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It's funny. Laugh. Books Media Book Reviews

Catch Me If You Can 131

Posted by timothy from the 1992-2000-whereabouts-unknown dept.
Reader stern contributed this review of Catch Me If You Can, Frank Abagnale's story of creative identity hacking on a level that makes Kevin Mitnick's look more like a Groucho mustache. Don't try this stuff at home ... or in the cockpit, or the operating room, please.

Catch Me If You can
author Frank. W. Abagnale with Stan Redding
pages 277
publisher Broadway Books
rating 7/10
reviewer stern
ISBN 0-7679-0538-5
summary Captivating tale of a young, creative criminal, defrauding banks and airlines in the 1970s.

*

It has been said that success depends on three things: skill, luck, and timing. Had Bill Gates been born six hundred years ago, he'd be assistant shit-shoveler for the Duke of Silesia. Conversely, Charlemagne, if born today, would probably be an auto mechanic. Sometimes you read about somebody whose skills were so remarkably out of place that you marvel at the thought of what they could have accomplished if they had only been born in a different time and place. Charles Babbage was born 100 years too soon. John Law, given the chance, would have ruled Wall Street.

Catch Me If You Can is the apparently true story of a man named Frank Abagnale. In the mid-1970s, when still a teenager, he ran away from home and supported himself by forging checks. To call him a forger, however, is to call Frank Lloyd Wright a guy who builds houses -- a simplification that does injustice to his tremendous skills. Abagnale developed fully documented alternate identities, including that of a Pan Am pilot, a pediatrician, a public prosecutor, and a college sociology professor. In each case, he was able to forge authenticating documents, and in many cases, he was able to procure the actual certificates, passcards, uniforms, and other accountrements of the trade. He was so convincing that, when accused by airport officials of being a fake pilot, other pilots (some of whom had known him for years) rose to defend him!

Under these guises (but especially in his role as airline pilot), Abagnale forged millions of dollars in checks, and defrauded banks around the world. He was able to avoid capture in part because his persona was very convincing, but also because he revolutionalized the art of check-kiting, printing false routing information on the bottom of each check that would send them circling the United States for days or weeks before a human intercepted them and determined that they were fake. Also, as a 'pilot', he was able to ride for free around the United States, Europe, and Asia, spreading his fake checks over a huge number of different banks in different cities. This made him much harder to catch.

Why is this book appropriate for Slashdot readers? You can take it as a lesson in hacking for somebody who was never given the chance to use a computer. Abagnale hacked the banking system; he hacked airline industry procedures. He even hacked the Swedish penal system. He found and exploited fault modes that normal users had never noticed. You can also take the book as a primer in social engineering. Abagnale would never have been able to get away with his hacks, especially the early ones, if he had not understood how to charm a bank teller. In fact, his choice of airline pilot as his first alternate identity was driven in part by the realization that female bank tellers would swoon for a man in the pilot's uniform.

What's Bad?

As in any book by a rogue and con man, there is no way that 100% of this book is true, and you're never really sure when you are reading an anecdote that was made up. You will probably find yourself reading each chapter while sniffing for B.S. Personally, I found two episodes particularly suspect -- his pretending to be a stock broker (his grasp of the terminology was much to weak to fool anybody really in the financial markets), and his claim to have fooled eight college girls into travelling around Europe with him for a Summer, thinking they were working for Pan Am.

The most convincing stories were those in which he makes an error -- other people caught him making mistakes so subtle that an outsider would probably never have made them up. For example, airline pilots catching him in an error about which carriers served which cities, or a Harvard Law graduate catching him in an error about the professors with which he had studied.

What's Good?

I have no doubt that, had he been born in a slightly different environment, Abagnale would have been a fiersome computer hacker (in the positive or negative sense). His model is a valuable one, even if he used his creative skills to evil ends. Most people take for granted that barcodes are magic, that passcards separate real employees from the masses, and that anybody with the right jargon and the right clothing is in the right place. In some sense, we run our society (certainly our schools and businesses) like the insect hives that fiercely resist any outsider. Once the invader gets inside, it's treated like a member of the family. Read correctly, Abagnale's story can be both an inspiration and a warning. It inspires the reader to find the weaknesses in the systems around him, and it warns us to beware of our natural instinct to trust people who seem like us. Sometimes they're faking, and sometimes they do not have our best interests at heart.

By the way, Abagnale was eventually caught and served time for his crimes, but ended up running a secure-documents company in Washington, DC, and teaching courses on financial fraud for the FBI.

Stern is the president of Information Markets Corp.

You can purchase this book at ThinkGeek.
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Catch Me If You Can More

Catch Me If You Can

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  • I read an earlier release of this book at least ten years ago and I do not recall anything about a stock
    broker or traveling with college coeds. My memory may just be failing me, but I think him traveling
    with a bunch of college coeds would have made an impact on my imaginiation as I was a teenager
    at the time.

    The most remarkable scam I remember from the book would probably still work today.
    He dressed as a security guard and took night deposits at a remote branch stating that
    the atm or drop box was on the fritz. Enough people trusted him that he got at least
    a few hundred dollars.

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:3)

    by Robotech_Master ( 14247 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @07:21AM (#588396) Homepage Journal
    "Current" trend?

    Ever read any Robin Hood?

    For that matter, crime is an accepted fundamental part of our life--or at least our history. You're taught about it in school, how a bunch of terrorist revolutionaries seceded from their mother country over political issues. The Civil War? Heck no, the Revolutionary one.

    Besides, it's a matter of degree. I don't think anybody would be lauding a book by a mass murderer, but this is a book about a clever fellow, the dashing rapscallion who never committed a violent crime. That's a very popular heroic archetype in our culture, going all the way back to the aforementioned Robin Hood, continuing with works like The Scarlet Pimpernel, Raffles, Arsene Lupin [themestream.com], Harry Harrison's The Stainless Steel Rat, and so on.

    Heck, go all the way back to ancient Greek mythology and you'll find plenty of tales of clever tricksters who won the day through their trickery. Odysseus was a favorite character of this type. (Such cleverness was even more valued among the ancient Greeks than it is today, according to my Greek ancient history teacher. He said that as a coming-of-age ritual, a Greek lad was required to steal one of his neighbor's sheep.)

    And when you think about it, even Jesus and his Apostles were regarded as dangerous revolutionaries by the authorities of their day. Paul once had to escape a city in a manner worthy of a thief, being lowered over the city walls in a basket.
    --

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:3)

    by Farq Fenderson ( 135583 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:50AM (#588397) Homepage
    Crime is important.

    What would you do if the law said you have to die? Would you let them kill you because it's the law?

    Just because it's the law doesn't make it right.

    Break The Law [ct2600.org]. I wrote this in 1998... maybe it will help you understand.

    ---
  • If it's anything like "The Pretender", I just might start reading books again.

    The last books that really held my attention where I read them start to finish was The Fugitive Game and The Watchman. I love those kind of books since they read like an adventure.
  • Interesting; that works very well in my experience for things such as getting into that trendy club, or crashing into parties.

