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Rugby Ball Meets Web-Cam 145

Posted by Hemos from the cross-breeding dept.
comcn writes "What do you get when you cross a rugby ball with a web-cam? The BBC have an article about a polytechnic in New Zealand that is in the process of creating a camera that is small and light enough to fit inside a rugby ball. Boy, are you going to get a headache when watching rugby on TV now."
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Rugby Ball Meets Web-Cam More

Rugby Ball Meets Web-Cam

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  • Putting a camera in a baseball would be interesting. Or a basketball. Might screw up the weighting though.

    • Re:What's next? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What's next? Anything, the floodgates are open now..they -might- even put a blue comet-tail on hockey pucks in televised games, for all we know.

  • Dizzy (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm so dizzy, my world is spinning,
    because I am watching the rugby on the TV,
    and the ball keeps on a spinning,
    and oh dear, mud on the camera lens already...
    • heh. yeah, I agree. it couldn't really be that great to watch.
      No to mention: "So far, the camera is only able to produce a faint blurry black-and-white image. "

      • Of course, it's just the mud that provides the blurry image.

        Next they'll be adding a small wiper blade to keep the lens clean.

      • Conceptually, the spinning problem is easy to solve.

        Just let the camera rotate independant of the ball, the way current attitude-displays work on aircraft.

        The only problems I can think of are that friction would cause a sort of apparent rocking motion to the viewer, and if the ball bearings (or whatever) sieze up, the balls flight path would be affected. (I.e. the ball would stop spinning as fast, so it would be more likely to go off course.)
    • What you see through it is too unpredictable. When you're dealing with television, every second costs money. At any given time, they'll only be using the best view available. They determine that largely by preview and knowing what's already on that video feed.

      The ball changes hands too quickly for those previews to be reliable.

      What they'll probably do is collect stills during the game, and use them for various functions afterwards.

  • If you didnt know (Score:5, Funny)

    by isorox ( 205688 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:03PM (#2605146) Homepage Journal
    Rugby is kind of like American Football, except tough. Theres no pamby helmets, no 5 foot thick shoulder pads, no 3 minutes breaks every 3 seconds. etc. etc. Just a pure blood bath.

    • Re:If you didnt know (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This is true, people regularly break their necks and backs playing rugby at school in the UK (and probably in other rugby playing countries). Kids are forced to play rugby despite not liking the game or the act of putting ones head between two sweaty muddy teammates legs.

      There doesn't appear to be any comeuppance for the school that forces their pupils to play rugby against their wishes either, if a pupil should get injured severely. This has got to change, to protect the children (!) from sadistic games teachers.

    • Re:If you didnt know (Score:4, Offtopic)

      by Knunov ( 158076 ) <eat@my.ass> on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:32PM (#2605229) Homepage
      While I was working in Europe, I had this discussion about a thousand times with the various European nationalities, but especially the English and Scottish.

      The mechanics of American Football necessitate protective gear. The size mismatches alone make it a requirement.

      A common scenario in American football is a 180-pound receiver, standing completely still while catching a mid-field pass, being slammed into by a 250-pound linebacker running top speed. This generally does not happen in rugby.

      Without pads, there would be regular incidents (as in every game) of broken bones, paralyzed players and even deaths.

      In the spirit of fairness, I offered to demonstrate this fact to a particularly loudmouthed Scottsman, that happened to be a former rugby player. I weigh 230 solid pounds at 6' 1".

      We were in a hotel bar, at the time. So we stepped into the first floor hallway, and he walked to the far end. Some people from the bar gathered to watch.

      He stood at the end of the hall and braced for impact. I ran as fast as I could and dove into his stomach using my shoulder as the impact site.

      When he regained conciousness 3 minutes later, he was more understanding of my point of view. After he vomited on himself, that is.

      As if the skeletons and musculature of rugby players are somehow sturdier than a football player's...

