ReplayTV 4000 Series Shares TV Over Net 142
REden writes " ReplayTV announces their ReplayTV 4000 Series networkable PVR. Features include video sharing between LAN attached Replays, sending a show to another Replay over the internet, and automatic commercial skip. Prices start at $700 for a 40 hour unit and max out at $2000 for a 320 hour unit. ReplayTV guide service included. Units are scheduled to ship November 14th." 320 hours. I can't imagine holding on to that much TV - but space is cheap, so, eh, why not?
Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:3, Redundant)
Maybe I had better buy one before it's too late.
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:1)
And there is no way anyone could sue them for enabling commercial skipping...that's like saying someone could sue Sony because I can pause their VHS recorder during commercials, thus eliminating any possibility of having to watch advertisements.
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:3, Informative)
Q. How do I share television programs with my friends?
A. If your friend has a ReplayTV 4000, they can "talk" to each other over the broadband Internet connections.
It sounds as if you need a ReplayTV unit at each end, but capturing what they send to each other would be trivial. The datastream is probably encrypted, but you have to wonder how long that would last.
-dair
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:3, Informative)
"Talking" in this context might mean sharing programs, but it might also mean sharing programming data only or some other lame restriction. The fact is that, the way the law looks now, a Court could well find that there would have to be a "substantial non-infringing use" for the sharing feature to make it legal. In the context of the ReplayTV units (which I love -- I own one myself) that use would be hard to find. ReplayTV units record essentially only copyrighted material, so the sharing function (outside of a home LAN) would seem to have little non-infringing purpose.
Within a home LAN, an argument could be made that the purpose is "space shifting" -- making legally copied content available in other places in the home for the person who made the legal copy. This is an extension of the "time shifting" rationale used to justify the existence of VCRs in the Supreme Court's seminal Betamax case. "Space shifting" was also found to be a fair use (by a lower court) in the RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia (Rio) case, and is one reason that MP3 players are not actionable.
But the space shifting argument has not been extended in recent cases (either in New York or California, where most of this gets tried, see the various DeCSS cases) so I think the "sharing" feature, if it really does allow people to share copyrighted content with friends in distant locations, would be fertile ground for a lawsuit.
Note that, much as I love 'em, ReplayTV has backed off its promises in the past. It originally told buyers that their personal viewing information would NEVER be collected or sold. It is now clear that such information IS being collected for the my.replaytv.com service. That's fine -- good, even, my.replaytv.com is very cool -- it just happens to be a clear, unannouced change in policy.
Now if they put 802.11b in the thing, I'd pre-order right now.
Yes it does! (Score:2)
"The ReplayTV 4000 is so connected it allows you to share recorded programs with other friends and family that have ReplayTV 4000s. And with its broadband connectivity, sending and receiving programs is a breeze. So, if you forgot to record the last Friends episode, just ask your Mom to send it to you!"
THIS ROCKS!
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:1)
i've got a lot of digitized mst3k episodes i'd love to watch this way.
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:2)
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:2)
They only share episodes which haven't yet been released on video, which makes it slightly more legal. (It might even be entirely legal, since the MST3K people encouraged fans to share tapes.)
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:2)
If there is an ethernet port on that thing, someone will figure out how to make your computer look like another unit. Patience, Grasshopper.
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:1)
This is directly from the ReplayTV website [replaytv.com]:
This will be shut down faster than you can say iCraveTV [slashdot.org]! (and that was legal under the laws of the country in which it was offered).
Re:Headed for a lawsuit? (Score:1)
Quoting from the specs PDF [replaytv.com]:
-
Now you can share media within and outside the home, access videos over the Internet and manage your home entertainment.
-
Video sharing inside and outside the home.
- Video sharing with friends and family owning ReplayTV 4000 units
I'd say that makes it clear that you can send video over the Internet to another one of these gizmos.Looks great (Score:1)
As for advertisers, I think that advertising on television is going to adapt to be more like advertising on movies. Remember Drew Barrymore holding that Nokia phone in Charlie's Angels? Expect to see a Classic Coca-Cola poster in Joey's room, Monica doing the laundry while using Tide, etc. You see some of this now, but it will be more prevelant in the future. As long as stations don't do stupid things like TNN's hijacking the bottom of the screen, I won't care.
Re:Looks great (Score:1)
>is going to adapt to be more like advertising
>on movies. Remember Drew Barrymore holding
>that Nokia phone in Charlie's Angels?
Interesting concept... I can't wait to see them digitally airbrush in a t-shirt for "Jose's wigmaking" on captain kirk and ads for dominos pizza on the nature channel.
Re: ReplayTV 4000 Series Announced (Score:4, Interesting)
Sean
Re: ReplayTV 4000 Series Announced (Score:2, Insightful)
Better still, can advertisers sue all those people going to the bathroom during commercials?
