Four Arrested For Internet 'Theft' At OSU 505
This raises some of the same questions that Napster, alt.sex.stories and (not long ago) IRC have -- if a university is the ISP, how closely can they control the way customers (students) use the resources it makes available? Legal technicalities aside, it sounds like the students are actually saving OSU money by attaching their own masqueraded computers to unused ports on the network they're already paying for.
Maybe universities should concentrate on providing a 'target-rich' infrastructure (ports, access points, shared servers and newsfeeds), and not spend much money on PCs. Workable, word-processing-and-Internet PCs can be had for a few hundred dollars. (And high-powered workstations or servers aren't really at issue in this case.) PCs -- at least those that need to run MS operating systems -- grow obsolete at a pretty amazing clip; networking standards and equipment have a more punctuated evolution, even if it's just as exciting to look at in the long term.
When did Slashdot become Black Hat Hackers? (Score:1)
300 feet is kina pushing it (Score:1)
Another goatse.cx link, don't click on Read More!! (Score:1)
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:1)
Moral of the story: Just because the university does not supply enough rooms with ethernet (for any reason), it does not justify their actions.
Re:Shit. I set up ethernet over IR link in '88. (Score:1)
How should I know what it cost? This wasn't any sort of off the shelf hardware. It was a custom hack. I just borrowed the 30mW IR laser from the materials science dept. Me and some of the EE guys set up the laser/detector pairs at the 9th floor astro tower (top of the building) and at the dorm room (which had an ethernet port). An RS6000 running AIX acted as the gateway to the hardware at each end. The link itself looked like just another serial port to the OS. The protocol was plain ol' SLIP (PPP wasn't around yet). Aiming was the trickiest part. The slightest bump would hose the connection, and require re-aiming. But it worked! We put a hub in the dorm and shared the net connection to neighboring rooms. The dorm RA didn't seem to mind the net cables running down the hallway (we gave him a connection too!). I guess times have changed.
Were there any rooms with ethernet avalible?? (Score:1)
Second, there may be some of you who are saying "why didn't they get a room with a port, Gees a 24$ isn't that much....", at the collage closest to me (Oregon Institute of Technology), there is a waiting list for ANY dorm room. I would amagine that a collage that didn't have ports in all the rooms would have the connected rooms dissaper pretty quickly....
Third, if the collage was really haveing a problem with it why didn't they ask them to stop useing it. Even if it was a fire or safty danger, cut the cord then talk to them, Don't call the cops though, it gives your collage a bad name.
Okay stepping off my soap box now........
Shit. I set up ethernet over IR link in '88. (Score:1)
No, only public colleges don't earn profit. (Score:1)
Still, if they parked their car in a parking lot without a permit (permits cost over $24/year at OSU), would they be jailed for 'thest of parking spaces'?
I think not.
Re:Why graduate? (Score:1)
Two Stout Hall residents were arrested Monday for stealing access to the Oklahoma State University computer network.
"CIS reported that someone had rerouted a computer cable from a storage room in Stout Hall into private residential rooms in Stout Hall, allowing the residents of those rooms access to the university's network," Altman said.
Travis Wolcott does not understand why he cannot access the campus computer network when he is an Oklahoma State University student who pays technology fees.
Apparently whoever posted this story to /. didn't graduate!
Campus network != internet. They aren't being charged for theft of services where services = internet, but for the theft of services where services = campus network. (which you can likely access the internet from)
Re:Geez...more sensationalism (Score:1)
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:1)
That explains a lot! (Score:1)
There I was, just poking around Slashdot, trying to look for cool stories. It was March 2nd, and it was late at night. I knew I was supposed to be working, but what can I say? I'm a Slashdot addict.
After an hour or so of reloading the main page, my prayers were answered! Yes, Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus, and this time, he gave a fresh story! Eagerly, I clicked `Reply', knowing that in a few seconds, my dream would come to fruitation! I, too, would have a First Post!
Filling out the Subject line with an appropriately attention-grabbing quip, I proceded to create the Ultimate Post: one that is Interesting, yet Informative; Funny, but still Insightful, and highly Underrated. Yessir, Natalie would turn over in her tub of hot grits if she had seen what I had written. I was poised for greatness!
With much haste, I furiously clicked on `Submit'. Nothing. Again. Still nothing. I quickly loaded Mozilla, to see if Open Source really would work better. Still, no connection could be made. I was so downtrodden. My great work, my magnum trollus was meaningless. In a fit of depression, I threw my iMac against the wall, shattering it beyond repair.
The time, my friend, was 2:15. Those bastards stole my Internet. May they fry in Hell.
Re:Addendum to the fact that I'm an OSU student.. (Score:1)
But, when you connect these public ports to your private room, you will certainly download tons more. Before the university wires a dorm, they gather their statistics on how much is used and must be able to financially support those more heavily used connections. Plus, as others have said, that's one less port for someone who actually drags their computer to the lab. I know at my university, around finals time the labs always filled up. If their CAT5 is in a port, and they are out getting a pizza or ice cream, is that fair that there is a line of students waiting to plug in their computers into ports while they just come home, turn on, and go?
Re:Cat5->outlet (Score:1)
Re:Oh Crap (Score:1)
Re:Oh Crap (Score:1)
Re:Overreaction: A Way of Live Today (Score:1)
Mysterious bandwidth reduction tool? (Score:1)
----------------------------
Stanford $80/yr for in-room ethernet (Score:1)
I personally think the price is good. It is a very fast connection (I was doing 790kB/sec to other systems in Silicon Valley yesterday since it's spring break... but 300kB/sec at night during the quarters in not uncommon.) That is, even if I could use the Univ. dialup lines from my residence for free, I would still want the ultra-fast connection for $80/yr (which is less than what I used to pay a year for dialup before coming here).
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Re:well..and intent (Score:1)
I fail to see any real disadvantage to having fast internet access in your room.
For example, by using it in their room, they could download porn, warez, and mp3s every hour of the day, instead of just two or three.
Or they could check their email in their own room, instead of going somewhere else.
