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Linux Drivers For Hollywood Plus DVD Card 90

Posted by Hemos from the trying-to-make-it-work dept.
Robotech_Master writes: "Someone's written and GPL'd Linux drivers for the Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. Source code available, but very primitive so far -- this is only the very first release. " Looks rough -- anyone been able to get it to work yet?
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Linux Drivers For Hollywood Plus DVD Card More

Linux Drivers For Hollywood Plus DVD Card

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  • Re:A/V synch problem? Nothing new.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    with regard to your sig, it should read:

    -- I use Macs for work, Linux for education, Windows for cardplaying, and Pillows for humping.

  • It's about time... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have been running NT 4.0 Server only because there are(were) no linux drivers for the Hollywood Plus. I have a few DVDs, but cannot often watch them due to the hassle involved. Roughly 30% of the time, the machine will not play DVDs or looses sound, requiring reboot. Running the DVD Software severly slows the machine, which is also out NAT Gateway and household server (odd note: DVDs have little impact on the machine when running 98.) I believe that linux would handle all three tasks very nicely and I am in no hurry to keep NT. If anything, the release of this source code will help the movie industry because I can now run linux and watch (and consequently buy) more DVDs. On a side note, I was speaking to a friend about an overseas studying program and she spoke of an instance where a students purchased laptops (w/ DVD players) as part of the package. They acquired the laptops here and got overseas only to find their laptops couldn't play any of the movies due to the zoning. Gotta love that... in this case, the anti-piracy BS is protecting the studios from profit...
  • Amen to that
  • The Problem here is that the newer cards do part of the decrypt in software
    they wrote some "tamper proof" drivers for windows, but they seem to think that that is too risky considering the technical expertise of the linux community
  • Well, the H+/Dxr3 doesn't do CSS in hardware - that's one major reason why Sigma doesn't want to provide support for the card on Linux. So we hafta use the LiViD CSS-auth code to do the dirty work. So that still leaves us in a problematic position... but I'll still support it, MPAA or no.
  • Their response to requests to JUST provide info on how to play back MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 framestreams has been basically that the MPAA and DVD CCA would see that as tempting us to use reverse-engineering techniques to get CSS and menus and all the other goodies that make up a DVD player. The MPAA and DVD CCA want to control the market for players, remember. So, Sigma has refused to provide ANY support for Linux with the H+ card.

    Like I said, it's certainly not for lack of trying - many people have tried different stances in regards to this topic, and Sigma has turned everyone down flat.
  • Well, the CSS debacle is the main problem. The chipset for the H+/Dxr3 doesn't do CSS in hardware, so you have to do CSS in software. Sigma knows the kernel can be hacked to expose the internals of a driver, and they also know what a fit the MPAA and DVD CCA would have if THAT were to happen. People have offered to assist them in developing drivers - even for free, I'd bet, so cost is probably less of an issue than you seem to expect.
  • CSS itself is a pretty simple procedure, involving relatively weak encryption... but the break was when Xing's Windows-based software-DVD decoding package was found to contain an unencrypted CSS player-key.

    Also, you're right, if they want their security to work, cheap hardware implementing CSS in software is NOT the answer - but for Windows platforms, where everything's closed-source, Sigma decided they could squeeze by with it. And, well, it's worked, so far. But it won't last forever. Also, CSS is doomed to failure, with static encrypted data and weak encryption technology (it was all that was exportable when DVD standards were being penned)...
  • The reason, as I've noted in other posts, why Sigma will not support the H+ on Linux, is that CSS is all done in software. (Also, it looks like MPEG-Audio work may be done all in software too - how lame.) Of course, they don't want to just release specs to tell the H+ just how to play back MPEG framestreams, either. They believe that the MPAA and DVD CCA will see that as inviting the community to use software which they (the MPAA and DVD CCA) don't approve of, then they'd get their CSS license revoked... you know, it'd be ugly.

    In other words, Sigma's covering their own asses. Oh well, that's business, eh?

    Oh, and the fancy new chipset you're referring to is in the $200 NetStream2000 board - which is what Sigma is recommending as a purchase for Linux users who want hardware DVD. Also, Sigma has voiced their intent to provide Linux drivers for the board. (We'll see if they ever materialize to anyone outside the walls of Sigma Designs. Last I heard, they were still at least a month away.)
  • I thought that it was the decription of the DVD lock (or whatever) that people are being charged for. As far as I can tell, this driver just allows the card to do MPEG decoding and output to the TV. Playing DVDs still requires a spereate player (that likely is considered illegal).

    Two cents.

    Harbinger
  • The dxr2 card actually does have a software based firmware that's stored in binary form on your harddrive I'm not entirely certain taht this is related to css decoding though. Now how is it that a card that does hardware based css decoding and stores the resulting mpeg in memory is legal but we can't allow software to do the same thing. It can't be any more secure in hardware when the dxr2 sources even tell you which line controls the macrovision.

    As for the dxr3 They probably moved to more generic chips in an effort to make the cards cheaper to manufacture (ala winmodem). The move to software based dvd decoding isn't atall suprising considering that alot of people are buying pIII500's as their first comptuer and barely even using the cpu power, why should you make them pay extra and get hardware to decode the dvds?

