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RIAA Wants Taxpayer-Funded IP Police 522

Sydney Weidman writes "RIAA has given testimony before the House Appropriations Committee asking for more federal money for Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property investigation teams. You can find RIAA's side of the story here and a Cnet story is available as well. Apparently, RIAA is not satisfied with the current deployment of CHIP teams since they have been more involved in anti-hacking activities than in anti-piracy. My favourite Hilary Rosen quote: "Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music." I guess Rosen won't be happy until each and every pirate is charged with crimes against humanity and convicted by the International Court of Justice"
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RIAA Wants Taxpayer-Funded IP Police

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  • Fun... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Buran ( 150348 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:37AM (#3415295)
    Soon, all restaurants will be Taco Bell, and all corporations will be MPRIAA.

    But we still won't have figured out the seashell thing.
  • CHiPs. (Score:5, Funny)

    by saintlupus ( 227599 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:39AM (#3415309)
    RIAA is not satisfied with the current deployment of CHIP teams

    Of course not. Erik Estrada retired years ago, and it just hasn't been the same since.

    --saint
  • I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rutledjw ( 447990 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:42AM (#3415334) Homepage
    If this is another "opportunity" to keep pressure on our local Congressmen/women and Senators? Sen Disney's SSSCA was killed outright due to the number of letters recieved on the matter.

    It just seems that there is an awful lot of momentum right now against this kind of "Big Brother" activity from RIAA. Why not keep it up?

    It just seems absurd to me that in this day and age where terrorism is such a focal point, that we would divert funds to fight music piracy. I'm quite certian that Al Qaeda is going after the latest Dave song instead of looking for a way to hack financial companies.

  • see this? (Score:3, Informative)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:42AM (#3415337)
    RIAA, do you see this?

    I am a taxpayer, I don't want this. Tough.

    • ...stop buying music, robbing the RIAA of the capital they need to buy politicians? I buy only used CDs and music I can get online from people that are in no way associated with the RIAA. It's all legit, I get what I want, and the labels don't get a penny. Win-win.

  • CHiPS? (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by GodHead ( 101109 )
    Well... AFAIK, CHiPS spends most of their time chasing stolen cars. I had no idea they were stolen by hackers. But I'm glad they're still around. Erik Estrada is so cool!
  • Permanent Link (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rot26 ( 240034 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:45AM (#3415350) Homepage Journal
    Hey, Mr. Taco, Sir, how about putting a permanent link on the main page that would allow anybody to quickly find their senator/congressman's contact information. Like maybe start being just a little proactive with some of these issues. If even 3% of /. readers actually DID something (call/write) I think it could make a *significant* difference. Weenies, kwhores, and goaters notwhithstanding, I have never seen a forum with a greater number of informed, intelligent, and articulate participants. Some of us probably just need a little kick in the ass to actually DO something other than bitch.
    (yeah, I'm a hypocrite and karma whore. That doesn't mean I'm WRONG.
  • Hilary Rosen quote (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dead Penis Bird ( 524912 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:45AM (#3415360) Homepage
    Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music.

    When will she realize that there's more to creating music than money? Artists create because they enjoy doing so. It's one of the profession, IMHO that have a lot of job satisfaction.

    Sometimes she'd further her cause by staying quiet.
    • "When will she realize that there's more to creating music than money? Artists create because they enjoy doing so."

      But if they weren't, in fact, in it for the money, and just creating their music just "because they enjoy doing so," they wouldn't be signing multi-million dollar contracts with these labels, now would they?

  • Just an observation, notice they wanna stamp out fair use, but definatly want free speech to reign? check the "Freedom of speach" link on their site:

    Harmful to Minors: Such laws seek to change Supreme Court standards for materials that are denied to children by lumping certain sound recordings into the "harmful to minors" category. This step makes it easier to ban sales to minors of certain objectionable material.
    The RIAA is currently, or has recently, engaged in fighting these "harmful to minors" proposals in Washington, Florida, New York, Michigan, Georgia, Tennessee, North Dakota, and Wisconsin, and on the federal level in the House and Senate.

    ellimate fair use & promote free speech = more $$$

    gotta love it..

