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Mike Shaver Moves to Zero-Knowledge 90

Mike Shaver, who recently left the Netscape/AOL conglomerate, has apparently landed a job with Montreal-based Zero Knowledge. The press release has more details, but it appears that Zero Knowledge is privacy company which promises the ability to post, browse and all those good things anonyomously. Mike will be their Chief Software Officer, while continuing to work on Mozilla as time permits.
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Mike Shaver Moves to Zero-Knowledge

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  • Cool. I bet that will be a great job. I wish I could move to California and joing up with their company. Wouldn't that be cool to work for Mike Shaver???

    kwsNI
  • zero knowledge is a great crypto scheme (imho). I don't see how it quite pertains to this, though :P


    ls: .sig: File not found.
  • So he's the bill games of the company?

  • Boy am I an idiot...

    That should have read:

    So he's the Bill Gates of the company?



    (Insert canned laughter here)
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Mike will be their Chief Software Office

    He must be a pretty big guy!! *rimshot*

  • by / ( 33804 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @11:52AM (#1360809)
    can be found here [internetwk.com]. The interesting part is this:

    The Zero-Knowledge software works using three servers, located at leased sites in scattered locations worldwide. Client software encrypts Internet access requests and information using three layers of public-key encryption software. Each of the three servers only knows part of the information needed to identify a user and the contents of an Internet session. Even Zero-Knowledge itself doesn't know the identity of the owner of particular pseudonyms, so it can't divulge that information if subpoenaed.

    Of course implementation is everything, but I'm all in favor of any step towards ubiquitous encryption and pervasive privacy.
  • by kwsNI ( 133721 )
    Oops. Sorry - It's join not joing. I guess I should get out Hooked on Phonics. :)

    kwsNI
  • by Paolo ( 87425 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @12:03PM (#1360812) Homepage
    Right below you have Mozilla getting PKI source, and then you have an ex-Mozilla going to Zero Knowledge. Why is this significant? ZK is the maker of the aptly named "Freedom" (from privacy invasion) software, which acts as a very interesting model of secure internet access. White papers are here [freedom.net], and they've truly redefined (or is it defined) a new model for providing inet access privacy. I wonder if Mike Shaver's old ties at Netscape/AOL would help in the distribution of Freedom...
  • Hope that the OS requirements get shaken up a little: System Requirements

    Operating System:

    Windows 95, Windows 98

    Internet Connection (Modem or LAN-based) using standard Microsoft TCP/IP

    Obtained from freedom.net [freedom.net] webpage.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    ZKS is a cool setup, and they seem to be doing their cryptography right. Their site has papers detailing all their security weaknesses, and they invite evaluation by cryptographers. Unfortunately it depends on client software that is currently available only on Win95/98. Personally I've emailed them asking that they at least make it available soon on NT--nothing like putting high-security crypto stuff on the world's least secure OS!

    But if you are on Win9x, Freedom is great--fully anonymous surfing, email, telnet, whatever. With the paid version ($50) you can set up five "nyms," which each store their own set of cookies. You can use different nyms for different purposes, accept all the cookies and don't worry about it, no one will have any idea who you are. There is even an option to pay by anonymous money order.

  • by redled ( 10595 )
    This is a good idea in general, and if it's implemented in a secure way it should probably work well. However, I have a couple of concerns: while privacy is good for the average person, is more protection really what we want to give to say, child pornographers? And, in such a case where a child pornographer was using the software to protect his identity, would Zero-Knowledge be required by law to help divulge information to track down his real identity?

    Also:

    "empowers Internet users to surf the Web, send email, post to newsgroups and IRC chat in total privacy."

    Right now spam, and to a lesser extent, e-mail hoaxes and threats are an ongoing problem. I can see this software as a possible tool for spammers and hoaxers. Once again, does a person have legal recourse in a situation where an anoymous person has spammed them?

