Free as in Freedom: Richard Stallman's Crusade 609
Free as in Freedom: Richard Stallman's Crusade | |
author | Sam Williams |
pages | 225 |
publisher | O'Reilly |
rating | 9 |
reviewer | Danny Yee |
ISBN | 0-596-00287-4 |
summary | Life of Stallman |
Free as in Freedom is a generally sympathetic but far from hagiographic biography of Richard Stallman, inspiration of the free software movement. While much of the material in it will be familiar to anyone actively involved with free software, there are, as Williams claims, "facts and quotes in here that one won't find in any Slashdot story or Google search." It is also an entertaining and accessible study, which I finished within a day of my review copy arriving.
Williams begins with the famous jamming printer and Stallman's encounter with a non-disclosure agreement that prevented him writing reporting software for it. He then jumps forwards to a speech given by Stallman in 2001, responding to attacks by Microsoft on the GNU GPL. Having used these episodes to introduce Stallman and explain the basic idea of free software, the rest of the work continues in a similar vein, mixing historical chapters with ones describing Williams' own meetings with Stallman.
Chapter three describes Stallman's childhood as a prodigy; chapter four his experiences at Harvard and MIT; chapter six the MIT AI Lab and the Emacs "commune"; chapter seven the death of the MIT hacker community and the first announcement of the GNU Project; chapter nine the GNU GPL; chapter ten the appearance of Linux and debates over GNU/Linux; and chapter eleven the coining of the term "open source" and the arguments over that. These contain quotes by everyone from Stallman's mother to the leading lights of free software, as well as plenty by Stallman himself. The narrative never strays too far from its subject, but becomes inextricably interwoven with the broader history and politics of free software and sometimes digresses to cover key figures and events with which Stallman wasn't directly involved.
Williams' first-hand accounts help give Stallman a human face: chapter five recounts a meeting in 1999 LinuxWorld, chapter eight a meeting in Hawaii, and chapter twelve a frustrating car trip with Stallman at the wheel. These give a feel for Stallman's personality and presence, his forthrightness and emotional intensity, his steadfastness and his abrasiveness, and his ability to unsettle. Chapter thirteen attempts to predict Stallman's status "in 100 years," quoting opinions from from Eben Moglen, John Gilmore, Eric Raymond, and Lawrence Lessig; it also suggests that Stallman's personality may be inseparable from his achievements.
Although I was already involved with free software advocacy, my first encounter with Richard Stallman came when he turned up to a rehearsal of my gamelan group; afterwards I tried without much success to explain to my fellow musicians just how important the strange bearded man they'd just met was. I don't think Free as in Freedom would help much with that: it jumps around too much and assumes too much general knowledge of the computer industry to be a good introduction for complete outsiders. Those already interested in the history and politics of free software and hacker culture, however, should relish it.
In an epilogue Williams talks about the writing of Free as in Freedom and the choice of copyright license. Despite the big fuss made about it being released under the GNU Free Documentation License, however, only a sample chapter is available online now and the rest will not, apparently, be put online until June. (This is not a violation of the OFDL, because Williams as copyright holder can allow O'Reilly to distribute the book in any way they like.) So if you don't want to buy a printed copy, you can either wait three months or hope someone OCRs the book sooner.
You can purchase Free as in Freedom from Barnes & Noble, read chapter three online, or check out Danny's 600 other book reviews. Want to see your own review here? Just read the book review guidelines, then use Slashdot's handy submission form.
The basic problem of personality... (Score:2, Insightful)
The reality is that no one person can provide all that we need by way of leadership, yet something in man seems determined to have a singular leader at the apex.
We need to promote "bodies" of people and quit with the personality cults, they are rarely if ever helpful.
Re:The basic problem of personality... (Score:2)
Yet no religion is without a charismatic leader "at the apex".
Helpful or not I'm not the one to judge, still from my experience I can see a body of people performs more effectively when there is a leader.
An effective team is made of many pairs of hands but one mind. And, coincidently, an easy way for a "body" of people to share one mind is to have a leader.
I'm not saying it is not possible any other way (in fact if a group of people can share one mind without a leader, that'd be very impressive and imaginably should outperform a group with a leader), but it is an easy way to achieve similar results.
Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2, Interesting)
Without commenting on whether open source/free software is a good thing or not, what determines whether it is a good thing or not is a matter of economics. Yet someone who has a background not in economics but software development is considered to be insightful and wise when commenting on a very complex matter outside of his field.
General Motors would not promote even it's best engineer to be the companies CEO, nor should those seeking wisdom on the impact of free versus commercial software rely on the screeds of the economically ignorant.
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2, Interesting)
Furthermore, and this is just a general pet peeve of mine, why is it acceptable to listen to the advice of someone with economic/business background but no technical background? Why should someone who has no technical background, has never written a line of code, has no concept of how much difference a code engineer can make, acceptable to comment on the impact of free vs. commercial software. Note that I am not saying the poster is making the claim, but there seems to be the general sense that you need a business/economic background to run a business or comment on a business decision (ie, the use of free vs. commercial software), but you do not need a technical background. Richard Stallman is very intelligent. I think it is incredibly closed-minded to assume he cannot understand economics or that he knows nothing about it. Further, GM may very well put its best engineer as the companies CEO. Let's not forget how many engineers/technical people have built (and led) very profitable businesses. Here are some examples: HP (as it was when Hewlett and Packard ran it), Bill Gates, Red Hat (I understand he is a computer programmer, but I may be wrong). The list goes on. It is foolish to automatically disregard someone who knows a great deal about the type of business a business is in just because he/she does not have a business background...
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course not. If you don't want to share your code with me, then don't license it under a Free software license.
Or are you talking about the so-called "viral" nature of the GPL? (i.e., you may not use my GPL'd code in your program unless yours is GPL'd too). Sorry, you have it exactly backwards. *You* have no right (moral or otherwise) to use *my* code, unless you agree to my license.
Hope that clears it up for you.
