Best Buy Backs CD Copy Impairment 410
borkus writes: "Chief Operating Officer Allen Lenzmeier of Best Buy, Co, owner of Best Buy Stores and Musicland said that his company would support industry efforts at copyright protection, though he didn't specify any particular technology. Although Best Buy stores sell MP3 players, CD-Burners and tape decks, they aquired Musicland in 2001. According to the article, the 10% decrease in music sales in 2001 was caused mostly by Internet file swapping. As a major retailer of both electronics AND music, Best Buy could have a huge impact on the future format of music player hardware as well as software."
Counter productive (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Counter productive (Score:3, Interesting)
There's nothing interesting on the radio. I live on the ass end of nowhere with no local artists or concerts of things I like, and all my friends listen to is rap. No exposure to anything good except via the internet.
If the mainstream focusses too narrowly, the industry is going to lose EVERYONE who isn't totally fixated on the few most popular bands, and aren't in a position that they're finding anything that appeals to them.
Taking away our tools (a CDR drive is NOT a toy), is not going to solve their problem. Putting the parts of the business into fewer hands isn't going to help anything. It'll probably just hurt, because the entire industry is expendable.
Feh... (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably not.
This is a supply/demand issue. It's quite possible that the listening audience demand has dropped because the supply is drek.
Re:Feh... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Feh... (Score:5, Insightful)
There's always been shitty music that only teenagers like. "Bubblegum pop" is not a new phenomenon. Hell, don't you remember New Kids on the Block?
The reason demand is down is because the economy is down. It's Occam's freakin' razor.
Re:Feh... (Score:2)
The problem with this arguement is that this is all there is now. Back when NKOTB was the big thing, there was new kids, and there was... well... nothing. Now, all there is is bubblegum pop. It's not like the industry's one leading act is bad pop, the entire industry is bad pop.
But I do agree with the economy being down as a principle cause of the drop in demand. I just also think that to raise demand they should focus more on the quality of their product.
~z
Re:Feh... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are two main reasons why CD sales have fallen in the past year: the slow economy, which has hurt sales of many other things besides Backstreet Britney CD's, and the fact that the "Next Big Thing" or "killer app" in the music industry hasn't revealed itself yet.
It seems that this is the first time in 50 years that no replacement currently exists for a tiring music phenomenon. Since rock 'n roll came of age in the 1950's, it seems like there was always something ready to take the place of acts and genres that were losing their appeal. Motown and other genres of the early 60's replaced the first generation of major rock stars. Then Beatlemania took over. When the Beatles were on their way to breaking up, so-called classic rock acts took their place in the late 60's and the early to mid 70's. Then there was disco, followed by punk rock, then the pop revolution led by Madonna and Michael Jackson, then teen sensations like Debbie Gibson and the New Kids on the Block in the late 80's, grungers like Pearl Jam and Nirvana in the early to mid 90's, followed by Teen Sensations Part Deux starring 'NSync and Britney Spears. Of course this isn't a comprehensive history of popular music; there are certainly been stars outside of the genres I mentioned that have sold millions of copies of their acts. But I do think the ones I have listed are enough to illustrate the fact that the music industry's demand machine has been running essentially non-stop for half a century. Until now, where for some reason it has temporarily stopped. However, soon enough the industry will figure out what's broken, fix it, and then get it running again.
Ten years ago, the industry was complaining about dual tape decks and DAT as major threats to the viability of the labels. They got some concessions from Congress and the DAT manufacturers, such as collecting taxes on recordable media to offset the effects of piracy and ensuring that digital tapes could be recorded at most to one additional copy before both the original and new copy could not be used as masters for a second-generation copy. Then the economy turned around, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" gave them a new way of milking money from the masses, and everything was all good again. I believe the same situation will occur again in the next year or two. Something new will become wildly popular, and the industry's wolf cry will suddenly become a lot fainter once the cash starts returning in droves.
Actually, it *is* the sharing programs (Score:3, Interesting)
Back when there were just a handful of channels, it was easy to trace the history of television through the major trends. People had nothing else to watch, so it was easy for something to dominate. Then, with cable and eventually satellite, people had dozens, even hundreds of choices. Suddenly, the major channels could no longer define television culture with major trend starting programs.
The major television stations are still running just fine, but they no longer control the world of television.
Similarly, the filesharing culture now allows people to easily find obscure music. With more things to choose from, less people listen to the biggest thing.
The music industry isn't waiting around for the next big thing. It never has. It used to *make* the next big thing. Right now, it's trying very hard to make another big thing, and failing miserably.
mlylecarlin
Re:Feh... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Feh... (Score:2)
STOP THE PRESSES: You mean music tastes move in cycles? Say it isn't so! I was so damn sure that all music was crap before my formative years, was brilliant during my formative years, then because crap again once I grew up.
That songwriter written, star producer, studio manufactured, pretty boy/girl sung stuff nSync and Ms. Spears puts out is downright crap, while the songwriter written, start produced, studio manufactured, pretty boy/girl sung Wall of Sound goodness of the Philles Stable (The Ronnetts, The Crystals, Gene Pitney...) is classic man. CLASSIC.
Re:Feh... (Score:2, Interesting)
If there was an official site where I could legally download professionally made MP3 or OGGs of all of my favorite tracks for two bucks a pop, I would be all over it in a second. Maybe the next generation of music executive will figure out what I want. Until then, fuck 'em!
