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Sony and AOL vs Microsoft 173

Posted by CmdrTaco from the allright-thats-just-plain-creapy dept.
jadrien writes "As the war for the common denominator access platform continues, the only two players that scare Microsoft team up. This story on CNET news.com details some of the forthcoming collaborations, including keyboard, monitor, mouse, and mozilla." Yes thats right kids, AOL is coming to your PS/2.
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Sony and AOL vs Microsoft More

Sony and AOL vs Microsoft

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  • just goes to show (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    that the saying 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' is *not* true. At least, with friends like AOL and Sony, who'd need foes ...

    monty

  • Re:aol evil. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    www.aolsucks.com

    nuff said, altho if you are on AOL you will get error 404, hmm i wonder why

  • Nothing can stop the lame jokes (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I've tried. I've directed the moderators to mod them down. I've abused them. I've abused the moderators. Nothing works. The dumb jokes get scored "funny". They're not fucken funny. Why would the moderators score something "funny" when it isn't? Why?

  • Re:aol evil. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    check www.aolwatch.org for the latest news on aol's misdeeds

    it goes far deeper than just screwing over their customers, theyre also in the habit of doctoring their books so they can screw their stockholders too. most of AOL's money is pretend money, as most of their subscribers are throwaway subscriptions. try 500 hours free, then next month try another 500 hours free, and then next month try another 500. aol counts each of these 1 month, never paid for subscriptions as a FULL YEAR of PAID subscriptions in their bookwork. they do this so they can keep saying "4 million subscribers cant be wrong" even when half of them are imaginary.

  • What is the underlying OS? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Mozilla and external hardware plus a harddrive --this calls for an operating system.
    Will it be Linux?

  • kill us all now (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Great. The two dumbest products on the planet collaborating to make the world a lesser place. You'd think these media giants would figure it out - NO ONE WANTS TO BROWSE ON THEIR TV!! When HDTV becomes the standard in, oh, 2050, then maybe we'd want to have net access through the TV. But until then, Sony, AOL, and MS are all insane. This is what happens when you have too many tens of billions of dollars lying around. I hope they all fail miserably, just like webtv. Another thing, why would anyone fork over the cost of a PS2, adapter, HD, keyboard, mouse, and ISP fees when a much more versatile computer system can be had for the same price? I suppose parents would much rather buy a $600 network game machine for their kids than a multipurpose computer right? As for network gaming, I think that those who care would opt for a real computer, not a DVD-player-wannabe. When Wal-Mart announces its entry into the interactive tv/network gaming/isp arena, it will indeed be time for the four horsemen to take their ride.
  • But we know who will lose the fight.

    Us, or more accurately "the consumer".

  • Re:must you go with aol? (Score:3)

    by slim ( 1652 ) <john@@@hartnup...net> on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @09:54AM (#222078) Homepage
    The Dreamcast isn't locked to a single ISP in hardware -- it's just that in Europe Sega never gave you the software to change the dialup settings. You *can* change the settings, even on a Euro DC, using US or Jap browser disks, and those settings are kept in flash RAM, so that certain PAL games can use whatever ISP you like. Phantasy Star Online is one such game...
    --

  • Actually, these types of things tend to work the other way around. Every time Microsoft has pointed out weaknesses in Linux, especially legitimate problems, the Linux community has rallied and corrected the problems. For example, the Mindcraft benchmarks were nothing more than Microsoft sponsored R&D for the Linux kernel team. If anything Mundie's inane have served as advertisements Linux. His most damaging criticisms have been rebuffed over and over again, by Linuxers and non-Linuxers alike.

    This announcement only goes to show why it is that Microsoft's ambitions will be foiled in the long run. Microsoft may be the biggest software company on the planet, but they aren't big enough to take on the entire rest of the industry. They have back-stabbed so many of their allies that there is no one left to watch their back, and their competitors are showing that they are more than willing to cooperate if it means denying Microsoft control of yet another market. The OS and Office suite markets will become commodity markets eventually, and Microsoft is going to be hard pressed to find some other market that they can dominate as completely as they have dominated the desktop.

  • Yeah, but not AOL 6.0! Imagine all those new, nifty AOL features you're missing out on by using an old version, like . . . like . . . like . . . ummm . . . well, nevermind.
  • Yeah, I know. I just moved and havn't set it back up yet. Some day it will be working again, once I figure out how to set everything back up...

  • Hey, wait... (Score:4)

    by cluening ( 6626 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:06AM (#222082) Homepage
    My PS/2 is a Model 55/SX from about 1988 or so. It has 4 meg of memory and runs at 16 MHz. It also powers my fishcam. When I got ahold of it it had Win3.1 on it, and might have even had AOL on it already (I don't recall...). So HA! My PS/2 already has AOL!

    (Oh, wait. Maybe that isn't what he meant...)
  • nonsense. it's only really in the last decade this rift has appeared. Nintendo were planning modems and home banking with the original NES. What was your commodore 64, your spectrum, your amiga? Games machines? Computers? Consoles?

    "computer" is going to mean server very soon. most people will be using 'appliances' under which category games machines will fall.
  • I think it may not be a success on the PlayStation 2 platform. The reason is simple: PS2 doesn't currently support higher-resolution TV's of both CRT and projection variety, which means not much improvement over WebTV now.