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
Here is the clarification: I have no right whatsoever to your creation. However, if you choose to sell me your creation, you have a moral obligation to give me the source code to allow me to modify the program as I see fit. To sell me the program without any way to modify is to sell me a crippled product. It is analgous to selling me a car with the hood wired shut--if the car breaks down, or if I want to modify it, you have prevented me from doing so. You have claimed to sell me the car when all you have truly sold me is some use of the car (the use that I can get out of the car without opening the hood). While selling crippled products may be legally acceptable, it is morally wrong. My apologies to the FSF if I have mischaracterized the argument..
Chrysler did (Score:2)
Maybe not, but when Chrysler promoted Lee Iococca (formal training: engineering) to CEO they were the happiest carmaker in Detroit.
Re:Chrysler did (Score:2)
By your definition engineers are people who are bad at marketing and sales, but that's ridiculous. Someone "trained" as an engineer, is an engineer. Lee Iaccoca was an engineer that is good at sales and leadership. Engineering, salesmanship, and leadership skills are hardly mutually exclusive.
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:5, Interesting)
Many others, including very smart people, disagree with economists that this is so. To cite just one minor problem: preferences of real humans are not transitive. This is a non-resolvable argument, since the economists say "you don't understand economics", the non-economist replies "I am questioning the basis of your argument, not its conclusions", and the economist trumps with "since you haven't stated your argument in terms of economics, it is by definition invalid".
However, in an open discussion forum please don't assume that everyone agrees that everything is explained by "economics" without defining and justifing your argument. Thanks.
sPh
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
Um. Yeah. Whatever. I guess you don't count people like Nobel Prize in Economics winners and professors of endowed chairs of economics at the University of Chicago when you make sweeping, erroneous, and out-of-touch-with-reality generalizations like that, huh?
To cite just one minor problem: preferences of real humans are not transitive. This is a non- resolvable argument, since the economists say "you don't understand economics"
You neglect to mention that it was, in fact, an economist who first "discovered" that preferences aren't always transitive. One such economist who did work in this field, rather than being told he didn't understand economics, was given a Nobel Prize.
without defining and justifing your argument
Hey, maybe you could justify your argument that all people with training in formal economics believe what you say they do?
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
Since the winner of the "Nobel Price in Economics" (not actually granted by the original Nobel Prize committee BTW) is determined by experts in formal economics, I am afraid I do not find your argument overly pursuasive.
sPh
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
You are effectively saying that all things of value are economic, because things that are not economic have no value (i.e., "aimless" academic study...)
Sounds pretty circular.
There's more to life than making money. Indeed, volunteer Free Software developers would be quite inexplicable in a world in which all things were reducible to economic entities, no?
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:4, Insightful)
Not everything in this world can be explained by economics. Economic analysis only works where things can be converted in to a particular 1-dimensional measure (money or its equivalent). Every human activity has some degree of "impedance mismatch" when trying to convert it into simplistic economic models. Economic analysis works well for things such as pork belly futures, but not so well for things like religion.
Most economists probably assume that software is like a commodity. RMS probably assumes that software is like a religion. I suspect that it has aspects of both.
Thus, RMS is qualified to comment about his software area, and economists are qualified to comment about theirs. Neither viewpoint covers the whole picture by itself.
T. Boone Pickens (Score:3, Insightful)
This happens all of the time, when and only when a person with technical skill also has an instinct for business.
In the computing world, Bill Gates is a better example than Ross Perot [perot.org] since Perot was mostly a salesman for IBM before becoming a captain of industry, rather than being a programmer. Thus the Perots of the world support your conclusion, but they are not the only cases.
Yea, I know that mentioning some of these names gives me an automatic karma hit, but they are good examples for this point.
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
I disagree. What you offer is a false dichotomy. Either Open Source/Free Software is justified on the economics or it's not.
Why must this be justified on the basis of economics? Would you recommend a review of the Bill of Rights to the Constitution based on economic impact? Are there, perhaps, other interests and principles at work that may justify Open Source/Free Software?
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
It has done so in the past, and should consider doing so in the future. It'd be better to have a "car guy" running an automaker than a beancounter...or worse, the "shampoo salesmen" the company has been known to hire into top positions in recent years. I suspect that one of the factors in the imminent demise of Oldsmobile, for instance, was that they installed a "brand manager" at the top who they'd gotten from Procter & Gamble who didn't know jack sh*t about cars. (FWIW, GM appears to be relearning this truth right now...some of the "shampoo salesmen" and their ilk are going away and being replaced with car guys.)
Business sense is a Good Thing, but it isn't everything. Probably 95% of it is just common sense to anybody who isn't a communist (at least that's the impression I got from the macroeconomics course I took one semester).
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
As with everything however, you can't be JUST an engineer or JUST a business major. Perhaps business school types should be required to take more engineering courses and vice versa, eh?
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
He was the original project manager for the Ford Mustang project and responsible for the turnaround of Chrysler and the acquisition of Jeep/Eagle from AMC before it floundered.
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
Very few poeple end up doing anything related to what they studied in school by 15 years after graduation. Engineering => Sales, Engineering => Economics, and Engineering => Law are very common paths. Now I grant you Sociology => Electrical Engineering, particularly in self-taught mode, is unlikely, but I have seen it happen.
sPh
Re:Argumentum ad Verecundiam (Score:2)
Overall, Linux is a better OS than Windows (at least Windows 9x) so that shows that Open Source software can compete with closed source. Another, perhaps more probing example is Apache vs. Microsoft IIS.
If you don't believe that you can make money based on Free Software, just ask IBM. They claim to have already recouped the 1G$ investment they made in Linux...
But then again, seeing as how you sound exactly like a MS employee paid to spread FUD on Slashdot would, I doubt that these arguments will convince you...
On a side note, I wonder exactly how many of these MS has assigned to this site? (I'm sure that there are - hey, if I was running Microsoft, I would hire people for that very purpose. Seeing as there must be at least one MS manager as smart and devious as I am, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't...)
Poorly edited! (Score:4, Informative)
Pardon? (Score:2)
You mean as opposed to the steam driven Emacs released in *18*86?
