Lawsuits Suck 428
omnifrog writes: "Suck has an interesting view on all of the legal cases that are currently in the geek media. Jokingly, they claim that, '... as galling as the verdicts have been, the judiciary -- with every curt dismissal of every nerd-approved argument -- is doing the plugged-in set an enormous favor. Because if anybody needs a lesson in the way the real world works, it's the geeks.' An interesting point of view." Excellent piece.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Steven E. Ehrbar
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
Didn't Hatch work with Ted Kennedy on ENDA (the gay rights bill?). And as a Mormon, he's gotten rave reviews on religious tolerance issues. Anyway, I didn't want to turn this into a Hatchathon-- I wanted people to recognize that they aren't voting based on the IP law they talk about here.
If your vote is based on the environment, and not based on IP issues, it shouldn't be any wonder that you get politicians who compete with one another on the environment, but who disagree with you on IP issues. After all, the RIAA has people who will vote based on copyright law.
Right now, the Democrats are against us on nearly ever computer issue. If you are a democrat, you should be writing your congressmen, volunteering for local Democrat candidates who DO agree with us, and voting in the primaries. I'm not saying be a republican, I'm saying recognize your party's problem and work to change it.
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
A Dick and a Bush .. You know somebody's gonna get screwed.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Buddy, have you seen some of the houses these musicians have? Boats/limos/malibu beach front houses? MOST musicians are puppets..RIAA just pulling all the strings. Very simple, and you CANNOT compare it to a freeware program. Not at all. I agree that my anology of downloading songs was not the greatest, but I really don't feel that guilty anymore.
'metallica are dicks,
Least you got that part right!
Oh please, stop the "tell your congressman" plea...Slashdot IS the best forum to bitch on because MOST of the news media is listening to what we say. Have you checked out articles on Wired(C) or The REgister(R) or Zdnet (R) lately (I even recall a CNN report)? They continuously write stories and cite Slashdot for opinions. We are the people that make technology work so why not listen to us?
I never argued that "music should be free". I'm perfectly willing to pay for a CD I really like. I download a new song and if it (all the others) kick serious butt, I will go to my music store and purchase the CD. Pretty simple really...I am NOT going to pay for the MP3 online and then go to pay for a $20 cd. That is double paying. THAT makes no sense. You make reference to a "problem". What problem?
do it coherentky and with legal basis
Ironic about the coherent mispelling, but in anycase there IS no legal basis. There is NO legal precendent stating this fact. There bitching and complaining is similiar to cassette tape mentality. If my friend makes a copy of a song and "gives" it to me on a tape for me to listen to only and NOT to play to a live profit audience, what harm is done? Zilch. The same holds true for an MP3. If I download a song to listen to in the comfort of my home for me to decide whether or not I wish to buy that cd, what harm is done there? None. I could do the same by driving to a record store and asking the person behind the counter to put ANY cd in the store in a player for me to listen too. Is this illegal too? Nope. Why should I waste my money? There will always be that element in society that deams it necessary to abuse this "trust" of the consumer. By strangle holding the customer and shaking him for every last penny, the RIAA is really not earning my Trust YET I still am not breaking the law.
Sidenote: Why do you go to AOL chatrooms? What possible information could be attained there?
Re:Or not... (Score:2)
Okay - so what did you do about it? (Score:2)
Write your congressional representative.
http://www.house.gov/writerep/ [house.gov]
Take any issue you feel he might be ignorant one (you've pretty much got field to run here) and begin a well-written and concise explanation of the phenomena at play. Remember who you're addressing and even if you don't care for him, consider the fact his vote makes your law. Whatever you write will be filtered to countless staffers, and even if it never makes it all the way up the chain then consider how many of those staffers could be educated and perhaps - by osmosis =P - be able to pass on the information.
For example, I felt concerned about the clipper project and I took the time to explain to my representative Norman Sisisky [house.gov] why and how the technology could be abused. I can now say that I have developed a dialog with him in which I will take the time to explain and educate what to many of our public figures is an incomprehensible melange of jargon and pathetic "it's unconstitutional!!!" rants with little basis in either fact, nor -sadly- understanding.
Very Respectfully (this is how you should sign your letters btw =P),
-Tork
"Underfunded EFF" (Score:5)
For example, one programmer bragging about how much Java helps his bottom line was one-up'ed by another AC claiming that Perl programming had netted him "$5 million" a year.
Another good troll is to point out that the dot-com industry has, for the most part, only actually made money by selling equity -- not products or ads. Immediately a bunch of AC's will come out and say "oh, you're just jealous because you didn't make tons of money like we did."
Fine. I guess I'm the only person who reads Slashdot who doesn't have a couple mil' in the bank and a private jet.
Why, then, with geeks supposedly swimming in cash, is the EFF "underfunded"? I suspect that the "swimming in cash" is just part of the delusions of granduer that the geek community has. Sure, some geeks are loaded, but I think that a lot more are sitting on some stock options that have yet to do anything and even more are just pulling in a decent paycheck and want, desperately, to believe that they'll be millionaires someday, too (clue: no one ever became rich selling their time).
Re:US leads and the world follows - HA! (Score:3)
Also one of the first countries with a PKI. Yes, I have a cryptocard issued, like a passport, by the government. The specs are public and it's all based on common public tech (no v-chips here!).
And, from the Finnish constitution:
"The secrecy of correspondence, telephony and other confidential communications is inviolable."
I think a better title for your post would be
"The US does stuff, and sane countries do the right thing anyway". I used to live in Australia. Every now and then I look back and shake my head in disbelief...
Voters Guide (Score:2)
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:4)
Seems like too much effort. I've just copied a lot of mp3's to my computer from my CD collection, and set up a script that copies them until they use up all the space. If the record industry is telling the truth (and would they lie?) then I'm costing them a fortune!
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Kintanon
Please, Mr. Custer... (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:2)
Ever get the feeling you're being watched?
Rami
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Re:US leads and the world follows (Score:2)
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act [stand.org.uk], now on the UK statute books, which has been well documented in
The UK government has now announced that it is doing nothing about spam [theregister.co.uk], and that ISPs will self-regulate on this issue.
Americans should not believe that they have the monopoly on such legislation. While we may not be the 'best' in the world at much these days, the UK still possesses a powerful blend of stupidity, arrogance and incompetence in its politicians, civil servants and their advisors that will guarantee its place in the top ten for a few decades yet.
Irish Music Rights Organisation gets Legal too (Score:3)
Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Perhaps this is an unfair parallel to draw but american lawyers seem to be coming in and tearing down our world. Perhaps like the european 'pioneers' did to the native americans.
"the real world" is a two-edged sword (Score:2)
Why do so many geeks have access to cushy jobs, fast modems, broadband Net connections at home, and cheap ISP services? Because the Net can be used to make money, and so lots of people outside the geek world have an interest in it, and they throw lots of money at it.
When you move from the little tidepool into the big ocean, you have a lot more places to eat, but you also have to deal with the sharks.
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Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
Ok, forgot about them. Good idea. Maybe half the work has already been done.
Existing infrastucture, recognized name, and pretty much respected by the
Well then maybe they should start collecting member lists and use the numbers as politcal muscle!
"We represent X number of citizens across the country, and they are all registered voters as stipulated in our mambership agreement (or something like that)."
And to Threed who wrote: The US has NEVER been a democracy. It's a REPUBLIC and damn proud of it. Sorry about the mistake, but the point is the same. If you don't have money to burn to fight the good fight, use your numbers as a lobby group. You may not be able to fund a congressmen's next election, but you do have to power to kick him out!
