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Is CD Copy Protection Illegal? 573

ribbiting writes "US Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va. is asking RIAA execs to explain how they can collect royalties on various blank media at the same time that the RIAA members are implementing copy protection mechanisms, with particular reference to the Audio Home Recording Act (AHRA) of 1992." Glad someone is asking the question.
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Is CD Copy Protection Illegal?

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  • by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:00PM (#2788432)
    Y'know, I'm at the point where I'd move to VA just to be able to someday vote for him ;-)
    • by alkali ( 28338 )
      You can always go to his campaign web site and make a contribution -- it's here [boucherforcongress.com].

      (Oddly, for such a tech-savvy guy, he's not set up for secure credit-card contributions over the internet; most campaign web sites are. I usually send amounts totalling $1-2K a year to various campaigns -- usually because their opponent annoys me -- and I almost always contribute by CC.)

      • by DreamingReal ( 216288 ) <dreamingreal&yahoo,com> on Saturday January 05, 2002 @12:15AM (#2789537) Homepage
        Contributing to Boucher's campaign would be a *great* way of fighting fire with fire. He is one of the few friends geeks and media consumers seem to have in Washington. It benefits us all to have him in office. For those of us who do not have the priviledged opportunity to vote for him, contributing money is the next best thing we could do.


        On a related point, your link has got me thinking about philanthropy on Slashdot. I'm still baffled why this site does not run drives to raise money for various causes - like a "Cause of the Month" type of thing. Kuro5hin has been doing this lately. There are always cause de jours that need money (Sklyarov) and the EFF could be the default. Hell, create a Slashdot poll to determine who gets the money for the next month. Taco could set up a Paypal account and donate the proceeds to each cause at the end of the month. Put the link on the homepage and BAM! donate with a single click, as you read.


        Various posters talk about contributing to groups like the EFF - perhaps we can make this a community priority (as well as making it as easy as possible for people to do so).

    • I lived in VA for a while ... never again. But a couple more stories like this, and it will get tempting. Especially every time I see the guy that's apparently glued to the local congressional seat drooling on TV....
    • You are certainly right about Rep. Boucher. I live in the district he serves in SW Virginia, so I also see the local side of things. Boucher seems to work tirelessly in two areas: helping our district (which hasn't been the same since the coal industry has slumped) and technology issues. I don't have warm feelings toward many politicians (I use to be down right cynical), but meeting and listening to one good politician made me reevaluate things.

      Do move to VA, it is a very nice state :)

    • by dackroyd ( 468778 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:41PM (#2788694) Homepage
      Wow, not only did he think arresting Dmitri Sklyarov was a bad idea:

      This unfortunate legal action highlights the overly broad terms of the criminal provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). It clearly demonstrates the intrusion of these provisions on the ability of American citizens to exercise their legally protected fair use rights,
      (http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/sklyarov.htm)

      but he also gets that the entertainment industry wants money off the public everytime you listen to music or watch a movie.

      As NTIA recognized in its letter, one of the foremost concerns reflected in the Congressional report upon passage of the DMCA was that changes in the law could chill the exercise of consumers' traditional "fair use" rights, and move us all toward a "pay-per-use" society.
      Unfortunately, the announced exceptions to the rule are so narrow as to be practically meaningless. Fair use is not protected.
      ...Congress in its next session should act to prevent the creation of a "pay per use" society, in which what is available today on the library shelf for free is available in the future only upon payment of a fee for each use.

      (http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/payperuse.htm )

      Wow! That'll teach the entertainment industry to only give him $18,500 when the telephone industry gave him $49,000 (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/detail.asp ?CID=N00002171&cycle=2000)
    • Of course the more entertaining question is, who would win in a fight, Boucher or Hollings?

      ..I miss the days of good old fashioned Senate floor ass whoopings, we haven't had a good one since before the Civil War.

      Oh well.

  • by tlk nnr ( 449342 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:00PM (#2788436) Homepage
    According to the US constitution, Congress may pass law to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
    But it doesn't have to.
    And several million voters got used to Napster.
    I doubt that there will be any dramatic steps in either direction, but disallowing and preventing everything probably won't happen.
    • by ConceptJunkie ( 24823 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:15PM (#2788543) Homepage Journal
      And several million voters got used to Napster.

      And several billion dollars says Napster shouldn't exist and "fair use" is theft.

      Who wins?


      #include "I_realize_Napster_is_not_equivalent_to_Fair_Use.h "

      • by TheRain ( 67313 )
        when I compile your comment I get the following errors:
        Line 3; undertermined character constant
        Line 8; I_realize_Napster_is_not_equivalent_to_Fair_Use.h: no such file

        can you help me?
        • Did you do a "make CONFIGURE"?

          Did you use the Intensifier Disk? If so, turn it 18 degrees to the left.

          Do you need a European adapter?

          Are you in the Southern Hemisphere? If so, invert your monitor.

      • And several million voters got used to Napster.

        And several billion dollars says Napster shouldn't exist and "fair use" is theft.


        And disillusioned customers stop buying music, so the record companies have the worst year in a long time... Also this attracts the attention of the Senate... Now who wins?
        • by StaticEngine ( 135635 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:07PM (#2788813) Homepage
          And disillusioned customers stop buying music, so the record companies have the worst year in a long time... Also this attracts the attention of the Senate... Now who wins?

          TARKIN: The National Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that Hillary Rosen has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

          TAGGE: That's impossible! How will the RIAA maintain control without the bureaucracy?

          TARKIN: The Major Labels now have direct control over territories. Fear will keep the consumers in line. Fear of the DMCA and the New Police State.
        • by uebernewby ( 149493 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:17PM (#2788860) Homepage
          And disillusioned customers stop buying music, so the record companies have the worst year in a long time...

          OK, I shouldn't really do this, but wtf ...

          Over the past two years or so, over here in the Netherlands at least, more and more "music afficionado's", meaning: "kids who bother to shell out bucks for music other than major label schtick", have been drifting towards more-independent-than-thou electronica, foregoing their usual diet of avantpop and guitar noise etc.