Re:Feh... (Score:3, Insightful)
So, yes, of *course* there's been a decline in sales: there are fewer buyers. And there are especially fewer buyers of the crap pop that BS and her ilk have been pumping out.
Re:Feh... (Score:5, Funny)
(The bad jokes just don't stop, hoooooooo)
Not because of Musicland acquisition (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not because of Musicland acquisition (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not because of Musicland acquisition (Score:2)
~z
Re:Not because of Musicland acquisition (Score:5, Interesting)
At the same time they bought us, they bought two other companies whose names elude me (one was a dealer in ultra-high-tech home stereo systems). Neither of these were direct competitors with Best Buy (they didn't/don't offer stereo equipment on the level that the company they purchased does).
So they weren't really acquiring solely based on competition, but I imagine that was a part of it. Probably off topic, but just a bit of insight .
HERE's a REPLY (Score:5, Informative)
"Thank you for contacting Best Buy about copy protected CDs. I'm Val with
Customer Care.
We apologize for any disappointment caused by copy protection. Copy
protection is a decision made by the label to protect them and their artists
from copyright violation. We encourage you to contact the label directly if
you would like to offer opinions about this practice.
Thank you for sharing your comments with Best Buy. Please don't hesitate to
contact us with any questions or concerns.
Best wishes from Best Buy,
Val and the Customer Care Team
TRACKING NUMBER: A00000970333-00003433404
"
BLAH BLAH BLAH. Decision 'by the labels' huh? It's very different if the labels are trying to push it vs. the labels pushing it AND you helping them. Sorry BB, you've sunk even lower....
Re:HERE's a REPLY (Score:3, Funny)
A 10% drop?!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Geez... Instead of assuming that the loses are because of us evil consumers, they should look at the feeble economy. People who are scared they might not have jobs (or actually don't have jobs) usually don't run right out and get the latest treasures from N'Sync and Britney. Survival is more of a concern.
I guess its Bye Bye Be(a)st Buy.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I guess its Bye Bye Be(a)st Buy.. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is exactly what they are trying to do. By making it difficult to copy individual cd's they are trying to make it easier to paint those who have digital copies as criminals. Right now it is very difficult to point the finger. The more difficult something illegal is to do, the easier it is to point the finger. For example evaluate these statements:
1. "Here's a copied DVD of the Matrix"
2. "Here's a DVD of Episode II"
3. "Here's a copy of John Tesh's latest"
I bet in general people think that 2 is the most serious and 3 is the least.
-Sean
Re:I guess its Bye Bye Be(a)st Buy.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:They do treat people like criminals (Score:2)
Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
correlation is NOT causation! (Score:3, Insightful)
This reminds me of a hilarious study I read about in college... Several pigeons were put into identical boxes that would spit out a food pellet once every minute. Within a few minutes one pigeon was hopping up and down constantly, the second was continually spinning, and another wouldn't stop bobbing his head... It turns out that they were assuming that whatever action they were doing when the food first was dispensed was causing the food to be released, so they would continue to do it indefinitely to keep the food coming! If A is happening, then it MUST be a result of B....
so... yeah... um.. it must be the file trading!
Re:correlation is NOT causation! (Score:3, Insightful)
However, if they blame their sagging sales on file trading and say copy protection is the answer (which we all know it isn't), then they can be perceived as 'pro-active' in the eyes of their shareholders.
Even if you can't do anything about the problem, it's better to look busy. Throwing up your hands and saying 'the economy sucks' may not be acceptable to these guys.
Ahh, the retail sector's perspective (Score:3)
No surpise, really, considering that Best Buy and the RIAA are both on the retail side of things. What I find interesting is that both sectors care little for the artist or the listener... boiling down their influence on music to making it shiny and flashy.
Sooner or later, musicians and audiophiles will have enough technology to bypass all this ridulousness. Let's just hope it doesn't end up being illegal for me to buy listening rights to a song directly from whoever wrote and recorded it!
MORE BULLSHIT ON CD SALES (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets also put this into context. How many people are on GNUtella or Kazza? Well, on GNUtella it is hard to tell due to how the system works, but I wouldn't be suprised if it was in the 50,000 - 100,000 range. KaZaA is probably at a similar level. How many people out there listen to CDs they buy legitimately? I am sure there are more people with legit CDs than those who have burned MP3s or OGG Vorbis files on to CD-ROMS.
Utter bullshit.
Re:MORE BULLSHIT ON CD SALES (Score:2)
Whoa... you're missing at least an order of magnitude there. On KaZaA (stripped of the spyware, of course.
I agree with your reasoning re: the economy, but the marketroids probably thought it too expensive to actually do research into the matter... plus, it provides "proof" (haha) that P2P is evil, hence securing such legislation as the DMCA and SSSCA (or whatever it's called this week).
- Jester
So the 14% increase LAST year... (Score:5, Funny)
Right?
Right?
oh no no no, that was brilliant marketing on the part of RIAA and besides it would've been... uh...28% growth, yeah, 30% even if it hadn't been for those EVIL CHEATING INTERNET PIRACY SCUM who are STEALING money away from these poor starving artsts they represent!
Courtney Love: I want the money you owe me!
RIAA: Shut up! Oh Mr. Clintttooonnnnn... would you mind signing this bill into law that says musicians are really contractors to us and don't really deserve any money for their creations except for an hourly wage, but extend copyright law so we can sell the same disc at 1500% mark-up for 100 years? Thaaanksss... Oh, here's some money for your wife's campaign...