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Re:Former Police Officer dealt with the same (Score:1)
"Fascist!"
;P
Re:Oh Crap (Score:1)
>"Hacking" if you point out vunrabilities in there systems. It's a
>really sad fact of life. You can be branded a FELON, and convicted too
>easily. After that you may get a probation that limits you freedom to
>use computers and thus your job options, plus you may become a
>convicted felon and not have a right to vote about that or do a lot of
>other things.
>Gotta love america.
Shrug. Think of it as natural selection at work. This this nature's way of weeding out losers like yourself who would've gotten killed while provoking a wild animal or doing something equally stupid.
We didn't have the whole story... (Score:2)
From: "Martin G. McCormick" (martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu)
You are right. From what little you know about the situation, it does sound totally rediculous. Now, for the facts. I work for our Data Communications department, the ones who started all this. We found out what had happened because we had gotten a repair request from a person whose network port had quit working. It quit because these students who are being so picked on had removed that person's cable and spliced in their own. They also ran their own cable along a pipe chase up in the ceiling where there is asbestos insulation and fire sprinkler plumbing. Ya' don't mess with either of those things without getting in to a _LOT_ of serious trouble in most public buildings, not just here.
These same poor souls had done the exact same sort of thing last Fall and had been severely reprimanded, but not charged with any crimes. They basically got their hands slapped, but nothing serious.
We did not file the charges on these guys. The problem is that too many other people found out about the unauthorized activity and the Campus Police decided to really crack down. I think most of us thought it was extreme, but it kind of got out of our hands when the safety issues came up. That building was built in 1939 or 1949 or so and there is a lot of stuff that nobody would dare do today that was commonplace back then. Unless your school was built within the last 25 or so years, it probably has areas in some buildings that require special clearance for maintenance work since asbestos was so common until the sixties or seventies.
There are at least 5 dorms on campus that have jacks in every room and the one where the students ran their own network is scheduled to be closed down and renovated next year or so, but it isn't like they can't get access. If it was up to us, again, we probably would have just ripped out their cables, had Student Housing slap their hands again, maybe even not let them live there any more, and that would have been it. It sure didn't help matters, however, that they had all done this same thing 4 months ago and that they broke a working network connection and that they got in to asbestos, etc, but that is precisely how it all started. I imagine that your university is also a nice place to work and go to school, but I am sure they don't put up with this kind of activity and I am also sure that there comes a point in which the wheels of the gods start to grind at a level that any one person or department can not stop.
You now have the facts. I am sure I am wasting my time, but you probably didn't expect to get an answer. By the way, nobody even mentioned the fact that our network works very well because we build it to support the number of ports that are connected at any given time. When somebody puts their own hub on a port, it doesn't hurt anything, much, but if half of the students and staff did that, our network would just quit for everybody and so would yours. I assume it is Ethernet technology. Ethernet technology can not work properly above about 30% traffic level because of the asynchronous nature of the packets. We didn't even address this matter, but it is a fact and has nothing to do with rules or policies except that that is the way Ethernets work.
I hate it when one side of a story gets a life of its own so that's why I wasted my time to respond.
Sincerely,
Martin McCormick
Re:an OSU Students perspective (Score:2)
And the buy-your-own-AC-unit analogy doesn't really work, as that would mean they pay for it themselves. A better analogy would be to tap an air duct and re-route cold air into their room from the AC dorms. If they subscribe with a local ISP, that would be more like buying their own AC unit. Tough titties that they don't want to pay $4/month for the net-connected dorms.
Impossible? not even close. (Score:2)
----------------------------
Mod this up (Score:2)
Dude, what are you doing posting meaningful stuff on Slashdot for?
Yes, a university which respected its student body would refer a situation such as this to its academic judiciary. It seems from the facts presented that this isn't the case here -- the school doesn't respect its students enough to supply what's rapidly becoming base-level essentials. They're going ballistic for creative appropriation of what is already freely available. Excellent suggestion, snowball's chance in hell.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Scope out Kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org]
Re:Oh Crap (Score:2)
I got a semester of fast internet and some good admin experience. Fuck the meek.
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Re:Oh Crap (Score:2)
On the other hand...
a) I have one of those "we were nuts in college" stories (we apparently cross the building power main when we ran the cable, thus risking the coroner needing a dustbuster to pick us up)
b) I learned a lot about networking and routing with Linux.
I'm not trying to say it was wrong to do it, but IMHO this sort of thing doesn't warrant getting tossed into jail. The dorms routinely handle minor infractions (underage drinking, etc) "in-house", applying their own penalties instead of bothering the police. This seems like a more appropriate way to handle this one.
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Re:Okay, this is goofy. (Score:2)
If students paid, why they can't use facilities? Other question is that they should have violated usage rules (same as I'd try to use computer of my TA and peek onto some interesting files
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:2)
You pay for access to everything that the college offers. They didn't offer a jack into that dorm room. Period.
I suppose that, by your logic, *anyone* could have done this. Now image several hundred dorm rooms stringing cable down to the computer lab. What's next, a lawsuit becouse they didn;t have enough open ports?
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:2)
theft (Score:2)
--
Re:theft (Score:2)
--
For once Apple's not pricey... (Score:2)
Strange; the Apple solutions are actually the cheapest I've seen. A remarkably unusual move for Apple, I'll admit. But nonetheless, I have yet to find anything which runs at that speed and capacity which is cheaper.
Of course, part of that might have to do with the fact that the AirPort cards are proprietary (from what I've read on the subject, they've actually got it running on a modified IDE bus, of all things). The antennas are built into the cases, but an antenna can't possibly be that costly. Certainly the PCMCIA-based solutions are a hell of a lot more expensive ($150 is the lowest I've seen, vs. $99 for the AirPort card), and add in the cost of a PCI or Ethernet adapter and it gets prohibitive (another $150 for PCI, and $200-250 for Ethernet).
Speaking of which, anyone know of a good 802.11 PCI card with both MacOS and Linux drivers? A tall order to fill, I know, but I can't find any 802.11 PCI cards with even MacOS drivers. The best I can find is an obscenely expensive PCMCIA card/PCI adapter combo from Lucent, and I'd really rather not go that route if possible.