Re: ReplayTV 4000 Series Announced (Score:1)
Product sounds intriguing, I hope is doesn't have any crappy DRM stuff built in.
Sharing over the internet!? (Score:1)
I'll tell you why not! (Score:5, Informative)
Especially when NVidia is coming out with a product that will run on my PC and support as large a HDD as I can afford!
NVIDIA Personal Cinema Redefines PC Home Entertainment [yahoo.com]
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:2, Informative)
- Up to 320 hours using MPEG 2 video encoding
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:1)
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:1)
One of the key features (to me) about this new NVidia board is that it includes a TV remote that works with your PC, so you can control the device just as if it was a set-top box.
From the press release "Personal Cinema's Intelligent TV feature allows users to pause live TV, instantly replay an exciting scene, skip over a commercial, or automatically program the PC to record future shows or movies. "
That's what has me excited.
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:2, Interesting)
320 hours = 320 gigabytes = $800 (Score:2)
in these hour ratings. People who actually have
these systems prefer 1.5-2 GB per hour for higher
quality.
At about $200 for a 80 GB disk, thats about $800,
presuming the system ships with enough controller
capacity.
Re:320 hours = 320 gigabytes = $800 (Score:3, Insightful)
And the most aggressive compression rates, too! But being able to select the compression rate you want really is a big win for the consumer and manufacturer. The manufacturer doesn't get flamed that they've made a hard choice which either makes a poor quality video, or doesn't have enough recording space.
Get the cheap version. Hack on another disk.
Re:320 hours = 320 gigabytes = $800 (Score:2)
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Interesting)
Esp. since I expect someone to figure out how to send shows to a Linux box rather then another ReplayTV, so you don't need to store everything on the Replay, just whatever you don't have time to transfer.
There is some advantage to having a dedicated device with (I assume) a real OS. Maybe not such an issue if your PC runs Linux, but I'm expecting it will be a while until you can use the NVidia with ease to capture TV shows (including tuning the cable box) under Linux. I have the competing product (TiVo) and it has never ever crashed. It has lost power a few times, but never had some random DLL blow up and cause me to miss a TV show.
Cunning... (Score:2, Informative)
Now why can't I have one in England?
Only a matter of time.. (Score:1)
Re:Cunning... (Score:1)
Re:Cunning... (Score:2, Interesting)
But that might be sufficient for peer-to-peer transmission; if I send it to 15 people, who each send it to 15 people, etc. Or does it have some sort of serial copy protection, so that you can only send it once and your friend can't send on your copy to anyone else?
How closely... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How closely... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How closely... (Score:1)
But I suppose there is someone out there who can provide a link to a similar project. The box actually had quite "low"-tech components.
Re:How closely... (Score:1)
Go to the TiVo Message Board [avsforum.com] and search the underground forum (maybe the archives, this is an old topic) for PAL. The hack only works on software version 1.3 if I remember correctly. The newer TiVos have the file checking PROM code and will go into a reboot loop if you try to do this. And no, you can't just flash the PROM to an older version, it's been tried.
At that price... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, there won't be a nifty display (unless you buy a LCD panel) but you won't be limited by their design.
I know it's been in the discussion lists earlier, but... an AMD box runs around 250$, add a 200$ capture/ MPEG compression card and you are up to 500 with a 40 gig HD. Thats alot of space... there is still programming issues, but... could be conquerd if the desire was there
Re:At that price... (Score:1)
Not for a DVR. At the lowest quality, a 40 gig drive in a TiVo will give you about 40 hours. At the highest quality, you're looking at around 10-15 hours. Once you really start using, you'll find that space very quickly runs out.
Re:At that price... (Score:2)
Sure, you could do the same thing with a PC. But you're always going to have to be futzing with it. The 'barrier to entry' for a normal consumer to make his own device is the convenience factor.
Next week: "Replay sued by world+dog" (Score:3, Funny)
Video Server (Score:1)
But I wonder if not just the companies advertising on the networks but the networks them selves are not going to like this box. You could start serving up shows to anyone who wanted to watch them over the internet/Lan.
I do think they are giving the consumer what they want but it is not what the Networks want!
-S
Holy cow! (Score:3, Insightful)
Tivo has always been chicken to try anything like this, and it looks like it's going to bite 'em now that somebody else has the guts to do it. Why would you ever buy a unit now that didn't allow commercial skipping and content sharing?
It's probably too good to be true, though-- I imagine that this will be sued into oblivion before 20 units leave the stores. *sigh*
Re:Holy cow! (Score:3)
Sure you can, buy one and you'll miss a lot of the TiVo's scheduling features. The new "conflict catcher" is an improvement, but no session pass manager (for non-TiVo owners that lets you set up in advance which shows are more important, so if there is a schedule change the show that is most important will be recorded.