Peace, &c,
(jfb)
Yeah (Score:2)
RMS (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm guessing that if not for a few people, Richard would be stil slightly controversial, but pretty globally respected, in the general slashdot community.
Re:RMS (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing that if not for a few people, Richard would be stil slightly controversial, but pretty globally respected, in the general slashdot community.
Or is it that people bash Stallman because he attacks first? Anyone with a high profile in an important community, who makes statements to the effect of: "It is immoral to do X", where the majority of the people in the community owe their livelihood to X, is bound to be highly controversial, regardless of the opinions of others. Or am I one of the "few people"?
Re:RMS (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, think of this on the same terms as you think about religion or christianity. Christianity says greed is one of the 10 worst sins. Yet our entire economy, and capitalism, is based on the pursuit of greed. So while christianity tells everyone that its immoral and wrong you don't hear anyone complaining about christianity, do you? There are the few that voice their opinions against the religion, but generally people leave it alone. I don't see how the FSF is any different. The Free Software Movement is a religion. Everyone following it accepts and agrees that information needs to be free if we are to accomplish anything on our own, such as writing a whole operating system with enough functionality to compete with world class corporations. And GNU/Linux more than competes. And guess what it cost? Nothing because it was all done by volunteers. Proof that greed is not necessary.
I'm not a christian. And I rarely contribute to free software (because I'm stupid), but RMS is one of my heros.
If you owe your lifelihood to the pursuit of money maybe you should take a step back from your life and reevaluate your priorities. Believe it or not there was a time when humans survived without working for Microsoft. But we're too civil for that, aren't we. I don't know about you, but I wasn't always working for the man. And I certainly don't own him my livelihood. I can make a living anywhere I damn well please, doing anything I feel like. It just so happens that being a sys admin is much easier and makes 20 times as much as moving sand bags. But if I was moving sand bags I wouldn't have a sore back right now, think about that for a moment. I've become lazy all because I'm expected to be some educated professional, when in fact I'm nothing more than an intelligent human, which isn't saying a whole lot. Our livelihoods should not be based on the work we do. But that's a whole different arguement.
Re:RMS (Score:3, Informative)
2.- Christianity was controversial at its birth, precisely because it told everyone what they did was immoral: worshipping the Roman Emperor, killing enemies and looting their houses, engaging in gluttony at banquets, engaging in ritual lust (saturnalia), etc.
The only reason it's not controversial anymore is because Christianity had 2000 years to become the status quo, modify people's behavior and, in turn, be modified into a more flexible belief system.
Do you think Christians were sent to the lions as entertainment because of the prejudiced whim of Roman Emperors? They were sent because they were unpopular and seeing those preachy loonies in the pit was entertaining to the crowds.
I'm not a christian either. But your analogy really holds no water.
3.- Believe it or not there was a time when humans owed their livelihoods to the pursuit of money and had nothing to do with Microsoft. It comprises Modern and Contemporary times.
Believe it or not there is little moral difference between the relentless pursuit of money (a flexible exchange system) and the relentless pursuit of a particularly valuable set of resources, such as gold, land, or even prestige and bloodlines, used at that point as the usual exchange system.
Believe it or not almost all civilizations have been supported by systems as the above. Of the few that have not, I'm not aware of any that progressed through gift-economies. Of those where livelihood was provided to the citizens independently of the work they actually did, the success rate is not very high either, unless you also count in those that degenerated into feudal class systems.
By the way, I find the phrase "But if I was moving sand bags I wouldn't have a sore back right now" amusing. You have not done construction work for a living ever, have you? Or at least it seems you haven't seen the results by the time they retire. Professionals have less of a chance to need a chiropractor, and more of a chance to be able to pay for it.
Give us the good stuff (Score:2, Funny)
I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
Commercial software is not immoral. I have never been able to fathom why making a chair and selling it is a-okay by Stallman, but writing a program and selling it is not. Commercial software makes Free Software possible, since it allows programmers to make money while they sharpen their skills. Yes, there are many awful aspects of commercial software: shrinkwrap licenses, spyware, copy protection, no guaranteed rights for the user, etc. But the whole model of "You give me money and I give you a copy of my software" is never, ever going to go away, and Stallman could make many inroads simply by taking a more pragmatic view and admitting that to himself.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
I have found with any software I've developed and given away, my core rationale (however uncomfortable it is) has been 'ego'. Perhaps Mr. Stallman has a similar well-spring.
Interesting to note... The company I work for (large bank) will not use any product that is freeware or public-license. Why? They need a 'tie to grab' if something goes wrong, needs mods, etc. As well, my company is not in the business of managing someone else's code, even if that someone else is the Open Source Community.
Tie to grab (Score:3)
The "legal liability" argument for commercial software has no legs whatsoever.
Re:Tie to grab (Score:2)
The real issue is economic, though. If we use an open source product, we have no one to modify that product (bug fixes, enhancements, etc.) and no timetable on which to operate. Ultimately, we have to either (1) rely on garnering support in the open source community or (2) fork the code on our own. Neither of which is particularly effective for us.
Re:Tie to grab (Score:2)
Really? Can you cite specific examples where damages have been awarded based on buggy software when those warrantees had been explicitly renounced in the EULAs?
What does happen is that if customers complain too loudly, the manufacturers become concerned about their reputation.
Which is why various organizations have sprung up to offer support for Free Software products, like Covalent for Apache, Linuxcare (and the distro vendors) for Linux, several firms for Postgresql, etc.
Like Commercial software vendors give you timetables for bug fixes? They don't generally, in my experience. The commercial vendors can and do EOL products (with outstanding bugs) you depend on requiring you to completely retool your operation. This couldn't happen with Open Source.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2, Insightful)
The chair analogy is facetious. There is nothing that prevents you from selling GPL'd software. Stallman's basic argument for free software boils down to this: software has bugs, some of which may be repairable by the user of said software if the source code is available. Unless you are shipping bug free software you should ship the code as well or you are doing a disservice to the end user.
