A New DeCSS 415
This guy has written a fairly amusing program called DeCSS and is asking people to distribute and link it in an effort to make things more difficult for the legal boys trying to track down the other DeCSS. The page has a lot to say, and this is definitely an interesting way to show support.
Re:Boy you people like living dangerously (Score:2)
Re:A suggestion... (Score:2)
MPAA is subverting the law (Score:2)
Watching a DVD that you've purchased under Linux is perfectly legal. Making a copy of a DVD for your personal use is perfectly legal. Yet, MPAA tries to stop you from exercising your rights to do these *legal* things. That's what this is all about: MPAA breaking the law, and us putting a stop to it.
New XFMail home page [slappy.org]
Re:Some rules don't deserve to be respected. (Score:2)
What you're saying is that you don't feel the stakes are high enough in this particular case to flout the law. That's your opinion and that's fine. But others feel differently.
I'm not claiming that the DVD situation is comparable to the holocaust. I am saying that those who go along with unjust laws, or worse, berate others for disobeying them, aren't the good citizens they believe they are.
The heart of the problem in this case is that corporations have successfully lobbied for laws that line their pockets at the expense of society as a whole. It's not just about watching DVDs, it's about screwing regular people and intimidating them (using the threat of law suits) into complying. That stinks and has no place in society.
Some rules don't deserve to be respected. (Score:4)
Before you start with the self-rightious diatribes you should remember that disobeying bad laws has a long and honourable tradition.
The American Revolution, the Underground Railroad, the French Resistance, Jews escaping the Nazis, Ghandi's peaceful revolution... the list goes on. All of these things were horribly illegal.
The fact of the matter is that laws are made by people. Some people are ignorant, greedy, corrupt, or cruel and when these people make laws they need to be opposed using whatever means are most effective.
In this particular case we have shortsighted politicians who have perverted intellectual property laws far beyond the point where they serve any social good. The laws are wrong and the politians in charge are either too stupid or too corrupt to do anything about it. How do fight within the system if the system itself is broken?
they are making some effort. (Score:2)
question.... (Score:2)
If I distribute a program, can't I call it whatever I like? As far as I know, the name "DeCSS" doesn't violate any copyrights or trademarks. Why couldn't I name a program that I write "DeCSS?" Why does it have to be plausible?
I bet the government loves people like you... (Score:5)
Face it danger is not a good thing and I would rather have my pride/honor/respect/and freedom than play DVDs on unsupported OSs.
Yeah, and I'd rather have my freedom than be allowed to drive a car wherever I like without being monitored.
I'd rather have my freedom than be able to view whatever I wish on the Internet.
I'd rather have my freedom than be able to decide for myself what my children should or should not be taught.
I could go on...
Maybe we should all just quit trying to change the things that we think are done for the wrong reasons or that are unjust, or that are just plain stupid. I'm sure it would make things a lot easier for the government if we would all just shut up and do as we're told. Maybe you should get out there and lead the wooly resistance against those who would dare to refuse to let the government or corporations take their rights away without a fight. Baaa! Baaa!
Re:More harm than good? (Score:2)
It hurts legitimate searches for the code
The damage to searches for the other DeCSS is minimal for the geek and huge for MPAA lawyers. This is because MPAA lawyers and an average geek have different objectives. The geek want's to find ONE copy of the other DeCSS. The lawyers want (and to be successful MUST) find every single copy of the other DeCSS.
Multiplying a trivial effort by 4 (for example) isn't so bad. Multiplying a nearly impossable effort by 4 is a real show stopper.
Re:Obfuscation (Score:2)
Now when I want to grab DeCSS to play DVDs on my Linux box, I have to search through ten times as much noise to find what I need.
It's much easier to find one copy out of ten linke than it is to find one copy out of nothing at all.
Re:Everyone should mirror it... (Score:2)
Chris
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Re:Everyone should mirror it... (Score:2)
Chris DiBona
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Everyone should mirror it... (Score:3)
By mirroring this and putting up somewhere visible, you will be helping out big time. I don't know if this is being said, but this will both cost time, money and lead to frustration for the MPAA/DVD CCA lawyers, which is a good thing :-)
Again, a copy is Here [dibona.com]. Mirror early! Mirror Often! Post your link here and muddy up their searches!
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
I've mirrored it, as have many others... (Score:4)
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
And furthermore... (Score:5)
Lets make thier jobs -hard-.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Re:Boy you people like living dangerously (Score:2)
Peacefull resistence is not against the law. Neather is using the phrase, DeCSS. It simply means that they won't be able to do a simple net search for the phrase DeCSS, and get a list of sites..
There is no danger. As a matter of fact, I'd love to see one case where someone here was sued. Sure, slashdot was brought to court, but they are 'the big boys'. If they went after 10,000 little guys, once again, class action lawsuit against them..
About time! (Score:2)
Seriously, this is a great way to draw attention to the DeCSS case, which is exactly what we DO need. The MPAA are getting away with murder because nobody but the techies care.
However, if "innocents" can get themselves dragged into the lawsuit, that'll be a different matter. The press is more likely to ask questions. Awkward questions. An "obviously guilty" person isn't going to get serious respect, even if they're just a young kid. But when bystanders start getting shot at by the MPAA lawyer, I think the media will start perking up.
not much to worry about (Score:2)
(1) Eliminating a specific class or instance of code or data is virtaully impossible because of the tendency of the internet (I speak of the net as including the human end-nodes) to route around censorship using the highly-respected "Whack-A-Mole" distribution model. And of course, overt limitations on the availability of information exponentially increases the interest in and demand for it.