      Knunov
      • A common scenario in American football is a 180-pound receiver, standing completely still while catching a mid-field pass, being slammed into by a 250-pound linebacker running top speed. This generally does not happen in rugby.

        You have quite obviously never seen a full back flattened when trying to make a "fair catch" (which requires standing still and shouting "mark" whilst catching) then.
        • Agreed. I was knocked out of bounds a good two meters by a 2nd row forward once. I way 175 lbs on a good day and get hit by guys who are 220 at a fairly regular pace during the match. It hurts, but it hurts the other guy too.

          I saw a guy get his leg broken in a Rutgers soccer match (Go RU!) a couple of weeks ago by getting kicked by another player. It does not take a major collision or a helmet to break a bone.

          The only thing the pads do is make you think that you are protected.

          Take a look at the 2000 numbers for catastrophic football injuries. The important thing to note is that the most common injuries occur while TACKLING rather than while BEING TACKLED.

          http://www.unc.edu/depts/nccsi/CataFootballInjur ie s.htm

          Now here is a study of rugby

          http://www.unc.edu/depts/nccsi/CataFootballInjur ie s.htm

          Be carefull looking for Rugby statistics from Australia, because many also include australian rules football.

      • Here in Canada many high schools have both Rugby and Football teams. I know many who played on both teams and to a man they all agree that football is the more dangerous of the two. Blocking, tackling at the knees or from behind are normal in football and forbidden in rugby.

        Rugby is a very cool game. Rugby players are a very tough bunch of blokes, of that I have no doubt. But without equipment who would dive head first into someone's knees?

        • instability of the universe? (Score:5, Funny)

          by _ganja_ ( 179968 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @08:44PM (#2605409) Homepage
          I'd never thought I'd see the day when a geek site was arguing if football or rugby players are "harder".


          Of course I hope you understand that in order to maintain ballance in the universe there are two prop forwards sitting in a bar drinking Jolt and arguing if the Cube will kick the ass of the Xbox.


          • Oh, dear lord, I just spewed beverage... that's the funniest post I've seen in weeks.

            Rock on :). Moderators, this is a fine example of the gems that can be found if you browse a few levels deep... please mod up! I want others to enjoy this as well :).

        • League

          Yep there are no rules against that sort of thing in Rugby League

          & Rugby League players cope ok without helmets, padding or ballet tights.

          You're talking about Rugby Union, AKA 'rugby', which is altogether a different game to Rugby League, AKA 'league'.

          League is quite different with much of the rucking 'n mauling replaced by tackles 'n 'play-the-balls' [amnrl.com]

          'League' is pretty big in Northern England, the East coast of Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand's North Island & some of the older industrial towns of France. Although no where near as big as Union.

          Also 'League' probably translates better to the small screen than any other football code

          Football (Soccer), American Football, & Aussie Rules are great games to watch live, but they don't really translate well to the small screen (the games are too spread out). For example take the srimmaging & forward pass of American Football, which don't work well at all on telly (too much going on all over the place).

          Where-as 'league' is perfect for telly - the camera just has to follow the ball to get all the action of almost continued 3 on 1 tackles.

          Check this game here [telstra.com] (Windows Media Player + broadband, unless you want a postage stamp size screen).

          Yes you can now watch both Rugby League Test Internationals & 1st grade Club Rugby League on the web.
      • First it was "Funny" ... now it's "Flamebait"

        What's next? Offtopic? This is rediculous!

        Can't wait to metamod tonight.
      • Sure, however in American football you essentially have two teams per side - one for offence and one for defence.

        Rugby, on the other hand, doesn't. In rugby you don't have such a mismatch of brute force, so you don't generally have huge slabs of meat pounding into pork-chop runners (sorry for the analogy).

      • in rugby you're only allowed to perform mayhem on the person with the ball .... other than that Rugby is evry bit as violent as US football - plus they don't stop for add breaks (in many way it's more like soccer - the game keeps moving and doesn't stop for everyone to regain their breath every few minutes).