    --

  • Warining: this post may contain sarcasm Anonymous users on the internet? I can't believe the U.S. government would allow such a thing. Congress should get their ass in gear and stop this immediately. Absolute freedom such as this is a terrible idea. As Dubya said, "there ought to be limits to freedom."
  • Hmm, kinda sounds like the idea of laundry.org in Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon to me. cheers. k
  • This is great for those concerned about protecting their anonymity. The Zero-Knowledge model is just about the best out there, working similarly to chained remailers. Provided Zero-Knowledge has actually implemented what they claim--and done it well--this is perhaps the best way to secure your right to free speech.

    Hiring someone with expertise on a multi-platform application like Netscape was an excellent move. The only reason I don't use this is because the Zero-Knowledge client currently runs only on Win9x, with versions for other OSes to be released "real soon now". Hopefully, this should significantly jump-start those efforts, bringing anonymity to people who refuse to run an insecure OS.
  • Mike Shaver is the Chief Software Officer for Zero Knowledge Inc.

    :


    Munky_v2
  • Read the press release. They're hiring 75 new people out in California - Silicon Valley.

    kwsNI
  • Is it really necessary for us to be your information slaves? A quick search of Slashdot (not to mention, reading the post and/or the article it links to) turns up more information than necessary to answer your question. See the following URL:

    http://slashdot.org/search.pl?quer y=Mike+Shavers [slashdot.org]
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Hiding Web trails

    An Internet privacy product creates a public stir

    BY VINCE BEISER

    Austin Hill wants to make Web surfers invisible. With the Internet increasingly becoming a place where people's movements and personal information are tracked, logged, bought and sold, Hill's Montreal-based company, Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc., is set to launch a product that will conceal all cyber-wanderings. "Right now, the Net is like a street with a camera on every corner. Everything you do leaves a trace," says Hill, Zero-Knowledge's 26-year-old president. Law enforcement agencies, employers and hackers can easily monitor e-mail and online chat; corporate Web sites gather information on visitors, then resell it to marketing companies. Zero-Knowledge's Freedom software will prevent that by encrypting every communication a user sends.

    Scheduled for commercial release late this year, Freedom is already generating a buzz among Silicon Valley venture capitalist and privacy advocates. But it is also unsettling law enforcement officials, who warn that the privacy software will make life easier for virus makers, pedophiles and other online miscreants. FBI chief Louis Freeh recently told the U.S. Senate that the widespread availability of strong encryption products will "devastate our capabilities for fighting crime, preventing acts of terrorism and protecting the national security." Brent Pack, a so-called hacker hunter with the U.S. army's computer crime investigation unit, agrees. "Our job is hard enough," he says, "without adding any additional hurdles."

    There already are anonymous Web-surfing services and e-mail encryption programs on the market. Freedom, however, is the first to bundle these functions in a single user-friendly application. Though it is still being tested, "the idea," says Bruce Schneier, one of the industry's leading cryptography experts, "is fundamentally sound."

    It works by stripping all data leaving a user's computer of identifying information -- be it e-mail, chat-room gossip or requests for Web pages -- then wrapping it in several layers of 128-bit encryption, currently considered unbreakable. The data is then routed through a series of randomly chosen servers, each of which unwraps one of the encryption envelopes to find where to send the packet next. That means no single server knows both the origin and destination of the packet. (Even Zero-Knowledge won't know which data packets connect to which users, hence, the company name.)

    Freedom allows users to create up to five pseudonymous identities, none of which can be traced. This sits nicely with privacy advocates. "The police would have a much easier time if they could enter your house or read your mail any time they wanted," says David Jones, president of Electronic Frontier Canada, a cyber-rights group. "Why should e-mail be any less deserving of protection than a letter sent by Canada Post?"

    Hill, too, is a longtime believer in individual freedom -- especially his own. He quit high school at 15 to start a career as a computer security consultant. At 21, with the help of his older brother Hamnett, he co-founded what is now TotalNet Inc., one of Canada's largest Internet service providers. After selling that venture for a hefty profit, the brothers founded Zero-Knowledge in 1997, along with their father, Hammie, a corporate accountant.