    One far-reaching idea about Xbox was that they designed the system to support even 1080i HDTV monitors and projection TV's. This will make surfing the Internet a far more pleasant experience than on PS2.

    According to the article, AOL said this is not an exclusive deal with Sony; that means we may see AOL on Xbox by this time next year.
  • There's also one more thing about Xbox: it has quite a bit more computing power than PlayStation 2. And Xbox will support higher-resolution projection TV's, including HDTV, which means surfing AOL on Xbox could be a more pleasant experience than on PS2.

    Remember AOL has said it may offer AOL on other Net-compatible gaming consoles in the future. That means we may also see AOL on Xbox by this time next year.
  • ...remember eWorld?

    That was built on the AOL servers and AOL Mac client...

    S.
  • Now M$ will be competing against a team of the premier content producer (AOL's portal service with its millions of subscribers, [Oh and Time-Warner too,] :-) and the premier play-platform producer (Sony, which also happens to be a class outfit which produces everything from games to movies to...)

    Why waste cash a PC and all those headaches when a PS2 will do just fine and will never crash?

    Look for M$ to start spitting in every direction: "Open Source is a communist plot" and "Buy our X-Box against Japanese imperialism." (Strike that last one. It would cut into OS Sales.)

    Cute, with M$ reputation of delivering too little too late, its going to be a battle of the bank accounts. Who's got deeper pockets and a stabler revenue stream?
  • Coleco Adam [computingmuseum.com] (sold standalone or as ColecoVision Expansion Module #3)

    The "you can turn it into a computer" logic seemed to appeal to my parents too, even though we had a funky greenscreen Apple ][+. The Adam shipped a little too late and with too few features (such as pricy highspeed tapes instead of disks), and never really could compete with Commodore and Atari.
    --
  • Because AOL is working with Dell [aoltimewarner.com] to get AOL into every classroom in Pennsylvania at "no expense" to the school. By buying a DELL computer - the school gets a version of AOL for the classroom for "free".

    <FLAMBAIT like comment>
    Just like cigarettes, get 'em hooked (on AOL) while young and those who do don't know better will stay hooked. </FLAMBAIT like comment>

  • Because M$ bought 10% of Apple to keep them from going out of business.

    From my understanding it was more along the lines of M$ buying $150M of nonvoting stock as part of an out-of-court settlement regarding some non-licensed inclusion of QuickTime code into the then-new Windows98. Apple found out, threatened to sue, MS offered to buy some stock to shut them up (along with some effective Office-type sabre rattling) and it was a done deal.

  • How ya gonna do it?
    PS/2 it!


    ---

  • Wow (Score:4)

    by NMerriam ( 15122 ) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:28AM (#222092) Homepage
    Geez, I should get a consulting fee or something [slashdot.org] at least.

    Slashdot -- News for Nerds, Business Plans for Corporations.

    ---------------------------------------------
  • Hmm... AOL via the PS2.

    Here's my worry. AOL is not really known for its gaming ability; anything outside AOL's network is accessed by a massive proxy. So are AOL-PS2 customers going to play GAMES through that? They'll either burn out the servers or they'll get such high latency that their games will turn into slide shows.

    Still, who else saw this coming? (Many hands go up.)

    Thats what I thought.

  • Why Sony? (Score:4)

    by Mike Schiraldi ( 18296 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:08AM (#222094) Homepage Journal
    Why doesn't AOL team up with Apple? Or merge with them? With both of them, their claim to fame (or, in the case of Apple, their claim to mediocrity) was one word: "easy". Make things easy. I think there could be some slick network appliances if the two worked together.

    --

  • Because Sony has saturation at the TV with PS1. They're hoping to turn this into saturation at the TV with PS2. Why would AOL want to waste the time, effort, and expense to try and get that same type of penetration with a new set-top box? Couple that with the fact that Sony is probably throwing them a lot of money to do this, and you see how the decision was made.

  • from the allright-thats-just-plain-creapy dept.

    can a man get a spellchecker ..

    from the alright-that's-just-bad-spelling-dept.

  • Judge not, let thee be judged thyself.

  • Consumer electronics suck. (Score:4)

    by double_h ( 21284 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:33AM (#222098) Homepage

    Additional hardware including a hard-disk drive, liquid-crystal display (LCD), keyboard and mouse will be offered to help customers access the new features.

    Note that the monitor being discussed is a special LCD monitor, and not a standard VGA hookup. Why? Because the PS2 is a DVD player, and the DVD Consortium has apparently dictated that DVD players aren't allowed to output an RGB signal, because Macrovision only works along a composite signal path.

    Reservoir Zig [prmsystems.com]

  • Why is it that this makes news?

    I question this simply because of the fact that *EVERY* "Appliance" that has hit the market has died a horrible death.

    I personally wouldn't buy a PS2 to surf the net because it would suck. For the same reason the I-Openers sucked, for the same reason the Virgin WebPlayers sucked and for the same reason all of 3coms webpads have sucked.

    Most importantly, why in gods name are "slashdotters" supporting one evil over another?? Isn't the PS2 one of the most proprietary consoles around? Isn't AOL one of the biggest monopolies around?

