Virtual Models Come To Life 177
K. turned us on to this one: an announcement by Elite, the world's largest model agency, about a new division they've set up that supplies nothing but computer-generated models. Plastic surgeons may be in trouble if this catches on, but we all knew it was inevitable. The idea has been an SF staple since the 1930s, but this is the first time that computer-generated, animated models have been offered by a big-time modeling agency as a serious alternative to real, flesh-and-blood (and silicon) supermodels. I'd go into more detail, but you can get it all by going directly to the press release.
Lara will NEVER look real (Score:2)
Ehm, lack of technology is not the reason Lara looks unreal.
She'll never look real until the "artists" or whatever are given some education in human anatomy.
Don't hate the media, become the media.
Women's feelings (Score:3)
Women will deal with it exactly like they deal with the rest of real life. Are you telling us that extra-beautiful is bad because it may make some people have lower self-esteem? So what? If they have a problem with that, they should go to a shrink and sort out the insides of their heads. Not to mention that too-beautiful-to-be-real women have been around for ages. Should women have fits because they don't have the eyes of Boticelli's Venus? or the smile of da Vinci's Mona Lisa? or the body of Goya's Maja? What about the Vargas girls (Playboy 1960-70s)?
To continue this line of reasoning shouldn't Arnold Schwarzenegger be prohibited from public appearances because 99.99% of male population has nothing like his physique? Shouldn't we prohibit Ferrari and Lamborgini to make cars because the same 99.99% of population cannot afford it? Should we ban the TV show "The lifestyles of rich and famous"? (actually, the answer to the last question is 'yes', but for different reasons).
Nobody is perfect. If seeing perfection gives you psychological problems, it's your problem -- fix your head.
Kaa
Re:this will redefine/destroy perception of beauty (Score:1)
Why, oh, why? (Score:1)
This is what they did here in Sweden just a few months ago. They even changed the damn constitution so now we officially have censorship! (Even the so called liberal party voted for it. The only ones voting against it was the traditional right party. Just shows again (surprise) that all they care about is the power.)
My apologies. (Score:1)
You're right. I'm sorry I made a gender bias comment.
I do think trend-setting as a career goal is lame, though. Having a trend develop out of a creative endeavor is great. Declaring something a new trend just to get attention is weak.
Re:CGI? (Score:1)
There will still be lots of variety (Score:1)
cu there / jens
Re:I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:1)
However, I don't know where you live, but size 14 is average? Not in this part of the world!
I don't have any female friends which are over size 12 and most are around size 6-8. That would include my sister, my cousin, my g-friend, etc. So I know DARN WELL what they eat, which is A LOT! My sister and my g-friend especially continually graze all day and any given meal, they'll be able to wolf down as much as I can. And that is a lot!
(No, they don't really work out either).
Ranges around 5"-5"4 checking in at 100-120lbs is the norm here.
Re:The media *is* blamed for people's self esteems (Score:1)
Feminists ranting about models implicitly take a position that "if I cannot be as beautiful as that model, then that model has no right to be beautiful at all, or at the very least she should hide her beauty and not annoy me by reminding me of my imperfections".
With all due respect, I think the statement above is a simplistic and tenuous generalisation. I believe most feminists would not be comfortable with the "implicit position" you assign to them. I would imagine most would say that their ranting is mostly at the presentation of the tweaked images of models as if they were the real thing, and/or the implicit value placed on "beauty" rather than the other aspects of women, and the follow-on effects of that in society and personal relationships.
When you have people (especially impressionable young people) viewing these images and comparing to their own image in the mirror, the implicit assumption is that those images are "reality" and attainable. They are not - as any half-decent amateur photographer, or anyone who's played with Photoshop for 5 minutes will know. Failing that, take your closest "normal looking" female friend to a glamour photographer and be prepared to be surprised at the images that result. The image in the mirror is very rarely anything like the image on the page or screen - even for those "supermodels".
If feminist ranting about models is based on this sort of reasoning, I think it's perfectly defensible. Their argument is firstly more about the disingenous presentation as reality than about the "fact" that the models in question are more beautiful on some measure than the feminist in question. It is secondly about the whole beauty-as-measure-of-worth thing that is implied (or perceived to be implied) by the whole model/glamour/beauty business.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:CG vs. CGI (Score:1)
Well.. it's good to see that no matter what, the fasion industry will be dominated by silicon...
"From small chips, to big tits... silicone is really great!"
But can you fuck them? (Score:1)
Re:CGI Arnie... (Score:1)
For one, notice on tv, that there are quite a few guys who I would not think would be considered that attractive. However, it is far more rare for an unattractive women to get anywhere in showbiz.
