College Students Are Buying More, Warez-ing Less 557
Keefesis writes: "This story from a researcher at the University of Florida states that software piracy among college students dropped between the 1996-97 school year and the 2000-01 school year. One reason cited is that software makers have found 'creative' ways to entice students to purchase software(rather than the heavy-handed and largely unsuccessful tactics of the RIAA)."
Maybe... (Score:5, Insightful)
...Maybe not (Score:2, Insightful)
The point is that something has changed on campuses. Obviously, the people are different. But also, either the values or the software that they're using is different, too. Or the study is flawed, which wouldn't surprise me.
No... maybe so! (was Re:...Maybe not) (Score:4, Insightful)
Your reply: "If the study was comparing the piracy among students in the 96-97 school year and those same people today, you would have a point. However, it is comparing the students in the 96-97 school year and the students now, which in most cases are different people."
I emphasized the point that jgerman was trying to make. The same ppl that were the pirates are now in the industry, they know why they pirated in the 90's thus they might know what would entice someone to actually buy the software instead of pirate it. There advantages to purchasing software legally, the trick is to make these advantages desireable to your target audience.
Re:No... maybe so! (was Re:...Maybe not) (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No... maybe so! (was Re:...Maybe not) (Score:3)
When you're living off campus.
Re:Maybe... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then again, maybe they have jobs and realize it's cheaper to go buy commercial software than spend a day or more locating it and several hours downloading it.
So yeah, anyways...
Anyone know where I can leech a registered version of Allegro Common Lisp Enterprise Edition for linux?
Re:Maybe... (Score:4, Insightful)
Think about download.com and tucows and freshmeat and napster, and gnutella and kazaa, don't they provide the same functionality as the older tools? Aren't ICQ and AIM and MSIM just like IRC and talk, and chat? Dosent' usenet live on with google groups and mailing list archives?
To me all these things are evolutionary steps forward. None of them really represent new ideas, just new ways of doing old things.
BTW, When *you* look for info on the internet, do you use archie or google
Re:"irc" old?!? GACK (Score:3, Interesting)
but any internet tech that goes back farther than the web [w3.org] is old enough
Survey Finds: Techies know techies and pirating. (Score:5, Insightful)
The next survey was of 700 students at only 2 universities. This was probably a lot greater spectrum of students many of whom were in less technically oriented majors. ie: Much of the population doesn't know enough or care enough about computers to even begin pirating software.
Perhaps the piracy rates have changed in the past 4 years, perhaps not, but I don't think these surveys will tell us a thing one way or the other.
Re:Maybe... (Score:2)
Book Expenses (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Interesting)
I see people in my class shelling out 100 bucks for adobe illustrator, which they will use for 5 assignments and then let sit on a shelf. Yeah, I warezd the latest version so I could do my assignments (cartography map making) I'm not going to pay for crap just for one class.
I'd warez the books if I could
Re:Book Expenses (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Interesting)
I have found that the instructors do their damned best to change the text as frequently as possible. In this respect, the book becomes useless for anyone at the school so selling to students isn't even an option.
Do what I did: round everyone's books up, pile them up in a parking lot on campus and set them on fire. I realize that this is a waste but it got lots of press and brought the students' frustration to the public.
Although it hasn't been dealt with, they are currently investigating instructor "kick backs" from the text manufacturers. This is commonplace. What we need is for the professors who write their own texts to "open source" them for other professors to use and modify freely.
The internet is a huge resource of mostly free material. There isn't any reason that text books can't go to the wayside.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2, Interesting)
It's called photocopying. Well, ok, not exactly like warezing, but it still can be many times cheaper than to buy the book.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Informative)
If you get a Student ID or some other proof of enrollment for you kid, then you can get the prices you want.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2)
Yes, exactly.
When I was in college, I only bought used books, and then I sold them back.
But if I could, I'd just borrow the books from other students.
Exactly the same as what I did with the software I used.
(I never learned to spell either, but I did learn to use a spell checker.)
-- Spam Wolf, the best spam blocking vaporware yet! [spamwolf.com]
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Informative)
And, more importantly, useful in your professional career if you stick with it.
My college text books fell into one of two categories--those worth keeping, and those not. Funny, the courses whose text books fell into the former category were, almost without exception, the classes that I learned the most, and actually retained the knowledge.
Operating Systems, Hardware Design, Networking, Programming Languages, etc...
Funnier yet still, is that the same applied to a number of courses outside the CS cirriculum--there was an English for Writers course which had a number of excellent books, which are still on my shelf. Same for two Physics courses.
Most of the math books I used actually kind-of sucked, so I don't have a single text book from any of those courses. Instead I've supplemented my collection with books that have much more useful content, like a couple of Linear Algebra texts, and a Statistics Analysis Process book that have proven helpful in the CG projects I've worked on.