    I don't get it. I remember buying all my Sega consoles because Sega kicks ass as a gaming company. Sony, well they kick ass at sucking up your money, much like Microsoft, Much like AOL or any media titan for that matter

    Now that i have said all that, i hope they do applianc'ize the PS2 and i hope it days a quick death for that matter.

    For those that say they want wireless accessories, fast gaming, and hdtv or analog tv support why not spend 500.00 on a PC that will do all of that and much more instead of sicking 500+ dollars into a device that will have an old version of java, not support new media formats, be limited to a single vendor and most important of all be 100% proprietary

    Good ridance PS2

  • Well, given that Linux is already available [slashdot.org] for the PS2, it seems like a reasonable assumption. I can't see them licensing WinCE, what with one thing and another [xbox.com]...

  • Ok let's put some things together.
    What AOL has:
    -Largest online community
    -Rumours of upcoming Linux support. Long time ago, maybe vapour.
    What Sonay has:
    -Most (?/very) popular game console
    -Hardware that runs Linux.
    What they both have:
    -Microsoft is enemy no 1
    What Microsoft wants:
    -Take over AOL's community
    -Get XboXes (=WebTerminals) into houses

    What I think is that Microsoft uses the Xboxes into peoples houses and at some point tie them into the Microsoft Network. This would be a lot of competetion for AOL.
    Using Sony's hardware (PS2) they can run there rumoured Linux software without needing Microsoft for anything, and they are using Microsofts own trick against it.
    Sony profits from having a strong partner that delivers lots of added value for there hardware.
    The bonus for us would be that we probably also can run AOL's linux software (oh yes, I have been waiting for that . . . . NOT!) and get a lot of Linux enabled PS2's (yes :) .
  • Wait. Isn't it 'PSX2'??
  • Why doesn't AOL team up with Apple? Or merge with them?
    Maybe becaaue Apple is not very happy with AOL's success? AOL began its life as Applelink Personal Edition.
  • I've gotcha beat!

    I've got a PS/2 Model 50z. Decked out with a full 2MB of RAM and a 60MB HDD.

    Running an 80286 chip at a blazin' 10mhz!

    It's still got my entire (former) BBS on it... VirtualBBS 6.12B.

    I should tie it to the serial port on my webserver...

    Hmm... telnet and then tip to a DOS BBS? It could work!

    Besides, the PS/2 has those rockin' 16550 UART chips... Serial comm actually works properly at 19200!

  • Sounds like a good idea to me (Score:5)

    by miracle69 ( 34841 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:23AM (#222105)
    Since the PS/2 is a loss-leader in the hardware dept (the money is made on games) - I'm all for giving it basic internet functionality. Give me a wireless keyboard and mouse, an internet enabled PS/2, and a nice 50 inch HDTV, and I'll be cooking with grease!

    That's what these companies realize. HDTV has monitor-like resolutions. And hell, why should I spend 2k for a 24 inch LCD (price pulled outta my ass - with left hand) when I can spend the same amount for a nice 50 inch 16:9 HDTV that will show me DVDs *and* be my computer monitor.

    Hell, I could watch the National Kickball Tournament[1] on 1/2 of the screen and surf on the second 1/2. I'd be happier than pigs in mud.

    [1] When was the last time you used "Kickball" in a sentence?

    HI Mom!
  • while i agree that microsoft has done some really nasty stuff in the past, has aol done anything besides being huge? this isnt a troll, i really havent followed aol that much and i am wondering what it is that they have done to be qualified as evil?

    use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
  • that page seems to chronicle aol's lax security and some stuff about them getting cracked by people capable of social engineering. this implies incompetence, but hardly justifies the term evil.

    use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
  • It all used to be so clear: a pc is a pc, and a game platform is a game platform.

    Nonsense. In the mid 80's, my brother and I sold my dad on the idea that we should get a Colecovision, because they were going to have an expansion keyboard which would turn it into a computer. He didn't want to get us a game machine, but he was much more receptive to getting us a computer. We got the Colecovision, but I don't know if they ever actually came out with the keyboard...

  • You're missing something. AOL is designed for your Grandmother who has no idea how to use a computer. It would be a potential nightmare for AOL support to have to explain to your Grandmother how to go to dial up networking yadda yadda yadda.

    So, they create their own adapters that they know how to manipulate and can make a really user friendly interface around them. Seems like a good idea to me.

    Or if we want to be paranoid, maybe AOL thought about using Microsoft's built in dial up networking, but M$ told them to go to hell, we're not going to include your proprietary protocol in our networking, but we will include ours! Oh and we're not going to tell you how to use ours to build your user friendly interface and control around.

    And AOL figures if your're smart enough to have another internet connection you're smart enough to figure out how to have AOL connect to it and leave your settings undisturbed. It's really not that hard.

    I highly doubt AOL said "Hey in Windows you can only have 4 adapters! Let's make our software require 2 so if you have anything more than a modem and a NIC in your system you're screwed!"
  • Once upon a time, it wasn't that far from $6.075.

    Some people got a standard $6/hr rate, but the norm was $8/hr during peak times, $4/hr for off-hours.