    It sounds strange to think that XING's mistake is the reason we have dvd in linux now, but I'm sure if it hadn't have had an easy css scheme someone would have cracked one of the harder ones. (Wonder what happened to the XING employee that wrote the code..)

    All I can say is that I'm happy with my dxr2 card that works in linux for all sorts of mpeg related decoding, such a shame they discontinued the card.. hopefully this driver works out for those not fortunate enough to get a dxr2.
    - MbM
  • That's my philosophy when It comes to buying hardware.
    I hope that people at Sigma will learn and start thinking about relasing drivers to their cards.
    The idea is: We can do it with or without them.
  • I actually was thinking in Sigmas's forthcomming products.
    I personally prefer cheap HW decoders than crappy SW decoding. That's the only way I have to turn an old computer into a Linux-Home Movie Theatre. ;)

  • So how's everything in ol' Morgantown?

  • They can't release the drivers because the Sigma card decrypts CSS in software, viz. in the driver itself

    Then they should release a driver that doesn't decrypt: a driver for playing MPEGs, not specifically DVDs.


    ---
  • Not fair. Sigma Designs is developing linux drivers for a new DVD-decoding card, the Netstream 2000. The reason given is that the new card does proprietary AC3 decoding in hardware, which they don't have to license. These drivers are close to being released. The news group mentioned is primarily for this new card.
  • linux.aureal.com

    --for the mx300 (or other vortex2 )
  • It may not work on Alpha, but I doubt this will be the reason. That "something" is a chunk microcode which runs on some processor on the card itself, probably a DSP...
  • Betcha the DeCSS-equivalent is implemented using the microcode that you need to rip from the Windows VXDs and upload to the card...
  • It may or may not limit your resolution, however the specs say it can display non-interlaced full motion video at full-screen or in a resizeable window from 16x16 up to 1600x1200, so you are covered. Furthermore, you don't even need to wire up the passthrough, you can just use the video outs to display to a TV if you so desire.
  • I bought 3 of those Sigma Designs Hollywood+ cards + Pioneer 10x DVD drives for christmas presents (for windows boxes).

    So Mom doesn't have one. Wanna sell it? 50 bucks?

    Wallace and Grommit never looked better than on a DVD with that Hollywood +. Even with a PII 266 the image was razor sharp. My nieces and nephews don't know about OS' and by the time that they're old enough to care - they won't have to.

    So I don't have a DVD drive running now - but that doesn't mean that I want to inflict my views on friends & family that only run Windows (even though I installed RH 6.1 on their boxes).
  • My H+ works fine. (With Windows, that is)
  • http://opensource.creative.com [creative.com]

    They've been doing a very good job with the SB Live! drivers, and you can also find Dxr2 sources here as well (though I don't have one, so I don't know how mature they are)
  • Ok, you seem to forget that MPAA does not hate Linux or Linux users. What the hell are you thinking? "Let's get those Linux hackers once and for all! Bwa ha ha!"

    Perhaps you're just paranoid...
  • I just know they're gonna', but I can't wait to see the MPAA's legal arguements on this one.

    But we don't want to suggest they've got it in for free enterprise, do we?
  • how about drivers for an DVD inlay board (like the creative ct7160 -- i've seen mention of people working on them, but that's about it)? are there any other inlay boards that work with linux?
  • I'm curious given that the author says you have to extract "something" out those vxd files to make this work. That mircocode that is extracted, is it Intel ASM? Would it work on a Alpha?
  • If I buy a book, I can do anything with it, except copy it.
    Actually you can copy it, as long as you don't republish it (either sell or give away copies).
  • The H+ and the DXR3 are exactly the same, but Im guessing you knew that. Well not exactly the bios on the card is different. Im using the w2k H+ drivers for my dxr3 and it works great thanks to a a small prog that makes the software ignore bios and region checks. But since creative basicaly has slow (note I didnt say this was bad, only that Im impatient) developers I elected to use this method to view my DVD's. It's also rumored that this allowes you to use the remote that a 3rd party has developed for the H+ card but I havent ordered on yet, but if these drivers work I may not need to since the drivers are open source ant there are several IRDA devices for linux. Wow if only the other programs I use were Linus (Asheron's Call, PhotoShop, 3DSMax).
  • That's making the assumption that someone has a TV. The 200 dollaer netstream might be cheaper for someone who'd have to go but a decent tv and the DVD player.
    treke
  • well, it certainly informed everyone a little something about the person who wrote it :-)
  • If you look at the instructions, they tell you to use LiViD or your favourite DeCSS implementation to get the MPEG stream in the first place.

    [TMB]
  • I have a Creative DXR3 decoder card, and the Hollywood drivers work with it (which is ideal because some versions of the HW card allow unlimited region changes).
    In fact, I remember reading somewhere that the DXR3 is pretty much the same as the HW boards.
    Win 32 drivers available here [fsu.edu]
  • nothing wrong with being 'greedy'

    Isn't that actually one of the 7 deadly sins? In all seriousness tho, greed is attempting to gain physical materials at the expense of all else. Usually this is considered bad. Lying, stealing, cheating, murdering, stepping on your mothers toes usually are viewed in a very positive light. I pose this question; if it is not ok for a human to be greedy, why is it ok for a company; a company being a collection of 1 or more humans working together?
  • 9.0.4 and DVD Player 2.2 have solved all the issues I have seen, on iMacs and G4's.. you might want to make sure you have both... (neither is yet in the software update... *sigh*)
  • "You speak as though copying GPL'ed code is a bad thing. Isn't that the whole point?"