So, unless you really need the cash, take a second look at some of your text. You will probably intuitively know which will be useful down the road a bit.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Photoshop supports many features REQUIRED by professional design and printing firms. Photoshop became the industry standard image editing application because it caters to the needs of the design community. Simply put, the GIMP does not.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:4, Insightful)
Another example I've come across has been the use of Maya in a college setting. Why not teach 3D Studio MAX or SoftImage or use a free tool like Blender? Because Maya is an industry standard tool for 3D animation. While MAX and SoftImage are used extensively in the industry, Maya is more common and is taught because of this.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:4, Insightful)
You seem to have a narrow realization of how broad the college experience can be. Climb out of your engineering hole. It's not CS or Software Engineering students who would take a course like Flash (usually). It's electronic arts and communications students. And flash is certainly a viable medium for art. Usually the medium is taught along with presentation and communication theory that works with it. (just what is the non-proprietary vector animation standard, anyway?)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:5, Funny)
I tried using that argument once. The lady still hit me with her purse, and the cop didn't buy it either. I'm glad they're teaching it in universities now though. It's definitely tied to presentation and communication theory (and thus beneficial to society).
Re:Book Expenses (Score:4, Interesting)
SVG [w3.org], or Scalable Vector Graphics, which also includes a mobile version [w3.org] and also caters for disabled users and non standard display devices.
There are tools to author it such as Jasc WebDraw [jasc.com], and it can be displayed on a significant proportion of browsers (IE is the only browser I know supports it, Mozilla probably does too).
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know about your school, but all the ones I have been to have all the software you need in all the labs and libraries on the computers there. If you're living in a dorm, it's not like it'll kill ya to spend a couple of hours on campus in the library/lab would it?
Re:Book Expenses (Score:3)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2, Interesting)
Why a Flash Course? Because Flash is a tool to do a job, just like Photoshop, GIMP, Dreamweaver, or Notepad. Being able to use the tools that are available to you is part of being a good programmer. You may not like seeing Flash on a website, but it does have its place as a useful tool. For example, I've been using it and Shockwave Director for the past two years to make interactive maps of the college campus for one of the university departments.
I wish my college would teach courses in Flash or Shockwave or other such proprietary applications. Like it or not, many companies expect their programming team to be able to use such applications. If I were asked "Can you use Flash?" at a job interview, I'd rather answer "Yes, my college education as a Computer Science major taught me the ins-and-outs of Flash." rather then "Flash? I'll see that proprietary piece of trash burn in Hell!"
Yes, my university provides free access to things such as GCC and Espresso via the computer labs or Telnet, but the proprietary tools that are commonly required or preferred by students (including AutoCAD and several different compilers for several different programming languages) are also available for sale at the academic rate in the college computer shop and provided free for use in the computer labs (which are stocked with Win2K, Mac, and Unix stations).
All in all, I'd rather be exposed to and educated in these proprietary applications to better prepare me for the job market.
Re:Book Expenses (Score:5, Insightful)
Would be a shame if your "Computer Science" education only prepared your for the job market and didn't teach you any computer science though, eh? I think that's what the OP was somewhat annoyed about and I agree. Computer science isn't about learning a trade; may as well become an apprentice. It's about learning mathematics, logic, and computability. Just because many schools offer a "Computer Science" dept that actually teaches "Software Engineering" doesn't mean that "Computer Science" equates to Java-hacking or something equally inane.
Your college education in Computer Science should teach you the ins and outs of the lambda calculus, higher-order functions, the nature of the computable, algorithm design and analysis, formal logic, etc... so on and so forth. You should have no trouble adapting to any sort of computer tools after that; your skills won't be obsolete in 3 years. What in the world does Flash have to do with all that? Do yourself a favor, go to a trade school if all you care about is learning trade-tools, and save yourself some money.
(Not that I object to taking classes in such tools, but they are far, far from what your focus should be)
Re:Book Expenses (Score:2)
i don't want to brag.... (Score:5, Funny)
what do i do now? i write commercial software. do i feel guilty about warezing in the past? no. i didn't have the money then, i do now. am i mad at people warezing my software now? no. it is an understanding i guess...
Re:i don't want to brag.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Everytime someone claims that they "didn't have the money", I'd love to see an honest analysis of their lifestyle : Almost always there is beer, movies, electronics, new computer hardware, a car with insurance, gas, and upkeep, etc, but people feel fine paying for those, but that new game or image editing app isn't worth $39.
Piracy has seriously undermined the software industry for years: Something that has such an incredibly ramification on people's lives (i.e. consider the number of hours that people spend using computers these days), yet in a yearly % of consumer income I doubt you'd see it hit 1% per year. Hrmmm, this would be a really interesting foundation for a study actually : What is the net value of software (in entertainment/productivity terms) versus the net payout per year -> I would wager that it is incredibly low, and people pirate not because it is just, or because of their subsistence lifestyle, but rather just because they CAN and they see it as a way of winning at the perceived zero-sum game of life.
Re:i don't want to brag.... (Score:2)
Most major colleges and universities require a specific software for a class. We will take graphics for example. Yes, I would love it if all schools used the Gimp for graphic design classes however the school usually has a contract with a software company instead. So, how much is academic verison of Photoshop? IIRC it is about $300.