That isn't to say that TiVo's scheduling is the end all. Both units could do better padding. TiVo could do even better with show tracking (yes I said new episodes of Sopranos are more important the The Practice, but since The Practice only shows up on Sunday and Sopranos all week, it "should" be able to figure out that recording Practice at 9 then Sopranos at 11 would be better then doing the simple greedy algo). Of corse ReplayTV isn't even good enough to complain about that yet :-)
ReplayTV is also more irritating in the way it manages the disk space. You set aside disk for each show you want, so you can miss episodes of things you want even though there is ample free space. On the other hand that manages to deal with marathons without resorting to "Save at most N" on the TiVo (and "save at most" has similar problems to Replay's pre-allocate per show method).
Yes. But it is a harder sell now. Before TiVo's better scheduling was enough to make it a clear winner. Now it depends. Being able to move shows to a PC would win me over, moving between Replay's is not as exciting (but since it is likely that someone will manage to figure out how to make a PC accept the shows....). Commercial autoskip is nice, but not a super huge deal to me. It may be to others.
If sending shows around is seamless enough (and I doubt it is just yet) it can be a lot better then two tuners (like MS UTV, or the Direct TiVo with the 2.5 software). Want two tuners, buy two ReplayTVs, want 4 tuners? Buy four.
I'm glad someone has done it. It will be harder for TiVo to not do it now. The big questions is which happens first: TiVo gets networking, or ReplayTV gets better scheduling. Until one of those things happens it is a hard choice either way!
Good point-- no season pass manager sucks. (Score:2)
Without a way to prioritize your "record all" stuff, these things quickly become a giant pain to use. Just try getting a season pass to the simpsons and anything else, and watch how quickly you get conflicts. Being able to prioritize is nice. I had to get my Tivo replaced under warranty (fried modem, of course) and use the old 1.3 software (no way to set show priorities) for a few days-- it was absolutely impossible to get it to record all of my shows, since some episodes always overlap with others. (Simpsons/Junkyard Wars, for example)
As much as I bitch, I do love my Tivo-- but I hope this is a swift kick in the rear for Tivo and that we see ethernet-enabled, commercial-skipping, internet-show-sharing, remotely-programmable, 480p-output Tivos with 320 hours of storage space in the near future.
Re:Good point-- no season pass manager sucks. (Score:2)
Well it does let you choose what wins in a conflict, it might be fine grained then (TiVo isn't -- you can set the new show to beat all old shows, none of the old shows, or not go at all -- to get anything in between you have to visit the SPM, and watch the "Please Wait" icon for a bit). So it might be better then TiVo's 1.3 software, I'm sure it can't be as good as the 2.0 software without a SPM.
I'm also not sure if it has wishlists, and I know it doesn't have suggestions. Not as important as the SPM though.
I hope so, but I'm guessing the commercial-skipping is not coming anytime soon as they are trying to get money from advertisers (selling the iPreview stuff, and telescoping commercials). Show sharing, and seemless show sharing (making N ReplayTVs, or TiVos act as one unit with N tuners -- on Now Showing list, one ToDo list, one place to set a wishlist or pass and have the TiVo or Replay work out who records it, and what disk it lives on) would be enough to convince me to upgrade.
Hopefully TiVo catches up with sharing, or Replay catches up with scheduling. Either would make me buy again, even in this economy :-)
Re:Good point-- no season pass manager sucks. (Score:1)
Yes, Replay has wishlists. In fact, it had them before Tivo did. That was one of the main reasons I got Replay instead of Tivo two years ago.
About prioritizing: I find with the Replay the best way to go is to use what they call "non guaranteed" programs for nearly everything. That lets the Replay manage the disk space just like Tivo does. You only set "guaranteed" for those programs that you ABSOLUTELY gotta record, like a live broadcast that will never be repeated. If you follow that, you rarely have to deal with conflicts, though occasionally it might not record exactly what you thought it would.
Re:Good point-- no season pass manager sucks. (Score:1)
Cool, I didn't know.
Um, the whole point is for me to tell it what I want, how much I want it, and to never deal with it again. "it might not record exactly what you thought" sounds a whole lot like "the car may not take you to your work place, it might take you to someone else's"
For example, I kind of liked the sitcom Rossanne. I have a wishlist for it. It airs about 8 times a day. If it ever causes me to lose an episode of West Wing or ER I'm going to be really really pissed off (even if it is because the network moved one or both shows around!)
I kind of like Star Trek Deep Space Nine now that I actually manage to catch it, so I have a wish list for it too, it's more important then many shows, but less important then others. I'll be pissed if I get rossane and not DS9. I'll be pissed if I get DS9 and not (new) ER -- again even if the conflict is because one or both networks moved the shows.