Living in Canada, we do not have such power, or do we seem to get excited about issues of this nature. We have learned some important lessons from our buddies to the south, here's one back at you.
Re:And Suck's predictions manifest themselves. (Score:2)
Talk about impotent whining. The unwashed masses aren't going to do anything for anyone, that's why they're the unwashed masses! Everybody sitting on their ass looking to figure a way to get the *other guy* off *his* ass. Sad. Get off your ass!
join:
www.lp.org
www.ij.org
write a real physical letter!
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
http://www.senate.gov/senators/index.cfm
vote!
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Wow. I rule. Neat. (Score:2)
I sued Doubleclick for throwing a digital tattoo on unwary 'net travelers. To digitally identify an individual, track their movements without their cooperation or even their knowledge would seem to be the type of thing that bring the MIT types closer round the campfire. But even some Silicon Valley types agree its egregious.
In the early days of radio, a huge battle raged to attempt to pay for content. Taxing radio tubes was discussed. Ads were seen as an effective way to pay. Now that ads can be circumvented, how to pay for content in the new medium without overreaching individual rights? Tune in tomorrow... Same Bat time, same Bat channel.
The net wants information to be free. Metallica wants to get paid. And Sony is scared it's not seeing anyplace for media middlemen like itself in the new paradigm. Heady times, indeed.
Well, regardless, it is nice to see that as a lawyer I rule the world. Maybe I should ask for a nicer car....
Paul C. Whalen, Esq.
http://www.manhasset.net
The Law Office of Paul C. Whalen, P.C.
565 Plandome Road, #212
Manhasset, NY 11030-1301
pcwhalen@manhasset.net
Re:I want to help, what can I do?! (Score:2)
Work for your congrtessman as staff.
(Assuming your not lieing) you seem to have a lot of contact with your congress person. Now broaden your issues a bit, and decide which canidate for congress most fits your broad ideals. Work with him to get him ellected. Knock on doors. Write (for him) reasoned positions on geek issues. After spending all day in congress (either the general session or committie meetings) congressmen do not really have time to become educated on all issues. They hire staff that generally thinks like them to help them understand the issues fast. Staff is often hired from the ranks of those who helped with the campaign.
So if you work to get someone elected, make it known that you'd like a staff job (but don't come across too heavy) you have a chance of being the one who opens constituants letters (for summery), and a chance to read and contribute to bills. Remember your congressman cannot read and understand every bill (with ammendments) that come along. So if the bill is on a subject he knows nothing about but one staffer has strong feelings about (either ammendments that are needed, or just plain vote against) you have influence.
Organize, Part II (Score:4)
You go to the grocery store and buy some stuff. You slide your saver card across and save 40 cents on toilet paper. Now we know who you are and based on how much toilet paper you bought this week, about how many times you take a dump.
Maybe you pay for your gas with that exxon credit card. Now we know that's the third time you bought gas this week and we have your credit history to dig through too.
Maybe you call someone on your cell phone (Which we see you paid for with your credit card this month.) Now we have your calling record, we know who you're talking to, when and for how long.
We know about all those live goat porn sites you're so fond of browsing from AOL.
We know what songs you download with napster, what movies you rent at blockbuster, what CDs you buy at the music store. We know what kind of car you drive. We know when you buy a latte at starbucks. We know what you watch on cable.
Find a place that doesn't use computers these days. It's next to impossible to stay off our radar.
Seems to me that if we organized and communicated just a bit, we could take over and run the show. Quietly and behind the scenes, we could be Big Brother. Because it ain't Lars out there writing the software that runs all that stuff.
Re:US leads and the world follows (Score:2)
going to have to earn our rights and freedoms...
"Give me Liberty or give me Death"
means more than "Give me my MP3's or I will sulk around the dorm room"
Re:Shooting the messenger (Score:5)
Thank you for saying this. It really needed to be said.
The only thing I would add is that Suck apparantly has no clue about what political influence is. PACs and Associations and campaign donations aren't nearly as effective as personal involvement, especially on the local level. A volunteer who puts just two hours a week into a local campaign office for two months has just given a resource that cannot be measured in dollars. Most campaigns need a sysadmin. Glamourous? No, but your investment of time and effort will help tremendously. And be remembered. If you vote, that will be remembered. Especially which issues you vote on. If you vote based on abortion alone (either direction, then don't complain that your view on DeCSS isn't represented.
Corporations use PACs because they are a substitute for real live volunteers-- who are very hard to find. Money is cheaper than time, work or votes, so that's what they use. But work is more valued. The unions slather their party in volunteers, and evidence is being reported which says that they had the power last election to approve or veto the campaign strategies of their favorite candidates. Tremendous, possibly inappropriate power. Bought with time, not money.
The media wants to talk about PACs because they: 1) buy ads which are aired by the media, 2) are more interesting to report on than the volunteer in the back room, and 3) inflame people's outrage at corruption, causing them to spend more time watching the media to hear about it. But the truth is this: time you put in to candidates you like equals issues you believe in being advocated. You didn't 'buy' that influence. You helped people who agree with you get into a position to advance those issues for you.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Juries are also told on many occasions they can't talk about the case. Why? What is the legal system afraid of? Are they scared that a newspaper may alter that perceived reality,
err, yes!
and reveal the truth?
are you fukcing stupid? do you think what the papers tell you is always true and impartial? CNN never misleads? /. is a source of oracular wisdom?
wake the fukc up!
damn, now i have to spend my mod pts on another topic, and I wanted to give grahamsz a point (although he's wrong about RIP being slipped in quietly, don't you read the trade press?)
redi
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Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Sometimes you actually have to move out of your seat to find something out, that doesn't make it a conspiract.
I want to help, what can I do?! (Score:2)
But this stuff is not enough. I want to do more, but I am just a geek. I've never run a campaign, nor do I know how to get the necessary zillions of geeks all together in an organization like this. Additionally, I'm not a lawyer, and although I'm capable of good, logical argument (as anyone who programs is to some degree)-- normal people aren't interested/don't understand and apparently what seems valid to me is not valid to a judge.
My questions, then:
1. What else can I do?
2. Who could head up an "internet users association" like we need? (possibly someone at the EFF? IEEE? ACM? A friendly lawyer you know?)
3. What do we have to do to get this person (or people) to work on our behalf?
4. How do we get enough members to join?
5. Once we get members, how do we become an unstoppable juggernaut lobby like the NRA?
Geeks & Suits (Score:3)
Yesterday(?), everybody joined in to kick RMS for being obsessed with the finer details of licenses and for nit-picking over KDE going GPL.
RMS certainly is an odd one, but he's thinking about the law, about copyright and about how to protect OSS freedoms in the real world.
Just being in the right (in your own view), doesn't mean that everyone else is going to agree and lawyers will walk all over you if all you've got is a notion that your side of the argument is "fair".
Also, it's interesting that the author describes geeks as arrogant, self-satisfied and complacent. Makes a change from the persecuted loners Katz keeps on about.
Re:I want to help, what can I do?! (Score:5)
The main thing I have to say (and this goes for everyone here!) is don't get discouraged, nothing important ever happened without a little adversity. Stubborness is a virute.
1. What else can I do?
2. Who could head up an "internet users association" like we need? (possibly someone at the EFF? IEEE? ACM? A friendly lawyer you know?)
I'd say the EFF is the best choice. Let's talk to them about starting local chapters. The person who is most able to create EFFECTIVE ACTION should lead. Don't be afraid to grab the torch, you can always pass it off later.
