The Flat Earthers Are Still With Us 578
narcberry writes "The BBC reports on a scientific community still holding to flat earth theories. From their article: 'Are there any genuine flat-earthers left? Surely in our era of space exploration — where satellites take photos of our blue and clearly globular planet from space, and robots send back info about soil and water from Mars — no one can seriously still believe that the Earth is flat? Wrong. Flat earth theory is still around. On the internet and in small meeting rooms in Britain and the US, flat earth believers get together to challenge the 'conspiracy' that the Earth is round.'"
Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think I can live with the flat earthers a good bit more than I can with the creationists. They're really out with an agenda. It's no secret that there have always been people with less than optimally functioning critical faculties...
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
The roundists have been spreading their lies for far too long.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
That theory is comedically easy to disprove. The distance from San Jose, CA to DFW airport is 1,685 miles. At five hours or so for the flight, that comes to on the order of 300 MPH. A bus traveling that speed on land would not make it. The tires would blow out after a few thousand feet at such a speed. Even if you could get around this problem with a new tire design, you'd still have the problem of hitting people and vehicles on the way. And, of course, if there were some elaborate theatrical production outside a plane traveling at such a rate, the people would fly away themselves. Oh, and I would add that with the number of people in and around these two airports, surely someone would have seen these 300 MPH busses if such a story were true.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Okay, but let's see this in the perspective of a flat earth as they call it. In fact the earth isn't flat our round(ish). It has it's own unique dimensional system. The Round Earth theory is made by the New World Order government (USA, 'former' USSR, China, Japan and the EU) after they discovered this Earth-specific dimension system.
This system is so complex, it's ungraspable for most of mankind, but that would lead to the realization by us proles that we're not as smart as we think we are, reducing our level of self-confidence to that of the non-NWO countries (the cheap labour slaves). So they invented the Round Earth theory by providing (manipulated) pictures of a round earth, all made by combining photo's taken from hot air balloons. Steve Fossett had a big role in this project, but about one year ago he had some personal issues with some of the conspiracists and he threatened to write a book about the true shape of the earth.
They also provide 'pictures' of other round planets, just to let us believe that there are more round planets and that it's a perfectly normal thing for a planet to be round.
But as I said, the truth is as good as ungraspable. There are all sorts of complexities involved. The teleport from one end to another, for example. It prevents people from falling off the earth (but it also (still) prevents us from knowing what's underneath the earth). It's easily exploited to cross the pacific ocean from Japan to the USA, for example. This teleport-thing also makes it possible to strenghthen the Round Earth theory.
And what to think of the amazingly complex gravitational system that puts us on the earth and manages to move the sun, moon and stars in predictable yet complex ways? They just recently started to understand this system and made use of it to place satellites in 'orbit' without falling down (how else do you think that satellites always stay on the same place? By moving just exactly as fast as the earth? Impossible. They're just hanging there in the flat, static sky).
It's exactly those people that managed to analyze the inner workings of the teleport and made their own teleports and placed them in populated areas around the world, calling them 'Airports'. They attached bird-like wings to the buses that bring people to the teleports, just to make them believe they were going to fly through the air. In fact, the plane doesn't come off the ground, it's just replaced with a laser projected version while the real bus ('plane') is taxied to the teleport to be teleported to another 'Airport'. The windows are in fact hi-res screens. The current system is still pretty slow though (but a lot faster than boats and trains!), but in the future it will allow us to be teleported to anywhere in the world in seconds. Maybe even with a pocket 'aeroplane', but that won't be released to the public before they find a way to masquerade it as something that fits in the Round Earth theory.
Oh, and btw, the Flat Earth Theory is made by the same conspiracists, just to give the non-believers something else to believe in.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
What we call light bulbs are truly dark suckers as well. That is why light bulbs are hot, just like the Sun. When a light bulb is full of dark and won't suck dark any more, it cools off. If you look in old light bulbs you can even seen the accumulation of dark.
Dark is also heavier than water. This can be seen in the oceans where the deeper you go the darker it gets.
(Source unknown)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Interesting)
Dude, did you happen to notice that manwillneverfly.com is tongue-in-cheek? The leader of this organization describes himself as "Chairman of the Bored".