For another, the way a man looks is less important to women than the way a woman looks to men. I think we can pretty much accept this as truth. Not saying that women never look at looks, just saying that it impatcs them less. That's just the way society has developed through the years. Certain reasons as to why this has developed go through my mind, but I won't waste space with them because I figure people can think about it and form the hyopthesis on their own..
And I am a guy, and I was just speaking from my own observations, like how I know guys who have a bit of a gut and when someone taunts them they will stick it out further and laugh, while I don't know a single woman who'd NOT be hurt by a comment like that...
Re:CG vs. CGI (Score:1)
Re:CG vs. CGI (Score:1)
Re:CG vs. CGI (Score:1)
Not sure (Score:1)
I came across a piece of software at Fry's the other day called "Face3D" or something like that - basically, it allowed you to take a couple of pictures of your head (front and side shots) and make a 3D model with your face mapped on...
Now, of course, this was all for Windoze shit - but anyhow, the resulting head texture would have been symetrical - so it probably wouldn't look totally correct. Couple this with an age morphing filter of some sort.
It is also possible to take a scan of your face and crop it to fit to a Poser model's head (for Poser 3, I think - the older Poser software didn't have enough resolution for the maps to handle it properly). Some guy did this not too long ago - check out my links for more info (in another earlier posting).
This whole virtual character thing makes me think of things like "Running Man", where they faked the video of the main character (played by Arnold) doing something real notorious to get him into the "game" (can't remember if it was the same in the short story or not). I would imagine we are close to the day where we could do this now (maybe not real time, but in the studio)...
Not that great... (Score:1)
Re:Not that great... (Score:1)
Lara (Score:1)
Did you know that there is a video of a german band ("Die Ärzte") where Lara is playing a major role (beside the musicians)?
Go Lara, go!
Gery
Finally. (Score:1)
GPL (Score:3)
Hackety-hack ...
Re:Beautiful bods (Score:1)
I was using lightly-colored eyes as a mere variable, not necessarily the desired choice. Personally, I prefer brown eyes even though I have blue.
Talisman
And then there's Anime (Score:1)
There are of course other examples, like Video Girl Ai [rigroup.com]. But if you're really interested in Anime, you must watch Ghost in the Shell [manga.com]. IMHO it's better by far than even The Matrix. How can you consider yourself a geek if you haven't seen Ghost in the Shell??
Pretty cool (Score:1)
It would be an interesting sway if the modeling world was overtaken by CGI. Then, perhaps, the exploitation of beautiful women all over the world will halt.
If you can call big money, great drugs, lots of traveling and fabulous parties exploitation...
Talisman
Man is the only animal capable of blushing, and he is the only one that needs to. - Twain
Re:unknown variables (Score:1)
I knew (a few years back, at college) a rather shallow woman who finally gave in to a persistant geek who kept asking her out. It was not a match that I expected would work -- she was a model and he was an EE geek. She did it out of a sense of obligation, I think, as he had helped her through calc. Out of pity. She ran into an old boyfriend that evening in a bar (I didn't see it, I heard). He was abusive to her. The little geek stood up to him and defended her (verbally, fortunately for him, as he was short and weak, although now he his not so weak due to judo, which he started the next week after this). She decided that he was worthwhile because of him taking a nearly suicidal stand against a guy who was threatening her. He married her a year later. They just celebrated 10 years last year. He is still a short geek and she no longer models but is still attractive. Logical? Well
Women leave the bar with the guy with "Born to Lose" tatooed on his lips because he seems powerful due to his lack of concern for social mores. The want the guitar player because everyone likes him, so he is therefore powerful. This is a basic need of women -- they want a powerful guy so their children will be protected. "Power is an aphrodesiac." Who said that? Henry Kissinger. Need more proof? The cave is still within us. That is tough for geeks, because we mature over a longer period, and women are looking (or their bodies/reptilian hindbrains) to breed by 15, so we get to be rejected for about ten years after than until we actually are recognized as powerful by most women and thus worth their time.
Hemmingway was supposed to have said something like "I know wimmins and wimmins is difficult." Well, yes, Ernie. But they are a little reliable.
Looking at this from the low end of my 30s, I see that my choices have gotten better and better, because the women on the dating scene have been burned so badly they deliberately deal with the fact that I am boring to see if they could put up with me long term. I like that. But waiting for that change was a pain.
a few points (Score:1)
These photos look pretty good - the model "herself" is pretty realistic, IMHO the skin tone and cloths are good but the hair is a little under defined currently - its the backgrounds that are not fully up to scratch.
That said I can imagine this sort of model being used on top of conventionally filmed images. Be interesting to see if it works.