    Once upon a time, playing NeverWinter Nights on AOL, I had an average $400/month bill :(

    William
    --
    Lettering Art in Modern Use
  • I'm sorry, but after reading this, I've got to hope you're a troll. A virus causing a meltdown? Let me guess, the last piece of electronics you touched was a Commodore Pet, and you finally found the magic POKE sequence which could damage it.Because I gotta tell ya, there have been no consumer level PCs since then which would allow that. In fact, without a means for non-volatile storage, it would be impossible for a virus to do anymore than annoy the piss out of you by causing your web browser to crash.

    Damage the console? Please. I'm so glad I didn't have anything to drink before reading your post. The liquid could have damaged my keyboard after coming out my nose.

  • AOL on your PS2 or winCE on your PS2?

    AOL running under WinCE on your PS/2, of course.

  • PS/2 and MP3 (Score:4)

    by Monte ( 48723 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:08AM (#222113)
    Imagine what this could do if Sony opens up it's music IP for access over the PS/2. Of course there'd be no way to save the music (short of analog-recording from yer TV), but turning your game console into an on-demand jukebox might make it look pretty sweet to the consumer.

    Does the PS/2 have an ethernet port option?

  • Is better than the devil you don't know.

    Peter
    --
    www.alphalinux.org
  • maybe not AOL, but IBM has a mozilla port. [ibm.com]

    //rdj
  • Sony has a policy that they don't allow "their" music streamed. That's why at least one broadcast union is boycotting sony music: they wanna stream.

    //rdj
  • I think you're right on here -- the cube seems less like a computer than the ps2, in the same way that aol seems like real internet access. ps2 users will probably be more interested in their own isps than gamecube owners would be.

    There's three problems here, tho. First is exactly the non-computerness of the GC -- it's got no hard-drive, and i've read nothing of one, and last i checked, there's been no decision on modem v broadband. add this to the fact that us launch has been pushed to november, and gc isn't really a partner, yet.

    Problem two, and this isn't really a problem, is that there's no reason AOL can't still go after the cube. Lots of game developers release on multiple platforms, there's no reason to suppose that non-game app developers for consoles won't do the same.

    Finally, there's nintendo itself. You know how they are, what with their licensing and their stranglehold on developers and insane paranoia about the control they have on their product, its software library, and their brand. I love them, really i do, but i can't imagine trying to work with them to release an application.

    Sony's the easy initial win. Maybe AOL will go after gamecube later, but they've got a year before that even becomes an issue.

  • Oh, come on -- what did you expect? (Score:5)

    by Hnice ( 60994 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:33AM (#222118) Homepage
    Don't get me wrong -- I'm as creeped out as anyone -- last i checked, there are only like six companies left in the world, and they own all of the information, delivery infrastructure, and platforms, right? AOL and Sony -- esp when you consider that AOL/TW already has its own gigantic content base, and Sony already has one, and, well, that's got to be a sizable percentage of available viewing/listening/playing material under one (loosely-knit) roof.

    But I'd like to cut short any 'omigod, it's the corporate newworldorder supermegahyperconglomerate that's evil and will probably outlaw mp3, free speech, and free beer' talk. What, is Sony going to go with my local isp? Are they going to predispose their console to play well with Prodigy? Come on -- this just makes sense. For their box to compete with XBox, they need a standard, simple, widely-accepted, powerful brand as their internet access tool. AOL has like 90 % of the universe, probably including your mom, so condescend all you want, this was a no-brainer.

    So, again, don't get me wrong, every time something like this happens, it feels a little dirty, but if you believe that computers and consoles are becoming more and more alike, you believe that AOL must partner with a console manufacturer. XBox is out of the question, cause of MSN, and the gamecube is out, because Nintendo doesn't play well with 3d parties. So Sony it is. This is just another OEM deal, like Dell or Gateway or anything else. It would have been hopelessly naive to suppose that consoles would remain immune to the AOL invasion just because they sit under our tvs -- they've got hard-drives(well, ok, maybe by end of year), they'll have modems (someday), they're fair game.

  • AOL on your PS2 or winCE on your PS2?

    Take your pick!
  • "they do this so they can keep saying '4 million subscribers cant be wrong'"

    4 million? Try > 29 million. It's funny that you mention that half of their subscribers are imaginary. They are now giving away 1000 hours for 45 days. I'm not kidding. [aol.com]
  • How about controlling the news and entertainment, then owning the means to distribute that information, then only promoting your properties on that platform? Scary stuff.
    --
    OliverWillis.Com [oliverwillis.com]

  • Doesn't look like an exclusive agreement (Score:3)

    by flatrock ( 79357 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @06:04AM (#222122)
    This deal between AOL and Sony looks like it will help both of them expand thier markets. However, I didn't see anything that said this is an exclusive agreement. If the XBox takes off, AOL will likely want to have AOL on the XBox as well.

    The worst thing would be for AOL, the largest internet provider, and Sony, the largest game console company, teaming up to keep competitors out of the market.