        Of course the really tough Rugby playesr are from Tonga/Samoa/Fiji .... not only do they not play with padding or helmets .... but boots too ....

      • A common scenario in American football is a 180-pound receiver, standing completely still while catching a mid-field pass, being slammed into by a 250-pound linebacker running top speed. This generally does not happen in rugby.

        Actually this happens all the time in rugby and as a 250 pound linebacker / prop forward it is one of my personal favorites. :-) One contact does not prove your point. I got knocked out cold by a scrum half once, it can happen to anyone.

        This is why rugby player are tougher: You play the WHOLE game, no huddle, no stopping. The only way to understand this is to think of a football player that plays offence, defense and special teams and also runs around in a circle while everyone else is in the huddle

        You don't understand tough until you've been running around a field (twice the size of an American fottbal field) for an hour, get your face stepped on 4 times in rucks, scrummed against a pack that outweighs your side by four hundred pounds and had an entire line out come down on your back.

        A man that can do that and then drag his bruised, bleeding body into the club and drink until four in the morning with a grin on his face is a HARD man.

      • A common scenario in American football is a 180-pound receiver, standing completely still while catching a mid-field pass, being slammed into by a 250-pound linebacker running top speed. This generally does not happen in rugby.

        You clearly haven't played rugby. I am an American (living in Budapest right now), and I do play rugby all over Central/Eastern Europe.

        A winger in rugby (the guys out next to the sidelines) is usually a very small guy. They need to be fast, not big. (Read: Wide Receiver in American football.)

        However, they need to run against whoever faces them. And usually that is not one, but two or three guys. And if the scrum has been anywhere near by, that means a 150 lb winger running into props and forwards, usually more than one, at over 250 lbs per.

        This, of course, is Rugby Union. Not Rugby League.

        FYI,
        - Christian
        Budapest, Hungary

    • I actually play football (high school) and althought there is no contact that would end up in blood, like rugby, these "five-foot thick" shoulderpads extend the physical possibilities of the game.

      In rugby, you get punched and get forced to eat dirt, and break your nose.

      In football, you'll just get knocked so hard you'll either get the wind knocked out of you, or a 300-pound guy will fall on your ankle, or you get a concussion. Its like wearing boxing gloves: without them it hurts to punch someone, but with them you are able to give a deadly blow with no pain at all.

      Two fine sports, hardcore in their own ways.
  • Now we can get all those close-up shots of the players sweaty arm-pits that we've been dying to see for so long! yay! Some has too much time on their hands I think...

  • how exciting (Score:2, Funny)

    by Juln ( 41313 )
    As usual, the rest of the media has already been trumped by the porn industry (the legendary (...) Dildo Cam!! Second only to the X10).
    I can't imagine the view from the ball being particulary entertaining, compared to actually being able to see what the hell is going on.
    • > As usual, the rest of the media has already been trumped by the porn industry

      Yes, but you can't make a whole rugby ball out of transparent perspex, nor make people play rugby inside a CAT scanner[1], so this is more of a technical challenge.

      [1] http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7225/1596
      "Magnetic resonance imaging of male and female genitals during coitus and female sexual arousal"

  • Blurry images. (Score:4, Funny)

    by PopeAlien ( 164869 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:09PM (#2605165) Homepage Journal
    So far, the camera is only able to produce a faint blurry black-and-white image.

    Gee. I cant wait until it can produce hi-rez full color faint blurry images.. What a scientific advance!

  • While you're at it... (Score:5, Funny)

    by trilucid ( 515316 ) <pparadis@havensystems.net> on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:10PM (#2605171) Homepage Journal

    As long as we're gonna go around modding out rugby balls to give us "most excellent" visual shots, why not continue with this new tradition of improving on the game...

    You could place internally stabilizing gyroscopes inside the thing to ensure the "always perfect" pass. Heck, if you're gonna do that, why not mod it out with anti-intercept electronic countermeasures too? Opposing player tryin' to snag the ball? No worries, mate... it's packing more punch than a hand-held taser.

