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Music Media

Internal MP3 Server? 1 Million Dollars Please 749

nkruse pointed out that our pals as the RIAA are breaking new ground. According to this Reuters Article, the RIAA has succeeded in collecting 1 million US dollars from Arizona based Integrated Information Systems. IIS apparently had a corporate MP3 repository on it's network. This is the first time I've heard about the RIAA doing this kind of thing. Looks like they're taking a page from the BSA handbook.
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Internal MP3 Server? 1 Million Dollars Please

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  • More, more, more! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by browser_war_pow ( 100778 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:30PM (#3313448) Homepage
    The more they do this the more enemies they will get and the less sympathy they will get from the public!!
    • by Lemmy Caution ( 8378 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:43PM (#3313525) Homepage
      You forgot the OSPS. The "Oh! Shiny! Pretty! Syndrome." It's our culture that they own, and in the long run, in general terms, we aren't going to do without it. As far as I am concerned, there are two possible outcomes: 1) a far-reaching change in the legal status of intellectual property recognizes that "music" is going to be a verb and not a noun, a service and not a good, that people will have to make sure that they're going to get paid ahead of time, or 2) we hand over our cajones to the RIAA and its ilk, we allow more invasive, more draconian, and more wide-ranging legislation and enforcement creep into our day-to-day life, restricting things that our technology and our instinct to share with each other make natural, and the RIAA and their pals get richer.

      I know I sound like a broken record with this, but there isn't a market solution (i.e., boycott) for this. With cops and courts at the RIAA's beck and call, there's not much of a technological solution, either. There has to be a political solution.

      • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:44PM (#3313873) Journal

        There has to be a political solution.

        Poltics is the art of compromise. Do you think it's a lost art? It's the art that's in the Constitution with regards to IP, and it's an art that can be redisovered. Maybe teachers are too busy teaching kids how to put on condoms to rediscover the Constitution. Why do you believe the outcome is going to be one-sided? Why do the RIAA or the AIP movement have to "win". If either side wins, everybody loses. It's just a different kind of loss.

        I'm not so sure if we need a political solution anyway. If the RIAA really needs money to do things, and if they really can't stop people from stealing their music, then they will eventually run out of money and logicly, no longer be able to do things. If, in the mean time, they start punishing people who haven't done anything wrong, this will only accelerate the process. Why? Because I know that I, if punished for having done no crime, will be converted to the pirate camp. I suspect others will jump ship too, thus accelerating the process. If I have to deal with clunky built-in copy protection that makes it hard to work, that might easily be enough to push me over the line. It just depends on how much they are punishing me for having DONE NOTHING WRONG. It's only fair--if I have to do the time, I might as well do the crime.

        OTOH, if someone can come up with a successful business model that's an alternative to what the RIAA offers, that will work too. Or, maybe the RIAA will actually do some kind of customer survey and discover that they really are losing customers because they are being dicks. That would tend to create non-extreme reform also.

      • Or do what I did- stop buying music. And no, I don't download music, either. When in the mood I just listen to my collection of CDs all bought pre 1994.

        I know I'm the oddball here by actually boycotting something, but we all do our little bit.
      • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @10:29AM (#3316727) Journal

        we hand over our cajones to the RIAA and its ilk

        Why would they want our large boxes?

        I think you meant "cojones". The word "caja" means "box" and adding the "ón" ending indicates "large", so "cajón" means "large box", and "cajones" is the plural, "large boxes".

        The word "cojón" means "testicle", so "cojones" is "testicles", which, I suspect, is what you really meant.

        Correct spelling is often important, but when you're using words from another language it can be really important.

    • Re:More, more, more! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by technizmo ( 535731 )
      Actually, this is a textbook example of 'trickle-down' enforcement. Shut down the companies basing their business on swapping, then, shut down companies permitting swapping. When the time comes to prosecute individual people, any incumbent mindset or mechanism for owners' (not consumers) rights will have already been broken down, leaving little momentum or resolve to combat the proceedings.

      More than likely, the RIAA et al. are hoping that prosecution of individual people will become unnecessary, save for a couple good example-setters.


    • The more they do this the more enemies they will get and the less sympathy they will get from the public!!

      Also known as:

      The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

      ~z
  • I'm not sure why this is a problem.

    A company promoting piracy is even worse than the individual person who feels it's OK to shoplift or steal music.

    What type of "fair use" could possibly apply here?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:35PM (#3313481)
      Huh? If I bring my CDs into work, I can play them on a boombox loud enough for the whole office to hear. That's called "fair use". But now if I take those same CDs into work, convert them into MP3s, and let the same people listen to them, now its "pirating"? All these people did was use the corporate network to timeshift the playing of a few CDs; this sort of falls in the grey area between fair use and exploitation, but by no means justifies a million dollar fine.
      • by dimator ( 71399 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:25PM (#3313788) Homepage Journal
        now if I take those same CDs into work, convert them into MP3s, and let the same people listen to them, now its "pirating"?