What exactly did they steal?! (Score:2)
These guys went out and bought the cable and hooked it up. Now tell me again, what was it they were stealing?
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
They should have figured that out *before* moving into the dorm. Or are we to do away with laws entirely for college students? Nothing like moral relativism to instill a little respect for society, eh?
They should have? You don't know shit about their situation. Maybe the other dorms with connectivity are twice as expensive. Maybe the other dorms were already full so they could'nt get there. Maybe those dorms were full because the campus authorities reserved them for their friends & family. What do you know? The fact is, for all we know, those kids are being criminally prosecuted, put under much stress, for an act that is, at most, benign, and that, as far as we know so far, has not caused any kind of damages. I guess that, had their hacked caused a week long outage on the campus network, they would have mentioned it in the article, would'nt they? Now stop being overlegalist, and get a bit rational.
OSU is kina pushing it ! (Score:2)
Actually, the real party in the "pushing it" column isn't the length of the cable, but the university itself.
1. The U says it doesn't have the money
to hook up ethernet, so the students
hook up the ethernet, without charging
the U, and then the U comes and
prosecute them for THEFT !
The students should have CHARGED the U
for what they have done - at least, in
that manner, they are NOT stealing
anything - all they did was participating
in a REWIRING PROJECT !!
2. The dormitory the students were staying
are WITHIN the campus of OSU. In other
words, the OSU is the landlord.
So, how can you charge people of STEALING
things when they never even MOVE ANYTHING
OFF YOUR PROPERTY?
Geeeesh... this whole deal stinks to high heaven.
But then, what do you expect, it's Oklahoma, the state that is only famous for oil rush and nothing else.
Quick facts if you didn't read the article. (Score:2)
The students were allowed to carry their computers downstairs and to connect them to the network with 20ft cables. Instead, they chose to leave their computers upstairs, and connect them to the network with 300ft cables. To the same exact hubs. They were charged with theft.
--
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
However, what could definately stick is if they had to pull breaking & entering to connect the cable. and if the school is pissed off enough . . .
Re:yah, right (Score:2)
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
Also I must agree that they already had access to the network so they could hardly be stealing access. This reminds me of the stupid companies that will sell you DSL or whatever other type of connection but they consider it theft if you hook your connection to a LAN and hook the rest of your homes computers to the network. Small-minded people shouldn't be allowed to hand out the keys to the Internet. It is my opinion that communication with fellow man is a right we are born with and that includes Internet access. In this case they were even paying for it.
Re:Wireless networking? (Score:2)
The default settings for the base station are to connect with NAT and use DHCP to farm out IP numbers to computers on the internal network. In revision 1.1 of the software, you can toggle whether DHCP is active just on the wireless network or also on the ethernet port. However, in the original software, DHCP always served both connections when turned on. Since a lot of schools use DHCP to assign IPs in their residence hall networks, the presence of two DHCP servers caused problems. I heard it created some rather spectacular network shitstorms. The base station can have NAT and DHCP turned off and simply function as a transparent bridge, but that takes extra work by the user.
With the latest revision, that's no longer a problem, but I would guess that a few schools out there still ban them. I doubt they'd be able to detect a properly-configured one in any case, but still....
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:2)
Enh. I don't buy it. Let's say you own an apartment building which is fully wired, and operate a little ISP for the tenants. The fee for this service is included in the bill, but if someone doesn't want to make use of it, they can take a deduction on their rent instead. If you find out that someone has run a patch cable into another apartment to steal the access there... well, shame on you for having left the port connected, but it still seems pretty clear that the guy is willfully taking something he should've paid for.
Also consider that the right to use campus computing resources doesn't extend to all of those resources. Students aren't allowed administrative access to billing records, for example. Likewise, OSU had offered a service as part of their housing package, with a discount for individuals who didn't want to / couldn't take advantage of it. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
That said, OSU is going to have its hands full explaining why other students who did the same thing (by bringing laptops computers to the port, instead of running long cables) aren't guilty of the same charge, or why the computer labs in the residence hall are in such poor shape.
Now THAT! (Score:2)
Reported at 2:15 AM? (Score:2)
2:15 AM? I guess the question might be what were they doing that made someone come in at 2:15AM and look into it?
Oh well, I guess it could of be worst, they could of been running Token Ring. I hear theft of token is punishable by 10 lashes with a cane.
-eddy
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
I guess I don't blame the university for cracking down. To look the other way or just quietly unhook them and ask them not to do it again probably just invites others to do the same. Can you imagine the mess if everyone got a spool of bulk cat5 utp and a box of rj45 connectors and a crimer and just had at it?
Not sure where/why the exaggeration of the seriousness of this is happening. I wouldn't be suprised if some cub reporter blew this ll out of proportion on a slow news day, Feh!
Ethernet -- out of domain collisions (Score:2)
I don't hink this is a criminal matter, just a good time to have the students take out the cable and don't do it again. (If they then did it again well then....)
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
The people involved in this case apparently didn't want to pay the $24 a month to get access in their room -- they thought they would just freeload by running a cable up to their room.
Not necessarily. As one of the two articles mentions, the univeristy is fairly strapped for cash. Though I do not know the situation at the university in question, it isn't unreasonable to presume that they also face a housing shortage--seniors and undergrad students stuck in what sounds (no internet, cable, air conditioning, etc.) like a ghetto-dorm leads me to believe that they were placed there out of necessity, not out of will.
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The Other Side of the Story (Score:2)
SID Link [slashdot.org]
The story from the networking guys. It sounds as tho this was not the first time these parties did this. They'd already received a slap-on-the-wrist for the same thing last fall.
Moderators: Moderate the post at that link up a bit, okay? It really deserves a +4 informative at the very least :-) Don't waste your points on me! Get that post!