Sure would be nice to see universities dumping these commercial licenses and going with the free (as in beer and speech) software...
http://www.itd.umich.edu/microsoft/ [umich.edu]
$39?!? What planet are you from? (Score:4, Insightful)
But $350 was a fucking lot of money for me back in the days when a $3.50 sandwich seemed expensive.
Yes, a lot of student pirates out there have money to burn -- but a great many don't. Many students are working one or two jobs to pay their way through school, and struggling to make rent. Sure, games are cheap. But the software that students need for their education really is expensive.
I'm not necessarily defending rampant piracy, but don't get so cocky about students' spending habits. I think if you saw "an honest analysis of their lifestyle", you'd find out that a lot of them are genuinely broke.
Re:i don't want to brag.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Blah.. when people make this argument they don't seem to back it up. This is because there's no way to prove how much copying software affects companies' profits. There's no way to prove how much Napster affects the music industry's profits. There's no way to prove how much 'unsecured' computer hardware takes away from Disney's profits.
I will guess, and it's only a guess, that by far those who pirate software would not buy that software if it weren't available for free. You'll see a lot of commercial software supporters chanting, "every copy is a lost sale".. but they don't back up the claim! The software industry seems to be doing fine, by the way. Maybe nobody buys shareware, but maybe the reason is that 99% of shareware is crap.
Do these software guys blame free software as well? "Every copy of gnucash is a lost Quicken sale.." Really, what's the difference between addressing a need with gnucash or with Quicken, when the marginal cost of software is zero?
Re:i don't want to brag.... (Score:2, Insightful)
I truly believe that people pirate because life is a competition (whether acknowledged or not. Satisfaction for most people is not in achieving some standard of living, but rather in achieving a BETTER standard of living than the next guy), and piracy is one of the easiest ways to level the playing field (albeit unfairly): The goal is to have the most and do the most spending the least. Contrary to the Slashdot article's contention that software has achieved higher rates by incentives and non-RIAA tactics, I would say the reverse is true: Almost every game CD-ROM now either has advanced copy protection (ex. Operation Flashpoint), or it uses online verification that discourages serial number sharing and piracy (ex. Quake3). Many commercial application are hardware keyed and require internet authentication. On the warez scene the law has come down hard so formerly bustling IRC channels are ghost towns. Many of the people I know who formerly claimed to be able to get anything at anytime now have sources that have dried up. The spread of trojans and viruses has most people nervous about touching cracks, pirated software, etc. Indeed, I'd say "incentives" has absolutely nothing to do with the drop in piracy.
Re:i don't want to brag.... (Score:3, Informative)
I should also mention, however, that the industry has done a much better job in recent years of releasing playable demos, which in most cases is more than enough to get a good feel for the game and convince me to buy it.
--noah
I have not got any money now (Score:2, Insightful)
I think I will stick to http://www.debian.org until my finacial situation improves
Students will buy what they can afford. (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of companies are no realising that people stick with what they know. Give a student a discount on your software and when they go on to ear big bucks they will buy the retail versions. (Hello calling macromedia)
Piracy at uni (Score:5, Informative)
There isn't a bit of guilt about it either. You don't even contemplate buying it. If it's obscure software, then you have to ask around a little, but it's no hassle.
Your payment - you copy it and pass it round more.
Re:Piracy at uni (Score:4, Interesting)
What MS realizes is that they are running out of "new releases" of Windows. This is why most official licenses come phsyically affixed to the PC in question. Since you can't get the license off of the PC (they are designed to destroy themselves if removed), you can't transfer the license. This should be illegal! Once the license has been purchased, there is no reason that it can't be used on new PCs. This frightens MS since it would effectively eliminate the need to sell an OS, sooner or later. I currently see no need to move from Windows 2k in the next 5-10 years (unless Linux becomes viable for me).
What the DOJ needs to do is require MS to license individuals instead of PCs. If someone has already purchased an XP license, then they should be able to buy a PC without the MS tax and simply register it under their name. The DOJ should also REQUIRE PC vendors to itemize the cost of the operating system on new PC sales. This would cause consumers to become cost-conscious of the MS-tax of which MS has done a good job to hide. Once this happens, Linux becomes more viable and consumers stop throwing away Windows licenses with their old PC.
But who is gonna listen?
Err... students just MORE dishonest than before (Score:2, Funny)
The more you steal, the less you admit?
Try now buy later (Score:4, Insightful)
Every once in a while I will warez a program or game to try it out, and then if I like it I'll definitely go pay for it - having the CD and all the material that comes with the app. is worth the money.
Re:Try now buy later (Score:2)
Most people warez an app these days be making ISOs out of the original CDs. What functionality are you losing then?
Some good reasons for that (Score:3, Interesting)
Make education pricing available warma serva walla (Score:2)
What the hell does the RIAA and MPAA think kids are made of money? A single software program I might use for a 10 hours a week for a year or more. Can't say that about anything they push. All I listen to are indie bands and noise generators.