    Geez, this game could be really fun. :)

    Web hosting by geeks, for geeks. Now starting at $4/month (USD)! [trilucid.com]
    If you're gonna email, use the public key!

  • Wait a minute... (Score:2, Informative)

    by hyyx ( 447405 )
    I know this may be the first time that someone has sucessfully installed a video camera inside a rugby ball, but haven't video cameras that are miniature, lightweight, and durable been around for SOME time now? What about football (American) helmet cams? Do a search anywhere for miniature video cameras. It just doesn't seem like that great of a technological feat...

    • It's really incredibly small. The thing about helmet cams is that they don't have to worry about throwing the helmet balance off; a rugby ball has to have a specific balance, or the rugby players will get even more hurt than usual :)

      The consequence of this is that the rugby ballcam has to be really, really lightweight, so the players won't notice it being there.

      • I saw is on the news. It's about the same size as a 9v battery, and runs off one to.
        They are also making software/hardware, that will stablize the picture when the ball is rotating, so it doesn't look like someone's put a handycam in a washing machine.
    • yep, there have been stump-cams in cricket for some years now.
  • Geez! Blair-witch ruined the movies for me... is this going to ruin my sports-tv experience too? Motion sickness is hell... I love roller coasters, but damn if they don't make me puke. I guess I'm in the minority have-to-look-out-the-front-of-the-car group here, but does rugby really need this? They way crap moves I doubt its going to be very fun to watch.

    If there's a steadycam or fish-eye lens, it might help... with fish-eye you can see who had their hands on the ball!

  • How about a camera inside a baseball? That would make for some interesting video and would probably help umpires make better calls.

  • Why? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why are we doing this? Would it really add something to a game to be able to watch from the ball? I can understand putting the cameras in players helmets and stuff to get a better view of what they're seeing.

    But will this really do that? Would it really see a steady picture or would it just be a blur? As for football, I think the XFL had the right idea in listening in on the huddle and stuff, of FOX putting a camera on the referee or umpire, because it would actually add something to watching the game. I know this is the idea with this, too, as the article says, to show better what goes on in a scrum or something, but it is difficult to see how this would provide a good shot. Nice idea, but a waste of time, I think.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the article doesn't seem to answer my questions.

  • First Photos of modded rugby ball (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:31PM (#2605228)
    Look here [ntlworld.com] for one of the first pictures of a rugby ball with video camera capabilities...
  • Wasn't it the BBC who had a snooker cue camera a while ago? ISTR it worked quite well until the player chalked it...
  • One of the guys who runs the rugby league clicked on one of those x10.com ads and got an idea.. ordered one up, and put it inside the rugby ball.

    And who says ads are evil? =P

  • More links (Score:5, Informative)

    by comcn ( 194756 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @07:43PM (#2605262) Journal

    Since posting the story, I've found a better link to the Otago Daily Times [odt.co.nz]. The story there [odt.co.nz] has a rather good picture of the ball with the camera in it.

    Also, here's a link to the Otago Polytechnic [tekotago.ac.nz].

  • We've been amazed how this has taken off as a new item when there's so much to do before making decent usable pictures.

    The Otago Polytechnic students who came up with the idea of ramming the camera into the end of a ball have been working on a much more interesting project (imho) of creating a pressure sensing system [tekotago.ac.nz] inside the tiny pads that some rugby players wear.

    Hopefully Dr Samuel Mann, the supervisor of the students that are playing with this will drop in with a note. Dave

  • This thing will never sell until they figure out how to work it into sextoys...
  • The most impressive way to do this would be to have every surface of the ball be a lens, each one recording all the time and broadcasting all the results to a base station. Then the base station could choose which of all the cameras was currently facing forward and digitally rotate and merge the images from all of the cameras to produce a smooth flowing, forward looking shot from an otherwise crazily spinning ball.