(2) Any company making a business out of seeking and stamping out illicit data/code on the web must implicitly understand that if their actions are sucessful enough to become even a deterrent, then they will put themselves out of business. None would openly admit to this, but unless these are nonprofit or volunteer organizations their purpose is to make money. Thus their financial model requires enough success -- but not too much -- to provide a sustainable revinue stream.
J
Re:Thank goodness you never knew Rosa Parks! (Score:2)
Kinda like a lot of people on here. They know this is illegal, but post it anyway. You're hardly innocent.
Re: Beatniks, Capt. Kirk, and DeCSS (Score:4)
> a wav file ( because mp3 would be too "underground" ) of them reading the DeCSS
> ( as in the DVD program ) source code?
Hahahaha, I had this mental image of a beatnik reciting the DeCSS code as free verse in a smoke-filled, candle-lit coffeehouse as someone
plays bongos in the background. Hahahaha.
*LMFAO* Very nice, i actually like that.....as long as William Shatner doesn't mention anything about Priceline dot com at the end of the code
CmdrTaco Forgot one thing (Score:5)
( Warning, mildly offtopic thought follows)
I did have one theroy though...don't know if it was brought up before...what if someone posted a wav file ( because mp3 would be to "underground" ) of them reading the DeCSS ( as in the DVD program ) source code?
Sgt Pepper
Lame Sig Shamelessly Ripped from
Fortune:
A mind is a wonderful thing to waste.
Re:What the hell is this for? FAIR USE (Score:5)
My (poorly written) $.02
--Nick
Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:4)
It would really put a kink in their work.
Cute (Score:2)
Cute program. Not quite useless, has a legitimate reason for the name, totally legal, and a slap at the MPAA. But it doesn't help our case at all.
In fact, this could backfire on us.
"See!! Look!! These HACKERS are all alike!! They're trying to make it HARDER for us to seek out CRIMINALS trying to ROB US of your^H^H^H^Hour hard earned money made by selling DVD's of Porky's and Celine Dion!! KILL THEM ALL! Whoops. I mean, your honor, this demonstrates that these people don't have a leg to stand on. Please kindly sign this court order effectively stamping on the rights of Geeks even further? Thank you.
my new DEcompression/Compression Software System.. (Score:2)
I'll be finishing it up shortly!
Re:Hate to say this, but... (Score:2)
I think that would be a lovely program to write (make arbitrary size and checksum cruft).
Maybe I'll call it DeCSS.
_Deirdre
Even better (worse?) idea (Score:2)
Re:Hey, I have an idea (Score:2)
--
Cute, but no need (Score:2)
Cute idea (Score:3)
NAACP == "guilt"?! You're insane. (Score:2)
Point: Ms. Parks wasn't the innocent history claims she was. She was the Boss of the local chapter of the NAACP. She knew what she was doing.
Yeah. She was, in a harmless way, violating an unjust and immoral law, which happened also to be unconstitutional. Of course she knew what she was doing: She was standing up for her rights as a citizen.
In any case, if you think membership in the NAACP somehow precludes "innocence", you're out of your mind.
They know this is illegal, but post it anyway. You're hardly innocent.
I think you've just raised bootlicking to a new peak of perfection. Calling a program "DeCSS" is not illegal. In fact, I'm going to rename my cat "DeCSS". There, it's done. I'll be calling him that from here on in. No doubt you think that makes me a felon.
An idea... (Score:4)
If the answer comes back in a form that you disagree with, THEN disregard their decision and do what you wish...
It only seems that you're all making the lives much more difficult for everyone involved by acting like... dare a say the word?
"you can't catch me! neener neener!"
Write letters to your representatives. Write letters to the companies. Write letters to the judge. Put informational web pages as to why you think DeCSS is okay.
Look at Connectix as an example... Things are going good for them. Yes, they've barely sold their software yet, but they're setting a very important precedent. You too could set a precedent, but in the end it will all be remembered as acting in complete disregard of the "rules" that everyone is made to obey...
They're not written in stone, you know... It's just easier to justify everything when you wish they were.
And another thing (Score:5)
After all, the source is a matter of public record now, and it's been on T-shirts and all... Why not re-implment it in any and all programming languages out there. Java, Pascal, Fortran, Perl, VB, Befunge (ferchrisakes!)..
Differently named, all of them.
This new DeCSS is litigation chaff, and we should follow the blow with another, and another.
Let's add the string "DeCSS" to comment fields of web pages, to give the spiders and bots something to chew on. Let's integrate the DeCSS source code into web page background images.
mooooooooderators! Up! Up! The Above! (n/m) (Score:2)
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:2)
Remember, ESR himself maintains the INTERCAL compiler for linux! if that isn't promoting obfuscation, what is?
you have to understand the motives. open source's ideals as i understand them is to able to organise things in such a way that no one person is able to prevent anyone else from benefiting from the software just as much as the one person does.
with things such as the ioccc [ioccc.org], while only one person (the author) is really able to understand and modify the code, this does not matter. _everyone_ benefits equally for one simple reason:
obfuscated programming is not programming.
it is art.
DeCSS (original) in a highly obfuscated form (Score:5)
Is the entire css auth code in, well, story form. It's hilarious.