Tom
PS:
As I remember actors contracts have had clauses in them dealing with electronic versions of themselves for years - personally I wouldn't be suprised if in 10 years time a big name film star was "working" on 10 films simultaneously.
Re:Women's feelings (Score:1)
Boob job question/comment. (Score:1)
Why is it that so many here on
Remember boys and girls
silicone == fake boobs
silicon == computer chips
Sorry about the rant, but I'm sick of this.
LK
The media *is* blamed for people's self esteems (Score:1)
Certainly quite a number of American women are obsessed with weight. I know a number of fairly intelligent women who work desperately to acquire or maintain a medically unhealthy weight. They feel they are "too fat", no matter what medical science tells them.
I tend to agree with you: self image problems are a result of the individual, not this whispy "cultural ideal" that is supposedly formed by models and entertainers. However, our voices are dwarfed by the large number of people who do blame the media. I find that quite a lot of women resent the modelling industry even as they try desperately to resemble models.
--Lenny
Re:Does anyone remember the movie "Looker?" (Score:1)
Beautiful bods (Score:1)
Our kids may and certainly their kids will benefit from superior genetic sequencing. In that sequencing can be included:
Big, firm tits
Nice, round, tight asses
Long, muscular legs (incapable of developing arthritis)
Flat stomachs (and the ability to eat anything you want)
High cheek bones, light-colored eyes, any hair color they want
and on and on and on...
Those unrealistic standards aren't too far away from being realistic. Keep 'em high.
Talisman
Re:Women's feelings (Score:1)
1. Men will more freely admit that they consider beauty important than women will.
2. There is more of a universal standard for female beauty. I've seen women I know argue about whether Leonardo DiCaprio/Brad Pitt/etc are or are not attractive. But it's probably very difficult to find a guy who doesn't want Cindy Crawford.
Re:Movies mirrored here (Score:1)
Re:The media *is* blamed for people's self esteems (Score:3)
So? There is a very old joke about an Englishman and a Frenchman watching a guy go by them in a Rolls-Royce. The Englishman says: "I dream of the day when I also would be able to drive around in a Rolls-Royce like that man". The Frenchman says: "I dream of the day when I will be able to get that man out of his Rolls-Royce and force him to walk on the sidewalk like I'm doing!".
Feminists ranting about models implicitly take a position that "if I cannot be as beautiful as that model, then that model has no right to be beautiful at all, or at the very least she should hide her beauty and not annoy me by reminding me of my imperfections". I agree that a lot of people feel that way (though most of them probably do not express it that explicitly), but that does not make them right, or make their position defensible.
Certainly quite a number of American women are obsessed with weight. I know a number of fairly intelligent women who work desperately to acquire or maintain a medically unhealthy weight. They feel they are "too fat", no matter what medical science tells them.
Certainly quite a number of American men are obsessed with money. I know a number of fairly intelligent men who work desperately to acquire an unreasonable amount of money. They feel they are "not rich enough", no matter that they are sacrificing their life in the process.
So?
Kaa
Re:CGI Arnie... (Score:2)
BTW, take a look at the bulked up action-figures that boys play with today, and compare them to the normal human forms of the G.I. Joe or Six Million Dollar Man of twenty years ago. Not a healthy trend.
Re:Max Headroom gets a date! (Score:1)
Re:I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:1)
A size 14 is not just big. It also has to do with height. From your statement of 5"-5"4 being average.. that is on the low side.. and most likely they probably arent wearing a size 14 because they arent tall enough.
Womens clothing sizes are not as cut and dry as a mans. When you buy mens jeans, you go by length and waist. However, women have hips.. and it makes things a bit more difficult. So lets say you are a women who is 5'8" and weighs 175lbs. Now.. not only do you need to get a larger size for the height.. but you need to find the right cut and style.. depending upon your hips.. and where your weight resides.
I am not saying that men dont have the same problems. It is not just as cut and dry as you wear a size 12 or above and you are fat. So before we judge what fat is.. we need to look at all the factors.
Besides that.. muscles also play a role.. the more muscles you have the larger your clothes will need to be.
So just because the average size of women is 14.. doesnt make the average woman fat.
And regarding how much you eat.. it isnt how much you eat.. but what you eat.
Re:Women's feelings (Score:1)
2 points are essential.
firstly, while the media might portray a model as
being *right*, the simple fact is that guys
actually prefer women with a more rounded figure
and a general feeling of warmth. And it doesn't
matter what men expect on a date, as soon as she
looks at him that way, then it's all over,
appearances go out the window.
secondly while perfection is relative, it's not
relative to what the media says, it's relative
to the childhood of the person. This applies
to males and females.