    Now THAT would be cool.
  • I could see the NFL using ball cams as an aid for the referees. Suppose a wide receiever and a defender were trying to go for the ball. The two players were trying to get in the best position. The referee calls offensive pass interference, but the call is challenged from the booth. The referee has the ball cam and any other cameras recording the play in question to determine if the penalty should be thrown out. The ball cam could have the best vantage point because of it most likely being comparable to an extreme close-up of a shot from the blimp.
    • Pass interference can't be challenged, though. Only some calls can be challenged, and that's not one of them. Some games only have seven cameras, though, so if you want instant replay to be effective, use all the camera angles they have in nationally televised games.
    • As soon as QB's throw knuckle balls on a regular basis, sure, it might work.

      This would only work if a cam was mounted on the tip, the pass was a tight spiral, and it had a hi-frame-rate cam to power it along w/ some software at the receiving station to un-rotate the image.

  • Rugby can also be found here [rugbytown.co.uk].

  • so... (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by British ( 51765 )
    Does this rugby ball have an Amazon Wishlist, blogger, or Yahoo fanclub yet?
  • In shock protection, anyways.
  • We're supposed to associate this with the "other" cams that are deployed over there where they play rugby. Right?

    Ok then, I'll start, I'll start. Just a minute, stop pushing!

  • How about this: Make a lot of tiny cameras and put them all over the rugby ball. These cameras will film everything going on around the ball. A computer could take these images and connect their edges, the way many still photographs can be attached to produce a 360-degree photo. The computer could remove unwanted spinning motion from the film. Or something like that. Oh well.

  • I suspect a rugby ball microcam would produce pictures akin to a running washing machine filled with 30 burly blokes & mud... but other types of cams & tech might work better, maybe.

    I remember the XFL used a few innovative ideas (apart from those pneumatic cheerleaders), such as padded cameramen in the middle of the field, or cameras on cables above the field, or cameras in the lockerroom... ARGH! Maybe not that one. Rugby referees are now miked, can talk to their touch judges (sideline refs), and can call for TV ref to assist if things are too close to call. I think all these improvements are good, but as long as they add polish to the game, not change it.

    People said the XFL in-your-face angles made it confusing, and annoying. The same has been said about coverage for competitive computer gaming, where the best spectator view is often NOT that of the player. This is why Valve created their spectator mode for Counter-Strike, so you could sit back "in the stands" and watch the teams work.

    shut up man
  • ...too be getting X10 pop-under ads. Otherwise, they would know that they could order this stuff for under $100 over the web (blond babe not included).
    • Would an X10 cam fit in a rugby ball? Include image stablizing software? Handle being thowen round and crushed by big rugby players? Are X10 developing cams that will be usefill in broudcast television?

      Even if X10 do. It's a project. It would be a bit pointless to just buy the stuff.

      They're also doing a helmet cam. The only helmet cams I've every seen a big and clumsy looking, not something that would be allowed in a game.
      And they've inserted pressure pads into the players top to measure the impact force of tackles.

      These a bit more going on than just shoving some crusty X10-like cam into a ball for the hell of it.

  • Information for Americans (Score:3, Informative)

    by innit ( 79854 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @08:52PM (#2605421) Homepage

    Here is some information on Rugby for our American viewers. It's basically like your version of "football", except with a number of differences:

    • The players don't wear massive amounts of padding like the poofters that play American football do
    • There's none of this "having a rest every 5 minutes" rubbish. It's constant action from start to finish
    • No helmet is used by the players. Instead they use insultating tape to stick their ears to their heads to prevent them from getting ripped off
    • It's played in wet, muddy fields, not on specially treated multicoloured tarmac with dedicated areas laid out for cheerleaders
    • The commentators aren't nearly as irritating, although most of them are Welsh so obviously we're not perfect on that one

    There. Now if you could do the same for us every time Thanksgiving/Independance Day/Labour Day comes around, we'd be most awfully grateful.

    Bung ho, chaps

    Stuii!