    --

  • Other great examples of impostors (Score:5)

    by Moorlock ( 128824 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @07:26AM (#588400) Homepage
    Check out this page [syntac.net] if you want to read more about impostors like Abignale, such as:
    • Stephen Weinberg, who posed as the U.S. Consul Delegate to Morocco, as a Serbian militia attaché, an American navy lieutenant, the envoy of the Queen of Romania, an army air corps lieutenant, a doctor (on several occasions), as head of protocol for the U.S. State Department, and (after serving some time for these put-ons) as an expert on prisons.
    • George DuPre, who got his amazing story of being an intrepid World War II spy published by Readers Digest and by Random House books before he was discovered to be a phony.
    • Ferdinand Waldo Demara, Jr., whose life was the basis for the movie The Great Impostor. He was a few doctors as well, and the assistant warden of a prison, and a surgeon in the Royal Canadian Navy, a schoolteacher, a college dean, and who knows what else. He is legendary for his ability to perform admirably whatever he was doing with whatever credentials he had assimilated.
    • Steven Jay Russell who has taken the legal system for a ride by impersonating a judge, a lawyer and a doctor to talk his way out of custody. His trademark is to escape on Friday the 13th.
    • William Voigt gets bonus points for putting on the uniform of a Prussian military officer in 1906 and using this ruse to gain the allegiance of a pack of soldiers, then raiding the treasury of Köpenick on the pretense of investigating tax irregularities.

    ---
  • Oh yeah, well I'm a Native American, and a Vietnam Veteran! How dare you be so insensitive and mention the catholic church?

    I must have missed the memo that Kahuna Burger means "female bi atheist". My bad. Speaking of old eductational movies, the School House Rocks series are the best.

    Oh yeah, anything that I didn't save the article and quote exact stats on is an urban legend. Real mature.
    I just like reading that again for fun. *smirk* Nicely said.

    Ciao.
  • I just cruised over to my local libraries webpages and requested it; i'll pick it up next week :-)
  • Any attempt to get rid of crime WILL fail. Crime IS a fundamental part of life. Anyone who says differently has a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. I think Mark Twain would back this up if he were still around.

    Also, as per other points in this thread, crime isn't always immoral and is definitly not boring. Most people don't care about right and wrong when reading a novel, there care about entertainment value.

    Oh, and in response to your second paragraph, that's one of those little things called "Freedom of Speech". To badly mangle a great quote from The American President: True freedom exists when people are willing to spend a lifetime defending the right to speak of that which they would spend a lifetime fighting against.

    Justin Dubs
  • There was a movie, long ago, starring Tony Curtis called the Great Prestender that had a plot along the same lines. Anyone know if the movie was based on this book? Kind of wierd detail that sticks in the mind worth little or nothing :)
  • The American Revolution was illegal.

    (I submitted the above to ThinkGeek as a t-shirt suggestion.)

  • The sad thing about Springer (vs the WWF, where you know it's fiction) is that the portrayal of the people is that "this is real life" (and I assume that for some people it is).

    It's just very sad, whether the stories are true or not, that so many people want to go on it. What's even sadder is the number of people that want to watch.

  • a) trend's not current
    b) life's not fair
    c) free speech! free speech!

    -beme

  • or crashing into parties.

    As Shakesphere wrote brilliantly in Romeo and Juliet. Romeo and friends snuck into a party, and very few people noticed. Those that did said "Well, the enemy is here, but we will just watch them as long as they are not doing anything bad."

  • Most Brokers don't know the terms. (Score:3)

    by doublem ( 118724 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @08:47AM (#588410) Homepage Journal

    The company I work for provides Continuing Education to Securities and Insurance Brokers, and as the MIS director, I get to review the exams at my leisure. You wouldn't believe how many of these bozos don't know basic terms like Money Laundering and Annuity. It genuinely frightens me that these people are trading stocks and selling Insurance.

    The course people fail the most: Ethics

    The main reason Online CE is growing so fast in the Securities and Insurance Industries is because online exams can be taken until you pass, as opposed to paper exams that you take and retake, usually paying extra fees for each retake. It's amazing how many of these morons retake the exams five or six times before passing, and they're multiple choice exams with only four options per question!

    One of our competitors (SEII) is even worse. You aren't allowed to move on to the next question until you've gotten the current question right.

    "I'm sorry, 'A' is not the correct answer, try again"

    "I'm sorry, 'B' is not the correct answer, try again"

    "I'm sorry, 'C' is not the correct answer, try again"

    "'D' is Correct! click the button to move on to question 5"

    In short, I wouldn't doubt the character's authenticity as a broker just because he didn't know the terms. About 10% of those clowns know what's going on, the rest are the Business World Equivalent of AOL users.

    http://www.matthewmiller.net [matthewmiller.net]

  • Fantastic book. Amazing book. An inspiration to all. However...., I first heard of Mr. Abagnale when a friend of mine suggested I grab a rather huge mp3 from his FTP site. It turns out that his father had gone to see Frank Abagnale at a big speaking engagement and had recorded the whole thing with a dictaphone. So moved by Abagnales words was he that several years after the fact he had his son, (my friend) convert it to mp3 before the tapes were lost. The mp3 was enthralling. As soon as I'd heard it I knew I had to read the complete story myself. This is where it became a little disappointing - between the mp3 I'd heard of Frank Abagnale at a speaking engagement and the story of his misadventures, there were a great number of discrepancies leaving one to wonder, in which version of his story was he more forthright & truthfull? I dunno... -"On the note that I just wrote, stay afloat on the reality boat". -TCQ
  • ... reminds me of Stainless Steel Rat of our time ;-)

    Another hero from non-science fiction is Ostap Bender from two books ("12 Chairs" and "The Golden Calf") published in Russia in the beginning of 1930-s.

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why the fuck DO you litter and speed? The first is antisocial in the extreme and the second can be deadly (it always pisses me off that characters in films who drive to the speed limit are portrayed as wankers). My sister was killed by a speeding driver at the age of 7. He'd have had time to stop if he hadn't been doing 10k/h above the speed limit.

    Actually, the above is a lie, written to make you think about whether you'd reply/flame this comment differently if you thought it was true.

    BTW, what's jaywalking for us non-Yanks?
  • So where can I get a copy of the MP3?

  • I think you've just hit upon the ideal setting for Blackadder 5. I can just imagine Hugh Laurie as quasi-Bill Gates, bungling his Blackadder-coached anti-trust deposition before Justice Department officials. "Oh, no, I didn't write that, the computer did!"