3. What do we have to do to get this person (or people) to work on our behalf?
Lead by example. Get the message out. They will come.
4. How do we get enough members to join?
Make it fun. Freedom sells itself, so stick to principles. Be inclusive. Be passionate. Be stubborn.
5. Once we get members, how do we become an unstoppable juggernaut lobby like the NRA?
Worry about that later. If we worry about not having the force of the NRA, we'll never have the force of the NRA. People will join if they identify with the principles that we lobby for.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Re:Have you joined the EFF (Score:2)
If everyone on slashdot gave $50 to the EFF [eff.org]... Or better yet, find out the candidates who they think best will advocate the issues we believe in, and donated some expert assistance. Setting up a dinky file server. Helping a press secretary print. Configuring Postgres to track voters.
If even 1% of slashdot did any of that, we wouldn't have anything to worry about.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:3)
Corporations have battled and gotten overly strong IP protection, ability to enforce licenses that counteract fair use, and nearly to the point of power of policing consumers without gov't interference. Yet consumers, by far the people that the gov't should be most worried about, can't get the gov't to pass decent privacy regulations (instead, the gov't passes it down to a industry committee, just lovely). And all because corporations can easy toss millions to the right ears and get what they want.
I would like to believe the myth that if every constituent writes their rep and tells them they are against a bill, that the rep will vote against the bill. It's probably also a myth that every congressperson is under the thumb of some corporate interest, and listens to one person rather than 1 million people they are supposed to represent. Reality is somewhere in between, but I would suspect it's closer to the latter.
So even if we were given plenty of opportunity to respond to DCMA, I believe that the outcome would have been the same - it would have passed by a voice vote without question. Only rare cases occure where corporate-endorsed laws may get revoked, such as the "work for hire" case, but that's because every famous artist (PEOPLE WITH MONEY) jumped at the cause.
Not to turn this political, but this is why this election is important to me -- I'm voting against special interests. Get rid or limit the ability of special interests to influence the lawmaking ability, and then the constituents have a fair chance of affecting their congressperson's vote.
Re:Makes me think about yesterday's discussion (Score:2)
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
I think goes deeper than a lack of action... (Score:3)
And I don't think the Napster contraversy has done anything to help. The rest of the world (that bothers to look at this) sees it pretty clearly. It's copyright infringement. And you know what? It is. Just because you think it's in the best interest of the Music Industry to embrace the technology, doesn't mean you can force them to do it.
It's more than our lack of action that has lead us here, it's our attitude and our treatment of other people both in and out of our community.
dynamo
Perspectrum - The spectrum of all different perspectives
The Link - Join EFF! (Score:2)
https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html [eff.org]
It's SSL, and they take many forms of payment, including PayPal and e-gold. I've heard that one reason the Mormon church does so well politically despite the fact that they are small numerically is that almost all of them tithe their income. Well, when are geeks gonna start?
We can't lose (Score:2)
The author claims that Law will triumph over Technology. What about Napster or Freenet? These are only the begining.
Information truly wants to be free, and no law can stop it. Let me explain.
If you close off a person completely, no information can come in or out. But if you give them a slight hole to peek through, they can send anything. Muffle me with a gag, but still let me send ones and zeros with my grunts, and I can say anything. If I'm smart enough, I can scramble those bits in ways that outside listeners won't be able to figure out (encryption).
And if I'm not allowed to grunt, but someone can watch my cell, I can send information by doing things that seem normal to someone who doesn't know what to watch for: moving a cup around, scratching my head, etc. (steganography [tripod.com])
Why hasn't information been free before the internet? Because these sorts of bit contortions can be very complicated and require both the sender and the receiver to know what's going on. Computers allow bit scrambling and hiding schemes to be arbitrarily complex and arbitrarily effective, but still be just as easy to use.
Which leads to my assertion: Give me a small hole to send data through, and as long as I'm not blocked off, I can send anything through that hole. Legal measures can't stop me, not even technical measures can stop me.
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Re:US leads and the world follows (Score:2)
I guess this is because the US is really not as much the nation of freedom as it is the nation of CORPORATE freedom and power.
Come on what do you think is great with liberalism ? Individual freedom ? pffff....
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
By the earlier posts the full implications of the unpassed rip act were comparatively unknown.
Then in the run up to it being passed by parliament when lobbying would have been most effective my stories were all killed.
Then the day after it got passed they put a story roughly saying "Someone should have done something about this"
The US bias here does seem a little strong and I dont really see any reason why we cant have a few more stories posted to cater for more diverse countries and interests.
Re:We can't lose (Score:2)
One practical example is searching on google. Try searching for a string of words that takes a long time to search (try including some of these words: +a +i +when +where +how +why +what +are). The first time you search, you can get it to take 20 seconds or more. The second time you search, it'll take at most 10% of the original time because it's taking the data from its cache. If sender and receiver know which queries represent which bits, you can send a 0 by not querying and send a 1 by querying. Then the receiver queries all of them and a 0 is represented by a cache miss and 1 a cache hit.
There are almost an endless number of such ways to communicate on a complex network, even if tightly controlled.
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Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
--Fesh
"Citizens have rights. Consumers only have wallets." - gilroy
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Jury tampering. Inadmissable evidence being used to influence the jury. Uninformed commentary being taken as legal counsel. Prejudicial statements made about the plaintiffs/defendants by ignorant media persons.
If the facts are not being presented in the courtroom, then the respective parties have failed to do their job. The sequestered jury is meant to protect our right to a fair trial by our peers, uninfluenced by unrelated or inadmissable information from outside sources (who may have a vested interest in the case's outcome).
I agree that the system is imperfect. I am appalled by the excessively long isolation forced on juries in some high profile cases (i.e. the O.J. case). It's clear that the guarantee to an expedient trial by a jury of one's peers is not always met.
But I don't think our courts will be improved by further removing civil protections.
-----
D. Fischer
What school is this?! (Score:2)
With all due respect, where the Hell did you go to school? Though my life, from Michigan to Arizona, it's always been the jocks and business majors who were "partying and getting all the girls." They would periodically stop ignoring activism in order to scoff at it.
And who are these english majors that are trendy activists for a living? I don't know any english majors who are making *shit* right now, except for me, who also majored in CS. Which is the only reason I have a job, BTW. I think maybe your rosy view of activism is the result of some strange upbringing... I can tell you it's not like that everywhere.
Libertarian Abuse (Score:2)
Libertarianism supports personal freedom. Freedom to donate to whom you wish in the amounts that you wish, but it also requires personal responsiblity. The responsiblity to actually donate your time and money to causes that are important to you.
That's the problem here, and it's far more pervasive than geeks alone. Americans shun personal responsiblity. They even give up their freedoms in order to aviod responsiblity. They feel more comfortable paying taxes and having their money funneled to programs they don't support.
No political system that requires personal responsiblity is going to work in this country unless there is a major shift in values. Libertarianism, communism, direct democracy, are all flawed because they rely on the citizens. Only the represtative republic sufficiently removes responsiblity from the individual, but it has a lot of compromises.
Anyhow, that's my rant.
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:5)
Jon Katz can't because: a) he can't write. b) noone has heard of him except for slashdot people (who he has only a little credibility with). c) he doesn't agree with the views of most /. readers. d) He can't work with many politicians. A good leader will work with anyone to get the job done-- not dragging in other issues that aren't related to your group.