    Overseeing Freedom's development is star hacker and Toronto native Ian Goldberg, 26. In recent years, he has made headlines by cracking the digital security system used by Netscape's Navigator and another used by many wireless phones, including Canada's Fido Network.

    While the demand for Web privacy is widespread and while the technology may be solid, the question remains: will people pay $75 to buy Freedom? Austin Hill is confident they will. The number of employees at Zero-Knowledge's loft-like headquarters on Montreal's now-hip Boulevard St. Laurent is projected to zoom from 50 to 110 in the next few months, and at least 50,000 volunteers have signed up to test Freedom's new release. "We don't expect overnight success," says Hill, "but we expect it quick."

  • The press release has more details, but it appears that Zero Knowledge is privacy company which promises the ability to post, browse and all those good things anonyomously.

    APPARENTLY? There have been tons of stories about these guys ever since they began offering the beta and it should be no suprize at all to anybody that follows security just a little bit.

    Check their own site for stories [zeroknowledge.com] that go back for months, including ZDNET, the Wall Street Journal, CNNin, C|Net, Newsweek, InternetNews, The Village Voice, Wired, Time.com and the list goes on for 2 very long pages.

    Yea, the new suit part might be news, but the what it "apparently" does part is old now.

  • by ardran ( 90992 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @12:38PM (#1360833)
    Some of you may consider this flamebait, but I'm serious.

    Things like ZKS make me wonder about what we are striving for in terms of privacy. There is the "real" world and the digital world -- is one meant to be an analogue of the other? Obviously, we want privacy because we don't want the digital world to be worse than the real world in certain ways. For instance, if we didn't encrypt credit card data during transactions, the digital world would be broken compared to the real when it comes to purchasing. Similarly, I want to be able to secure documents that I send to someone so that they are at least as good as taking certain "security" measures in the real world (registered mail, envelopes that aren't transparent, etc).

    There seems to be a distinction between the desire for online security (which seeks to emulate the security we can find in the real world) and the desire for online privacy (which seeks to surpass the real). There is no real-world equivalent to what ZKS proposes. If I walk down the street, people may not recognize me (unless they know me), but I clearly have an identity -- I can be distinguished from someone else on the street by a third-party observer, even though the observer may not be able to identify either of us. ZKS would allow me to walk down the street and appear identical to everyone else -- not just nameless, but faceless.

    Obviously, a lack of privacy dehumanizes; but couldn't an overabundance dehumanize as well? I'm interested in where exactly we're going with all this.

  • by Gerv ( 15179 ) <{gerv} {at} {gerv.net}> on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @12:50PM (#1360835) Homepage
    Funny that, to get your internet "freedom" using Freedom.net, you have to be using the products and OSes of the software company in the world most opposed to freedom :-)

    Gerv
  • From what I've heard, they implement a limit on e-mails per day per user which would not be noticed by an ordinary user but would pretty much prevent spam. I'm not certain how they'd deal with threats and hoaxes.

    I like the company, they've hired some very smart and very nice people, but I wish they'd be more forward-thinking regarding efficient payment options. :^) Seriously, we tried HARD for a while to use a credit card to buy a set of 'nyms -- without success -- for a LONG time. There are other payment options that they should consider, among them e-gold. (Go ahead, moderate me down, this is a blatantly self-interested comment but I needed to say it.)
    JMR

  • by Zico ( 14255 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @12:59PM (#1360838)

    Worst. Name. Ever.

    Seriously, what kind of marketing wizard decided to name the company "Zero Knowledge". It sounds like a synonym for "Know Nothing." "Yeah, I know there are a lot of smart companies out there that we could work with, but that's so cliché -- we should team up with them Zero Knowledge guys!"