Re:Loosing the Iron Curtain (Score:2)
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:2)
perl -e '{tr/[a-zA-Z0-9][n-za-mN-ZA-M5-90-4]/g;print}' DeCSS.r13
Sorry, but the special characters have to stay the same
Eric
Not *totally* off base... (Score:2)
The American Revolution
We weren't actually fighting over anything nearly as noble as peace, freedom, intolerance, etc. As far as I know, we were fighting over money and property. The rights of taxation, representation, ownership, etc. And while we won, it wasn't legally, fairly, or nicely. And if we had any right to do it then, as indivduals trying to gain control over our own lives and world vs an empire that wanted none of that, it shouldn't be any different, I don't think, of consumers trying to fight the MPAA or the entertainment industry over control over what we can and cannot do with our DVDs, CDs, music, players, OSes, etc.
You're right in complaining about the other examples, however =)
-AS
An even better idea... (Score:2)
Patronize live bands. Watch a theatre performance. Go to the beach. Take up a musical instrument.
We do not have to live our lives consuming the goods if they don't want us to consume them! If they want to make proprietary closed and encrypted CDs, then don't buy them. Don't buy CDs. Don't pirate them. Just find something else to do!
There are big battles in life, and DeCSS and such may be one of them. But the value of the battle is not just in watching DVDs under Linux. It's the right to do as we see fit, in our own lives.
So go and do so!
-AS
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:3)
New DeCSS code (Score:5)
I went through all of this work to set up my wonderful-est web site, with beautiful copyrighted content, with region coding so that you viewers in France see one version, which I charge more for by the way, and one in Australia which implements filter eluding porn links (this one's real expensive), and the regular cheap page for 'Mericans with all the banners you could ask for, doubleclick.com cookies in all the images, etc. My revenue needs to be protected by all of this CSS coding.
I send these pages encrypted in SSL, and now you're running this decryption program that removes my region encoding, and displays my copyrighted text in plain HTML for the world to see. Why, you reverse engineered a device which removes the encoding from my copyrighted web site content and are distributing it.
I'm gonna sue under the DCMA.
(Would somebody please explain this to the judge in the real deCSS case in New York, just in case he doesn't already get it?)
Who cares about DeCSS? (Score:2)
DeCSS is out there. No amount of legal wrangling will ever get it all removed. The MPAA has assured that themselves by even bothering over the issue.
What's the defense again? "DeCSS was a necessary first step in producing a program for Linux that is capable of playing DVDs." Okay. Good. I agree. Now, where's the player?
Ok, ok, I realize there's work being done on it, but I still don't see even a beta of a fully functional player. Here's what I'd consider a fully functional player beta:
Can play video
Can play sound
Can do the DVD menu stuff (mostly.. problems will exist)
Can do over 50% of the stuff in the player specs (as in branching, alternate audio tracks, etc)
Once a player exists, no-one will care about DeCSS anymore. Just don't use the EXACT code from DeCSS in the player. Hell, I'm not sure that you can, even. I need to read up more on the specs and try to grasp that DeCSS code I'm mirroring in 20 places
But, if a player existed, all attention will shift to it. DeCSS will be a forgotten memory. Plus, and here's the bonus, the MPAA's major offensive CANNOT be used against a player. Their major strategy seems to be that DeCSS is a copying program. If you make a player, it's not a copying program. It's a player, obviously. Just don't put in a write to disk feature (Leave that for the first upgrade after you win the suit
Ah well. I really just wanted to get it out there. If I'm incorrect, and there is a good functional player in existance, please tell me! Tell everyone. Tell the world. I know there are projects out there to do this, so lets give them some press attention.
Just another thought I had the other day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but DeCSS just uses the Xing key, correct? Well, how hard is it to crack all these keys? I mean, here's how I understand it:
The movie is encrypted using a "Key Prime".
The Key Prime is encrypted using all the myriads of other keys, including Key Xing.
DeCSS tells the DVD player Key Xing, gets Key Prime, and can decrypt the movie.
Well, then all you need to play a movie is Key Xing, or Key Sony, or whatever. Well, there's umm.. well, call it a thousand Keys on there, all of them encrypting Key Prime.
Since you can get Key Prime using Key Xing, how hard is it to get, say, Key Sony? You have the encrypted Key Prime using Key Sony, and you have Key Prime. Maybe you still must use a brute force attack, I don't know.
My thought was, why not get ALL the keys, and then spread them around? Look, the consortium could decide at any time that Key Xing has been compromised (which is true) and stop putting it on new disks. But, they can't add new keys, because they lose the market by removing all backwards compatibility with all existing players and disks. Also, they can't remove all keys because then it's free and clear for anyone.
So find those keys. Make your OSS player able to use ANY key, but it doesn't come with a key by default, it just reads it from say, key.txt
Then put all the different keys out there. Remember, once they're there, they're there forever.
Ahh well. Now I'm rambling.
---
Re:A suggestion... (Score:2)
Re:And furthermore... (Score:2)
You could decide truely randomly (perfectly adjusting your chance to get sued because i.e. you serve the real one only every 100th time or every second), you could decide by client (neat, make the laywers using lynx to get their case
Re:And furthermore... (Score:2)
add some funky documentation to the "false" DeCSS together with nice images.
Hide the "real" DeCSS (in the images) but don't tell anyone for a while (pretend to not tell anyone). Spread the thing like a wildfire to thousands of sites (removing CSS from a html-page is a must-have, isn't it), mirror it at sunsite.
All the people (pretend to) have no idea about the "dangerous" software they really provide (it's just about style sheets as we all know) and wait for the lawers to proof the knowledge of the hidden value. Or let them try to ban a program for removing style sheets.