          Why? Lemme take a guess ...

          Like it or not, every form of guitar music excepting the most specialist garage thrash that gets recorded on two track cassette recorders as a matter of principle (as you can see, my own credentials are perfectly in order as well ... I remember the Donnas back when they didn't suck ... do you?) needs some form of label support to pay the atrocious bills of a studio that knows what it's doing.

          On the other hand, for modern day electronica, all you need is a fairly average desktop PC (running Windows or MacOS, I'm sorry to say*), a cd burner and a few thousand EUR or so to press vinyl copies. No record label *ever* gets involved.

          The result is that all truly original music nowadays gets made on a desktop computer, not by some geeky fellows in a mouldy practice space. Why bother with the latter if you can have near perfect sound quality and a near perfect materialisation of your musical vision at a tenth of the cost?

          Support these independent electronica artists by buying their albums, eschew major label shit, and sooner or later you'll have turned the entire musical landscape around just because there's no more need for out of the ordinary equipment to make out of the ordinary music.

          *Maybe some open source sound app developers should take a few pointers from Win/Mac freeware/shareware developers on how to develop music software? Please? I'd love to switch over completely to Linux, but unfortunately, most audio apps suck

          • Your magic phrase was "needs some form of label support to pay the atrocious bills of a studio that knows what it's doing." If you know what you're doing, you can build a computer-based studio for not too much money, and people who want to build studios to help other people record music can now do it for not too much money. (Here in San Francisco, the floor space for the studio now costs much more than the electronics :-) The expensive part is the "knows what they're doing." That's also getting cheaper, at least for the technical side - some of the other studio services, like providing backup musicians, may cost more.

            What the label is providing is knowledge about how to sell music, and how to make music that sells, which is only partially related to how to make music that sounds good. But what they're really providing in return for your soul, first-born child, and ownership of your music is that they're running the business and hiring you to play music for them, like a bar owner hiring you to play for the evening, unlike the computer venture capitalist deal where the VC lends you money, owns much of the stock, but you run the business as well as making the product. Why can't you just buy studio time yourself? Theoretically you can, and if you can market your music successfully, cool. Studios are a lot less expensive than they used to be, but advertising is more expensive, but delivering product is less expensive. It's getting to be time to kick the chair out from under the traditional industry structure.

      • by ToLu the Happy Furby ( 63586 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:25PM (#2788875)
        And several billion dollars says Napster shouldn't exist

        Several more billion dollars says Napster should exist. However, the PC and broadband industries--both of which collapsed in the wake of the Napster decision--do not spend their billions buying Congressmen. (Well, the surviving portion of the broadband industry does, but only because it has been consolidated into the hands of content owners, who of course contributed their billions against Napster.)

        The sad thing is that there was another industry which collapsed, though not quite as precipitously, at exactly the time of the Napster decision. I'm speaking, of course, about the recording industry. All throughout 2000, when Napster grew from almost-zero to 80 million users, IIRC, record sales increased to record levels (yay, a pun!). Sure the economy was good, but 2000 had IIRC the largest rate of increase in something like a decade. (And the economy was good for most of that decade.) Now 2001 is a terrible year for the record industry--which they blame on "piracy", of course, completely disregarding the fact that the decline started almost precisely when Napster got shut down.

        Of course there are other interpretations for why record sales sucked this year, e.g. "the music available sucked." But this is precisely the point--the music you heard about sucked. Maybe the fact that it was suddenly much more difficult (not just Napster, but even more the demise of independent online radio, also due to RIAA lawsuits) to hear about new bands and sample their music had something to do with this??

        The Napster case was just like the Sony Betamax case...the only difference was which side won. We know what the long-term consequences of losing the Betamax case were for the MPAA--roughly half of their income. The comparison with the RIAA's "victory" over Napster should prove enlightening...
        • by Chasing Amy ( 450778 ) <asdfijoaisdf@askdfjpasodf.com> on Friday January 04, 2002 @10:53PM (#2789286) Homepage
          Come to think of it, when I had Napster at my beck and call I downloaded a lot of music (for a 56k guy, that is--if only I had my cable uplink back then!). But I also bothered to go out and buy CDs, something I seldom did before and haven't done since.

          When I had Napster, I logged into its chatrooms, talked with people, and got pointers on what to listen to. Then I downloaded a few songs, listened--and if I liked I often went out and bought a CD. That's how I got intorduced to music like Cat Power and P.J. Harvey. But even when I could find > 160kbps MP3s of their songs, I still often wanted the better sound and the liner notes and images of the CDs.

          A trip to Best Buy to pick up some blank CDs or a new PCI card or game often led to a new CD purchase, too. But not any more. I don't get introduced to new music I really like, since MTV is 99% kiddie-pop or shitty rapcrap, VH1 is 90% stuff I heard 10 years ago, and nowhere else is there in my area to get into music and explore.

          I think that's what the RIAA bitches don't understand. The piracy angle is insignificant if the side-channels it creates get millions of people to be more enthusiastic about music and let them find the kind of music they really want. You see, it turns a largely indifferent market--and let's face it, unless you're a child or young adult into the MTV sort of demographic, the odds are you're pretty indifferent about music and only buy it on occasion--into the same sort of excited MTV-kiddiez who rush out to buy the latest NSYNC crapola, only about a far broader range of music. For every Britney Spears lover who downloads her whole new album at 128kbps instead of buying the CD, there are several people who sample a few dozen tracks and then get inspired to buy a CD or two when they never would have bought one before.

          That's exactly the sort of person I met in the Napster chatrooms quite often. I mean, if they were still in print I'd buy every Cat Power album ever recorded, all thanks to someone at the Napster forums, and I know there are lots of others who'd say the same about an artist they never would have known but for online "piracy."

          Incidentally, if anyone can point me to a copy of Cat Power's "Darling Said Sir" from one of her old out of print singles, I NEED THAT SONG. I can't find it, not even in online record stores, and only have a very bad and scratchy MP3 of it at 128kbps. I had to mention it beause I've been searching for sooooo long.

