I think when your ultimate goal is to slaughter and consume.. an animal stops being a "pet". And would sure make an interesting dinner, as your daughter chokes down Fluffy, her pet rabbit.
I mean.. it's an interesting report.. but I don't think anything realistic has been proposed here. They may as well have proposed we treat our cars as pets..
Why even bother looking at this stuff.. there's all kinds of other areas that could realistically be addressed. For example phone books! The amount of resources spent
but I don't think anything realistic has been proposed here
So little imagination. The "proposal" is implied.
This gem of enviro-wennie research will rattle around among the cocktail parties of the jet-set ruling class until one of them becomes convinced they can make a big splash by regulating pet ownership in the name of the "environment." Expect this to appear first in San Francisco in the next few years in the form punitive pet taxes. Thereafter limits and outright bans will be created.
Except for horses. There won't be any meaningful limits on horse owners.
Actually, maybe we should indeed be eating more different sorts of species to help "spread the damage", particularly for nonfarmed animals and plants. One of the other things I am very disgusted about is "bycatch" in the fishing industries.
In simple terms what happens is a shrimp boat goes out to catch shrimp, and then for every 1 pound of shrimp they catch, they throw away 5-20 pounds of other animals (fish etc)- which do not survive (usually dead by that time).
I believe the logic is that by preventing them from monetizing bycatch there is no incentive to "accidentally" grab some huge bycatch. Wouldn't want people to "accidentally" grab a whole bunch of dolphins for some dolphin meat black market or whatnot.
Limit the percentage of bycatch. And whatever is not bycatch has to be legal stuff. As for throwing away the juvenile fish, no, we should eat them - it is "unnatural" to not eat the baby fishes and instead only eat the big ones. It's "normal" for most fish species to lose millions of babies from each spawn. It's not so normal for them to lose most of the adults.
I know it's not easy, but I like eating fish, and there's plenty of scientific research out there that humans do better on diets that include fish (live longer, less depression etc). If regulation continues to be poor, lots of fishes will go extinct.
Yes it may raise the cost of fishing, but the "small time" fishermen in my country appear to still manage to scrape a living (albeit with some subsidies). So it might actually do them a big favour if the fishing industry stops being able to just "strip mine" the ocean, kill and discard stuff that their onboard canning factory doesn't have labels for.
Current fish regulation appears to work quite well where it is being used (A recent study was done, and found that fisherman in areas that have had only a few years are now doing as well or better than before the regulation, and overall there are far more fish).
Yeah that's the sad thing. Regulation can work, the fishes can recover (and the fishermen themselves actually benefit in the end). But so many governments refuse to do it - political reasons etc.
Well, most fishermen don't work during off-season. If they took only minimum wage jobs during the off-season, then they'd be able to supplement their income. That being said, maybe they have stuff that they need to do during the off-season. Anybody know?
Apparently you're not aware that half-baked, emotionally-driven random people from the internet know better than panels of researchers and industry experts with years of experience.
That would be valid if I were saying 'experts are right because they are experts' however in this context given the post to which I was replying the implied argument is more along the lines of 'experts are right because their fishing management policy has resulted in verifiable positive changes to areas in which it has been implemented.' Thus, no fallacy. And you imply that you've studied debate? I'd recommend hitting those books again padawan.
There might be no industry in history that so consistently shoots itself in the head the way commercial fishing does. Learn about the waste endured to catch those shrimp and then go to a typical chain seafood restaurant and see how much people throw away on the front end.
You attribute to the fishermen more control than they have. They're not in control of what swims in their nets, it's the very nature of fishing.
There are a growing number of people keeping chickens here in my city. Meanwhile, the legislation is such that they are not permitted to keep any whatsoever, so the cops and municipal workers are harassing people who wish to be more self-sustaining.
Personally, I'm about to start fish farming in my apartment. I've already got over 100 varieties of food bearing
Personally, I'm about to start fish farming in my apartment. I've already got over 100 varieties of food bearing plants growing in here, and soon I'll have protein in addition to vegetables. Should remove fertilizer for my plants from the budget too once the kinks are worked out.
Whoa - are there any online resources about this that you could link to? I had no idea people did this on a home/personal scale.
They've got instructions on how they did it in their own home, step by step, in addition to several other projects.
I'm going to start off with a nutrient film technique and look for plants that are immortal and have edible foliage. We've got a vine here, something from India I think, it kind of tastes like spinach and will grow forever if harsh temperatures don't kill it. I think I might start off with some sort of cheap non edi
You are correct regarding fish sizes. For example, catching only large fish has been shown to cause fish to evolve into smaller adults (as only small adults would be confused with young fish). Also, a large fish may produce a magnitude more offspring than a smaller, adult fish.