        What if you're using your CD in your car, and someone at your work is listening to the same CD's mp3's? You got two people using the same disc, essentially.

        • by Dr. Awktagon ( 233360 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @11:19PM (#3314264) Homepage

          You got two people using the same disc, essentially.

          And..... and what? The universe explodes? Time starts moving backwards? Giant marshmallow-men roam the streets? Somewhere, a musican you don't know dies?

          Copyright law is really starting to smell, if you ask me. Somebody better drag it out of the room before it really stinks up the place.

    • by maraist ( 68387 ) <michael.maraistN ... m.com minus poet> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:37PM (#3313495) Homepage
      A company promoting piracy is even worse than the individual person who feels it's OK to shoplift or steal music.

      Piracy is when you take music that didn't belong to you (or your immediate family). We're not talking the distribution of music.. We're talking the playing of music threw a digital loud-speaker. It's at most no different than a company playing a CD throw a real loud-speaker, getting caught by the immorally abusive RIAA. I can not believe such an offence is worth $1 million in back-pay (ignoring for a moment, that I believe that such activity is illegal).

      If individuals pirate the music off the mp3 server, then they are individually responsible for piracy.

      The whole question of napster is still unresolved as far as I'm concerned, so my chief argument is that it's not a cut and dry bad company.

      -Michael
      • Technically, it's a public performance if it's going out a loudspeaker, which makes it no different than playing it at a ballpark or over the airwaves. Even hold music (we appreciate your business, blah) has to be licensed through the appropriate groups (BMI, etc.).

        Not that I agree with it. *mutter*
      • Piracy is when you take music that didn't belong to you (or your immediate family). We're not talking the distribution of music

        Actually we are talking about that, "post and share"

        If individuals pirate the music off the mp3 server, then they are individually responsible for piracy

        It seems that is not what happened, "server dedicated solely"

        From the article:

        ... IIS's company server dedicated solely to allowing employees to post and share thousands of copyrighted MP3 files ...
      • Piracy? Arrrgh! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Arker ( 91948 )

        Piracy is when you take music that didn't belong to you (or your immediate family).

        No, actually piracy is when you take over a ship on the high seas. What you are talking about is copyright infringement. I don't mean to be rude, but please don't do their work for them by helping them mangle the language like that.

    • by ZoneGray ( 168419 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:13PM (#3313731) Homepage
      Well... under the law, it's clearly wrong. What's disturbing is:

      1) the amount of money involved... a million dollars would buy a lot of CD's, I can't imagine the employees swapped THAT much music; and it's not clear that the "company promoted privacy," from the article, it could have been something that some IT guys set up on an old piece of hardware.

      2) usually, when an out of court settlement is reached, the parties agree to confidentiality. Presumably, the RIAA wanted to use it for publicity... but you'd think that permission to publicize the amount must have reduced the settlement amount. So the settlement was for a million dollars PLUS permission to drag IIS's name in the mud.

      This makes it clear to me that IIS settled to avoid legal expenses... unless this was an especially egregious violation, a million dollars far exceeds any real damages. You'd have to be pretty unlucky to have a jury award that much for a business-to-business violation (most of those huge "punitive damage" awards occur in individual or class-action suits)

      So, what's distressing about this is the legal scare tactics... the lawyers of the RIAA member companies vs. legal counsel of a single IT company. These people are out to do damge to anybody who steps on their toes, and they don't care whether they do it by winning a judgement or by running up their targets' legal expenses. It's a common tactic, but a pretty slimy one.

      Not that I expected any better from those people.
    • by Erris ( 531066 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:24PM (#3313787) Homepage Journal
      What type of "fair use" could possibly apply here?

      That's kind of a demanding stance for someone who's trying to screw me out of money. Rather than me justify my like of music to you, why don't you justify your desire to keep me from listening to my friend's music and take $1,000,000 from my company's retirement fund?

      It's hard to tell what you are thinking. So, does an internal MP3 archive constitute a republication? How about the company library? Look at all those bad people sharing books and drawings without paying for it each time! I watch people at work swap CDs all day. The company here encouraged and institutionalized the practice, tell me what's wrong with that. Tell me how that is remotly related to killing people at sea to steal their cargos, "piracy", or walking out of a store with something you did not pay for, "shoplifting".

      Once again, the RIAA has screwed the pooch. If anything, the central MP3 player constitutes a big advertisment. Expect music sales to go down in the area, and elsewhere. This latest bonehead move has convinced me to never buy another new major lable recording again. I refuse to give my money to an organization that would violate my rights this way. DMCA, and other legislation was general and incompetent. Taking money from people for personal listening goes beyond suing the Girl Scouts for singing "America the Beautiful". This is personal. Fuck you RIAA.