Finally, I really don't think that most slashdot readers would actually rally behind anyone except someone who courted them to the exclusion of everyone else.But let's try a test. Who wants to support Orin Hatch? Anyone, anyone? He's fought for fair use protection in copyright law, and as chairman of the Judiciary committee is able to get stuff done. His opponents in the committee are opposed to fair use protections. He was worried about MS before most people. Any takers? No? Why not?
If people on slashdot reward him with thank you emails, and if Utah slashdotters volunteer for him, it will be a sign that this can work. But most computer people I've talked to don't like Hatch. And do you know what? THEY DON'T KNOW WHY! Read up on him. And if you still don't like him, at least admit that some other issue is more important to you than IP law.
If you are apathetic, don't defend it with a lengthy chain of justifications and false fanaticism. Just admit that you aren't doing anything.
If you are involved, I'll apologize to you in person next time I see you. It isn't like there are that many of us.
like lawsuits, smarmy unresearched rants are good (Score:3)
According to the Suck.com essay template: That car crash I was in two years ago was the best thing for me. It taught me a lesson, it did. And getting beaten up every day in eighth grade- character building.
When suck goes under, we'll say that it was good for them and the cause of open-source internet humor.
I get my smarmy rants from a more pure source... www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]
US leads and the world follows (Score:5)
Re:Solution (Score:2)
Massive Coordinated Civil Disobedience (Score:2)
I usually can't stand "Suck"'s smarmy attitude, but this time, I gotta say, they're spot on. We of the geek set spend most of our time writing about our gripes and actually doing precious little about them. "I'll show them...I'll write a nasty post on Slashdot!"...that effectively summarizes our modus operandi (and I'm not excluding myself here).
Most of us don't have the money to make the system change. And most of us don't have the connections to make the system change. The only tool available to us is our numbers. I've suggested this before: if we were to coordinate our disregard for these rulings with massive civil disobedience (say by posting links to the deCSS software on every BBS and message board we know of, preferably message boards on corporate sites) we'd be able to put a lot more pressure on the system.
Of course, we'd have to be willing to suffer the legal consequences. We can mitigate the individual suffering by making sure a lot of people participate. It's harder to persecute movements than individuals. But damnit, if we don't start doing stuff like this, Suck will be absolutely right and we will get what we deserve.
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
What he's proposing is to create a SIG, not a political party. A SIG lobbies congressmen, and in turn, pays for a part of their campaign.
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Link. Not only does he save princess Zelda... (Score:2)
Here is a link to the Electronic Frontier Foundation [eff.org].
Suck is always so resplendant with useless links, they could at least have included a useful one.
Re:Have you joined the EFF (Score:4)
Re:Cyberselfish, anyone? (Score:3)
she was amazed that the underappreciated, downtrodden nerd didn't associate with other underappreciated downtrodden people, like minorities, environmentalists, labor, etc. but rather associated with big business.
I'm sorry. At my school, the labor and environmentalist activists were partying and getting all the girls. They were the cool crowd. The professors liked them, and the administration lavished them with money. How anyone can say that being a leftist activist in college is not cool is beyond me.
Everyone like that who I knew in HS went to college and majored in English, New Media or Political Science. They are now Cool Kids and Trendy Activists for a living. Despite my 'downtrodden' status, I still haven't dated any of them.
Corporations like Transmeta, VA Linux, Red Hat, etc.-- now THEY hate geeks. Sure. They aren't just in favor of us. They ARE us. They own the server this comment is posted on. They made the computer many of you read this with. They fund the trade shows that other corporations pay to send us to so we can hang out.
With enemies like that, who needs friends?
I'll give it a try. (Score:2)
I am going to start looking into the volunteer thing, as you (and many other posters) have suggested-- it seems to be the best way to get some influence. I don't like it, and it smacks of immorality and a corrupt political system, but if it's the way it must be done-- so be it.
Additionally, I will be talking to the EFF about starting a local chapter. I'm in Indianapolis, if anyone is interested in working with me. People in other cities and states should pursue this route as well.
Good luck.
READ THIS SENTENCE AGAIN! (and again...) (Score:4)
From the suck article:
"But the decisions are no less legally binding for being silly..."
This is why the article is right. This is what the point is: Being morally right, being technically correct, having half a clue; none of these things will overcome determination, money, big business, and organisation. In othwr words, You're not going to win just because you're right!"
This is the way the world works. Deal with it, or get dirty and change it--really change it--but don't bother ranting and vandalising web sites.
Geeks are not politically irrelevant for... (Score:2)
But then, any group of people in the modern day US who believe in freedom are politically irrelevant.
"Rejected"? What would Turner say? (Score:3)
Re:And Suck's predictions manifest themselves. (Score:2)
Bear in mind, that the lawyer, etc., are in the "real world". Internet activism is kinda useless, in the sense you are fighting in two different arenas.
One suggestion, which is an extension of what I have used for the efforts of promoting Linux is what amounts to grassroots activism. Actually leave your computer and go out and talk to people. Spread the facts. How many people out there believe they own their copy of Windows, and not just a license to use it? The point is, many people who vote, or have influence, really have no idea what is going on. But, as geeks, we have an enormous benefit - that people listen and respect what we say when it comes to technology. These people have checkbooks as well, as well as a vote. User groups, such as LUGs, can organize to spread information, have people sign petions, raise funds, etc. As you do this, you gain influence.
An example of this is a place I worked about 3 years ago. I basically installed and got their whole computer system up and running. The owner was in such awe of what I did. (Not saying I am good, but relative to him, I appeared to be a genius.) He actually asked my to speak at one of his Businessmens clubs meetings. Which gives me the opportunity to speak to many people, who actually come to listen to me, and what I have to say. Presenting them with facts of how these laws hurt their businesses, this gives them reason to help support what I am for. Whether it be getting them to switch to Linux for their servers, or getting them to write a $500 (tax deductible) to the EFF, with the hopes that no law will be passed that might say, allow monitoring of their email. These types of opportunities present themselves often to those who seek them out.
On another note - don't think lawyers are technically unsavvy. As I have mentioned before, my brother is an IT lawyer. He spends half his time in school learning electronics, coding, an other computer related technologies. The reason is obvious, the more he knows, the more he can win, and the higher his price tag becomes.
The reason I believe so firmly in this type of activism is it works. And well, and has for a long time, on many issues. I can rant and rave and post my ass off, but these don't change anything. Getting the truth out to those people who repect me, well, that helps a lot.
And this is different from slashdot? How? (Score:2)
Re:"Rejected"? What would Turner say? (Score:2)
The real world? (Score:3)
I know that's why I started dialing BBS's back in the 80's. You could find discussions that DIDN'T revolve around real world issues. I could talk to people about writing software or about how this new protocol called zmodem was the fastest transfer available. I mean, it wasn't cool to be a computer geek back then, but that's why we liked the 'net' (if you can call a bunch of 300-2400 baud modems a net).
I think a main problem with the net is that it has become way to chic, people seem to forget who and what was originally on it.
trb
Re:Fellow Travelers (Score:2)
Evil desperately doesn't want you to be aware of what is going on. Exactly who would I be looking for a flame from here? The clueless people with a broken algorithm for life? Does anyone believe they would flame me? If they don't believe what I have to say they would just dismiss me - rather than reply with a flame. Perhaps he thinks I was searching for flames from a psychopath.
I was a little surprised by the category of the moderation down. Flame bait is not sustainable, but I suppose it stands a better chance of staying there than -1 Off topic would have. I personally think you could have done a better job of fooling people with -1 Troll; you might have gotten people to believe -1 Troll. Except of course, you would have had the problem of trying to explain how I intended to say "Ha Ha, I fooled you." at the end of the troll.