If you're looking for real answers, then the best
place to start is the mirror, because that's
where you'll end up in the long run.
cheers
Greg
Re:You're all missing the point! (Score:1)
Like RealDoll (Score:1)
Did anyone else get the feeling while looking at the pics of the models that the site reminded you of RealDoll [realdoll.com]? Not the sexual part, just the same eerie look...
Re:Does anyone remember the movie "Looker?" (Score:1)
Looker scared the poop out of me when I was a kid.
Not so much because of the murders, but because of that light pulse gun. I believe it was Albert Finney who was in that movie.
Anyway, I also believe that before George Burns died he agreed to have is likeness digitally recorded so that after he was gone they could make a 3rd "Oh God" movie.
While I'm at it, does anyone remember that episode of tales from the crypt where they tried to re-creat Humphrey Bogart through CGI?
LK
Re:Beautiful bods (Score:1)
You're all missing the point! (Score:2)
I can just image going out on a hot and heavy date wearing only software. That would be an eye turner!
TMBSNMOTW free OWIWNPA (Score:1)
This must be some new meaning of the word "free" of which I was not previously aware.
Re:Social Implications? (Score:1)
Pretty good, I'd guess. To be blunt (pun intended) I don't feel threatened by dildos. In fact, with CG models, maybe there will be less mental pressure to conform--the model isn't even real, it may not be possible to look like that, even. (And maybe, just maybe, it will cause a relevation that imperfections are what makes us human?)
What's the point of having a model that doesn't really exist?
You mean, like the mannequins they use to creat the clothes on? Or the paper sketches? These move, relatively realistically. I don't think they'll replace the final test on a real-life human model, but they'll certainly speed the basic testing out a lot.
Maybe, after the technology advances further, they could be used in an evolutionary system where a designer feeds in conditions (show thigh, don't ride up, show at least 50% of total skin area, but not more than 70%, etc. etc. and user that to design new and weird dresses in minutes...
Maybe this will begin a desktop designing industry much like word processors created a desktop publishing one.
I think it's cool.
And no, actually, I don't own Tomb Raider II.
Re:Ah, found it... (Score:1)
My four and a half useless Canadian cents worth...
My Mistake (Score:1)
My mistake... Its actually a censored ad for Duck Corporations Truemotion 2X Codec.... and the image is not quite the same as "The Chair" but its still kind of humorous.
Re:Does anyone remember the movie "Looker?" (Score:1)
Details at: http://us.imdb.com/Details?0082677
Re:Social Implications? (Score:1)
Hopefully, they're going to react the same way my wife did upon seeing Storm in an X-Men comic.
"Oh come on, no woman can possibly twist her back into that position!"
Re:this will redefine/destroy perception of beauty (Score:1)
Re:W0m1n (Score:1)
In "W0m1n" (by Anonymous Coward) on Thursday, we saw
One thing that will remain, at least, in the "new world" is the continuous fruitless prognosticating of doom- and brilliance-sayers, telling us that things in the future will be such-and-thus.
There is nothing about a technology which is inherently evil or good. Of course, since people are, mostly, venal and distasteful, the results of most technologies will be (or, to keep with the empiricist theme here, have ever been until the present) mostly bad. So what? Humans are nasty? Big surprise!
Re:Women's feelings (Score:1)
> as being *right*, the simple fact is that guys
> actually prefer women with a more rounded
> figure and a general feeling of warmth.
I've seen a few descriptions of some posters' ideas of what "more rounded" and "normal" figures are. From conversations of this type I've had in the past, I fear that 'more rounded and normal' means Cindy Crawford as opposed to Kate Moss. Cindy Crawford is extremely well rounded, she has wonderful curves, and just about anyone can admit she's a beautiful woman. But she's hardly 'normal'.
Someone once told me that gabrielle reese was an example of a woman who's more normal than supermodels.. Gabrielle is at least 6 feet tall and has rock-solid muscles, again not what I'd call 'normal'.
In my experience, the 'normal' woman is about 5'3, 150-160 pounds. That's actually not very heavy, believe it or not.
To get back on topic, the whole 'cgi model' thing scares the heck out of me, no matter how good the rendering is on the clothing. It's bad enough to hear about cindy (or how she hates to have pictures taken of her from behind because she thinks her butt's too big), even worse for young girls to feel like they have to compete with a 'woman' whose appearance can improve with a few minutes of photoshop.
I hope I don't have any daughters, or if I do, I somehow am able to raise them so that they are self-confident. Not sure how to do that
Re:Movies mirrored here (Score:1)
Re:Boob job question/comment. (Score:1)
Virtual Porn Industry Will Flourish! (Score:1)
Imagine the implications: as the processor speeds, 3D acceleration and modelling techniques constantly improve, virtual porn utilizing 3D characters will soon be available to anyone: in stand-alone programs as likely as in virtual chat rooms.
