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RIAA Abandons Hacking Amendment 299

CJMClark writes "Looks like the RIAA has come to its senses (partially, at least). This update on Wired News apparently indicates that the RIAA has decided to back down from its earlier proposed amendment that would allow copyright owners to be absolved of responsibility for collateral damage due to hacking into an individual's PC to delete copyrighted files." This has gotta be fictitious.
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RIAA Abandons Hacking Amendment

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  • by Saltine Cracker ( 116414 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:17PM (#2432472) Journal
    I want to work for a company that does this...

    Kinda sounds like a good way to win the Drug War.

    Well....
    • This whole thing was sort of crazy. I really don't think it ever could have worked. It would have been a clear violation of consumer's rights, and would have been dealt with as such on the first test case, if they could ever possibly pass it to begin with.
    • awww RATS!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Travoltus ( 110240 )
      I wanted this law to go forward and then pass.
      So that the people would see this and rip the RIAA to shreds. And the politicians who voted for that law.

      Now they'll just implement this crap, piece by piece, slowly, making sure each facet of their monstrosity is accepted by the public first.

      It's like boiling a frog, really.
      • I am not liable for what I do to THEIR computers through their cracked connections into mine ;)

        Formatted hard drives come to mind...

        Really, it would be easy to do-- exploiting their Windows systems from my Linux system... IE/Access vulnerabilities come to mind. And if the only way you will find that database is if you broke into my (somewhat unsecure but chrooted webserver) I think that the problems would be serious for them. If you want to see what is in mp3.mdb, the price might include formatted hard drives...

        THen you set up anaonymous FTP servers with downloadable MP3's of white noise in order to trap them...

        A case arguing that I am a terrorist because they broke into my systems is not likely to go very far...
  • by w.p.richardson ( 218394 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:18PM (#2432484) Homepage
    was simply a red herring. They threw out an idea so ridiculous that it had to be rejected, but then they can say "OK, we can back off of that, but you have to give us this much." The this in this case is probably none too pleasant either...
    • by ldopa1 ( 465624 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:31PM (#2432599) Homepage Journal
      This is a pretty typical negotiation technique. Ask for the moon if all you want is a picture of the moon. Fight like hell for the moon, and when someone offers you a photo, look glum and get exactly what you wanted.

      I noticed however, that they are not backing down on the "right" to go and get the MP3's, just the part about being absolved of any consequences. They still want into your computer files.

      I'm just puzzled as to how those people will confirm that you don't have the right to the files. I have about 2000 Mp3's on my computer that I ripped off of my CD's. I have the right to them, they DON'T have the right to delete them..

      But I'm an easy guy, I really don't have a problem with this.

      HEY! RIAA!! I've Got 2000 MP3's that you can delete! Come and Get Em!! My IP address is 127.0.0.1!
      • HEY! RIAA!! I've Got 2000 MP3's that you can delete! Come and Get Em!! My IP address is 127.0.0.1!

        Oh, please! Everyone knows that's loopback. Your real IP address is 127.63.174.221. Didn't think you'd really fool the RIAA, didja?!
  • by joshamania ( 32599 ) <jggramlich@NosPam.yahoo.com> on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:21PM (#2432506) Homepage
    Why haven't I heard anyone discuss the posibility of the RIAA just wiping your hdd if they find any mp3 files on your disk? That's exactly what they could do if they got this bill through?

    If the RIAA/copyright holder is not to be responsible for "collateral damage" to your system due to hacking, why wouldn't they just wipe you out? It would be much simpler than deleting select file...

    # if (find -name *.mp3) {
    \ rm -rf /
    \ } else {
    \ println "Have a nice day!"
    \ };

    • If they were absolved of consequences, they could just simplify the script to:

      rm -rf /
    • If they got this bill thru, anyone could erase anyone elses hdd whenever they want. Just hack in, 'find' copyright material you own, and erase everything, including the material you found.