You hold the power not Best Buy... (Score:2)
I was going to buy some CDs today. I usually shop at Best Buy. Now I wouldn't be going to Best Buy even if they have the best price. I want value for my purchasing dollar. Limiting my future choices is not value. I didn't buy an iPod to have Best Buy dictate how I use it in the future.
Don't let companies pull this garbage. Don't buy from them. Best Buy just screwed themselves permanently with me. It will be very hard for them to dictate to customers if they don't have any.
Re:You hold the power not Best Buy... (Score:4, Interesting)
Extend the concept a bit, and you could allow users to create a profile where they track who they specifically are boycotting. Then every so often, the website could email that companys' marketing department and say:
"Dear Best Buy:
Your policy of supporting the RIAA has resulted in xxxx consumers boycotting your store. blah blah blah"
and then attach any personal "messages" from the consumers in the boycott...
Man, what a cool way to make a difference. I wish I had the time.
in no way affected by the recession... (Score:2)
Which was in no way affected by the recession we're still seeing in many states. The reason why they only dropped 10% is because of internet advertizement.
Re:in no way affected by the recession... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:in no way affected by the recession... (Score:2)
Product description (Score:3)
Re:Product description (Score:2, Insightful)
Fair use isn't a law; it's a defence. At best, you could say that it's a principle.
Sales dropping because of file swapping? Please. (Score:2, Informative)
Regardless of that, I think the main issue is you can only recycle things so many times before it deteriorates into nothing. Go buy an original VHS tape, copy it, then copy that copy, and then copy it one or two more times for good measure. It'll be so warped by then it's a waste of a tape.
Same thing with this music. Notice that sales for Britney Spears' new album are much lower than her previous efforts. Why? Not because 14 year old girls are pirating it, but because if you've got 1, you've got them all, fundamentally.
Perhaps people are just sick and tired of 20 year old musicians singing about love and relationships(pop), who has the most expensive car and who's the biggest "playa" (rap), being angry for the sake of being angry (nu-metal), and claiming to be unique when everyone dresses the same with let's say, a red baseball hat on backwards (rock).
Perhaps sales are diminished not because of new technologies, but because of lack of creativity. The entertainment industry is in such a horrible state and has been stagnating as such. It's just bad timing for technology that as movies and music gets worse, technology progresses at the same fashion, leaving a perfect scapegoat to use as an excuse to wonder why the public is buying the excrement they dish out.
Let 'em know what you think. (Score:3, Insightful)
The cat is already out of the bag... (Score:5, Funny)
tar zxvf bag.tar.gz ; cd bag ; mv $feline
Everything worth getting is already available in MP3 format..And nothing thats currently being put out by the recording industry is worth listening to. It would be a far easier endeavor for the industry to understand and deal with the past two sentences than it would be to write endless piles of additional legislation and licensing agreements.
Cheers,
Re:The cat is already out of the bag... (Score:2)
Arguably, this was already valid 10 years ago (many would say even 20-25, but I'm not that drastic). Don't buy crap at ever increasing price.
Re:The cat is already out of the bag... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's because people tend to equate "what's good" with what they grew up with. Music today is no better or worse than music 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or 200 years ago. Its just different.
WRITE THEM!!! (Score:3)
It'll make much more of an impact.
Did anyone ever consider... (Score:2, Insightful)
Give me what I want, not what YOU think I do... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is no doubt in my mind that mp3's are destroying potential CD sales.
There is also no doubt in my mind that the RIAA is fighting the mp3 threat in the wrong way. They are hurting people that buy CDs! They are tartgeting their own customers! Rather than fighting the format, or better yet, positioning themselves to control the format they actually think that CD sales will improve with more restrictive CDs.
Its hilarious.
The VPs and Money-mongers are so wildly out of touch with their customers that they are willing to cripple their own product to control the situation.
How about monthly mp3 download subscriptions? I'd pay $10 a month to get a mp3 version of new releases as they happen.
How about cheaper CDs. $9 with more content. Better yet, include the mp3's on the CD itself. Or treat the CD as a license to download the mp3 version... no ripping/searching required.
How about a website where I can create my own CD complitation and have it mailed to me... or download the
How about some friggin creativity...
The RIAA and the music industry is sitting on a vast pile of money-potential and THEY DON'T EVEN SEE IT. They are so stuck "in the box" that they can't imagine that there is any other way of capitalizing on their investments.
I hope that someone in the "industry" wakes up and smells the cash. I'm willing to fork over a ton of $$ to get music, I simply don't want $15 CDs anymore. They're bulky, prone to scratches and a poor "investment" for my entertainment dollar. Give me access to clean, high-bitrate mp3's (no crippleware, special players, ads, and other BS) and I'll for over serious cash.
Re:Give me what I want, not what YOU think I do... (Score:5, Interesting)
Nobody wants to offer this service because the record companies make more money doing what they do now: namely, packaging one or two hit songs onto an $18 disc and convincing consumers to buy two or more per month. Do the math and you'll see why they don't like the idea of a $10 or even $20 subscription-- at least, one that gives you a large number of new releases that don't expire.
The problem is, for them to make money selling CDs online, they'd have to charge much higher prices than what you propose, just to keep their revenue flat. People don't want to pay what the record companies would have to charge, especially with all of the free alternatives out there.
What we're seeing is a classic example of executive punting. Whether they realize it or not, the label executives have put their business on a course of nearly guaranteed disaster. Their customers will hate them, those affected by draconian copyright legislation will hate them, and in the end it will all fail. However, no executive wants to be the guy who embraced online music at a reasonable price, and consequently reduced earnings by 30-50% over the golden-goose CD model. They'd never work again. (I've heard various industry professionals acknowledge the gist of this argument in private, though few yet acknowledge the contention that sharing-prevention efforts are doomed to failure.)