Computer literacy might be a factor in this (Score:5, Insightful)
The computer nerds are probably copying just as much, its just that the nerds with computers are a smaller ratio of the user population every day.
Re:Computer literacy might be a factor in this (Score:3, Interesting)
I found the easiest way to stop using warez... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I found the easiest way to stop using warez... (Score:2)
Of course I try to give back what I can. I couldn't find a nice way to scan incoming mail on my server (qmail). So, I downloaded f-prot (free) and wrote a perl script to pull out any attachments, scan them, and either dump the message or deliver it, depending on the results of the scan. Once I had it working the way I wanted, I put up a webpage and offered it to anyone who wants to use it!
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Surveys of undergraduates at several public and private universities reveal the number of students who admit [emphasis my own] to using illegally copied "free" software remains high but dropped noticeably between 1996-97 and the 2000-01 school year.
Maybe people aren't admitting it because they're afraid that someone might actually start enforcing legislation like the NETA (No Electronic Theft Act) and DMCA against average users. Look at Sklyarov.
I'd like to think people are starting to buy stuff... but come on - do we really think the piracy norm has gone anywhere?
this is crap (Score:5, Insightful)
the mole! (Score:5, Funny)
Outtasight, daddy-o. Me'n the droogs are gonna rumble the 'frames, try to shake down some code. Can you dig it?
warez vs. buy. (Score:2, Interesting)
What sense is there in me buying Windows when I only use it on a laptop for my gf and for playing MP3s? What sense is there for me to pay $10 for the Office CD from school and only be able to install it twice (and have to keep that long number on record) when I can use a Warez'd copy that has no license?
I use Linux solely on my computer and I use only programs that I can get for free (WP, etc) but on computers that require Windows I rarely pay for software.
Sorry, I just don't have the money to be buying shit. If other college students do, they must have Free Beer.
Buy the service, not software (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies can succeed by selling service rather than software. It's the extras on the CD, the nifty stuff on the DVD, the nice documentation that makes the difference. And the students know it.
Uh oh! (Score:3, Funny)
creative
1. Setting up bogus honeypot websites like Amazon and CDNow in order to steal credit card numbers.
2. Hiring cute college girls to seduce rich undergrads into buying tons of software
3. Sending one new copy of their product to boxes #1-8430 of every college in Pennsylvania on a monthly basis. If they don't stamp the card with "CANCEL" and send it back within 16 hours, send them a bill for the software. If they don't pay the bill for the software within 36 hours, send them more software along with an overdue notice. Repeat.
4. See SSSCA
monolinux.com
Won't translate well into music (Score:5, Insightful)
There are only a few software packages that most students would ever contemplate using ... say, the OS, an office suite, and a few specific analysis packages tailored specifically for courses. Since most software companies make most of their money off industrial users, it makes sense to tailor cheap licenses for student software users. Modern packages also tend to be large, in the hundreds of megabytes -- even with university bandwidth that's not trivial, especially if your rez has capacity limits.
By contrast, there are hundreds of songs that the average student would be interested in downloading, and students are one of the more lucrative demographics for music companies. Most songs are a few megabytes at most, making them incredibly easy to download and share. The "creative solutions" proposed for software probably won't translate well into music piracy ...
Effect of free software? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Effect of free software? (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting story about this. My roommate was playing around with a pirated version of Photoshop the other day and was complaining because he couldn't take it to work where it would help him get his job done. So I suggested he try the Gimp. I pointed him to the download page for the windows version and he started playing around with it. He was so happy that it would make his job easier and that it had support for files that Photoshop didn't. I do believe he downloaded it at work. GNU wins over another one.
Um, not so likely (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Um, not so likely (Score:2)
Hmm, I'd wager a guess that a good many windows users have heard of things like Morphues, Kazaa, and Limewire. Aren't they all based on a "free software" called Gnutella? P2P is probably going to be the killer app that puts free software on the map (as least as far as the general windows user is concerned).
I'd bet you'd even be surprised how many people have heard of Linux. Now, why they would switch or what it can do for them is a different story. I agree with you there. However, I see more and more people starting to not buy into the upgrade early and upgrade often licenese scheme that software companies are enforcing these days. Some of them are activley exploring alternatives. Some not. Perhaps it's just a matter of time...
Ok dumbass (Score:2)
Proves that piracy is good for consumers (Score:4, Interesting)
Piracy is really just another form of competition -- whine about it being "unfair" or not. Piracy offers the base product at no price.
Thus, producers are forced to lower their prices in order to compete and offer other benefits or increase the value of other benefits already offered (such as making customer support better). Those producers that arrogantly think the approach to piracy si to raise the price of products eventually find out that such only pushes more people to piracy.
Re:Proves that piracy is good for consumers (Score:2)
Really, nobody is losing out in Adobe pulling out, and, if anything, Adobe will save costs by focusing on the markets that deem that Adobe products are priced fairly.