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Hmmmm... (Score:2)
From what it sounds like, they were plugging into a plain-old 10 BaseT drop, not into a 100 BaseT line which would elevate the "offense" to another level. Yeah, I can see where it's probably wrong--letting one group of students get by with it puts you on a slippery slope. Next thing you know everyone will be doing it. (Yeah, that's a bit from the heap as well.) they need to be told, "don't do that" and the campus IT department needs to view it as a sign that they are ludditely-fucked-up when it comes to technology.
It's 2000 for gawd's sakes: not providing 24/7, high-speed internet access would be like asking students bring their own toilet paper to school. It is something that one assumes a school provides in all the residence halls. On the toiler paper analogy, would the campus authorities get pissed (no pun intended, really) if I stole a few rolls from a public bathroom? Likely not....
Summary: Yeah, they did a not-good thing. But they did it out of utter necessity and, on a not necessarily conscience level, social protest.
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Re:Wireless networking? (Score:2)
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Re:Neither "wrong" nor "illegal," because... (Score:2)
The students? No. They had their internet access revoked and student at OK State aren't allowed to use the public labs to check their email anyway. *smirk*
But these people might be a might interesting to bog down:
Registrant:
Oklahoma State University (OKSTATE-DOM)
113 Math Sciences
Stillwater, OK 74078-1050
US
Domain Name: OKSTATE.EDU
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
McCormick, Martin (MM129) martin@DC.CIS.OKSTATE.EDU
Oklahoma State University Computer Center
Data Communications Group
Stillwater, OK 74078
(405) 744-6301
Billing Contact:
Accounting, CIS (AC6894-ORG) cisbilling@DC.CIS.OKSTATE.EDU
Oklahoma State University
113 Math Sciences
Stillwater , OK 74078-1050
US
405 744 6301
Fax- 405 744 7861
Record last updated on 08-Nov-1999.
Record created on 03-Mar-1986.
Database last updated on 24-Mar-2000 15:20:21 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.CIS.OKSTATE.EDU 139.78.100.1
NS2.CIS.OKSTATE.EDU 139.78.200.1
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Re:So how many schools charge for network access? (Score:2)
Re:They were paying for access (Score:2)
The fact that they paid technology fees doesn't mean that they paid for the service that they took. If I go to a grocery store, I can't take whatever I want even though I've paid them for food.
Most colleges don't make money! (Score:2)
Actually, this is in general untrue. Almost every college is a non-profit organization. Most students (like me) are on substantial financial aid packages, making the actual revenue stream smaller than you might think. Furthermore, the cost of providing education is quite high, and is thus subsidized to a large extent either by the state or by the donors to the institutions. At Harvey Mudd, for instance, the revenue line item for money from the endowment is about equal to that for the student revenue. Now, for a place like Harvard with an endowment approaching US$1B, it's a different story.
To get back on topic a bit, it's silly for colleges not to have wired rooms at this point. I realize that net access is expensive (cabling is the least of it, think millions of dollars a year for bandwidth), but so is hot water. When my grandfather went to college, they didn't have hot showers, but now it's expected. So shall net access be. All waiting and prosecuting the pioneers does is chase those who might have an original thought or be techinically inclined away from your school.
Walt
Re:Fair labelling (Score:2)
---------------------------------------
Re:300 feet is kina pushing it (Score:2)
And it is 10baseT on CAT V, so they probably could push that limit.
matt
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:2)
The students in that dorm were authorized and even told to bring their machines down and hook it into that jack to connect to the Internet. They decided, instead of hauling heavy ass computers up and down stairs to connect via Ethernet, to make the cable longer to reach up and down the stairs. Same connection, same authorization, only this time it's illegal for some reason.
Re:Huh? Why is /. whining about this? (Score:2)
The students pay the technology fee.
In one room they are allowed to hook up their personal computers and use the network.
In another room they are not.
This is a non-issue. The administration should be feeling pretty sheepish about the whole thing, in my opinion.
Cat5->outlet (Score:2)
I hope you are not serious about routing their cable into an outlet. That could very easily kill somebody, and I'd like to advise everyone reading against that.
However, routing all their traffic to the Barney website, now that's funny!
Maybe, maybe not. (Score:2)
Just a little food for thought.
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must be very gratifying (Score:2)
...to the OSU students who live elsewhere than in the un-cabled, un-air-conditioned dorms (do they have indoor plumbing?), that even at a state university, paid for by all the citizens of Oklahoma in common, the administration maintains specially-made student slums, so the nobler classes can have someone near at hand to look down upon... Why should up-and-coming yuppies, those privileged sh*ts, have to wait until after graduation to enjoy the pleasures of economic class stratification?
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
They were paying for access (Score:2)
<a href="http://home.okstate.edu/okstate/evp/registr
Re:300 feet is kina pushing it (Score:2)
One thing that sticks in my mind is the fact that I had the same problem once. Actually a couple of students had the same issue. Our poor-ass school didn't even bother to include Ethernet cables in the dorms. We had the plesure of 33.6 modems! I can remember the day that a buddy on mine got a 1.3Ghz radio kit to transmit his data to and frow to a ethernet jack at the computer center back on the main campus. Hehehhe, that just about takes the cake I think! The only way he could have been caught is to trianngulate the radio signal. Hehehe yeah right, as-if thats gonna happen!! Our poor-ass University (UNT) didn't have a clue. I wonder if the radio is still there in the computer sciences building. It ran on batteries so I figure it must have died a week or two later. I lost track eventually, and then transfered to another school.
Morons! I guess that is why people in Oklahoma are, well, are from Oklahoma.... They be dumb fools!!! I heard AOL technical support is based out of Oklanhoma city?
Flame me, I know this is bait, but think about it....... They want Slashdot readers to cry and say that is wrong of the U. But I thik we should consider them to be fools, and marginal, petty criminals. The end. -Jon
Hmm (Score:2)
They probably won't get dinged too hard for this, but if I were them I'd pack up and go somewhere else immediately, costing the University a hell of a lot more money than the bandwidth they were paying for whether anyone was using it or not.
Huh? Why is /. whining about this? (Score:2)
Seems like the university's case is pretty straightforward.