    I think the poster is refering to the fact that little actual engineering or coding would be going on because there are an implied few people actually doing anything for FreeBSD. Unfounded but that's what's implied.
  • I believe that the CSS is done in the driver for the Hollywood Plus. I recently had an exchange of e-mails with Sigma Designs, the makers of the Hollywood Plus, about Linux drivers and they said that due to CSS there would be none forthcoming. They also refused to release any information on their products. They did say that a newer product, that cost a mere $200 versus the $60 for a Hollywood Plus, has CSS on the chip and would have Linux suppport.
    This announcement is one I have been waiting for, now I just need information on where to get drivers for some of the more feature rich sound cards (MX300 and some of the newer Creative Labs offerings).
    Looks like I won't have to put a MS box in the living room after all.
  • Wouldn't that be the MPAA?
  • How soon until a dvd -> mpg decodor comes out for linux?
  • Haven't heard anything about that....but I use my H+ with my resolution at 1280x1024 with no problems. I haven't tried anything higher, however.
  • Here's a conversation I had with Sigma Designs several weeks ago. They have a bad attitude. (Start at the bottom and read your way up.) From: Tech Support | Block address To: Subject: RE: driver--mc Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:02:37 -0800 Hi, Sorry, that information is classified. Thank you, mc NOTE : PLease include this whole thread of correspondence in your answer for proper follow-up. We'll have to ask you to resend your message if it does not contain the case history. Thanks for your cooperation -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:16 PM To: Tech Support Subject: RE: driver--mc So how about getting the specs so I can write the driver? No sense reinventing the wheel if you don't have to. Thanks again. --- Tech Support wrote: > Hi, > There won't be a driver for Linux for the current H+ > with the EM8300 chip, > this is due to the CSS protection. > Onbly a new product based on the EM8400 chip will > suport Linux. > > Thank you, > mc > NOTE : PLease include this whole thread of > correspondence in your answer for > proper follow-up. We'll have to ask you to resend > your message if it does > not contain the case history. > > Thanks for your cooperation > > > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 10:35 PM > To: tech_support@sdesigns.com > Subject: driver > > > Hey, when/where can I get a driver for my Hollywood > Plus card for Linux? And if I can't get one from > you > folks, where might I get the hardware specs so I > could > write a driver? My fellow Linux users would > certainly > like a driver for this card, and we would be willing > to help write the driver. Thanks for your > assistance.
  • You geeks who insist on watching movies on your computer monitors are deranged. There are many things that one could do, besides watching DVD's passively. One could cut several scenes out and study the scenes for the technical filmaking aspects. One could take a few shots and make a paraody. One could rip a few scenes, and insert say, Natalie Portman, as the red lady in the Matrix. All of thee forms of creative expression is valid, and MPAA has no right to tell anyone not to do it.

  • Actually, I thought Creative's dxr3 did decoding in software ... the dxr2 does decoding in hardware, though.

    As others have mentioned, see the Creative open source page [creative.com] for info on linux driver development of the dxr2-series card.

  • I have the creative labs card. Trying out the driver tonight.
  • I think this is sarcasm but I am not sure.

    Well, perhaps this line should explain it

    By making sure the customer is incapable of viewing the DVDs they purchased, the MPAA can ensure nobody will pirate any of their releases

    I think they should make sure that DVD's come in empty boxes instead. No-one can pirate it if they don't have the disk.
  • You speak as though copying GPL'ed code is a bad thing. Isn't that the whole point?
  • finally... although, i remember posting a similar story about linux driverfor the H+, but it was never posted... I'm glad someone out there is still writing code for this kinda stuff so that we can use it in Linux despite all the stupid lawsuits.. the only way that the RIAA is gonna get the message is if people just keep doing this. YAAAYY!!!
    ------------------------------------------------ -----
  • The problem with the H+ lies in the fact that it loads its keys from software. If SD were to open the source to the drivers, they would essentially be giving away the encryption keys (and DVDCCS (or whatever) would shit a brick and sue the hell out of SD). Given that DeCSS has been released, SD won't even release a MPEG only driver because that could allow someone to play a decrypted DVD (also potentially bad for SD). Really, SD's only choice in this matter was to not do anything for Linux for the H+.
  • As has been said, that's just due to the passthrough cable. You can go as high as you want, but you'll lose quality. However, the passthrough cable is not required if you want to play using the TV out.
  • You're not getting it.

    Linux users aren't the only people affected by the tactics of the MPAA!

    What about the people who buy a DVD for the home theatre and want to make a VHS copy for the bedroom? DVDs in Europe often have fewer features than North American DVDs. Try telling the enthusiast who owns many imported CDs that he can't import DVDs. Hell, what will people think if they were to be informed of the outright price fixing that's going on with region coding? People detest restrictions placed on them, even if they're not seriously affected. Intel caught hell from its customers over the Pentium bug, even though the bug itself didn't cause any serious problems for anybody. What people were angry about was Intel's response (Read this [x86.org]). In the DVD case, there are real effects of the MPAA's schemes. Anybody from set-top box users to computer users could potentially be affected.