Most porn industry customers would be more than willing to play around with virtual on-screen models (or avatars controlled by real people, for that matter) that will humbly obey every perverse command, position, sexual intercourse, fetish, torment and humiliation the user can think of and wear any clothes, outfits and gear one wishes.
As the modelling process gets easier and easier, there eventually will be customisable X-rated 3D dungeon software, for which e.g. pedophiles can design their own 3D child models to play with (or animal sex scenes or any other weird fantasy world).
As soon as these products emerge and are of sufficient technical quality, there will be a huge pirate XXX software distribution all over the world. (Open Source, anyone?)
Combine this with computer-controlled, vibrating stimulator peripherals, and you'll get the whole picture.
Any one have a copy. It looks like it's gone. (Score:1)
Problem? (Score:2)
Sure, some guys probably work so hard that it's definately not healthy for them... this is also A PROBLEM.
First, no, this is not a PROBLEM. This is a [small font] problem [/small font]. PROBLEMs are things like post-AIDS demographic situation in Africa and handling of nuclear weapons in Russia.
Second, aren't you telling people what their value system should be? Let's assume that for me being thin is more important than eating a lot. I made a choice and decided on the trade-offs. Yes, I will not pig out at all-you-can-eat buffets, but my body will not look like a mound of jello. That choice is for me to decide. Sure it may be medically unhealthy, but so is living in a large city, eating cookies, not exercising each day, etc. etc. Your point that I should not want to be this thin, but who are you to tell me what I should want and what I should not want?
People make choices and take the consequences. They have a right to make the choices they want even if other people think them silly, medically unsound or politically incorrect.
Kaa
This has been done (Score:1)
They used digtally created actors to partially block some of the nudity and more graphic acts in "Eyes Wide Shut", and compositinig them into place. All this to knock the rating dwon to R from NC-17.
Re:TMBSNMOTW free OWIWNPA (Score:1)
Time is free because we have nothing better to do with it.
Hardware is free because government grants paid for them.
It's the philosophy the FSF is based on!
Re:I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:1)
The CGI model was of a good size... Ideal in proportions, firm in the right areas. Whomever did the model, has the same taste as I.
!Xabbu
Re:Lara will NEVER look real (Score:1)
Why needs human anatomy? Get a good plastic surgeon and you don't have to worry about what real people look like.
Finally ... (Score:2)
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Re:I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:1)
Re:I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:1)
I always felt that models were just overblown clothesracks. It's not that they look good, but that they make the clothes look good.
Ladies, here's a mantra for you: "She's not good looking, she's just Well-Dressed." :-)
This is not exactly a new thing (Score:1)
Kyonko Date still looked better. I don't have a valid URL for info on this, but if you search for "Kyoko Date" about a million fan pages will come up.
Re:Reminds me of "The Black Sun" (Score:1)
Then some algo will be made where your face could be decoded down to some 0s and 1s, where it would be easily indexed into a huge database. INteresting...
Re:Virtual Porn Industry Will Flourish! (Score:1)
I for one wonder what the legal ramifications of this will be:
If I'm making child porn based on images of one kid or a composite of several kids, at what point does it stop being digitized kiddie porn and become too fantastic or unrecognizable as a "child" for a district attorney to get a true bill of indictment from a grand jury?
I've noticed that a lot of anime is basically little-girl faces on grown-up bodies. So when they're rendered photorealistically, kinesethesiologically correctly, etc., but there's no way Sailor Moon could be eight feet tall with enlongated thunder thighs, is it still porn? What if she has no nipples and a little tiny heart down there instead of externa? Is that an 'out'?
If I had a thing for Judy Garland in the Wizard of Oz ("Surrender, Dorothy!"), and my custom remake of certain scenes were to get passed around to others with the same fetish, MGM (I think that's the studio that owns the rights) would move heaven and earth to find me and sue me, wouldn't they?
It won't catch on ... (Score:1)
ian.
Re:Women's feelings (Score:1)
Great. Maybe women will learn not to go out with such shallow guys. Then perhaps the divorce rate will begin to come down. Bummer for lawyers.
Idyllic Idoru (Score:2)
William Gibson captured this beautifully in his sequel-like novel Idoru which shared similar characters as Virtual Light which preceded it. Set in typical Gibson-esque post apocolyptic Tokyo, Idoru focuses on many convuluted complex characters and sub-plots. The central theme however is the cultural shock exhibited through the love/obsession of Rez [pop star] with a software construct [the idoru] who manifests herself as a hologram and on the Net... there are even wedding bells...