    • Just an observation, notice they wanna stamp out fair use, but definatly want free speech to reign? check the "Freedom of speach" link on their site:

      Of course. The RIAA knows that one of its biggest enemies is the FCC. If the FCC says "No minors shall be sold music containing any more than X number of vulgarities"; the RIAA immediately suffers as a result of losing a potential direct sale.

      If the FCC says "Everybody can purchase and listen to whomever they want", the RIAA benefits, as now that 8 year old kid will be able to buy the RIAA-sanctioned Rap album about killing police officers.
  • "If you can't protect what you own, you don't own anything," Valenti said in a statement.

    Gee, thanks, I was really confused before you cleared that up.
  • Grrr... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben AT int DOT com> on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:49AM (#3415397) Homepage
    The sad thing is, as long as congress keeps passing ridiculous laws like the DMCA, the RIAA will have an argument for the formation of these ridiculous law enforcement groups. The problem here is not that the RIAA wants it's own secret police, but that the laws exist that give those police a job to do.

    However, when when the IP spooks start knocking on the doors of well meaning people everywhere demanding that they uninstall Kazaa or have their computer seized, maybe we can get the grass-roots support to get these laws repealed.

    • However, when when the IP spooks start knocking on the doors of well meaning people everywhere demanding that they uninstall Kazaa or have their computer seized, maybe we can get the grass-roots support to get these laws repealed.

      Well, if that ever happens, I don't think that people will fight to let the system get changed. WE have a historical precedent when the offenses that are as intense as jaywalking are inforced so radically.

      It was called US prohibition. Outlawing alcohol on moral grounds. All it did was increase the incentive for making illegal acts available. The more you criminalize something common and relative, the more likely that people will create a larger black market. The more likely organized crime will pick up the tab slightly cheaper than the current market value.

      Bootlegging will be waaaay
      out of control. Its Bugsy Siegel time again!

      Fucking Hillary Rosen needs to check her business contracts and CD prices before she checks her computer.
  • by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:50AM (#3415399) Journal
    Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."

    Of course, this is wrong headed.

    What is involved in Piracy is a lack of respect for the property rights of others, which is something that the Music industry has failed to provide the proper example for.

    Far from arguing from the moral high ground, the only high ground they occupy is a pile of excrement at the bottom of the latrine they have fallen into, and in fact dug for themselves.

    • by mattdm ( 1931 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:05AM (#3415527) Homepage
      To be a little more clear, it's a lack of respect for intellectual property rights of others. Whatever your view on physical property rights, it should be obvious that ownership of abstract ideas is a very different thing, linked to physical property only by a tenuous analogy. An MP3 file, after all, is just a very large number -- is it really rational that some organization (or even some individual) can restrict other people from using that number?

      The problems seem to happen when everyone starts believing the perfection of the analogy, and carrying over all sorts of baggage about the way things "should" be from their conceptions of physical property rights. The RIAA/MPAA love this, of course, since perpetuating this myth is what keeps them rolling in cash.

      The reality is that there's nothing natural about intellectual "property" -- it's a convenient fiction created by society and enforced by the government. Convenient to a point, at least -- I'm not a wacked out radical here: I can see the advantages of limited IP laws to promote invention and arts. It's when that focus gets lost and the spurious analogy somehow takes moral precedence that I get annoyed.
  • Why the hell should taxpayers pay so private corporations can arrest them? It's their legal battle,
    if they want to fight this they should do it with their own damn money.
    • Why the hell should taxpayers pay so private corporations can arrest them? It's their legal battle,
      if they want to fight this they should do it with their own damn money

      The RIAA and the Government are in similar situations: they wouldn't have their money if it weren't for consumers/citizens. In both instances, they're using our money against us.

    • I'd be the last one to say I agree with the current setup of copyright laws, but to say that the government has no responsibility in enforcing the property rights of people is ludicrous. Just think if they did the same for trespassing, burglary or auto-theft. The people do have an interest in the government protecting their rights. That's what allows us to avoid vigilantism.
  • Yay! (Score:2, Insightful)

    Its great, as a government worker a fraction of every cent i make pays me, now another fraction of another cent i make could go towards arresting me!
  • ...but did there happen to be anyone testifying in the interests of The People to provide a counterpoint to Rosen? Was Shawn Fanning asked to speak? Felton? I would like to know why is it that they always get to address Congress, but not anyone from the other side.