Heck, write perl-modules for cpan, tex-code for ctan with this hidden treasure.
Mirror (Score:2)
This program is really cool. Check it out!
That's nothing. (Score:2)
Pay up, or I'll sue you in Virginia's courts.
--
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:2)
What the hell is this for? (Score:2)
I'm pissed. Moderate me down if you want. But there are always two sides to the story. If you wanted to get DVD support in linux, for christs sake your going about it THE WRONG WAY!!! Email the companies, email the developers, talk to the right people. AND DON'T MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE YOUR 14 YEARS OLD.
God gave us a brain, use it!!! Your rights, linux rights, deez nuts, your nuts.. WHO CARES. But i want my DVD movies, i want what i'm paying for!! I don't want everyone copying disks and raising the costs of what i pay for. I don't want people suing companies because of there rights to break someone elses protection scheme. DeCSS my ass.. You guys are fighting for a war that doesn't exist. And slashdot is the only benifactor of the advertising revenue this topic generates.
Do you think DVD technologies grew on trees? did it not take millions of dollars in investments and man hours to create this superb media format? Did it not take licensing with THX and Dolby to use superb sound? Does DeCSS bring this benifet to the masses? Did decss people license what others have spent BILLIONS developing? Did the linux community create something new for a change? NOOOOOO.. so SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THIS ALRIGHT!!
Maybe if you were responsible in creating something rather then trying to manipulate and re-evolve everything it would be as bad. But no, its not that way. So what will linux loose? What WILL decss loose? NOTHING.. ABSO FREAKIN LOOTLY NOTHING will be lost. Maybe the time of one person. But hell, thats alot cheaper then at the expense of millions of end users, hundreds of studios, thousands of licensee's and many many many developers other then the people who think they are kings here..
geezus.
Obfuscation (Score:2)
Now when I want to grab DeCSS to play DVDs on my Linux box, I have to search through ten times as much noise to find what I need.
It hinders the profiteers at MPAA, and it hinders the legitimate users as well.
Still, it's pretty damn funny.
Re:CmdrTaco Forgot one thing (Score:2)
What we need to do is strip out just the important bits, not the part that copies the
Then we can distribute the non-CSS part of DeCSS, the big long part, that actually copies the files, etc. Like it used to be legal to distribute Pine, even if a 2k patch could integrate PGP encryption into it, creating an encryption product that would have been undistributable.
The idea is to make the 'illegal' part a creative work, by presenting it in human language, as a discussion of the security systems. This lets anyone past 'script kiddie' level implement the program, but should make it legal to distribute. Especially if the parts of DeCSS that it would be linked to (the non CSS-authenticating parts) could do something other than just copy protected DVD
Oh, come on! (Score:2)
You know damn well it would sell. Like hot cakes, it would.
[ c h a d o k e r e ] [dhs.org]
Re:CmdrTaco Forgot one thing (Score:2)
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:3)
To map this to another context, imagine that some "randomiser" program, which generates, say, binary keys based on plaintext, just happened when applied against a certain legally protected dictionary file (or a web page, or a picture or song), to produce the contents of a suppressed document? It seems to me that both components would be legal, and that only the combination of the two would be a legal offense.
Thus, though the end result would still be illegal, the means to acquire the information would be known and protected by law. (It has been put better: "Information wants to be free.")
It would be best, however, for the DeCSS case to be thrown out of court, but this demonstrates the futility of gag orders in a distributed, computerized world.
Yet Another Suggestion (Score:2)
I'm not sure I'm all enthusiastic about the idea of coming up with uncountably many new ways of distributing the DeCSS source (rather than, say, concentrating on proving that it is legal). But if you are looking for yet another way to do it, and if possible one which will get the legal system into a not of paradoxes, I have a suggestion [eleves.ens.fr] for such a method which might be a novel way of supporting free speech on the Internet if enough people apply it.
--
Posted using the Lizard [mozilla.org].
Too clever? (Score:2)
Unfortunately, this may be TOO smart of him. IANAL, but I suspect that the offer to hire someone away merely as a predatory attack on the business that employs them (and not in order to gain their skills) may be illegal under some kind of racketeering statute.
Of course, if a real lawyer were to reply to this message with a professional opinion in the affirmative, he/she might be doing the MPAA's dirty work for them and helping get this poor fellow sued (criminally, not civilly!) when that's exactly what he was trying to avoid.
Re:About time! (Score:2)
--
A Good Idea? (Score:2)
One of the main (and IMHO, the strongest) arguments of the defendants in the DeCSS cases is that people have a right to watch DVD's that they own, without any hindrance from big companies. Tactics like making a "fake" DeCSS destroy the crediblity of the defendants--if people really should be able to freely distsribute DeCSS, it shouldn't be necessary to create another program to obscure the real one. In other words, why should we have to cover up activities (such as distributing DeCSS) that should be completely legal?
Furthermore, a false DeCSS program, while annoying lawyers, will be even more annoying to those who actually want to use the program--consumers. What if we win the DVD case, and it becomes legitimate to use DeCSS; I don't want to wade through numerous copies of a program porporting to be "DeCSS" before finding the real thing!
In my view, people could better utilize their time by supporting and distributing the true DeCSS, rather than confusing the issue and potentially harming the effort to create a free DVD player.
Usually you don't have to (Score:4)
Repeat after me: baaaaa. baaaaa.