How many teen angsty boys fell for Lara as she fell and grunted sexily after the first few addictive moments of manipulating her with mastubatory strokes with the hot Playstation control firmly clasped in hand? I'm figuring a shitload...that breast enlargement "mistake" really paid off for Eidos.
Elite is a natural progression of what we've been spoon-fed for years as technology improved and our visual expectations become more impossible to meet in the physical realm. We're at the threshold of making our science fiction fantasies true. A little fantasy never hurt anyone..
Fashion photographers discovered Photoshop a long time ago and the airbrush has been used to make already impossible looking creatures something even more difficult to aspire towards for prebubescent females.
Yes this does create social illnesses such as anorexia blah de blah, feelings of inadequacy for many women as they try to emulate what they obviously cannot. The fault is not with women. We're not stupid. I'm thinking George Orwell here...some are more equal than others. It's the fucked up attitude of society and the confusion which reigns in the seperations of reality. There's no clarification... too many lost sheep out there [virtually speaking]. We're typically all ants being projected images which will maintain our consumer bent path. Fantasy sells -- some just have a little difficulty disengaging. It is unnecessary to make further social comment on this development.
I say a little appreciation of virtual babes [someone mentioned Vargas before and what about the fantasy pinup work of Hajime Sorayama?] on their own merits is in order -- nothing more nothing less. In the words of The Jam: That's Entertainment.
Ultimately I know that there's no way in hell that pair of Levis is going to look the same on my beanpole legs as they do on those 3D cyber goddesses [sheeeet... I'll have to turn on the filters first].
unknown variables (Score:1)
Interesting too what it means when different people create different 'identities' for virtual people. I forget, is Lara generous and easygoing or withdrawn and sarcastic?
Quick note on standards of female/male beauty: in our (still patriarchal) society, men can be sexy/desireable without being attractive. Not women. That's the difference.
Re:Boob job question/comment. (Score:1)
silicone == fake boobs
silicon == computer chips
So then what are fake boobs rendered on a computer?
The "average woman" (Score:1)
--
Re:Women's feelings (Score:2)
1) the feminists are actually trying to protect the right of normal women to choose what they consider is beautiful. When the male and femal population are both inundated with images of a certain type of woman, and both are told millions of times without variation that this sort of woman is beautiful, women suddenly are robbed of that choice. Bizarre as it is, men begin to expect Cindy Crawford (or the latest porn star, you guys) in every woman they date. When they don't get it (surprise!) both the man and the woman are dissatisfied and ultimately the world is a shittier place to live in.
2)"Perfection" is relative. These days, the "choice" hounds on this board don't get a say in what perfection means. I don't get a say, you don't get a say. Who does? The "women's" mags, TV, and movies. They have the money, so naturally they want to protect it. How better to protect their perfectly sculpted asse(t)s than to ensure there is always a very small number of "perfect" women in the world? I should think that on
-konstant
Thanks guys, but it's a bit more complex. (Score:3)
The pressure doesn't come from most men. It comes from other women.
I'm 5'10" and last time I was at the doctor's office, I weighed 187 pounds. This makes me 15-30 pounds overweight depending on who you ask (though the doctor said not to worry about it because other than that and my ever-present hypoglycemia, I am in very good health).
When I was a 13-year-old wannabe model, I was 5'6" or so, weighed in at 115 pounds, and thought THAT was fat. It's a damn good thing I'm hypoglycemic -- the headaches and dizzy spells I would get if I skipped meals stopped me from becoming anorexic. No joke.
I was also not-particularly-attractive-to-boys. After I went to college and gained weight, I had NO trouble attracting the opposite sex, or interested parties of the same sex. (Started college at 155, ended up at the aforementioned 187.)
Those who have seen my picture will swear "but you couldn't possibly weigh that much!"
Here's a clue, guys
I'm 5'10", and the average woman is 5'5" or so.
Women tend to lie about their weight because the socially accepted numbers are, for some bizarre reason, 5'7" and 115-125 pounds.
A man with my height and weight might be thought to be slightly heavy but wouldn't get the "you must be a fat PIG!" reaction. Granted, women on average weigh less than men on average. But even at the IDEAL weight for someone of my height (155-170 or so), others would have the "fat pig" reaction to the numbers.
Now, all that said, I've only been told that I must be, or am, a fat pig by two groups of people: clueless net-trolls (like the one who told me I'm too fat to fence), and heterosexual women.
Anyway, guys, whatever you may have been led to believe, the ladies aren't putting on makeup, obsessively dieting, etc. for YOU. They're competing with each other, at least in part because "beauty" is one of the few traditionally acceptable areas for women to compete with each other (or at all!) in.