    • Aye And don't forget the only thing that will stop a rugby match is if the rugby pitch is set on fire, and explodes. Rain is just a 'feature'. Snow and sleet, its just added 'fun'. And maoris play it too, and they are hard as rocks! Ferret
    • Speaking of the Welsh... One or our side is a Welshman, but we call him "Frenchy" just to piss him off! What's even funnier is that our coach is French and HE calls him "Frenchy"!!!

      If you can't make fun of the French and the Welsh, who can you make fun of?

      • If you can't make fun of the French and the Welsh, who can you make fun of?

        Well quite. There's always the Scots I suppose but it isn't nearly as rewarding.

        Of course, the Welsh and the French have deep historic similarities. There's that funny language that's a cross between French and Welsh that they speak in parts of northern France and in areas of Cornwall - "Breton" is it?

        Definately some in-breeding going on there

        Stuii!

  • Battery power (Score:3, Interesting)

    by _ganja_ ( 179968 ) on Friday November 23, 2001 @09:02PM (#2605435) Homepage
    I wonder if there is a way of powering the camera using the balls own inertia? Kinda like the wrist watches that don't use batteries and don't have to be wound? Maybe that technology is behind current battery technology but the ball certainly will do a lot of moving.
  • My gym class teacher in freshman year of highschool was a big redneck and ex pro wrestler (I won't say his name or wrestling name). He had made up this game which was a cross between football, basketball and of course wrestling. It was appropriately named, "warball". The rules went something like this: The class was split up into two large teams who had to score basketball goals, but there were no rules on how to get the ball and you could run with it, and kick it or who was holding it, etc.
    It all started off just like this. Someone threw the ball to me. I couldn't throw it to anybody else because no one wanted it for obvious reasons. I was hit by a running punch which smashed into my nose spurting blood. I then fell into an oh shit I'm dead position. This was shortly followed by being rammed in the chest and head from both sides by the shoulders of no less than 15 people who then procceeded to pound my limp body to the ground ignoring the ball which had already moved downcourt. I crawled to the sidelines to witness the continuing carnage and spilling of blood. I was quickly joined by others that had been seriously beaten and injured.
    Fortunately the very next day our teacher said we had to cancel playing warball because "some crybaby told thier parents and they called the school". We all then recieved a lengthy punishment for being such wusses.
    I don't know much about brits and their rugby, but believe it, down yunder in the states, some of those teachers have us play some rough games too.
    • Believe it or not, in the [Boy] Scouts, we (or at least the over-18s among us) played a similar game, except it was on a grass surface, it was called murder ball, and scoring was as in Rugby or AF but without the conversions. Those details apart, the rules were identical to your war ball rules.
      Despite our putting out the most evil team of six-foot-five psycopathic giants the Scouting or any other world has ever seen, the opponents with the real rugby skills invariably ran rings round us.
  • I already get a headache watching rugby on TV.
    So what's new ?

    Actually, I'd better keep my mouth shut.
    As a white South African male I could be lynched for dissing rugby in public....
    • I already get a headache watching rugby on TV.
      So what's new ?


      It's a common problem. Luckily, the well-known solution is to drink more beer.


      What's that? The beer's giving you a headache? Drink more beer.

  • I would love to see the camera angles with this sort of technology in NFL (passes from quarterback). There would be a problem with rotation though.
  • This ball sounds perfect for what's going to be the next *big* televised sport - the Eton Wall Game, possibly the most violent organised sport ever, and that includes ice hockey, and played only at hyper-posh Eton school in England. Unfortunately because of the nature of the game (one large scrum) there isn't anything for spectators to see because their view of the ball is blocked by a) the wall and b) players - so a video-ball is the techno-breakthrough this sport needs to get to a mass audience. That and Prince Harry, son of Charles and Di, who is on one of the teams.

    More here:
    http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml= %2 Fnews%2F2001%2F11%2F23%2Fnharry23.xml
  • What do you get when you cross a rugby ball with a web-cam?

    The lamest pr0n in the Universe?

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