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Informative)
I thought the guy behind Notice for Newbies [theflatearthsociety.org] post on their forums, "Professor Gaycunt" [theflatearthsociety.org] was also a bit of a giveaway.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Are you suggesting we all live on a disc? And what carries this disc? Next, you'll say something ridiculous like "the disc is balanced on the back of four elephants who in turn are carried by a giant turtle".
That's so silly I bet you couldn't even write a good fantasy story about it.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Funny)
So God is a cat? Why, now everything makes so much sense!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Somehow I'm thinking the intersection of flat-earthers and creationists contains a lot of the flat-earthers.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds to me like uou are unable to believe that there is nobody that dense.
Bob Heinlein wrote "Never understimate the power of human stupidity.
If people are so pusposely ignorant as to ignore the evidence about one thing, they will find it easy to ignore other truths as well.
I find it very believable that a small but vocal bunch of amazingly stupid people think the earth is flat. If they do, they will certainly have other foolish opinions as well.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Funny)
People want to be stupid and believe fantasy, it helps them cope with things that are beyond them, look at the 9-11 truth movement. Anyone, even Scientists, who try to shield their beliefs or theory's from scrutiny should be instantly slapped.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Funny)
I think I have found in you a kindred spirit!
P.S. Wanna fuck?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For rational people, "flat" or "round" Earth isn't a matter of belief or even truth. It's a matter of what geometric model works best to describe travel on or near Earth, best accounts for the movements of celestial objects, and so on.
For example, some flat-Earthers in TFA propose a geometric model of Earth as a disc with one "pole" at the center and the other at the circumfrence. Lines of latitude are circles, larger in the south than in the north. However, extra complexity must be added to this model to
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Science always gives you the option of reproducing results, if it deosn't then it can't be called science. If you are too lazy or stupid to repoduce the results for yourself but still insist they are wrong then you will quite rightly be labeled as an arrogant crackpot.
In
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Funny)
That is certainly no surprise. A large part of the people who work in IT support are the kind of people who confuse familiarity with computers with intelligence.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You can disprove flat-earth theory.
You can't disprove creationism.
That doesn't make creationism true, but it makes believing in it defensible (and if you don't think so, you're too wrapped up in your own worldview to realize most people don't need their day to day beliefs to be rationalized and provable).
We've seen the resulting universe from what may have been a big bang, or a sudden creation, or a complete non-event, but we have no proof of any of them.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
We've seen the resulting universe from what may have been a big bang, or a sudden creation, or a complete non-event, but we have no proof of any of them.
The moment you break out a word like "proof", you are already on the express bus out of Scienceville. Science is about coming up with theories that match observations, and can make predictions about future observations. The reason why scientists generally regard the Big Bang Theory as a good theory is because it fit observations made at the time and is confirmed by more observations made since that the theory predicted. When observations are made that don't fit the theory, the theory gets elaborated on (in the case of relativity refining Newton's classical mechanics) or outright rejected (luminiferous ether, phlogistons). A theory can be disproven, but can never really be proven.
Any reasonably honest scientist will cheerfully acknowledge that the current understanding of cosmology, evolution, or any other science doesn't represent the whole truth, or even a truth, but are models to explain what we see in nature. If science had all the answers, we'd have no need for further science research!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You can disprove creationism, and you can do it rather easily. Creationism doesn't stop with "God created man". That's the domain of the mouth-breathing religious zealot who knows nothing about the scary world around him, including the history of the Bible. Real Creationism "theory" has become far more developed as Creationists try to respond to challenges.
There are quantitative observations the deeper you go into the theory. Calculations of such things as the age of the earth based on the summation of ages
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
I completely agree. There is no scientific basis for the "flat earth theory". None. Zero. Zilch. They can use whatever "scientific" (pseudo-science in this case) means they'd like, but that doesn't necessarily make it scientific. It is a proven fact that the Earth is round. So are other planets.
I wish people would stop calling cretins who pretend to use science as scientists. It soils the good name of science!
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Insightful)
I know, replying to myself here, but I did do what's forbidden around here. I read the fucking article. These guys are god damn crack pots. The Earth is infinitely horizontal? Have they ever held a ball in their entire life? Do they have any sort of concept of perception?
What's even more irritating is that yes, they also believe the earth is circular, which sort of contradicts their infinitely horizontal theory. Someone important tell this dick-weeds to fuck off and stop breathing my precious air. I hereby decree that they are too stupid to function in a normal society.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
what's more fcuked up is that these idiots are breeding.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that Flat Earthers have the ability to get laid?