Meanwhile, they will still reap the benifits of industry entrenchment and distribution coverage that the priracy market encourages, so the only thing they are losing out on is the impossible-to-proove-that-it-actually-really-exis
My guess is that its a little of column A and a little of column B. Some piracy is always good. Too much, from your entire consumer base, and you dont get any revenue to continue development. Too little, and you lose out on a (admittedly illegal) market that does wonders to entrench products in industries. Like hillfinger, who tells retailers not to crack down on shoplifters, Adobe probably recogizes (tho cant admit to their shareholders, if they are public) that a little bit of piracy goes a long way. After all, I've seen tons of sales stem from adults with money asking kids with pirated software what they should buy. Sometimes, these piraters do more for a products sales than the company's actual sales dept.
I've always dismissed the argument that piracy or theft == potential market. People have no problem purchasing things at fair prices (indeed, we see in this story that college kids are more likely to buy at prices they can justify); but make no mistake that if they feel the price is unfair, they will probably seek to attain the commodity for free if they can. I have no idea what average salaries vs the price of Adobe software is in those Asian markets. Perhaps it was very expensive in those markets due to standards of living, etc, and what Adobe was asking. Piraters are often just people who wouldn't mind offering an unknown % of the asking price, if only the producer could offer vaiable pricing. The relative success of education discounts as a means of reducing piracy only goes to proove this point.
Don't treat responsible citizens who do illegal things as criminals - ask why those responsible citizens feel they are left with no choice but to commit illegal acts. Usually, you'll find that even if you can make a profit on a smaller group of wealthy consumers, its in your best interests to find ways of additionally offering your product at viable pricing scheme to other markets. The trick is to keep consumers happy when they're aware that the price differs based on your situation. In this 'get a leg up' economy, its a very tricky balancing act.
Who says students are honest? (Score:5, Insightful)
Triv
Tangible ownership (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem faced by the software community is that consumers make their own decisions about how much that's worth. For university students, it's not worth much. They won't pay retail for Office, Mathematica, SPSS, or AutoCad. But if you lower the price enough, they'll buy it. That's what this study is showing.
The other side of the card is that lowering the value of ownership is going to get producers into trouble in a big hurry. Troublesome copy protection on audio CDs that prevents legitimate ripping and OEM OS "restore" CDs instead of full copies are examples. Here they are degrading the ownership value, and that's bad.
Carrots work better than sticks, and choice works better than either.
The way marketing should be done (Score:2, Interesting)
As an example let me talk a little about Trolltechs [trolltech.com] approach with Qt and Borlands [borland.com] approach with JBuilder In both these cases I as an end-user get access to a good product that I can try out and build my own opinion of, not influenced by marketing hype.
If I like the products, I'll be more inclined towards using them in a production enviroment, and I'll gladly buy The Product [farb-rausch.com] (pun intended).
On the other hand, if I don't have a chance to try out a companies products before I buy them, or if I am forced to withstand outrageous license agreements, phone-home "features" or Digital Rights Management then that company can forget to have me as a customer. I'll get something else...
They're asking the wrong question... (Score:2)
The sooner these software companies stop worrying about how many theoretical sales they "lose" to piracy, and start pricing their packages attractively to EVERYBODY (not just students), the better.
I like the point about 'Creative' selling (Score:2)
The same model can also apply to other digital content. Sell crappy MP3 for cheap on the web, the CD costs more, the DVD audio version even more. Allow people to pay what they can and exchange lower quality/convenience for lower prices, instead of trying to lock your content behind steel bars with one fixed price.
-josh
Several factors, IMHO (Score:3, Interesting)
First the number of software users shot up dramatically. Paritally because of the tech boom, partially because computer use wasn't confined to 'leet CS and engineering geeks. With that, the average ability to locate warez, cracks, or to crack themselves dropped, just like internet users at that time (what year did the "endless September" arrive?). BBS's and USENET, both major warez mediums, while still there, are not used by the common computer user anymore.
Plus, all the wealth in the late 90's made it easier for Jr. in college to ask Daddy for the several hundred $ for MS Office.
I'm sure the student discounts help -- a little. But that might be artifically skewing the results. Having been an student and an employee for a university, I know it's not uncommon for both to purchase that $100 copy of Adobe Photoshop for the guy next door, who would otherwise need to pay $700 (or whatever it is now). It does prove that a better price will sell better, though.
"Edu" Versions are the real thing, just cheaper! (Score:3, Informative)
Makes a ton of sense; there's also Photoshop, OS X, etc. all at great prices. Personally, if I can purchase the software for a wallet-friendly price I'm going to do so. It's awesome software that I don't mind shelling out $15 to help out in their efforts. $15 is greater than zero!
My Ass They Are ... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Lack of spending money
2. Time
These two compounding factors are why students "pirate". Not that I'm advocating it, but if you could spend the afternoon downloading 3 albums (instead of watching TV) and then you're able to go out and drink that night because of the 50 bucks you just "saved" not buying those CDs, the fomer option looks pretty attractive to you compared to the latter.