    Schwab

  • The stupid part, Kahuna, is the idea that some computer virus built by a kid would end up wrecking a hospital system and killing someone. The ILOVEYOU virus last year caused all kinds of damage, but didn't result in any deaths. Kids know that actions have repurcussions. It is fine to teach kids that some activities are dangerous, but how about some truly dangerous topics like unprotected sex, drinking and driving, armed robbery, or walking into class with shotguns and killing everyone. Why waste funds on trying to protect corporate computers, when kids are killing each other? What you wrote sounds like an urban legend, Last year or so, I read an item about a kid who might go to jail for stealing a traffic sign. It was a stop sign and an out of towner got killed going through the intersection. Involuntary manslaughter. I also heard a story last year. It was about a kid getting killed from drinking soda and eating pop rocks. I think we should warn kids about the consequences of mixing hacking and pop rocks. Or was it drinking soda and stealing road signs? I forget, but thank you Father Kahuna for your moral views. Jesus is coming, look busy.

  • Better yet, Chevy Chase in Fletch [imdb.com] (1985). He plays a reporter that specializes in changing identies and such.

    Another good site (more about the movie than just facts, ala IMDB, is here [room34.com].


    --
    Turn on, log in, burn out...
  • > One recurring theme in the book is one that any
    > Social Engineer learns early on: Act like you're
    > supposed to be there/doing that.

    Or as a friend once observed regarding a colleague who had a knack for getting promotions based soley on his ability to B-S: "Act like you own the place and someone may just hand you the keys."
  • That's John Brunner's Shockwave Rider . All the way down to the 'special school'.

  • It's very difficult not to idolize this man, I mean who pays a prositute with a check?? I hope she's reading this article.

    There is something about reading a story of forgery, robbery and mistery. I don't think it's a glorification of the actual crime that makes me grin from ear to ear, it's more about the imagination it took to pull off these crimes. It's absolutely genius!!

    Maybe this is way I love the movie Heat and all the Bond Movies.

  • He's still writing SSR books ! The Stainless Steel Rat Joins the Circus [barnesandnoble.com] came out in September.
  • By example the third or fourth leading cause of death in America is apparently, if you believe the news in the last 6 months, medical malpractice and incompetance. And these are the people ostensibly trained to perform these jobs

    i'd believe that... but take into consideration most perfectly healthy people don't book themselves in for major surgery for no reason. so the reality is most of these would have been on the edge anyhow, and an "error" on the part of the doctor pushed the patient over. Also consider the human body isn't a machine made of steel, it is organic - there is simply no way to accurately predict the effects of any given action in every case, so unless the doctor in question screwed up something obvious, it's not his/her fault, it's simply the unpredictability of organic things.

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:3)

    by BrK ( 39585 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:20AM (#588423) Homepage
    The only way anything gets fixed is when Big Corp has egg on it's face. If this guy would've simply identified the weaknesses he found in these companies, they would've just said "Thanks, now go away", and continued to operate, while putting YOU and I at risk. Risk of losing our money in the banks, risk of airport security, etc.

    You really can't compare some psycho murdering twit with a guy who learns how to beat "The System".
  • Well if you look around, it seems that we will glorify just about anything. Actors are adored for being fake, and the real people whom the actors often portray are peripheral. Rock musicians who suck are praised for their talents when in fact they have none, they just look good in the video. So why should we exclude criminals from our list of golden idols? I tell you, the only thing you can do is move to the ozarks and form a militia, occasionally coming down from the firing range in the hills to vote republican and maybe recruit some teenage nazis.
  • Why *should* I care about this guy - that's the *real* question. What does how he lived have to say to me?

    I just picked up a copy of a book I read a *long* time ago: Ringelevio, by Emmet Grogan.

    Now, 99% of y'all are too young to actually *know* anything about us real hippies (just the bs the media feeds you), but this is a guy who was one of the Diggers, in SF, in the "Summer of Love" (what a *joke*), who found housing and food for the naieve kids who had no clue...and for others, as well.

    He started in NYC, and if you want crime, fine, he started with burglery...*clever* theft.

    Now, this autobiography should be taken with a lot of salt...*but* it has a lot more to say, I think, about how we live our lives, and what's important. Hell, I could even make a case paralleling the Diggers and the Open Source Movement...but I'll let anyone I've intrigued go find the book, itself (I had to get it from the UK).

    It's a good and gripping read, too.

    mark
  • This is sort of what I was feeling as I read the review. And it is also one of the prime reasons that I stick with Fantasy/Sci-fi/Space-opera type stories. I prefer a story that satisfies the basic ideals of good vs. evil, and it seems that only in fiction is this possible.

    Now, don't get me wrong, there are some good non-fiction books out that deal with subjects that should be looked at with respect. But in all honesty, this obsession we have with the depths of depravity is the most depressing part of the human race. I don't know how we can fix this, but it is one of the things I fight against whenever I can. The glorification of things that shouldn't be glorified seems to be one of the biggest segments of any media/news or entertainment company. Even in the music industry, the truly talented musicians that work hard and keep their dignity are ignored, while the slacker junkies and "larger than life" people that trash motel rooms and throw fits left and right (remember Axl Rose?) are promoted as THE GREAT HERO.

    I don't know, but I think that people enjoy this too much. Too many people want to see not "heroes" in the traditional sense, but they want to see people that make them feel better about their lives. They want to see that guy that's addicted to every drug in the world, because no matter how messed up they are they "won't ever do that". Or people want to see the guy that has enough money (and enough lawyers) that he can get by with destroying a motel room, and he is childish enough to think that's cool. Because then they can sit back and think, "Wow, I'm more mature than I thought. I wouldn't ever do that."

    People aren't looking for positive role models. They want to see something that makes them feel better about themselves. That is why the golirification of negativity is so profitable. People don't want to see a "good person" glorified, because that makes them feel like they haven't done enough, it makes them feel guilty. Modern society has taught us something, "never question, never ask, never seek answers". Be contended in your stupidity, that is what big daddy business wants.

  • At least, i think he works for our IT department! :)
  • With all the kharma whores around here, I wouldn't be surprised.

  • But isnt that the same point as D.A.R.E? (drug awareness and resistance education)

    they pretty much go into schools and tell 6 year olds "this is crack, you can use crack all sorts of ways, don't use crack" and the expect this to help kids?

    "NO Thats not how you blow up an oil rig timmy!"

    Klown
    don't bug me about spelling, I'm tired
  • That certainly would explain Jerry Springer. :)
  • We already have that state. That's why Seattle had the WTO riots.

    People romanticise criminals, for the most part, out of greed and selfishness. "Now if _I_ knocked over a bank, I'd get this and this and that..." It's rarer that you'll have a person going "Now, if _I_ was mugging old ladies I'd kick them here and here and here" but it's probably going to become more popular. Brutalising a person or thing helps make things seem less out of control and threatening. People get off on the power of it and how easy it can be (well, sort of) and the romanticising is largely a lot of people who don't have the nerve to do what they think they want to do- crime. Law of the jungle. Anarchy! :P

    The funny thing is, this is a sick distortion of what anarchy is really about. I found myself re-forming my political opinions around election time :P and in my reading, one thing really hit home- when you talk anarchism, there's a big difference between the people who want to 'mug old ladies' and the ones who want to cut down all forms of authority, as much as possible.