In other words, any exec who does the long-term intelligent thing for the industry, namely putting its long-term survival over short-term profits, would be destroying his or her career. So it won't happen, and the idiots will get high-paying jobs elsewhere while the recording industry suffers the fallout of those short-sighted decisions.
Re:Give me what I want, not what YOU think I do... (Score:2)
Nobody wants to offer this service because the record companies make more money doing what they do now: namely, packaging one or two hit songs onto an $18 disc and convincing consumers to buy two or more per month.
People who currently get mp3's for free aren't buying CDs. People who buy CDs probably aren't going to stop. If the Industry would offer a for-pay mp3 service they could (possibly) pull some of the free mp3 people over to the paying side.
I know that I would. If I could go to a website, log in and download a zip file of an entire album... in a pure, player-agnostic format I would gladly pay for it. The time/energy saved and the quality and consistency of the mp3s (normalized, etc) would be incentive to pay a price.
Sure, I could theoretically give all of those to my friends, etc. etc. Piracy would not be reduced. BUT they'd have my payment and they'd know that I'd pay again. Bottom line is that they'd make more money than they do now.
Unless, of course, I'm the only one who is willing to pay a reasonable price for online music.
Sales 10% off? (Score:2)
Re:Sales 10% off? (Score:2)
Recession? Not according to any real economic data. The technical definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of declining GDP. Didn't happen. The economy actually grew by 2% last year.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.
How benevolent of them. (Score:2)
We've already been antagonized, and in us they have an adversary for the rest of their grasping, niggardly lives.
Thank you very much, jackasses, for not referring to us as "consumers."
Best Buy running scared? (Score:5, Insightful)
Online downloads, legal and pirated alike, ruin that business model, so Best Buy naturally feels that it's in their best interests to oppose anything that lets you acquire music on a non-physical medium.
It seems unlikely that there's room for a middleman like Best Buy in online distribution of music. If you were able to purchase and download music direcly from an artist's or label's website, why would you want to pay Best Buy extra money on top of that? Best Buy probably feels they have a lot more to lose than the record companies do.
Re:Best Buy running scared? (Score:2)
It may well be that Best Buy is getting favorable treatment from RIAA members on distribution because by doing so, the RIAA has effectively coopted a major distributor of devices used to make digital music work (MP3 players, Computers, CDR media).
Not unlike Sony is both a primary manufacturer of devices and also a prominent RIAA member.
CD Sales Volume vs. Average Cost of CD (Score:2)
According to the article, the 10% decrease in music sales in 2001 was caused mostly by Internet file swapping.
Interesting...just yesterday, my friend George Scriban posted a piece on his (for lack of a better phrase) obsessively Big Content focused blog [scriban.com] that, among other things, charts CD unit sales against average per-unit price. His data indicates that CD sales slow during periods when per-unit price increases...periods such as the year 2001, when the average price of a CD increased by about 62 cents.
He doesn't indicate the specific source for his data (I don't think he does, anyway), and I haven't gotten around to asking him yet. If he sees his server load getting out of hand, he may check to see what's going on, find this reference, and post some more information on the topic... =)
For your daily dose of irony, note also that George correlates the most dramatic increase in volume of CD sales to "cut-throat price competition" involving discount retailers such as Best Buy.
article edit (Score:2)
Fuck 'em (Score:2)
I live in a town where there are half a dozen good alternatives to Best Buy. If they think I'm a pirate, they don't deserve my money.
Boycott.
Two False Assumptions (Score:5, Interesting)
- The decline in sales has nothing to do with the content being produced by the music industry.
Sorry, try again. Many, many people who download songs end up buying the albums, however there is a severe lack of anything new or remotely innovative in popular music, right now. Record companies are STILL placing all their bets on Teen Pop, Metal, Rap and a stunning number of bands who have decided to get Eddie Vedder impersonators as their vocalists. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but really, the catagories I mentioned are the sum total of 99.9% of the music industry right now.
If people don't buy CDs, the record company mentality goes, it must be because of something wrong with the customer. They are unwilling to admit that they have alltogether tightened the reigns on the industry to the point where it is being choked. Radio playlists across the country are exactly the same, paid for by corprate moolah (indirectly, of course) and some DJs are not even permitted to play ANY songs of their own choosinig.
MTV has descended to the point where you get one, single video show per day and that's it. (if you are lucky)
TRL is a pressure cooker for sales. Videos are premiered on the show and since that is for many the only exposure to videos they have, they simply vote for the video they have been spoonfed. The result is a never-changing block of videos that are fed to the masses in a trickle so the minimum amount of variety can be used to gain the maximum amount of exposure for an "artist". This extremly tightly focused enviornment is used to force an artist on as many impressionable people as once, and give them few other musical options.
Now, for the second false assumption:
- That BestBuy, and any company that supports such measures will ever receive my business again.
I've spent thousands upon thousands at particular stores or products by particualr companies over many years. However, their business practices mean that my disposible income will cease to flow into their cash registers.
And I'm not alone.
The music industry has shown their utter contempt for me and I see no reason to give them a dime of my money any longer. I would like to support the artists I like, but even buying a CD now means risking buying crippled media. It doesn't matter WHY I would want to use a non-copy prevented CD, I'm sure it would surprise them that I would be doing nothing remotely illegal, just keeping one CD in the car and a couple of MP3s in my playlist.