I like West Wing a lot, but I like it less then ER. If the two are ever on at the same time, I want ER. I'll be pissed if West Wing gets recorded (unless the ER is a re-run, if it is and West Wing is new, I want West Wing). Even if one or both the shows are at a different time because of a special, or a schedule change.
My wife likes Gilmore Girls, so we record that too, if it is new, and doesn't conflict with West Wing, or ER, but we do get it rather then Rossane.
The TiVo deals with all of that because it doesn't have non-guaranteed/guaranteed, it has a numbered list. If I want ER (first-run-only) no matter what, I move it up to the top slot. If I want West Wing (first-run-only) almost as much I put it in the second slot. Rossane goes down around number 28.
Like most GUI things this is actually easier to do then to explain. And once done you never miss a show (unless it is to catch one you like more). It's not a minor thing. If it isn't real close to 100% it is way less useful. If it is real close something like To Do and Tivo's history (which is mis-named because it includes future events like "Won't record DS9 "Tribbles Again" wednsday at 10:00PM because it conflicts with a higher priority show ER "Wackyness with a Spleen") can help bridge the gap, but it requires a little effort (like for ToDo remembering that not seeing a show on Tuesday might be an issue -- you start to lose track of what days and times and networks things are on very quickly once you mostly don't need to know!! or for history having lots of "normal" conflicts will hide the abnormal ones).
It would be even better if I could say "DS9 after 1995 is in slot 7, before 1995 is in slot 40", but you can't do that. Yet.
If it sounds like I'm a TV addict, well, sort of I am. But I'm more just interested in simple problems that turn insanely complex, and scheduling to catch TV shows turns out to be one of them. Grab one of the XML show schedules some time and code up a storm. It's really a challenge!
P.S. I'm not belittling your Replay, before TiVo's 2.0 software Replay did a lot of stuff TiVo didn't, and even now it does do some things TiVo doesn't (and once the new boxes hit Replay will do a whole lot of stuff TiVo doesn't -- for at least six months, maybe years). Depending on how important "those things" are either unit could be a good choice.
Re:Holy cow! (Score:2)
Re:Holy cow! (Score:2)
Yes you can, but it seems more likely that TiVo will change things that will break this. In part because they don't want to piss off their partners (they also don't want to piss off their customers, some of which do this, so it is a hard choice for them). In part because those programs rely on the internal structure of files on the TiVo which might be changes for reasons that are completely unrelated to wanting to break the hack. (For example the much rumored VBR in 2.5)
Sonic Blue is less likely to change the way ReplayTVs send to each other because that would make a new one unable to send to an old one.
doesn't look like it will be mainstream (Score:2, Interesting)
from the faq...
Q. I don't have a home network. Will I need to get one?
A. Yes. ReplayTV 4000's are enabled by an Ethernet connection only. There are also all kinds of incredible features that work only when your ReplayTV is connected to your PC. But don't worry, home networks are relatively inexpensive and easy to install. And, to make this even easier, ReplayTV is providing, for a limited time, a choice of promotional offers including a Free NETGEAR Home Network (a $100 value), with the purchase of an RTV4080, RTV4160 or RTV4320.
The fact that you can bypass commercials still will affect a very limited number of users. Yes, home networks are relatively inexpensive (less than $2000), but your average consumer will not want to set up a firewall/router and a home network just to watch TV. Looks like the mainstream is still bound to low quality "VHS" technology for a little while longer.
Re:doesn't look like it will be mainstream (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:doesn't look like it will be mainstream (Score:2, Insightful)
If you just wanted to connect between two ReplayTVs to share the movies, couldn't you just use a crossover cable? That's relatively inexpensive. Or do you need the PC in order to manage the transfers?
who watches 320 hours of TV? (Score:4, Interesting)
from night to day or to weekends etc, I'd need
a maximum of 20-30 hours on the laziest weeks.
I have seven four-hour tapes now for this purpose,
and rarely time shift ten hours a week.
I suppose the other 300 hours could be for
archiving, but there isn't that much I'd want.
I'd guestimate 100 hours would satisfy all
but the hard core vegetables.
Re:who watches 320 hours of TV? (Score:2)
Re:who watches 320 hours of TV? (Score:1)
If you don't like some MPEG artifacts, you'll record at a higher quality. ( 17 hours )
You can also take an entire series you don't watch during the main season and watch it over the summer.
Another feature of a PVR is you tell it what you like to watch ( Replay: Themes,Zones, Tivo: Thumbsup/down ) and it records things you *MAY* be interested in.
When you sit down at your TV, you have 320 hours of revolving programing to *CHOOSE FROM*, not necessarily watch.
Robert
Re:who watches 320 hours of TV? (Score:1)
320 hours at "standard" (low) quality mode
160 hours at "medium" quality mode
106 hours at "high" quality mode
While that may still seem like a lot of time, I would have killed for that much space during the last Olympics broadcast.