  • It's "PS2" not "PS/2" (Score:3)

    by LordNimon ( 85072 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @07:24AM (#222123)
    The PS/2 was a line of computers from IBM back in the late 80's. Its distinguishing features were the MicroChannel bus and cable-free internal components. To avoid confusion, the abbreviation for PlayStation 2 is "PS2", not "PS/2".
    --
    Lord Nimon
  • Ah, but the problem there is that Sony is a recording company as well as a consumer electronics company, and as a result have been extremely slow at recognizing the market for MP3 devices. They don't want to grow one division while bankrupting the other. True, it'd be pretty sweet, but I'd expect Sony to drag their heels on something like that, regardless of what the consumer wants.
  • MS won't have the overheads of collaboration to worry about

    I'm not sure about that. From what I've read, there is a lot of infighting in the M$ ranks. Each group trys to out shine the others, and direct competition between product groups is not unusual.
  • Don't put two prima donnas in the same room. It is not a nice sight.
  • It was only $150mil of non-voting stock, which they have since sold.
  • Obviously the bad guy is the one who is winning... at least in this case.

  • Obligatory zealot blurb (Score:4)

    by Steeltoe ( 98226 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @06:34AM (#222129) Homepage
    That's an outright lie! Mozilla is not slow at all. Why on my 1.5 GHz Cryotech Athlon with 2Gb RAM and overclocked to 1.98 Ghz I notice no difference than any other browser. If you were a techie like me, you wouldn't fall for stupid adverts from Intel that says Pentium III will make your internet faster! That's impossible. Just remember to run the nightbuilds and you'll be allright.

    (Posted anonymously because I'm scared about losing my karma point.)

    - Steeltoe

  • Can't be right - my (standalone) DVD player has RGB output. And it's not alone, virtually every DVD player in the market that I know of outputs Composite, RGB & S-Video. Maybe that's only in the UK, but that doesn't seem very likely to me. Anyone else?

    Personally I wouldn't use anything except RGB, much better image quality than anything else I've tried.
  • Well, I can check it out, but, I mean, what have they done that was really bad? Doctoring books is one thing - but how are they hurting consumers?

    Again, not saying they're angels, but, so far, they are a far, far cry from MS anti-consumer behavior.

  • I think it may not be a success on the PlayStation 2 platform. The reason is simple: PS2 doesn't currently support higher-resolution TV's of both CRT and projection variety, which means not much improvement over WebTV now.

    One far-reaching idea about Xbox was that they designed the system to support even 1080i HDTV monitors and projection TV's. This will make surfing the Internet a far more pleasant experience than on PS2.

    But anyone who can afford HDTV now, or in the near future, will probably have the money (and therefore, maybe, the need) to buy a PC, and also a game system for the kids.

    So I spend a thousand bucks on PC and a PS2, including a high resolution monitor, or I can buy a PS2+AOL pack, plus thousands for an HDTV? I think the people this is targeting don't have that kind of money, this is more mainstream - just like AOL itself. Anyone "in the know" wouldn't want to use AOL anyway. That's not who they're targeting.

  • Re:aol evil. (Score:3)

    by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:48AM (#222133)
    How about controlling the news and entertainment, then owning the means to distribute that information,
    Certainly see the potential for evil in that combination, but still haven't seen it happen...
    then only promoting your properties on that platform?
    Please explain...what platform? What properties? So, sure, CNN shows AOL commercials...are you implying they don't show commercials for any other ISP or software companies? You think they'd give up that revenue on all of those networks? And if they did, anyone could slap them with an anti-competition lawsuit.

    I haven't heard anyone complaining except the people here, and I haven't heard any complaints that have actually stated AOL/Time Warner has actually done anything.

    I'm not saying I'm happy about mega-conglom-super-corporations, because the potential to be anti-consumer is great, but until they actually do something bad, I don't think we can label them as evil, yet.

    Of course, I'm no fan of:

    • AOL services (which apparently have ripped people off and mess up people's computers, but they did that before the merger anyway).
    • Warner's contribution to both the MPAA's case against DeCSS and RIAA's case against Napster.
    • AOL's trickery with instant messaging (which I don't use anyway, but the thought that they won't stick to a standard bothers me).
    But taken individually, it's not more than other large companies are guilty of, and I've not seen anything (yet) where the merger is actually giving them (anit-competitive) leverage where they didn't have it before.

    Again, I'm not saying they're angels (there's not one in the bunch, not even IBM or SGI), I'm saying I don't see how they get the "evil" label. If we label them evil, then every company must be evil.

  • Don't know which is worse (Score:5)

    by Christianfreak ( 100697 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:06AM (#222134) Homepage Journal
    While I can see this putting a real dent in M$ofts bottom line, Which is worse? AOL evil or M$oft evil? A friend of mine has a sticker that says "When choosing between to evils, I take the one I haven't tried before". I guess that applies in this case :)

    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • hmmm (Score:4)

    by vAMP ( 102914 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:08AM (#222135)
    I wonder if you will ever be able to get rid of AOL from the ps2 once its being installed;)
  • I currently work in the technology department of the Lebanon School District in Lebanon, PA (www.lebanon.k12.pa.us). The administration here is pushing us hard to use this AOL software, I'm doing everything in my power to convince the head of the IT department not to go near it. The software claims to offer a nice safe filtered sandbox for studnets, provide other resources for teachers and parents. Everything that this program does we can do with our current settup, plus we don't have to run around and install software on over 500 machines. The interenet in the district is already filtered heavly by Bess, and I'm affraid that the AOL software would only make it worse. Plus it would force-feed the students AOL. The information that I was given says nothing about buying new computers, just that the AOL software is designed for schools, and is free. I'm rather low on the totem pole here at the district, and the administration doesn't really want to listen to me.
    =\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\ =\
  • Why would M$ want AOL on their platform? They have their own MSN to stuff down people's throats.
  • Copy protected typing. Coming to a computer near you.
    ========================
    63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
    ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,

  • Mozilla (Score:5)

    by rograndom ( 112079 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:12AM (#222139) Homepage

    Hey, with Mozilla I think we've finally found a piece of software that can push the PSX2 to it's limits.