    I particularly like the comment near the end from Valenti. "If you can't protect what you own, you don't own anything." Sounds like he's taking a hit on US Government with their "failure" to protect us from terrorists. Little statements like that will no doubt be massively effective to a particularly sensitive legislature.
  • not so crazy? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tps12 ( 105590 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:54AM (#3415437) Homepage Journal
    This will probably get modded down, as I can already hear the slashbots raising their voices in protest, but here goes...

    Yes, the RIAA and the whole notion of intellectual property go against common sense, not to mention the Constitution (Article 2, IIRC).

    And yes, the majority (note that word: majority) of IP is indefensible, and a waste of time to deal with (Britney Spears using Windows...wouldn't be surprised if she worked at Micro$oft!).

    But we have built this great nation (and, to the extent that other countries have prospered, they have done so emulating the USA in this respect) on the rule of law, and the enforcement of said law by the appropriate Authorities.

    Yes, they are funded by taxes, and we all find taxes a "necessary evil." But the right of taxation is firmly granted in the Constitution (Article 4) for the "protection of the Law of the Land."

    To suggest that, given the current laws protecting intellectual property, we should then turn around and ignore them when it comes to enforcement, is going about it all wrong.

    The result will be not only mass piracy (leading to more stringent laws!), but a complete collapse of all that we hold dear, the Order of Society.

    No, until we reach that day when IP laws are stricken down from the books forever (I propose a new Amendment!), we must do our utmost to defend these laws, for they are the very things which make this country good.

    Disclaimer: IANAL.

    • Re:not so crazy? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 )
      It wont happen... noone really gives a rats ass about who own what program,song,recordings of farts or other drivel... the general public does not believe in obeying laws, let alone laws that inconvience them.

      You want Examples? I'll give you an excellent example you can go observe right now.

      Go look at traffic.. over 70% is breaking the speed laws, and about 50% are ignoring the other traffic laws (tailgating, reckless driving, running red lights, passing on the right, passing at an intersection, etc...) These people couldn't give a rats ass about what laws say or are ther to protect them/other from. Hell retail fraud (shoplifting) is through the roof and not to poor black kids trying to steal a stereo to sell for food, but rich prissy white girls doin' it for the thrill. (A nice expose' on a local TV channel about this last month) Nobody cares about laws, manners, or even being polite..

      Sorry but going to the grocery store with your "FUCK YOU!" t-shirt and your "Eat SHIT aNd DIE" hat while standing in line spouting "Sh*** that M....F... didn't give me my F..... dollar, i'm gonna kill him" is not appropriate behavoir in public. (It also made it easy for me to make the loser look more like a loser... but that's another story....)

      The general public care about some songs that belong to what the public percieves as spoiled rich brats?? Not in your lifetime... not in anyone's lifetime.
    • Re:not so crazy? (Score:5, Informative)

      by 5KVGhost ( 208137 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:33AM (#3415737)
      To suggest that, given the current laws protecting intellectual property, we should then turn around and ignore them when it comes to enforcement, is going about it all wrong.

      No, until we reach that day when IP laws are stricken down from the books forever (I propose a new Amendment!), we must do our utmost to defend these laws, for they are the very things which make this country good.


      I hate feeding trolls, but here goes. The problem with that argument is that laws which are actively enforced and widely obeyed are seldom stricken from the books, no matter how dumb they are. Once a law becomes a viable source of revenue or a means to power it gains a larger base of support.

      I agree that the ultimate answer is to remove or change the laws. Though IMHO no Amendment is necessary, simply a return to the original intent of the protections already in the Constitution.

      In the meantime, however, passive resistance is the best offense. The RIAA and MPAA can't possibly lock up everyone that offends them, no matter how many bad laws they buy or how many IP G-Men they conjur up. Heretofore all they've gotten for their troubles are a massive public backlash and a lot of people closely examining industry practicies that they'd have preferred to keep in the dark. The tighter their grasp becomes, the more power will slip through their fingers.
  • Here we go again (Score:2, Informative)

    by SLot ( 82781 )
    Time to get out your keyboards/pen&paper and write to your Congresscritter on the Appropriations Committee [house.gov].