    The former obviously are going to glorify criminals, that's a given. That's when you'll be hearing talk like 'rising above the system' (yah, like ripping me off for my bank deposit is evidence of some great enlightenment). The latter? The thing you have to understand about traditional anarchists is that anarchism does not make sense except in the context of a community. It's an undercutting of all forms of authority, including the physical authority of the mugger (or the manipulative conman authority of the fake bank guard). Everything becomes a process of negotiation, you don't have Authority to cry to anymore and you have to actually deal with people on an equal basis, interact with them instead of dominating or submitting to them. It's hard damn work- hard enough that children and immature people may get very frustrated. "If it's an anarchy why can't I get what I WANT?"

    I think that's a good enough reason why some people always will glorify criminals. There's always going to be some people too dumb, selfish or dysfunctional to cooperate with other people, and they will long to just take what they want, always, in a sort of two-year-old fantasy world. The best thing to do is learn to recognise people like that and if you can't help them grow up a bit, don't leave your money lying around near them :)

  • What happens when one hacks a computer system and exposes the weakness???? If the system admins have any intelligence they put effort into fixing and improving the system so that it doesn't happen again. This is exactly what Frank did! Not only did I get to meet him at one of his "Banking Security" conference gigs I immediately started cleaning up my own act as a Bank Teller in the 80's. As the lightbulb went on (it's rare but delightful) the criminal mind made sense. In the following months I *personally* stopped three "Bank Kiting" operations in excess of 30K. I was only 21 at the time and still in college. Read the book if you don't know what "Kiting" is. His book made quite an impression on me, however, I too noticed the discrepencies between his story on tape and the book. IMO - exposing the crime builds a better system! Hell, if I hadn't been caught stealing that Star Wars Light Saber when I was in junior high... where would I be now? I wasn't smart enough back then to learn to make a profit out of it ;-)
  • To take this further... He didn't try to publish this book as some underground how-to: manual, nor did he continue on this path after he had matured enough to realize that this wasn't the best route through life. Passing bad check is _is_ a Bad Thing, but he later went on the advise banks and financial companies on how to spot others' trying to follow in his footsteps.

    Personally, I think that without the White Hats, or maybe even the Grey Hats, the world would be worse off...
  • Bank Kiting is almost impossible to do now-a-days with a physical check, because clearing the checks through a "Clearing House" is sooo fast.

    But let's pretend things are as they were in the 70's and 80's and your check is getting cleared with a much slower process.

    You need three banks to make it work, open an account in all three. Let's call them Bank A,B, and C respectively spread a ways apart across town. Go make deposit for $10K into Bank A FROM Bank B, then goto Bank B and deposit a $15K check FROM Bank C. Finally, go into Bank C again and deposit a $20K check FROM Bank A.

    Are you confused yet??? You shouldn't be you're a slashdot reader!!!!

    Remember the only thing that exists thus far are CHECKS, no cash. When Bank A sends a check to clear from Bank B, Bank B shows a nice fat deposit of $15K, so it clears it. Now, Bank B needs to clear it's deposit check and finds a nice fat account of $20K, so it clears it.

    Now, in the mean time you have gone back into Bank A and withdrew 10K in CASH. Then you run across town and withdrawl $15K from Bank B in cash. Unfortunately, it is Bank C, when they go to clear a check for $20K from Bank A that gets stung.

    Disclaimer: No, I haven't done this myself... I actually attended one of Franks Gig's as a Bank Teller (Mandatory training for security) in the 80's... He is REAL, the schemes back then ARE ALL plausible, and if HE hadn't gotten caught, many more banking institutions would have been stung!!

  • He's lying about his lying! (Score:5)

    by eris_crow ( 234864 ) <eris_crow&eldain,com> on Friday December 01, 2000 @09:40AM (#588435) Homepage
    The real scam is that he's scammed everyone into thinking he's a scam artist, even though he really isn't! This man has never actually scammed anyone in his life, so if you believe that he has...

    Surprise! You've been scammed!

    I know this to be true, because I met him one time, and he told me that he's really just using the book to raise money for a liver transplant for his 12 year old little girl, who's waiting at the Shriner's Hospital in Houston. So do like I did, and send him some money, right now!

    But don't believe his cockamamey stories about being able to fool people.

  • Ever seen/read Robin Hood?

  • Since I'm a cheapskate, I looked for this book in my public library system, and found one with exactly the same authors--from 1980. So it probably is the guy who was on talk shows in the '70s.

    What we don't know is if the book was changed or updated to reflect the last 20 years.

    Interesting. . .

  • You have got to be kidding. Did you actually think that this guy really flew planes? Performed surgery? Tried defending somebody in court?

    Con artists of this nature never ever try to actually do the things that come with the jobs they're impersonating. That would have to be rule one of the con artist: Never actually attempt to bring the BS into the real world. That would instantly blow their cover.

    As for your slamming of trained professionals, here's a news flash for you: People aren't perfect. They make mistakes. Even the highly trained people make mistakes, whether by honest accident or because their expert status leads them into the trap of hubris. However, if just any average joe tried performing the activities of the trained professionals, the result would be utter chaos.

  • It's been a while since I've read the book, but I think there was a period of time where he was flying, if only sitting in the seat while the auto-pilot did the flying, so that the real pilot could piss, or sleep, or something.

    Well, by that standard I've flown a 727, then, by virtue of being the only one awake in the cockpit. (For awhile, anyway. After I thought about it, I realized the only way I'd know anything was wrong was if it beeped or buzzed or whatever, and that would wake up the PIC just as well as I could, so there wasn't any real reason for me to stay awake, either. So I didn't. Hey, if we're going to engage in Uncontrolled Flight Into Terrain, I'd just as soon sleep through it.)

  • other than why an airline pilot would be in grad school for sociology

    A lot of pilots (especially ones who came out of the armed forces) don't plan to do it for life. For one thing, FAA regs require you to stop flying at 60. Period. Doesn't matter what your physical says. When your only promotion path is to go from "fly plane" to "fly desk, managing people who fly planes," sometimes you want to have another option, even before 60.

    was probably BS

    Of course, some of the biggest BS'ers I've known have been (real) pilots, so...

  • It is the 1st edition by that publisher..It was printed in '82 by Pocket Books...maybe published earlier than that too...here is a link [amazon.com]

  • someone flying jetliners without a pilot's license is a horrendously scary thing to contemplate

    He didn't fly the jetliners (I assume, not having read the book), he just flew for free. Aircraft have jumpseats in the cockpit for trainers and FAA inspectors. You can ride up there if the seat isn't in use, if you're authorized to be in the cockpit. In the US, you have to be a commercial pilot, and airlines have courtesy agreements by which other airlines' pilots can jumpseat for free. So if you show up with a real-looking ID, you're in. (At least until an FAA inspector comes along and bumps you.) Even today, computers and all, I don't think an airline can check to see if a particular individual really is employed by another airline without calling up their Crew Scheduling department and asking... which they'd be highly unlikely to do unless they had a reason to suspect something.