But they don't care, and therefore, neither do I.
There are countless others like me now, and there are more all the time. I really hope the record industry likes what they've done.
You reap what you sow, and believe me, the record company better count it's blessings that a 10% drop in sales is all they have to deal with right now.
It's going to get much worse, and their strong-arm tactics are the only reason why.
Re:Two False Assumptions (Score:4, Funny)
Actually, my mp3 collection is still intact, so no one is stealing anything. Looking at the bandwith monitor I see that there's a lot of copying.
Trash, the economy, and growing up (Score:4, Interesting)
As an avid music fan who lives effectively between the US and Europe, let me put my two cents in.
I think there are numerous factors going into this. Does illegal copying affect sales? Sure! I have friends who think that it's perfectly ok to go hunt after music online because they can't find in a store here in Finland. Or better yet, one person will have the original and the rest will copy it. I rant and rave about IP laws, and get stared at.
On the other hand, I've noticed that a LOT of people upon reaching their 20's just couldn't care less about downloading the music. Most of the people I see downloading now are those teen pop trash fans. So that is probably hurting sales to some degree.
However, I'm the kind of person who is perfectly willing to buy good music. I'll buy good releases, but I won't rush to get them the instant they come out. The problem for me is being aware of what's good out there. There's too much hype about the latest teen sensations and no enough real coverage of good music.
Conscientiously, I've decided to not necessarily rush out and buy big-label records. I'll often get them used. I will buy small-label records at retail, as they're less likely to abuse artists.
Lastly, hey, the future ain't looking as bright as in the middle of the dot-com bubble. I incurred plenty of debt then and so did a lot of other people. With the joys of interest and shaky jobs, I reckon that quite a few others are working hard to pay of debts quickly and save some money for the anticipated 'rainy day'.
Suggestion for recording industry? Put something worthwhile in the CDs for the kiddies who download all the time so they might buy that bubble-gum pop crap, and find some quality artists that you don't abuse and let them get some press coverage.
Re:Trash, the economy, and growing up (Score:2)
So, are there any suggestions as to how to going about reorganising the music industry?
I see the same thing happening in several other industries. While I realise that people in many different media and tech industries will lose jobs, the people who find a new model to last the next 20 years will at least make life semi-stable for some.
I'm personally getting involved in metadata projects to try to find a way through this, a way that supports artists, license holders, and the consumers. I'm also looking at joining intellectul property law groups to look at good (i.e. sensible) legal proposals.
Or maybe... (Score:2)
decline in music quality over the past few years?
Come on, I'm getting tired of all these
one-hit boy bands and 16 year-old pop stars.
Give me something worth buying, and I will.
Re:Or maybe... (Score:2)
Come on, I'm getting tired of all these one-hit boy bands and 16 year-old pop stars. Give me something worth buying, and I will.
Sentiments like the above floor me time and again. "Give" you something? Is that the sort of relationship you want with the music to which you (eventually) listen? If all you see (and, judging from your comments, know) are one-hit, underage acts, you're not really rummaging around much. Since when has music appealing to your (or my, or anyone's) own tastes been something that appears from on high, without fail, in the absence of active interest and searching?
10% drop due to piracy? (Score:2, Informative)
Good glub, do any of these idiots understand we were in a recession, and the *entire* economy was in the pits? That CDs are a highly discretionary item, far down the list from things such as food and rent?
A 10% dip sounds like their business did really well, in comparison to other areas of the economy -- I'm sure companies such as Cisco and JDS Uniphase would be deliriously happy had their sales for last year only dropped 10%.
Re:10% drop due to piracy? (Score:3)
I hate to say this because a lot of people on this site have such strong feelings about CD music, but the fact is that the overall economy was up 2% last year. Strictly speaking, by all traditional economic measures the economy did not experience a recession (2 consecutive quarters of negative growth), Sure, some segments of the economy were hit by the bursting of the internet bubble, but the fact is that a 10% decline in CD music sales cannot easily be explained by whatever was happening in the overall economy.
Maybe it was actually, in fact, due to piracy.
Would you mind telling that to the millions of people that are still laid off. How about the even more that have had to tighten thier belts? I don't know about you, but a bad economy is a scary thing, and is a threat to our continued (comfortable) existance. People tend to pinch pennies real quick when their livelihood is threatened. The economy didn't affect me much because I am already poor, and I only make 8 bucks an hour anyway. But I watched a lot of daddies get laid off from their factory job, with no other alternatives. Do you think those daddies bought little Susie that latest Britney Spears CD? Not likely. Now multiply that 19.00 loss of sale times a few million. Lets forget its an artificial loss. If CD prices were lower they wouldn't be losing as much money, would they? I can tell you there are way more people affected by the economic downturn than there are pirates. If not, then there is a good percentage of the US population that lives against the law. Maybe the law of the people should be revised, then?
Let me see then, then are there so many citizens that are pirates? There are a few other companies that tried to blame thier losses on things other than the economic downturn. But, on the other hand, there are also companies that blames thier mysterious loss of money on the economy when it wasn't so. Who knows. I don't give a rip. I'm not dependant enough on the RIAA to much care. However, I do care when they get legislation passed that erodes my rights as a born citizen of the United States of America, the greatest "free" nation in the world. Are these bought policitians so unpatriotic that they would go against the very philosophy that every true patriot of this nation holds dear?