    Cheers,
    ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

  • by cicatrix ( 58686 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @12:59PM (#1360840) Homepage
    In the first case (child porn), you have to either accept that either you're going to trample on people's rights, or someone's not going to be as "safe" as they otherwise could be. I realize this sounds rather callous, especially in regard to children, but it's the truth. This (along w/terrorism) is one of the most often used arguments against privacy, especially on the internet. Of course, as soon as you start somewhere, you hit that lovely slippery slope fallacy--where does it stop? While a fallacy in a logical sense, people aren't always logical--far from it--so it applies, at least to some degree... Basically, it comes down to the question of how far are you willing to let the government (or anyone w/the resources to do so) pry into your affairs? Then ask yourself this: even if you say that things should stop there, why should your opinion of where to stop be any more of a limit than someone who draws the line at watching for people with "unhealthy" but perfectly legal habits?

    On the flip side of this, Freedom can make it safer for children by keeping any personal information away from prying eyes, specifially those of child molesters, etc. So now which is more important, protecting children from child molesters, or to make it easier to track child molesters? It'd also make it easier for the police to do stings in chat rooms, etc., because they can create a relatively untraceable pseudonym...

    On the happier and less controversial note of spammers, Freedom does reserve the right to pull 'nyms that are associated w/spam, etc.--a lot of spammers seem to be using either free email services until they get caught, or their own servers, so it'd get pretty expensive to pay $10/each for new names...

  • Random relevant quotes:

    Liberty exists in proportion to wholesome restraint.
    -Daniel Webster, Speech at the Charleston Bar Dinner, May 10, 1847.

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania

  • I think it's a pretty clever name for a company that claims not to know anything about you. Oh and by the way: ever heared of a Zero Knowledge proof?
    I think they took it from that.
  • According to this article [cnet.com] at news.com, this is the start of them open-sourcing their software.

    Which makes sense - make it open so people can check the security. Other people can do the work of porting it to numourous wierd and wonderful platforms. They still make revenue because they're providing a service (including to users of unoffical, say, Linux ports). Everyone wins.

    Hurrah for open source! Etc!

    ...j
  • by Bearpaw ( 13080 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @01:05PM (#1360848)
    Right now spam, and to a lesser extent, e-mail hoaxes and threats are an ongoing problem. I can see this software as a possible tool for spammers and hoaxers.

    From their FAQ [freedom.net]:

    How does Zero-Knowledge limit spam abuse of Freedom?

    Zero-Knowledge is very much aware of the possibility that our technology may be used by spammers to distribute unsolicited commercial email. To discourage this, Freedom attempts to limit the potential for spam through a number of measures:

    * Limits on the total number of recipients/newsgroups to which email may be sent on any day
    * Reduced limits on the total number of recipients/newsgroups to which email may be sent on any day for trial nyms
    * Limits on cross-posting to newsgroups
    * Limited lifespans for trial nyms, discouraging their use for spamming purposes
    * Internet users can block email from any particular nym

    Moreover, Zero-Knowledge has a 'no-spam' policy which it will try to enforce, and reserves the right to delete any nyms or restrict users ability to send email for spamming on the Freedom Network. That said, given Freedom's design goals of complete privacy, if an individual hides behind a nym to send spam via Freedom, Zero-Knowledge will be unable to determine the identity of the nym's owner or to associate a particular nym with any others owned by the same individual.

  • Ha! Good thing they're Canadian!

    (Also kind of nice to see the brain drain going the other way)

  • (I don't think it's flamebait :)

    I think that a lot of what people here aren't noticing yet (mostly 'cause it involves a lot of reading the Zero Knowledge/Freedom docs, etc.), is that Freedom isn't for anonymous internet, it's for pseudonymous use--if you're not careful (e.g. by switching to another pseudonym while on a site which actively places/updates cookies), you can have your pseudonyms connected together--or to your real name, if you shut off Freedom while surfing...

    You can check out their page [freedom.net] for lots of details on what they have going on.... It can take a little digging, but there's lots of info there...

  • Q: Ever heard of a Zero Knowledge proof?

    A: Yes.

    Q: Has anyone who might even think of investing in this company ever heard of a Zero Knowledge proof?

    A: Ummm...

