And this here is the fundamental issue in this entire conversation. This is barely about RMS to some, and more about screwing over a section of the population that is disliked.
RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission. Full stop. This has been demonstrated by the very fact that these conversations are happening, as loudly and as presently as they are. And the choice to keep him in place is either horribly shortsighted, or an in
how many of the people complaining about RMS have been donating to the FSF?
I used to run a company called Roaring Penguin Software Inc. and we were patrons of the FSF in 2013, 2017 and 2018 (you can check the fsf.org pages.) I won't donate any more.
I contribute to, and am the primary author/maintainer of, several free software projects, including some that are widely used. How about you, big talker?
So, I've never met RMS in person. However, I find his responses to controversy very tone-deaf and don't believe he's a good person to lead an advocacy organization, given that such a leader needs to have very good people skills. I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
RMS has set his name into the establishment of free software, as it is known today. You can't deprive him of his contribution. He may not be the best contemporary leader as a representational face, yet honorable member of the board at this sort of institution he rather deserves to be. Even if causing dispute. He does not ow somebody his style, his stance, his beliefs, his vision.
I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
This seems to be the most serious thing I have found. There's one case where he was making insensitive comments to women about "Emacs Virgins" which he later admitted were not being understood the way he meant them and toned down. He also handed out business cards talking about "pleasure", which women found creepy. In that case it turned out he was handing them out also to men and also with no apparent link to sex or anything.
If he is "on the spectrum", then these things are understandable. If he is trying to learn and change then these things are forgivable. Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
Yet here you are, judging him based on what other people heard other people heard him say (not a typo).
However, I find his responses to controversy very tone-deaf
He was asked about something that has nothing to do with Free Software - what difference does it make what his position is on the 2020 election, Covid mask recommendations, or who was or was not on Epstein's island and what they might or might not have done?
and don't believe he's a good person to lead an advocacy organization, given that such a leader needs to have very good people skills.
RMS NEVER had "good people skills" - EVER.
I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
I'll go one better - I bet he's equally "creepy" to both men and women. RMS operates on the fringe of society, has a flawed set of coping skills for public situations, and lives by a rigorous set of personal rule that can, from time to time, cause him problems - for example, as I recall he got into this mess because he invited a group to ask him about "anything" he'd be happy to answer their questions. No one does that, but he does, and look where it got him.
If he just came out and said he was "on the (autism) spectrum" half his critics would likely back off, but being "on the spectrum" wasn't the cool thing when he was growing up.
What about that is his problem? You're describing the feelings of others about him as if they were objective assessments of his character, and not the subjective emotional responses of people who may not be particularly stable/healthy/sane/etc.
I don't deny RMS's huge past contributions to Software Freedom. He should always be recognized and celebrated for that, and nothing can take away from those accomplishments. The question at hand is whether currently he is a net benefit to the FSF, and I don't think so.
I did post a link containing direct quote from someone who said she wanted to work in Free Software, but didn't, directly as a result of RMS's behavior to her. Let me try to find it again... ah, right here [blogspot.com].
Given that the goal of the FSF is to encourage people to use Free Software, it seems to me that RMS's behaviour undermined that goal, in at least one instance.
Since some people will accuse other's pets of being racist, I don't being autistic gives one an excuse suitable for everyone. Remember the milk shake duck meme.
He was asked about something that has nothing to do with Free Software - what difference does it make
Nothing... If you're in a technical / employee position where all you're judged on is your expertise. Everything however if you're like RMS, in a position that is heavily dependent on leadership and PR.
I regularly at work share the opinion that many of our customers can go get fucked. If I were the CEO or in the PR department, I would rightfully expect to lose my job over similar opinions. This is the distinction that you seem to be unable to recognise. When you work in certain positions you don't get to have public opinions. If you want to continue having those opinions then you should expect to lose your position if they aren't in the public interest.
Autism or not, at some point you have to learn to shut the fuck up. Even his apology sounds very much like a non-apology and could have seriously benefitted from having someone with actual PR skills proof read it. Truly smart leaders surround themselves with people who can help them effectively lead. RMS is not one of those people.
I recall statements of FSF board discussing this, and ending the way they did. Still, in my opinion, if board can function at all in the presence of RMS, he has his own to be present on the board.
I'm not sure (a) where you're getting a religious reference from or (b) why you think I believe sexism in religion is OK. I think it's perfectly fine to mock religion and I do so myself on many an occasion, because religions tend to be full of shitty things.