          Anyway, I think the nail has been hit right on the head. All those increased record sales pre-Napster shutdown were due to ordinary people becoming excited music lovers and buying music they never would have known about before. The decline in music sales ever since has been due to the fact that no real replacement for Napster's community exists yet--no place with an easy interface that anyone and everyone can log into, with integrated chat functions and real ease of finding almost anything at almost any bitrate. I've tried stuff like Limewire, WinMX, Kazaa/Morpheus--each has fatal flaws. Some lack Napster's nice integrated chat communities. Some only find crappy 128k music and won't let you limit your seaches to better quality stuff. Some is too hard for an average guy to use. Some are just too obscure with too few users. Some never provide stable connections when you try to make a transfer.

          In short, nothing is what Napster was. If the recording industry were to be beaten within an inch of its life with a clue-stick, it would realize that what it needs to do is just remake Napster exactly like it was, with open MP3 and OGG file formats freely allowed, with a reasonable subscription fee to be doled out to artists and labels according to number of downloads for each song. If it were a reasonable flat monthly fee and the file formats were open and unencumbered, most old Napster users and a bunch more would jump on it--as I said, the other file trading networks just aren't as good, with all the features and ease and connectivity Napster had. And most people would continue to buy CDs, and just as before a lot of non-CD-buyers would become CD buyers thanks to the music they're introduced to. Let's face it: a real album still usually offers something an MP3 doesn't. Tangibility. Pictures. Notes and information about the band and the album production. Show-off-ability--easier to point a friend to an album on the shelf and tell him how great it is, than to point him to your hard drives.

          Not that I like the RIAA, but they could have easily consolidated their power over the industry into the next millennium by embracing Napster and working with it toward a fee-based licensing regime. Instead, by fighting the new media, and trying to impose control under their own unnatural terms, they're pissing away their power and influence. Stupid, stupid RIAA.
          • by Kwil ( 53679 )
            I think that's what the RIAA bitches don't understand. The piracy angle is insignificant if the side-channels it creates get millions of people to be more enthusiastic about music and let them find the kind of music they really want.

            Actually, I tend to think that the RIAA does understand this and it scares the crap out of them. After all, if the audience splits off into a million niche groups, you know how much that adds to the companies marketing expenses?

            It also gives smaller labels (that aren't part of the RIAA and paying their dues to it) access to a wider market. If there's anything the RIAA doesn't want, it's to be relegated to a non-essential, because retailers start stocking from the small labels because consumers are demanding the music from the small labels.

            On the otherhand, if the market is only half as big, but can be neatly advertised to in 4 large chunks of demographics, and belongs entirely to RIAA members.. it's more profit.
  • In Canada... (Score:2, Redundant)

    by MadCow42 ( 243108 )
    A few years back they added a "tax" to recordable media to "help compensate the recording industry" for pirating that happens on such media.

    Now, if the RIAA were to "prevent" (haha) such pirating through copy protection, why should they get to double-dip by continuing to collect the revenues from that "tax"?

    You can't have your Cake and Rip it too.

    MadCow.
    • Re:In Canada... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous DWord ( 466154 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:05PM (#2788483) Homepage
      It's not a tax, it's a "levy." :) But the RIAA doesn't really have anything to do with that in Canada. The money goes to Canadian artists, based on record sales, which is the part that bugs me. They could give all this cash (22c/disc, currently) to promote up-and-coming bands, but it's all going to Celine Dion and Bryan Adams. GenericGarageBand doesn't see a dime. Not to mention every time you download and burn *BSD (Linux/Solaris/whatever), you're giving money to the music industry.
    • IT wasn't to compensate them for pirating.
      It was to compensate them for the lost revenue when someone makes a copy of a CD for their car, or to take to the office, or makes their own mix instead of buying it from the record company.
    • Re:In Canada... (Score:3, Interesting)

      >why should they get to double-dip

      You mean like the U.S. Government taxing your income, then taxing it again when you invest it and make money? And taxing it again if you use that money to pay an employee? ...

  • by Breakfast Pants ( 323698 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:01PM (#2788448) Journal
    I think we all know the answer though. A massive bribe by the RIAA's lobbyists should answer any of the congressman's dilemas.
  • by mfos.org ( 471768 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:01PM (#2788450)
    This seems similar to the Bells and AT&T selling the consumer Caller ID, then CID blocker to the telemarketers, then selling caller id blocker blocker to the consumer, then ....
  • They must be, and this (which I, like many other /.-ers, apparently, hadn't thought of before even though it makes perfect sense) proves it.

    Or does it? It's still possible to make *analog* copies of cd's, just not *digital* ones. Does the law state anything about allowing analog (imperfect) but not digital (perfect) copies?
  • Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by fluxrad ( 125130 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:03PM (#2788458)
    From the article:

    The labels are worried that the rise of home CD-burners has eaten into album sales, particularly after the worst year in a decade for the music industry.

    These sales figures couldn't possibly shaped by the fact that the RIAA is releasing the shittiest music in a decade, could it?
    • ...and not to mention at the highest price!
    • Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AJWM ( 19027 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:14PM (#2788538) Homepage
      Nah...

      Nor by the fact that this has been about the worst year in a decade for a lot of other industries, too.

      Or does RIAA think themselves exempt from a recession?
      • Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)

        by gnovos ( 447128 ) <gnovos@ c h i p p e d . net> on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:29PM (#2788626) Homepage Journal
        Nah...

        Nor by the fact that this has been about the worst year in a decade for a lot of other industries, too.

        Or does RIAA think themselves exempt from a recession?


        Well, I don't know about you, but when I am facing the doors of my company closing in two weeks, with no savings, a $2000 a month rent, and a tough struggle to find a new job looming bigger and bigger every day, there is only one thing on my mind...

        Buying N'Sync's Greatest Hits at full retail price that may or may not play on my CD player!
      • Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bill66inma ( 111635 )
        Actually, in times of recession, low-cost forms of entertainment like movies and recorded music do fairly well. People like to be distracted. People will also buy small luxuries when they can't afford big ones. This is, perhaps, part of the RIAA's thinking: "We're in a recession, and our revenues have traditionally held steady in recessionary times."

