I like Slashdot a lot. I come here every day. Despite the common flames (and downright freaky displays of human frailty around -1), I think the group consensus here is fantastic. It's often very funny, and I like knowing what all the really smart mf'ers think about certain issues and topics. I feel smarter for reading Slashdot.
Having said that, my lack of subscription is for a very simple reason: it's not professional.
I won't subscribe until I never see a dupe or typo. Really, for all of our vaunted technology, if Slashdot cannot surmount these two very simple obstacles, it doesn't deserve any real monetary support. It just doesn't. And again, I say this as a real fan.
Fix that, Taco, and you've got my money. And maybe even a little more credibility.
If you want "Professional", read CNN. Slashdot is the trenches. Its down and
dirty. It has typos and dupe stories and flamewars. We do our best to avoid
mistakes, but we're mistake prone humans, trying to get news out in real time.
So, sometimes things will go wrong.
If I had any mod points, I'd be tempted to mod you as a troll.
I don't think most of slashdot sees typos and dupes as part of the fun, judging by the comments about it whenever it crops up. Sure, it serves as a basis for discussion, but then so would posting an extra funny article a day.
IMHO, the linkup and article from Slashdot should be pretty much error-free; the trench part of slashdot always happens in the comments anyway. And it's lovely to be able to read unique stories without trawling through hundreds of comments on incorrect spellings.
Sure, sometimes things will go wrong, but with a 10-20 minute lead time on most articles after they've been posted, it shouldn't happen quite so often. And I don't think it's anything to be defended.
My point is that some people take Slashdot far to seriously. We're not CNN. We're just some guys trying to post a fun mix of the serious, the important, and the entertaining. Lighten up!
My point is that some people take Slashdot far to seriously. We're not CNN. We're just some guys trying to post a fun mix of the serious, the important, and the entertaining. Lighten up!
(pssssst! Taco! You're asking people to pony up more money! Ixnay on the efensivenessday!)
Am I being defensive? Heh. Maybe. It's just that I've been running Slashdot for five and a half years now, and trying to keep it as an Informal news source. It was built on that very premise, and I think that this is core to its appeal. But there's always a group of people who think that this is a flaw. I just don't get it! I'm not trying to be defensive, I just feel like people who make these arguments want to fundamentally change the very nature of what Slashdot is!
Some people aspire to greatness, some have it thrust upon them, and some wander into it. I think you and your guys have had a mix of the three. A belated congratulations, by the way...
But, as Stan Lee has taught us, with great power comes great responsibility, which is to say:
D00d, take the $40 I just sent you and invest in a good spell-checker. (Open Source or Closed, your choice!)
Yes, that's a big part of the appeal. But, spell_check != formal_news. You need to do so much more to be a formal news site. You're so far away from being a formal news site that the tiny incremenatal change of spell checking really is a tiny drop in the ocean of change needed to become "formal". But it would make reading slashdot less irritating (and there's spell checking software that make this easy, unlike avoiding dups...)
I just feel like people who make these arguments want to fundamentally change the very nature of what Slashdot is!
You're saying that integrating a spell checking into the story posting process would fundamentally change the very nature of slashdot.
Now if you were to investigate all stories, use a formal writing style, write your own copy instead of primarily using the submission text, and dozens of other things... then you'd be talking about changing the nature of slashdot. Integrating a spell checking into the story posting, and even into comment posting and posting to the story submission just isn't going to change the fundamental nature of slashdot.
I just feel like people who make these arguments want to fundamentally change the very nature of what Slashdot is!
So... Duplicate stories and typos/grammar issues are "fundamental" and part of the "very nature" of slashdot?
Ah. Regarding grammar and typos, I thought you guys simply didn't care enough to read through a story three times before submitting it. I can see having one or two dupes a month, but several a month is just sloppy...
What do you guys do all day? I thought Slashdot had one or two editors that all they did all day long was story submissions. Either this is not true, or these guys aren't watching what other part-time editors are submitting, because they should have a pretty good idea of what has been posted before, especially in the recent past.
I can suggest two technical improvements which will fix spelling and dupes:
First, put in a simple spell checker for story submissions. Make it so that submit has to be hit twice if there are words that don't pass muster, wrong words can be highlighted in color in a preview above the submission editor. There are a few grammar checkers to make sure [its|it's] and things like [lose|loose] and [their|they're|there] are correctly used. This'll take care of 95% of spelling and grammar issues. Better yet, employ several proven grammar and spelling editors who get free subscriptions by spell and grammar checking stories before they show up on the front page. Give them some sort of direct line so improvements can be made in the 20 minute time span before publication.
The duplicate story is only a little harder:
No less than 3 editors have to sign off on any newly accepted story before it's displayed. If it's a dupe, chances are good that one of the three editors (the one that accepted and originally edited it and two others to add their stamp of approval to it) will have seen it before. There is no pattern matching engine in perl to match the memory of the human mind.
I understand your desire to keep the 'flavor' of slashdot the same, and to go fast and furious - jumping in where others might apply more caution. I applaud that about slashdot.
In short, you can argue all you want that the old truck on blocks and broken appliances all on the front lawn of slashdot are intended features. You'll just be very, very wrong. You aren't an artist, and you can't claim that a piece of art with feces smeared over it is still art.
-Adam
Grammar/style/spelling engines (in perl) can be found here diction [fsf.org] and over here- a list of them [rocketaware.com]. Most are relatively immature, but better than nothing - and adoption here could advertise the need for development in this area. You guys do want to push open source development, right? Don't enable it for comments or user submissions- too much load on the server. Just for the editor's submissions.