Also, another justification for such large capacities is that over time, you find yourself watching much less "live" TV and much more of what you have set up to record.
depends upon the television (Score:2)
hawk
Deciphering the Marketing Speak (Score:4, Funny)
Q. How does ReplayTV use my Ethernet connection?
A. ReplayTV uses the high-speed Ethernet connection to connect to your home network. This means that your ReplayTV is now connected to your PC and to the Internet. If you have more than one ReplayTV, they'll be connected to each other, too. This means, you can now share recorded programming between multiple ReplayTV's within your home, access new television content through your PC via the Internet, and even share programs with friends who also own ReplayTV 4000s. The Ethernet connection can also be used to transfer digital photos from your PC to your ReplayTV and once on your ReplayTV, you can watch digital slide shows on your television.
OK, this stops just short of saying, "Yes, you can record all those Simpson reruns on ReplayTV, then copy them to the hard drive on your PC for archival/editing/sharing with the entire world", but it seems like that would be a logical use as well. Then again, logic rarely plays a part in copyright/IP law. What do you guys think, would that sort of thing be possible with this unit, or do they have some built-in protection against it (i.e., only copying to other ReplayTV units)? And if so, how long before the MPAA comes a-knockin?
Re:Decyphering the Marketing Speak (Score:2)
I also wonder, if instead of getting your video feed off the air you got it from your DVD player (or the DVD drive of your PC - since the devices aparently will shares data fairly seemlessly), couldn't this quickly become the ultimate DVD ripping device? (pardon me - I mean DVD backup device - soley for personal use with DVDs I actually own.) I mean it would go through a decompression/recompression cycle, but it would stay in digital format the whole time, certainly adequate to make a fairly good VCD copy of a DVD.
Also, with your ReplayTV connected to your PC can you burn the files to CD then mail the disc to your friend (who I assume would have to run the CD off their PC and view it on their own ReplayTV due to ReplayTV's own encryption/compression) instead of sharing it over the Internet? (I'm asking whether this would be technically feasible, I agree the MPAA will have its own opinion as to whether it is legally feasible.)
Re:Decyphering the Marketing Speak (Score:2)
I also wonder, if instead of getting your video feed off the air you got it from your DVD player (or the DVD drive of your PC - since the devices aparently will shares data fairly seemlessly), couldn't this quickly become the ultimate DVD ripping device? (pardon me - I mean DVD backup device - soley for personal use with DVDs I actually own.) I mean it would go through a decompression/recompression cycle, but it would stay in digital format the whole time, certainly
adequate to make a fairly good VCD copy of a DVD.
Not unless you have a better different DVD player and TV than most of us.
The best quality video format that comes out of the back of my DVD player is S-video, i.e., analog. My TiVo accepts S-video input and provides S-video output, despite the internal digital storage format. There's D/A and A/D conversion happening a lot. The only device I have that produces native digital video output is my camcorder with IEEE-1394. Everything else talks via analog signals, even if the internals are digital.
Likewise, the best quality input into my TV is S-video (also analog).
I've seen a few new TVs with 480p and 1080i input jacks of late, but I am not familiar with the details of these digital formats. Likewise, I haven't seen any DVD players or satellite TV receivers that have digital video output jacks.
I've become a lot more aware of some of the limitations in current consumer electronics since I recently purchased (and upgraded) a TiVo. It's a wonderful improvement over VHS, except for disk space limitations and archiving.
In order to overcome the archive problem (and the device specific playback problem that I think is looming) my next venture will be looking at video capture on the PC.
arrg! whether to be an early adapter (Score:1)
my own personal example in the dvr world, just within the last week!
but how often have i seen a cool item, gone out and been severely disappointed by promises not met. take this latest tivo dual receiver instance. the website makes claims of great features that were available in the latest update that happened in august.
i've got to get this! after crawling through my attic and installing the second line from my dish (hot fun in the summer) i hook up the system and anxiously await the firmware update. no firmware, only tivo programming, hmmm.
call customer support, they say, call sony (the maker of my new dual system.) sony tells me that tivo had to pull the firmware update since it didn't work. i ask, any news on an e.t.a. for release to make the system work as advertised? no.
so, i call tivo. customer support there lets me know not to worry, they're working on it and most likely they'll have it out, hopefully, before summer is over. i say, well, summer ends in about 3 weeks, do you have a more specific estimate? no. i ask if there is anywhere on the website that states the delay on the firmware update? no. i explain how i purchased the lastest dual receiver with the belief that it would work based on the information on the tivo website that said it would. did he understand this? yes. i said, okay, just wanted to state the obvious, thank you for your time.
ah, what to do? if it wasn't for us throwing our money at the latest gadgets... uhm, where would we throw it?
adapter, adopter... hehe (n/m) (Score:1)
Digital Cable? (Score:1, Redundant)
Plus why do I have to rent my digital converter box from the cable company, why don't they just standardise the format so we can have digital cable ready TVs, VCRs, and now PVRs.