To make the chair analogy more apropos, imagine getting on of those wonderful particle boards in a box assemblies from IKEA without any instructions for assembly. IKEA can claim to have sent you the requested piece of furniture but without a guide for assembly it is useless to the user. Granted for simpler pieces a sufficiently motivated person may be able to assemble it anyway, but for any furniture with a significant number of hidden supports that is not the case. As with all analogies this breaks down upon close examination, but then again, that was my original point: software is not equivalent to a finished manufactured good
Incidentally, a better analogy may be other complex systems delivered to an end user such as a nuclear power plant. The handholding and training that the manufacterer (usually Westinghouse or Siemens) has to give to the user (your local utility) is roughly equivalent to providing the source code.
Finally, the "grab a tie" argument has little legitimacy either. If I have a problem with my Linux Kernel, I can hop on the boards (and admitedly absorb some abuse from a few socially underdeveloped board lurkers) and get an answer from the actual software developer themself. Compare this to my officemate who is navigating the "customer support" network of his network card driver manufacterer in an attempt to find the linux drivers the manufacterer claims exist (on thier webpage) but do not provide in any obvious form. He is grabbing lots of ties, but so far the only result is an intense desire to turn them into hangman's nooses.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
Sure, there's nothing legally preventing me from selling my GPL'd software. But nobody will buy my software if there's a version they can download for free.
This is a huge blind spot that none of the GPL zealots ever will address. It just doesn't exist to them. "Sure, sell your GPL'd software! What? You're having trouble selling copies and staying in business? Huh. Can't imagine why. Your software must suck."
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody whines that there's no market for ice now that everyone can afford a freezer. (There used to be a thriving market in selling large blocks of ice for homeowners to use basically as a refrigerator.) It could be that selling software has only temporarily been a means to make a ton of money. It wouldn't be the end of the world.
There isn't much precedent in the world for intangible goods. Even art used to take a master to forge, and if an identical copy was made people would still value the original more simply because of its status as an original.
Now we have software though, which can be copied essentially for free, and which has no special original that people want. Any copy is the same as any other. Why should we expect a market based around this to work like other markets?
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2, Interesting)
One, all software once was free (as in beer) and swapped freely via user groups. Why? The profit model was in hardware and support licenses. That once was taught in the CS curriculum, although I could be showing my age
Two, I've seen more than one company left holding a tie attached to an empty suit while desperate programmers attempt to reverse-engineer a closed-source business-critical application or utility. It might not be entirely legal, but it happens.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2, Insightful)
Like today, most software would be written on demand, for a specific purpose. Without the shrink-wrapped software, this category would increase a lot. We'd probably see great development in ventures like Collabnet. Then there would be all the hardware manufacturers that, like today, need software written to be able to sell their products. The world would still need software and with that demand, somebody will make money by supplying it.
The software business would not go away, it would just be different.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
I would immediately beat him to death, since he would have just destroyed (among other things) computer and console gaming. No Grand Theft Auto 3 for you, punk! It's commercial software, and therefore evil!
Who would pay people to write software?
Like today, most software would be written on demand, for a specific purpose.
I would dispute that factoid. But even if it's correct, it doesn't mean that there's no market for general-purpose software. Quite the opposite!
Without the shrink-wrapped software, this category would increase a lot. We'd probably see great development in ventures like Collabnet. Then there would be all the hardware manufacturers that, like today, need software written to be able to sell their products. The world would still need software and with that demand, somebody will make money by supplying it.
And now we're back to nebulousness. Make money HOW? Feed my kids HOW? The truth is, if Stallman could snap his fingers and destroy commercial software, we would simply build it back up as fast as we could, because it works. Doesn't work perfectly, or even well sometimes, but it does work.
The software business would not go away, it would just be different.
Different how? Details! Tell me HOW I WILL GET PAID!
Here is the truth of it. If Stallman could somehow decree that No One Can Ever Sell Software Again, then 90% of programmers would find themselves out of work, and demand would trickle almost to a stop. People would still keep programming, but on their own time as a hobby. Technical advancement in the industry would grind to a halt. Sales of computers to private individuals would slow since (among other things) there wouldn't be any more commercial-quality software (especially games) to use.
This is the world Stallman apparently wants. But I don't, and I don't think you do either. Think for just a minute. Think about what a Free-Software-only world would be like. Imagine if every single program took as long to get good and usable as Linux did. Or KDE or Gnome. Or Apache.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
It would look like ... this (Score:2)
When did Windows 1.0 come out? And when did NT3.51 come out? Next question.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
You're missing the point.
This is going to sound harsh. Understand that I'm a software engineer as well. I've so far worked exclusively on commercial (and proprietary) software. What I'm going to say applies to me as well.
How you and I get paid is irrelevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how we're going to make money. We're not talking about what is good for the economy.
We're talking about ethics. We're talking about what is best for society. (And society does not necessarily mean the economy.) If society decides that a given behavior pattern is harmful, the loss of an industry associated with it is an acceptable loss. A particular business practice may make money today, but society is under no commitment to ensure that it makes money tomorrow.
Maybe you believe that proprietary software is completely ethical. Fine. However, arguing that it's ethical because you'll put people out of work and destroy an industry is silly. Societies have destroyed industries that society felt were unethical before. In just the United States we've destroyed industries based on slavery, opium, heroin, marijuana, prostitution, animal fighting, and alcohol (briefly). Instead, argue that proprietary software is ethical for other reasons.
As a software engineer, I certainly hope that I'll still be able to work in the field. Unlikely though it is, I have to accept the possibility that society as a whole will decide what I do is unethical. If I don't, I'm just a hypocrite who should not be supporting restrictions on any of the industries in the "laundry list of evil" above.
FREE is NOT about NOT selling software (Score:3)
If you do a good enough job, you'll get the money from people who want to use YOUR code and not write their own. That's a fact jack.
This is the ONLY profession that steadfastly refuses to understand the scientific method and the principles voiced by Newton; "I see far because I stand on the shoulders of giants." Scientific progress is about an upward spiral.