They get GREAT prices (Score:3, Insightful)
If I could get Visual Studio for $25 or whatever insane pricing they get, I'd buy too!
Might be worth going back to school just for the discount
Absolutely meaningless! (Score:2)
The 1996-97 survey was of 148 undergraduates at three public universities and one private liberal arts college.
The 2000-2001 survey was of 700 students at two large public universities.
I bet there wasn't any actual decline. The first survey covered ~37 undergrads at each of four schools. The 37 undergrads surveyed were probably more computer inclined than the rest of the school's population. The second survey covered 350 students at each of two schools. 350 students is a bit more representative of the school at large.
I don't see how one can make any comparisons between the two surveys. The populations sampled are different, the sample size is grossly disportionate. Frankly, given how it was setup, I'm surprised the piracy rate didn't "decline" even more.
And they ignore another equally plausible explanation: students are simply more saavy about lyinh about these sorts of things. After how Napster got taken down, who would be dumb enough to admit to pirating anything?
Bandwidth Lockdown (Score:3, Interesting)
They endorse bundling! (Score:5, Interesting)
Which of our favorite monopolies do you think will use this study to say that bundling provides customer benefit?
Am I off my rocker? Is there another way to interpret this that doesn't say that bundling provides customer benefit? Is this an endorsement of Microsoft's biz practices?
Why, oh why is this? (Score:5, Funny)
A few years ago, I owned a computer store, in my college town. I was routinely asked by many of my student Clientelle how much a copy of WinXX was. when I replied with my near $100 price (dictated by the $70-something OEM price wholesale) I heard snickers and exclamations about price gouging...
I never understood this, as I'd called local retailers and found that my prices were on the cheap side, until I found out what the College was doing.
You could walk in with $20, and a student ID, and " borrow " a copy of Windows, or Office, or whatever! Complete with License sheet and CD. Everything you get in the "OEM" release! They didn't even write down your student ID #!
And, if you didn't return it, you were out only $20...
This, of course, made me FURIOUS, and I made sure that Microsoft knew about it. That's when I started getting Cease and Desist letters alleging that I was commiting software piracy!
That's when the tide turned, and I began to see the light of GNU....
I'm never going back!
A few notes... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hardly a representative sample, in my opinion.
> Assane said it helped to have Chiang, then a master's student at UNLV, involved in the survey because he was familiar with student lingo and culture.
So basically this economics major asked a bunch of people he knew whether they pirate software or not? Does his sample include geeks vs. non-geeks, or only the econ-savvy?
> For one thing, software makers now commonly make agreements with computer manufacturers to "bundle" software
Oh yeah, bundled software really makes me want to pirate less. I love the incompatible copy of MS Works and bloated image loads of Windows that come with new computers (which don't include the original CD anyway, requiring me to obtain a copy in order to load it my way).
> Equally important, software vendors increasingly offer licenses to colleges and universities allowing students to use expensive software cheaply
THIS fact alone is why I feel piracy has decreased (if it really has), although I question the validity of the study without seeing more details.
> Software is simply cheaper now than it was in 1996, reducing the incentive to steal, Chiang said.
Says who? I don't remember exact numbers, but after adjusting for inflation, do the most commonly pirated titles (Windows, Office, Games) cost any less than they did then? I don't think so. Where is their source for this factoid?
> These might include creating a market for "subscriptions" to libraries music and movies or a more efficient approach to the pay-per-download market, he said
Well, at least they got this right, even though it's missing a word.
Rewarding the customer helps... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's look at the game industry, for example. There are at least 6 systems furiously competing today. (DC, PS2, XBOX, GC, GBA, PC) Each of these systems are releasing games like crazy. The problem is, my paycheck in the last few years hasn't risen high enough to buy that many more games, not to mention that the number of hours in the day hasn't increased enough for me to play them. If the number of games released is greater than the amount of disposable money people have to spend, how can they expect everybody to pay the same price for games?
Lowering the price of games for college students, for example, was a great approach! It'd be cool if one day your student ID could get you a discount on games.
I hope the RIAA pays attention to this study. The harder it is to copy music, for example, the more demand there is for somebody to do it. Where there's demand, there's fame. Where there's fame, there's somebody saying "Yes, I'm willing to invest hours into acquiring fame." But if the RIAA were to open up and say "We've lowered the price of CD's, and you're free to copy them and do what you want with them!", they will likely find that going to the store to buy CD's is preferable to waiting to download them.
One idea the RIAA should consider is releasing individual songs on those 2" CD's. Price them low, and then allow people to make their own mixes. Reward the customer for buying these little CD's by letting them create their own single CD that has the songs they want on it. Don't punish the customer for having other desires with music. That's what the economics game is all about. You'll make profit if you give the customer incentive to buy your product. But if you take features away, you're punishing them, and customers don't like that.
I know I don't like being told I'm a thief because I have an MP3 player.