  • Who's the Rat? (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by Silver222 ( 452093 )
    Sounds just like the BSA. "Tipped" off by an email...people who do shit like that deserve buckets of spam and power outages for the rest of their lives. Didn't people get told when they were young that no one like a tattletale?
    • Re:Who's the Rat? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <slashdot@monkelectric . c om> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:47PM (#3313557)
      This happened to a friend of mines company ... This guy *installed* pirate software himself on alot of the machines in the office, when he got fired he called the BSA and reported the software *he* had installed. BSA blackmailed the company for 150,000$, they went bankrupt 6 mos later ... (they were headed for bankrupcy regardless, but the BSA signed their death warrant).
  • Bloody typical (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lurgen ( 563428 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:33PM (#3313466) Journal
    Another perfect example of the record labels just wanting to suck more money out of us. If we brought our original CD's in, stuck them in a CD tower, and played them at work, that'd be legal, but using something slightly more advanced to store the music (like MP3 files) is considered illegal....

    One of these days, the record companies are going to find themselves out of a job - artists will realise how useless the labels actually are, recording equipment will become too cheap for the record companies to justify their (huge) slice of the revenue, and we will finally see the end of this rubbish.
    • by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:46PM (#3313552) Homepage
      If you brought your original CDs into your workplace and played them on your company's equipment, that'd count as a public performance, and would also be technically illegal. Sad but true.
      • by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:58PM (#3313634) Homepage
        It seems to be one of those grey areas. If I play a CD I purchased at home with some friends over, does that constitute a 'public performance'? Should I have to pay (even) more for a CD because my friends didn't technically purchase a license to listen to the music? How many people have to hear it to be considered a 'public performance'? Do we actually have any rights at all?

        • Should I have to pay (even) more for a CD because my friends didn't technically purchase a license to listen to the music?

          According to the xxAA, yes. Feel free to replace "xx" with "RI" and you have the music mafia. Or replace "xx" with "MP" and "music" with "movie" and you have the movie mafia. Either way, the answer stays the same. DIVX (not the codec) was the MPAA's dream. Pay for the movie every time you watch it. If you want to watch it at a friend's place, pay for it again. If you want to watch it upstairs, pay for it again.

          The RIAA is trying to do that exact same thing with music. I hope that it will fail as badly and that someone (anyone) pimp slaps some sense into them. If not, I'll switch to classical music. I'll have an easier time adjusting my taste in music than adjusting to the "pay-to-play" model the xxAA is trying to force down our throats.
        • What if the neighbors turn up their stereo so loud that the whole appartment block can hear it? Can tenants who want some sleep now get revenge by sicking the RIAA on to the disturbers ;-)
      • by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:55PM (#3313915) Homepage
        To follow up on the replies -- if the company owns the equipment a song is being played on, and other employees are listening in, it's considered a public performance. It's also technically illegal for a company to have a radio playing for the employees or the customers to listen. When those listening with you are your friends in a social atmosphere it's different; but a workplace or commercial establishment is considered a public venue.

        The hills are alive, with the sound of MUZAK. :-P
        • The radio example came up a number of years ago in Australia. Most commercial radio stations got all thing about it and started prosecuting the local hairdresser's. From memory, one radio station declared that it encouraged people to tune into it at work and turn it up for everyone to hear. That soon put everything in perspective.
          • The law seems to be different in Australia. It's not the radio station who prosecutes; most radio stations would love to be played in public places. It's that much more exposure their advertising and their station gets. But the stations' licenses are for private use only, and if it's played in a public place without special arrangements, the record labels get huffy.

            That's why companies like Muzak have sprung up, with public performance licensing. Even MP3.com has gotten into the act, with audio streams meant for business use -- and the service is NOT free.
        • Over here in Australia, you must pay a licence fee [apra.com.au] to APRA if you have a radio playing in your store.

          The list of conditions is pretty exhaustive, I half expect to see a fee schedule for "humming tune whilst walking down public street" or, "singing whilst engaged in aqueous hygene activities".

          Xix.

  • messages sent: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by drDugan ( 219551 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:35PM (#3313476) Homepage

    """
    This sends a clear message that there are
    consequences if companies allow their resources
    to further copyright infringement,'' said
    Matt Oppenheim, RIAA Senior Vice President,
    Business and Legal Affairs.
    """


    The message I heard:

    Large, money-laden industry group can use a
    broken legal system to easily take even more
    money from others by leveraging antiquated
    and ridiculous idea-ownership laws that need
    sorely to be changed.


