But there's no charging at my apartment or work. And I get it, there's no gas station in either location, either. But I won't go to a public charger every two days and sit around for two hours either. So until my office or apartment installs chargers, It's not viable ATM. And I asked the office and apartment managers when they plan to install chargers - their answer (both) "Never".
"He also wants to provide [...] tax breaks for property owners to install EV chargers at their homes or apartment buildings. Lastly, he proposes to send direct subsidies to local governments to improve and expand the nation's network of EV charging stations. Schumer would deploy $45 billion in grants to upgrade the nation's charging infrastructure "
Property owner: "But I don't want to spend any money at all. I'll do it if it's free. Is it going to be free?"
City: no, it's not going to be free, and by the way, if you want to get a permit for anything at all, we are going to insist that you install EVSEs (what people commonly, but inaccurately refer to as EV chargers).
California did this with Solar, now requires solar to be installed on ALL new residential houses built...
That's one of the many reasons that the median price of a home here where I live is over $700K (yes, that is right) and a decent home in a decent neighborhood (ie: schools, parks, less crime) is more like >$900K.
And you think the Fed should start doing the same by requiring EV charging whether you have one or not too?
A solar install after building is around AU$14k for a ~10kW system. It would be a bit cheaper if done during the actual build. That's less than 2% price increase. Mandatory solar is not the reason house prices are high.
Prices are high because of demand, that's it. Everything else is buried by that factor.
Oh, only 14K added onto the base expense of the house, before markup. Yes, that can't possibly increase housing costs. The point is: The state has too few houses. The houses are too expensive. They keep adding costs. This would add more costs.
I've got a friend who recently tried to BUILD a house, a lifelong dream, in California. He hired an architect to design it to his exact spec. Bought land north of LA proper. Had to get tons of approvals, all slow. Local fire department demanded he put in a driveway in a
My house were I was quoted $14k for a solar setup was about $920k to buy, including taxes and other fees. Another $14k isn't much of a burden, except you need to front that cash upfront rather than paying off over 20-30 years like you do a mortgage.
When it comes to regulation increasing prices, this is a slippery slope - for example my country has experienced a few fires on apartment complexes where the cladding was not up to scratch, with subsequent deaths. Do you complain that fireproof cladding is driv
That's one of the many reasons that the median price of a home here where I live is over $700K
Where is this cheap place to live? The median price for homes sold in my city is $1.2M. A couple of years ago, someone bought a house down the street from me for $1.2M and tore it down, to build a bigger house on the plot. It's not a big plot.
To be honest, I'm sure in the cities like LA area and SF areas, the median is most likely way higher. The median I posted is for the entire state, which also includes the central valley and northern california that are more rural, so I'm sure those areas bring the median down. But it's not like you can live in Shasta county and work in Silicon valley, or live in Fresno and commute to LA.
Why would you call the inaccurate? That's what they're called.
To be strictly accurate, the only external EV "chargers" are DC fast chargers. If you plug in a level 1 or 2 device, which puts AC power into the car, the charger is in the car.
Calling them chargers is equivalent to calling the power lead to a computer a "charger".
This reminds me of the chemistry lecturer I had back in 1996 who was infuriated that the term "organic" was being used in relation to food in a way that had nothing to do with its meaning for chemistry. As though there were some kind of first dibs rule with word meanings. So pointless
I mean you can use your narrow definition of charger and call it what you want I guess. Doesn't really make you seem any smarter when you see something sold and labeled as an EV charger which you need to plug your EV in to charge it and you say "Well acktually that's an *unpronouncable acronym*", it just makes you seem like you don't understand words have different meanings in different contexts
As a past property owner with nearly 300 units under contract, I can tell you that we were barely scraping by after paying the mortgages, utilities, management fees, and upkeep. We would have done better if it weren’t for the roughly 15% of tenants who refused to pay their rent and had to be evicted, which can easily take a year and cost $1000’s in lawyer fees, plus the lost rent.
I know the image of the landlord is close to the little Monopoly guy, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Most landlords are Mom and Pops who are just scraping by.
Adding chargers to parking lots could easily cost millions what with tearing up and resurfacing the lot, buying the equipment, burying lines, probably adding capacity, and the charging systems themselves - which would also become a maintenance burden. Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
We could be having this same conversation with the same words in 1930 about basic electricity. Why have covered parking? Why have a pool? Why have anything?
At least 1930s electricity provides something new. We already have vehicles, reliable, time-tested, suits-our-needs, rapidly recharged, extended range, using non-rare resources (imagine making batteries by the trillions) vehicles.