Re:question.... (Score:2)
Sure, we'd all be confused for awhile, but think of how many more DeCSS.tgz files there would be online?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Re:And another thing (Score:2)
Re: Beatniks, Capt. Kirk, and DeCSS (Score:2)
God I hate those commercials... not only does he butcher the original song (whichever one it happens to be), he's even more stiff and useless than when he was doing Trek...
Re: Beatniks, Capt. Kirk, and DeCSS (Score:2)
I guess he just rubs a nerve the wrong way.
What next...
"People try to put me down...
just because I get around...
and all because if Priceline dot com, yeah...
saying I just got a great deal (blah blah blah)...
What is it, Spock?
Extra airline miles for each transporter trip, and all on priceline dot com.
Isn't it great how I get paid for having no noticable acting talent? All beacuse of priceline dot com... yeah.
Thank you."
Much as we all love writing documentation (Score:2)
With that in hand your average 8-year-old (or at least an 8-year-old
Response to Comments (Score:4)
I'd post these comments on PDJ, but we're currently swamped with slashdot hits, so I figgered I'd do it here:
- Yes, it's silly. Yes, it's a joke. But humor is one of the biggest assets of the freedom-loving community. Let's use it wisely.
- Wide distribution of DeCSS *may* be a minor nuisance for "good" people looking for DeCSS. Note, however, that the DVD-CCA has done much, MUCH worse damage by shutting down sites with DeCSS and sites that link to sites with DeCSS. The problem of having to sift through false DeCSS's is a drop in the bucket by comparison.
- Also remember that someone who's looking for DeCSS just to use it only needs to find *one* copy. Even if they get a few false positives, they will eventually find a real one. However, someone with a legal agenda will be looking for ALL copies. Having thousands of decoys will make their hunt much more difficult.
- If you're really worried about making it easier for "good" people to find DeCSS, mirror it! Or at least link to the excellent meta-site at dvd-copy.com [dvd-copy.com].
- Someone smart will be able to find the "real" DeCSS using file sizes and hashes. Fine! Let's make them work harder. Also, the person who does that coding (they'll probably use Free Software like perl to get it done) should think long and hard about it. Shame on geeks who sell out their brothers to The Man!
- I do not weep for Jack Valenti and the MPAA. They already mentioned the DeCSS Distribution Contest [zgp.org] in legal filings. I'm sorry if we're making it hard to sue the Internet. Maybe the next industry cartel with this idea will think twice about it.
- If you can't get into Pigdog Journal, try one of these mirror sites:
- Crackmonkey [crackmonkey.com]
- Cryptome [cryptome.org]
- Pottymouth [pottymouth.org]
- ZGP [zgp.org]
Thanks to everyone who's mirroring. Spread the love!"DeCSS" and a bit of publicity... (Score:2)
If the software were actually useful it could be a roaring success. Does anyone out there have a useful program just lying around that could plausibly be renamed DeCSS and relaunched?
If one is good, a hundred would be better!
Re:What the hell is this for? (Score:2)
The economically significant bootleggers (who mass produce illegal copies in see-no-evil jurisdictions), don't use DVD-RAM drives. They use the same type of stampers as legitimate DVD production.
/.
I got my mirror, do you got yours? (Score:2)
The scary thing is, this is the closet I've ever gotten to putting something useful up on the apache server I've been wasting clock cycles with all this time.
Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
Re:An idea... (Score:2)
Funny thing about trade secrets, the DVD CCA could sue Xing for publishing their trade secret in a public document, but this does not apply to the people who read that document. It's sort of like if an employee of Coca Cola published the recipe for Coca Cola in a personal ad in the New York times. The employee would be in big trouble, and Coca Cola would probably try to take the New York Times to court, too (though they'd lose). But they couldn't sue people who were making cola with the recipe that they read out of the times, they could just prevent them from using Coca Cola trademarks. Once a trade secret is out, it is out. If someone can duplicate a trade secret, you are screwed. If your employee spills a trade secret to a large number of people, you'd better hope he's rich, because he's the guy you've got to sue. A trade secret is neither a patent nor a copyright. Once it is no longer secret, it no longer has any legal protection. (Oh, by the way I am not a lawyer, I've only read articles by lawyers on this subject.)
So, why did the DVD CCA not copyright or patent its code? Well, the main reason is that anyone can go in and look at patents, and then make their own disks using the CSS. CSS was supposedly created because the law wasn't sufficient to stop piracy in the first place (and also for other reasons delineated here [slashdot.org]). This actually happened to Nintendo when Tengen used a flimsy lawsuit to look at Nintendo's cartridge patents and then used infor from those patents to make NES cartridges. (Tengen rightly lost that one in the courts.)
So, the point of making sure that DeCSS was readily available was so that is can no longer be considered a trade secret. If only a few people knew it, the companies might be able to convince them to remain silent. If everyone knows it, though, then it isn't a secret anymore and the companies can't expect any legal rulings based on the idea that it is. (Though the trade secret argument is one of the thinnest in this case... which is notable for thin arguments from the plaintiffs side.)
Re:Cute idea (Score:2)
There is one positive to posting the fake one that the real one doesn't have.
Which is, if the DVD CCA sues you over the fake one they will definitely lose and you can countersue.
If they sue you over the real one... well, I'm hoping they'll lose but not counting on it.
A suggestion... (Score:5)
That will really mess with their heads...
Re:Response to Comments (Score:2)
Re:Why do people get this superority kick from ris (Score:2)
It doesn't. But failing to examine choices because they *seem* risky is a short-sighted and useless display of cowardice. Galileo, Socrates, Ghandi, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Einstein, and other great challengers in history examined the common mores, saw their flaws, and worked to overcome them. The actions and thoughts that they proposed were ridiculous at first. They all faced humiliation - at the very least - and all but two (Rosa and Einstin) lost their lives for their cause.
