    seriously NEED a competitor for Intel, and
    AMD is the only x86 chip maker with enough
    innovation.
    I _know_ the K7 will be a killer chip..
    ..some people try to argue that "why should AMD
    be able to do it, when Intel isn't"
    The answer is simple I think:
    Almost all R&D at Intel is going into the Merced, and not much is left for creating a 7th generation
    x86 cpu.
  • Or maybe AMD... then we would have fewer processor shortages... =) and more K6-3 and, in time, K7's Now that would be sweet... -G.

  • Meaning of this for AMD? (Score:3)

    by andrewchen ( 30185 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @07:42PM (#1902883)
    The result of this for AMD is pretty interesting, as they are now the major competitor for Intel (not that they haven't been for the past year or so). Even though it is conceivable that Cyrix could be bought and rematerialize as a strong company, as another poster pointed out, that's extremely unlikely.

    Research takes a *lot* of money, and because of this news that Cyrix is being sold, it seems extremely obvious that they are short on cash (and probably ideas).

    So has Intel won? It's interesting to think that Intel has established such a strong brand and product line that they've done what many predicted they wouldn't be able to do: defeat their competitors.

    Hopefully this'll wake some people up over there at AMD, that all the patting on the head they've been giving themselves due to their moderate success doesn't mean much-- they haven't really beaten Intel, but rather just established a niche for themselves. But Intel isn't stupid, and they're fighting back with their own lines of cheap relatively fast processors (Celerons), which can potentially eat away at AMD's little niche in the market.

    Anyway, it would be extremely pleasant if AMD's K7 did well. When I read the false reports against their machines, I was extremely disappointed, since it would definitely nice to see AMD do well against Intel. Diversity is always good.
  • Only half a billion dollars? The good news is, I know a buyer. The bad news is, I know a buyer.

    I remember one of the MS memos showing their concern with the high percentage of a computer price that is the OS license. I also remember one of their possible solutions was to build or buy a chip fab, and thus to lock you in at the chip level versus the OS level. Today, this is even more likely due to the shakiness of the Wintel alliance.

    If they can do this, there will be serious trouble for the Linux community. One reason that Linux is so popular is that it runs on a cheap, open hardware platform.

    If I were Bill Gates, I would be seriously considering a bid, and my largest concern would be sliding it past the DOJ. After all, he can put a EULA on a chip requiring you to run an MS operating system on it.

  • Yeah, why buy a Global if you can afford a 777?

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/index .html

    Then you can reserve an area for tennis or something. And a shower/bath afterwards.

    Breace.
  • Well, I'm not saying Open Source chips (or Open Design), but Open Datasheets. For a start.

    With datasheets I mean at least programming information, so that drivers can be written for OS's like Linux or others.

    I find that a lot of the time my company (one of those small ones) is just not able to use a certain chip because we DON'T want to use M$ products (in our embedded environment, strange uh?). This means we can't use the factory M$ drivers, which means we need datasheets to write our own drivers for our own OS (or Linux).

    Mainly the larger chip makers that don't have their datasheets available on the Web are a pain in the neck to get in contact with - example - NeoMagic: they don't even want to put me through to sales, let alone tech support. We don't fit in their business-plan, too small. So we use C&T because they have their datasheets readily available on the Web.

    I don't believe that providing programming information for a device gives away your internal design: if I want to know the programming info real badly I will get it anyway through reverse engineering. Believe me, I have done it.

    An other excuse that is used is that they don't want to 'support' the effort of third-parties writting device drivers.

    Which is complete crap. If the datasheet is good, no one needs support to write a driver. For the drivers I have written (I guess about 12), I have only contacted the manufacturer twice. The first time to tell them the datasheet had errors the second time to tell them their silicon had errors.

    And how difficult would it be to sell a couple of more chips to little companies like ours?

    I still hope for Open Datasheets but I'm sure Open Source chips will come too. The biggest part of a chip is actually software anyways (VHDL, Verilog).

    Breace.

  • 3D graphics, mainly? (Score:3)

    by Breace ( 33955 ) on Wednesday May 05, 1999 @06:46PM (#1902887) Homepage
    "The few functions that made their way onto the main chip -- 3D graphics, mainly -- were put there by National's rivals: AMD with 3DNow! and Intel with Katmai."

    What a load!
    The MediaGX has CPU AND Memory controller AND VGA AND PCI built into one single chip. That's hardly to be called trivial and I still think that's pretty neat. A chip that comes close is the STPC from Thompson, but they don't mention that. Good journalism. NOT.

    This chip is still a great device for wearables and other embedded applications. If only the support would have been better (try to find a real datasheet, or try to speak to someone) I would have probably used this chip in new designs.

    (Off topic) Open Source Software is one thing, but wouldn't it be great if chip manufacturers would _finally_ be a bit more open about their designs, 'Open Datasheets'? Pffw...

    Breace.

  • Re:Why? (Score:2)

    by Pont ( 33956 )
    ...not just Intel, AMD is a tougher competitor now more than ever. AMD has the anything-but-Intel-yet-compatible-with-Intel market pretty well cornered. Cyrix is relegated to the dirt-cheap sector, where there isn't much profit.
  • All the local suppliers don't carry them anymore for obvious reasons. When and what did they release last?

    SP

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