And I've said it before here, everyone lives in their own bubble, unable to see into/understand someone else's bubble. For example, MOST vehicles are not kept in garages. Cars are piled on top of each other in large cities, when parked on the streets. Are we going to have
In that case let market forces take care of it, don't make it a mandate. Electricity was not mandated back in the 1930s. Sure, it was retrofitted in places where it made sense, but many areas went without for quite some time.
Now I'm have no issue with tax breaks or even subsidies, but any sort of mandate is unwise. Give the property owner(s) incentives and make their own decisions.
No car lasts forever, let alone ICE's, and as more and more of them land in the junkyards and EV's replace them, charging stations will start to become one of those amenities that places can advertise alongside things like a swimming pool or on-site laundry. Those may not be super common, but they aren't regarded as luxuries these days either.
Places without chargers will end up becoming so poorly-regarded that they end up not being able to keep enough units rented out, or at the very least, they end up onl
If you're too lazy to install proper wiring, but you have a sunny parking space, you could just order a solar charger. [beamforall.com] Supposedly the parking space can still be used, too.
Why does the landlord have running water and an electric connection? Without them he wont be able to rent the property. Same will soon be true for EV charging. I dont get the obsession with keeping people in business who clearly dont know how to run a business. if you cant make a profit without govt subsidies maybe you shouldnt be running a business and get a job.
If the government mandates something that's not profitable under any circumstances, no one is going to do it. Buildings generally don't need to be brought up to current standards each time a new standard comes out - only when something inherently unsafe is identified. Mandating these charging station in low income housing will likely just force the low income housing to close rather than make the upgrades - you've only created even more problems. EV chargers mandates for new construction make some sense,
If he owns four billion houses, and loses money on each one due to enforced requirements, it's not a question of feeling sorry or not. It's basic economics. He goes out of business, nobody gets a house, or someone else moves in and discovers it's also a money losing affair.
It's like complaints recently about supermarkets that went out of business in LA because the city forced them to pay $5 more in "hero pay". Those stores were probably on the edge of profitability, and it didn't matter if it was a conglom
Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
As a property owner myself, why would a landlord attempt to meet minimum expectations? The answer is to make rent. If you're providing low income housing you may be very right, but me I'm counting down the days before my tenants ask me to install a charging station and I start making a calculated decision as to whether I comply or I'm forced to lower rent as potential tenants move elsewhere.
The world is changing. The question isn't why would a landlord install a charging point. The question is when. Depending on where you live, that could be within a couple of decades, or it could be 50 years from now.
I am no longer a land but I agree it is a question of when. However I suspect we are no where near the lower rent point yet (at least not based on EV chargers being provided).
The question I'd ask is when will I no longer be able to find prospective tenants who don't care about EV chargers. Right now the market is such that you can probably charge a slight premium if you offer EV charging, but that will quickly evaporate. I suspect fairly shortly in most markets you will have a bifurcated group of renters -
Adding chargers to parking lots could easily cost millions what with tearing up and resurfacing the lot, buying the equipment, burying lines, probably adding capacity, and the charging systems themselves - which would also become a maintenance burden. Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
OK, let's look at it. Suppose that you have an underground garage in your apartment building. If you do installation for at least 20 parking stalls then the per-stall cost will be around $400. EVSE is not yet as cheap as it can get ($300 for cheapest units) but it should go down to $150 or so, there's simply nothing expensive inside. Other than that, you need metal cable conduits, wires and electrician to connect it. It's all pretty straightforward.
Now, let's say you charge your tenants 3 cents above the
I'd love an EV (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:5, Informative)
"He also wants to provide [...] tax breaks for property owners to install EV chargers at their homes or apartment buildings. Lastly, he proposes to send direct subsidies to local governments to improve and expand the nation's network of EV charging stations. Schumer would deploy $45 billion in grants to upgrade the nation's charging infrastructure "
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:3)
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:4, Informative)
City: no, it's not going to be free, and by the way, if you want to get a permit for anything at all, we are going to insist that you install EVSEs (what people commonly, but inaccurately refer to as EV chargers).
Re: (Score:2)
That's one of the many reasons that the median price of a home here where I live is over $700K (yes, that is right) and a decent home in a decent neighborhood (ie: schools, parks, less crime) is more like >$900K.
And you think the Fed should start doing the same by requiring EV charging whether you have one or not too?
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:5, Informative)
Prices are high because of demand, that's it. Everything else is buried by that factor.
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Oh, only 14K added onto the base expense of the house, before markup. Yes, that can't possibly increase housing costs.
The point is: The state has too few houses. The houses are too expensive. They keep adding costs. This would add more costs.
I've got a friend who recently tried to BUILD a house, a lifelong dream, in California. He hired an architect to design it to his exact spec. Bought land north of LA proper. Had to get tons of approvals, all slow. Local fire department demanded he put in a driveway in a
Re: (Score:2)
When it comes to regulation increasing prices, this is a slippery slope - for example my country has experienced a few fires on apartment complexes where the cladding was not up to scratch, with subsequent deaths.