Instead we have midgets grubbing around in flat little circles trying to use "clean room" techniques to reinvent the wheel so some ass-hole won't try to sue them for having used some fuckin' common sense.
You have NO progress that way. You have no Linux, No GNU, no standards. You have the victory, and a mighty small one it has to be, going to who is already the winner. That does you dick all good in both the short and the long term.
If you're missing a feature now, its "tough tits!" because the code is locked up. If Word doesn't do something you want now, you're totally fucked until M$ wakes up and sees some competitive advantage in doing something like it but you know it will be done to their advantage not yours. Otherwise, you're sucking bus exhaust.
When software is free ("Free" as in "libre" a great concept I do wish the English language had a word for so I wouldn't be putting a French word in quotation marks [1],) then you can add it, test it, use it and toss it back to the developper for inclusion into the product and further refinement by the community of other people who would be interested in the feature.
Most people will yawn. That's not value added to them. Lets face it how many of you can even put a scalar on the number features in the average software package.
The days of trying to sell software made by the creeping feature creature are over. Its not about standards, interoperability, colaborative software, APIs.
If you software can't communicate with mine, then I don't want to know about it. I have no possible use for it because you've witten software I can't possibly use.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3)
Ah, someone else who can't tell the difference between commercial and proprietary. Or who thinks that because the two are currently often present at the same time, they must be interchangeable. Or who thinks others think this way. Who cares which, it's wrong any way.
Different how? Details! Tell me HOW I WILL GET PAID!
Why should I care? Honestly, tell me why I should care whether or not you are smart enough to get paid? Why should I care that your favorite business model would no longer work, and you aren't creative enough to come up with one that would? Why should I care that you are so tied to the notion that the only way to make money off software is to sell proprietary software in shrink-wrapped boxes that your children will starve as soon as that model ceases to work? Why should I describe to you how to survive when things change, because the only way you know how to live is to keep them the same? Your fear of change is not my concern.
Or to put it succinctly: Figure it out yourself. There are plenty of examples, so I can't believe you'd find it so hard. I get paid to program, and we aren't selling any of it. Honestly, there are bad business models, and sometimes a model that used to good becomes bad. Deal.
Here is the truth of it. If Stallman could somehow decree that No One Can Ever Sell Software Again, then 90% of programmers would find themselves out of work, and demand would trickle almost to a stop.
Perhaps so. Thank goodness that isn't what Stallman is trying to do! Your inability to distinguish between commercial and proprietary just highlights your crippling inability to imagine how software could be commercial without being proprietary. Demonizing someone else based on your own lack of vision is too typical to be condemned, but I'm also not going to give you any sympathy for it.
Imagine if every single program took as long to get good and usable as Linux did. Or KDE or Gnome. Or Apache.
Those are all really bad examples. And if you compare these open source projects and the amount of time spent on them to the internal development cycles of commercial products, I don't think you'd see much difference. But of course that is moot, because the world you're imagining isn't one that anyone else is trying to cause to exist. Because there are more than enough people smarter than you who would continue to profit from software development even in a proprietary-free world. Those who aren't smarter than you might stop development, and thus, yes, the total amount of software might decrease. But frankly, I can't say I'd expect to miss software written by those people.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
And this is your crippling inability: the inability to realize that to outlaw proprietary software is to outlaw commercial software, because if you cannot control the distribution of your software, then you cannot get paid for it. Period. End of disussion. Full fucking stop.
I want to write computer games. Who is going to pay me for my game when they can download a copy for free?
Free Software is not a panacea! It is not a valid model for every aspect of this business, and I wish you people would stop saying that we should simply give up and "trust the Force" here. Anybody with a brain can see that it won't work!
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
In my 20+ year career, I've worked mostly in integration and support. I guess there have been times when something I've written has gone into a product that has been sold, but overwhelmingly, I've produced custom changes for a specific organization's use, I've done integration of software into a specific environment or I performed technical support of systems in use.
I don't think that I've ever supported myself or my family on commercial software. So, I don't feel very threatened by Free Software. In fact, I think my opportunities for integration, custom modifications and support would improve if Free Software were more prevalent.
YMMV, of course.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
You must be replying to somebody else. I didn't say that any kind of software was invalidated. I said that I felt unthreatened by the rise of Free Software and that it actually might increase my opportunities.
So many people act like the sky is falling and that they won't be able to feed their families if Free Software keeps advancing. I don't see it.
Does the rise of Free Software "invalidate or necessity of external-use software"? Last I checked, Free Software is all (or almost all) in the "external-use" category. Seems like Free Software actually validates and fills the need for "external-use" software.
Is your argument that "external-use" software will suffer if it's not supported by licenses and commercial organizations? Well then, if this is the case, then I would think that the Free Software alternatives won't compete very well and the commercial organizations selling licensed software have nothing to fear.
There's a lot of FUD spread around about the Free Software movement. One of the worst is that it will lead to starving programmers. I've not seen a shred of evidence to support this.
It certainly is possible (Score:4, Insightful)
Commercial software is not immoral. I have never been able to fathom why making a chair and selling it is a-okay by Stallman, but writing a program and selling it is not. the whole model of "You give me money and I give you a copy of my software" is never, ever going to go away, and Stallman could make many inroads simply by taking a more pragmatic view and admitting that to himself.
No one said that the speculative manufacturing model was the only way to make money off software. Its perfectly valid to work on a contract basis, where you get paid as you go for the work you are doing. In fact thats what most programmers do.
Think of programming as service sector rather than manufacturing sector. Stallman is never going to admit that hoarding information using force is moral, which you seem to want him to do. Software is a commodity, deal with it. You certainly arent paying royalties for every bit of knowledge in your head, why should others?
The ranks of rms detractors are heavily stocked with the short sighted affiliates of manufacturing sector software companies. They want to make money by oppressing others, using patents, copyrights, and other tools of force. They dont understand that sharing an infinite resource makes noone poorer. If everyone shared, we would all be much richer for it.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:5, Insightful)
But once I've purchased the chair, I'm free to reverse engineer it, modify it, hire someone else to modify it, resell it, lease it, rent it. I'm not able to with most commericial software.