Darwin Award winners, OTOH, do risky things because they are risky (read "fun") things to do. That's stupid. One might argue that they deserved their fate.
The power you have, and may choose to wield, comes from own intelligence and ingenuity. Just don't let them over-rule your common sense or sense of decency.
Re:Obfuscated DeCSS programming contest (Score:2)
The spirit of open source is not that you ALLOW other people to work on your code, but you encourage it, and facilitate it. You see other programmers as being people who can and want to help (even if for selfish reasons (I want linux to work with my FooCom USB rubber ducky!), rather than as people who are competing against you.
As such, obfuscated code is contrary to that purpose - if you make code that is virtually impossible to read, few will be able to contribute to it. Rather than prohibiting people's understanding and modification of the code through legal means, you are using technical means, but the end result is the same.
Don't get me wrong - I think there's plenty of room in the 'open source community' for obfuscated code contests, but only in the context of games for programmers, not as development projects.
I will say that it's not unreasonable to allow and encourage people to contribute extra obfuscations to your code, and keep the spirit of OSS that way.
Wouldn't a link to anything work? (Score:3)
Re:Boy you people like living (Score:2)
You forgot the 21st Amendment [nara.gov]. There's you first failed assertion.
(then, from a later post in the thread)
If you are prevented from doing what you will in the privacy of your own home, specifically as it regards watching a movie you've paid to be able to watch, haven't you actually lost (some of) your freedom? If you are unwilling to stand up for something you believe is important, haven't you relinquished your pride and honor? This would appear to be another failed assertion.
Based on these comments holding up so poorly to scrutiny, what exactly are you trying to say? That you don't mind being [Valenti|Gates|Eisner|CEOx]'s bitch because it doesn't hurt that much?
Corporations wage war on the people all the time. In this case the weapon they've chosen is knowledge/information and I'd like to think in that arena I (and my fellow /.ers, etc) am much more well-armed than Mr. Valenti and his celluloid minions and worldwide rent-a-cops. Yeah, it may still come down to money, but I can at least hope that a jury of my peers can still see (and still cares about) truth and freedom through the lawyer-induced fog of mis-/dis-information being slung about by the MPAA.
Just in case, slashdot-terminal [mailto], why don't you send 65 bucks to the EFF and we can all laugh about how frivolous this was a year from now?
Re:Boy you people like living dangerously (Score:2)
They're looking for big fish (Score:2)
Also think of what lawyers charge for various services. It is in the best interests of lawyers to sue everyone and anyone they can to get more and more moeny. Things like this are like playing with fire.
Ohh goodie more social Darwinism (Score:2)
I think being robbed of all my money and then spending all my free time getting rapped by someone of the same sex would get rather irritating after awhile.
I think you would change your tune if you were the one who was getting let's say 300 years in jail in some harsh maxium security prison for violating laws. Boy the big old freedom fighter can't do much from the dungeon can you? See I understand what is at stake I just choose to remain free and wait for the time when I have ture influence and change things like I see fit. You could always develop a hardware device that superimposes something onto the front of the television/monitor and then reincodes the DVD into MPEG3 or something else and do it that way. Or you could simply do the smarter thing and get a windows box that had the ability to play the movies and stream it like a real video stream from there to the linux machine. This stuff can be done you just have to care enough and it seems like you do.
Why do people get this superority kick from risk? (Score:2)
Tell me how making risky choices makes me inherently better?
I think I do know real pain (Score:2)
Secondly my reply to the above poster was in his socially bigoted concept calling all people who do not directly challenge anything to be nothing but mindless automotans. That was downright rude and I seriously doubt that anyone could state in a well worded essay that would incontrovertably prove that such has occured.
Thirdly I think that anyone who runs a linux machine and who is using a alpha stage decoding device using assemply or low level buggy C code is probably more than capable of what I just described. Hell I in fact have never actually sat down in from of a true "multi-media" machine with linux on it anyway and still I managed to come up with that little idea. Think it's still impossible?
Fourthly Your analysis of what the tormented feel is hardly accurate. I would be very interested in seeing exactly where and under what circumstances that said captives expressed their joy in imprisonment. Did they "love Big Brother" to coin the popular? I can think of only one person in fictional or mythical or spiritual literature who did that kind of thing (and I have read a great deal i[Dn fact if there was more money to be made I would drop CS and go into history where I reaDlly did do much better as far as grades and enjoyed it a hell of a lot more) that was the figure of Jesus of Nazareth.
He was the true inventor of the concept of actual forgiveness and all that good stuff (I could be wrong and quite frankly I expect to loose about 15 karma points from this little debate but I yearn for the debate and feel that we as humans are better for it). Being imprisoned is so against what people who truely love freedom could tolerate that I assume that if you handed a couple of cyanide capsules to one of those people and left for maybe a week they would most certainly be dead.
Fifthly I have had to work hard and never received much in the way for it. Unless you have been a Vietnam POW or been in terrorist hands in Lebanon I doubt any claim to the contrary wise.