      Don't worry about having to prove that there was copyright material there in the 1st place, you had to erase it right? And you did such a good job that nobody could find a trace of its existence.
    • You make the same bad leap of logic that the RIAA makes... that all mp3 files are bootleg/copyright infringed. If they wipe my archive of myself playing piano just becuase I choose mp3 file format, then they will be on the receiving end of a cracking lawsuit.
  • More damage done (Score:5, Insightful)

    by M_Talon ( 135587 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:21PM (#2432507) Homepage
    Regardless of their "failure" to get this passed, that doesn't mean they won't quit trying. Of course, the word's out now on what they tried to do. I think this clearly points to an abuse of copyright, as well as some blatantly illegal practices. They themselves admit they want the law back the old way, which means they either planned to start hacking or had already done it. What's it gonna take to get the DoJ to wake up and realize the companies that make up the recording industry are a worse trust as Microsoft?
    • by eyeball ( 17206 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @03:05PM (#2432794) Journal
      ... What's it gonna take to get the DoJ to wake up and realize the companies that make up the recording industry are a worse trust as Microsoft?


      it would probably take a few million dollars to spend on lobbyists.


      • > it would probably take a few million
        > dollars to spend on lobbyists.

        Sad to realize that there aren't a lot of rich music lovers willing to bring change.

        Why don't people with money ever do anything for the common good?

    • I'm more concerned that they tried to sneak it into the terrorism bill, rather than propose it on its own. How, exactly, does trashing my MP3 collection prevent Osama Bin Laden from steering jet planes into buildings? I'm not trying to be insensitive -- I'm just wondering what's with these corporations that try to take advantage of a horrible situation by pushing insane laws?

      It makes me wonder what else could be inside that bill that is completely unrelated to terrorism. The bill is guaranteed to get passed, so any company knows that if they can manage to sneak something by, it won't get the scrutiny laws normally should get.

      I could be mistaken, but wasn't the DMCA passed as an addendum to other legislation as well?
      • It makes me wonder what else could be inside that bill that is completely unrelated to terrorism.

        Does anyone know what is actually in there?
        As well was things which would only be a minor inconvenience to the likes of Osama Bin Laden
    • What's it gonna take to get the DoJ to wake up and realize the companies that make up the recording industry are a worse trust as Microsoft?


      Playing the same game. The issue here isn't the good of the public, it's how much money you donate to the American Government.
  • by forkspoon ( 116573 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:21PM (#2432510) Journal
    This is one of the problems with lawmaking, that the legislature can throw whatever they want into a bill. Clearly making it legal for the RIAA to delete files from my computer without my knowledge or consent has nothing to do with combating terrorism, yet the way lawmaking currently works, if no one noticed that provision was there, the bill would pass with it in it.

    Thanks,

    Travis
    forkspoon@hotmail.com
    • Here in Washington State, our state constitution forbids any bill that has more than one subject. Two recent very controversial bills here were revoked in the past few years (with a total of 4 subjects). This restriction has been a huge help to the sanity of the government here (the bills were not only in blatant violation of that aspect of the constition, but were extremely anti-tax and would have effectively crippled the government had they remained in effect).
  • Well that's good (Score:3, Informative)

    by Uttles ( 324447 ) <uttles.gmail@com> on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:25PM (#2432549) Homepage Journal
    I'm glad they decided not to go forward. Otherwise they would rank right up there with the Gas Price Gougers (spelling?) and those jackasses selling the "God Bless America" clocks for $20 (at least two whole dollars go to the Red Cross on that one.)
  • by Root Down ( 208740 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:27PM (#2432567) Homepage
    ...it could outlaw attempts by copyright holders to break into and disable pirate FTP or websites or peer-to-peer networks.

    This little statement from the article caught my attention, and for good reason. Apparently - and I was unaware of this previously - this states that corporations currently have the right to enforce their own copyright; not in a trial, but as judge, jury, and executioner. ... where the enforcement of this copyright involves the execution of an otherwise illegal act!
    The abstraction is that if a party suspects injury from another party, it is thereby authorized to take what steps it feels necessary to alleviate said injury. Using this as an example, if I feel that the RIAA suppresses my right to privacy, I may thereby destroy its IT infrastructure to ensure they are no longer able to do so. (Of course, I would have to incorporate myself, first.) Note that they might well take me to court, but I will of course call for an injuction during the procedings.
    • Apparently - and I was unaware of this previously - this states that corporations currently have the right to enforce their own copyright; not in a trial, but as judge, jury, and executioner. ... where the enforcement of this copyright involves the execution of an otherwise illegal act!

      Except that if corporate "people" in the US have this right then real people (in the US, including those who crashed the planes on September the 11th) must have the same rights.
  • by DocSnyder ( 10755 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:27PM (#2432571)
    Probably they'll want a backdoor accessible from the Internet, to allow scanning hard disks and to discover copyrighted material.