    In no case are you ever actually doing anything related to flying the plane (unless there's an emergency in which one of the on-duty crewmembers needs to be replaced). But he probably was convincing enough with his cockpit chatter that he convinced the pilots who were driving.

  • Just who, precisely, is hurt or inconvenienced in this scenario? You're the one suggesting physical harm to people with the "ipecac" trick. That makes me think that you are sick in the mind, you weirdo. I'm going to stay the hell away from whichever McDonalds you work at, you uptight, murderous deviate.
  • >>What is it with the current trend to >>romanticising criminals and their lifestyles,

    Oh it's not a 'current trend' at all. It's been with us for a very long time. Butch and Sundance. Bonnie and Clyde. Billy the Kid. The Brinks job gang. The Great Train Robbery gang. And there are many other's. They have all been raised to a level of noteriety above and beyond the facts of the crimes. Anyway you get the idea. And as far as fighting against it, there are somethings that we'll never completely get rid of. I'm not saying don't fight against it. Just plan on not completely winning the war.
  • for the American series "The Pretender"?

    Seriously, I'm sure there are some other examples like these and it'd be fascinating to find out about these people. SE is a great skill that can either 1.) get you into a lot of trouble or 2.) into a decent sales career. ;-)
  • This is the best, most appropriate, awe-inspiring Slashdot comment I have ever seen! WOW!
  • this whole converstaion seems to support my theory that all/most americans are racist idiots. the US pasted is prime a few years back, you just don't seem to realize it.

  • Must read... (Score:4)

    by BrK ( 39585 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @05:52AM (#588448) Homepage
    I first read this one about 10 years ago, and keep a paperback copy for "reference". One recurring theme in the book is one that any Social Engineer learns early on: Act like you're supposed to be there/doing that.

    The author of the book spent time spoofing as an airline pilot, doctor, lawyer, and other trades. In each case he managed to fool people in these trades into believing that he belonged. There are a lot of good Think On Your Feet examples in the book as well.

    Excellent book, a must read, IMO.

  • Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:5)

    by Dan Hayes ( 212400 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:01AM (#588449)

    What is it with the current trend to romanticising criminals and their lifestyles, no matter what they do? Sure, this man isn't exactly a serial rapist, but there are other books out there which both allow criminals to attempt to justify and/or glorify what they did as well as profit from them. This is a pretty sad indication of today's culture.

    And surely this sort of thing is just cruel to the victims of these criminals? If your loved one was murdered by some psycho and then you saw his book everywhere talking about how he did it you'd be both disgusted and upset? Why should people who have been victims of crime have to deal with this additional indignity?

    Sorry, but criminals should not be lauded for their deeds. It's only a small step from there to a state in which crime becomes accepted as a fundamental part of life, not something which we should be attempting to get rid of.

  • Harry Harrison's The Stainless Steel Rat
    Aaah, but "Slippery" Jim DiGriz went right out of his way to avoid killing... Wonder what happened to Harry Harrison?
    If you 've never read any SSR, do yourself a favour and get all the books!!! :)

    Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.


  • Patient:"Are you a doctor?"

    Jarod:"I am today."

    or

    You have The Talented Mr. Ripley.

    Either way, it's really freaky stuff.

  • Hmmn (Score:3)

    by jallen02 ( 124384 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:02AM (#588452) Homepage Journal
    He was caught

    The really fascinating stories like this are the ones you never hear about.

    Those are the people who go undetected hacking the system so to speak

    Its unfortunate we wont hear about the people who are smart enough to never get caught, because they are the ones truly *above* the system

    Jeremy

  • What is it with the current trend to romanticising criminals and their lifestyles, no matter what they do? Sure, this man isn't exactly a serial rapist, but there are other books out there which both allow criminals to attempt to justify and/or glorify what they did as well as profit from them. This is a pretty sad indication of today's culture.

    On the contrary, I think it's an indication of the success of our culture... that and the nature of a good story. The core of most stories is danger and conflict. But we've killed or driven off the dangerous animals. We've visited or looked down on every square inch of the planet. The continental US has not been invaded in living memeory. Roving bandits have no chance against radios. And a sane person's goal in any violent criminal encounter is simply to live long enough to call the police.

    The world of the law abiding citizen just doesn't have as much adventure as it used to. Therefore, stories of "a man alone against his environment" are mostly about criminals.

    We're not evil, just bored. And we know the difference between learning about something and doing it. (A rather key point around here, IMO.)

    And if you object to the books simply being "out there", what do you suggest? Burning them? A culture does not grow by ingnorance

  • i also enjoyed a book by the name of.....something about a cuckoo's egg
    that was a rather good one as well

    i get paid today, think ill check it out

    -:-:-:-

    http://angelfire.com/mt/streeter [angelfire.com]

  • Re:The advantage of being European (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    On the contrary. I take showers twice a day.

    I am the very model of a modern European, I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral, I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical; I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical, I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical, About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news, With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse.

    So there!

  • Actually, Catch Me If You Can was written by someone pretending to be Frank Abagnale. The real Frank Abagnale would never have made the silly errors you caught in the book -- he was too clever an identity thief for that.

    Remember, kids: the real Frank Abagnale has Slashdot ID number 6898. Anyone else is an imposter.

    --

  • He'd said that flights of over eight hours require three pilots, while shorter ones are allowed only two, but several minutes later, he said something about being one of two pilots on a ten-hour flight.

    It can happen, but it's pretty unlikely. If you get diverted/delayed, you can end up going over your limits. Usually not by two hours, though. But sometimes (like a charter service that's only got the one crew on, say, Aruba) the airline will "accidentally" schedule a crew over its limit because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get their plane back that day, and they'd rather self-report, pay the fine, and move on than have to worry about scheduling a different plane/crew and/or a buttload of irate vacationers (who are vastly more hostile than regular business travelers, who are used to delays and whatnot and are usually not quite as drunk).

    Majors don't have to worry about this very often, because they've got enough flights, planes, and crews going through any one spot that they can just bump people to a later flight, etc.

  • What is it with the current trend to romanticising criminals and their lifestyles, no matter what they do?

    Nothing new. We've romanticized government and royalty for ages.

    Sorry, but criminals should not be lauded for their deeds. It's only a small step from there to a state in which crime becomes accepted as a fundamental part of life, not something which we should be attempting to get rid of.

    Ummm, crime committed by whom? Theft (a.k.a. confiscation or taxes) and murder committed by government is certainly accepted as a "fundamental part of life". And nobody is attempting to get rid of it.

    The government has no interest in stopping crime, only monopolizing their control of it.

    -lf

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:5)

    by pallex ( 126468 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:04AM (#588459)
    Because fact that something is illegal doesnt mean its :

    *morally wrong
    *bad
    *not funny
    *not entertaining
    *something you can`t learn from

    etc etc

  • Bill shovels! (Score:3)

    by swordgeek ( 112599 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:27AM (#588460) Journal

    "Had Bill Gates been born six hundred years ago, he'd be assistant shit-shoveler for the Duke of Silesia."