Lets see, its not a Troll, its not Flame bait, its not Off topic, perhaps /. needs to come up with another -1 category:
-1 Unpleasant Truth that makes me question what I am doing in life.
Wow... (Score:2)
I'm nearly ready to join the omnifrog fan club, seeing as s/he got away with the remark that it seems the majority of "geeks" have no clue about how the world works.
Does anybody else here get sick of the constant adolescent whining about RIAA, Metallica, IP, "ageism" - there's a good one - and whatever else? And ah, yes.. Like several of the trolls enjoy pointing out, how much of a contrast it is to the zealous protection of the GPL. OH MY GOD!! THEY DIDN'T RELEASE THE SOURCE CODE!! Let's start an emailing campaign because we're ignorant of the fact that it is laughed off and too lazy to actually put pen to paper. (Online voting - "Some of us care a lot about politics. Really! But... We can't take ten minutes out of our day to go to a polling station and vote once every four years.")
Pft.
And while I'm whining on the topic of all this other whining, I'd like to ask that Slashdot adds a Napster catagory, so I and the others who feel likewise can filter out the crap.
--
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
If people send in the stories, we'll do our best to run them. That's what the YRO section was designed for. But it doesn't seem likely that the posting staff on slashdot will suddenly expand a hundredfold...
I didn't say it would be EASY. But it would be nice for the USERS of the site. Plus just think of all the regionally targetted advertising you could do! Larry's Pizza Parlor in Atlanta could throw banners all over the Georgia slashbox and voila! He's supporting the Georgia correspondat all by himself! >:)
I think tt's a good idea, but it might not be a PRACTICAL idea.>:)
Kintanon
Re:Shooting the messenger (Score:2)
I commend you for being so proactive - I personally would never spare the energy to write to a congressperson. It's not that I'm lazy (well, not totally) but because I know that it will do no good. Elected officials (most, anyways) only care about one thing: being re-elected. The fact that one or two people out of his or her district disagrees with the DMCA means nothing. So long as they promise to "restore dignigy" to their office, "cut taxes for those who really need it," and along the way smear the reputation of their opponent, they are going to get re-elected, which means another 4 or 6 years of not having to go to a job.
I agree with you, though. People in general do not do enough to make their causes known. I myself am guilty of this on multiple occasions. The difference is, I'm cynical and pessimistic enough to realize that it won't do me a bit of good to write to a congressperson (through E-mail, snail mail, or carrier pigeon) because I represent a very small portion of their voting constituency. "Please some of the people all of the time" and you will get elected; I guarantee.
On a side note: look at us now. What do we do? We post to Slashdot. We gripe to our co-workers. We refuse to take action. This is exactly what Salon was talking about, and I for one am disgusted at my own hypocracy (not enough to change, though)
------
Unless you can think of a way (Score:2)
to keep the real world out, I'd get used to it. I read a lot of Slashdot posts that boil down to "Why don't we just make the Internet back into what it was?" The answer is: We can't. Of the millions (billions?) of people on the internet, only a small fraction really care about anything beyond whether their e-mail and AIM work. Of that small fraction, at least half corporate types who lean towards the views of their company and paycheck. Of the half that are left a good number think that some real world influence on the net is positive (I happen to like being able to buy stuff online.) Since last I checked it is pretty much impossible to throw all of these people off the 'Net, we have to deal with the fact that the real world is now firmly entrenched and not leaving. We have to choices:
1) Absorb the good stuff and fight the bad stuff that is coming in. (Yes, that means we WILL lose some fights against the bad stuff, but life works that way.), or:
2) Stick our heads in the sand and loose everything while we hang out in ever more isolated enclaves that will eventually be destroyed.
People do not forget who and what was originally here, they don't care. We're like the indians being sent further and further west, except we don't even shoot back. (No, I am not talking about literal armed resistance.) Whining about how they are ruining our place isn't going to stop it from being ruined. We can't make things like they were (and I for one would not particuarlly want to) so we need to take a hand in how they will be.
Shooting the messenger (Score:5)
We do need a lesson... a lesson in putting on your game face and getting results. Bitching and moaning is going to get you ignored, or worse, targetted. Exactly as the suck article says, we need to play their game. Whether you like it or not, bite the bullet, face reality, and deal with it. The rest of the world deals with it every day, or at least the part that isn't having its freedoms stripped away...
Re:We can't lose (Score:2)
Filters won't work, you can encrypt in an infinite number of ways and throw away header so the stream isn't distinguishable from noise. Steganography then allows the noise to look like any normal traffic, to varying degrees of "normal".
If the bandwidth were capped, yes, that would slow communications down no matter what (legit and illicit). But it wouldn't stop communications cold, things could still get through. Then again, the US would never put an artificial bandwidth cap on the 'net, our economy is too reliant on it now.
Yes, new techs could be trained, but there are fundamental mathematical properties of encryption and steganography that requires O(c^n) time to figure out (for good forms of encryption) (even better for good forms of steganography? I dunno). So as long as the encryption-methods/keys/steganography-methods were kept secret, it would practically be impossible to find the transmissions, even for another geek/tech.
In terms of steganography, yes, it might turn into an arms race, but the cool thing about computer programs is that once a better one is written, it can be nearly instantly copied to everyone who needs it. So you might only be able to trade in illicit information 12 hours out of each day. But the trade would still go on.
Napster, Freenet, Gnutella, etc., etc., can all be stopped dead cold quite easily.
Yes, currently, they can be stopped fairly easily because they have easily recognizable headers. But wrappers could be written which encrypt/steganograph the stream on one side and decrypt/unsteganograph the stream on the other side so they couldn't be recognized to anyone who doesn't know the keys/encryption-method.
--
This almost makes me want to stop reading /. (Score:3)
I've returned to the U.S. for the first time in a year and I'm freaked out. Part of it, I suppose, is the craziness of election year. Part of it is genuine culture shock. I know living overseas that its boomtime for the economy and so on, but that didn't prepare me for how confused and despondent and cynical and unhappy everyone seems.
In the culture as a whole, all it seems there is to do is shop. The Net offered us freedom from that. But no longer. It's over. It's a big strip mall. We lost. When Britney Fucking Spears is singing about her email lover you know that ubiquity won out and what made us geeks special is lost forever. So we adapt or die. What we have to fight to preserve now are essential freedoms. It's the falling action, the final movement. At least some of us might get it together now. You know, for all the talk of Napster blah blah blah, this week was a real eye opener about another side to the whole fucking story. My friend's in a band in Seattle. Recently Paul Schell, the idiot who fucked up the WTO situation, vetoed a law approved 7:1 by the city council to change laws regarding all ages shows so that they would retain the protection and safety that club owners need while lifting age restrictions so that young people could take part in a culture, a scene, a lifestyle - something other than going to the fucking mall.
My friends in a band were playing the Bumbershoot festival and called up Paul Schell in front of 700 audience members and got everyone to let him know what his chances of getting their votes are. It was great. In one coordinated moment it was made clear Mr. Schell had lost 700 votes. Audience was instructed to meet with people passing out fliers to learn about more constructive ways they can help.
This was real action on a micro level that could extend out, was active, was real, had consequences and reality to it. Unlike the bitching and moaning us creative typists who clog bandwidth with our universally fleeting opinions that register for about a nanosecond in the constantly updating Net, where things are to be forgotten as soon as possible.