    The business practices we're fighting affect the entire damn DVD customer base. Not just Linux users (might I point out that I'm not one of them, yet I still am vocal on the matter). I don't care how much of a difference it makes, I'm casting my vote.

    So tell me, how far will they have to go before they lose your patronage?

  • The people offended by the lewdness of the TV shows you cite are far from being the entire target audience of those shows. Married with Children and South Park are television shows. They're not real. If people are offended by them, then they really should lighten up. They have the choice not to watch them. The entire target audience of the movie industry, however, is being ripped off in a very real manner and I'm not going to accept being told to lighten up. And I don't have much of a choice of who to get my movies from, do I?

    Don't get me wrong here. I understand where you're coming from. I may have been harsh with that last post and for that I apologize. I also do understand that my actions aren't likely to make them turn around, but that doesn't mean I'm going to allow myself to get ripped off by them.

  • Its about time. The only reason i have a winblows partition is to play DVDs. If the linux DVD project picks it up i'll be formatting some hard drive space.
  • Not my dvd player...heard nothing but probs with the Hollywood tho

  • Will people never learn? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    What is it with "open source" programmers? Now I don't mean this to be flamebait, but are they totally ignorant of anything except for source code? Even after the whole DeCSS fiasco, they are still trying to write code which they should realise will land them in very hot water. When the MPAA gets hold of this then then Mr Johannsen will find himself in trouble with the police faster than RMS can denounce anyone making money off of software.

    This sort of attitude may make them "heroes" of the open source movement, but it's not really very sensible is it? I mean who wants to be hassled by the police and then end up in court over some drivers for watching DVDs, a task best left to *gasp*, DVD players. Maybe it's time for programmers to raise their heads from their monitors and venture out into the real world.

    We live in a capitalist economy, and corporations are the lifeblood of this economy. They have the right to make money for themselves and their shareholders, and trying to rip them off by "hacking" into their intellectual property is, in the end, harming everyone through the effects on our economy. Good for our corporations is good for all of us at the end of the day. However, since most /.ers seem to hold somewhat socialist tendancies (even though they violently deny it) they tend to think of corporations as the "enemy", even though they all rely on them for everything they do in daily life.

    Maybe it's time for them to take a good long look at this situation.

  • Hooray! (Score:2)

    by drwiii ( 434 )
    The H+ is probably the best DVD/MPEG decoder board out there for the PC today. If you have a Creative DXR3 [creative.com] board (which is basically a rebranded H+), you'd probably be covered by these drivers as well.
  • Sigma knows the kernel can be hacked to expose the internals of a driver

    Why do they think this won't be done with Windoze? Isn't DeCSS due to somebody examining the inner workings of a Windoze driver?

    If MPAA wants CSS to work, they have to do it in the hardware. The video signal would come out a seperate cable that plugs into the display card that inserts it into the display, probably by using color-keying and an origin that is set by software. They also have to get the display card manufacturers to agree to add MacroVision to any video out signal if this input is enabled.

    They have to realize that if the method of descrambling the disk, or the descrambled data itself, is ever in bytes in memory that a hacker can read, their code will be cracked. They can't have both cheap hardware and security.

    If they do this, they should have absolutely no qualms about open-source drivers, since the driver is no more powerful than a remote control for a DVD player.

  • Incorrect. The contracts they sign for CSS specs bar them from releasing any of their hardware specs, CSS related or not. E-mail them and ask them - I did.

    Could you really expect any more from the MPAA?

    --
  • Ok, so they lack tact, but you have to understand that their hands are tied anyways. They can't release the driver specs because CSS decryption for this particular card is accomplished in software e.g. in the driver. Releasing the specs would essentially mean telling people how to crack the CSS algorithm, which, in case you've been living in a cave on Mars for the past year, is verboten. Look at the fervor with which the MPAA is going after obscure people and random Geocities accounts for distributing DeCSS. As a company, with a physical address to recieve subpoenas at and revenue to be sued for, you too would be afraid of MPAA. If Sigma were to release these drivers, MPAA would eat them alive in court.

    I don't think they have a bad attitude; they just can't legally do anything about this. On the contrary, I think they have a good attitude, considering that they told you they would support Linux with their next product. That's a lot cooler than most of the companies out there today.

    --
  • Read my post earlier in this thread. They can't release the drivers because the Sigma card decrypts CSS in software, viz. in the driver itself. Releasing the specs would entail telling the world how to decrypt CSS. We all know how great that went over last time ;)

    --
  • well, my interpretation is a little different from yours... greed is working for one's own self-interest. personally, I believe in the concept of "enlightened self-interest".

    Lea
  • I can only hope that the drivers created for this device would be released to the public in at least binary form. Unfortunately, I doubt that the greedy company (Sigma Designs) will be so generous. I'm sure they view this as a proprietary trade secret which could generate serious revenue for their company.

    nothing wrong with being 'greedy', exactly, it's just a matter of knowing where your interests lie -- and it's possible that they don't.

