First, the education system here is based on some industrial-conformity training system devised by industrialists in the 1800s, or therabouts.
It is not really natural or right for kids of a certain age to be sitting in a desk all day. Boys especially need to have a break at certain stages of their growth, usually about 13-15 yo, when they should be sent away from home to some sort of boarding school/military school/vocational school arrangement, at least for a time. It all depends on the kid.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @02:23PM (#10179698)
Once again, Europe has us beat in this area. Just do what the most advanced countries in Europe do, and it will undoubtedly be twice as good as what we do.
If you'd read the book, you'd see we first started getting into this mess by "educators" going over to Prussia and bringing their system back over to the U.S. "Doing what the Europeans do" is what got us into this!
Note the phrase "most advanced". I don't know if Prussia qualified.
There's also the issue of then and now. Holding onto a century-plus system with no regard of advances elsewhere is bound to have a huge number of flaws.
First of all I'd LOVE to know where you got the engine weight on these cars. Second, the S2000 has to contend with the extra drag from its convertible top for milage, making it not a direct comparison to the very smooth RX-8. Third, let's talk reliability of these two. Hitting the rev limiter in the RX-8 even once has a large chance of damaging the seals, leading to costly complicated repairs. The S2000 is much more tolerant.
All I'm meaning to say here is that Felix Wankel made a lot of initial promise
I hadn't heard about problems with over-revving the Renesis, but I do know that the 13B in my 1986 RX-7 was reved to the limiter (8000 RPM) almost everyday for the six years I had it and was still running strong at 160,000 miles when I sold it.
I know that rotary engines naturally don't tend to be as fuel efficient as piston engines but I think that at least some of the difference between the S2000 and RX-8 is due to the 194lb weight dif
Hmm. If what you're saying about the RX-7 is true I'm impressed. I've heard a lot of horror stories from the rotary-freaks on campus about engines blowing up long before 100,000 miles. However, you don't need to wait until 2010 to see an engine with 27 moving parts last 10 years. My mom's current car is a '93 Civic Del Sol with 120,000 miles on it and only a timing belt change and oil changes. No rebuilds.
Come to think of it I know a LOT of 10 year old Hondas with no engine rebuilds. In fact, I can't
Most of the blown rotaries you'll see are either driven too lightly and succumb to carbon deposits or are run way too hard with lots of boost and a lean mixture. Pre-ignition will always kill a rotary in a hurry.
I'll point out that you're mom's '93 Del Sol probably isn't reving to 9000 RPM or making 120HP/Litre;-). There are 10 year old Hondas out there with that kind of performance/engine stress, but they're motorcycles and they very rarely go 10 years and/or 100,000 miles without major engine work.
Granted, the D15 is less extreme than the F22. However, the F22 is better built and uses better oil. I think this will have to be the end of this, as we can't accomplish anything else without more data, but I've enjoyed this and am glad it didn't degenerate into a flame war. I have 20$ in my pocket I'd put that an S2000 will work fine after 10 years if the bet were feasible.
You've enlightened me some about rotaries, which I'm thankful for, but I won't believe they have
The books author points out that Ben Franklin used arguing as one of the very best educational methods. The two above are arguing intelligently, apparently with facts, and calmly pointing out their views. The rest of us, listening in, are free to be educated (or not) as much as we desire.
I might point out further that the above posts, made verbally in school, would be met with a teacher (pedagoge) saying "SHUT UP!"
Yes, and so is the concept of the atom. And yet, we still learn new things about them every day.
Any practical science is going to have improvements as time goes by, to an almost unlimited degree. Until we have a complete understanding of the theoretical sciences, and for a while after that, this won't stop. The wheel has surely been around longer than any formal schools, and yet we still see advances. Do you think teaching/learning methods are somehow immune to technological advancement?