If there are too many story submissions to keep up with (ie, you do have two guys busy all the time rejecting stories) then you need to prune the stories before they get in the bin. Do auto-dupe checking on stories within the bin - when one is viewed by an editor, show the others so they can pick the best one, or just throw out dupes. I'm sure you do this to a degree already. Employ a simple spell checker and stop accepting submissions with more than 5 mispellings, never mind grammar. Make submitters work a little harder and the input will improve (garbage in, garbage out).
There is only 1 person guaranteed to be online from 8am until midnight on Slashdot. The so called "Daddy Pants" for that shift. So a 3-way signoff isn't possible. Usually there is 2-3 people available, but we can't require more than 1. You still want content, right?
As for the rest, well we can always just disagree;)
You can't have everything... where would you put it?
-- Steven Wright
Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Having said that, my lack of subscription is for a very simple reason: it's not professional.
I won't subscribe until I never see a dupe or typo. Really, for all of our vaunted technology, if Slashdot cannot surmount these two very simple obstacles, it doesn't deserve any real monetary support. It just doesn't. And again, I say this as a real fan.
Fix that, Taco, and you've got my money. And maybe even a little more credibility.
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I think that this is half the fun ;)
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:2)
I don't think most of slashdot sees typos and dupes as part of the fun, judging by the comments about it whenever it crops up. Sure, it serves as a basis for discussion, but then so would posting an extra funny article a day.
IMHO, the linkup and article from Slashdot should be pretty much error-free; the trench part of slashdot always happens in the comments anyway. And it's lovely to be able to read unique stories without trawling through hundreds of comments on incorrect spellings.
Sure, sometimes things will go wrong, but with a 10-20 minute lead time on most articles after they've been posted, it shouldn't happen quite so often. And I don't think it's anything to be defended.
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:3, Interesting)
(pssssst! Taco! You're asking people to pony up more money! Ixnay on the efensivenessday!)
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:2)
But, as Stan Lee has taught us, with great power comes great responsibility, which is to say:
D00d, take the $40 I just sent you and invest in a good spell-checker. (Open Source or Closed, your choice!)
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, that's a big part of the appeal. But, spell_check != formal_news. You need to do so much more to be a formal news site. You're so far away from being a formal news site that the tiny incremenatal change of spell checking really is a tiny drop in the ocean of change needed to become "formal". But it would make reading slashdot less irritating (and there's spell checking software that make this easy, unlike avoiding dups...)
I just feel like people who make these arguments want to fundamentally change the very nature of what Slashdot is!
You're saying that integrating a spell checking into the story posting process would fundamentally change the very nature of slashdot.
Now if you were to investigate all stories, use a formal writing style, write your own copy instead of primarily using the submission text, and dozens of other things... then you'd be talking about changing the nature of slashdot. Integrating a spell checking into the story posting, and even into comment posting and posting to the story submission just isn't going to change the fundamental nature of slashdot.
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:2)
So... Duplicate stories and typos/grammar issues are "fundamental" and part of the "very nature" of slashdot?
Ah. Regarding grammar and typos, I thought you guys simply didn't care enough to read through a story three times before submitting it. I can see having one or two dupes a month, but several a month is just sloppy...
What do you guys do all day? I thought Slashdot had one or two editors that all they did all day long was story submissions. Either this is not true, or these guys aren't watching what other part-time editors are submitting, because they should have a pretty good idea of what has been posted before, especially in the recent past.
I can suggest two technical improvements which will fix spelling and dupes:
First, put in a simple spell checker for story submissions. Make it so that submit has to be hit twice if there are words that don't pass muster, wrong words can be highlighted in color in a preview above the submission editor. There are a few grammar checkers to make sure [its|it's] and things like [lose|loose] and [their|they're|there] are correctly used. This'll take care of 95% of spelling and grammar issues. Better yet, employ several proven grammar and spelling editors who get free subscriptions by spell and grammar checking stories before they show up on the front page. Give them some sort of direct line so improvements can be made in the 20 minute time span before publication.
The duplicate story is only a little harder:
No less than 3 editors have to sign off on any newly accepted story before it's displayed. If it's a dupe, chances are good that one of the three editors (the one that accepted and originally edited it and two others to add their stamp of approval to it) will have seen it before. There is no pattern matching engine in perl to match the memory of the human mind.
I understand your desire to keep the 'flavor' of slashdot the same, and to go fast and furious - jumping in where others might apply more caution. I applaud that about slashdot.
In short, you can argue all you want that the old truck on blocks and broken appliances all on the front lawn of slashdot are intended features. You'll just be very, very wrong. You aren't an artist, and you can't claim that a piece of art with feces smeared over it is still art.
-Adam
Grammar/style/spelling engines (in perl) can be found here diction [fsf.org] and over here- a list of them [rocketaware.com]. Most are relatively immature, but better than nothing - and adoption here could advertise the need for development in this area. You guys do want to push open source development, right? Don't enable it for comments or user submissions- too much load on the server. Just for the editor's submissions.
If there are too many story submissions to keep up with (ie, you do have two guys busy all the time rejecting stories) then you need to prune the stories before they get in the bin. Do auto-dupe checking on stories within the bin - when one is viewed by an editor, show the others so they can pick the best one, or just throw out dupes. I'm sure you do this to a degree already. Employ a simple spell checker and stop accepting submissions with more than 5 mispellings, never mind grammar. Make submitters work a little harder and the input will improve (garbage in, garbage out).
Re:Reasons for not subscribing. (Score:1, Troll)
As for the rest, well we can always just disagree ;)