Apparently
digital-to-analog phone converter? (Score:2)
From the second article:
To use other Internet service providers, a student has to purchase a digital-to-analog phone converter...
Otherwise known as a MODEM?
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Re:Would illegal parking be 'Theft of parking spac (Score:2)
> wrong.
Yet it is not obvious. Perhaps that means you
are making a fundamental error of assumption
pretty common actually.
Of course whether it is right or wrong doesn't
matter too much...least not once the armed
enforcers come to cart you away.
Anyway...when I was at school a few years back,
the people I knew were talking about doing
something very similar. Actually...they were
planning to have 1 of them get ethernet...then
claim he had multiple machines and get IPs for
them all ($5 each for extra IPs once you get the
ethernet service).
Re:Oh Crap (Score:2)
read in a while. It does make a good point.
Tho...I never did understand the whole problem.
Afterall...its just sex...nothing to get all
worked up about.
Re:Oh Crap (Score:2)
> answers to a Calculus test, that's a very
> ingenius hack. But it's still cheating, and
> when you get tossed out of university
> for cheating, I won't have much sympathy for you
Actually...studnets should be commended for such
things. Its called Applying Knowledge to a real
world situation. Simple proper use of a tool.
A definite real life skill.
Besdies...as Einsein Said...never memorize
anything that you can look up.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh Crap (Score:3)
We networked the upstairs rooms and ran a cable down the trash chute to the first floor, then above the drop ceiling into the cage and into a hub (breaking into the cage was the hardest part). We had fast internet for about a semester before the dorm electrician noticed and yanked the cables.
Of course, we just unhooked it and pulled down the wires in our rooms when we noticed them snooping around. They knew *someone* on our floor did it, but couldn't prove a thing...
Anyhow, what kind of insanity is it to look at this as "criminal activity" versus "harmless college mischief". Christ, maybe we should just go back to getting drunk and wizzing on the Dean's front porch.
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Overreaction: A Way of Live Today (Score:3)
That said, we seem to have moved into an era of overreaction. Kids hook up ethernet, get arrested. Woman protests president, gets arrested. Girl says she's going to bring *gum* to school, gets suspended. A boy can't even have a pocket knife at school anymore...what has our world come to?
No one has a sense of humor anymore, or a sense of proportionality. What has happened to us?
New XFMail home page [slappy.org]
/bin/tcsh: Try it; you'll like it.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:3)
You don't have to have network access and by the sounds of it these students decided to not get it but then ran the cable
I have observed that in general, wired dorms are in demand, and that many students who WANT a wired dorm are turned down because they are already filled. The School indicated that they would like to get all of the dorms wired, but didn't have the funds and time to do it all at once. From that perspective, perhaps the students did them a favor by wiring at least one room for free? Especially considering that they apparently WERE allowed to take their computer into the lab and connect to the net.
It would seem to me that the real solution would be to let the 300ft cable stay (make sure it is installed to code etc.), and bill the students $24 for a wired dorm room. I think that a $500 bond on a $24 'theft' is just plain silly in this case.
Re:an OSU Students perspective (Score:3)
It seems it is the former and therefore what they have done is to make use of the network to the fullest. So instead of moving around their computers they did the sensible thing and got a longer cable.
Would they be charged if they installed air conditioning in their rooms too?
IMO they didn't steal/misused anything. They used what they had available (and paid for) to it fullest.
Sounds more like the students in this particular dorm aren't be allowed to better their situation because that would devalue the other dorms that have paid the university for it. Overpaid, too, if it works like the Netware 5 network described.
I am sure here the university would be happy if as many students as possible could get access without it having to provide it. After all it is a way to attract students.
Addendum to the fact that I'm an OSU student.. (Score:3)
Well, there is another entity on campus -- Computing Information Services. These guys (plus Data Communications) pretty much run the entire campus network. They are in charge of all the labs and divide the funding into Student Tech Fee, and CIS Funding. Their own labs have slightly different policies: for example, they double as classrooms and whoever is is one of these labs when a class is about to start is asked to go to another lab or provide proof that they are enrolled in the scheduled class.
One thing that makes me wonder is that the ResLife servers go through CIS before they go to the rest of the world! So, do the CIS "Terms of Use" override those of ResLife? (Yeah, I've been a student here for FIVE years, and have worked for CIS for three, so I ought to know this.. but..
Ever since they remodeled the Classroom Building and added another wing to the Student Union, I have noticed at least one RJ45 port on every wall in those buildings! What will happen if the friend of mine who currently lives in Stout brings a laptop to the food court in the Union and hooks it up to the internet? Will he get arrested because he's not paying for that internet access with his room rent, or is he safe from ResLife because he's simply not in any dorm? Is it then covered by the Student Tech Fee or CIS Funding?
So, why weren't the guys who were arrested not charged with carrying their computers downstairs and connecting them in the lab? This is a private lab (as opposed to the public labs all over campus), so I'd assume it is run by Reslife. But the students weren't busted for using them, so who owns those jacks?
I see either some inconsistency or a just a simple lack of communication.
BTW, I don't even consider that room as a computer lab -- it's practically part of the laundry room. It only has eight computers, and has no lab monitor to watch them. (Then again, the other labs have at least 50 computers.) These are some of the old Pentium-90 systems (w/16MB RAM) that we had in the public labs from Fall '95 to Spring '98 before we upgraded. Half of them don't work well enough to use: at any given time, one cannot see the network, another has a bad keyboard, and another will be missing Windows entirely! The only things that really work are the network jacks! And these students just wanted to put them to good use -- just like they would have if the jacks were in another building.
-Quazi
Theft Is Theft -- Petty As It May Be (Score:3)
Honestly, OSU is an expensive college. Everyone I know who is or has attended it either is on a free ride thanks to mommy and daddy or because of a very nice scholarship. Of course, I know there are a lot of people who have busted their ass to afford tuition or earn the 'free ride' -- so I don't want to put everyone in the 'luck-dog' category. Still, Anyone attending there should be able to divy up the extra quarter per day if their internet connection is that much of a need for them. And last I checked, a 300 foot ethernet cable is going to run you a whole lot more than the $48 bucks per year you're saving by not having a network drop in your room.