    Lea

  • The problem with this is, the people who want open Linux support for DVDs are only a teeny tiny fraction of the people buying DVDs out there. If maybe 1% (if that) of their entire market stops buying DVDs, are the big firms going to care? Are they even going to notice?

    I like movies a lot; I'd like DVDs to be free, but even so, I'm not going to perform nasal reduction surgery to spite my face. If you want to, be my guest, but I'd rather enjoy the movies now than engage in a fruitless boycott whose only effect would be to deprive me of the moviewatching experience I so enjoy.

    And so, I'll keep watching movies in Windows, or in Linux when a commercial solution comes out, or when the open source drivers mature, and I'm going to put my faith in the courts and the legislatures to do the right thing, misguided though that may be.

  • And I think you're not getting it.

    How many boycotts can you cite that have actually worked? I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today, and he could only come up with one--when the company that made .ARC compression got snippy with a fellow who wrote a better version of it...and so he wrote .ZIP instead and everyone switched.

    What other boycotts do you know of that have worked? Amazon? Ha, ha. Christian fundamentalist groups find some new TV show to boycott for lewdness or blasphemy every time they turn around--but that didn't end Married With Children early, nor has it done much to derail South Park. What about the gay-rights advocates who're boycotting and protesting that new Dr. Laura talk show--do you see the network pulling it any time soon?

    And the "free the DVD" crowd, even counting those who don't have anything to do with Linux, so far doesn't seem to have even the momentum they do--else more than 15 people would have showed up for the much-vaunted geek protest event in Washington a few weeks back.

    I'm sorry. I can respect your decision not to buy any DVDs or DVD-playing apparatus...just don't expect me, or very many other people, to join you. Though the DVDCCA really does irritate the heck out of me, I can't see them suddenly seeing the light from me, or even from a hundred like me boycotting their products. Actually watching movies is more important to me than feeling smugly morally superior to other folk.

  • In fairness to the company, the NS2K is a commercial-quality product, not consumer-quality; it's actually meant for use in video kiosks and other applications where video is to be streamed over a network. It does a whole bunch of things no consumer would ever need it to do, which is why it costs so much.

    Presumably, once they have the drivers ready, they'll come out with more feature-light cards based on the same chipset that can use the same drivers--equivalent to their Hollywood Plus. But I imagine it's easier to write a driver for a card with everything and then take stuff out for subsequent cards than it is to write a driver and then add stuff. So wait a while, maybe they'll make something cheaper. In the mean time, there's always LinDVD...

  • Ummm, no, people who like DVDs but think Linux is another brand of Kleenex are why the MPAA will win, because they don't know or care and just buy DVDs anyway.

    I mean, come on, even if you leave out the people who use standalone players instead of DVDROM drives, and thus have no reason to boycott...well over 90% of the computer people will have Windows. And you can bet they won't be boycotting for Linux.

    If I thought it would work, sure I'd boycott. But if I boycott something, it's because I think I'll get results, not out of RMSish idealism. (By the way, it's apathetic.)

  • You people need to get a clue. Unlike the DXR2, the DXR3/Hollywood+ cards do CSS in software, which is supposedly one reason Creative/Sigma haven't released an open source driver for them yet.

    If that's the reason for not releasing drivers, then it's a really lame reason. They could still release the drivers, without any code, and it would be useful for general MPEG playback.

    If it doesn't do CSS in hardware, then it doesn't do CSS in hardware. Big whoop. Release a driver for what the hardware does.


    ---

  • No CSS in hardware, that's why! They know that the Linux kernel, libc, etc. can be modified to (effectively) expose driver- and program-internal activity, and they of course fear the MPAA and DVD CCA, so they don't want us to be able to exploit their drivers as an alternate source for extracting pure MPEG-2 framestreams.

    But we're not asking them to supply a whole DVD player application, just a driver for MPEG coding. If their hardware doesn't undo CSS, then the descrambling would have to be supplied by a someone else. That means that we would be feeding already decrypted MPEG stream into their driver, where the descrambling is done at some earlier point.

    So what's the big deal?


    ---
  • How does this hurt Sigma Designs or any company that releases DVDs? The software only allows you to *use* hardware which you have already purchased and to *view* movies which you either own or have rented. I would be surprised if Sigma Designs didn't pick up the driver at a later date and release it with their standard driver bundle disk. The only reason that they don't have a Linux driver is due to the cost to them to write and support it.
  • The problem is that consumers are VERY happy with the actual product. DVD's are great and I love being able to see pretty much and movie letterbox.

    Agreed that the packaging (companies and technical trappings) are annoying. But the product itself is fine.

    I think that not buying DVD's is not going to get us anything, apart from a 400 year wait for Star Wars to appear on anything but VHS and laserdisk. I think what is much more helpful is buying DVD's right now, but being sure to support hardware for playback that can ignore region controls and disabling macrovision - if those companies get enough money they can help fight against these things. And if they make a lot of money, then MORE companies will see how valuable this is to consumers and release players that do the same thing (I think this is well under way in England)

    Look at it this way - if you buy nothing, you are letting the people who do buy DVD's fund a fight against the things you believe in - and you are doing nothing to help.