And this band, who have NOT sold out, who have refused corporate sponsorship and money and even deals that would extend creative autonomny with corporate money - just out of passion and experience with their culture of music - they will barely make the poverty line in income off of their album this year. Most of them work full time in a non profit center shipping anti violence pamphlets to schools to make a living. Despite being "successful", with albums sold across the US, sold out shows, and real media coverage. So how many of their tracks can I find on Napster? Plenty.
What I find distressing about the current geek climate is that there has been no change in our culture to reflect the changes in society and politics. What I find is a bizzare generation of mostly male zealots who believe themselves to be the front runners for a massive change in civilization, entirely conservative at their core in their political beliefs as far as it extends to protecting their ability to make money and save on taxes - yet when it comes to the "liberty" of being able to rip off some other culture for their own enjoyment and because they can, the greed comes out in spades.
Seeing what I did in Seattle this week taught me that. We're completely adrift and need to wake up and change what's important and agree on major things as a whole, determine what's really fucking important instead of whining forever and forever until we are treated like a grown up AV club.
It's all about intensity .... (Score:3)
(1) The people who post in discussion fora such as these are a distinctly *different* group than the average web user. We (mostly) work on computers, and (again mostly) view the net as an essential part of our day-to-day lives. The average web user, however, is just looking for (a) information about some specific topic; (b) entertainment; (c) the ability to purchase things online rather than in a store. These people *don't care* about the theoretical arguments we're involved in. They don't understand the technical arguments, and they fail to see why the same rules that apply to the people already providing what they want from the net shouldn't apply to people on the net as well.
(b) Effective political action depends on the confluence of *three* things: the number of people who care about an issue, the intensity with which they care, and the amount of money they have to throw at the issue. The 'online community' is having problems with all three of those.
Take, for example, the deCSS case. The number of people who actually care *in either direction* is fairly small; most people outside of the two industries involved haven't even heard of it. For all that some advocates of free computing are really passionate about this issue, *in general*, the intensity with which the MPAA cares is much higher --- in their viewpoint, it's literally a life-or-death fight. Partly as a result of the lack of intensity, the MPAA is able to throw more money at the problem than the geeks are; it is almost inevitably going to win.
The same balance of forces exists in almost every part of the law where geeks are currently losing: the number of people who care is small, the other side cares more intensely, and the other side can throw more money at the problem.
In order to fix this *at the political level* (because the politicians can change the law, this is where the battle really needs to take place), at least two of those three need to change. But that's a difficult proposition *until the law accidentally steps on the toes of non-geeks*, for reasons explained under (1) above.
I think that eventually that will happen: the courts will issue a ruling which accidentally broadens the number of people who care and deepens the intensity with which they care. But *until* that happens, I doubt there's anything that can be done which will actually be effective in reshaping the law in ways that make more sense from the point of view of the technology crowd.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
Cyberselfish, anyone? (Score:4)
Now we're learning that big business isn't the nerd's friend any more than big government is; and the difference is that it's actually possible to get big government to be on your side through the democratic/lobbying/activism process, where big business will always only be on the side of profit, which may or may not be in the nerds' best interest.
And it's always a good bet that small government (i.e. local, or all those other downtrodden minorities) can be on the nerd's side if a little activism takes place.
So support the EFF and ACLU, and build coalitions with other activists, as is starting to happen at the coalition demonstrations like those in Seattle, Philly, and LA. Prague's coming up!
Note that the demonstrations, while valuable and important, are less effective than lobbying and working with the system, especially since we're talking about national law-making, not local problems (like police violence) or global problems (like the World Bank), though there are plently of local and global considerations.
Re:Fellow Travelers (Score:2)
It is so much easier to patch up the GUI so that it looks good than it is to fix the algorithmic problem at the heart of the program.
I should have anticipated the responses:
Majority response: "That can't be right - the world can't work that way. If it did I'd have to rethink my entire life. That would mean that all the people who came before us got fooled also. What horrible things to say - He must be crazy - I'd better go on to the next post."
Second most common response: "I don't want to hear that LA LA LA LA LA LA"
Third most common response "Look, you just don't get the way the world works. Everything is OK, all algorithms have bugs, that is just life, we work around it by ... Well I don't know how we work around it, but its not a problem. I'm sure somebody took care of it."
Fourth most common response: "What's an algorithm?"
Years ago I figured out that trying to change the world won't work because the world doesn't want to change. As Eric Hoffer pointed out: "Given freedom of choice, most people choose to be like everyone else."
I guess Ignorance truly IS bliss.
--
Move along, nothing to see here: just some old man talking to himself.
Re:Know Your Enemy (Score:2)
Re:"Underfunded EFF" (Score:2)
I don't read it that way. "Swimming in cash" maybe the geek community isn't, but most programmers I know are overpaid for the difficulty of the work they do, and comfortably upper middle class. (No flames, please; I include myself in that category)
The problem, I suspect, is more of a cultural one: the vaguely libertarian culture that has grown up around the computer industry (or maybe I should say in which the industry has grown) *discourages* donations --- people think they earned their money and have no responsibility to a larger community, so why should they give away what they have earned?
It's *incredibly* frustrating.
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:4)
OK, this will have zero effect. Why? Because slashdot people don't vote. And when they do vote, they vote for third parties that have no chance of winning. And when they do vote for major party candidates, it is based on abortion, or human rights in Uzbekistan, etc. Or more likely, who the media told them is the 'hip' candidate.
Slashdot people also refuse to volunteer in campaigns. They also refuse to help local candidates in local elections. They love watching, and writing about, the media COVERAGE of politics, but have no interest in the political process.
The chickens are coming home to roost. Support third parties; don't vote; don't get involved and volunteer; don't write even a simple letter your congressman; ignore local elections. Oops! No wonder political leaders don't listen to you. YOU HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING TO THEM YET. You've told the Slashdot moderators a lot. But in terms of actual opinions stated, backed by the willingness to work, you've done ZERO. Note that I haven't talked money yet. Donating money is great, but peanuts compared to actual involvement.
Do you think hiring a PAC will make a difference? PACs are important because they represent voters-- individually, their contribution limits prevent any one PAC from being too influential. Politicians have learned the hard way that Slashdot people don't vote for them, no matter how hard they try to court them.
I'm sorry. I am not accustomed to flaming all of Slashdot, but you all win this year's oscar for unfounded bitching. I have been involved in politics for three years, half of which were spent volunteering on and off. I've never worked with or joined a special interest group (unless /. counts as a special interest) and I have never given a dime of money-- just time and work.
I know lobbyists, politicians, campaign operatives, Very Important People, and congressional staffers. I can guarantee you that in my three years I have seen exactly one slashdot regular. ONE. He's doing his part. I'm doing mine. Are you doing yours?
I have worked ceaselessly to promote issues important to us. And while I've made some tiny progress, I am alone. The EFF, which is our PAC, is alone. The labor unions can rally millions of voters to the polls. They gave Ralph Nader a shred of a chance, then took it away. How? With votes-- the basic unit of political influence.
Every plan for an Association will fail based on the critical insight that Slashdot people won't Associate. They might put some money, but they certainly won't vote based on these issues. Except possibly for President-- one vote in four years isn't too much to ask for. But then again, most civil libertarians are voting for Harry Browne, so why would the major party candidates care?