    • Re:messages sent: (Score:4, Informative)

      by Wintersmute ( 557244 ) <Isaacwinter.hotmail@com> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:47PM (#3313554) Homepage
      I'll be the first one to line up against the heavy-handed tactics of the RIAA, but I think we should pick our battles, folks. Does anyone complain when the local sports bar licenses pay-per-view broadcasts, or when the proverbial dance hall pays licensing fees for music?

      Yet here, its not even clear that anyone actually bought the damn CDs in the first place. We've reached a point where we're so aggravated about the stranglehold that Hollywood and the labels have that at first utterance of mp3 we're spouting the same old 'information-wants-to-be-free' rhetoric.

      Those "antiquated" ideas of copyright ownership were a contract between creators and the public that worked since the Statute of Anne. Calling them "antiquated" just plays into the hands of the content-producers who would just as happily grind us inexorably toward pay-per-use purgatory.

      Copyright worked. The DMCA doesn't. Confusing the two is like confusing pedophilia with Catholicism.
  • It is one thing to press CD's of music and try to sell them as if you are the original publisher. However, it is something completely different to allow friends or coworkers to copy your CD's when no money is involved.

    Now, if IIS was offering access to the server to its customers as part of their service fees, then I can see how that would be a problem.

    Cryptnotic

  • If this was an internal server, how did the RIAA ever discovered its existance? I doubt the sysadmins were stupid enough to make the system visible from the Internet. And even if they were, they would have noticed the bandwidth usage :)
  • by shogun ( 657 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:37PM (#3313488)
    IIS apparently had a corporate MP3 repository on it's network

    Is this an undocumented feature of IIS 5.0? And is it a good enough reason to switch from apache?
  • Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gewalker ( 57809 ) <Gary DOT Walker AT AstraDigital DOT com> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:37PM (#3313500)
    I'm sure the RIAA considers this a major victory. How much of the million bucks will go to the artists? You know, the people they are trying to protect. This has got the be to most expensive CD duplicating machine I have ever heard of.

    I noticed that Integrated Information Systems had a dedicated server to serve up MP3's. Would the settlement reached $1M if it had just been some directories on NFS or Samba.

    This kind of stuff will scare the business community in a serious way. You can be sure the software police will be given new gestapo powers real soon in a corporation near you.

    Have to admit, IIS sounds very stupid in this. But $1M would buy a big stack of CD's (especially considering the discount you could get for volume)
    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dattaway ( 3088 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:06PM (#3313681) Homepage Journal
      The logic of this event smells as if it has been staged. Some of the owners or investors may have had relations with those of the RIAA. They don't tell us if the RIAA is also contracting them to do some work in a mutual relationship.

      For $1,000,000, a great many legal arguments could have been explored and may have helped the restrictive entertainment laws we have. Sounds like someone made a private win-win deal to me.

      So, as a result of this, its legal to listen to the radio at work, but illegal to play a rack of CD's. Fine with those laws? Uh huh... They were either without principle and spineless, or accepting a deal. No one caves in like that without taking a kickback.
  • they'll be sending lawyers to beaches and the countrysides and sue people who illegally share their music by not using headphones...

    seriously, what's the difference between this and having a stack of CD and connect a very powerful AMP to all the speakers in the company?

    is it illegal to share the music between your left and right ears?
  • I am sure that the Artists that were represented by the mp3 collection got the money! "Not Likely"

    Tomorrow's Headlines should read RIAA steals 1 million from Artists.
  • Uh, guys?

    This is *not* the same as making MP3's of all your CD's to listen to from your PC while you're at work. The only way this would have been "ok" would be if every single employee owned all of those CD's.

    I think the RIAA's policies stink, but in this case they had the right. Not liking them doesn't give you the right to steal from them.

    Bryan
    (who's going to do a scan of his networks tomorrow for MP3's to delete - if the users don't want me to find them they'd better stick them on the C: drive)

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:48PM (#3313562)
      Er.


      So what you're saying is that it's illegal for you and your spouse (or other live-in companion) to listen to the same CD? You both have to own a copy? Or that you can't lend a CD out to a friend and let them listen to it? Or plop it on a tape to have an alternate storage location? Or even lend that tape out to a friend?


      A lot of these activities which are now claimed to be illegal are permitted under the Home Audio Recording Act.

      • by EMIce ( 30092 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @10:46PM (#3314114) Homepage
        Yes it would be illegal if you and your spouse were listening to separate copies of the CD.

        If the server software limited connections so any particular album could only be played by one client at a time, then IIS may have been able to escape liability. Of course they would have had to buy all those CD's too, I'll assume they did.

        Think of the CD as a book, you can buy it and lend it out - thanks to those who fought the publishers earlier - but you can't lend out copies if more than one copy or any copy and the original will be used at the same time. If only one client were able to listen to any particular album at once, the company would have been in the clear. IANAL, but from my reading I believe this to be true.