I'd rather see a drop in every room and every possible point throughout the campus than see a school who's already bilking their students out of $15k or $25k per year trying to nickel and dime them to death on the vitally useful internet connection. But that's a moot point. I'm not saying that this isn't petty and the university is being a bunch of tight-asses about it, but a fee is a fee and they'd have to present a very impressive excuse for me to side with the students on this one.
Granted, there are a couple statements that seem a bit silly here:
Denman said the reason not all residence halls have ethernet is because OSU does not have enough money.
They sure seem to run a lot of advertisements state-wide on television, they have a well-catered -to football and basketball team and their tuition sure as hell isn't cheap -- maybe they need to drop someone's million-dollar salary by $100k and put in another 10 T1's?
"It's financial," he said. "There's not air conditioning in all the halls. There's not cable TV in all the halls.
When was the last time you used an air-conditioner or Bobcat Godthwait's Big Ass Show to research your term-paper? The university is saying that because they supposedly lack the funding for certain physical comforts and entertainment amenities, they can't afford certain things that are almost educational necessities. And the fact that they say "well, we don't have these two items -- so how could we be expected to have drops everywhere?" almost sounds like they're putting the value and need of an air-conditioner (it's warm there, but it ain't California -- come on folks) and a cable connection above internet and network access.
But then again, what the hell do I know.
---
icq:2057699
seumas.com
Re:Bad for the school (Score:3)
Your right this makes the school look bad, it could have been handled differently. Some low level BOFH want-a-be did the only thing he could think of and called the police. The student will get about the same punishment as they would have had this been handeled by the school in house as with the police.
Now because of a slow thinking burreauract OSU has a black mark that may make some potental new student choose another school. It will blow over and be forgotten by everyone but the britest who consider the Network "The tool".
So how many schools charge for network access? (Score:3)
Of course, at Dartmouth, everyone is required to have a computer, and professors expect to be able to use email for class assignments (even in the humanities), turning in papers, and such.
It's been like that for over ten years.
Now I'm surprised to hear about schools charging for Internet access. You would think they would be doing everything they could to encourage computer use as a basic part of the education, not treating it like some luxury.
Just reply to this post, but change the subject line to something like "Cheap State U charges $50/semester" or "Forward Thinking College; free." Then in the comment, you can elaborate if there's more to say. (Maybe this should be a poll.)
What's the problem? (Score:3)
--
Re:Oh Crap (Score:3)
On the other hand..
a) you wanted network access
b) You admittedly trespassed and broke into a locked equipment cage
c) You used their network services without permission, knowingly.
Sounds like theft of services to me.
Let's get what we deserve! (Score:3)
I tracked down where these particular student's lab fees and tuition went that paid to the school.
In fact they only have a right to 2 urinals, 3 desks in the chem labs, 8 days of doughnuts for the Sunday Alumni gatherings, 12 promotional OSU mouse pads sent to possible students, roughly 24 acres of lawn mowed on July 19th 1999, and about 34 stall doors in the men's bathrooms in several buildings. Maybe they can use those resources how and when they want?
Oddly I did find that some of my tax dollars went into a grant that paid for the renovation of 3 old buildings there. I plan to go collect on that by removing the foundation of 1 of the buildings, but I guess I can't.
Personally I was expecting I paid for the U's network, so I could hook up, but unfortunately I hear you can't pick where your money goes . . . because it's not yours after you give it to them regardless what you would like to get back from it.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:3)
If you've read the story and the accompanying links you'll find that while it happens to nicely fit the university's technical definition of "theft", it doesn't really pan out too well with some rather well-known facts of the real world.
These students did in fact have a right to use the university network. They used it every day, in their various labs and study facilities. Says right there in the news articles that were linked in the
Re:What's so insane about this? (Score:3)
The students are given access to the internet, the students are allowed to plug their own computers into the net, if they bring them downstairs.
$24/semester sounds like what someone would charge to make sure that the rooms with connections went to the students that want them and will use them. It probably doesn't even pay for wiring the rooms (think -- hubs, cable, patch panels, sockets in the rooms...). Does anyone think that these students failed to request dorm rooms with the internet connection?
So, a few lucky students are allowed to rent cabling at $24/semester. The rest are told to go fuck themselves. But some students say, "fine, you won't sell to us, we'll buy from someone else", and they end up in jail.
i agree with OSU (Score:3)
or they could let them go and owe them a HUGE apology....
Neither "wrong" nor "illegal," because... (Score:3)
Seems to me that the attorney(s) for the students should argue that the students had every legal right to access a network which they were paying for, and that the $24/semester extra for a pre-wired room is for defraying the costs of physically wiring the rooms in question. Again I repeat: all students are defraying the network upkeep costs, and those who pay the $24/semester extra are defraying the cost of physically wiring their rooms.
I sincerely hope that they and their attorney(s) use this argument, since it is very valid in legal terms. Furthermore, if this argument stands at court, the students could quite legally piss off the asshole admins who turned them in by immediately going back to their dorms and re-wiring the connection in question.
Does anyone know how to contact these guys 'n' gal to tell them how we at Slashdot support them, and about this legal argument? Seems to me that if they get a really sympathetic judge, their attorney(s) might be able to get an immediate dismissal.
On an even more important note, students at OSU ought to protest, and hard. Surely someone knows a high-placed administrator or, better yet, director/regent who can get all outraged over the affair. Someone ought to get a sever tongue-lashing (mmm, that doesn't sound so bad after all...) at least for this, as it is a very poor public relations move. If the students push the angle I stated above, then it should garner them 99% of the sympathy, and it's all a matter of spin. Many here have been jumping to the conclusion that what they did *was* theft, but the facts state otherwise. It's this spin that the students need to use, and if they do then media all across the state will run stories which lambaste OSU, and that's what these students need. End of lesson!
Liability is the Issue. (Score:3)
It's not so much the internet theft, it's the potential for property damage and liability.