    Nah, I don't think so. Bill Gates' biggest trait is his weasel-like opportunism. Anytime, anyplace, any occupation, he would claw his way to the top on the backs of others.

    Come to think of it, he's kind of like Blackadder, but without the personality or wit.

  • This is what the series "Pretender" was all about...
  • Glorifying criminals is not a world wide phenomenon. You have to remember here that the US was for a long time a penal colony of Britain. It's hard to imagine this history not influencing America's culture in at least some perceptible way.

    Examples: gory Hollywood movies, the wide availablity of guns, an unimaginable murder rate, etc., etc.
  • This is hardly new.

    Ali-Baba, Robin Hood, The Grey Mouser, and other literary figures have been romanticised for long time.

    Actually, this particular story reminds me of a 1960 movie, The great Imposter [imdb.com], starring Tony Curtis.

    Here's the plot summary:

    "Based on the real life of Ferdinand Waldo Demara Jr., The Great Impostor tells a clever little tale of a man who refuses to accept that he should be content with less than his dreams. He discovers a talent for faking credentials and pretending to be other people. Lacking the patience to work his way up the professional ladder in the conventional manner, he takes a few shortcuts here and there as it suits him. The interesting moral question here is that, since he usually does good in the positions he obtains dubiously, is he really doing wrong?"


    Does this sound familiar?
    --
  • The real goal of these authors is to document these crimes. Criminals don't act in a vacuum. These stories highlight the failures of government oversight and can be helpful in showing criminal techniques. This can help people avoid being victimized in the future. Books like these are helpful to society.

    If readers glorify criminals, it is not the author's fault. Reserve your distain for the society, which glorifies fame for any reason. These authors have much to teach about the criminal mind and the culture of fame of which we are all too eager to feed on.
  • Just a little information for those looking to buy the book.

    SeekBooks [seekbooks.com] - $10.68
    Buy.com [buy.com] - $11.06
    Amazon [amazon.com] - $11.20
    Borders [borders.com] - $11.90
    Barnes and Noble [barnesandnoble.com] - $12.60

    Or for those who want an autographed copy, there's one here at eBay [ebay.com] selling for $5.50.

    Checking the URL, I'm not whoring for some affiliate programs. I did this for the karma.

  • Also note that there is a Stainless Steel Rat movie in the offing. That's the good news. The bad news is that it will be directed by Jan "Speed" "Speed 2" de Bont. Scifi.com has the scoop here [scifi.com] and later here [scifi.com].
    --
  • When I last read about him, Ferdinand Waldo Demara, Jr. was a Justice of the Peace in New Jersey, using his real name. In an interview, he pointed out that, as a medical doctor and surgeon, he never lost a patient, no matter what. He met many doctors that could not match this record.
  • Mr. Abagnale sounds like a man described by a fraud officer of the era as, "A man that could hand you a check on The Left Bank of the Missippi, signed by U. R. Hooked, get you to cash it, and be long gone before anything was suspected". If so, his health was broken by a long stay in a European prison, where the local authorities have a very limited sense of humor.
  • yeah that book did kick some ass
  • It's very difficult not to idolize this man, I mean who pays a prositute with a check?? I hope she's reading this article.

    I think it's quite likely that she is reading this article.


    "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
    (I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)

  • It's been a while since I've read the book, but I think there was a period of time where he was flying, if only sitting in the seat while the auto-pilot did the flying, so that the real pilot could piss, or sleep, or something.

    That and the bit with him playing doctor, where they left him in charge one night, as the senior doctor, was kinda scary.

  • Re:Anecdotes missing from previous releases? (Score:3)

    by guinsu ( 198732 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:32AM (#588472)
    I saw a bit on Talk Soup about a similar scam about 2 years ago. Basically a guy dressed up as a guard and told people the ATM was messed up but he could take their deposits, eventually the guy got busted. Of course the Talk Soup guys did a parody where their security guard ended up handing out a lot of his own cash to the people making withdraws....
  • It's sort of interesting that if you're a very succesful white collar criminal, people admire you for pointing out the flaws in the system. I guess the thinking is something along the lines of, well thank god he exploited someone else, so they can fix the problem before it happens to me.
  • It's still happening - only two weeks ago, a UK journalist (for the News of the World [newsoftheworld.co.uk] tabloid) bought a pilot's uniform, blagged a valid pass, and filmed himself walking into Birmingham Airport carrying a briefcase full of tools (and the camcorder, of course, which could easily disguise a bomb). Story link here [bbc.co.uk].

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:3)

    by Kaa ( 21510 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @07:11AM (#588475) Homepage
    What is it with the current trend to romanticising criminals and their lifestyles,

    Current trend? Dashing outlaws were (and continue to be) a staple of romantic/adventure fiction since god know when. Robin Hood stories date to when? XVI century or so?

    there are other books out there which both allow criminals to attempt to justify and/or glorify what they did

    And what's wrong with that? Criminals are people with rights -- a fact that many conveniently forget. Why shouldn't they attempt to justify what they did? Just because they have been convicted under current laws? You mean if I get a speeding ticket I cannot talk about traffic laws? Or I am not a person any more?

    criminals should not be lauded for their deeds.

    It's up to each individual to decide whether he admires or despises another person, a criminal or not.

    It's only a small step from there to a state in which crime becomes accepted as a fundamental part of life

    Well, crime *is* a fundamental part of life. I routinely break several laws every day -- I speed, I jaywalk, sometimes I litter. I trashed my detailed US census form (which is a crime). If I were to study the current laws, I am sure I could find more that I am breaking all the time.

    Not to mention that people like Mahatma Ghandi, Alexander Solzhenitzin, Nelson Mandela and the like were crimials -- weren't they? They were lawfully convicted of crimes and send to prison.
    Kaa
  • I Agree. It doesn't sound like this book is making any attempt at glorification. It mostly seems to fit right in with a white-hat hacker ethic of exposing flaws in systems that effect others. I doubt the guy set out to do just that, but it works anyway. There are some aspects of the story that are pretty disgusting -- passing bad checks is plain old thievery, and someone flying jetliners without a pilot's license is a horrendously scary thing to contemplate -- but overall it's an important lesson.

  • How can we be sure? (Score:3)

    by empesey ( 207806 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @07:41AM (#588479) Homepage
    Are we absolutely sure that Frank Abagnale is not pretending to be CmdrTaco?

  • Pathological Liar/Con Artists (Score:3)

    by Mignon ( 34109 ) <satan@programmer.net> on Friday December 01, 2000 @07:41AM (#588481)
    Reading about his exploits as a fake pilot reminds me of a guy I met at a bar. I was having a drink with a friend when the guy sitting next to us interjected into our conversation. Eventually he claimed to be a pilot who was a sociology grad student part time. That struck my friend and me as odd, but the guy seemed harmless, so we kept talking to him.