The goal of the FSF, as I understand it, it to advocate for Software Freedom. If RMS is turning people away from Free Software and the Free Software community, for whatever reason, then he is not beneficial to the goal of the FSF.
i hate this comment, because i think more CEO's should tell people to fuck themselves. this "leaders should be PC" is a problem that has crept into tech space for the last decade or two, and it's absolutely infuckingsufferable
If he is "on the spectrum", then these things are understandable.
He's clearly trying to paint himself that way.
If he is trying to learn and change then these things are forgivable.
Only now, after *decades*? Surely someone before 2021 had to have said something to him about oh I dunno BATHING and NOT CHEWING STUFF OFF YOUR FEET or BEING STONED OUT OF HIS SKULL on camera ?
Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
I couldn't disagree more. It's nice to have at least someone with empathy, even if it is largely manufactured. As a CEO you're more than welcome to tell people to fuck themselves, and the people are more than welcome to pool together and boycott, and the board is more than welcome to tell said CEO that curb stomping the corporate reputation is not inline with their goal of making money.
PR is not about what you should do, it's about reaching a goal you intend. The FSF could support RMS, but I do wonder if al
Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
Depends how you define it, doesn't it?
I define harm in a number of ways.
a) what people say themselves - in this case, as I said they each systematically deny that he "harmed" people b) actual harm, as opposed to verbal misnaming - as in "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
There are limits to b) but in order to cross those limits people have to claim to be harmed. There's one case I know of, I already addressed, where a woman was directed away from an IT career. To be honest, having worked for years, with a very t
The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Good for him. Let the snowflakes go fuck themselves.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And this here is the fundamental issue in this entire conversation. This is barely about RMS to some, and more about screwing over a section of the population that is disliked.
RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission. Full stop. This has been demonstrated by the very fact that these conversations are happening, as loudly and as presently as they are. And the choice to keep him in place is either horribly shortsighted, or an in
How have the people complaining supported the FSF? (Score:5, Insightful)
RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission
That's' what you claim, yet how many of the people complaining about RMS have been donating to the FSF? I'd warrant the percentage is extremely low.
I've been donating to the FSF for over a decade now, and if RMS is gone so is my money.
In what way exactly do you see the FSF mission being impacted by those complaining? I can't see it altering anything at all.
I know he cannot effectively lead
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how many of the people complaining about RMS have been donating to the FSF?
I used to run a company called Roaring Penguin Software Inc. and we were patrons of the FSF in 2013, 2017 and 2018 (you can check the fsf.org pages.) I won't donate any more.
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I contribute to, and am the primary author/maintainer of, several free software projects, including some that are widely used. How about you, big talker?
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What in particular made RMS to become stopper for you?
Re:How have the people complaining supported the F (Score:2)
So, I've never met RMS in person. However, I find his responses to controversy very tone-deaf and don't believe he's a good person to lead an advocacy organization, given that such a leader needs to have very good people skills. I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
Re: (Score:2)
RMS has set his name into the establishment of free software, as it is known today. You can't deprive him of his contribution. He may not be the best contemporary leader as a representational face, yet honorable member of the board at this sort of institution he rather deserves to be. Even if causing dispute. He does not ow somebody his style, his stance, his beliefs, his vision.
Re:How have the people complaining supported the F (Score:5, Informative)
I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
This seems to be the most serious thing I have found. There's one case where he was making insensitive comments to women about "Emacs Virgins" which he later admitted were not being understood the way he meant them and toned down. He also handed out business cards talking about "pleasure", which women found creepy. In that case it turned out he was handing them out also to men and also with no apparent link to sex or anything.
If he is "on the spectrum", then these things are understandable. If he is trying to learn and change then these things are forgivable. Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
Do you have any better sources than that?
Re: How have the people complaining supported the (Score:5, Interesting)
So, I've never met RMS in person.
Yet here you are, judging him based on what other people heard other people heard him say (not a typo).
However, I find his responses to controversy very tone-deaf
He was asked about something that has nothing to do with Free Software - what difference does it make what his position is on the 2020 election, Covid mask recommendations, or who was or was not on Epstein's island and what they might or might not have done?
and don't believe he's a good person to lead an advocacy organization, given that such a leader needs to have very good people skills.
RMS NEVER had "good people skills" - EVER.