For better or for worse I feel as I do. Historically (you can debate this if you want as well I can personally attest to this) that in fact the people who do all the major social "crusading" to do anything are those people who are in fact the neauvo-rich (programming does pay well I am told). They have the time, the resources, their ideals. They have everything and can be responsible to no one. I am sure that you planners of the world will single me out. In fact I would fear for my life if I didn't protect my identity so well. However I have a real good question for all of you thinking people I would like this topical question to be answered to the best extent of your ability: Why is it commonly assumed that I am going to be an "artist" or as the term goes "content author". What actual percentage of you are actually consistently engaged in the task of making the kind of money that it takes to survive in doing things of your own choosing? I doubt these things because when writing programs it usually tkes time
to even write the lousy ones. How do you actually make sums of money without being attached to a job? In each and every instince I can define I have never known the group of artists and the like to have much of an impact. Show me the local amateur DVD shop and then maybe I will seem more sympathetic to your cause. Show me cases documented in writing that in fact if say Billy Codehead or Billy Rockstar is actually hurt? Another little thing that has been stated is that I have the inclination to do whatever that individuals choose to do in terms of entertainment. I would go as far as to say that at some future date (because of my superb grasp of attempts at anonyminity and tracability that I could be one of these goons in black suits, did anyone ever think of that?). Throughout time we have sought to try and change things and we have had passion about things. I think that the needs of the "artist" are not that weighty because of the almost non existence in a modern society that is fueled with money.
Definition of "forced" for the uninitated (Score:2)
For example if for example if I want the modem that came with my computer to work and it happens to be a winmodem then perhaps I am being "forced" (ie I have to other reasonable alternative) to run windows if I am to have the modem work at all (withotu replaceing any hardware).
If you get mugged late at night in the streets of downtown New York City and a mugger takes you at the point of a shotgun and "forces" you to give your wallet over then that is being truely "forced" in your eyes. I don't know why people never think English matters anymore I guess they are too busy learning something else really cool like why DVDs are cool and you end up getting speech that resembles tarzan:
Me want DVD work under Linux *UG* FUCK MPAA, make bastards pay rah rah rah
In each and every one of my posts to date there has been a group of people or persons who has said something similar to what you have that you are not truely being "forced". Ok so I guess the MPAA is not forcing anyone to pay them royalties, your boss is not forcing you to work for money, you are not "forced" to eat to live, you are not "forced" to read if you go to a university lie Harvard and most especially you aren't "forced" to feel bad if something bad happens to you.
It really depends on how much of that "force" you think is actual force.
No not based on purely fabricated lies (Score:2)
It is essentially bigoted and elitest to think than anyone but fanatics and groups of "caring" people in the world are just stupid pawns for Big Brother.
That is what really angers me to the depths of my core. Just because I wish to live without obresion because I taped my particular tormenter and said "please sir hit me and beat me to a bloody pulp for the hell of it ok?". I sometimes wonder if people like the sadeo masohistic way of thinking in their dayly lives.
Another supporting piece of evidence is that on slashdot (yes on that wonderful utopia of web sites) many english people (and coincidentally man people who have strong social tied to those countries) really lambast Americans for being lazy, stupid, slothful, and finally stupid, then being denegrated as sheep.
That my dear happy friend is what I do not like. If you do not like my analysis please tell me the exact name of the person or groups who advocates said statementys and I will write a little e-mail just for them. Oh I would like to know how you speak for each and every person in New Zealand I very much doubt that you have the only computer and internet connection.
What if...what if? (Score:2)
If Lincoln had been there we would have had a lienent system that would have been ther for the south when they needed us. Instead we had next Jim Crow laws and widespread ignorance and poverty because of greedy people i charge.
Fighting is nice but survival is much, much, much better in the long run. Take various political dissenters. Some fellow a while back was involved with the former East Timoreese government before Indonesia invaded. He decided to flee and not to make himself a useless matry for a (currently then) lost cause.
I have a perfectly affable solution. Let's take a crack at the next format of the future and make it an open standard that dosn't support these big bugaboo features that people don't like. Then when the technology becomes outdated in say 6 months you can have something that you helped reate and you don't have to act like (as my favorite phrase for radicals taken from a book published in the year 1919):
"Bolsheviki agents of radicalism" pretty catchy no?
Loosing the Iron Curtain (Score:2)
I am not ignorant because I dont' have millions of dollars to quit my day job and jet set around the world to interview old men and women or to learn 20+ languages to intelligently talk with said people.
I am basing my ideas on some very basic primevil emotions that people have. Simply try this experiment take you regular gass stove (or perhaps fireplace if you prefer if you have none of these get a wastepaper basket, garbage can, or dumpster and create a fire in it. Now take an exposed limb douse it in a flamable liquit (gasoline, nitroglycerin, or crude oil) and see what happens. Ok good did that feel good? Assuming you survive that and have not lost conciousness from the excrutiating pain in that area of the body take a minute and wonder what death (pain magnified 10,000x your current pain level of the limb over your whole body). That is what people try to avoid.
On a more subtle level if I decide that unstead of direct harm a thourough form of mental torture with movements into physical deprivation (hint feed you when your howling becomes bothersome or water when you have finally pased out from thirst).
Well the one constant is this. Supposing I don't irritate the power that be I can live and think (and most importantlty scheme, plan, and generally advance my evil theories that a "Bolsheviki agent of radicalism" would want to do). Meanwhile you and your fellow band of lennists die at the hands of the secret police or remain in some Goulag for the rest of your mortal existence.
Look who's talking Anonymous COWARD! (Score:2)
I quote things liek this because I think that the biggest threat to people will not come from without (in the case of space aliens, corporations, or your local boogey man) it will come from a reverse form of utopia which will allow for a renewed caste system and the addition of a whole group of people the Proles (aka nonprogrammers) who will be completely powerless in the face of massive "Hippie Power"(tm) and wealth.