Do you complain that fireproof cladding is driv
Re: (Score:2)
Where is this cheap place to live? The median price for homes sold in my city is $1.2M. A couple of years ago, someone bought a house down the street from me for $1.2M and tore it down, to build a bigger house on the plot. It's not a big plot.
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Why would you call the inaccurate? That's what they're called.
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To be strictly accurate, the only external EV "chargers" are DC fast chargers. If you plug in a level 1 or 2 device, which puts AC power into the car, the charger is in the car.
Calling them chargers is equivalent to calling the power lead to a computer a "charger".
Re: (Score:2)
This reminds me of the chemistry lecturer I had back in 1996 who was infuriated that the term "organic" was being used in relation to food in a way that had nothing to do with its meaning for chemistry. As though there were some kind of first dibs rule with word meanings. So pointless
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Ok, but that's still what they're called. It's a device to charge your EV. What you're thinking of is a transformer.
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No, it's not. The charger is in the car. It's akin to a power lead.
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I mean you can use your narrow definition of charger and call it what you want I guess. Doesn't really make you seem any smarter when you see something sold and labeled as an EV charger which you need to plug your EV in to charge it and you say "Well acktually that's an *unpronouncable acronym*", it just makes you seem like you don't understand words have different meanings in different contexts
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So you are now acknowledging that, when I wrote: "what people commonly, but inaccurately refer to as EV chargers", I was correct. Thank you.
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If you ignore the other definitions of a word, you're correct. If you understand some words can have more than one meaning, you're not
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:4, Insightful)
I know the image of the landlord is close to the little Monopoly guy, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Most landlords are Mom and Pops who are just scraping by.
Adding chargers to parking lots could easily cost millions what with tearing up and resurfacing the lot, buying the equipment, burying lines, probably adding capacity, and the charging systems themselves - which would also become a maintenance burden. Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
And I've said it before here, everyone lives in their own bubble, unable to see into/understand someone else's bubble. For example, MOST vehicles are not kept in garages. Cars are piled on top of each other in large cities, when parked on the streets. Are we going to have
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No car lasts forever, let alone ICE's, and as more and more of them land in the junkyards and EV's replace them, charging stations will start to become one of those amenities that places can advertise alongside things like a swimming pool or on-site laundry. Those may not be super common, but they aren't regarded as luxuries these days either.
Places without chargers will end up becoming so poorly-regarded that they end up not being able to keep enough units rented out, or at the very least, they end up onl
Re: (Score:2)
If you're too lazy to install proper wiring, but you have a sunny parking space, you could just order a solar charger. [beamforall.com] Supposedly the parking space can still be used, too.
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Re:I'd love an EV (Score:5, Insightful)
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If he owns four billion houses, and loses money on each one due to enforced requirements, it's not a question of feeling sorry or not. It's basic economics. He goes out of business, nobody gets a house, or someone else moves in and discovers it's also a money losing affair.
It's like complaints recently about supermarkets that went out of business in LA because the city forced them to pay $5 more in "hero pay". Those stores were probably on the edge of profitability, and it didn't matter if it was a conglom
Re:I'd love an EV (Score:4, Informative)
Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
As a property owner myself, why would a landlord attempt to meet minimum expectations? The answer is to make rent. If you're providing low income housing you may be very right, but me I'm counting down the days before my tenants ask me to install a charging station and I start making a calculated decision as to whether I comply or I'm forced to lower rent as potential tenants move elsewhere.
The world is changing. The question isn't why would a landlord install a charging point. The question is when. Depending on where you live, that could be within a couple of decades, or it could be 50 years from now.
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I am no longer a land but I agree it is a question of when. However I suspect we are no where near the lower rent point yet (at least not based on EV chargers being provided).
The question I'd ask is when will I no longer be able to find prospective tenants who don't care about EV chargers. Right now the market is such that you can probably charge a slight premium if you offer EV charging, but that will quickly evaporate. I suspect fairly shortly in most markets you will have a bifurcated group of renters -
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Adding chargers to parking lots could easily cost millions what with tearing up and resurfacing the lot, buying the equipment, burying lines, probably adding capacity, and the charging systems themselves - which would also become a maintenance burden. Why would a landlord do that when it would likely bankrupt him??
OK, let's look at it. Suppose that you have an underground garage in your apartment building. If you do installation for at least 20 parking stalls then the per-stall cost will be around $400. EVSE is not yet as cheap as it can get ($300 for cheapest units) but it should go down to $150 or so, there's simply nothing expensive inside. Other than that, you need metal cable conduits, wires and electrician to connect it. It's all pretty straightforward.
Now, let's say you charge your tenants 3 cents above the