    Yes, it's a clever name, but that doesn't mean it's a wise choice. If the producers of "Frasier" decided to have an entire episode where the characters spoke in Ebonics "in commemoration of" Martin Luther King day*, I'd think it was clever as Hell. It would also be instant suicide.

    Cheers,
    ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

    * Replace Ebonics/MLK day with Spanglish/Cinco de Mayo, Sign-Language/Nat'l Sign Language Day, etc. I was illustrating a point, not trying to start a race war. I shouldn't have to explain this, but in these politically correct times...

  • There's this interesting crypto method that lets you prove you know something without showing the method of proof, e.g. proof of identity without worrying about forgery. I found one explanation [cmu.edu] of it online, and Bruce Schneier writes a more detailed explanation in Applied Cryptography.

    So, it's a double entendre: crypto in-joke, and also how much info you spread, accidentally, while using Freedom.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    It sounds like a good name to me - they have Zero Knowledge about the people using their nyms. Which means if they get subpoenaed, they don't have anything to give the courts.

    ZKS's poobah Austin explained the whole thing at Defcon last summer (they didn't have an official talk, but Austin was explaining Freedom at one of the last talks on internet privacy, and he explained in detail at the party they threw).

    They are very much on top of the issues of spam, kiddie porn, etc.

    And yes, they're aware of the demand for a Linux client, but as Austin explained it to me (AFAIK), the impetus for creating Freedom was allowing people to speak freely about the companies they work for without the fear of getting fired, and most of those people tend to use Windows.

    ZKS are pretty cool people. And they know how to throw a party.

  • >Freedom isn't for anonymous internet, it's for pseudonymous use

    Looks like I should have read the zks page a bit more carefully :)
    With that knowledge my original question would have been much different (if it had even existed). pseudonymous use rather than anonymous pretty much negates the effect I was implying. Thanks for the correction.

  • I actually came across ZKS several years ago when they first started publicizing the product. IIRC, this was how they addressed these concerns.

    Each user has a pseudonym. If that pseudonym causes problems, it can be revoked, forcing the spammer to sign up again to spam again. Not really that much different than what any other ISP does, except that it is harder to prevent them from signing back up again.

    Law enforcement issues: A packet can be traced by going to the first server in the chain and getting a subpeona for its logs, which will point to the next server in the chain, eventually pointing back to the sender. This would be problematic since the servers can be in different countries, but still theoretically possible. ZKS did not start up to make life easy for law enforcement, but to protect people from anyone, including law enforcement, who encroach on the their privacy.

    There certainly will be abuses of ZKS, but that holds true of any system. The issue is whether or not a person should be allowed to interact with society on an anoymous level. I say yes. Police caught and convicted criminals long before there were DNA tests. They will still be able to do so without a trail of bloody footprints leading to the spammers door. If we give people tools such as ZKS, they can defend themselves from being attacked by spammers in the first place, rather than retaliating after the fact.
  • I don't see how the US gov't has a choice...
    ...there is a reason that ZKS is based in CANADA! (we can export whatever crypto, and don't have domestic anti-strong-crypto legislation...
  • Before you waste the price, you need to be aware of one limitation. In the current version, you can not differentiate between different networks. For example, if you have a local network of 10.0.0.0/255.0.0.0, you can not access it while running freedom. You have to turn off freedom, which resets all your connections.

    The software is very nice, although the connections are a bit slow over your average modem (understandably). Unfortunately, for me that limitation meant I couldn't use it, and I was forced to return my product.

    On the bright side the company was very easy to deal with, and I suggest the product for anyone that doesn't have to deal with a lan as well as the internet.

    Oh yeah, and of course the first version only runs on windows. :)

  • by jlb ( 78725 )
    I think spam won't be as hard to deal with as you'd imagine. It should only be of minimal difficulty to track a post to a certain nym. That nym can be disabled.

    However, to connect a nym to a person is significantly more difficult, keeping hte privacy intact.

    Interestingly enough, when I had to cancel my account with them (due to a technical problem, see earlier post), I had to send them the files related to my nyms and my passphrase for those nyms.

    Although, as long as they accept anonymous money orders, they can just get new accounts.