You pass enviro laws that raise the prices of basic goods and services thousands of times because we are "hurting" the environment (whateer that means), you support all sorts of miserable wretches outside fof said country and allow your own private citizens to go in want. You then allow for open methods of travel which allow for massive ammounts of competition. No my firend what will most undoubtally happen is not Big Brother because theyt are far too smart for that but they will just slowly allow you to become a hollow husk of a human which they can safely ignore. Obvious tyranny is soooo mid 20th century for my taste.
I may suspect (well because of the time zone differences and how late it is here but I think we have hit Europe or perhaps Asia (possible insiteful but I think that the most liberal literature thumping bunch are usually te ones that have the least to actually loose in the real battle the battle over power and walth of veto groups)
Reminds me of a good quote (Score:3)
The dead have very little influence on current policy in the world. Being a matry isn't going to bring you a long and happy life, nor will it allow you to achieve anything that people really value in the 21st century (namely technical ability and achiewvement). One of the best things that group can do to become oppressed is to start making a great deal of noise. The minute that happens you are done for. Wheras you had been previously ignored and left alone now you suddently have lots and lots of oppresive actions and ideas. Frankly I would think that most intelligent people would realize that it is better to fight another day.
or how about this one:
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be" --Polonius, Hamlet; William Shakespeare
I could go on in such a manner but I would be wasting my time with further references to the cencept of allowing for a life unfettered with burdens and hideous problems.
Boy you people like living dangerously (Score:5)
Look I am as supportive as the average nonDVD owning/playing person in this world can be but don't people ever learn to avoid trouble?
Even getting sued is a major expense eevn if you are innocent (I know), couple this with public embarassment and the problems that it can lead to and I think that it is a thourally bad thing. I actually looked at this program and he author's page on freshmeat at least an hour before it got posted to slashdot; and my opinion is pretty much unchanged.
People don't like drug laws and such and there have been many, many, many attempts to override them through similar attempts at civil disobedience; however all of these have failed and over 50 years later we still have unpopular drug laws and they are still enforced. Same with these types of things. Although the vocal minority of people (face it not everyone really ownes such equipment as a general rule and it becomes even smaller when you look at the entire population).
Also please tell me exactly how this does anything at all? So I have a program that has the name of another unpopular program. Does this really change anything? So if I decide to help out say say a fanatical regime in Iran does that mean I should rename my linux distro to Komini Linux? Face it danger is not a good thing and I would rather have my pride/honor/respect/and freedom than play DVDs on unsupported OSs.
Flame me if you like but I am interested (I mean really interested) why this kind of thing was selected by taco in the first place? Does he realize that VA and the individuals who control his job could end up being forced to possibly even realease him from employment? Yeah I guess the slashdot croud does like to live dangerously.
Re:Why do people get this superority kick from ris (Score:2)
Most people have certain lines that they will not let others cross without a fight. This issue appears to be one of those lines for many of the
The "superiority kick" may be because many people feel that those that value freedom so little don't deserve the freedom they have.
Re:WTF?! (Score:2)
Esperandi
I'd sure as hell tune in, if only to see the protesters outside!
Re:A suggestion... (Score:2)
I had the same thought, but all you have to do is check the hash on the file. Then I had the thought, "well, put in random garbage and make as many hashes and file sizes as possible so that they can't keep a comprehensive list."
The problem with that scenerio is all you have to do is scan the zip file and check the file names.
--
Re:Hate to say this, but... (Score:2)
Unfortunately, It's an arms race you would be destined to lose. First of all, it's inevitable that there wouldn't be that many different versions. Second, there has to be something in the code that's identifiable, so it's not that hard to scan for it (heck, how about just the help string?).
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Hate to say this, but... (Score:3)
It's a cute idea, but it's not that hard to defeat. If I was writing a 'bot to search for DeCSS, I would just check the file size and a hash, and keep a list of "real" DeCSS hashes.
It is kind of funny, though.
--
Re:CmdrTaco Forgot one thing (Score:3)
"File One. CSS dash auth dot c. Static byte perm underscore varient equals zero x zero a, zero x zero eight, zero x zero e, zero x zero c, zero x zero b..."
Heh. No thanks
43rd Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr
My DeCSS Software (Score:3)
Please download this highly useful code.
Right from here [utoronto.ca]
Great idea by the way
Cheers,
Q
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Re:Boy you people like living dangerously (Score:2)
Re:CmdrTaco Forgot one thing (Score:2)
Sounds good in theroy (Score:5)
I think a more effective way to fight the insanity would be to use the legal system against them. If say 10,000 people were to file small-claims suits against the MPAA, that would really hurt them and divert their resources away from DeCSS.
Since IANAL, I don't know on what grounds a whole bunch of people could sue MPAA over; but I'm sure that there's a lawyer out there who does. If a lawyer would put together a nice package instructing people how to sue the MPAA in small claims court (sample documents, typical costs, what to say & not say, etc) and not have it thrown out or exposing themselves to a counter-suit, I for one would be willing to spend some money and time being a thorn in MPAA's side.
"The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'
More harm than good? (Score:3)
1. It hurts legitimate searches for the code
2. Any scheme a legitimate searcher would use (e.g. knowing the file size) will be quickly mimicked. These MPAA people are not idiots, just assholes.
3. It kinda dilutes the whole 'civil disobedience' stance I think.
My favorite part of the article:
Start spreadin' the love, eh? And FUCK the MPAA