Used to pirate... (Score:2, Interesting)
As Sales Rep for a Software Company (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Offer Software to students @ 4% of list. This translates to less than most text books, and less than a pack of CD's
2. Corner a software market and saturate it to an entire generation before they hit the job market. *ahem Unix, AT&T*
3. Reap rewards when they make future recommendations to employers.
By Allowing students to pay a ridiculously small amount for software initially, they do infact purchase it for full price later on with corporations money....something they can justify
Now, the report says a decline in piracy? Nah, just a slight increase in "legitimate for school" software purchases. They still pirate Music and games, but at least we get the revenue of what they can afford for some APPZ!
- 50% of all taglines are, or are not.
look at the numbers: (Score:2, Insightful)
In 1996/7, they surveyed only 148 undergraduates, finding that about 78 of them (53 percent) admitted to pirating software. This is really too low of a number in too specialized a location (University of Florida students, who may or may not be like students at other universities) to be of much use, even as compared to data on University of Florida students nearly five years later. As if the low sample size and scant other mention about survey design didn't cast enough doubt about the accuracy of their conclusions, the surveyors admit that this number is inaccurate! From the article: " the researchers found 53 percent of the students admitted to pirating software - meaning the true number likely was considerably higher, Chiang said." The purpose of survey design is to create a survey that by its design reduces these built-in biases. If you know that people will lie to you if asked, it's good practice to double-check somehow by, say, auditing their computers for stolen software (you'd probably have to bribe them, and you'd definitely have to assure them that their names would remain anonymous, but still: if they were interested in good survey design, they needed to do better than this)
Even the most recent survey is pathetic. With 700 students surveyed, they now conclude that only 40% pirate (though did they ask the same questions this time? Were students more or less likely to lie this time? What? We need more information than this). But since the original survey was so small, with such a high margin of error, how can they then say with any degree of certitude that there has been a reduction in piracy? There really isn't a big difference between 50% piracy and 40% piracy if the margin of error is +-5% (which it must at least be).
So yeah, while their conclusion that people can be legitimately enticed to buy software (or music) by increasing quality and usefulness, take this survey with a chunk of NaCl.
Yeah, I pirate software (Score:2)
So we band together, buy one copy, and burn copies enough for everyone. Incidentally, I read the license, and it was pretty liberal- the only thing i saw anywhere restricting copying was somewhere along these lines- "There is no limit on the number of computers this software may be installed on, however, the cd must be in the drive for the program to run"
That's it.
I reason they probably want as many students to use Pro-Engineer as possible- so they're accustomed to it- and good with it- so when they start working for engineering firms, the firms are more likely to pay $20 - 40K per seat for an actual license, to make their engineers more productive.
It's really marketing. Of course, I may just be rationalizing my sins, but I've bought my fair share of windows software- and helped myself to the yearly upgrades. Do I feel sorry? no, cause I'm a piss poor college student. I'll pay for proper licenses when I'm a financially secure engineer.
all about the population (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's think about who is using the software.
In 96-97, it was compuer enthusiasts. People who really felt that having a computer was necessary, because it was a tool that they could use to get great things accomplished. These people (due to their interest) were more interested in running software that was beyond their means, and trying out new things, and were savvy enough to accomplish it. These students tended to be more oriented towards sciences, or digital arts.
Fast forward to today, enter the AOL generation where school registration, bill paying, and even homework assignments are being done online. Every average joe needs to have a computer at school (or at least feels this need), and has little comprehension as to what's really going on when they swap their mp3s on napster. Oh sure, there are still scientific users, but the majority of today's computing users study other topics, like english, philosophy, dance, etc.
Here's something creative (Score:3, Informative)
Macromedia Authorware 6: $3,084
Adobe Photoshop 6: $700
Adobe Premiere 6: $620
Adobe Illustrator 10: $470
MS Office XP: $580
MS VS.NET Professional: $570
Macromedia Director 8.5: $1,199
Now, I don't support warezzzzzzzzzzzzing
programs.
But the average student, developer, even small business cannot afford this. Period. When the
average cost of development tools, operating systems, graphics programs, etc. are $500 - $3000 EACH, and the market cannot support that kind of pricing, then potential customers will find another way: either they'll find a less expensive program that has much of the same capability, buy it second-hand, or do without.
This is one reason I think the market for second-hand software is increasing, as much as the publishers would like to have it otherwise.
One thing these publishers should realize is that not every potential customer is a cell-phone-flipping, white shirt and tie "IT Executive" with steel-rimmed glasses and access to a six-figure expense budget.
Where I come from... (Score:3, Informative)
I know WSU run Unix/Linux for all of their systems. All the laptops that they use for freshman initiaition/enrollment all run Red Hat Linux. Remote campuses PCs are owned buy whoever is working there at the time, one guy owns a mac, the other guy has a windows box, and the other is running FreeBSD -- all use an SSH connection over the WSU WAN to get to the student information.