What I rather care more about is the government truly showing the strong arm of the people, and preventing this stupid bullshit from happening. Way back in simpler times, rich men ruled. If they got too out of hand, or inflicted too much cruelty on his countrymen, he either went nuts or someone killed him. Then life resumed as normal, and the people never knew how much better off they were for it. Today these rich men are replaced by big business, but like the Hydra of myth, it can't be so easily defeated with a shot to the head. Its unfortunate that times have changed so much that it would even be necessary to regulate businesses through legislation, but I fear this is the logical and necessary action in order to protect the liberty and well-being of the People. Yes, remember, "We the People, in order to form a more perfect union
Sorry, forgot to turn the rant tag on for this one, but it really frustrates me that my own countrymen cannot grasp the fact that the government and big business are in bed together, but there is something that can be done about it. Get the crooked politicians out of Washington, get more involved in your local governments, and remember to vote with your own wallet when it comes to consumer products and services. Tax the hell out of companies for doing naughty things. Increase the tax a certain percentage everytime they get caught doing something naughty. Shut down companies that don't pay thier taxes. That way, even if they are successful at pushing a product, they still have to give a chunk of that money back to the people. Bad businesses would tend to just flop over and die sooner or later, or deal with having less cash flow. Either way, it'd make 'em more honest.
Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the fact (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Much of the copying the RIAA complains about is completely legal under the Home Recording Act. As such, it isn't piracy at all.
2. It is amazing that the record industry seems to think it has a right to be immune to the economy. 2001 was a year of massive layoffs and dot.com implosion. IT workers, people who ordinarily have the kind of discretionary income to support large CD collections were especially hard-hit.
3. Napster, the largest and most visible source for swapped files spent much of 2001 under an injunction that severely hobbled it. If anything, 2001 should have brought less so-called piracy than 2000.
4. C'mon now. Weren't boy bands and teeny-girls starting to grow a little stale in 2001? To generate sales, you gotta deliver product worth buying.
But, the biggest kicker of all:
2. The RIAA very politely posts sales figures for the last ten years on its web site. Some interesting nuggets:
Total CD volume in 2000 (a year with Napster in full force, by the way) were the highest level in history and nearly 3 times the level of 1991.
However, from 1991-2000, sales of cassettes dropped off about 80%,
Sales of vinyl LPs continued their slide into oblivion, at about 45% of the 1991 levels.
Sales of CDs increased every single year except for 1997, covering all of the years in which Napster was unencumbered by injunctions. Sales rebounded to record high levels in 1998, by the way, hitting new records in 1999 and 2000.
One more thing: 2001 mid-year volume, in a recession, was 397.9 units. That may be 22.7 units lower than the same period in 2000, but it is 1.1 units higher than in 1999. In fact, those recession-year statistics represent the SECOND HIGHEST volume from 1991 to the present.
I'll bet a lot of businesses would have been thrilled to book their second-best year in history during 2001.
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:2, Informative)
No, the RIAA is complaining about file swapping and album swapping on the internet. This is simply not legal.
>>>2. It is amazing that the record industry seems to think it has a right to be immune to the economy. 2001 was a year of massive layoffs and dot.com implosion. IT workers, people who ordinarily have the kind of discretionary income to support large CD collections were especially hard-hit.
True. The economy did suck, it affected everyone. 10% is still a huge decrease though, so they need to justify it SOMEHOW.
>>>3. Napster, the largest and most visible source for swapped files spent much of 2001 under an injunction that severely hobbled it. If anything, 2001 should have brought less so-called piracy than 2000.
Good point, but there are even more choices for people now in post-napster world.
>>>4. C'mon now. Weren't boy bands and teeny-girls starting to grow a little stale in 2001? To generate sales, you gotta deliver product worth buying.
Yeah, pop music is wretched now. But there are a lot of smaller bands that are getting hurt by the MP3 internet thing. If a good band does not get good sales, they are not going to get signed again. This has to have happened...
File-sharing is the RIAA's scapegoat for bad record sales. Can you blame them though?
Also, this article was a bit of fluff. Who honestly does not support copyright protection? We are all fans of the GPL or BSD liscence here. The Best Buy guy did not say that he supported any current methods, but said that he believes they can work together with the RIAA to come up with a good solution. Hey, more power to them. As long as I can listen to music on my iPod, I'm happy. I support bands, I buy music. I am confident that I will still be able to listen to the music I legally own on a device of my choosing, and I believe stores and artists recognize this fact.
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:2)
That's what they say and you are entitled to take them at their word. The laws they back, however, strike at all copying, including that which is perfectly legal. That includes the DMCA, which is law, and the CBDTPA, which, for now, is not.
>True. The economy did suck, it affected everyone. 10% is still a huge decrease though, so they need to justify it SOMEHOW.
Actually, the decline in CD sales was only 5.3%, which is actually smaller than the 7.2% decline from 1996-1997.
Other formats, such as cassettes have been declining for years. Cassettes, hardly a prime source for internet piracy due to their rather low-quality anolog recordings, declined 42.9% between 2000 and 2001 midyear marks. Could it be that the legal recording enabled by the Home Recording Act, coupled with auto CD players, portable CD players, etc. is having a bigger on total shipments than "piracy"?
>Yeah, pop music is wretched now.
Fun statistic with regard to quality of product and consumer reaction: Latin CD sales were up 7% in the same period that the overall CD sales went down 5.3%. Might be a lesson in there.
>But there are a lot of smaller bands that are getting hurt by the MP3 internet thing.