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
and yes i did compare the bible to harry potter.
flat-earthers? these guys do not get laid.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm at a loss to come up with any rationalization for believing the earth is flat, though.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Someone tells these humorless Americans that humor can take many faces."
When the crackpots (such as the creationists) invade your school systems, you'll lose your sense of humor, too.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe.. maybe not..
I had a history teacher in High School who purported to be a Flat-Earther. This chap was a very good humanities/history teacher. He had all sorts of ways to bring alive one of the more boring subjects (at least for teenagers who won't figure out for another decade or two why it's one of the most important subjects). This was also my wrestling coach. So for many reasons we respected this man. And he did have a good sense of humor.
But we had no idea why he claimed to believe the Earth was flat. To this day, I'm still not certain if this was real, tongue-in-cheek or yet another creative teaching methodology. He did put most of the students on the spot to defend why we believed the Earth was round. Almost none of us had any other answer than things like "but... but... people have gone up and taken pictures". None of us could explain how for several millenia all educated folk have known the Earth was round based a few obvious things such as the way a ship disappears over the horizon, the fact that the shadow of the Earth on the moon is always round and things like certain constellations going out of sight as folk travel north or south. This was well before the Google age where someone in the classroom could have found all that in a couple of minutes on the web.
In any case, you need not fear alternative ideas (even blatantly false goofy ones) in your school systems. If anything you should fear people trying to coopt the boards to ensure goofy ideas are taught in a non-critical fashion. But then, if you have any idea of the history of schools and school boards in America, you're probably jaded anyhow.
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes I wonder if the creationists are an elaborate parody too. Have you ever heard their arguments?
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed, that is a parody site.
Prior to the group's leader dying (in the last 10 years or so), there was a more serious website maintained, with documentation on their theories/beliefs, etc.
This guy had the global believers (yeah, global) pretty well organized - he'd collect membership fees, mail out newsletters, set up conferences, the usual for someone runnign a group. After his death, as expected, no one picked up his work, and things started to fall apart.
Don't let the parody site fool you. The Flat Earth people are as entrenched in their belief as normal people are about the world being a globe.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It did seem that way, but Tom Bishop spends an awful lot of time defending the theory, one might mistake the amount of time he's invested (average 9 posts per day, ~ 9,000 posts total) as something more than "humor" lol
Poor sod
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Informative)
The Flat Earth Society was created as a big joke in the first place. Most of the people posting there (myself included) are doing so as a tongue-in-cheek joke.
Yeah, there are a few nuts in there who actually believe it, but you'll get stupid beliefs anywhere.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah ... reminds me of some Richard Mitchell:
"Words never fail. We hear them, we read them; they enter into the mind and become part of us for as long as we shall live. Who speaks reason to his fellow men bestows it upon them. Who mouths inanity disorders thought for all who listen."
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, seriously speaking, it's obvious these guys are trolling, and they've put a lot of effort in it. Considering most of the slashdot community actually got angry at them I'd say they have succeded. Yep, these guys are successful trolls
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That being said, it's a great subject for trooling. And good troll will tell you that you need to make a post that is:
1. Obviously wrong
2. About a subject that's complicated enough that it would take someone significant time/effort to properly explain w
Re:Scientific community? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Scientific community? (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no scientific basis for the "flat earth theory". None. Zero. Zilch.
Are you sure, have you seriously looked at their arguments and considered them on their merits rather than you emotional beliefs? I'll bet if you sit down with a dedicated Flat Earther and had a debate, he or she would smoke you. i seriously doubt that the Flat Earthers believe the Earth is flat, but they do like taking the contrarian position and arguing it for the sport value.
They are idiots (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, I'm still sore that my donut shaped earth theory never caught on. Mmmm, donut.
Absolutely NOT funny (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's just a granfalloon, and they explicitly say so with that statement. I think there may be a scientific pursuit going on there - but in the study of human thought and interaction. They're examining coping mechanisms - the ways people twist their minds around to make the world fit what they believe.
Besides, haven't we all have to do an assignment in chemistry class where we explained an experimental result purely i
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Questioning Science is not anti-scientific. Taking ruling theories as absolute truth is unscientific.
Stuff like this should be demonstrated in schools to show kids how science works and learn them how to build and defend your case.