    *ducks*


    --
    andy j.
  • Something similar was tried before with WebTV...where is it now, I ask you? The fact that such a system would use AOL to connect will only add to it's lameness. Ever try to do something routine like send an e-mail attachment to an AOL user? AOL with all it's hype is still just a glorified purveyor of "shiny coasters". At least with a PC/M$/(noAOL), you have functionality and if you don't like M$ you can always try that penguin thingy...
  • Recursive: Adj. See Recursive

    That would be circular. Recursion has to have a terminating condition. I'm not very good at this but you could try something like:

    Recursive: Adj. If not understood, See Recursive.

    Cheers,

    Mike.
  • 31 x 24 = 744 hours in a month

    $9.95 monthly service fee, 5 hours free.

    $4490 / 739 = $6.075 per hour if you kept it on 24 hours a day.

    AOL was never that high.
  • See, you're looking at three of the scariest companies out there. Sony and AOLTW make massive amounts of money off of being gigantic conflicts of interest, and Microsoft is... Microsoft. I honestly don't know which I find scarier.

    (And no, I don't like Sony at all. I might buy a PlayStation2 from them, but I have no plans to ever buy, say, a Walkman again.)

    /Brian
  • I still don't quite get WinCE on the Dreamcast anyway -- it seems it wasn't widely used, so did it have any benefits to Average Joe Dreamcast Hacker?

    /Brian
  • [ Mindcraft ]

    That's true...when there's a specific definable problem and that problem actually exists.

    Microsoft seems to have learned it's lesson with the Mindcraft benchmarks; be vauge, where possible turn black into white and white into black, and put a seed of doubt in places where there are facts that back them up.

    Another point of the Consulting Times article is that a little focused propaganda can incite and distract attention from the real issues. That it takes some explaining to show that MS is pushing hooey just shows that they are having an impact. As a small example, we're not helping anyone here by writing and reading any of this!

    In this case, IBM has the real potential to make Microsoft's networking efforts as influential as Banyan Vines. That IBM uses open source, Linux, free software, or any other method -- substantial or wholely illusion -- doesn't matter one hoot. That IBM is bold enough to try is enough of a threat to MS.

    [ software as a commodity ... MS foiled in the long run ]

    Software is a commodity, no doubt. I'd include in this many commercial programs. A quick check of the made-for-bargin-bin software section is all that is needed to verify this -- and it is not just games anymore. On the flip side, to call open/free software a commodity is absurd; it's 'sold' in a nearly infinite volume for largely the same 'unit cost'. Having said that, regaurding open/free software as a commodity still has practical utility.

    If a wholesale switch from MS Office to free/open alternatives happened today, there would be some pain but that would largely go away within a year since there would be quite a few highly motivated people added to the existing open projects. That MS still can charge substantial amounts on a per-user basis is amazing and shows that the grip they have is quite strong. If MS didn't have a monopoly, they would not be able to charge what they do.

    Because of that control, and the subsequent lowered interest in the alternatives, it will be well over a year before most companies that use MS apps will see the switch to alternatives as a possibility. In one year, quite a bit can change...so no, I don't see MS's failure in desktop apps or server software as a given.

  • Add IBM to the top of that list... (Score:5)

    by Spoing ( 152917 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:46AM (#222153) Homepage
    jadrien writes "As the war for the common denominator access platform continues, the only two players that scare Microsoft team up.

    I'd add IBM to the top of that list. After reading this article from Consulting Times [consultingtimes.com] I have a new perspective on the whole Mundie distraction.

    In sum: MS doesn't care about 'Linux'. It cares about control and threats to that control.

    By distracting the open source, free software, or Linux advocates it zaps strength from IBM's efforts to rally them to make stronger technology that MS doesn't control...and thus slows IBM's own efforts. MS needs some time to keep companies from moving away from Microsoft-based software, and to institute more MS-controled technologies such as .net.

    Anything that can impact IBM's efforts to build open source or Linux support will also slow the efforts of HP, Compaq, Dell, and others that understand the business costs of the current Microsoft monopoly.

  • It all used to be so clear: a pc is a pc, and a game platform is a game platform. So now they take a game platform, add a mouse, a keyboard, a harddisk and a LCD display and hey presto! We've got a pc. Now as long as Microsoft is at battle with AOL we can be sure that Windows, Office and other Microsoft stuff will not be ported to the PS2
  • Another problem was that AOL's newsreader had some stupid maximum like 32K per message. If people didn't split their encoded binaries into these ridiculously small parts, much AOL flamage would ensue.