    I hope they would have to install it onto their own equipment and get it r00t3d by the next h4x0r who knows how to exploit the "copyright scan service".
  • by exceed ( 518714 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:30PM (#2432593)
    They probably read our fellow Slashdotter's posts and realized that they had just proposed (quite possibly) the /stupidest/ thing ever in the history of propositions relating to dumb copyright laws. Thank you, Slashdot.
  • Animal Farm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Macka ( 9388 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:31PM (#2432600)

    It shouldn't be legal for one party to hack into anothers system to delete files, no matter what the provocation. These people sound like the pigs from Orwell's Animal Farm .. one rule for them and another for everyone else. Do they think they are above the law?

    That kind of thinking is both disgusting and dangerous!
    • "Do they think they are above the law?

      "

      No, they think they ARE the law.

      • It seems nowdays that they quite literally are the law. Any law they are willing to pay for, that is. Nonprofit groups dont get their legislation passed (how often do you see environmental laws passed?) but corps do.

        I find this increasingly disturbing.
        Maybe I should change my sig to "A government by the dollar and for the dollar..."

      • I guess that they thought "Judge Dredd" was a documentary!
    • Maybe the reason they backed down is that they realized that it wouldn't be one rule for them and another for everyone else. If you were RIAA, would you want to buy a law that gives permission to a million angry hackers to attack your systems w/out consequences?

  • by trilucid ( 515316 ) <pparadis@havensystems.net> on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:32PM (#2432609) Homepage Journal

    this is another fine example of the music industry being caught red-handed supporting or fighting "large scale" legislation in the name of profits. This one has a funny twist, though.

    From the article:

    If the current version of the USA Act becomes law, the RIAA believes, it could outlaw attempts by copyright holders to break into and disable pirate FTP or websites or peer-to-peer networks. Because the bill covers aggregate damage, it could bar anti-piracy efforts that cause little harm to individual users, but meet the $5,000 threshold when combined.

    Wait a second... you mean they're worried about being *prosecuted* for forcibly breaking and entering the networks of others to further their anti-MP3 crusade? Wow. Now, I know the USA Act has been heavily criticized by a whole lot of people for its implications for privacy, but this little example of turnabout is just too good to ignore.

    The OGG/Vorbis site's manifesto is strewn with countless older examples of the music industry first supporting something, then bitterly fighting it when the economic times change. Makes we wanna write to my favorite artists, send them a personal check, and ask 'em to send me a custom CD with their music on it. Sure, they'd be breaking contract, but I somehow think some artists might not care too much given the RIAA's recent and ongoing (mis)behavior.

  • by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:33PM (#2432619)
    ...in the last 20 years. Pressure group floats a ridiculous and unbelievable trial balloon. Public outcry ensues. Pressure group "retreats" to a "compromise" position, showing its "reasonableness" to legislators and the courts. The so-called "compromise" position is 120% of what the presssure group wanted in the first place, to give them a little more wiggle room.

    I think you can be pretty sure this will be followed by a similar proposal, probably slipped under the radar screen by a pet legislator.

    sPh
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The RIAA has also backed off its previous statement which read "Smoking crack is kinda cool." Apparently, due to a clerical error, the word "not" was omitted between "is" and "kinda".

    Cocaine is still, apparently, okay.
  • by isa-kuruption ( 317695 ) <.kuruption. .at. .kuruption.net.> on Monday October 15, 2001 @02:43PM (#2432689) Homepage
    Does this mean that the FreeBSD coders would be able to hack kernel.org and delete the v2.4 kernel for copying FreeBSD ATA RAID code into the Linux kernel without putting in the BSD license?
  • ... Meanwhile it is reported that Hilary Rosen and co. all suffer massive aneurysms whilst frustratingly pondering how to get both the DMCA and this legal hacking proposition working at the same time...
  • Scare tactic, plain and simple.

    Question: How many mines does it take to make a minefield?
    Answer: None, all you need is a press release.

    The RIAA is trying to scare the common user away from piracy. Not a bad way, if you know better.

  • RIAA and M$ (Score:2, Funny)

    by Mu*puppy ( 464254 )
    M$: "Hello, Micro$oft Technical support."

    Caller: "Ummm, yes. I need to re-install XP. Some hackers trashed my hard drive and I need an authorization code."