I might be able to make exact copies of the chair I purchased, the only restriction would be copyright law (and perhaps patent law). I suspect Stallman would be very unhappy with being unable to make copies (possibly modified) of a chair he really liked and giving them to his friends and neighbors. It simply hasn't become a real issue yet because making copies of a physical objects is slow and expensive. At some point humanity may create technology making it easy to make copies of chairs, cars, and other physical objects and we're going to have this entire argument again.
Stallman isn't against commericial software. He's against software which restricts the freedom of users. Freedoms we take for granted with physical objects. Does his point of view make it very hard to support a commercial industry in software? Perhaps. Perhaps the industry will adapt. (After all, most software is developed for internal use in a company only.) But if you really believe that something is immoral, you need to fight it even at the potential cost of an industry.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
Because copyright is a tradeoff with society. It is not a 'natural' right (if you even believe in such things). The purpose of copyright is to provide incentive for creative works. Society demands benefit in return for providing a protectionist monopoly. Where the balance should lie is the subject of a wonderful book, "The Future of Ideas" by Lawrence Lessig.
The poster brings up another important point. What if we do develop replicators? I certainly don't morally restricted from buying a shirt from K-mart and then replicating it. Perhaps a balance could be struck in preventing the replicator from being used for commercial purposes, but I don't see a problem in giving copies of the shirt to anyone for no profit.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:4, Insightful)
This may sound like a decent statement, but you have to remember that copyright isn't supposed to protect you from all potential losses, but rather to simply provide enough incentive so that a decent amount of creative work gets created. Copyright is certainly not meant to be 'perfect' it is meant to be 'porous'. Society has a great interest in seeing copyrighted works fall out of protection, as it allows for more works to be built on older ones.
Personally I'd like to see ideas similar to Lawrence Lessig's concering copyright in his "The Future of Ideas". Copyrighted works must be registered, and terms last for 5 years, renewable X times (he suggests 15 times, I'd go for 4). Software works that wish to be protected under copyright must have their source provided to the copyright office, and their term is 5 years, renewable once. The reason the term for software should be shorter is because the effective lifespan of software is much shorter than that of a written work. I can still read Shakespeare, but I can't do much with software written in the '80s.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
Yet another "I wish he held my ideas, not his ideas (which I'll dismiss out of hand)".
Stallman has not and never will adequately address the issue of how we'll feed our kids in an all-Free-Software world.
He certainly has. He says that you should work in some other field if you can't earn your living with free software. In his own case, he has said (tongue in cheek?) that he would work as a waiter. You may not like this answer--but see point one.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
I think that may be the most arrogant, self-centered thing I've ever heard in my life.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
Opinion noted.
Still try and apply this to air. We all agree that the ability to breath air should be granted to everyone without some sort of licensing requirement. Any such industry that builds up around the selling of air, and that sues people who breathe air without paying is just plain wrong. Our laws should not support that kind of thing. Our society should not applaud those industry leaders. That entire industry would be, if it existed, in the wrong! People working in it, should find another career because they're supporting something that is wrong.
Switch air and software, and you get RMS's point of view. To RMS, software is *supposed* to be as free as air. Anyone who supports such an industry and justifies their support of it because they've based their livlihood on it, well, that's just tough.
If you believed that software was supposed to be free, you'd probably do and say the same things that RMS does and says. Think about how you'd feel about an industry that licensed you the right to use air, and you get an idea of how RMS thinks about the software industry.
Now you may disagree with RMS about his basic belief as to whether or not software should be free. But that's a whole site different than saying that he's behaving badly. He's behaving exactly like I would behave if I really believed the same things he believed. Which means that if I want to change his behavior, I've got to address the the belief, not the actions that result from it.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:3, Insightful)
Switch air and software, and you get RMS's point of view.
But nobody has to make air. It's just there, and without it you die, so of course it would be illegal and immoral to try to limit people's access to it. So his analogy is flawed on a fundamental level, but because he's got tenure and sycophants surrounding him, he never has to face up to that truth.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2, Insightful)
IANRMS (I Am Not RMS) but from what I've heard him say, his view is that programs are no different from speach and ideas. He believes that the use of ideas cannot be limited through barter and trade. Comparing a chair with... oh say... the first ammendment of the US Constitution is pure nonsense! You cannot require that someone only be allowed to make use of the first ammendment only if that person has purchased it from a qualified retailer.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the key. The idea of Free Softare has no problem with you selling software. Just don't restrict the customer in his ability to manipulate that software to his liking, and redistribute it.
Of course, the catch is the problem of your potential customers getting the software from your first customer. I haven't entirely resolved this issue, but the once-removed customer certainly does not get support from you. This is key to RedHat's business model.
Re:I would like Stallman more... (Score:2)
Yes, there is, and I'd like to see us get there. I agree that the operating system of a computer should be free - you should not have to pay someone to turn on your computer. And certain applications, like basic compilers should be free.
And user rights must be maintained. The right to time-shift. The right to make backup copies for archival purposes. The right to disassemble and reverse-engineer.
But developer rights must also be respected. The right to choose which license we release under. The right to not have our software stolen if we choose not to release it under a free license.
The cult of personality (Score:5, Interesting)
Before the Internet became ubiquitous RMS was pretty much a lone voice in the wilderness. There were a lot of people like myself who thought it somewhat off that academics could develop software with public money and then sell it for personal profit.
The Web took off because of open source, but without the RMS ideology. The original CERN libwww was pure public domain with no restrictions whatsoever. In retrospect we really should have at least required applications to inform the end user of the source. If we had done that NCSA would have had to at least mention CERN in the documentation, and the fact that CERN had provided most of the lines of code. Had we actually protected outrselves against Marc's plagarism then we might not have got kicked out of CERN.
What I absolutely have no regrets about is the complete lack of any viral clauses.