    If you buy DVD players that support disabling region control and then buy DVD's, you may be funding both sides - but at least you fund the proper side to some extent. If you are really fanatical about it just buy used DVD's - then the MPAA gets no additional money at all, and you get a movie that will last longer than one hot afternoon.

    The other problem with your approach is that it ignores human nature, and I think history teaches us that ignoring human nature means things will not turn out as you expect or as you want. People want DVD's. They will not stop buying them. Given that, you must figure out how to use that to your advantage instead of trying to stop the unstoppable.

  • Start another X server at 1024x768. You get to the first using ctrl-alt-f7 and the second at ctrl-alt-f8 (this is assuming 6 virtual consoles, pretty standard on RedHat systems). You will have to play with xinits and startxs, but it works. I play this trick all the time to play Starcraft which requires 640x480x256.

  • From what I understand, CSS decoding is done partially in software under the dxr3. Creative has been unable to release enough information on the dxr3 for an open source driver, because the company that actually produces the dxr3 - Sigma Designs - can't or won't give up the necessary information, which apparently would include the CSS algorithm. Kind of a moot point now, but they have NDAs to abide by.

    Interesting that Sigma would go from all-hardware on the dxr2 to hardware-software on the dxr3, and possibly other cards. You don't think this was done to block development of drivers that could reveal or get around CSS, do ya? Another moot point, considering how DeCSS was developed *coughXINGcough*, though doing it in software lets Sigma make changes as demanded by higher-ups.
  • I'm pretty sure that the decryption key and decryption are done in the hardware and output directly to the monitor (assuming it works like my dxr3 decoder card), so RIAA won't have a problem, unless the driver is somehow extracting the video unencrypted.
  • Since both of the companies refuse to release detailed specifications, the only way to obtain the required information is to investigate the way the Windows software interacts with the card.

    Hmm, I wonder if they would be more willing to help out if we asked them for help? You can write to Sigma Designs here [mailto] and Creative Labs here [soundblaster.com].

    Be sure to keep it polite and to stress how it help their company.
  • Hey I agree with you. We need to be thinking of the long term, rather than the mere expediency of having another closed DVD player. Seems like everything is done is software (DeCSS or something equivalent must still be there), and nobody is willing to release the sources.

    My solution: Stop buying/renting/watching DVDs.

  • Well I'm proud to see there are developers working on gpl'd drivers for DVD playerd under Linux. However, isn't this illegal? The driver has to show how it unencrypts the dvd doesn't it? Or is this done mainly through hardware? I haven't read up on too much hardware about DVD's, but I have gotten engineering tours of Specialty Records and saw the different types of DVD's (18 looks like it would be a mother for #cable-dvd traders to trade and burn at 18 gig) :)

    Anyways, while I'm happy that there are still people working on DVD under Linux, I'm still boycotting DVD's. It's hard to walk past the DVD section at Circut City and not buy a DVD player...

    I certianly hope the MPAA loses and has to allow DeCSS to be continued.... I WANT A PSX2... :\

  • Re:How to contact the these companies for help (Score:3)

    by demon ( 1039 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @04:08AM (#1138378)
    People have tried. I've volunteered. I've even volunteered to assist with closed-source drivers. Sigma Designs (makers of the chipset for the H+/Dxr3) have SPECIFICALLY stated they will NEVER, EVER provide Linux drivers for the card. Why, you ask? No CSS in hardware, that's why! They know that the Linux kernel, libc, etc. can be modified to (effectively) expose driver- and program-internal activity, and they of course fear the MPAA and DVD CCA, so they don't want us to be able to exploit their drivers as an alternate source for extracting pure MPEG-2 framestreams.

    Lamelamelame. So now they want you to buy their $200+ NetStream2000 card, which is SUPPOSED to have Linux support sometime in the near future (not yet, mind you, and it won't be available for a month, at least, last I heard). After you've already bought their hardware. And they have little, if any, interest in any kind of upgrade program. So you'd have to sell your current card and buy a new card, with features you DON'T need, for $200 or more, to get what you already paid for? I'll do what I can to help the effort for developing our OWN drivers for the H+/Dxr3.

  • neither these drivers nor the H+ card do CSS (Score:3)

    by daw ( 7006 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @05:09AM (#1138379)
    You people need to get a clue. Unlike the DXR2, the DXR3/Hollywood+ cards do CSS in software, which is supposedly one reason Creative/Sigma haven't released an open source driver for them yet.

    So: (A) these drivers depend on the css-auth stuff from LIVID to unlock the disks and feed a *decrypted* MPEG stream to the card, (B) there is hence nothing more or new here for the MPAA to get mad about, and (C) (regarding another clueless comment farther down) these drivers do NOT demonstrate the availability of "legitimate" alternatives to the LIVID unauthorized CSS software since they depend on it.
  • Well, Sigma Designs has been asked for help, on the Linux newsgroup [sigmadesigns.com] on their NNTP message forum. They've politely but firmly stated repeatedly that they have no plans to release Linux drivers for the H+, nor have they plans to assist in an effort to create them. Apparently, what with deCSS floating around, they're afraid it would violate their contract with the DVDCCA, or someone else they had to license from.