Wow.. Just Wow (Score:5, Funny)
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Watch your words you naysayers.
As it seems Paris Hilton will be president [is.gd] soon and I wouldn't be too surprised if the earth would be declared flat then - if only to "simplify things" a bit.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
- But, what does the turtle sits on?
- Another turtle.
- And that turtle?
- It's turtles all the way down [wikipedia.org]
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BBQ or Soup ?
Which is worse (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Which is worse (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't decide which is worse, the Flat-earthers, or the hollow-earthers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth [wikipedia.org] . I heard some guy on C2C the other week spouting out some nonsense about looking for a hole in the arctic that would prove the earth was hollow, I can't believe people still believe this crap.
Neal Adams (famous comic book artist, especially for Batman) is a big proponent.... check out his crackpot site: http://www.nealadams.com/morescience.html [nealadams.com] Actually, he's a proponent of the "expanding earth" theory which is even more crackpot.
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You even have an *idea* what you wrote??
Energy doesn't "convert" to mass and vice-versa. This is an *equivalence* equation, and not even a complete one because M is not M (as in rest mass) but also includes momentum.
If you can take any energy and magically convert it to mass (without the anti-particle), let me know. You'll get a Nobel prize in Physics.
Yes, all the energy ends up back in space as heat (regular light is almost heat anyway).
Now, if you said that the solar wind gets captured by Earth's magnetic
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I believe that the we're the ones who're living on the inside of the earth [archive.org]. The outside of the earth doesn't really exist though; instead what regular science considers to be the centrepoint of the earth is actually the very edge of the universe. Although if I bother reading your link a similar proposal is discussed there (attributed to Martin Gardner), but my link's to the site of a guy titled the Wizard of New Zealand, so it's probably more reliable than Wikipedia.
WOOOSH!! @ Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
Duh! (Score:2)
Of course the earth is flat.
Also, the internet is a myth.
Re:Duh! (Score:5, Funny)
Personally, I believe the earth is flat. I also do believe that the Internet is a myth. The Internet was created in an instantaneous moment when an Eliza program on a BBS gained self-recognition. What you read, right now, is really just this Eliza application that is creating exactly what you want to see. Since the software has gained so much knowledge, it is giving you the impression that you're actually talking to others, when in fact you're not.
The dilemma is whether or not I am real, or if I am just another creation of Eliza, the creator of all things web. You should be impressed that Eliza has taken such a strangehold on your life: forums do not really exist other than your own posts, and neither does FTP or ssh. All are just creations that Eliza has performed for you, and only you.
Makes you change your stance on how much time you're spending on slashdot with "us," doesn't it?
Re:Duh! (Score:5, Funny)
How does believe the earth is flat make you feel?
The OTHER Conspiracy (Score:3, Informative)
Don't forget, there's a conspiracy of NORMAL PEOPLE trying to steal your slack and preventing the aliens from rescuing all SubGenii on July 5, 1998.
See http://www.subgenius.com/ [subgenius.com] for more details!
Yeah, the Earth is flat! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
For those who don't know but can't be bothered*, http://www.sca.org/ [sca.org] (The Society for Creative Anachronism).
* ... so why do I care? Bloody sod you! Ignore this post!
Re:Yeah, the Earth is flat! (Score:4, Funny)
SCA is just LARPing, only slightly more insane.
Re:Yeah, the Earth is flat! (Score:5, Funny)
I love these guys because they will never, ever admit to the joke
It's like going to a Star Trek convention and talking to someone dressed up as Spock. He will never, ever, break character for the entire weekend.
Maybe not even after going home but that's between him and his mother.
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Flat earthers etc. are fine with me so long as they don't all join the school board and force the teaching of their ideas in public schools.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
The vital difference is that probably 99% of avowed Flat Earthers don't actually believe it. They are just playing a role and defending an absurd position as an intellectual exercise, like a debating club where you have to advocate a point of view regardless of your personal beliefs.
Not Necessarily News (Score:2)
I think that the term 'News' should not apply to a 500-year old debate. While it is a fun mental exercise to actually try to pretend "What if" these Flat-Earth theories are true; it can quickly grow tiresome like Loch Ness, BigFoot, and all the other crackpot stories you can hear at 3am on shows like Coast-to-Coast.