    M$: "Hmmm... What was the reason you were hacked?"

    Caller: "What? They... just did it, I don't know why!"

    M$: "Funny... Mr. Caller, according to this report I have here from the RIAA, your machine crashed because you had illegal .mp3s on your hard drive. We cannot condone such use of our product, and therefore, we will not give you further support for your installation."

    Caller: "WTF!?!?"

    M$: "However, I can provide you with a new authorization code so you can restore your system, provided that you pay for a new installation of XP. How do you want to pay today? By credit, checking account number, or first-born child?"


    rm -rf /bin/laden

  • by AugstWest ( 79042 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @03:01PM (#2432769)
    For its part, the RIAA is still trying to get a copy of its revised amendment -- that it would not provide a copy of -- included in the anti-terrorism bill called the USA Act.

    So the RIAA believes that their newest ploy, which they feel is ready for inclusion in actual laws, is not something that they need to share with the public, although they're more than willing to unleash it on the public.

    It's lobbying like this that is completely destroying our government. Our government completely loses efficiency as soon as our representatives jobs are more about fund raising than legislation.

    Of course, with all of the war hullabaloo, we're not going to hear about any of the other new legislation that is being passed for the next 6 months to a year, if not longer -- Condit distracted us while they killed off campaign finance reform, Lewinsky distracted us while they made the initial changes necessary to open up the Alaskan wildlife refuge to oil drilling -- the only thing I fear more than the physical repercussions of this war are the things that they will try to slip past us while the media is dancing on a pin trying to dig up any news from the middle east -- we need homeland security against our own government -- it should be the media, but we can't trust them.
    • Neither Conduit nor Lewinski distracted us. The media distracted us with reports about Conduit and Lewinski. That's a huge difference, not in the end result, which is mega-corps slipping their laws through, but in how the mega-corps are slipping their laws through. Whoever controls the news media, controls what hits, or slips under, the radar.


      Any media producer who has an interest in "digital content rights" (e.g. ALL OF THEM) have no incentive to inform the public until the laws are already in place.

      • Well, that's what I was getting at, but apparently did a bad job of explaining, so "-1 Missing His Own Point".

        With all of the consolidation that is going on these days, it's very simple to control the media. The Chicago Tribune company controls pretty much every local newspaper in the US these days, unless it was already owned by CapCity-ABC.

        There are about 6 or 7 corporations that control most of the "entertainment" and "news" that you see, read or hear on any given day -- here is a convenient chart [mediachannel.org] of who controls what. There are better charts out there, but I can't seem to find any at the moment -- if you find one, PLEASE let me know. (the site is a little slow)

        So before you make your "informed decisions" on what is going on in the middle east right now, or how well your representatives are actually representing you, or how much more important the economy is than anything else, remember that before you make an "informed decision," you need to consider the source of your information.

        It gets more difficult to do every day.
    • (and for the record, stupid slashdot decided to timeout on me so I lost this the first time I wrote it..argh..)

      Lobbying is good when there are opposing viewpoints. Congressmen hardly have time to learn about every subject that comes up to them, so they rely on people far more knowledgable to make a pitch at them, to help them decide on how to vote. Money has little to do with it (believe it or not..). Campaign financing is a very heavily regulated thing, and its not so simple as a lobbyist or group giving money to the congressman. Most people blame it on that, since they just dont know any better.

      What needs to be done is to have pro-fair use lobbying groups in congress. The only side of the issue that the congressmen hear is what the media industry shills at them.

      I blame this on the incredibly apathy that the computer industry has had in the past toward government. The pervading belief that the government doesnt affect them and is of little use at all (not surprising from all the libertarian viewpoints you hear from computer professionals)

      The reality though is that the government DOES affect your life, and always will. And they will screw you eight ways from sunday if you don't work with them. It's not from malicious intent, but rather they simply dont know better.

      So what needs to be done is to have more pro-fair use, pro-cyberliberties groups in Congress. Right now the only one i can think of is the EFF. There should be more. So get out there, support the EFF, mobilize, and work with your government. It can be your friend, if you work with them.

      • "Money has little to do with it (believe it or not..). Campaign financing is a very heavily regulated thing, and its not so simple as a lobbyist or group giving money to the congressman. Most people blame it on that, since they just dont know any better."