  • Giving the MPAA more ammo (Score:3)

    by Militant Elf ( 19984 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:16AM (#1138381)
    Is it just me, or is this yet another place for the MPAA to point to "Alternatives" to DeCSS?

    If I were the MPAA, I'd keep my big gob shut on this one, and let it slide. This would enable them to say "Look, the Hollywood card (licensed) will let you play DVDs on Linux!"

    The only people to complain would be the makers of the card.

    -Militant Elf (A PFY for a BOFH)
    andrew-galvan@sos.uiowa.edu
    (remove the sos for deliverable flames)

  • Some corrections to reactionary Slashdotters (Score:3)

    by dave256 ( 24152 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @10:18AM (#1138382)

    I own a Hollywood+ card, and I can tell you from as long ago as mid-1998, Sigma Designs has been uncooperative with the linux community with this card. They claim it's because they're currently working on an entirely new chipset that does everything, CSS included, in hardware.

    What that means for linux users: Given a mpeg stream that's CSS encoded, you feed it directly into the card, and video comes out. Something along the lines of cat /dev/dvdrom > /dev/dvd_playback and it works. (I imagine there's more to it than that, but you get the idea)

    The Hollywood+, however, is an mpeg card. It decodes mpeg streams and outputs them. CSS for the Hollywood+ DVD playback is done entirely in software, in their player. According to Sigma Designs, the reason they don't want to release the specs is because their video overlay technology is spiffy, new, cool, and secret. I don't belive them, but that's their story, and they're sticking to it.

    I want a rock.

  • Re:How to contact the these companies for help (Score:3)

    by beamz ( 75318 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:52AM (#1138383)
    Creative Labs is supporting OSS.

    There currently *is* a driver for the DXR2 which is Creative Labs' own card. After the DXR2 5x Kit they sold, they decided to use Sigma's card which Sigma *refuses* to release specs to.

    The DXR2 Project is pretty mature now sporting DVD/VCD playing with video Overlay.

    One of the only benefits the DXR3 card has over the DXR2 is that it can play DTS out with the windows software.

    Here's the DXR2/Soundblaster Live OSS stuff [creative.com]


    - Ed Spidre

  • Re:Be careful... (Score:3)

    by slashdot-terminal ( 83882 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:17AM (#1138384) Homepage
    "The hardware wasn't designed to run under linux. Specifically, if the driver doesn't catch an interrupt and poke a value back into memory every 100 or so frames the system will blow a bit on it's EPROM and refuse to run anymore.
    This was implimented by the MPAA to prevent "piracy" under linux. It's part of their new scheme called ConsumerInaction (CI). By making sure the customer is incapable of viewing the DVDs they purchased, the MPAA can ensure
    nobody will pirate any of their releases. However, these guys are working on a decoder that'll work with the new CI-compliant machines... "

    Is there any evidence that you can really shortcircuit any hardware just by running linux? Hardly doubtful.

    I think this is sarcasm but I am not sure.

  • Great, But Do You Really Want To? (Score:3)

    by NormAtHome ( 99305 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @04:04AM (#1138385)
    I happen to have a Hollywood Plus decoder that came with my Pioneer DVD drive but I've never installed it. If this Linux driver for it works and you want to install it, more power to you but my question is why would you want to? I can understand wanting to play DVD's on your linux box if you have a DVD drive but from reading the manual on the card (unless I'm very mistaken, if so please correct me) it seems like no matter what resolutions your display adapter is capable of after hooking up the decoder and wiring the pass through you then limit your display to 1024x768xXXX only? I waited too many years to get to 1600x1200xXXX to go back to 1024x768 and I'm not wiring and unwiring those video cables every time I want to watch a DVD!

  • A/V synch problem? Nothing new.... (Score:4)

    by imac.usr ( 58845 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @02:58AM (#1138386) Homepage
    What is yet to be done: Video/Audio synchronization

    If anybody ever gets this part working, please apply for a job at Apple so you can fix their &$%#@! software DVD decoding....

    In fairness, the recent updates to the system make it perform much better. But still.

  • Re:Will people never learn? (Score:4)

    by cdrguru ( 88047 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @04:06AM (#1138387) Homepage
    The problem isn't that people are trying to "steal" from MPAA, the DVD Consortium and so forth, but that these people want to have their hands in OUR pockets.

    When they decided that we could "buy" products and still have no control over their use, this became silly. Intellectual property is one thing, but how about property rights?

    If I buy a book, I can do anything with it, except copy it. If I buy a DVD I can do less than I can with a book. This is progress? Look at where things are going. Will it stop with DVD's? No, it hasn't stopped there already. You can now buy a "music player" that the manufacturer has booby-trapped so that some functionality can be disabled remotely. What???

    I just want my physical property to be "mine" and to have control over it. If someone wants to rent me the rights to read a book but no other rights over it, I expect to pay less than I would for buying the book.

  • Fighting the wrong fight (Score:4)

    by DeeKayWon ( 155842 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @05:54AM (#1138388)
    But then our chief weapon against the evils of DVD encryption is lost. The content is still encrypted. Those MPAA idiots are still locking us into their commercial interests, and are not thinking about the future long-term culteral heritage. 100 years laters, archivists interested in what we see, how we think will laugh at us for trying to protect the unprotectable. The region-locks are also provide too much power over how we use the technology.