What is more impressive IMHO is that much more ancient cultures like the Aztec 'had it right' thousands of years before these 'Flat-Earth' ideas were new.
Re:Not Necessarily News (Score:5, Informative)
I think that the term 'News' should not apply to a 500-year old debate.
I think you're confusing two different things. 500 years ago people discussed whether the Earth was fixed of movable, but no one had any doubt whatsoever about it being a sphere. Earth's shape, and even its rough diameter, have been acknowledged scientific facts for way more than two millennia.
Fix your sentence to "I think that the term 'News' should not apply to a 2400-year old debate", remove your reference to the Aztecs, and your post will be in the correct time frame. ;)
Re:Not Necessarily News (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, the lunar eclipse happens when God plays frisbee and the frisbee flies across the disc moon that floats above our discworld!
I still have my BIG doubts... (Score:5, Insightful)
How do we know it's not a club of pranksters who want to fool the world into believing flat-earthers still exist?
Flat Earth belief is a myth (Score:2, Interesting)
There is no historical evidence that anyone ever believed the world to be flat. The idea is a relatively modern invention.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Given a sufficiently large population... (Score:3, Interesting)
you will find plenty of people that fall WELL outside the normal range. In my industry where I deal with millions of customers its always the case. Even if the earth were covered with only 1% of out of normal range people (which I think its much higher then that) that would mean 60 million or the roughly the size of the UK. If its closer to 5% then its the size of the US. Scary there might be that many people who think like that in the world.
Just as amazing (Score:2, Insightful)
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Of course the Earth's surface is flat (Score:2)
Dont apologise for the downtime yet. (Score:5, Funny)
From the Flat Earth Society Forums:
"News: The Flat Earth Society forums are back up! I apologise for the downtime. The problem has been resolved and won't happen again...."
Far from the several thousand kilometres of flat earth, comes the slashdot effect. Expect downtime again.
Don't... (Score:2)
BBC pwned? (Score:2)
Yikes. They're taking this (seriously) seriously. It is quite clearly a jape, but there are always some who will embrace it and fight for it as only a true zealot can. In a related story, they're being sued by Scientologists who claim prior art.
Encouraging... (Score:3, Informative)
It's encouraging that these same people are global warming sceptics. From their FAQs:
Q: "How does global warming affect the ice wall?"
A1: The Ice Wall is really a mountain range. It just happens to be covered in ice and snow.
A2: Global Warming doesn't happen. It and its counter-theory (Global Cooling) are effects that cancel each other out. Remember, these "greenhouse gasses" can reflect heat back out into space as well as keep it on Earth. Yes, there are recorded rises in temperature, but the only records we have go back, at most, around 150 years. This is very likely an occurrence that happens every [x>150] years, that's happened before (perhaps many times), and that the Earth has thus survived before.
Same as evolution, really... (Score:3, Funny)
Fake, fake and fake. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think someone is pulling a great prank. Just read this section in their FAQ:
Q: "What's underneath the Earth?" aka "What's on the bottom?" aka "What's on the other side?"
A: This is unknown. Some believe it to be just rocks, others believe the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle.
That's straight of of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And he got it from Indian (not Native American) creation myths.
Re:Fake, fake and fake. (Score:4, Informative)
I think someone is pulling a great prank. Just read this section in their FAQ:
Q: "What's underneath the Earth?" aka "What's on the bottom?" aka "What's on the other side?"
A: This is unknown. Some believe it to be just rocks, others believe the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle.
That's straight of of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series.
Not true. The idea that the earth rests on the back of a turtle is not new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down [wikipedia.org]
Pffft! (Score:3, Funny)
Pffft! That's nothing. There are still 9/11 Truthers left! And they believe that fire can't melt steel!
These guys provide a valuable service. (Score:5, Interesting)
They provide fodder so that the self-righteous Slashdotter know-it-all can feel superior.
I've met guys like this before, and a good portion of them are just being contrary because they know it bugs people.
Another good portion of them are suffering from some kind of obvious emotional/mental disorder which makes them difficult to be around. So yes, let's all laugh at the distressed people and jump up and down for the trolls.
The only real problem with these sorts of people is that they discredit any ideas which happen to have substance but which tend to get lumped in with and sullied by flat earth thinking.
-FL
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
And time is cubic!
Re:Why did this get Slashdotted? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is proof that the world is not flat. There will never be proof that God does not exist.
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