        There are some additional problems I've thought of that arise from this - what if I were to rip a book into chapters, and lend them out individually? Would that be legal? I wouldn't think so. Based on my reasoning above, what if I were to allow different people to listen to different tracks, with no more than one person listening to a track at the same time? This sounds just as legal as ripping a book into chapters and lending those out. But now think of multiple people listening to the same track, but different parts of the track. User #1 could say be "borrowing" offset 0:32 of a track but will have returned it by the time User #2 gets to it. This raises some problems, I haven't seen it discussed so far though. Technically, it seems ok as long as the same part of a song isn't sent to two users at once, it would appear that two people can listen to the same track at once. The server could simply wait a second to begin additional streams, in the unlikely event the same song is called for by separate clients at the same exact time. Can someone clarify on this?
    • The only way this would have been "ok" would be if every single employee owned all of those CD's.

      Why?? If I bring a CD to work and play it, does every person who hears it have to own the CD? How is it different just because the music is on a server and not a CD?

  • by gkoo ( 189378 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:40PM (#3313506)

    This isn't all that different from what the various (c) organizations have been doing for some time. Most infamous was the 1996 effort by BMI/ASCAP to slap fines on the Girl Scouts for singing copyrighted songs around the fireplace -- an effort that backfired in terms of the PR (and led Congress to specifically exempt the Boy / Girl Scouts).

    (This article [gigalaw.com] at GigaLaw provides some useful background).

    I've heard IP attorneys compare these guys to the Mafia -- they basically go around extorting companies to pay them hush money and keep their attack dogs at bay. For large companies, the price of buying them off is cheaper than the price of hiring defense attorneys.

  • As much as we all detest the RIAA, in this case there doesn't seem to be any legal ground for the company to stand on. If it had an internal network where people could upload and download mp3's at a whim, then it's pretty obvious that they were breaking the law.

    Even us /.ers should be able to see that. But then again IANAL.

    Now I'll watch as my karma goes to -\infty
  • by Subliminal Fusion ( 253246 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:41PM (#3313518)
    What's really disturbing is that if you read the rest of the article, you'll see that the RIAA also got a settlement of $3.2 mil out of a company that was PRESSING and SELLING copyrighted CDs. They were making money off copyrighted stuff. The company wasn't selling the MP3s, they just had them on their server, and their settlement was $1mil?!
  • ...The MPAA has announced that they have collected $1 million from this company called IIS. It doesn't need to be true for them to make a press release. The MPAA obviously wants to discourage this kind of copying, and if they can use the media to get free advertising for their message, then they will.

    Lots of people will see this article and freak out. However, I believe that this strategy is going to backfire on them and they will look more out of touch with the relationship between technology and society than they already are.

    Cryptnotic

  • how big is enough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by maraist ( 68387 ) <michael.maraistN ... m.com minus poet> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:44PM (#3313533) Homepage
    I can see a company like IBM getting sued for sharing millions of songs amongst it's employees, but a small company (less than 15 people) that I know of used a simple non-published mp3 archive, where people had their own personal folders that they could bring music from home, so they could listen to it at work.

    Though not enforced, theoretically, the only use is to allow individual listening to their own music on a storage facility greater than that of their own computer. It was more cost effective to have one big large hard drive then have a dozen large hard drives (not to mention the company was SCSI, so it would have been an administrative nightmare to upgrade all the machines this way).. Not to mention that the individuals worked on several UNIX machines, and could easily mount their drives as necessary in the different labs.

    To make this legit, they could have restricted access to each mount, and thus no sharing would occur.. As I said, this wasn't enforced however.

    How can a networked computer be allowed to legally space-shift legitamit media without fear of the RIAA / SS?

    The real question here is that in a small company, does the RIAA really have jurisdiction. With a company that small, people would ahve lent each other CDs from time to time anyway (often duplicating onto cassette tapes, which has never been really refuted).

    Should such a company be worried? Or is the gistapo getting closer to getting it's power stripped?

    -Michael
  • by Seth Finkelstein ( 90154 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:45PM (#3313543) Homepage Journal
    If anyone wants it from the horse's, err, mouth, the RIAA has their PR for this on their website at

    http://www.riaa.com/PR_Story.cfm?id=505 [riaa.com]

    The RIAA's News [riaa.com] section is definitely worth a look, in a know-your-enemy sense.

    Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]

  • I recall a scene with the hobbled Enterpise-D is tilting towards re-entry in "Generations." The emotion-chipped Data says it best:

    Oh Shit.

    Now these people have means and precedent to do this to any corp where they can pay off someone to squeal.