        Cases in point: the 1930s were one of the high points of the movie industry. Ditto stage musicals. People would gladly pay a quarter to go to the movies and forget their troubles for a couple hours. The recession of the early 1990s was also when things like Starbuck's got a boost. People who can't afford a new car will spend $4 on a cup of coffee.

        Of course, considering movie ticket and CD prices these days, one can hardly consider movies and recorded music cheap entertainment anymore.
    • It's been the worst year in almost a decade for _most_ industries... Except BS production, but if you could charge for that all /.ers would be millionaires...
    • Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MadAhab ( 40080 ) <slasher@@@ahab...com> on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:29PM (#2788624) Homepage Journal
      It's worse than that. I think they haven't produced music this shitty in 40 years. Note that during the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there were major challenges from outside the industry. Naturally, since they have the distribution racket figured out, and since they know how to dupe naive trend-followers, latecomer bands, into shitty contracts and then promote the hell out of those bands like they are the real thing, most people don't know the damn difference, meanwhile they buy up the newer, smaller labels who are often close to burning out anyway trying to ride their wave as hard as they can. Pretty soon they are back to producing bland, manageable pap as usual. But during the 90s, you had only the corpse of the late 80s (why do you think Kurt killed himself?) and nothing really new has crossed the pipes except the mainstreaming of hip-hop into a trillion lookalike boring videos.

      Meanwhile, since the major labels are ALL part of the major entertainment companies, they've figured out how to cross-promote like hell, which may be part of how they are succeeding better than usual at keeping their lame crap on top - people like what they already know and they make damn sure you know about it. And if you don't believe me, ask yourself how many events you've seen on ABC where Brittany, that boy band, and Aerosmith are all present, sometimes on the stage at the same time, and said "Fuck me mickey".

      • "It's worse than that. I think they haven't produced music this shitty in 40 years. Note that during the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there were major challenges from outside the industry. Naturally, since they have the distribution racket figured out, and since they know how to dupe naive trend-followers, latecomer bands, into shitty contracts and then promote the hell out of those bands like they are the real thing, most people don't know the damn difference, meanwhile they buy up the newer, smaller labels who are often close to burning out anyway trying to ride their wave as hard as they can. Pretty soon they are back to producing bland, manageable pap as usual."

        Something just hit me. This is so obvious to me now based on what you just said and based on my previous comment [slashdot.org].

        You know how in 1984 by George Orwell, he talks about the "Versificator" (it's in Part II, chapter IV)?

        I'll quote it for you:

        "The tune had been haunting London for weeks past. It was one of countless similar songs published for the benefit of the proles by a sub-section of the Music Department. The words of these songs were composed without any human intervention on an instrument known as a versificator." - George Orwell, 1984, Part II, Chapter IV

        And so here we are today with clone-bands singing cloned songs that all sounds the same. Have you noticed that "oops i did it again" and "baby one more time" have the same music and different words? Doesn't it seem like those BSB and NSync songs all sound the same and are cranked out from the same machine-liked process? There are other songs within (and between!) the boyband groups with the same music and different lyrics. Try finding them. You'll be surprised.

        I'm not sure which idea scares me most:
        1. In this picture, WE (or at least most of the wealthy countries' youth of today) are the proles.
        2. Most people don't even have a clue how accurately our situation portrays a portion of Orwell's book that was written decades ago.

    • Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Interesting)

      "These sales figures couldn't possibly shaped by the fact that the RIAA is releasing the shittiest music in a decade, could it?"

      I agree that the music stinks, but it DOES sell...

      Since BSB, Nsync, Britney, etc are "made" bands instead of real musicians, there aren't issues like 'artistic differences' and the band members getting a cut of the music that they wrote (because they didn't write it.) They're just paid for being celeberties and singing/dancing/appearing in person at events. And in terms of enconomics, it brings in billions for the music labels and sellers of associated merchandise because the 12-year-olds eat it up.

      Heck, these so-called 'musicians' are not even artists. They don't make their music. They don't design their costumes or choreography. They just perform routines made by nameless individuals in the Ministry of Art.*

      Until the boyband/breastimplantgirl music sales model doesn't bring in the dough anymore, we can expect the industry to shove these groups down our throats even harder. We'll just have to hope that they shove too hard resulting in the groups being "old," "stale" or "uncool" in the eyes of the kids. This and nothing else will bring them down.

      *the "Ministry of Art" is akin to the Ministry of Truth and the Ministry of Love.

  • They can either make it hard to dupilicate (read rip) cd's OR take a cut on every blank (audio) cd made. .... Assuming this holds up (which it should)

    What they will have to do is figure out if they make more from the pennies they get on those blank Audio CDs (Humm ... Have you ever bought a box of those?), DATs, and MDs compared to how much they think they loose by people not buying CDs since they pirate them.

    In this case, the RIAA cant have their cake if you can't eat it :-)
  • The 'blank media' tax has been touted in every country it's been implimented in as a way to pay publishers and artists for the perceived costs of media copying, be it fair use or piracy.

    In the U.S., the media companies get a large piece of that fee.

    That they want the right to collect both this fee *and* impliment copy controls is what is being questioned here.

    Personally, I think it should boil down to one or the other. Pay the tax or pay for copy protected CD's. Not that either is really effective, but...

    Hopefully, Boucher will raise a large enough stink over this that it will actually cause some changes. Not likely, but there's always hope...
    • by dragons_flight ( 515217 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:29PM (#2788625) Homepage
      Well the next question is what do we want?

      If you follow the music industry line of reasoning then copy protection should boost sales by curbing piracy. If it's really as big a deal as they want you to believe then this should more than offset the loss of the tax. Hence by economics of scale, we should see cheaper music and cheaper digital media. Of course all of that is predicated on the assumption that the recording industry isn't entirely made up of monopolistic money-grubbing pigs.

      Alternatively we can throw copy protection in the trash and keep the high music costs and artificially inflated digital media costs.