    But, be honest. The only reason the Usenet problem "went away" was that nobody tells newbies about Usenet anymore. Which means that most AOL users don't even know it exists, so the rest of the world doesn't see them.

    I was on AOL briefly in *1991*, and most of the users were complete morons then, depsite the fact the online world was considerably more obscure. I have no doubt that the AOL message boards are currently just as full of inarticulate posts as Usenet was during the endless september.
  • AOL. No question. WinCE on the Dreamcast was livable (most games never used it), but AOL's extensive tracking features? *groan*

  • Right idea, wrong market (Score:3)

    by Fervent ( 178271 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:33AM (#222164)
    This is the right idea for AOL. Clearly they need a device that already has in-roads into a majority of computer-savvy homes (if not now with the PS2, when more are sold). But it's clearly the wrong market.

    The right market would have been GameCube.

    The demographics for Playstation are older males, savvy about AOL's "features", who may occasionally use Instant Messenger. The demographics for GameCube are young males (and females) are actual fanatics of the "real" AOL (subscribers) who aren't willing to investigate any of AOL's privacy/tracking "features".

    I would hedge my bet, also, that the AOL package will pretty much require the hard drive (and the ethernet card/modem) which is going to make this an expensive upgrade for some. Sony is in a pickle that they couldn't get both pieces of the hardware in the basic set (as Microsoft is doing -- we'll see how well that pans out). But they will probably have to offset the purchase with rebates which will require -- you guessed it -- long-term subscriptions to AOL.

    No matter what way you slice it, AOL wins in some capacity. They should have gone for GameCube though for the kill.

  • Somehow the idea of networked play for the Sony PS2 over the AOL network is a little frightening.

    Check out the Vinny the Vampire [eplugz.com] comic strip

  • Why doesn't AOL team up with Apple? Or merge with them?

    Because M$ bought 10% of Apple to keep them from going out of business. This provided a nice example of 'competition' for them to fend of the DOJ for a while. If Apple or AOL thought for a second to try this M$ would register to sell their portion of Apple stock - causing the price to drop through the floor - they would announce a halt to Apple MS Office && Apple IE. This would be too much like real competition - M$ would put an end to it quick.

    That is why you will never see any real 'dynamic innovation' rewards from the Apple / WinTel PC paradox - there is collusion up the arse.

  • Or how about adding in 2 adapters to your system, in addition to your Dialup Adapter, you now have a AOL adapter or AOL Dialup adapter (and in some cases both).

    I have never used AOL in my life, but had to support systems (DSL installs) that someone was attempting to install a NIC or DSL modem into, but the system would start to ignore adapters after the 4th - which became a huge hassle.

    Of course I know this is partially Microsloth's fault for having such poor networking support in 9x, but you'd think AOL could understand these limitations and maybe work with just the Dialup Adapter.

    But its AOL we're talking about here, that'd be too difficult.

  • Re:Don't know which is worse (Score:3)

    by ichimunki ( 194887 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:34AM (#222171)
    What, doesn't Sony get to be considered in the race for great evilness? Sony belongs to both the MPAA and the RIAA and unlike AOL-Time-Warner, they produce not only creative works which they try to keep from Fair Use, but they also manufacture the crippled hardware that actually does CSS and region coding in the first place.

  • New route for people onto the internet (Score:4)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:13AM (#222180)
    Aol and Sony make a good team. They're both very good at meeting the needs of consumers, and both have a great track record when it comes to consumer marketting. While MS are taking over the universe it makes sense for them to join forces.

    Where this is also advantagous is in creating a new route into the internet for loads of people that previously couldn't afford a full on PC.

    I run a talker, uberworld.org [uberworld.org], and I see lots of the newer people on the web on a daily basis. I reckon this will help a great deal.

    --

  • Re:Why Sony? (Score:4)

    by Auckerman ( 223266 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @10:50AM (#222184)
    "Why doesn't AOL team up with Apple?"

    Apple's whole corporate image relies on making the customer feel like Apple helps them express themselves, with out the hardware/software technical issues getting in the way.

    AOL's whole image is about making you think the Internet is a terrible complicated world of Porn, Violence, and Evil "Free Thinkers" that you have to be protected from.

    Apple tries to make you feel smart, AOL reaffirms your belief in your own stupidity. Two mutually exclusive ways of treating a customer.

  • Jeffrey Dahmer was not a mass murder he was a serial killer.. Timothy McVeigh is a mass murder, but NOT a serial killer... YES there is a difference!

  • Re:Consumer electronics suck. (Score:5)

    by pcosta ( 236434 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @06:44AM (#222190)
    Wrong. The DVD consortium agreed to let progressive DVD output a Macrovision free signal, simply because Macrovision won't work on a progressive output (besides, there are no consumer devices that can record a progressive signal anyway). The PS2 has a component cable already (I use it to connect to my TV) and will have a VGA cable when the Linux kit is released.
  • While I think it's good that someone is trying to compete with Microsoft, I'm a little concerned about how easily two of the largest corporate behemoths on the planet have formed a partnership.