    Ah, the weakness of society.

    I myself am outraged by what the MPAA and the DVD people are trying to do. And the way I'm dealing with it is to not buy/rent/watch DVDs!

    Saying "jeez, what they're doing is really bad" and then turning around and buying their product is like sticking a big "rape me hard" sign on your back. If you don't agree with their business practices, don't give them your patronage! It floors me how people often neglect to vote in the most effective way - with their dollars.

    People are inherently selfish. We're seeing a lot of that here, from those whose main argument was they they couldn't watch The Matrix on their Linux boxes, and are now thinking that they have no argument since DVD playback through licensed players are coming to Linux. What about those running *BSD? Any other Unix? Hell, what about BeOS? Wasn't Be meant for multimedia? Sure, there's open source drivers for two decoder cards out there (H+ & DXr2) that could theoretically be rewritten for any other OS, but why should we be so limited in our choice of hardware? If I run BeOS on a system that doesn't have a free PCI slot for a DVD decoder card, does that mean I should be shut out of watching DVDs on that system?

    Our "chief weapon" never was that "Linux users couldn't play DVDs". Our chief weapon is that we are being denied fair use and that the MPAA and DVDCCA are illegally profitting from various tactics in the DVD market (player licensing and region coding/price fixing). That and some legitimate users (such as myself, whose copy of SoftDVD won't work with the ViperV550 it legally came with unless I use hideously out of date drivers) are being sorely inconvenienced by these schemes.

    In my second term EE design class this year, we had a mantra: "If the customer ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." And why should the customer pay for soemthing that doesn't satisfy them or outright pisses them off? Anyone who detests the MPAA and DVDCCA's tactics should vote with their wallets. We're the customers and we have to show them that we ain't happy.

  • Hollywood (Score:4)

    by PSiLiCON ( 160088 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:07AM (#1138389)

    I've read (on the Sigma Designs site) that there is a digital set-top box reference design based on Linux and the Intel Celeron processor. You can check the full press release here [sigmadesigns.com].

    I can only hope that the drivers created for this device would be released to the public in at least binary form. Unfortunately, I doubt that the greedy company (Sigma Designs) will be so generous. I'm sure they view this as a proprietary trade secret which could generate serious revenue for their company.

    PSiLiCON

  • Necessary steps (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:08AM (#1138390)
    Yeah, I got it working, but it was a bitch. The source is patchy, but what do you want? I can't recall an application that didn't start off kinda sketchy. This is how I got it to work:
    1. Turn off all the lights in the room (gives it that theatrical atmosphere. Also gives you a chance to sneak up on the card. More on this later)
    2. Be vewy vewy qwiet. Youw hunting dwivers. hehehehe
    3. Insert the DVD card, and boot up linux.
    4. Surruptitiously connect the card to a standard car battery. This is why stealth is important. If it's paying attention, it won't let you do that. Let it be fascinated by all the daemons firing up. I used jumper cables, but I'm sure there's a better way.
    5. Softly hum "Just Can't Get Enough" by Depeche Mode. If you really don't want to, you could try "Entertain Me" by Soft Cell, but it's important that you hum.
    6. Nibble on a hunk of swiss while compiling the drivers. I tried it once without, and once with gorgonzola. Didn't work either time. There's just something about swiss I guess.
    7. Summon any fourth circle or greater demon. This may require additional ritual, depending upon your relationship with the denziens of hell. If you're a consultant, a phonecall should suffice.
    8. Dance your heart out. You ARE LORD of the DANCE!!!
    9. Bang your head precisely fifteen times off your keyboard. The random sequence of characters generated should take care of all the switches you need.
    10. Fly! Fly like the wind!
    11. Drop in your copy of Troll 2, and you're good to go! It's important that you watch this movie first, as that the DVD contains a little bit of operational code to properly install the drivers. After that, you're good to go.

    All in all, not any more difficult than getting a Sound Blaster to run. I was quite impressed. Goodbye, windows partition!

  • What about the encryption? (Score:5)

    by (void*) ( 113680 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @03:09AM (#1138391)
    Isn't some form of DeCSS needed to handle the decryption? Or is this handled all by the hardware? If this is the case, there a whole lot of interesting issues.

    Firstly, Creative has shown that it can comply with CSS (fsck them!) and still make cards that have open-sourced drivers. More power to them! This mean that there is chance that the other unices can too have DVD playback.

    But then our chief weapon against the evils of DVD encryption is lost. The content is still encrypted. Those MPAA idiots are still locking us into their commercial interests, and are not thinking about the future long-term culteral heritage. 100 years laters, archivists interested in what we see, how we think will laugh at us for trying to protect the unprotectable. The region-locks are also provide too much power over how we use the technology.

    Well, it's hard to judge if this is a good thing or not.

  • RIAA will have a hart attack (Score:5)

    by roman_mir ( 125474 ) on Wednesday April 12, 2000 @02:52AM (#1138392) Homepage Journal
    More teenagers to be arrested, do folks at 2600 know about this one?

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