People complain about Microsoft and others ripping off my ideas for profit. Well heck, first I am not exactly doing baddly these days. But more importantly I want my ideas to be used.
Even attribution is not such a big issue. I realised that it was useful for there to be a US citizen that the notoriously xenophobic US media could project as the inventor of the Web. What I did not anticipate was that he would then hire a major PR firm to promote himself as the sole visionary behind the Web and attempt to erase Tim and the rest of us from history.
Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:2)
Sorry Richard, but this is how some of people put bread of the table. There is nothing evil about seeking training, obtaining a skill, and then marketing that skill.
Recently NaN went out of business. They published a closed source but free beer piece of software called Blender. They gave a free version away and sold manuals and such to support the company. Towards the end, they came out with a slightly higher end product and charged money for it, while still maintaining the free version. It was the best peice of 3d software for Linux, bar none.
I would pay good money to bring back NaN and Blender. I financially support them, and would again.
Some people write free software and give it because they can afford to. Linus is one of those people. Good for him. But if he decided tomorrow that he needed to sell the Linux kernel instead of giving it away, I'd pay for it. He's proven it's worthwhile. And RMS would shaft Linus publicly for it.
I guess what I wish RMS could understand is that free and charity are good, but supporting small business and start ups and freeware independant programmers is also good.
When an underdog company produces a piece of software that beats whatever M$ has made, RMS could get behind them, but he won't. RMS will have none of that.
Re:Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:2)
That is a factually incorrect statement.
Please see Selling Free Software [fsf.org], an official FSF position document which encourages free software authors to sell software, for a counterexample.
Please retract your error.
Re:Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:2)
While opening the code would allow wider development, bug-checking and all of that good stuff, it also removes the incentive to pay the original author.
Re:Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:3, Informative)
Again, factually incorrect. Stallman and the FSF have always supported the right of authors to keep their code private and not release it at all. In fact, the FSF objected to Apple's license for the free portions of OSX, because the license said that the source code had to be made available for any deployed version of the software, rather than any published version of the software. Stallman has always held that authors should have the right to keep their code private if they wish.
What Stallman and the FSF object to is publishing/selling software and then restricting the freedom of those you sell it to to use it how they wish.
You're zero for two so far, buddy. If you're interested in debating Stallman's opinions, I suggest you do some reading and find out what they actually are.
TheFrood
Re:How does selling free software work economicall (Score:2)
Or how about the idea that I support the effort financially so it continues to serve me.
I buy a copy of Red Hat about once a year. I don't have to - my cable modem could grab the ISO overnight and I could burn it in the morning. But it's my way of supporting the cause. And I'm not distro biased - next time it may be Mandrake or someone who has the better mousetrap.
Re:Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:3, Insightful)
https://agia.fsf.org/ [fsf.org]
Re:Not-free as in closed minded. (Score:2)
Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean I should pay RMS for some GNU software? Well, when you give your code away to your competetors you have to accept that they may package your code with something that adds to it's value. Red Hat has done just that. And next time I may buy Mandrake. They took Red Hat's (and RMS's) code, and added still more. Just because my money didn't go in RMS's pocket doesn't mean I didn't buy it.
In the end, I'm looking for the best software, and as a consumer, I appreciate the fact that Linux distros are cheaper that Windows.
Stallman one of the most interesting people alive (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Stallman one of the most interesting people ali (Score:2)
Calling Larry Wall (Score:4, Informative)
Free as in free to use but restricted (Score:3, Interesting)
When I want my code to be free as in freedom, I put it under a BSD, MIT or Beerware license; why should I decide someone else is less deserving of using my code than anyone else? That's not very free.
Sure, people can place restrictions on their changes, but those changes are their work and I'd rather not take away their freedom in controling it, and I definately don't want to take away their freedom of control over code that happens to use something I've written.
That's not to say there's anything wrong with the GPL, just that pushing it as a "free" license rather pushes the concept of freedom to breaking point IMO.
Agreed, and I think the GPL is great (Score:2)
Dick vs. the rest of the world. (Score:2)
An introduction: Hackers (Score:2)
I imagine the Stallman book would make a lot more sense after reading it. Also, if you can get ahold of "In the Beginning Was the Command Line" by Neil Stephenson, its a wonderful guide to the history of OSes on personal computers, which plays into this as well.
Talking in Cambridge next week (Score:3, Informative)
That's Cambridge, Cambridgeshire rather than Cambridge, MA BTW. Send mail to rmstalk@fipr.org for details.
This is important right now because of the proposed EU patent directive; it would be good for the mainstream press to attend.
Re:Talking in Cambridge next week (Score:2)
Here are the details of the talk on the 25th.
As the special guest of the Foundation for Information Policy Research:
Richard Stallman Software Patents - Obstacles to software development Date: Monday 25th March 2002Time: 16:15-17:30
Venue: Large Lecture Theatre, University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory
Directions: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/UoCCL/contacts/ [cam.ac.uk]
Poster: http://www.fipr.org/stallman.html [fipr.org]
This event will also see the launch of the "Friends of FIPR" - this will be your chance to become a founding supporter of the UK's only effective think tank addressing Internet issues.
All are welcome!
Serendipity (Score:2)
most interesting? (Score:2, Insightful)
He's an uncompromising fanatic, and that makes him interesting in the same way that religious zealots are interesting. What is more interesting is the cult-following that he has managed to achieve. He's managed to convince a group of otherwise bright people to focus solely on the gospel of the GPL.
Weird, I started out writing this to show that Stallman isn't interesting at all, but the more I think about it, the more I realize he is. I may not like the way he or his minions behave, but it's definitely interesting...
Interesting ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Um..yeah. If you spent 12 years sleeping on the floor
of your office, under your desk, you'd be interesting too. As well as mad as a hatter, and without a girlfriend.
Respect and all that...but he is a freak.