      Is there a winning situation for the consumer? Not really, unless you can believe that RIAA represents a fair, economically sound industry and you don't care about fair use rights.
  • by Sydney Weidman ( 187981 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:03PM (#2788464) Homepage
    Let's face it. The entertainment industry is the biggest pirate in town. They steal your music, your culture, your ideas, your stories, your language, mass produce it, shrink-wrap it and then sell it back to you.


    Intellectual property laws have done their job -- they've created a massive amount of stuff -- some good, some bad. But now the system is choking itself.


    Copy protection schemes are the wrong target.

    • Mod parent up! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by aussersterne ( 212916 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:10PM (#2788514) Homepage
      They steal your music, your culture, your ideas, your stories, your language, mass produce it, shrink-wrap it and then sell it back to you.

      This is exactly the problem... The RIAA/MPAA are the forces driving western culture into the ground, creating generations of bumbling, sex-mad idiots with carbon-copy personalities and giving capitalism a bad name.

      Aside from any legal problems, I think it's damned unethical the way today's media giants operate.
    • "Let's face it. The entertainment industry is the biggest pirate in town. They steal your music, your culture, your ideas, your stories, your language, mass produce it, shrink-wrap it and then sell it back to you."

      One of the main functions of mass media is the perpetuation and dissemination of culture. Although RIAA may be greedy about it, why is the dissemination of culture bad necessarily?

      In most cultures, people are willing to pay for reflexive representation of values they hold. Whether it's a poster for the movie Pi or an N'Sync album, both are cultural representations and perpatuations...and people are willing to pay for both. Why is this bad?

      • by Sydney Weidman ( 187981 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:58PM (#2788777) Homepage
        One of the main functions of mass media is the perpetuation and dissemination of culture. Although RIAA may be greedy about it, why is the dissemination of culture bad necessarily?

        It's not bad at all. It's just that the uniformity and ubiquitousness of the content is the result of corporate design, not social interaction.

        I am really happy about local and regional culture getting recognition alongside the mass produced stuff. Just because it isn't a worldwide phenomena doesn't mean it's not culture.

        In most cultures, people are willing to pay for reflexive representation of values they hold. Whether it's a poster for the movie Pi or an N'Sync album, both are cultural representations and perpatuations...and people are willing to pay for both. Why is this bad?


        It's not, really. What's bad is the manner in which cultural representations are distributed and then *controlled* by virtue of IP laws and copy protection and such. Also, in order to mass produce culture, you have to mass market it which means it has to be low-risk, watered-down, drab, inoffensive, and facile. Lowest common denominator. I love culture, but not stuff that's been bleached and de-boned.
        • by cduffy ( 652 )
          It's great that you can complain about how mass media is destroying your culture... but what do you propose to do about it? Establish some government oversight preventing more than 20K copies of any CD from being distributed? Require the taxpayers to fund the publication of any artist who thinks they have something worth distributing?

          Capitalism may be a poor method of resource distribution -- but there is none better.
          • It's great that you can complain about how mass media is destroying your culture... but what do you propose to do about it?

            Here are just a few suggestions:
            • Just stop protecting intellectual property. We've already got more than enough of it.
            • Support local theatre (by going out and enjoying it)
            • Support live music (by going out and enjoying it)
            • Write songs for the fun of it.

            The common thread is that it's better to be a participant in culture than just a consumer of it.

            Capitalism may be a poor method of resource distribution -- but there is none better.

            Man, you are so, like, missing the point. Even if a perfectly efficient information market *were* possible, I would still be happier with art and culture of a local or regional nature.
  • Did we do this? (Score:4, Informative)

    by gnovos ( 447128 ) <gnovos@ c h i p p e d . net> on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:04PM (#2788474) Homepage Journal
    FINALLY! Some congress-critters are beginning to think that the RIAA might not be the next best thing since apple-pie. I wonder if this is in any way the result of the wonderful efforts of this community and others like it. It is a nice thing to see when you see the Great Machine begin to slowly turn the right way...

    But don't stop now. Not only should you continue to keep those letters and emails flowing, but you should also send new letters and email praising the efforts of those congress-folk who make a good descision, after all, they like to get a pat on the head as much as the next person...
  • It depends on how they do it. If they do anything to your hardware to damage/disable it, then, it should be illegal. It should also be illegal to raise prices/lower quality for 'copy protection' reasons. I mean, making a CD that can't be copied without sacrificing sound quality/portability would be nice (for them) instead of making a CD that can destroy your equipment.
  • As I pointed out in another discussion AHRA imposes penalties for manipulating the existing copy protection (SCMS) to prevent legitimate copying - so it makes sense that other technology would similarly be a violation of the AHRA.
  • by jjeffries ( 17675 )
    Ah, we can explain that, Senator... I'll just write you an explanation... let me find a piece of paper... ah, here's one, in the ledger! A signature on the line there on the other side to prove our sincerity and... there you go! I think that should explain everything.
  • I wonder (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mESSDan ( 302670 )

    who this representative's backers are? I mean, most of the time you hear a politician say something like this to the media, it usually just means that he's fishing for some campaign money.

    But maybe this isn't the case, maybe this guy is already backed by the CDR Companies / MP3 Device companies / Any company who doesn't profit from CD copy protection. Because almost certainly, that is why a question like this would be asked.

  • Because of the cayenne pepper that just got blow into my eyes. But I digress...

    This is very good news. They certainly need to look into this practice, since rights we have been given by law are being taken away by corporations. Though I'd be grossly dissapointed if, as the comments at least make possible, this ends only the blank media royalty.

    Though this isn't the only time fair use issues have been brought up. In the DeCSS case the judge was quite unapproving of the MPAA's thoughts on fair use... not that it ended up helping much.
  • by Anonymous DWord ( 466154 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:09PM (#2788506) Homepage
    is that the blank media tax (at least in Canada, and I think the States) goes exclusively to the music publishers. So everytime I download a new Slack version or whatever, I'm giving money to support N'Sync. That's the really criminal part. Why would you assume every blank CD is used to copy music that you didn't buy? If I'm making a backup copy of my legally purchased disc, why am I paying more money to give myself an extra?
    • by z4ce ( 67861 )
      Sorry, but this isn't true unless you're buying the special Audio CD-Rs not generic blank media. Many(most?) home audio recording equipment will only support the Audio CD-Rs. There is no tax for the computer CD-Rs...
    • I belive it only applies to blank audio CDs, not data CDs.. There is an ever-so-slight difference.. As most of those component CD-Copy machines you get for your home stereo will only work with blank audio CDs and not with normal blank data CDs..