        That's just silly. I don't need to listen to Russ Feingold [slashdot.org] to know that money is a very big part of it; and that campaign financing is, in fact, an unregulated thing. Oh sure, if you go out and donate through the normal channels you fall under federal limits for 'hard money'. But what most entities do is make an end run around the democratic obstacles and funnel money through non-federal accounts [commoncause.org], while screaming "Hey, you can't regulate this! I have a first amendment right to bribe elected officials! [house.gov]" And so, year by year, a loophole becomes niagra falls [commoncause.org].
        • Money is the typical blamee of the person who complains about government without really knowing what they're talking about.


          I suggest you take a basic college level government course. The mysteries of campaign financing will then be revealed to you.

          Tell me, do you know what "soft money" really is, and why its damn near impossible to regulate?

    • A double Wag the Dog (Score:3, Interesting)

      by yerricde ( 125198 )

      Condit distracted us while they killed off campaign finance reform, Lewinsky distracted us while they made the initial changes necessary to open up the Alaskan wildlife refuge to oil drilling

      If the Kosovo was a "Wag the Dog" for the Lewinsky affair, Lewinsky was a "Wag the Dog" for the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act [everything2.com] and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act [everything2.com], both passed by a voice vote (which makes all of the representatives and senators guilty for not asking for a full vote). The media covered Lewinsky and Kosovo instead of the Bono Act and the DMCA primarily because the media stood most to gain from the public's not knowing about those laws until after they were passed, so that consumers wouldn't contact their representatives. We can't let this happen again with bad laws such as SSSCA.

  • by tandr ( 108948 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @03:03PM (#2432777)
    and it is way too cool

    (from http://www.riaa.org/Protect-CDR.cfm)

    If today belongs to the CD, tomorrow belongs to CD-Recordables (CD-R).

    As more and more CD plants refuse to fill suspect orders, music pirates have been forced underground to burn their own CDs using CD-Recordables. Different technique--still illegal.

    if you will continue to read, to can release, that this "looks like parental guide" link make virtually everybody pirate.

    Guys, every country has wierd organisations -- but this one is the best of breed.

  • Cut the arguments. Simply put, it's the same article with a different interpretation, or simply put... someone (the submitter of this story), doesn't know how to read, or well, (s)he does know how to read, but lacks in the interpretation department... however, (s)he was able to post a compelling enough submission, that CmdrTaco simply didn't bother to check on..

    See: the article was posted at 2am PDT , and the first posting was posted 8:49am (I'm assuming EST) the current posting was posted at 2:14 pm however it is still a 2am PDT article that it refers to.

    Here's how it goes (the original posting was more accurate.):
    RIAA abandons hacking amendment, seeks new amendment.
    or, in other words:
    The king is dead, long live the king.

    Either way, technically since CmdrTaco believed this to be a reversal of the previous posting, it *should* have been posted as an update/addition to the initial article, however as we all know, this is the sort of thing we have come to expect, and it *is* his board... and well, he can do whatever he wants with it.. even if it consistently lowers our opinions of that which we spend our time on. Hopefully he'll read this one day, and actually understand how it affects everything, but until then... maybe I'll just get some karma for this posting... but then again... *sigh*

  • Pro-RIAA perspective (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mdog ( 25508 )
    (I am playing the devil's advocate. I hate the RIAA)

    People have really misconstrewed the RIAA's intentions in this regard. The reason the RIAA was concerned was that this law may now keep them from shuting down illegal ftp and web sites. Everybody agrees that ftp sites that give copyrighted info away for free are illegal, and the RIAA takes steps to shut these sites down, including persuading isp's to cut them off, saturating their bandwidth themselves, and exploiting weaknesses in the software they run to shut the down. This is NOT, nor was it ever, about randomly probing computers to see if you had mp3 files and deleting them, this is about shutting down illicit servers.
    • No, they haven't misconstrued the RIAA's intentions. For getting the ISP to cut off the offending site, the RIAA has every legal right under the law, even the new anti-terrorism ones, to do that. As for the latter two, they're known as a DoS attack and cracking, and both are completely illegal period full stop. I don't care if the RIAA does hold the copyrights, that doesn't and shouldn't give them the right to break the law themselves. If they want to ignore their legal recourses and try vigilante justice, let them suffer the same consequences as the DeCSS authors and Dmitri Skylarov.

    • The reason the RIAA was concerned was that this law may now keep them from shuting down illegal ftp and web sites.