Bill Gates 'review' (Score:4, Funny)
O'Reilly has reviews [oreilly.com] of the book available. Among them, is a 'review' by Bill Gates:
Stallman's legal accomplishments (Score:5, Insightful)
The GPL, which is a legal concept, is Stallman's great innovation. It will be remembered long after his code is forgotten.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, we all like to discover something new and jump on the latest bandwagon but it's a shame that the endless quest for novelty often obscures what is fundamentally important.
Until people (wider population, not just Slashdot) actually hear and understand Stallman's message I think he's perfectly right to continue sending it out.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:5, Insightful)
And let's not forget that the guy is, to borrow a Bostonism, "wicked smaht." He's MacArthur "genius" grant recipient, the guy frigging invented Emacs, which is a work of twisted genius comperable to the Necronomicon. You may think that his line is boring as dirt, but think how rotten it must be from his perspective - can you imagine spending hours of your time every day trying to convince people that the sky is blue?
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:4, Funny)
can you imagine spending hours of your time every day trying to convince people that the sky is blue?
The trouble is, people keep telling him that the sky can be grey, white, or almost black. Yet he refuses to believe them.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:2)
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:2)
Re:Emacs? (Score:2)
But every I run across an Editing Task from Hell. Some kind of manipulation of a text data file or a set of bloated source files that is highly repetitive but not simple subsitution. The kind of thing that to do in a typical GUI editor you have to spend a few hours doing a mime's impression of an industrial robot.
Then I bust out emacs, which magically turns a day's worth of drudgery into a few minutes of stimulating mental excercise. I'd call an editor that can do that a work of genius.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your question answers itself.
Why are you asking this question? Why aren't you asking "How exactly is istartedi interesting?". I'll tell you why. It's Because RMS is famous and I'm not.
That's enough, but it sort of begs the question "why is he famous?". The answer to that is long and difficult. Some would argue that he isn't famous, and outside the computing community that's true, but only because those outsideers don't realize what an impact the GNU culture has had (for better or worse) on the devices that impact their daily lives.
You could also ask, "at what point did he cross the threshold and become famous?". Was it when he took vengeance on Symbolics? Was it when the GNU project was announced? If he hadn't been at MIT, would anyone have cared? Did the MacArthur grant make him famous? I think pinpointing the exact moment is difficult.
Love him, hate him, love what he stands for, hate what he stands for. Regardless, I don't think there is any arguing that he is an important figure.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Ok, I'll bite. How precisely has GNU had an impact on the average person's life? Even if GNU has touched their lifes in some knowable way, that doesn't mean it was instrumental.
In any event, I suspect most of those on slashdot, even the real so-called "geeks", would find this man boring if they had to talk to him for any extended period. The man is driven by some rather simplistic ideas to the exclusion of all else (even that of the core cause which is supposedly promotes). That's NOT interesting.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:2, Informative)
In 1971, as a freshman at Harvard University, Stallman became a hacker at the MIT AI Laboratory. In the 1980s, the hacker culture which was Stallman's life began to dissolve under the pressure of the commercialization of the software industry. In particular, other AI Lab hackers founded the company Symbolics, which actively attempted to replace the free software in the Lab with its own proprietary software. For two years, from 1983 to 1985, Stallman single-handedly duplicated the efforts of the Symbolics programmers to prevent them from gaining a monopoly on the Lab's computers.(Emphasis mine)
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean he is very consistent in what he says and believes?
> it's certainly anything but interesting.
I dunno. I met Richard Stallman at the Atlanta Linux Showcase a few years ago. He is definately different. Very quiet until you press the right button. I walked up to his stand where he was sitting - books were being sold at the booth. I bought an AWK book and ask him if he would sign it - he said no. I asked why and he told me he didn't write it. I said ok which book did you write - he said they were sold out. I asked if there was anything he WOULD sign and he said sorry all was sold out. Man was I frustrated heh. But then I kinda realized that he was concerned that if he signed something, he would be held as endorsing something.
He was generally enjoying the whole thing too as I could see. We talked a little bit and I said I appreciated everything he's doing for Free Software and that I was going to get an autograph next time I saw him. He just grinned like the Mona Lisa.
You don't think such a personality is interesting? I do.
Re:How exactly is Stallman interesting? (Score:2)
A body shouldn't have to entertain to be interesting. He's interesting because he's picked a fight he believes in, and is fighting it continuously without giving an inch. That kind of conviction is all but dead today. IMHO, he'd be far less interesting if he were trying to pretty up the message and reframe and redecorate it until it was something more politically/publicly "fun and tasty."
from behind glass (Score:2, Funny)
Re:hagio what? (Score:2)
Re:hagio what? (Score:2)
of or relating to hagiography
cross reference to hagiography is:
Re:Crusades is appropriate (Score:2, Insightful)
Your description "force people to accept your way of thinking, and if they refuse, than you are not as enlightened as those people" is something every group seems to be guilty of however. Staunch conservatives, especially now, label anybody with even the smallest liberal leanings "treehuggers", or more recently "terrorist sympathizers". Pure liberals label anybody with even slightly conservative leanings "facists". Microsoft has declared anybody who supports the FSF's ideals "Unamerican". It's all rhetoric and spin and the important thing is to learn to recognize it whether you consider yourself a member of the group spouting rhetoric or not.
You're obviously a troll " the only real difference is the RMS has not killed anybody for his crusade(yet) ", but you've hit on a nerve that I had to respond to.
Re:There is no need to use the GPL for text (Score:2)
Re:There is no need to use the GPL for text (Score:2)
The current "Ask Tim" [oreilly.com] at ora is about this very thing. The url will change when the next Q&A is posted.
TWW
Re:Is it just me . . . . (Score:2)
I read alot of the Unabomber's Manifesto. It makes alot of sense from one point of view; we are destroying our planet with technology. However, this is where my opinions differ from the Unabomber - to wit: Blowing people up is not the answer.
So, if you are going to compare Richard Stallman's writing to the Unabomber's then that is ok in the sense that they both have academic backgrounds - they just have different methods of achieving their goals.
Your assertion then carries no weight.
Re:The measure of a public figure... (Score:2)
Root Mean Square ???