The DirectTV people get to have Tivos built into their recievers.
Blah... My rant for today.
Re:Digital Cable? (Score:1)
First off, the digital signal is encrypted by the cable company. One good thing about DirecTV is, no matter where the customer is, they will use the same decryption. That is not the case with digital cable, certian operators use different encrypts.
Secondly, most cable providers include anlaog channels with the digital stream. If that is the case, without the ADC you wouldn't be able to record those channels. Also, I wouldn't doubt them using little tweaks on the MPEG-2 compression that makes it incompatable with some hardware.
And let's face it, cable companies are a real PITA.
Re:Digital Cable? (Score:1)
Because it gives them control. Requiring a user to have one of their boxes to decode digital cable makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to steal. Not so on analog. The cable companies want to keep the standards closed, that way it makes it that much more difficult to crack.
Cable companies are in a good position now though. Since their network is bidirectional, piracy has been almost completely eliminated on the digital side. They can simply choose what to send you and what not to send you. It is theoretically possible to have digital cable ready boxes freely available, but you would have to call the cable company and register it with them before it would work. That would though force some standards, and cable companies don't like standards. Just look how long it has taken them to agree on how to broadcast high-definition.
Not to mention, most digital cable systems are actually a hybrid analog/digital system. Usually, the first 100 channels or so are still analog, then anything above that is encoded digitally. For a DVR, that would mean you would still have to include the hardware to do MPEG2 encoding, which adds to the price significantly.
lawsuits (Score:1)
At least over here in
Reportedly worked like a charm. That is why the lawyers came kicking in.
Years ago I used to say American courts are ruled by insanity (like granting millions for the famous McDonalds coffee being too hot and lawsuits like these). These days I have to admit that the American influence has made us worse. There is the German Telekom (de facto telecommunication monopolist) suing for the exclusive use of the letter "t", the exclusive use of the color magenta (butt-ugly reddish-pink) and lately they even threw the book at some guy who hosted and maintained a website called "The black pages". The Telekom being the publisher of "The yellow pages" was wise enough to pull that one back in time. I don't know if they are still following the other lawsuits ("t" and magenta), but if you want to catch up, it's all on www.heise.de
Brave new world.
Guess they weren't ready for Slashdot (Score:1)
Re:Guess they weren't ready for Slashdot (Score:1)
As for a ship date, (from the FAQ):
Only a limited number of ReplayTV 4000s will be manufactured this year. They will ship to customers on November 15. You can be guaranteed one of the first ReplayTV 4000's by reserving yours today. Go to the buy now page or call 1-877-ReplayTV. ReplayTV 4000s will not be sold in retail stores.
eH? (Score:1)
Proofread Good (Score:1)
If this is the ad copy, God help the manual.
Back To School, VideoOnDemand, Demographics (Score:3, Interesting)
I can just see the net admins at colleges trying to deal with this. They've had to deal with napster and the like and all the bandwidth they'd consume on their LAN. Now imagine an entire dorm (or campus!) sending saved shows to each other.
If there's a way to hack the system, I can well imagine folks at the likes of MIT will find a way to do it. The result is that the initial broadcast of a show over the airwaves, cable, satelite, etc. could eventually be dwarfed by the time-delayed transmissions.
The Result? Bypass the current transmission media and get your shows direct from Replay! Sign up for the shows you want and they'd send it to you, over the internet. Then, just add video servers on the internet with pre-compressed movies available on a pay-per-view basis and you've got all you need to bypass the Blockbuster video rental shops -- just watch what you want, when you want it, without having to go out to get / return a video and no worry about late fees. Sure, it'll be free to share between RePlays for now, but I suspect that's just the initial push to build market share, and then there'd be a rollout of central server subscriptions, copy protection, and per-show charges.
Really a whole house media server (Score:2, Interesting)
The idea is you can keep video, audio (not yet discussed, but I'm sure is in there), pictures, etc in this unit, share it with your desktop, TV and other units, download video/audio/movies from the internet/etc/etc. Just like a file server, but geared toward multimedia (with the requisite MM oriented management tools).
It's really a powerful idea (IMHO) and while you can do this with a PC, they have a very nice interface and management tools and a nice "black box" approach. I think the $2000 for the extra space is silly, but...
I've already updated my ReplayTV 3030 to 80 Hours and will go to 160 soon. Once you start using these things with expanded capacity, you do start to "cache" programs/movies more and more. In fact, once you get over 60 hours or so, you start thinking of the device as some sort of server/respository (unlike with the 30 hour models where you are frequently deleting things when done, making it feel much more like just a time shifter). I really hope the "folders" stuff they mention will be in the next firmware update for all ReplayTV units though. I could really use it about now...