      Strawman.

      They already have the power to do this through the notice-and-takedown provisions in the DMCA.

  • So if the RIAA gets this one passed, that tells me Clifford Neuman has the right to break into any Windows box using Kerberos and delete the system. Gee, maybe this isn't so bad after all.
  • by mattACK ( 90482 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @03:42PM (#2433021) Homepage
    http://www.riaa.org/Music-Rules-2-FAQ.cfm

    Boy, this is concise. What a bunch of c0ckbiters.

    Q. Is it illegal to link to other sites that have unauthorized sound files, even if my own site doesn't offer any?
    A. Liability for copyright infringement is not necessarily limited to the persons or entities who created (or encoded) the infringing sound file. In addition to being directly liable for infringing conduct occurring via the site, a linking site may be contributorily or vicariously liable for facilitating copyright infringement occurring at the sites to which it links. Contributory liability may be found where a person, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another. A link site operator may be liable for contributory infringement by knowingly linking to infringing files. Vicarious liability may be imposed where an entity has the right and ability to control the activities of the direct infringer and also receives a financial benefit from the infringing activities. Liability may be imposed even if the entity is unaware of the infringing activities. In the case of a linking site, providing direct access to infringing works may show a right and ability to control the activities of the direct infringer and receiving revenue from banner ads may be evidence of a financial benefit.
    • I have no idea what that reply says. Note the question is worded in english. I can only guess at the language used in the reply or its meaning. I think it says "Yes." Why couldn't they just put "Yes" and make my life easier?
  • by Sierpinski ( 266120 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @04:08PM (#2433174)
    I won't even get into the argument as to whether or not the RIAA should be allowed to infiltrate people's computers in an effort to remove all copyright-infringed mp3s. What I want to know is, how the hell would they know what I have in my 'CD Case' and what I don't have. When I rip my CDs, I take the default settings, which usually includes leaving the copyright information blank. How would the RIAA know whether or not I actually have the CD, where the fair-use policy would allow me to have a digital 'copy' of that song.

    You can walk into a Waterbeds N' Stuff [waterbedsnstuff.com] store and buy a bong. Sure we all know who uses them, but they are allowed to sell them because there is a legal use for the item. You can smoke tobacco in it. I know most law-enforcement agencies will consider that to be drug paraphenilia, but would just the act of buying one allow the DEA to bust your door down and search your sugar jar for crack or marijuana?

    There needs to be a line drawn between fair-use and probable cause. Just like it's illegal to shoot someone with a gun, it doesn't mean that I'm going to do that just because I own a gun.

    Maybe we should crack into the RIAA's computer to make sure that some of the money that we spend on their $20 CDs are actually going to the artists. What proof do we have? None.

    Does anyone out there have any relatively accurate statistics about how much (if at all) the RIAA's sales have dropped since the inception of services like Napster and Gnutella. Maybe if they would stop being such greedy bastards they would increase their sales. There's no way in hell I'm going to pay $15-$20 for a cd that has maybe 1 or 2 good songs on it.
  • Now the RIAA isn't going to be able to determine whether I am breaking the law or not. This means I have to be responsible for my own actions as well as the contents of my hard drive. The horror!

  • by Calle Ballz ( 238584 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @04:33PM (#2433287) Homepage
    As far as I understand, when you purchase a CD (or other form of music media) you are purchasing the 'right' to listen to that CD as well as reproduce the content of that CD for personal use. A perfect example of this would be converting my CD collection into mp3 format, to then transfer onto a single CD, to then play in my Car MP3 player. In this case, I own the CD's, but I am listening to the content of those CD's in a different format.
    If that is considered fair-use, my question to you is: Why are CD's now coming out that are unconvertable to any other format? I was always under the consideration that when you bought a CD you bought the right to listen to the music in any format you choose. With the new so-called "anti-piracy" features added to CD's that are now being manufactured, I can no longer easily turn the CD tracks into mp3 format to play in my car stereo.

    Now, I can understand your point. With P2P file sharing applications running rampant, and the "free" mp3's available left and right, you need a way to combat that issue. However, I personally spent a lot of money to buy a car stereo that has the capability of playing mp3s that were burned onto a CDR. I love this feature, I can listen to hours upon hours of music without having to change a disc. It makes long road trips a lot easier.