  • by AmigaAvenger ( 210519 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:49PM (#3313568) Journal
    Last week, the RIAA sued Technicolor Inc., one of the largest manufacturers and distributors of music and video programming, for allegedly producing pirated CDs of major artists.

    Just a little interesting part of the article, the RIAA is stepping on some major dollars here by screwing with Hollywood's connections. Maybe they aren't working for the same goal after all....

  • Hearing TAX (Score:5, Funny)

    by uberkuba ( 554839 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:49PM (#3313573)
    If you were born with the unfortunate ability to hear sounds and thus music, you should.. no YOU MUST pay the record labels.
    During your life you might accidentally overhear music that you haven't paid for and thus rip off "the artists".

    Thus, the TAX will be an innitial fee on birth, based on your preliminary hearing tests. If found to have the ability to hear, you will be charged the TAX as an annual % of your income. Should you have no income within the first 10 years of your life, the record labels will render your hearing useless to stop your criminal activities...

    This should address all those MP3 and other music piracy problems at the source..
  • Can somebody here explain to me how what this company was doing is illegal, yet what libraries (public or private) do is legal?

    Just because a library is a public resource does not exempt it from copyright law. They facilitate [hell - they exist solely for the purpose of] sharing books, music, magazines, whatever. And I think it is important to note that this company was not selling copyrighted material - it was only allowing its employees to exchange music.

    So what is the distinction?
    • by glwtta ( 532858 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:02PM (#3313656) Homepage
      The biggest distinction (for the moment, at least) is that libraries mostly deal with non-digital, not easily duplicatable media (ie books), which you have to return to them. Nothing was preventing the IIS employees from taking a copy of the entire MP3 collection home (as I understand it).

      But you are right, libraries are irking the so called "media publishers" more and more, I think they just aren't feeling in a strong enough position to eliminate them - it's a big undertaking, might take some time, but will definitely help revenues.

    • They facilitate [hell - they exist solely for the purpose of] sharing books, music, magazines, whatever. And I think it is important to note that this company was not selling copyrighted material - it was only allowing its employees to exchange music.

      There's a big difference that you're missing. Libraries allow patrons to borrow copyrighted material on the condition that said material will be returned and not illegally copied. If libraries were like MP3 servers as you claim they are, they would have printing presses in them, and you would take whatever books you want to the operator and have them make you a copy of the book. They would also have CD replication stations so that you could make copies of their CD collection at will.
  • I know of at least one major research lab that developed an audio codec because a couple of researchers wanted to put on-line. They ended up putting several thousand CDs on a network server. (The audio codec was spun out as part of a startup, but ultimately failed because MP3 had become too popular.)

    Such RIAA actions send a chilling message to the world. It is hard to see how such non-profit-making activity as employees sharing music at work would constitute "piracy". But perhaps sending a chilling message is just what they want: if computer science professionals can't do anything interesting with media, then they won't have to deal with new developments like MP3 or Napster.

  • by Kraegar ( 565221 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:55PM (#3313618)
    I checked through my Boy Scouts of America handbook thoroughly, and I can't find anything in it about the RIAA or MP3's. Odd.
  • by Indras ( 515472 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:56PM (#3313620)
    This may be considered good news, if they continue this trend. Why? It's a whole lot better to attack people or businesses that are actually doing something illegal (though the legality of this is in question, the fact remains that they settled before it was taken to court, the law cannot stop that) than to attack KaZaA, Morpheus, Napster, Gnutella, etc. just for being tools that are capable of helping a person do something illegal.

    To me, this is like putting drunk drivers in jail for killing a person in an accident, instead of suing the crap out of Ford for making the car that has the potential to kill people if used incorrectly.
  • by linuxpng ( 314861 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:58PM (#3313631)
    So is this a fine or has it collected royalties? Are they then saying IIS can proceed and leave the songs on it's server? It sure sounds like the company paid for licenses to me.
  • by mmusn ( 567069 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @08:59PM (#3313640)
    IANAL, but as far as I can tell, it is still legal to have an MP3 jukebox in your home and let people use it there. Now, it would clearly be violation of current copyright law if a business played MP3s for customers (say, a restaurant). But if employees let friends and coworkers to their music over the network at work, what's the problem? Does the fact that this takes place at work all of a sudden make it commercial? It seems to me they went after IIS because they had deep pockets and caved in easily. I would have liked to see this play out in court. And we have to wonder what's next: is the RIAA going to raid our homes? Will we have to pay fees based on the number of people present when we play music?
  • dedicated (Score:4, Insightful)

    by glwtta ( 532858 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:19PM (#3313759) Homepage
    the article saliently mentions "dedicated" whenever it talks about the server - does that make a difference or something? IANAL so just curious.
  • by El Camino SS ( 264212 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:20PM (#3313765)

    So who was the employee that got so ticked off at the company that he ratted out his employer to the RIAA? Is there a bounty now on piracy?