I don't doubt it, I just don't how big the impact is. I do not support internet file-swapping and am quite happy that Napster was shut down.
An important note on this topic. Did you notice that Judge Patel (judge in the Napster case) has been far less sympathetic to the music industry of late? She has expressed the belief that the music industry is doing all it can to lock up its own monopoly in digitally downloaded music.
Wonder what that'll do to small bands?
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:2)
Try this wired article:
http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,50625,00.h
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:2, Insightful)
3. Napster, the largest and most visible source for swapped files spent much of 2001 under an injunction that severely hobbled it. If anything, 2001 should have brought less so-called piracy than 2000.
Unless the pirates simply switched to Morpheus or Kazaa or Gnutella or were content to listen to their 80 gig collection of ripped music or even legal services such as Internet radio.
Sales of CDs increased every single year except for 1997, covering all of the years in which Napster was unencumbered by injunctions. Sales rebounded to record high levels in 1998, by the way, hitting new records in 1999 and 2000.
One more thing: 2001 mid-year volume, in a recession, was 397.9 units. That may be 22.7 units lower than the same period in 2000, but it is 1.1 units higher than in 1999. In fact, those recession-year statistics represent the SECOND HIGHEST volume from 1991 to the present.
As we all know, statistics can usually be manipulated to say whatever you want. When analyzing statistics, people often neglect to account for the possible effect of lag. Ridiculous claims, such as the assertion that the correlation between the advent of Napster and the increase in sales is in fact a causation, simply defy common sense. What the RIAA realizes is that CD sales are going to drop again this year, and next year. Maybe instead of looking at the first derivative of sales, you should look at the second derivative instead.
-a
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:2)
Which is my point. The RIAA looks at a one year drop (by the way -- no more severe than 1997) and tries to turn that into rampant piracy killing the music business. There is no basis for that conclusion in their own figures, especially considering factos such as the economy and ordinary fluctuations in taste and compelling product.
To put it in technical terms, using whichever derivative you prefer, the RIAA is passing gas and asking that we not comment on the smell.
Re:Smoke gets in your eyes...until you check the f (Score:3)
Almost correct. You start from the assumption that piracy is unregulated today, but that isn't true. Copyright law regulates it now. You do recall that Napster has been shut down, don't you? Whether current laws are enough or are too much is the subject for reasonable debate.
OTOH, the RIAAs breathless rants (incorporated quite happily into the "findings" of the Hollings bill, BTW) are being used to support blunderbuss solutions that go far beyond protecting the rights of music publishers and into the realm of trampling the rights of consumers.
blah (Score:2)
When all is said and done, music is still a luxury product. Even if Best Buy changed its policy, the fact would still remain the large labels are still shoving copy protection down our throats.
Know what? Screw them. Go support other artists. There is plenty of great music out there not published by the big labels (indie music, for example- and you can feel better knowing you are funding musicians when you buy their cds, and that you are not funding the purchase of DMCA-type laws.) Yeah, even if all the
They'll turn me into a music pirate (Score:2)
The simple way to deal with Best Buy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The simple way to deal with Best Buy (Score:3, Interesting)
They don't work together, so you have to take one of them back.'
I think any manager with half a wit would take the CD back, instead of facing a cd-rom drive being bought and returned numerous times. just a thought.
What about... (Score:2, Interesting)
Jaysyn
So.. restricted CD's will be cheaper then, right?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Best Buy Is PART of the problem. (Score:2)
A big poster in the Computer Department that says:
"I bought my computer at best buy, now I can download music from the internet and put it on a cd to listen in my car" (Or something like that).
Great.
Re:Best Buy Is PART of the problem. (Score:2)
(Hyperbole courtesy of Michael Eisner.)
could be right (Score:2, Interesting)
Take me for example. Before MP3's were starting to get big I consistently bought 2-4 cd's a year. I had for years. Now comes MP3's and I could both listen to an album for a few days/weeks before I bought and could listen to unknowns for me. I found out I like some bands with names that had really turned me off before. I started buying 10-15 CD's a year. During this time the sales of cd's was consistently rising so I would be willing to bet I was not the only one.
Next the RIAA/MPAA began an insane journey to not only stop me from getting MP3's (which is thier right to do) but they did it in a way that was going to destroy much of the things that I should/am allowed to do (DMCA and it's ilk). Well, I pretty much said screw them and quit buying.
While of course I am only one person most of my friends have done this and they have "spread the word". I would be willing to bet this is not that uncommon. I still occasionaly buy a cd (back to the 1-2 a year deal) because a few cd's I want something more than an MP3 for quality. Also since much of this has now moved outside of the geek sector (it now no longer takes knowlege of technology to see the effects, my parents fuss about not being able to fast-forward through the FBI warnings) they should start seeing effects like this more often.
Unfortunatly I think this will cause them to get even wilder and give them more evidence to use for congressional battles. It will take an act of congress or the judicial branch (much like the VCR crap they tried way back when) to force them to embrace a new profit strategy. No matter what congress passes it will always be ineffective and some day they'll realize that.
Let BestBuy know what you think! (Score:2)
not true (Score:2)
Now that the RIAA treats me like a criminal, and I discovered that they treat their musicians like indentured servants who barely get a penny from CD sales (google search for Courtney Love and RIAA), I no longer care to contribute to their business.
If you want to support the musicians, download their music and send the money for CDs you would have bought directly to them.