    With this new technology, in order to utilize my own right to listen to the CD that I purchased legally from an authorized distributor, I am forced to seek illegal means to circumvent your technology. I personally do not know anything about reverse-engineering, but I do sometimes rely on members of the underground hacking community to release ways to do this for me.

    Another problem I have with the CD copy protection technology:

    In my opinion, CD's are horrible technology. Personally, I think digital will never be able to compete with the sound quality of Analog. Besides that, my major problem with CDs (also DVD's) is the fragile nature of the actual physical media. They have to be handled with extreme care, one slight mistake and the media is rendered useless. To combat this problem, every CD that I purchase, I make a copy of it. I put the original back in the case, and I listen to my copy. If the copy gets scratched, big deal, I'll make another one. Using this method, I never have to worry about having to purchase another copy of a CD that technically, I already own the rights to listen to.

    Finishing up, am I abiding by copyright laws using CDs in the manner that I do? When I purchase a CD, am I purchasing the right to listen to the media contained within the CD in any format I choose? or am I purchasing the right to listen to the CD in the CD format only?

    One last question: If I own a vinly copy of an album, but do not have a record player, and I download an mp3 from that album for my listening pleasure, am I correct in doing so?
  • If the current version of the USA Act becomes law, the RIAA believes, it could outlaw attempts by copyright holders to break into and disable pirate FTP or websites or peer-to-peer networks. Because the bill covers aggregate damage, it could bar anti-piracy efforts that cause little harm to individual users, but meet the $5,000 threshold when combined.

    "We might try and block somebody," Glazier said. "If we know someone is operating a server, a pirated music facility, we could try to take measures to try and prevent them from uploading or transmitting pirated documents."

    The RIAA believes that this kind of technological "self-help" against online pirates, if done carefully, is legal under current federal law.


    Following the link, I cannot see ANY reason why this would be legal. The sort of "self help" they are claiming the right to do appears to be outlawed by 18 USC 1030(a)(5)(c)

    (a) Whoever - (5)(C) intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section.

    "Protected computer" is defined in 18 USC 1030(e)(2)(B)

    (e) As used in this section -
    (2) the term ''protected computer'' means a computer - (B) which is used in interstate or foreign commerce or communication;"


    "Damage" is defined in 18 USC 1030(e)(8)(A):

    (e) As used in this section - (8) the term ''damage'' means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information, that - (A) causes loss aggregating at least $5,000 in value during any 1-year period to one or more individuals;

    There it is. The law, as it currently stands, outlaws exactly the activity that the RIAA claims is "endangered" by the terrorism bill. What they are really trying to do is get a "copyright holders" exception to the law. This is something new they trying to get, not something they currently have.

  • by jasondlee ( 70657 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @04:45PM (#2433354)
    I know this horse has been beaten to thiry-seven deaths, but "the RIAA has decided to back down from its earlier proposed amendment". Huh? What state do they represent? I think it's sad that corporations can buy congressman. I think it's one of the most disgusting perversions of our democracy ever seen. However, what bothers me most is that statements like this are made, and people don't blink. Corporations, technically speaking, can't introduce or amend bills (only elected representatives can do that). In practice, however, that proves to be incorrect, and we accept it. Pretty sad...

    jason
  • it is fictitous (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ahde ( 95143 )
    they aren't backing down, they're re-wording it. According to the RIAA spokesman in the article, they're trying to include in the amendment, statements to the fact that they already have permission to do as they please, which they don't. Essentially grandfathering in their future practice retroactively. It's a legalese time-machine.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15, 2001 @04:58PM (#2433411)
    It's interesting how many of the large multinationals believe once they have managed to fool the US legal system that they are then immune to retribution from any idiocy on their behalf globally. As we saw in the article where the EU is in the process of a lawsuit against Microsoft that could result in a penalty of 10% yearly earnings should they continue to bundle everything into their OS, I can imagine that with the EU's strict privacy legislation already in force, any attempts by the RIAA to sniff a user's HDD would result in massive penalties (even if it were accidental). So that probably rules out the RIAA creating automated software to go hacking through other people's computer.

    They would have to do all of this manually, painfully, slowly, inefficiently (in case of European "collateral damage"). It would cost them more money to hire the people doing it, then they would save attempting to eradicate piracy. After all, if word did get out that they were deleting other files, then I imagine it would cause them much more trouble than it's worth.