Sure, these guys did it OK, but if they don't get punished it'll be open season on dorm wiring. Then some idiot fumbling around the wiring will get zapped to death with 120V AC across the temples. The university gets sued for millions.
The guys who install professionally are licensed, bonded, etc.
Did they use plenum grade ethernet cable? What if a fire broke out? Did they mark these cables? After they graduate, who's going to maintain and troubleshoot this system?
No, it isn't rape or murder, but it *is* a crime. If convicted, I'd probably give them $100 find and a misdemeanor blot on their records but that's about it. OTOH, if the punishment is more severe I'll understand why--the university will be trying to set an example. Sometimes you have to do that to maintain discipline.
Re:Overreaction: A Way of Live Today (Score:3)
One word: Lawyers.
I agree with Shakespeare on that issue...
this is not theft. We've been here before. (Score:3)
The courts found that since the university login screen included phrasing similar to "Welcome to our computer, enjoy using it", that the authorization to use it was implied.
Ever notice how all login messages now say "Unauthorized use, copying, distribution, or public showing will result in FBI activity"? Or is it just my Betamax video tape?
So, these guys were authorized access, since they had an account on the network. That account was not limited in any way in terms of port, access point, machine, day/date or time. In fact, they were able to, and capable of, connecting to the network in an unrestricted manner.
Every reasonably secure system includes the capability to limit access based upon specific combinations of time and location. None of these were in place.
If you don't post a no-trespassing sign, then people can walk across your property to reach their own. They are supposed to ask permission, but they don't absolutely have to. What's most significant is that unless you provide some obstruction that INTENTIONALLY prevents unauthorized access to either property or equipment, then the authorization to use it is implied.
Want to keep people off you property? Build a fence. Don't want to build a fence? Post a sign.
Want to get people off your network? Tell them so at login.
Want to prevent people who otherwise have access from gaining access surreptitiously? Lock the account in specific ways. Easy.
But the university did none of this. Instead, they leave each student's account wide open and then beat their breasts and tear at their hair when some enterprising students take it upon themselves to SLIGHTLY improve their living conditions at their own expense.
Let me get this straight.
1. These students ran a cable from their room to a computer lab to which they NORMALLY had access and which they regularly used.
2. They connected to an active, open, unlocked and unsecured ethernet port that was not used for any other purpose, but which would have been available to them to use if they were standing in close proximity.
3. They shared their improvements with their fellow students, thus reducing the onerous difficulty of accessing network resources.
4. This effort worked to narrow the "digital divide" experienced by students of low cost housing.
When compared with more affluent students who could afford higher cost housing, the difference in network access is alarming!
And for all of this, these generous, intelligent, innovative and mildy inventive students went to jail??????????
And we have the nerve to call this theft??????
Unbelievable!
We should reward them for their community improvement efforts.
Oh. wait. let's see now.
Maybe there's something to this. After all, if other students became accustomed to convenient access to the network, then they would begin demanding it more strenuously in all low cost dorms.
Ok.
And then the school would either have to ante up, or admit to a prejudice based upon economic status. Affluent students are given the tools to improve their grades, less affluent students are forced to waste precious time simply to connect to the network.
Obviously, the cost of network access is much HIGHER than 24.00US per semester. How do you measure the lost time in travel, concentration, queuing up in line?????
For those students with tight budgetary constraints, the school in question seems determined to make it difficult for them to operate on a par with affluent students.
But hold on now. One last point.
My tax dollars help support that school (I refuse to believe that OSU receives NO federal monies.).
My investments in the private sector probably do as well, to some extent.
So, OSU.......use my tax bucks and string a few hubs and routers!
Or, if you're serious, then restrict access of all students to specific ports, (which you are able to do), and face the public outcry with your heads held high. After all, you will have shown the struggling student that is of little use to improve themselves, since they will never catch up to the levels of productivity that more wealthy students enjoy. And just to make sure, you'll throw them in jail if they try.
Where's that ACLU web site? They should read this article.
whew,
theBitBucket.
Re:OSU students arrested for electricity theft (Score:4)
So the guys there, with Ehernet access at dorms, are having top-grade conditions compared to me and my fellows had when studying.
Okay, this is goofy. (Score:4)
But *why*? It's not that big a deal.
Just chop their cable, or feed it into an outlet or something. That'd be a lot funnier, they'd learn their lesson, and nobody'd have to deal with the police. Not to mention the deterrence factor... every kid who came into that hall thenceforth would hear the tale of the illicit cat-5 that got rerouted into an electrical socket.
I always figured it was just my school, but apparently all college administrators are insane.
Fair labelling (Score:4)
(if under UK law) "obtaining services by
deception", NOT with theft. Their local legal
system will make a similar distinction. The
only people looking silly for calling it
theft are those repeating and trumpeting
the allegations; the authorities will use the
right wording and not sound idiotic when it
actually comes to charging/arraigning these
people.
An Open Letter to OSU (Score:5)
To Whom It May Concern:
I recently read of an incident on the OSU grounds, where students were arrested for 'theft of ethernet'. As a concerned outsider, I must say that this decision makes OSU appear foolish and frighteningly overreactionary.
I fully understand that there are rules which always must be followed, however I am quoting from your own 'Appropriate Computer Usage' guidelines Section 1.02 paragraph A when I note that:
This sentence strongly implies that all students are granted access to the networks at OSU.
The sentence after this notes a requirement to take into account various obligations before allowing access to 'University information resources', and it would seem that you are defining this rule to have been infringed upon. It is unlikely that this is true, as in the previous sentence you have used the terms 'networks' and 'information technology resources' as seperate entities. Seeing as your policy does not clearly define any of these terms, it seems clear that all students are allowed unconditional access of the OSU network, so long as they are not allowing improper access to OSU servers.
Section 1.02 Paragraph D states the possible repercussions for breaking the OSU Appropriate Computer Usage agreement. It notes:
This sentence mentions nowhere the possibility of punishment outside of University channels, even assuming that what these students had done was truly a punishable crime.