I guess I'm mad because I've put the last few years of my life and some damn hard work into politics. I have gotten real, measurable results. And the rest of you, instead of helping, complain ceaselessly on slashdot about stuff that you get DEAD WRONG, and wonder why things don't go your way. If you can't participate, personally, in the process, then don't complain that it doesn't go your way. Democracy's great strength is feature, but it is also a user requirement.
I have suggested that people read Heinlein's Take Back Your Government . Someone once called me naive for thinking that that is how things work in the Real World. As a registered member of the Real World, I can assure you that I have personal experience that Heinlein is right, rather than the experience of watching pundit shows on TV.
Democracy is participated in, not purchased. It isn't what people who sell advertisements to fund their news shows say, but it is true.
Re:Someone beat this guy with a clue stick (Score:2)
Oh, and, "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodoss!"
History is on your side, of course, no third party has ever had an effect on the American system. That's why we have to put up with the South and their "peculiar institution" of slavery to this very day.
I wish you Whigs good luck in the general election, as for me, I'll continue to vote Libertarian.
~moron~
NEVER VOTE FOR SLIME (Score:4)
Frankly, you're full of it.
I vote. I vote for third party candidates. So what if they "don't have a chance of winning"? This is an election, not a horse race. The two major candidates are, IMHO, slime. Why vote for one or the other? That's what they want you to do.
If I vote for a third-party candidate, and one of the big two win, I get a slime officer. If I vote for one of the big two, and he or she wins, I get a slime officer; same difference. If one slimer needs one more vote to win, I stop him whether I vote for the other slimer or the third party candidate. You don't need more votes than anybody else, you need over 50% of the vote, period.
But if enough votes go to third party candidates, then a couple of things can happen. First, the slimers can see the lost votes and try to get us back. Secondly, if they fail, other voters see the third parties, believe they can make a difference, vote them in, and you get third-party officers. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Democrats and republicans want you to believe that they are the only choices. Since they're both slime, that causes apathy, and an apathetic population is easier to control. Prove them wrong at the ballot box. It may take several elections, but it will work.
Re:Wow. I rule. Neat. (Score:2)
Re:Democracy? (Score:2)
*snort* (Score:2)
You think pursuing a technical field in college is a way to make people more politically savvy?
You're joking, right?
Look, in technical majors and at technical schools, voter registration is abysmal. Here (Cambridge, MA), the voter rolls are posted outside publically so you can see who at which address is registered; back at MIT, I discovered that of my dorm 90~ people, all of 6 of us had registered to vote locally. And two of those were the housemaster and housemistress. Clearly one can't be sure how many people were sending absentee ballots back home, but considering that MIT was losing a battle with the City of Camb. ("Hey, where did all the on-street parking go?") because no one who cared about MIT was registered to vote locally, I'm none to impressed with absentee voting.
Frankly, sheltering in the desmesne of the Ivory Tower isn't particularly likely to inspire geeks to take a political interest in the real world. The only thing that makes the likes of us interested in politics is a vested interest: when they bite us where it hurts, then we care.
----------------------------------------------
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:2)
I love to post and I think I play the game of armchair diplomat or philosopher as well as most can. Its an enjoyable game indeed. I have read the works of Thoreau and secretly wish that I had the guts to stop paying taxes and allow them to cart me off to jail....secure in the knowledge that I am right and that matters most of all.
However, we must be realistic. The people don't care about freedom, and NEVER HAVE. Look at the history of my own state. Look at Boston.
Did the people care much for British rule? Are we truely better off on our own than under the British Monarchy? People talk of the "boston tea party" what was it? A bunch of men that Sam Adams got liquered up and convinced to dress up as indians and throw tea off a ship.
IF it wasn't for the fact that the tax was taking money from people, the philosophers would have been standing alone, there would have been no revolution. The people don't want freedom, they want comfort, they want the illusion of safety. They want to NOT have to think about all the big issues themselves.
It reminds me of Jack Nicholson's quote from Easy Rider "but don't ever tell them that they arn't free, or else they will get about to killing and maiming and whatever they have to just to show you how free they are" (anyone have the exact quote? its been a while since I saw the movie)
Form is more important than function. The masses are more happy with a comfortable and semi-believable fiction than with an honest yet uncomfortable truth.
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:5)
Re:US leads and the world follows (Score:3)
A perfect example would be if the Aus government wanted to make an example of a hacker/cracker. Just charge her with not running censorware, downloading objectionable material, or whatever the law provides for, and give her the maximum sentence, even if whatever she might have actually done to annoy authorities would be hard to get a conviction for.
Laws are instruments of control, and unnecessary laws are dangerous. They can sit on the books for years until the wrong person gets into a position to abuse them.
Re:It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:2)
I don't agree with most of the republican philosophy, but I am at least one liberal/progressive geek who recognizes the work Orin Hatch has done. I was pleasantly surprised how clueful he was in the hearing on the Future of Digital Music, and I even typed up a long letter thanking him, and others there for their open minds. Unfortunately I got buried under a pile of work and that thank-you never got out. But know there is at least one of us out here whose mind is open, but not so much that his brains fall out.
Re:Ellian vs DeCss (Score:2)
James Madison in Federalist #10 makes this case far better than I could- it is deeply important, because there haven't been any examples of pure majority-dominated democracy that worked worth a damn, and our founding fathers _knew_ that when they made the rules and wrote all these things that have colored how American government works.
If our government is truly failing at this it will be destroyed. There is no way to blindly stomp all the little factions and get away with it- you end up with bloody revolution, and sooner rather than later. To survive as a country we NEED to be listening to those South Florida Cubans, to the computer geekocracy, to all the little factions. That doesn't mean there will be a clear answer- when the clear answer disenfranchises lots of different groups of Americans, you need to quit looking for a clear answer and go for a muddier answer that's more flexible and adaptable.
Suck doesn't get it (Score:2)
We've all heard the anecdotes. "International borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." "The 'Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." Well, these things are actually true. Suck doesn't see it.
Napster might be pummeled into submission by the US legal system. Will this have much impact on the trading of copyrighted material by individuals? Hell no! They are switching to peer-to-peer systems. The draconian laws of Prohibition have little effect on the consumption of cannabis in this country. Stiff anti-piracy measures will be even less effective; you will never see ninja cops busting down people's doors at 3am to sieze someone's MP3 server. We've all seen how much success the Federal Courts have had at supressing DeCSS. They are shouting but most people on the net are ignoring them. Ostracism is the ultimate punishment on the 'Net.
The fact is that cryptography enables people to communicate secretly, without even knowing whom they are communicating with (but they are assured they are communicating with the same trustworthy folks they have dealt with in the past). Networks are international. Entities offering services will use "Regualatory Arbitrage," to keep the data flowing to people everywhere. Crypto hides the content, and obscures who is speaking to whom.
The 'Net will create it's own currency. By keeping things on the Net, people will avoid the hassles of credit card paper trails banking regulations when buying services on the Net. This is already happening, check out Mojo Nation [mojonation.net] which is creating a currency backed in CPU, disk space, and bandwidth.
Burris
Someone beat this guy with a clue stick (Score:5)
You, sir, are a complete dumbass.
Are you so disillusioned with third parties that you feel the Republicans and Democrats are the only choices out there? It's not like I can't vote for Nader, Browne, Buchanan, or anyone else, right? To insinuate that voting for a third party is a wasted vote is pure arrogance on your behalf. Yes, Nader, Browne, and Buchanan don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the election. That doesn't mean that we can't stick it to the Big Two with a vote for a third party candidate, which says "We're sick of politics as usual, if you don't want to listen to us, we'll find a candidate who will." Eventually, the Big Two will look behind them, and see just how close those third parties are catching up. It's not going to happen today, tomorrow, next week, or even next year, but it will happen.