    Does anyone else think that this could be overtones to a possible merger? And does it scare the hell out of anyone that if it does?
  • I'm getting kinda tired of all the AOL bashing. You know who uses AOL? Clueless users who want to e-mail pictures of their kids to Granny and 13 year olds in chat rooms. They've made the software easy to use on purpose. I work tech support for a medium-sized ISP, and we've gotten a few users from AOL. And they were idiots. But ya know what? If they want to use a garbage front-end to a content controlled ISP, they have the right to choose that, or choose any other ISP if they so desire. Eighty percent of our customers think of computers as televisions with typewriters attached. When you or I want dialup, all we want are a fucking phone number, login, password and maybe DNS. These average Americans want to see a nicely integrated, easy to understand front-end. They want to see the AOL logo everywhere because it gives them confidence that they are connected through a famous major ISP. AOL versus *real* ISP is like apple pie versus tiramisu- AOL's American as shit, but tiramisu's better in many people's eyes. But 80 percent of people don't wanna try it because it's different and strange. They want the security that AOL *APPEARS* to provide. No pity for AOL users, and no love for AOL haters.

  • Sounds familiar... (Score:3)

    by Rick the Red ( 307103 ) <Rick,The,Red&gmail,com> on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @09:20AM (#222206) Journal
    Haven't we seen this before? [techtite.com]

  • The diabolical trio goes to war! (Score:5)

    by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:12AM (#222207)
    So Astoroth and Baphomet have finally ganged up on Lucifer !

    This will be interesting in deed! Especially the Slashdot comments. The anti evil corporation fanatics will have an interesting time figuring out who is the bad guy in this fight.
  • Microsoft (or is it just Gates?) has a major share of Dreamworks SKG. Microsoft definitely has an 'in' on any games spin-offs from Dreamworks movies.

    The world of 'Rollerball' gets closer every day.
    -----------------

  • X-box (Score:3)

    by pr0nbot ( 313417 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:12AM (#222211)
    Let's not get too excited:

    MS will have their own console soon

    MS will be able to avoid many teething problems by watching what AOL & Sony are doing and then copying them

    MS won't have the overheads of collaboration to worry about

    The hype surrounding X-box will mean a good user base of gamers (&& their families) to sell into

  • Yeah, but not AOL 6.0! Imagine all those new, nifty AOL features you're missing out on by using an old version, like . . . like . . . like . . . ummm . . . well, nevermind.
    Smilies!!! don't forget about the new smilies!!! you've got see how cool
    >:O and
    :-D
    look as little yellow faces!!!

    God bless those Albino Ninjas...
  • At least for awhile there though AOL was nice enough to pu the billing process almost completely on the client-side so paying the hourly fee became almost optional :).
  • If you don't mind 'My First Application' looks, smiley faces and 'bing-bong' sounds, then that sounds great :)

  • Re:Why Sony? (Score:3)

    by Tachys ( 445363 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @05:16AM (#222233)
    We do not want to be associated with AOL users.

  • It's Actually Quite Horrendous... (Score:3)

    by Decedence ( 451940 ) on Tuesday May 15, 2001 @08:53AM (#222241) Homepage
    ..to see Slashdot users backing a proposal like this! AOL is a giant corporation which piggy-fucks just about any and everyone's machine it can. Sony is a consumer electronics dynsasty, who got lucky with the PSX, and is now hoping to rule with the PSX2. But, it runs Linux, so every things okay? Sweet mother mary of God what happened to sanity. Game consoles are perhaps the next generation of connected-computing. Through this new boxes, presumably half the cost of a PC, many home-users will view the world of the internet, and those the world in general. If AOL and Sony band together on this outing, you will begin to see the world's larget content whore providing systems for the world's largest profit vixen. In short, just another Microsoft with bigger balls, and squinty eyes. The fact remains it doesn't matter who has the monolopy, no one should have it. The GameCube is likely to remain a niche player, as was the N64 (Ninentdo is the Apple of game consoles), while the PSX2, despite repetitive gameplay, and various hardware issues, will likely just slightly lead in the Game Console war to be appearing at local theaters in 2002. However, with AOL now providing service to PSX2 first, and the some 4 million customers strong in adverts that can not be ignored so easily, Sony has positioned itself to push the PSX2 into the laps of consumers before the XBox hits the streets. Once you have 60% market saturation, you're as good as gold. If the XBox manages to survive it will only be because Microsoft can dump millions into the project without blinking an eye, until it survives, where other companies are forced to let go of unprofitable dogs, M$ can strive on them. So, at the end of 2002, we now have two vast monopolies controlling what about 4-10 million, see, and hear. Sweet merciful crap.
  • Sony is not crazy, or even stupid, for this venture. Micro$oft is out to try and conquer another market in their never ending quest to rule the universe. How many of us gamers are out there using Win9X purely for DirectX support? Sony is smart. They have realized that the Online market is not their Forte. So where does the intelligent Japaneese giant go when they need net support in the US? well, who makes the most money off the Internet in the US. You have a phone line? you can have AOL, thus if you have a PS2, you can connect. Microshaft already has the MSN, which they can tap into no problem. Sony is not going to MSN, so there is one other choice. Good luck Sony, it could suck, but then again, it could hurt them, but hey, gamers want PS2, who cares about the connectivity requirements? Are their people camping out for Xbox? we'll see

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