If wichita state switched to MS, offered me cheap software and the rest of our campus but then had to dump their current well working setup - I doubt it would ever happen. Would it decrease piracy? Hell yes it would. IMHO I would pay $10 a pop for WinXp - but not $200. Same goes for Office, Dev apps, Photoshop, etc.
Specious arguments (Score:3, Insightful)
In a 1996-97 survey of 148 undergraduates at three public universities and one private liberal arts college, the researchers found 53 percent of the students admitted to pirating software - meaning the true number likely was considerably higher.
Before I went back to school, I graduated from the police reserve academy. During the academy, I faintly recall a phrase along the lines of "anything you say can and will be used against you . . . " For some reason, if someone called me up asking me if I have committed a federal crime, I don't think most college students would 'fess up. Then again, there are the jocks and the education/sociology/psychology majors, many of whom are still using "that there new Internet thing."
When I took "sadistics" class, I remember something about a "valid" sample. 148 surveyed out of how many millions of undergrad students? Even at that, better than half still admitted to warezing! And he admits that most of the ones who said they didn't probably lied. In sum, you have an invalid sample reaching an admitted unreliable conclusion that, in itself, contradicts the article's "conclusion." Typical of the "news" you see on ./
Still a third issue affecting the decline in piracy is price. Software is simply cheaper now than it was in 1996, reducing the incentive to steal, Chiang said.
Not true for the largest company in the industry. Make no mistake about it, prices for M$ products have gone up, not down, especially for their latest monstrosity, XP. When you're a monopoly, you can raise prices, even when the market is in the toilet. But I digress. Anyway, many of those academic licenses provide cheap or free (just got a fully working copy of Win2K) software with the proviso that it is to be deleted upon leaving school. And of course, every single student does so immediately after graduation. Riiiiight. That, to me, comes perilously close to the dictionary definition of "piracy", further invalidating the "conclusion" of the "study."
Demographics. (Score:3, Insightful)
In '97 or so, there was a significantly smaller percentage of students with their own machines. There wasn't even PPP connection to the dialup pool at my college in '96, let alone ethernet in the dorms. Now there's ethernet drops everywhere, wireless APs in a couple of buildings, and 80%+ of the students brought computers with them to college.
It's a completely different demographic, so naturally it's a different result. Computer geeks who know where and how to get warez are a smaller percentage of the whole now.
--saint
Re:Flawed (Score:3, Informative)
0.53*148 students = 78 students
0.40*148 students = 59 students
(78 - 59) / 78 = 0.24
and you get the same ratio from (0.53 - 0.40) / 0.53. So this is actually correct. Just like 50% of 50% is 25%, you have to remember that percentages are always relative, even when taken of percentages themselves.
Re:Flawed (Score:2)
53-13.25 = 39.75%
So, 40% is a 25% decline. I don't see any flaw there.
T
Re:Flawed (Score:2)
Easy. 53 * 0.25 = 13.25
53 - 13.25 = 39.75
Therefore, 40 is 75% of 53, and 25% lower than 53.
Re:Flawed (Score:2)
53% * 75% = 39.75%
>>This is a very small sampling of students, and from only one school.
It actually worse. The survey of 148 *undergraduates* was across FOUR different schools. The second survey was 700 *students* from TWO schools.
So basically, they're trying to compare the first survey with one that covered four and a half times more students over half as many schools.
Even political polling firms don't use methodology that bad.
Re:Flawed (Score:2)
The net effect is the same... (Score:2)
I've often wondered when warezing would finally become something that is actually disdained by the mainstream, rather than implicitly supported. It looks like we may finally be arriving there.
You know, the strange thing is that I think that computer games were the leader here. They're the ones that pioneer new distribution and pricing models.
Re:Why warez in College? Its Free! (Score:5, Informative)
I checked my school's CIS web site and signed up for the MS introduction of
Yes, at most big schools now they Universities have made deals with bigger software companies to get the software at discount prices. (So the students use the software in school, get sucked in and end up purchasing the software when they leave the University.) For example, Pennsylvania State University offers a "lending library" where students can stop by and borrow cds to install the software on their system. They get a week or so before they have to return it. Also, if you don't want to borrow the cd, you can download an installation file (Most of them are the entire cd in one huge exe file which you can directly install from)
Here [psu.edu] anyone with a Penn State user access ID and the right privledges (student, etc) can download it. They offer Windows ME, Windows XP, Windows Visual Studio (plus Visual Java)... MacOS X licensces, Microsoft Office, and one REALLY useful product, Norton Corporate pro. (I work for a Residential Helpdesk at Penn State... and with all the virii sororites pass around..NO, NOT THAT KIND!!!, the computer kind, being able to install Norton Corporate pro on any machine in the University has made the job a thousand times smoother...)
The download system/lending library counts the liscense and tracks who downloaded what. I don't believe it's actually a bad system they have working here.
Re:Sometimes you have to warez (Score:2)
Piracy will never go away, but by making items reasonably priced from the start, those of us who'd rather buy the program would.
Re:Sometimes you have to warez (Score:2, Informative)