    Something else struck me as odd, though, which later led us to speculate that he was some sort of pathological liar. He'd said that flights of over eight hours require three pilots, while shorter ones are allowed only two, but several minutes later, he said something about being one of two pilots on a ten-hour flight. I asked him about the contradiction, and he smoothly got out of it, but I don't remember how.

    Another time I was approached on the street by someone who I was immediately suspicious of, but I didn't feel physically threatened, so out of curiosity I played along for a while. It turned out to be a pretty straight-forward scam - this guy was pretending to be newly arrived in this country - he had, or affected, what seemed like an African accent. He claimed to have lots of cash but for some contrived reasons couldn't deposit it at a bank himself. Then he asked a "stranger" (an obvious accomplice) to confirm his fears of using the bank. His accomplice was a woman talking on a pay phone nearby - but it was pretty clear to me that she wasn't talking to anyone at all. Eventually, the meat of the scam came out - he wanted me to deposit his "money" into my bank account using my ATM card. At this point I ducked out because I didn't see any point in going further with their scam.

    It sounds pretty obvious, but people fall for scams like this all the time. In retrospect, I wonder if, by stringing them along and giving them nothing, I prevented someone else from getting scammed... That's a pretty obscure way to justify what I did out of morbid curiosity/boredom; I suppose if I'd seen a cop, I would have gotten his attention. I'm sure that would have scared this pair off.

  • The judicial system fears hackers because they don't understand the technology. Why else would Kevin be denied the ability to use a computer in his cell. They don't understant (or WANT to beleive) that he can't do any damage without a modem. Ignorance BREEDS fear. So they set bail at an oppressive amount so that Shapeshifter can't possibly get out. That way, they can keep an eye on him.

    I'd be willing to bet that if a famous hacker were caught and jailed, he'd get the hell beaten out of him if her were to start tapping morse code on his cell bars. They'd beat him just be cause they were afraid he was doing something "dangerous."

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:3)

    by Nehemiah S. ( 69069 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @09:57AM (#588486)
    Stealing money from people, lying to them, fraudulently assuming unearned credentials and breaking the very promises upon which the entire world economy is founded is morally wrong, bad, and not very funny. It may be entertaining- especially if the guy gets caught and spends the rest of his life giving blowjobs in prison- but it isn't especially something I'd like to learn from either.

    Some things that are illegal are not morally wrong, bad etc., but no one glorifies tax evasion or u-turns on deserted roads at 3 am. The guys who get glorified are the killers, the rapists, and the violent thieves. And don't fool yourself with some kind of pseudo-philosophical babble; we do it because its sexy, and because it sells movies. It's entertaining, and Sylvester Stallone gets to take his shirt off while chasing the bad guys, and that excites people.

    I don't think this guy would have been a "hacker" or a "cracker" or any of that if he was doing his thing today. I think he'd be a spammer, with some kind of innovative "make money fast" scam or some late night "no money down" real estate scheme. But then again, I'm a cynic.

    neh
  • This is easy. It's because people like this guy actually DO what they want to do, whereas most people are simply sheep, living boring, stagnant, unfulfilling lives. This guy knew how to live. Most minivan driving suburbanites have fantasies about being able to something other than shuttling kids to/from soccer practice and sitting in rush hour traffic.

  • [First of all I'm amused that this book has been out for so long and it rated a review now, but at least it's a book I've read, so I can somewhat comment intelligently on it.]

    One of the more interesting stories in this book was that while he was on a plane on his way to being extradited, or I guess during the actual extradition, he went to the plane's toilet/head right after landing and then used his (by then) intimate knowledge of the plane to lift out the toilet and escape to the runway out the back access hatch of the plane, which he knew sometimes popped open upon landing, so that the pilots would ignore the warning indication. Of course he got away, but this was also in the days before really tight security, too. I had actually heard this story in the news that someone had escaped from a plane through the toilet, and was pleasantly surprised when I picked up the book years later.

    Another thing his escapades with the checks did was to prompt instructing tellers about how to detect suspect checks. If a check is from a local company, one of the codes at the bottom of the check should reflect that it should get cleared through a regional reserve bank. The codes he put on extended his "float" by sending them off to BFE so that by the time someone got around to noticing that it was phony, he was loooong gone.

    Interesting read. If you like this one, also check out Hacksaw by Edward R. Jones. Unfortunately Amazon says its out of print. This story is a little more blue collar than Abagnale's, but it tells the tale of someone the law just couldn't pin down even while in prison (but he just kept getting caught).

    DT
    --

  • Hackers and the criminal ethic (Score:3)

    by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:06AM (#588492) Journal
    Talented he obviously was

    There is the question of the inherent rightness and wrongness of what he did. And this is the question that bedevils hackers and the culture of technology.

    Given all of the possible justifications that someone could come up with [new college course: Improvisational Ethics 101], what *is* justified, and when are the excuses given just plain BS, no matter what jollies you get from the hack; well this all needs to be re-examined.

    This might mean painful experiences like growing up, etc.

    Sometimes the attitude does not translate well into other areas. [Psychosurgury or politics, for example.] This would tend to expose potential flaws in ethical arguments.

    Hate to say it, but this calls for so serious self-reflection. [Kiddies need not apply]

  • Social Engineering (Score:3)

    by Servo ( 9177 ) <dstringf@tut[ ]ta.com ['ano' in gap]> on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:08AM (#588495) Journal
    I think social engineering is a much needed skill. Those who have it will definately prosper.

    Ways to use social engineering:
    For good, for evil, for questionable, for illegal, and legal. Some of these overlap, but not always in the obvious way.
    ie, using SE to get a company to use your services as a computer contractor, even though another may be cheaper and have better existing resources, is legal, good for your company, but questionable in the way you present yourself.

    SE is simply convincing others to accept your projected view. A lawyer at a trial is social engineering the judge and jury. A salesman is social engineering customers so think they want a product. Its all just hacking the system called social interaction.

  • Abagnale is GREAT! (Score:4)

    by GMontag ( 42283 ) <gmontag@guymontag. c o m> on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:08AM (#588496) Homepage Journal
    Well, he is great if he is the same guy that I saw as a guest on various talk shows in the 1970's. Sounds exactly like the same guy.

    If anybody has access to old Tonight Show archives, try to find one with Abagnale being interviewed by guest host George Carlin, from around 1975 or so (not kidding, younger readers). Abagnale tells a story of how he was able to pass a forged check to a very expensive prostitute/call girl (memory fuzzy on where it was) in a very pricy hotel, also paid for with a bad check. Oh yes, I think he got several hundred dollars US change back from her.

    On interviews of the period, he covers how to use magnetic ink to forge deposit slips and place them in bank lobbies so that all deposits processed with those slips dump into an account of the forger's choice. Also how he created a fake night deposit box, stood guard on it all evening and had 2 rentacops or real cops (forgot) help him load it into his "security van" because it was too heavy for him to lift.