    ...because you know that someone within the company had to tell them. Otherwise the RIAA would have to break in to the corporation to their private servers to even know that.

    Ka-Ching.
  • by musicmaker ( 30469 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:20PM (#3313770) Homepage
    This fine is preposterous.

    I worked for starcd which recognises music from the radio. We got a quote to buy every album that a song had been played from on the radio in the last five years five or more times. It was just over $100k.

    How can they possible justify a settlement of this size. This is the most unvelievable abuse the RIAA has demonstrated of it's corporate massivity. I have an mp3 repository, and I own every CD that I have a recording of. I would like someone to explain to me how this doesn't constitute fair use?

    I bet they only settled because RIAA is too large to fight. So much for the American justice system.
    -
  • by flacco ( 324089 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:24PM (#3313786)
    Is this really a "fair use" case? This goes beyond making a copy for a friend. The guy was taking music and distributing it fairly widely, with unrestricted random-access by a number of people, potentially depriving the copyright holder of sales.

    I do think the $1M figure is pretty much insane though.

    My beef with RIAA and MPAA is NOT with their opposition to Napster-ish music distribution; It's their repeated attempts to legislate mandatory crippling of consumer electronics (and outlawing of certain kinds of programming) to protect their interests at the expense of my rights.

    I would MUCH rather see RIAA taking the kind of action described in the story - going after actual "pirates" - instead of presuming before the fact that every consumer is a thief who cannot be trusted with uncrippled hardware.

  • by digitect ( 217483 ) <(digitect) (at) (dancingpaper.com)> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:29PM (#3313815)

    Just thought of a way around this.

    Let's say we set up an economy within our office. We buy and sell CDs on demand. At the beginning of the month, you bring in whatever CDs you want to sell. You deposit them into the office trust, where they're "converted" to a more economically liquid form, onto a digital hard drive.

    Now all we need is some simple software that "trades" CDs. Whenever you want to listen to one of the many volumes in the repository, you buy it on demand. You real-time trade one of the CDs you deposited in exchange for the ownership of the one you want to listen to.

    The only hitch is when multiple people want to buy a CD that no one wants to sell, or when no one wants to buy any of the CDs you brought in so that you don't have any purchasing/exchange power to buy any of the others.

    Obviously, in a small office, there's not a large enough "economy" to make this work, but for a 1,000 person corporation, it's unlikely that you'd ever have to wait more than a few minutes. Especially if everybody brought in enough CDs. The redundancy along would keep things rolling. Now what if it were multi-corporation?

    IANAL, but this seems like a perfectly legal brokerage-type method to share music without breaking the law.

  • by Mustang Matt ( 133426 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @09:32PM (#3313834)
    The funniest thing about this article from Reuters is that Reuters has a huge MP3 archive on their servers. I doubt many people know about it as they inherited it from Bridge Information Systems when they bought it. I know because I used to work there. Not that I was a contributor.
  • Disappointing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <`jason.nash' `at' `gmail.com'> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @10:05PM (#3313955)
    I'm rather disappointed in the postings on this....even from Slashdot. Assuming the article is correct, and I know that's a big assumption, this company basically sponsored piracy. They paid for a server specifically for music sharing. That's a "bad thing". There is a very big difference between someone bringing in MP3s and a company sponsoring the sharing of them. The company puts itself at VERY large risk for such things. I'm a network admin at a medium sized company and I don't even allow Gnutella/Napster/Kazaa clients to run...at all.

    This isn't fair use. They didn't let a friend borrow the CD. They ripped the CD and put the files on a server for everyone to get. Fair use may have a case should there have been software on the software to let a user "check out" a song and while it was checked out, no one else could access it. But I really don't think that was the case, do you?

    I've known companies that had MP3 servers, but they were always known by the users. They weren't ever really recognized by management. I bet many of those go away tomorrow morning when word of this gets out.
  • by PeekabooCaribou ( 544905 ) <slashdot@bwerp.net> on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @10:07PM (#3313960) Homepage Journal
    Not that I think this company should have been fined, but how much of this will the artists be getting?
  • by bstrahm ( 241685 ) on Tuesday April 09, 2002 @11:31PM (#3314302) Homepage
    There is a huge difference in my mind between
    1) An employee putting an MP3 on employer owned equipment
    2) An employee putting up a MP3 server without the employers knowledge
    3) An employer sponsoring and condoning the spread of MP3 music throughout their corprate network

    The first two are the employees problem, the third it is time to go after the employer.