Section 1.03 Paragraph C states that users may use only their own computer accounts, however it makes no rule against the sharing of network access.
Section 2.01 Paragraph C Sub-Paragraph 9 has a statement regarding unauthorized access of networks. This paragraph which reads:
This paragraph does not apply to the students in question as Section 1.02 Paragraph A clearly states they had the right to access the network. Beyond that, the proposed penalty for this infraction would seem to be a possible revocation of OSU computing privileges, not arrest.
Section 4.01 of the Appropriate Computer Usage agreement states the Consequences of Misuse of Computing Privileges. There is no privision in this agreement for external law enforcement. none.I hope the attention which this case has attracted will make school administrative officials take notice of this obvious massive oversight on their part. The only crime which is clear to me is a case of wrongful arrest.
I hope that the school will realize that any legal action against these students will produce only two things, a student who will face unjust future bias in their career, and a university which shows that it is willing to not only discipline it's students unjustly, but to do it in a manner which leaves legal questions for future employers.
In my opinion, even if these students have done something which is against the spirit of the school's usage agreement, is to clear all charges against the students and have any record of the occurances expunged from their records. Additionally, the University should reconsider the ability of whomever decided that arrests were warranted to competently perform their job function.
This is a matter which should've been handled internally, and without fuss.
Sincerely,
Kevin Way
----------------------------
WOW! This finally made it to Slashdot! (Score:5)
As for the fact that they were paying for internet access in the first place, they were paying the "Student Technology Fee" which is an automatic fee that's charged for every hour that a student is enrolled in on campus. This fee covers the cost of the STF-funded computer labs only. (I used to work in one of these labs for three years, and my managers used to remind me that that was where my paycheck originated..) On the other hand, Residential Life (http://www.reslife.okstate.edu/main.htm) charges their own rates and runs their own servers to support dorm ethernet access. The dorm these guys live in is the "old/cheap" 50-year-old dorm "Stout Hall" -- the one with no air conditioning, no cable TV, no in-room carpeting, and no internet access (just a sink that spits out filthy water and lead pipes insulated in asbestos that rattle during the night).. Students can't even get modem access because the campus is using a propretary digital phone system! And these guys just let the little renegade inside them take over, protest and steal some internet access.
ResLife has been proposing to refurbish this building for years, but they didn't have a place to put 400+ students. Until..
http://www.reslife.okstate.edu/pictures/new/new
..ResLife decided to put up new apartment-style housing, demolish the high-rises, and decommission Stout Hall. The students currently in Stout have first dibs to signup for the apartments. They will be quite nice -- two or four bedrooms, with an ethernet jack in each room and at least one extra jack in the living room!
..the guys just couldn't wait to move I guess..
Hell, we just got Southwestern Bell ADSL off-campus all over town here in Stillwater, and it is a hell of a lot cheaper and more reliable than living on campus with ethernet access!
-Quazi
Wireless networking? (Score:5)
Why not campus judicial system? (Score:5)
I assume OSU has such a system; correct me if this is wrong.
So why was that system not used? Usually colleges do all they can to keep their discipline issues in their own system, avoiding the added publicity and buerocracy that police involvement brings. Why not just issue a fine to the students to recover the unpaid access fees (and possibly a penalty fee)? Is this consistent with how OSU handles other discipline issues, or are they trying to make some sort of example here? If the latter, could that unfair application of the law be a defense in court?
OSU students arrested for electricity theft (Score:5)
"CIS reported that someone had attached an extension cord to an unused outlet in the basement of Stout Hall into private residential rooms in the building, allowing the residents of those rooms access to the university's electricity," Altman said.
An OSU staff member told police about some of the same people stealing electricity connections before CIS reported the offense, Altman said.
Eddie Denman, assistant director of Residential Life, said there is a slight difference in rent rates for residence hall rooms with and without electricity.
"It's not a lot of money. The difference is $24 (per semester)," he said, comparing Willham Complex and Kerr-Drummond Hall, two halls equal in all ways except electric connection.
Denman said the reason not all residence halls have electricity is because OSU does not have enough money.
"It's financial," he said. "There's not running water in all the halls. There's not ethernet in all the halls.
"There's a lot of things at the university that we'd like to do, but we just don't have the money."
Travis Wolcott does not understand why he cannot access the campus electricity network when he is an Oklahoma State University student who pays technology fees.
Wolcott said he and other students regularly take their own appliances downstairs and connect to the electric outlet with 20-foot cables.
"They (police) have yet to tell us what is the difference between plugging in our lamps downstairs with a 20-foot cable and plugging in our lamps upstairs with a 300-foot cable," Wolcott said.
He said he and the other students wired their lamps in their rooms from an old beauty parlor in Stout Hall.
"It was unused, and it had been unused for (about) three years," Wolcott said.
Wolcott said he did not tap lines into the OSU system.
Other options for connection include other electricity providers and campus fireplaces.
To use other electricity, a student has to purchase a gasoline-to-electricity power converter and can only use the connection after business hours.
Wolcott said that option also doesn't provide enough current.
"The lights in the basement are not bright enough for us to read (class assignments) by," Wolcott said. "They don't have enough filaments. Most of them don't even have dimmers."
Having the electricity connection strung up to his room gave him immediate electricity access, along with other students.
"More people came down to our room to dry their hair or to read stuff" instead of walking through the rain to the Mathematical Sciences Building, Wolcott said.
Now, the four students have been barred from using the campus fireplaces, and their OSU water connection has been canceled.
Jackie Bolin, Stout Hall director, said she could not comment on the situation because of the ongoing investigation.
--
What's the big deal? (Score:5)
a) They apparently had NO contract or other written or verbal agreement giving them the right ot use the universities PRIVATELY owned network (it's not a public right, you know..). So.. instead of paying the appropriate fees to the university, they used a connection they had no business using. What's the problem here? They WERE stealing.
Now... as for the punishment.. the U should go lightly on them. This is rather similar to other college type pranks.
Bad for the school (Score:5)
an OSU Students perspective (Score:5)