Regarding consumption of fish, just make sure to eat sardines and small crap like that, not tuna and salmon. Reasons:
1. large fishes will be extinct in no-time thanks to human over consumption
2. fish farms are fed sard
Good grief.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think when your ultimate goal is to slaughter and consume .. an animal stops being a "pet". And would sure make an interesting dinner, as your daughter chokes down Fluffy, her pet rabbit.
I mean.. it's an interesting report.. but I don't think anything realistic has been proposed here. They may as well have proposed we treat our cars as pets..
Why even bother looking at this stuff.. there's all kinds of other areas that could realistically be addressed. For example phone books! The amount of resources spent
Re: (Score:4, Funny)
but I don't think anything realistic has been proposed here
So little imagination. The "proposal" is implied.
This gem of enviro-wennie research will rattle around among the cocktail parties of the jet-set ruling class until one of them becomes convinced they can make a big splash by regulating pet ownership in the name of the "environment." Expect this to appear first in San Francisco in the next few years in the form punitive pet taxes. Thereafter limits and outright bans will be created.
Except for horses. There won't be any meaningful limits on horse owners.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Except for horses. There won't be any meaningful limits on horse owners.
Well, horses are one of the few "pets" we do eat after all.
Huge wastage (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the other things I am very disgusted about is "bycatch" in the fishing industries.
In simple terms what happens is a shrimp boat goes out to catch shrimp, and then for every 1 pound of shrimp they catch, they throw away 5-20 pounds of other animals (fish etc)- which do not survive (usually dead by that time).
Then a sardine boat goes out to catch sardines
Re: (Score:1)
I believe the logic is that by preventing them from monetizing bycatch there is no incentive to "accidentally" grab some huge bycatch. Wouldn't want people to "accidentally" grab a whole bunch of dolphins for some dolphin meat black market or whatnot.
Re:Huge wastage (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it's not easy, but I like eating fish, and there's plenty of scientific research out there that humans do better on diets that include fish (live longer, less depression etc). If regulation continues to be poor, lots of fishes will go extinct.
Yes it may raise the cost of fishing, but the "small time" fishermen in my country appear to still manage to scrape a living (albeit with some subsidies). So it might actually do them a big favour if the fishing industry stops being able to just "strip mine" the ocean, kill and discard stuff that their onboard canning factory doesn't have labels for.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Current fish regulation appears to work quite well where it is being used (A recent study was done, and found that fisherman in areas that have had only a few years are now doing as well or better than before the regulation, and overall there are far more fish).
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Said end benefits are cold comfort if the fishermen have starved in the meantime.
Re: (Score:1)
Well, most fishermen don't work during off-season. If they took only minimum wage jobs during the off-season, then they'd be able to supplement their income. That being said, maybe they have stuff that they need to do during the off-season. Anybody know?
Re: (Score:1)
They won't be any worse off than they will be a few years in the future anyway, and in the end everyone wins.
Fisherman can start doing better with more long term prospects, and we can still eat fish.
Re: (Score:2)
How sad, just like the people who were dependent on hunting the Great Auk.
Re:Huge wastage (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
"panels of researchers and industry experts with years of experience"
Industry expert being someone whose paycheck depends on there not being a problem with what their industry is doing, right?
Not surprisingly those "experts" tend to report that there isn't any problem with what their industry is doing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
There might be no industry in history that so consistently shoots itself in the head the way commercial fishing does. Learn about the waste endured to catch those shrimp and then go to a typical chain seafood restaurant and see how much people throw away on the front end.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There are a growing number of people keeping chickens here in my city. Meanwhile, the legislation is such that they are not permitted to keep any whatsoever, so the cops and municipal workers are harassing people who wish to be more self-sustaining.
Personally, I'm about to start fish farming in my apartment. I've already got over 100 varieties of food bearing
Re: (Score:2)
Whoa - are there any online resources about this that you could link to? I had no idea people did this on a home/personal scale.
Re: (Score:2)
I would suggest you look at the farm fountain project.
http://farmfountain.com/ [farmfountain.com]
They've got instructions on how they did it in their own home, step by step, in addition to several other projects.
I'm going to start off with a nutrient film technique and look for plants that are immortal and have edible foliage. We've got a vine here, something from India I think, it kind of tastes like spinach and will grow forever if harsh temperatures don't kill it. I think I might start off with some sort of cheap non edi
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
You are correct regarding fish sizes. For example, catching only large fish has been shown to cause fish to evolve into smaller adults (as only small adults would be confused with young fish). Also, a large fish may produce a magnitude more offspring than a smaller, adult fish.
Regarding consumption of fish, just make sure to eat sardines and small crap like that, not tuna and salmon. Reasons:
1. large fishes will be extinct in no-time thanks to human over consumption
2. fish farms are fed sard