    • by coyote-san ( 38515 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:21PM (#2788583)
      Hell, why worry about the occasional dist that you download?

      How would you feel about sending some money towards N'Sync each and every day because you use CD-R for daily incremental backups?

      Sure, you could use CD-RWs, but that requires you to track them, blank them, etc. With a CD-R you can just label them and toss them into the archive vault.

      Of course that pimple-faced kid buying a 100-pack at Costco is probably not using them for backups. But so what? Do I have to spend a week in jail every week because some rapists went unpunished? Do I have to spend two weekends picking up trash, under court supervision, because some drunk drivers went uncaught? Then why do I have to pay this "pirating" tax on media destined to archive my source code and mail box?
  • Clarification (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nbarratt ( 236490 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:10PM (#2788508) Homepage
    Isn't the CD-R "tax" only levied on "music" CD-Rs (The more expensive kind that you always pass up for the same brand but cheaper "normal" CD-Rs next to them)? At some point, home audio CD-recorders would only use the "music" CD-R variety, as the sale of those included a royalty payment. I didn't think there was a royalty included on normal CD-Rs.
  • the bargain (Score:2, Informative)

    by terrymr ( 316118 )
    SCMS & the blank disc royalty was the bargain struck between congress and the industry to allow private home copying. If they fail to uphold their side of the deal it's only fair that they should be held accountable.
  • by Fly ( 18255 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:11PM (#2788519) Homepage
    The barriers to creating digital copies of music are lower now than in 1992, so it seems that if the recording industry did not move to copy protection, they would deem themselves entitled to greater compensation per DAT or CDR sold. How many people had CD burners in their own machines in 1992? How many people had broadband connections at home in 1992?

    I was in school at the time, and our University had maybe a couple CD burners for student use, and that was actually later than 1992. Broadband was available only at work and in the computer labs. Our dorms didn't start getting ethernet until a year later.

    So in 1992, when the RIAA managed to get the law passed compensating them for piracy, there was a whole lot less digital piracy occurring simply because most people didn't have access to equipment to make digital copies. It seems we now have the choice between allowing copy protection or increasing the compensation to the RIAA if we assume that the 1992 law was just. :-(

    Nevertheless, piracy will continue. If I buy CDs that force me to use a special player, you can bet that I'll decide to rip them to mp3s just so I can use XMMS. The RIAA could argue that piracy will continue, and they should be compensated accordingly, though now they can claim that hard drives, memory sticks, compact flash, and smart media storage also contribute to their allegedly lost sales and that these should also be taxed.

  • Is CD copy protection legal?

    Does that really change whether we will be saddled with it or not?

    We all know the story:

    ConHugeCo does something evil and of dubious legality. Someone calls them on it (like the high tech community's good friend Rick Boucher or the Justice Department, or Ralph Nader), the matter gets talking head time on the enws channels... gets debated for a while... maybe goes to court... drags on a few years... Congress passes a law that would have helped before the fact, but not after... even the media get bored with the story... and finally gets resolved with a slap on the wrist long to ConHugeCo after the issue has ceased to be relevant.
  • paying for copies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zarqman ( 64555 ) <tm&zarqman,com> on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:12PM (#2788524) Homepage Journal
    along side this is a question i've had for a while: why, after paying this "tax" on blank media, have i not been considered to have paid for the copies i have made (or will make)? since it is assumed that i will use my blank media for music copies, why is it wrong for me to then use my blank media for copies of music?
  • by mr. roboto ( 85479 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:16PM (#2788548)
    So the issue here seems to be an argument that cd copy protection violates the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992. Find a breif summary of the law here [hrrc.org], and the actual text of the law here [cornell.edu].


    The main thrusts of the law are:

    -No copyright infringment suit can be brought against someone making home digital recordings.

    -Retailers have the right to sell copying equipment and media, so long as they contain serial copy protection.

    -The RIAA collects a royalty of 2% on copying equipment and 3% on media.


    That the RIAA might be violating this law by making copy-proof cds is not immediately apparent from a quick reading. In fact, the definitions of what is and is not a "digital musical recording" do not seem to hinge in any way on the "copyability" of the recording, and the only qualification for entitlement to payments is that an entity is making and distributing recordings so defined.


    The point that copy-proof cds violate the spirit of this law is a good one. I think that any argument that the letter of the law is violated is weak, however. Anyone who can determine otherwise would make me happy, though, since IANAL.


    As a final point, the fact that a congressman is looking into this might make violation of the letter of the law irrelevant since congress, of course, has the power to create new law.

  • So why don't the Linux vendors get a cut of the blank CD media tax? Only seem fair.
  • mmmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cinematique ( 167333 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:25PM (#2788595)
    now that we have 2390482398 copies of the same general idea posted... i have a new one to add to the melee.

    what is going to happen when the people who use operating systems produced by people outside this [microsoft.com] company... aren't able to access the music [zdnet.com] on a copy-protected cd?

    "no, i'm sorry mom. you can't use your imac to listen to that cd because the record companies don't want you to."
  • Why is this so hard? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by donutello ( 88309 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:28PM (#2788616) Homepage
    (Disclaimer: I think the tax on recordable media is stupid and completely unjustifiable - it is not the job of the government to compensate people for flawed business models)

    Assuming that you can somehow justify paying a tax on recordable media, IIRC the way it works right now is that the copyright owners get a proportion of the money based on the sales of the particular records.