Unfortunatly, I think their likely to get sued to oblivion, but I have to beleive they expected this and have been preparing for it. I'd love to see them get through such a case unscathed as it would put a nice hole in the RIAA's dike.
I don't work for Replay, just been a pretty satisfied user for 1.5 years :-)
Gerry
Nothing New (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Nothing New (Score:2)
Re:Nothing New (Score:2)
Re:Nothing New (Score:2)
Ludicrous (Score:3, Insightful)
Things of this nature have been discussed for a long time, but eventually discarded as being impractical. Now, here it is in box form, and it's even more impractical than I would have ever imagined.
First of all, I spent $250 on my 20hr TiVo, and then an additional $300 in hard drives for a total of ~144 hours recording time in 120gig of storage. This combined total is CONSIDERABLY less than their 40hr unit, and comes with over 3x more storage time. This, alone, proves that it's not worth it. And $2000? For a PVR? Don't even get me started. I would MUCH rather buy a video card with TV in and the PVR-like services that video cards are being bundled with now. Then I could record to my heart's content... not that I've ever been able to accumulate 65hrs of content on my TiVo to date...
The networked video storage... this was never spoken of (out loud) because of the frowning of not only the TiVo sponsors, but the threat of lawsuits to a young company. People seem to have major issues when you distribute copies of programs with no visual loss between generations. At least someone else is here to take the fall that TiVo couldn't.
Skipping commercials was the other big problem. This has always been available via backdoors in TiVo (removed in 2.0.1, rumored to be back in 2.5), but again, never a mainstream feature because of the sponsor problems it would cause. I'm going to be real interested to find out how the television community reacts to these features, and hopefully ReplayTV can be the whipping boy to pave the way for TiVo's next software update.
This will be the only good thing to come out of ReplayTV, the fact that every legal team even eyeing TiVo in the past will all start looking Replay's way now... and if Replay can get away with these features without a problem, expect the apprehensive TiVo to have them Q1 next year. As for me, I couldn't even consider buying a PVR for $700. I almost never bought mine for $250, there's just NO WAY I could justify that much of an expense. Not when I could get at TiVo with better service (just a few less tricks up it's sleeve) for $199 nowadays.
space not really the issue (Score:2, Interesting)
As the space you have for storage goes up, the problem you immediately run into is the inability to record two things at the same time. This happens more often than you might think, principally because networks compete for the same audience by sheduling shows that have similar appeal opposite each other (the bastards) like for example, X-Files and Dark Angel.
So, personally, i think that ReplayTV would be better served by sticking in an extra tuner in there in preference to a bigger harddrive.
Tivo has announced a unit with two tuners, but i believe it only works with directtv. similarly, the microsoft ultimatetv can record two things at the same time, but only off directtv.
Of course, once there are two tuners in there, it will be easier to use up the space. Harddrives are upgradeable, however.
Another approach, since these new units are going to be networkable, would be to be able to network two or more units together. Have them negotiate between them who is going to record what when, and then present one user interface to control all of them. that would be nifty, though an expensive way to be able to record two things at once...
Correction: Re:space not really the issue (Score:1)
ReplayTV is NOT going to offer two tuners because then why would people want to order multiple units?
The multiple unit setup sounds pretty much ideal - the thing sounds as scalable as you might want it to be
The next step? (Score:1)
The only thing they haven't done here is include the DOCSIS cable modem in the box itself. With broadband IP into the house and this device on it why wouldn't they continue on to setting up distribution servers with PPV movies on them or pay-to-watch reruns of your favorite sitcom?
If we assume we need 2 Mbps for reasonable quality video that means we could expect to multicast up to 15 shows simultaneously in the space of one 6 MHz (30 Mbps) TV channel. Let's say we wanted top quality regular TV, we're still only talking about 6 Mbps per show. Now, HDTV is where it gets fun. I remember reading somewhere that it took nearly 80 Mbps to do HDTV, dunno if that's right or not. (I guess that would lead me to ask how they're doing it in one TV channel then... heh.)
If the consumer can specify what they want in advance, and throw in some Tivo-like "recommendations" then true video on demand could start to take shape. Then again, just a Tivo and regular cable will do the same damn thing, this idea is just a different way of distributing it.
Re:The next step? (Score:1)
It's not really 320 hours (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I'm assuming that ReplayTV advertises their hours just like TiVo does, which is based on the lowest quality setting. If it's similar to TiVo, here is what it is probably like:
Re:It's not really 320 hours (Score:2, Informative)
One of the main problems with PVRs like TiVo and ReplayTV is that it is preforming lossy compression on what is already a low-quality signal coming through your cable system. Think recoding VHS in SP vs LP/EP. In SP, its almost as good as watching whatever quality it was in the original broadcast-- Thats about what you get from 'High Quality' on a PVR, if even that.