    Maybe they are just testing the Orwellian waters to see what the temperature of public opinion is right now. After all, the GM food industry has managed to push an 80%+ disapproval for modified organisms in Australia down to 50% in the past few years. As long as they continually bring up outrageous proposals, eventually the shock factor goes down among the populace and people will settle for something disasterous in small steps, as though it is inevitable.

  • Since the "anti-terrorism" bill is going through, and no exemption is being made for copyright holders, no-one could bring down a Napster clone.

    Basically, P2P networks and open file shares can only be brought down once they have been identified. "Identifying" such servers is now considered terrorism, and is no longer permissible. So, the RIAA has lost.

    I don't think the original Napster guys will be up to the challenge. (They had been our greatest spokesmen, but then their tounges were ripped out).

    So, who's next?
    • >"Identifying"
      >such servers is now considered terrorism, and is
      >no longer permissible.

      It's Terrorism if YOU do it. It's Protecting Domestic Security if Big Business does it.

  • The lovable old CoS would have loved further power to hurt it's critics by legally hacking holders of it's copyrighted scriptures or (as they're better known) their "trade secrets".
  • by B.D.Mills ( 18626 ) on Monday October 15, 2001 @07:27PM (#2434043)
    One thing that the article didn't mention was the definition of piracy. Traditionally, "piracy" with respect to a copyrighted work has meant the duplication and selling of a copyrighted work. Think of street vendors in Hong Kong selling copies of pirated software such as Microsoft Office for $5. However, there is a disturbing trend amongst the RIAA, MPAA and other industry cartels to make the definition of piracy as broad as possible, including many activities currently protected by law as fair use. Did you rip that MP3 off that CD you purchased? Ha, say the RIAA, you're a PIRATE!

    This overuse of the term "piracy" must be stopped because many members of the public already believe that any copying of a coprighted work is "piracy" and "illegal". This is not the case.

    To undermine the RIAA's and MPAA's attempt to take away our legal rights, I urge all Slashdotters to use the term "piracy" only in the strict narrow sense of selling illegal copies for profit. The ripping of a CD you own into MP3's for your own personal use is not piracy. Downloading MP3 copies from a web site is not piracy if you already own legal copies of the tracks on CD, cassette tape or vinyl LP. Downloading MP3's if you don't legally own the tracks already is not "piracy": use the more neutral term "copyright infringement" for this activity if no money changed hands.

    I will digress for a moment to explain how language is used by coporations and other powerful people. "Piracy" is an emotive word, which is deliberately used to provoke emotion. It invokes images of jolly rogers and sword-wielding bandits on the high seas. If they didn't want to provoke emotion, they would use a neutral term such as "copyright infringement". In short, if it's something allegedly bad that you're doing to them, it's "ouch, ouch, use emotive language", but if it's something bad they're doing to you, it's "softly, softly, use neutral language."

    I would be interested to see how "piracy" is defined in the proposed legislation. The chances are good, however, that "piracy" is defined as broadly as possible, including many acts traditionally protected as "fair use" such as copying for your own personal use.
  • Everyone is saying they're glad the RIAA didn't go through with this, but I'm wondering if I'm a bit disappointed.

    I am in the "it needs to get a whole lot worse before it can get better" camp.

    We need something to happen that exposes to the common man just how unmanageable our government has become. Currently, it appears only a few people are outraged and the rest are blissfully happy with the status quo. We need truly intolerable laws passed, instead of the merely annoying ones we have today. Only then will there be an impulse for change. Change at the business end of farm implements, for example. You think Middle Eastern terrorism is ugly? You haven't seen what pissed off Americans can do if given a
    strong enough cause.

    But we are nowhere near the point of outrage.
    So far we are only approaching "inconvenience for
    the literate". Perhaps if there were a few hundred thousand done like Skylarov. Perhaps not.
    A million political prisoners in the drug war and the attendant outrage hasn't brought down the ability of the government to operate. It would take something bigger than that. We have a long way to go before the average American is upset enough to withhold his support of the government.
    A very, very long way. Copyright law isn't ever going to rise to this level, not even if we reach the "right to read" problems.

    Take away TV, raise the price of crude oil to, oh, $600.00 a barrel, and prohibit alcohol and tobacco, and you might have a revolution on your hands. Anything less, and we'll probably roll over and take it.

If you steal from one author it's plagiarism; if you steal from many it's research. -- Wilson Mizner

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