    Records which are copy-protected should simply be removed from the equation and everything should continue the way it is. Why is this so hard?
  • Does computer software have a similar 'right'? I seem to recall that software buyers have a right to make personal backup copies of install media just as media buyers do. If I am remembering correctly it would seem that the same arguments would apply to the attempts to copy protect software CDs as well.
  • by Katharine ( 303681 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:29PM (#2788627)
    Doesn't look like there is actually anything in the Audio Home Recording Act that says that the RIAA members can't do what they are doing. (Moral considerations aside.) Apparently, the drafters of the Act back in 1992 didn't think that there would ever be enough copy protection to worry about. Of course, that's why the Act was passed-- the recording industry was all whipped up about the revenue it was going to loose as a result of people making digital copies.

    Here's the text of the Audio Home Recording Act.
    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ch10.html:
    (Arranged in easy to navigate sections from Cornell Law School)
    http://www.hrrc.org/html/ahra.html
    (Full text on one page from Audio Home Recording Rights Coalition)

    Subchapter C is the part that is particularly interesting in that it sets out the details on royalty payments. You will have to cross reference to the definitions section is Subchapter A, however, in order to fully understand who is entitled to collect payments. Love the method of splitting up the royalty payments!
  • by jms ( 11418 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @07:36PM (#2788666)
    Finally someone is paying attention to this issue. I've posted this information in a couple of slashdot threads, and here it is again. It's one of the most incredible recording industry lies/ripoffs. Maybe now it will get some attention.

    The upshot of it is that every time you purchase a digital audio recorder, or blank digital audio recording media, such as audio CDRs, you pay a small statutory royalty into a fund. This fund is collected by the Federal Government, and turned over directly to the music industry. The name of the fund is the DART fund. DART stands for "Digital Audio Recording Technology". The best source of information on the DART fund is right here [loc.gov]

    These documents are very interesting. They show how the money was paid out. The law was written to allow all of the major copyright interests to gather together and collect all the money in one lump sum. According to the first report on the page, we find that 99.997% (LITERALLY!) of all of the statutory royalties collected on blank digital audio media (mostly CDRs), and digital audio recording devices went to the following organizations:

    Broadcast Music, Inc. (``BMI'');
    the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (``ASCAP'');
    SESAC, Inc. (``SESAC'');
    the Harry Fox Agency (``HFA'');
    the Songwriters Guild of America (``SGA'');
    and Copyright Management, Inc. (``CMI'')

    Copyright Management, Inc. is a blanket organization that represents all of the major record labels.

    In other words, all of the people who are raising hell that they aren't being paid when people burn music onto CDRs are being ...

    you got it ...

    paid every time a blank CDR is purchased!

    However, nowhere in any of these web pages will you find the actual dollar figures. The reports go to laughable extremes to avoid disclosing exactly how much money we are talking about. For instance, according to the report, for the 1995 funds collected, 99.998034% was paid to the music industry, 0.001966% was paid to one individual claimant, and 0.000614% was paid to Ms. Alicia Evelyn.

    I obtained the actual royalty yearly figures by contacting Ms. Evelyn, one of the individual claimants. Ms. Evelyn is a songwriter who, unable to obtain any royalty payments from ASCAP for her work, petitioned the copyright office directly for payment. She read me these numbers over the phone which she received in the course of her research. If you do the math, you'll find that she received a few pennies for her efforts. Literally.

    Here are the total amounts collected year by year since 1992. These statutory royalties were all paid out to the recording industry:

    1992 $118,227.42
    1993 $520,162.84
    1994 $521,999.64
    1995 $473,592.20
    1996 $397,152.52
    1997 $969,178.06
    1998 $1,978,457.93
    1999 $3,551,030.86
    2000 $5,285,246.32

    So, while on the one hand, the music industry is claiming that they are not being paid when individuals make audio CDRs of their music, yet on the other hand, they are quietly collecting millions of dollars in statutory royalties from consumers when they purchase blank digital audio media.

    The key here is that these are statutory royalties. They are NOT a tax. They are described as royalties in the law, and they function exactly as royalties.

    A royalty is what you pay in exchange for the right to make a copy. This is the ordinary meaning of the term "royalty", as it is used throughout copyright law, and there is absolutely no evidence that it means anything else in the context of the AHRA.

    I submit that by accepting these statutory royalty payments from the general public, the recording industry, and every major record label claimed this money, has incurred an obligation to permit the public to exercise the rights that they have paid for, to the tune of millions of dollars per year.

    This is NOT an issue of fair use. This is an issue of consumers receiving the rights that they have paid for.

    Kudos for Rep. Boucher. We need more representatives of his caliber with his level of committment to the rights of the people.
    • The key here is that these are statutory royalties. They are NOT a tax. They are described as royalties in the law, and they function exactly as royalties.

      A royalty is what you pay in exchange for the right to make a copy. This is the ordinary meaning of the term "royalty", as it is used throughout copyright law, and there is absolutely no evidence that it means anything else in the context of the AHRA.


      I have two questions: First, does this mean by buying a CDR, I am legally allowed to copy any music whose copyrights are owned by the RIAA? and Second, if I do not record any music on any of those CDs, can I send the RIAA a bill for a refund of that money?
    • by sheldon ( 2322 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:16PM (#2788853)
      "paid every time a blank CDR is purchased! "

      This is not at all accurate. The fee is only charged on CDR media specifically intended for audio recording. It is not charged on CDR media intended for computer based recording even though it is often used for music.

      Also, similar fees are collected on analog cassette tapes, and have been for years. I'm not certain if VHS tapes have such a tax, but I would not doubt it.
  • On a similar note... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AntiNorm ( 155641 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:38PM (#2788916)
    Are CD copy protections such as Safedisc illegal? As an example, take MS Flight Simulator 2000. I own a legitimate copy of this game, and it is Safedisc-protected. In case you haven't heard of Safedisc, it is a common protection scheme that makes copying difficult and renders backup copies ineffective by ensuring that the *original* CD is in the CD-ROM drive every time the game is started. From this, it is implied that making backup copies is not permissible.