The elections aren't like a horse race. I'm not going to vote for Joe Candidate just because I think he'll win, I'm going to vote for Joe Candidate based on the issues. Take a look at Minnesota. Dear God, some third party professional wrestler is the governor over there! Those idiots who voted for him wasted their votes! They should've voted Republican or Democrat! Hmmmm, I guess those people voted on the issues. I know, I know...to you, it's a new concept, but it's a cool concept! You can say that Jesse Ventura got elected just because of his past with Hollywood and the WWF, but something lit a fire underneath the collective asses of Minnesota voters that got them to say "Go Ventura!" Say what you will about the guy, but he is an effective politician who's getting the job done, and he's not afraid to speak his mind on anything. Oh oh, wait...Reform Party...third party...wasted vote.
You think that voting for a third party is a wasted vote? Here's a wasted vote: voting for someone "just because." And I have a feeling that's how you vote.
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Re:"Underfunded EFF" (Score:3)
I agree with the original poster, though. I meant to join the EFF when I got out of college and I forgot to do so. Well, at least I can rectify that right now.
Hey, who knows? Maybe we can start a new chic on the 'net -- the next time some c*cksucker starts jawin' about his income, say "I gave $1k to the EFF last year."
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It's still a democracy.....use it! (Score:5)
That out of the way, the solution is painfully obvious, yet might be difficult.
Organize an association of Internet users and like minded people. Call yourselves "Internet users of America" or something along those lines. Gather ACTUAL names and addresses, attract new members, vote on a platform, elect a leader...then LOBBY!!!!
Easier said than done is the big problem. You might be able to start with Slashdot and K5 active members, then expand to other web based gathering sites. The EGO thing will also be hard to overcome, but if someone credible, and a name you all recognize starts it, and at least gets a buy in from editors, it might actually work.
How can you fight the "Motion Picture ASSOCIATION of America" and the "Recording Industry ASSOCIATION of America" with being an asociation or special interest group yourself?
The article on Suck had some very good points, defacing a web page for kicks is not going to accomplish ANYTHING except irritate John Q. Public.
Not to belittle the monumental hurtles and battles of the African Americans in the last century, but if all Martin Luther King did was spray paint graffiti on a few walls, would anything have been accomplished?
For simplicitys sake, and to avoid fractures, start here, start on
Consider this a CALL TO ACTION for someone (for legal purposes...someone of voting age) to carry the torch and start something, hell.....even Jon Katz could do this. You may not like what he has to say, but he has credibility in the real world. and in an association he HAS to listen to the active voting members.
Like it or not, this is quickly becoming a battle of the most organized, not the most technical.
Makes me think about yesterday's discussion (Score:5)
The one [slashdot.org] about young men skipping college to go into techie jobs. Not that a broader education is necessarily a cure for tunnelvision, but perhaps if more geeks had studied history, political science, economics, etc., there would be a greater number of technical folks able to do more than flame.
One important question is how to bring some of this "News for Nerds" to the attention of the masses, in a way that they can understand. The vast majority of people are not technically savvy, yet making them understand that their rights are being eroded is essential to stopping and even reversing these dangerous and often ill-considered rulings.
--meredith
--meredith
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:3)
Oh i'm sorry I forgot when the lawyers stand up there and argue their cases that that isn't what they really believe... my mistake.
Napster does piss me off a bit too but i'm not really bothered by the copyright issues and couldn't give a flying f**K if napster go out of business - I do care about the issue that service providers and software engineers can be held liable for what their product is used for.
DeCSS is a particularly good example since the work to complete it was done in norway - which should be out of the reach of greedy american lawyers... wrong again.
And then there's the mdma anti-proliferation bill in the us - trying to make it illegal to spread information about ecstasy. It's not about drugs it's about control, and yet the media aren't having a big outcry about free speech because this government mock war on drugs is more important.
As for the RIP act in my own country. I'm nothing short of appalled. I've written to my member of parliament but to no avail - didn't even acknowledge me. The problem is of course that one individual or even 50 individuals make no difference. If the entire UK readership of
The lesson we need to learn is that we should stand up and make ourselves and our opinions known.
Re:Shooting the messenger (Score:3)
Volunteering is a good idea, but if a politician has a choice between one volunteer's opinion and even a $50K campaign contribution, you've got one guess as to how that politico will vote.
You want freedom in cyberspace? Organizing is only the first step. You, me, and a shitload of us had better be ready to sign checks to fuel our own PAC which will represent our interests, and enable us to buy elected officials and high-priced lobbyists just like the scumbags that funded the DMCA did. Our money is just as good as that of Seagrams and Sony. We can spend it to defend ourselves or watch what we've worked for disappear into a mass of corporate sludge. DMCA happened because we let it happen.
Certainly, we need new judges with a clue about how technology works. A good judge can make a hell of a difference. Like the judges who tanked CDA and Son of CDA. They took the trouble to learn cyberspace and actually knew the Constitiution. Why don't we have more judges like that? Federal judges are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Because Clinton and his GOP predecessors don't WANT that kind of Federal judge, they only get appointed by accident. You want better judges? Buy some Federal elected officials.
It's a free market, and the best organized and funded win. We have the tools and collectively, we've got the bucks to reshape the political process in any manner that amuses us. Unlike the corporate opposition, we understand the tools, so we should make better use of them.
Is freedom worth cashing in a chunk of your post-IPO options for? Is freedom worth putting off that hot tub for? Is freedom worth taking a chunk out of of your way-above average IT salary and contributing it to a political action group?
If you're a student or otherwise low on cash, are you willing to volunteer for political campaigns and to help out pro-freedom cybergroups.
If your answer is no, stop whining and soon, the Internet of a hundred thousand shopping malls in which your opinion will be given to you by the traditional mass media via streaming full screen video that our elected officials, mass media, and corporations want to see will be your future. You will deserve it.
Have you joined the EFF (Score:5)
constructive action (Score:3)
Well one way of getting people in "power" to do what you want is to write protest letters. Stupid right? What happens when a politician gets 500 pounds of mail telling him he sucks? Now imagine organizing a dedicated effort that tracks down ALL IPs and email addresses that politicians use and buries them under personal complaints, thereby cutting off the politicians access to the web untill he does something constructive.
Well maybe it would be too hard to explain the technical aspects of this correctly. The key is to make it impossible for the politician to do business(web or real life) until he deals with the collective concerns of everyone who knows how to click a mouse button. Clicking a button should cause them much grief! Empower us oh technical people!
One other alternative is that we take the water away from the sharks. We don't use them to make decisions for us. This would require WANTING to do this.
We could also teach ourselves to never use information from mass information outlets.
This would require realizing that if we want to get "the best" we don't have to go to ONE place in the WORLD, we just have to go someplace "LOCAL"
(geographically or otherwise)
In any case util you AND your associates are AFFECTED and MOTIVATED to do something and actually DO something, then you don't have the right to an OPINION (much less the right of complaining). If you can't make yourself or your friends do something then why are you talking about it at all?
The first step is cuting taxes. And the zeroth step is raising taxes to educate kids so they will know to cut taxes
Re:Organize, Part II (Score:3)
excuse me waiter, could i have a reality cheque please?
thanks...
Re:Who really needs a lesson (Score:3)
When we achieve our rightful place as rulers of the world, we will seek out people who don't agree with those values, and put them in re-education camps until they become Geekishly Correct.
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