I also believe that there's substance behind the allegations that he's creepy towards women.
I'll go one better - I bet he's equally "creepy" to both men and women. RMS operates on the fringe of society, has a flawed set of coping skills for public situations, and lives by a rigorous set of personal rule that can, from time to time, cause him problems - for example, as I recall he got into this mess because he invited a group to ask him about "anything" he'd be happy to answer their questions. No one does that, but he does, and look where it got him.
If he just came out and said he was "on the (autism) spectrum" half his critics would likely back off, but being "on the spectrum" wasn't the cool thing when he was growing up.
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I don't deny RMS's huge past contributions to Software Freedom. He should always be recognized and celebrated for that, and nothing can take away from those accomplishments. The question at hand is whether currently he is a net benefit to the FSF, and I don't think so.
Re: (Score:1)
I did post a link containing direct quote from someone who said she wanted to work in Free Software, but didn't, directly as a result of RMS's behavior to her. Let me try to find it again... ah, right here [blogspot.com].
Given that the goal of the FSF is to encourage people to use Free Software, it seems to me that RMS's behaviour undermined that goal, in at least one instance.
Re: (Score:2)
Since some people will accuse other's pets of being racist, I don't being autistic gives one an excuse suitable for everyone. Remember the milk shake duck meme.
Re: How have the people complaining supported the (Score:5, Insightful)
He was asked about something that has nothing to do with Free Software - what difference does it make
Nothing... If you're in a technical / employee position where all you're judged on is your expertise.
Everything however if you're like RMS, in a position that is heavily dependent on leadership and PR.
I regularly at work share the opinion that many of our customers can go get fucked. If I were the CEO or in the PR department, I would rightfully expect to lose my job over similar opinions. This is the distinction that you seem to be unable to recognise. When you work in certain positions you don't get to have public opinions. If you want to continue having those opinions then you should expect to lose your position if they aren't in the public interest.
Autism or not, at some point you have to learn to shut the fuck up. Even his apology sounds very much like a non-apology and could have seriously benefitted from having someone with actual PR skills proof read it. Truly smart leaders surround themselves with people who can help them effectively lead. RMS is not one of those people.
Re: (Score:2)
I recall statements of FSF board discussing this, and ending the way they did.
Still, in my opinion, if board can function at all in the presence of RMS, he has his own to be present on the board.
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I'm not sure (a) where you're getting a religious reference from or (b) why you think I believe sexism in religion is OK. I think it's perfectly fine to mock religion and I do so myself on many an occasion, because religions tend to be full of shitty things.
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The goal of the FSF, as I understand it, it to advocate for Software Freedom. If RMS is turning people away from Free Software and the Free Software community, for whatever reason, then he is not beneficial to the goal of the FSF.
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i hate this comment, because i think more CEO's should tell people to fuck themselves. this "leaders should be PC" is a problem that has crept into tech space for the last decade or two, and it's absolutely infuckingsufferable
Re: (Score:1)
If he is "on the spectrum", then these things are understandable.
He's clearly trying to paint himself that way.
If he is trying to learn and change then these things are forgivable.
Only now, after *decades*? Surely someone before 2021 had to have said something to him about oh I dunno BATHING and NOT CHEWING STUFF OFF YOUR FEET or BEING STONED OUT OF HIS SKULL on camera ?
Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
Depends how you define it, doesn't it?
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I couldn't disagree more. It's nice to have at least someone with empathy, even if it is largely manufactured. As a CEO you're more than welcome to tell people to fuck themselves, and the people are more than welcome to pool together and boycott, and the board is more than welcome to tell said CEO that curb stomping the corporate reputation is not inline with their goal of making money.
PR is not about what you should do, it's about reaching a goal you intend. The FSF could support RMS, but I do wonder if al
Re: (Score:2)
Every direct source I have read has said that he never did any harm to anyone.
Depends how you define it, doesn't it?
I define harm in a number of ways.
a) what people say themselves - in this case, as I said they each systematically deny that he "harmed" people
b) actual harm, as opposed to verbal misnaming - as in "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
There are limits to b) but in order to cross those limits people have to claim to be harmed. There's one case I know of, I already addressed, where a woman was directed away from an IT career. To be honest, having worked for years, with a very t
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business cards talking about "pleasure"
Which is an obvious joke, and anyone who doesn't understand that should probably introspect their own assumptions and biases.