Re:It's not really 320 hours (Score:2)
Too bad none of these systems are PAL enabled! (Score:2)
Dont stop here (commercial skips) (Score:1)
They should insert their own ads in place of commercials. After the networks attack them, they can stand behind some 'consumer rights' statement, and say that this is a war between consumers and the networks. They can just claim that users want this like EZula does.
They could make tons of money, uh, I mean really give consumers added features and benefits.
ya.
Irony and Eternal Service (Score:2)
Aside from having a les elegant interface (and, in my opinion, recording functionality) than TiVo, ReplayTV is basically selling you service all over again when you upgrade hardware. When you buy a TiVo you can get lifetime service or pay monthly, but there's not an inordinate amount of motivation for TiVo to drive their customers to buy new hardware. Replay gets another $200 (tacked onto the price) every time someone buys a box, and at no other time, so they aren't motivated to create hardware that won't immediately obsolesce. The LAN access is a good example of this. You want it? Fine, but you just ate the lifetime guide service you bought, because now you're going to pay for it again.
The other problem I have is that without the option of month-to-month or annual service, you're counting on ReplayTV staying in business, a proposition they've already shown is speculative at best. Since TiVo actually gets money from subscibers every month or year to keep the guide up and running, that guide will continue, run by some company, even if TiVo goes bellyup.
Service fees (Score:2, Informative)
On the positive side, if TiVo does not have a local dial-up number (and not all of us live in the usual metropolitan areas), it will use a toll-free number for its nightly call, not costing the owner any money. ReplayTV instead will use a long distance number if a local one is not available.
Ethernet? Who still uses that? I want 802.11b (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, since I've had my ReplayTV, I've wished that it could get show listings, etc., over my home network. It was obvious when I first got it that one of the future upgrades should be an ethernet port. But my home network cabling doesn't go near the TV, as I suspect is the case for a lot of people.
On the other hand, I now have an 802.11b base station. Wi-Fi would be perfect in this situation. No need to run cable out to the TV! Hopefully, the ReplayTV people are working on that right now. (Also, Xbox could use an 802.11b option, too. Listening, Xbox designers?)
Re:Ethernet? Who still uses that? I want 802.11b (Score:2)
It's not exactly the same, but are you aware of MyReplayTV.com [myreplaytv.com]?
REALLY, $700 isn't that bad. No, I'm serious! (Score:4, Insightful)
Shell out $700 for the low-end ReplayTV (40 hours), and it has the lifetime subscription at no charge. Ethernet is built in. You've got USEFUL networking apps that are SUPPORTED by the company. And you can download (via iChannels) content over the web so you've got a new content provider for non-mainstream media.
I think it is almost a no-brainer for advanced TiVo users to get one of these. I really hope it takes off. Or TiVo gets their act in gear.
Replay4xxx "promotional code" ? (Score:2)
Anybody known of other promotional codes to use?
Needed: peer-to-peer automatic commercial skipping (Score:3, Interesting)
All that has to be shared is information like station="WMAL" date="2002-06-03" skip-start="08:31:00" skip-end="08:31:30". Every time you push the "30 second skip" button, an entry like that gets created. Entries are distributed over Gnutella or Freenet. When watching a show, your player queries the net for entries with appropriate station, date, and time info. If a few different people have skipped over the same time slot, your player should skip it too.
Great open source project for somebody.
Networks can opt out of file sharing! (Score:3, Informative)
So, in short, this feature will probably be disabled by angry networks before it leaves the gate. And it also answers the lawsuit question-- ReplayTV won't be sued, because this feature will come pre-disabled for your convenience.
and they ignore SUBMITS (Score:1)
Somebody figured it out... (Score:2)
Here's an article [technofile.com] about one model. (just a quick search on google)
Re:Somebody figured it out... (Score:1)
...also, perhaps some software could be used to detect that strobing black/white block that appears a minute or so before a break.
Somebody figured it out, and forgot to tell me ;) (Score:1)
It seems most are claiming a 90% success rate.
That sounds very promising.
Now i am getting Really curious how it works, and if it works in the Netherlands as well.
I guess i'll have to dive into google to find out more about this, and if there are any reactions so far from advertisers.
Probably not untill there is a big installed base of tv's or boxes like this, that will make 'live' add skipping a possibility, will the advertisers spend much time and effort on it.
If this is the general trend, they will retaliate. no doubt.
Leon
-no brain, no pain
They could do it with timing... (Score:1)
Re:They could do it with timing... (Score:2)
ReplayTV already has a dedicated 30-second-skip button on the remote. (and it's great!)
Re:add skipping ? (Score:1)
This isn't fool proof (action movies can trigger this detection method) but you can determine the threshhold for triggoring a commercial, and use that. With a delay circuit that delays the recording 5 seconds when this feature is enabled, you could have 5s of sampling to decide whether or not to turn it on.