    Hopefully a happy medium can be found.

  • I think the coolest thing about freedom is the transparently encrypted email. IIRC, this is how it works. You get email sent to your freedom nym. The freedom servers forward your mail to wherever you want, in encrypted format. When you download the mail with a pop client, freedom decrypts it before the data is passed to your pop client, so your client reads the mail in plain text.

    Pretty cool, but it *is* annoying that you're limited to a pop client. But, if you don't want to use pop, you can still use public email services, as they won't be able to see your actual ip address, because you're hidden behind the freedom servers.

  • I am posting this from a public terminal at the RSA2000 Conference [rsaconference.com], where Ian Goldberg [zero-knowledge.com] (Zero Knowledge's chief scientist) is scheduled to talk tomorrow.

    I've got his session scheduled... I plan to grab some of the "best" questions from this thread on Slashdot and corner Ian afterwards and see what he's got to say. I'll post the results of my quest here tomorrow after the session, if anyone is interested.

    ---------
    Question: How do I leverage the power of the internet?
  • There's an mp3 from a previous talk at the 1999 [ottawalinuxsymposium.org] Ottawa Linux Symposium here [ottawalinuxsymposium.org]. Very good information!
  • Freedom works in two ways as I understand it. First as an encrypting freedom-routing client at the IP layer of your TCP/IP stack and second as an HTTP proxy that plugs into your TCP/IP stack.

    This means that it should already work with Mozilla. Anybody tried it?

    Zooko

  • I was at the Bay Area Cypherpunks Physical Meeting and I overheard some ZKS officers suggesting that people should use e-gold to buy Freedom nyms. But it isn't on their web page yet, eh?

    Zooko

    P.S. Hi, Jim Ray!

  • Since they aren't making Fawlty Towers anymore perhaps a dubbing job could be in order here... Similar to the Tie-Tanic stuff...

    What if Frasier and Lilith back in the Cheers days had taken a trip to England and stayed in Fawlty Towers?
  • "The word liberty in the mouth of Mr. Webster sounds like the word love in the mouth of a courtezan."
    --Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1850, responding to Webster's defense of slavery and the cotton business

    "Oh God, my feet hurt!"
    --Franklin responding to his gout.
  • :) Thanks--hadn't heard the Emerson quote before... Off to dig a bit more on people I quote...
  • ...But it isn't on their web page yet, eh?

    Hi, Zooko, sadly it isn't yet, but since my customers and I all like these guys a lot I think it's bound to happen soon (FC00? -- hey, ya going this year?). It's strange, I regularly offer ZKS (and Slashdot) folks a chance to play around with a bit of e-gold, and nobody takes me up on it! This, despite the cool new Real Gold Lotto [realgoldlotto.com] that recently popped up. (I've got nothing to do with them, I know nothing, I see nothing...) Take advantage of me, everybody, create an account and I'll click you some gold!

    Anyway, I get the very strong feeling of another digital cash developing (and if it does, I'd hope for G&SR to make a market between it and e-gold and/or DigiGold). I want to see a thousand flowers bloom in this area, as I'm sure many folks do. Of course, I can't predict others' actions, so it's just a feeling, but it should be an interesting conference in Anguilla this time, and I can't wait!
    JMR

    P.S. Tell Joy to e-mail me! ;^)
  • I would definitely say there's something to them. I learned about the last two companies I've worked for at successive LinuxWorld Expos. (The first job was an internship, so it lasted only one Expo ;) .) I hadn't even heard of Vovida till I attended the August LWE. If you want just any job, tech advertising sites and recruiter are a way to go. If you are a fanatic like me, ;) and you won't work for a company that doesn't do Linux and/or open-source software, those conventions are really useful.

    Remember, we're still a fairly small part of the software industry at large. It's not always easy for Linux geeks and Linux companies to find each other.

    Good luck! Maybe I'll see your anonymous face at the next LWE in San Jose. :)

    Vovida, OS VoIP
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product

There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. -- John von Neumann

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