    I worked at a company where it was a firing offense to put up a shared MP3 repository... They had rather deep pockets and didn't want anyone to get their grubby hands on it
    • by Tazzy531 ( 456079 ) on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @12:13AM (#3314425) Homepage
      I believe you are wrong on your analysis. IANAL. There was a ruling within the last couple of years saying that the employer is responsible for all things on the network.

      For example, if an employee were to forward around a racist joke. [Let's just say for this scenario it's about Green People]. A employee that is offended by the joke doesn't sue the people that is forwarding it, but rather the employer for creating a "unsafe" [I know that's not the right term..but there's another legal term] condition in the workplace. [Check Here for Other Related Situations [epolicyinstitute.com]]

      Scenario 2: If an employee installs a piece of software that the employer doesn't own the license to, the person that is responsible is the employer even if he is not aware of it. [Read More Here [epolicyinstitute.com]]

      Scenario 3: If a hacker sets up a warez site on one of your server, you are not technically liable, but the FBI can come in with an warrant and confiscate the server without giving you an opportunity backup all the data that you need from that server. [Operation Bandwidth [com.com]]

      Basically my point is this, the employer is ultimately responsible for all employees and equipment onsite. 1) If they are taking IP claims to all the work that you do on the office computers, they should also be liable for all the bad things that you do. 2) Ultimately, the employer owns all the equipment and must be actively enforcing the rules.
  • Libraries anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @12:31AM (#3314478)
    Is this any different? Would this company have still been sued if the local mp3 database had some sort of locking mechanism that only allowed songs to be played on one computer at a time? And regardless, how can they prove that more than one copy was played at a time, be it the original cd or the mp3 version or multiple instances of the mp3 version? Seems to me the RIAA had a weak case legally and the company for some reason figured it was better to just pay the bully and walk away without the bruises. Even with royalties paid for 'public performance' it should have been nowhere close to $1mil.

    As long as this isn't a hoax, the word really needs to get out about this.
  • Try a real company (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jonbrewer ( 11894 ) on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @12:42AM (#3314511) Homepage
    Dear RIAA lawyers,

    Next time try fucking around with a real company. You'll be laughed at if you ever go after an mp3 server in an engineering department at General Electric, or Chemistry lab at SmithKleinGlaxo. Real companies wouldn't give you the time of day, let alone answer your phone calls or sign for your registered letters. You're pathetic.

    Cheers,

    JB
  • by KMSelf ( 361 ) <karsten@linuxmafia.com> on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @04:06AM (#3315002) Homepage
    According to this Dow Jones article [nasdaq.com], IISX "incurred negative cash flow from operations for each of the three years ended Dec. 31, 2001, and had an accumulated deficit of $76.8 million through Dec. 31", and "might not continue as a going concern". Given the option between settling a $1m suit (which may be paid out at pennies on the dollar in a bankrupcy or liquidation settlement) vs. paying current cash for an extended legal defense, this may have been the easy way out. I suspect more to this story than meets the eye.

    Whichever is the real story, the RIAA has just handed the fair-use activists the small businesses of America as allies.

    Credits to David of Noisebox for pointing out the IISX finance picture.

  • by Webmoth ( 75878 ) on Wednesday April 10, 2002 @03:40PM (#3319194) Homepage
    SOMEWHERE IN A DUNGEON FAR BELOW RIAA HEADQUARTERS (AP)-- The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA [riaa.org]) today announced it is introducing a bill tin Congress making it illegal for artists who are not members of RIAA or associated with RIAA member-labels to record songs for public listening.

    The RIAA believes that such independent recording "unfairly and unnecessarily deprives" their lawyers, executives, and artists from future revenues. In an unrecorded telephone interview, Hilary B. Rosen [riaa.org], President and CEO of RIAA, said that "we believe our industry has a right to expect that our ideas for new compositions will not be stolen or usurped by some fool kid getting the idea first. Remember, Elisha Gray, an established expert in electronic media, was unfairly deprived of profits from the invention of the telephone simply because Alexander Graham Bell, an amateur, got to the patent office a few minutes sooner. It's foolish to think that someone without experience or affiliation with the recording industry could come up with a creatively written song and have the right to profit from it when it sells in the millions. It's unfair to RIAA members to expect them to sit back and idly watch the money fly past into the pockets of independent artists."

    When asked about the possibility of independent artists distributing their works through free channels such as KaZaa and independent websites, Rosen commented, "we have undercover agents who may be paying them a *cough* visit."

    Asked about future legislation that the RIAA may introduce, Rosen added, "we understand that some churches and other houses of worship sanction musical performances without demanding royalties. Accordingly, we are investigating this to make sure RIAA's rights and potential profits are not infringed in any way."

    EDITOR'S NOTE: The above interview was not recorded because the RIAA demandes that royalties be paid for all recorded telephone conversations, especially if they are encoded in mp3 format and distributed via the Internet.

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