    He never mentioned that many of these methods could be used for revenge too, i.e., how would you explain a couple million dollars in your bank account from forged deposit slips?

    His stories are fantastic, excellent interview, excellent speaker too. Highly recommended, now I have to get the book!

    Visit DC2600 [dc2600.com]

  • Justice certainly is out of proportion. (Score:3)

    by AFCArchvile ( 221494 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @06:10AM (#588499)
    What Kevin Mitnick did was the equivalent of grafitti. And why the hell was Shapeshifter held on $1,000,000 bail for disturbing the peace?

    Come on. That's the kind of bail set for something more serious than aggravated assault, but less serious than rape or murder (which usually have no bail). Perhaps the judicial [quota] system is being corrupted by the corporate status quo. Sure, the things that Mitnick and Shapeshifter did weren't too serious, but they put in jeopardy the revenue flow for companies and campaigns. In the corporate world, that's considered treason. And you know the punishment for treason...

  • Whether all or some of this is true or not the thing that creeps me out the most is that in many situations there is no qualitative difference between success and failure, between truth and bullshit, between having a skill and making it up. Sure we've all been in jobs over our heads sometime in our lives but what does it say when a guy can get behind the controls of an airliner and take off and land w/o screwing it into the tarmac?

    So is everyone just an overvalued bullshit burger flipper? Does it really matter that your vascular surgeon went to school? Do you we all wear smocks and have our names stitched on our shirts only we don't know it? Stories like this in a small way convince me more and more to pay little if any attention to experts, professionals and specialists.

    By example the third or fourth leading cause of death in America is apparently, if you believe the news in the last 6 months, medical malpractice and incompetance. And these are the people ostensibly trained to perform these jobs. And think about this the next time you have to power up your laptop in the patdown lane in the airport. Virtually every air traffic death since the inception of commercial air travel was the result of human error; either in the air on the maintenance floor or in the control tower, or, worse yet, the absolute refusal to heed weather warnings.

  • Cry me a river (Score:3)

    by xant ( 99438 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @08:07AM (#588508) Homepage
    This guy ripped off banks. I won't be losing any sleep if I decide to buy and enjoy his book.
    --
  • Hmm you make it sound like criminals are aliens..

    Actually I consider criminals and broderliners as the watchdogs of our society. They`ll constantly remind us what`s wrong with this world. We could declare Antartica as a dumpyard for criminals, that would rid us of all our problems, but look what happenned to Australia when the English dumped their criminals over there :) (sorry, sick joke) The bottom line is.. does it help society by simply removing trouble from society ? Does that teach us anything ?

    Maybe it`s because I have an inmense faith in humanity alltogether, but imho in most cases, criminal acts are simply the final stage of a series of unaddressed social difficulties. Now, what`s really so catching with this story is that this guy is pulling society`s legs in a smarter way that most other people would, and deep down you probably have the same sort of wanting for that kind of an adventurous life. That`s pretty human, too.

    Is it therefore sad to have that kind of a twist in your soul ? I`m not so sure.. In any casse, I agree it`s wrong what the man did, and I want justice just as well, but I also want to learn from his experiences. If people are sensible, even as victim, they can see that getting the story out makes people aware of the potential dangers.. in many cases, that`s exactly what earlier victims want: to tell their story, and to seek justice.

    Writing a romanticising novel about it isn`t going to hurt anyone.. it might both inspire and warn us. It`ll hopefully make our social structures more protected against abuses, and deal with the more fundamental issues that gave way to the criminal behaviour in the first place.

  • Re:What is the difference between success and fail (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01, 2000 @08:13AM (#588515)
    I saw this guy speak at a Chamber of Commerce banquet about 12 years ago. He generally assumed the identity of the profession but avoided the job. He claimed that as a pilot he only sat in the big chair once (with auto-pilot engaged) and as a doctor he let all the interns make their own diagnosis and decisions (luckily he wasn't called upon to fix any of their mistakes). How hard of a concept it that to handle? Your manager probably pretends to be an engineer/admin/programmer/tech but doesn't actually do any of those things.
  • At the receiving end of all this is a hospital, and for some reason or another the patient records get corrupted by the virus (or something like that) and they can't find out what drugs this one guy is allergic to. And the movie ends with some words of wisdom. Has anyone else seen, or remeber seeing this stupid movie?

    hmmmm.... What precisely is stupid about trying to teach kids that their actions can have repercussions? I mean, was the film just stupid in general, or do you think that the message was a bad one?

    Last year or so, I read an item about a kid who might go to jail for stealing a traffic sign. It was a stop sign and an out of towner got killed going through the intersection. Involuntary manslaughter. I totally supported the charge. The kid did something that any reasonable person (even a kid) would know could cause a death. The point is, I'm all for teaching people to take their own actions seriously and take responsibility for the end results of their "pranks" even if it takes a cheesy classroom film with dumb directing to do it.

    -Kahuna Burger

  • When I'm in need of a laugh, I walk over to the McDonald's restaurant next to my office and tape a hand-written sign to the drive-thru menu that reads "Speaker broken - Please YELL loudly." Sometimes there are cars in line when I walk over and tape the sign up. I just give them a sheepish smile and wave. Without any hesitation, the patrons drive up and scream their orders into the speaker. Then I go in to the restaurant and order a soda at the counter. Pure comedy

    Hey, then once you're inside, you could pour syrup of iapec in a dispenser labled "coffee cream"! wow, lying is so clever! And causing people you don't know to be uncomfortable or in pain is so funny!

    Immature ass. Grow up.

    -Kahuna Burger

  • Re:Why do we glorify criminals? (Score:4)

    by SlippyToad ( 240532 ) on Friday December 01, 2000 @08:17AM (#588518)
    What is it with the current trend to romanticizing trolls and their lifestyles, no matter how poorly they do it? Sure, this man isn't exactly Signal 11, but there are other books out there which both allow trolls to attempt to justify and/or glorify what they did as well as profit from them. This is a pretty sad indication of Slashdot's culture.

    And surely this sort of thing is just as cruel to the sysadmins? If your beloved comment was trolled by some maniac and then you saw his book everywhere bragging about what a troll he is you'd be both disgusted and upset? Why should people who have been victimized by trolls have to deal with this additional indignity?

    Sorry, but trolls should not be lauded for their deeds. It's only a small step from there to a Slashdot in which trolling becomes accepted as a fundamental part of life . . .oh, wait a minute. I'm barking up the wrong fucking tree here.
  • That's an interesting and totally sensible explanation. For all I know he gave a similar explanation. I wish I could remember how he explained it, because that was the biggest gap in his story (other than why an airline pilot would be in grad school for sociology). How he handled it plays a big part in deciding whether he was legit or not, as mentioned in the review.

    It's harder to remember nonsense than coherent ideas, so the fact that I don't remember his explanation suggests to me that it didn't make so much sense and was probably BS.

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