And ladies
*grin*
Re:unknown variables (Score:1)
>in our (still patriarchal) society, men can be
>sexy/desireable without being attractive
If they're rich.
--
Re:Not that great... (Score:1)
Re:Not that great... (Score:1)
BTW, the site was
Re:Pretty cool - or maybe not (Score:2)
I'd worry more about women in general. "Perfect" CG models being held up as an ideal aren't going to do much for the average teenager's body image.
K.
-
How come there's an "open source" entry in the
Movies mirrored here (Score:4)
body.mpg [sprit.nu]
hipwag1.mpg [sprit.nu]
hipwag2.mpg [sprit.nu]
hipwag3.mpg [sprit.nu]
walk-1-dress.mpg [sprit.nu]
walk-2-dress.mpg [sprit.nu]
walk-3-dress.mpg [sprit.nu]
speech.mpg is over 5 megs but I'll upload it as soon as I get it here.
Anyone here on the Hash AM mailing list? (Score:1)
It was a website somewhere, got the URL from the Hash AM mailing list. The personal site of (presumably) one of the guys who's been working on this. I'll see if I can dig out the URL when I get home...
Otherwise, can anyone here fill in the blanks?
Paul
Ah, found it... (Score:2)
http://www.optidigit.com/stevens/ [optidigit.com]
Re:Idoru... Yeah, they exist (Score:2)
http://www.etud.insa-tlse.fr/~mdumas/kyoko.html
Social Implications? (Score:2)
I know there are plenty of Women who bemoan the fact that they "don't look like the models do". How are they going to feel when the models are computer generated and may have anatomical configurations not even possible in real life? In the computer they can tweak everything, muscle tone, body fat, hell they can even tweak gravity if they feel like it.
Further, aren't models supposed to show us what the garment will look like "in real life"? What's the point of having a model that doesn't really exist? It's going to be an idealized version of what the designer thinks the clothes should look like. You might as well just look at his inital sketches.
Re:Movies mirrored here (Score:1)
Joke (Score:1)
Not a Legal Excuse (Score:1)
I am not a layer, consult yours!
Okay, this question (of weather pics that **appear** to be children are treated identicaly to pics which **are** of children) has been raised a few times here before. As I recall, the legal concensus was that any **image** that sufficiently emulates children is technically covered by the child porn laws. Now in some cases (where there is a REAL model) this can be defended in court, (see your honor, she looks young, but she is ACTUALLY 20, etc.) But if there is no **real** model, I imagine the law will treat it **exactly** like kiddie porn.
-Crutcher
Re:Problem? (Score:1)
No more than anyone else here, including you.
He wasn't telling anyone what their values should be. He said that's up to them.
An eating disorder is exactly that, a _disorder_. I doubt that there is much weighing and consideration of trade-offs here.
Right. It's probably a medical disorder.
My point is not that I want to force people not to be thin. My point is that there are people who are suffering - most likely in some part due to the media who _are_ telling you what you should and should not want - and they should be helped.
Again, people trying to blame their personal problems on something they saw on tv or in a magazine. People with eating disorders often have other, larger issues to deal with. It doesn't usually just happen on its own. They need medical and/or psychological help. It's not the media's fault. There are many more examples of people who are just as exposed to the same media who do not have such a disorder. To say that the media is a contributing factor is no better than saying that sight is a contributing factor because it allows them to see that they aren't as pretty as someone else.
Re:TMBSNMOTW free OWIWNPA (Score:1)
Today, I suspect it costs a good deal.
In five years (if not sooner), the average Slashdotter's home system will be able to to it, probably in real-time, at a cost comparable to, say, compiling a new kernel.
Re:The "average woman" (Score:2)
OK, granted. I could, myself, stand to lose some weight.
However, I'd rather be 20 pounds overweight than a) yo-yo diet or b) have an eating disorder. It's also healthier.
I would have probably ended up with an eating disorder when I was 13 and skinny, but I am hypoglycemic and get severely ill if I skip meals. I also never "mastered the art" of making myself throw up.
As it was, I dealt with a close friend in college, who was at a "healthy" weight, who would eat an ice cream cone, say "I'm so BAD!" and go to the workout center for five hours. This is neither healthy nor appropriate. Neither was the officeful of women at my former job who all went on the same dangerous fad diet at the same time. I tried it for a day, got severely sick to my stomach, and almost passed out. It's not worth it.
And fine, give us models that are an appropriate "healthy" weight. Don't give us Kate Moss or men-in-drag-because-they-are-skinnier.