That may be the case here, but not elsewhere. There's a lady in Canada who has made some real advances in learning. Of course, she had a great test subject - herself. And then she started a school [arrowsmithschool.org] using her newfound knowledge. The school is for people with mental disabilities, but there should be little reason that the trend couldn't be advanced beyond whatever passes for normal. Her work clearly shows that the baseline isn't necessarily the maximum.
Also, you're assuming that the state of things in th
The original poster made the assertion that Europe has fixed the problems. The immediate reply (great grandparent?) came back with 'but Europe had problems a hundred years ago'. That's not a counter-example, and the original poster didn't have a logical fallacy that I can see.
All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
-- Ernest Rutherford
As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2, Interesting)
It is not really natural or right for kids of a certain age to be sitting in a desk all day. Boys especially need to have a break at certain stages of their growth, usually about 13-15 yo, when they should be sent away from home to some sort of boarding school/military school/vocational school arrangement, at least for a time. It all depends on the kid.
Once again, E
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:5, Interesting)
If you'd read the book, you'd see we first started getting into this mess by "educators" going over to Prussia and bringing their system back over to the U.S. "Doing what the Europeans do" is what got us into this!
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
There's also the issue of then and now. Holding onto a century-plus system with no regard of advances elsewhere is bound to have a huge number of flaws.
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Honda S2000:
Weight - 2835 lbs
Horsepower - 240
Engine Weight - 326 lbs
Milage - 20 City, 25 Highway
Weight/Power Ratio - 11.81 lbs/hp
Mazda RX-8:
Weight - 3029 lbs
Horsepower - 238
Engine Weight - 278 lbs
Milage - 18 City, 25 Highway
Weight/Power Ratio - 12.72 lbs/hp
Theoretical Weight/Power Ratio for S2000 with RX-8 engine 11.71 lbs/hp (and likely better mileage due to the lower weight).
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
All I'm meaning to say here is that Felix Wankel made a lot of initial promise
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
I hadn't heard about problems with over-revving the Renesis, but I do know that the 13B in my 1986 RX-7 was reved to the limiter (8000 RPM) almost everyday for the six years I had it and was still running strong at 160,000 miles when I sold it.
I know that rotary engines naturally don't tend to be as fuel efficient as piston engines but I think that at least some of the difference between the S2000 and RX-8 is due to the 194lb weight dif
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Come to think of it I know a LOT of 10 year old Hondas with no engine rebuilds. In fact, I can't
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
I'll point out that you're mom's '93 Del Sol probably isn't reving to 9000 RPM or making 120HP/Litre
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Granted, the D15 is less extreme than the F22. However, the F22 is better built and uses better oil. I think this will have to be the end of this, as we can't accomplish anything else without more data, but I've enjoyed this and am glad it didn't degenerate into a flame war. I have 20$ in my pocket I'd put that an S2000 will work fine after 10 years if the bet were feasible.
You've enlightened me some about rotaries, which I'm thankful for, but I won't believe they have
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
I agree we need more data. I'm glad you've enjoyed it as much as I have.
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
The books author points out that Ben Franklin used arguing as one of the very best educational methods. The two above are arguing intelligently, apparently with facts, and calmly pointing out their views. The rest of us, listening in, are free to be educated (or not) as much as we desire.
I might point out further that the above posts, made verbally in school, would be met with a teacher (pedagoge) saying "SHUT UP!"
Which only servs to further illustrate th
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
You are correct. The whole teacher-lecture style of learning is thousands of years obselete!
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
Any practical science is going to have improvements as time goes by, to an almost unlimited degree. Until we have a complete understanding of the theoretical sciences, and for a while after that, this won't stop. The wheel has surely been around longer than any formal schools, and yet we still see advances. Do you think teaching/learning methods are somehow immune to technological advancement?
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:1)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
Also, you're assuming that the state of things in th
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
Re:As a former teacher, I agree--it's not fixable (Score:2)
The original poster made the assertion that Europe has fixed the problems. The immediate reply (great grandparent?) came back with 'but Europe had problems a hundred years ago'. That's not a counter-example, and the original poster didn't have a logical fallacy that I can see.