    BUT...Microsoft's own EULA -- which in their own words is a legal agreement -- states that if the original media is required to play the game (as is the case here), then it is permissible to make a backup copy of the game CDs. To quote:

    6.BACKUP COPY. After installation of one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT pursuant to this EULA, you may keep the original media on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT was provided by Microsoft solely for backup or archival purposes. If the original media is required to use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on the COMPUTER, you may make one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT solely for backup or archival purposes. Except as expressly provided in this EULA, you may not otherwise make copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or the printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
    So as you can see there is a major contradiction here. Microsoft explicitly and legally states that it is okay to make backup copies, but they implicitly state that it is not. Are they contradicting their own agreement here? Is this legal?
    • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @09:18PM (#2789045) Homepage
      IANAL, but I feel pretty confident about this: You have the *right* to copy it, but you can't do it in any normal way because it would have to be a DMCA violation. Since DMCA is law, the law takes precedence over any agreement. Of course you could stamp (as in cd press) a perfect copy and it'd be legal (as you're not breaking any copyright method), so you can't claim the right has been entirely taken away from you. Thus your right exists, but as 99.9999% doesn't have a cd stamper around, you can't exercise it. It's like giving you TV broadcast rights in the US, but if and only if you send from the back of the moon.

      Kjella
  • by nolife ( 233813 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @08:39PM (#2788922) Homepage Journal
    I assume this double dip only applies to the "music" cdr's.

    How can someone determine exactly what blank data cd's are being used for?
    Ask 20 people the same question and you will get 20 completely different breakdowns.
    Based on my burning habits, how much should be a per disk gift to the RIAA to cover their simulated paper loses?

    If I had a decent vid capture card I would be saving tv shows to cdrom but not yet..

    My last hundred burned cd's breakdown to this..
    5 Playstation backups
    yes I own the originals

    5 Dreamcast stuff
    not games but emu's, and extra stuff that others have made.

    10 Audio cd's of music that I made.
    I made - meaning original music. I sequence midi files and record and edit the final product in wav format.

    5 computer game discs
    yes I own the originals

    15 Software discs
    Software I have downloaded, like patches, IE updates, MS service packs, plugins, Netscape, driver updates, Star Office etc..

    15 Linux distros and software

    10 MP3 disks
    mp3's that were converted from CD's I own or I created (see above). I use these in my home DVD player and my laptop when on the road.

    15 data disks with pictures from my digital camera

    5 data disks filled with prOn and car pictures from various usenet groups

    5 data backups - various data files that need backed up

    3 stuff I do not own..
    d/l mp3's, game roms, cracked software etc..

    7 coaster - ran into problems copying some of the above.. I could probably make this better but I try disc-disc on the fly first, if that doesnt work I see why (orignal scratched, copy protection that slows reading etc..) and try another method.

    Is that 100?
  • by AutumnLeaf ( 50333 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @09:10PM (#2789022)
    Perhaps we should "acquire" some 18-wheelers loaded up with blank audio CD-Rs, drive to Boston Harbor, and toss them in?
  • by fanatic ( 86657 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @09:49PM (#2789129)
    The article says 'sightings are rare' - don't think so, see here. [fatchucks.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04, 2002 @10:21PM (#2789205)
    A couple years back, the state of arizona thought it would be sneaky and try to screw drug dealers out of more money. They created a cannabis tax - The idea being that if you were caught with a bunch of bud that you hadn't paid taxes on, they could use the "tax" to extort that money out of you.

    Funny thing is, because they had the tax, they had to then create a cannabis license. So, people started applying for licenses to sell cannabis.

    When all was said and done, and everything went through court, it was decided that these people who had applied for and received cannabis sale licenses and had paid the tax, could not then be prosecuted for selling cannabis.

    So...If I pay a tax on the blank media I buy - a tax that was put in place to compensate the various content holders for "piracy" - does that not then give me the implicit right to use that media for "piracy"? I mean, hell, I *did* pay the tax after all...
  • by thumbtack ( 445103 ) <thumbtack@[ ]o.com ['jun' in gap]> on Saturday January 05, 2002 @01:32AM (#2789711)
    Rep. Boucher who was rerferred to by John Perry Barlow as "The only person in Congress who gets it." (at the O'Reilly Conference)has some ideas on Fair Use [house.gov] that are well worth reading. As a VA resident who has met and discussed DMCA and fair use with Congressman Boucher, he needs your support in helping to correct many of the problems with the DMCA as it exists, by letting YOUR Congressperson know that you, as a constituent, want them to support the changes. They need your vote, without being elected, they don't get the lobby dollars that the copyright industry scatters around DC like confetti on New Years Eve. Point out to them they work for you not Disney, not Vivendi, etc., etc, not Hilary Rosen or Jack Valenti. They will get the point.
  • by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Saturday January 05, 2002 @03:42AM (#2789987) Homepage
    OK, this is interesting. I've been trying to figure out how copy protection could violate the law. Things like "fair use" make it so that certain copying is not a copyright violation, but also don't prevent the copyright holder from taking non-copyright measures to stop that copying. The DMCA makes it pretty clear that the idea of copy protection is perfectly legal.

    However, he mentions the AHRA. The interesting part about the AHRA is that it places a tax on certain blank media, and mandated certain copy protection schemes in digital recording hardware. The record companies get the money from the tax. In exchange for this, consumers got some pretty broad music copying rights.

    I think the theory he is thinking about is that consumers have bought copying rights via that tax, and so that the record companies can't take steps to stop that copying, since they have accepted the money from that tax.

    • by jms ( 11418 ) on Saturday January 05, 2002 @03:01PM (#2791105)
      It would be fraud. You purchase a blank audio CDR. Part of that money is paid to the RIAA as a federally-mandated statutory "royalty." A royalty is what you pay in the exchange for the right to copy music.

      Now you have the right to copy music from anyone who collected those royalties. Those royalties are collected by, among others, all of the major record labels.

      Then they turn around and make it impossible for you to exercise the right that you have paid for.

      Imagine that you purchased a new car, then went out to the parking lot to drive your new car away, but found that the auto dealer had placed a Club on the steering wheel. Wouldn't you be screaming bloody murder?

      The recording industry's right to attempt to prevent copying ended when they accepted statutory royalty payments on blank digital audio media.

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