And given that plenty of people (myself and my 82-year-old grandmother included) are medically overweight but otherwise in very good health, "obese" when applied to someone who doesn't exceed the "ideal" weight by a considerable amount is about as useful of a medical diagnosis as "nymphomaniac" applied to a woman who enjoys sex "too much" by someone's standards.
Check out what is being done with Poser... (Score:2)
Here are some links to get you started:
RATTERS.COM - Poser Links [geocities.com]
A Mess of Poser Links [probe.net]
Poser Props Guild [gwz.org]
Greylight Internet - Poser Stuff [greylight.com]
Baumgarten Enterprises (Poser Stuff) [stewstras.net]
Paul Hafeli Poser 3 Inspirations - Great Poser Work [west.net]
The Blacksmith - Poser Props [geocities.com]
Paul Hafeli Poser Tutorials [west.net]
Bushi's Graphics Homepage - Poser Stuff [spiritone.com]
Digital Puppet Magazine (Poser in Movie Making) [jps.net]
Poser Forum [iguanasoft.com]
This is where the real action is...
If that's what you want ... (Score:2)
Join the SCA and/or hang out at RenFaires.
True story:
I have these two SCA friends, both female. One is quite petite, the other is quite large.
The petite one was pacing around her bedroom complaining that she felt unattractive because she didn't "fill out" her garb enough and men in that particular SCA group have a real tendency to go after the larger ladies.
The larger one replied, "Now you know how *I* feel next to *you* outside the SCA!"
And the lesbian fashion show sounds fun
-fable2112, out-and-proud bi-chick
Re:Idoru... (Score:2)
It has gone that way already. The model's called Lara. She only exist in computers and she advertises for different products (I've seen car ads at least).
Of course, Lara doesn't look real enough yet, but that is because the technology needs to be upgraded a few notches first. We'll get there. Soon.
I wonder how difficult it would be to write a supermodel AI? Do they think? Am I stereotyping now?
Does anyone remember the movie "Looker?" (Score:2)
Then, through the magic of computers, these models are synthesized, and some big thug with a gun kills off the real-life models.
It's a really weird, but worthwhile movie, and the computer graphics are a bit ahead of their time.
This could get interesting. Imagine taking a JPEG of someone, and have some program render a synthesized model to do anything you like. You could make that hand-puppet like in Johnny Mnemonic. fun!
Re: (Score:2)
Some points to consider (Score:3)
- I think a picture of a person has a different legal status than other types of pictures or computer generated images. What are the implications of this?
- Computer porno - these girls will do ANYTHING for free.
- Clothing, in particular fabric texture and the way fabric moves on the body is devillishly hard to simulate. Sure, they will have some stock simulated fabric types but what the model is wearing will never look/behave exactly the same way the garment does in real life.
- Some other people have pointed this out already: These models are not constrained by the human genome. They will eventually mutate into a gross caricature of the human form. Each fashion mag that uses them will tweak the current look just a bit. Bigger boobs, smaller waist, etc... Presto chango, eventually we've got barbie all over again.
-josh
I Was a Teenage Modeling Student (Score:5)
Back when I was a skinny 13-year-old wannabe actress in dire need of learning to be graceful, I was interviewed by a modeling school and told that I "had the look" and would be a wonderful model.
My family paid almost $1000 for the classes -- and that didn't include the high heeled shoes I had to bring so I could learn to walk gracefully in them, or the makeup and makeup brushes we were "required" to have, or the photo sessions.
None of it ever went anywhere, of course. And now that I'm a not-quite-skinny 21-year-old, I'm told that I'd be a good artist's model or perhaps "large size" model (I really hate that term -- the average woman wears a size 14, folks -- try "average-sized" model).
I agree with the person who pointed out that giving teenagers CGI models to "measure up" to is likely to cause more problems. It's bad enough that in some cases, men with padded bras are considered "better" models for women's clothing than WOMEN are, because men can get down to a lower % body fat without it causing health problems.
Sorry for the rant -- this just brought up some bad memories.
How's this different? (Score:2)
I don't see that there's any difference between a human faked up and a tatal fake.
Re:Social Implications? (Score:2)
I remember watching a PBS special about computer graphics in the modeling industry and watching as a graphics artist neatly sliced off the fatty portion of the inner thigh of Cindy Crawford and a baggy bit of her upper arm in a photo that, in real life, was not too flattering, but after not-so-subtle alteration, was featured on the cover of some women's magazine.
My point? Dissatisfaction with one's body is at a level where children and young adults are even getting plastic surgery:
BBC: Clinic considers cosmetic surgery for 11-year-old [bbc.co.uk]
BBC: More young women seek cosmetic surgery [bbc.co.uk]
and I believe that much of this has to do with this manipulative imagery.