Who are they? (Score:2)
But this "Best Buy" entity, instead of being a good store, decided to meddle with politics. Now it dictates what the customers should buy! This is one efficient way to go out of business. Who do they think they are, The State? God? Where is demand, there is supply, and people will -easily- find the supply, especially when Internet makes it so easy.
This is, I presume, just another step in the life cycle of a company. Companies start young and aggressive, then become middle-aged and conservative, then become old and senile. Then they die. No reward for guessing correctly which step of its life Best Buy is at.
Let's overlook the obvious shall we? (Score:2)
Gee, I guess there's not a chance in hell that the decrease in music sales in 2001 was caused mostly by THE ECONOMY GOING INTO A RECESSION, now, could it?
Remember the original DIVX (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, they said that about proprietary DVD formats, too. How many people remember was DIVX used to be, and who financed its development?
Oh well (Score:2)
Big chain stores love to make arangements with record companies. Remember a few years back when they would cut out the dirty words on CDs sent to some big chains and not tell anyone about it?
Music is art. Big business has no place in that world. (P.S., your local record store has a better chance of having that obscure but good CD then Best Buy... they just might be a little short on the latest J-Lo release)
What most people miss (Score:2)
True: Most new music is targeted at the teeniebopper age group, and is therefore (mostly) unlistenable to other people.
True: There's no point in copy protecting a band no one's heard about. Celine Dion? Sure. Mike Errico? Jude Christodal? Accoustic Junction? Uhhhh...Who?
Therefore: any copy protected disc that hits the market is going to be from a HUGE artist, a HUGE label and be unlistenable.
I know the arguments - it's a stepping stone to universal copy protection, it's a violation of our rights, etc. I agree with all of that. BUT. For now it has less of a (musical) effect, so I prefer to see it as less dire. When they protect (insert favorite indie artist here) I'll throw a fit. But Backstreet? Sell it in a steel case that can't be opened without a blowtorch. I'd prefer ithat kind of protection anyway.
Triv
Is Best Buy Controlled by Microsoft? (Score:2)
I did not fail to notice the MSN posters hanging from the roof the last time I was there.
pfft (Score:2)
Perhaps it's because we're in the middle of a gigantic recession, the people who used to buy lots of albums (geeks, who were flush with cash) are now unemployed or working for burger king, and because there hasn't been any really good music release since the nineties?
Of course, the RIAA knows exactly why sales are dropping, but they can lie and make up anything they want. Remember, lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Makes me glad... (Score:2)
</plug>
I would buy their music if ... (Score:2)
I would buy their music if I could get it online via the internet. These are also required:
Then I would be willing to:
I'm sure one of the reasons the CD sales have dipped (aside from the obvious which the music industry wants to play down regarding the economy, which has particularly hit hardest those most knowledgeable about how to share music over the internet), is simply the fact that the music industry has avoided selling music online so far. Of course people pirate music by swapping it online. But if the music industry starts selling it online, that is not going to cause the swapping piracy to increase. No sir, it will go down. Maybe a lot, maybe just a little. But tell me who can't swap music now that will be able to when the option to buy comes along? Instead, many honest people will be willing to buy online and won't have to pirate anymore.
Of course, piracy will never disappear. It's foolish to think it can be eliminated, and futile (and costly) to even try. But once you have genuine availability of all music to all people online, then we'll at least have an honest and accurate figure of what the true level of piracy really is (and not the forced piracy caused by the unavailability of a legitimate means to get music online).
Irony (Score:2)
Say cliché statements to get karma! (Score:3, Insightful)
~#3~
"MTV (TRL) / VH1(Top20) contribute to the downward spiral the industry is in..."
The last time I checked, Viacom [viacom.com] didn't own any record labels. For being such an integral part of the devolution of music, they aren't that attached to it.
~#2~
"... the music industry only offers pre-selected artists... making a mockery of the whole system..."
The record labels can use their marketing muscle to promote the hell out of an artist, but if music listeners (consumers) deem the music to be bad, no amount of marketing can keep said artist in the limelight for too long. Artists may artificially be placed at the top, but without sales & popularity, they don't stick around.
~#1~
"...the music out there today sucks... no wonder music sales aren't stellar anymore..."
Easy to say when you think myopically. Yet, Slashdotters like to mod this kind of trite comment up. Why? I have yet to figure this out. This sort of comment is simply a stab at the mainstream, spoken from someone high upon a perch of musical elitism.
Typical American cheering for the underdog... until the underdog gets too popular. (insert eye-roll here)
Re:Makes that decision easy... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Didn't work that way with me. (Score:2)
Try stealing a book on grammar.
Why even go to retail stores anymore? (Score:2, Informative)
The past two CDs I've wanted were not available in any stores I looked at. I went to over 10 Goddamn stores looking for them, but it was nothing but effort in vein. I asked FYE about the CD and they special ordered it for me. How much when all was said and done? $23.99. Fuck you. I then ordered it online for $13.
Let's see. I can either buy a CD cheaper and have it guaranteed to be there or waste my time going store to store to hope someone has it to rip me off. Decisions, decisions.
Re:10% Drop in sales is pretty good considering (Score:2)
Re:if things keep gong this way. (Score:2)
And what then would be the reason for a consumer to buy a very expensive boat anchor?
Regular people buy PCs because they want to listen to music, watch movies, browse Net and have email. Take away first two, and most consumers will settle on a kitchen appliance for $100, and PC industry will suffer serious losses.
Re:This could be very very bad (Score:2)
Re:Some people wont like this but (Score:3, Informative)
Hope this helps!