    Remember to be polite when explaining why you disagree with this.
  • by TheNecromancer ( 179644 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:58AM (#3415472)
    There's a future in music, at least we hope so, and much of that future will be online. If we are able to construct a new global marketplace dominated by legitimate businesses rather than pirates, we will be able to reach niche markets with unprecedented efficacy.

    Well, why doesn't the RIAA focus its' efforts and resources on bringing about this marketplace instead of trying to prosecute the pirates!

  • by banda ( 206438 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:00AM (#3415492)
    You know what I'm sick of? The RIAA repeatedly states that only a small percentage of music titles are profitable. They go on to insinuate that when piracy reduces the profits of the few profitable albums, that it impacts the record companies' incentive to privide broad catalog.

    This is utter hogwash. If the record companies had any idea beforehand which CDs would be profitable, they would only publish the profitable ones. But they don't know ahead of time. That's why they publish a broad catalog, so that they have a better chance of publishing a hit and making a profit. To insinuate that the record companies publish unprofitable albums out of the goodness of their hearts is the height of deception.

    Let's look at this from the point of view of a fictional touring music act that we'll call "Zit Remedy". If "Megadisc Records", member of the RIAA decides to publish a CD of Zit Remedy's music, it has only a slim chance of being profitable. If Zit Remedy's CD isn't profitable, then Zit Remedy receives no royalty payments. However, the CD still stands as a tool for publicity, possibly increasing concert revenues and sales of merchandise. Except Zit Remedy's self-titled debut release is priced at $20 a copy, so it reaches a very small audience... unless college students start ripping and file sharing. Then the profit potential for Zit Remedy climbs. More buzz = more concert attendees = more revenues. The only loser here is Megadisc.

    It's pretty clear that the record companies represented by the RIAA have a flawed business model. I don't think it's up to taxpayers to subsidize bad business models. If it were, I could start a buggy whip factory and retire wealthy. Let Megadisc figure it out for itself.

  • Has anyone stopped to think that there are actually two forms of music piracy. There is the one that everyone one of us does, downloading a few [thousand] mp3's here or there. Does this article make any reference to that? No...

    What is of bigger concern, and I agree, is to take your downloaded mp3's and make a business of it selling CD's. Downloading should be well under most people's moral radar, but selling those for a profit is another story.

    I'm almost helping the RIAA, this will be a popular post here on Slashdot!!

    • If I could believe for a nanosecond that they wouldn't go after the small timer, then I'd actually almost support this. People who are out making money, and significant amounts of it, can and should be prosecuted. You really thought that "$250,000 fine and x years in jail" on every DVD was meant for you and me? Hell no. It's for the "big time" pirates--the ones who are profiting from it.

      The problem is, the laws are so vaguely worded that almost any offense becomes prosecutable. You wouldn't think that a US law could apply to a Russian citizen, and yet Skylarov sat in jail for how long? It's crap like that that makes IP laws and their enforcement so sleazy.

      The reason I said "almost support" is because while it's good in theory, having the government further fund the enforcement of music and movie industry agendas would be like the mafia having the fbi help out on debt collection, or a bank having the irs help collect on deadbeats. It's legally wrong, but it's not the government's job to go looking for it. When a complaint is filed, they should investigate. Going on fishing expeditions or conducting year long sting operations is well outside reasonable boundaries.
    • s/but selling those for a profit/misrepresenting those as the real thing/

  • I am CEO of a fairly successful web development company. We provide web hosting services, as well as software as a service on our servers for which our clients pay a substantial monthly fee.

    Sometimes a client is late paying, despite the fact that in our contract with the client we clearly specify they should pay their dues at the beginning of each calendar month.

    I want a red telephone on my desk so I can call some tax-payer funded corporate police to go smash the fuckers door down if they're late paying. That would be great! Yea!

    Only joking. Almost the weekend!
  • The Cost Of A CD (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mshiltonj ( 220311 )
    RIAA Propoganda: The Cost Of A CD [riaa.org]

    Lifted:
    Then come marketing and promotion costs -- perhaps the most expensive part of the music business today. They include increasingly expensive video clips, public relations, tour support, marketing campaigns, and promotion to get the songs played on the radio. For example, when you hear a song played on the radio -- that didn't just happen! Labels make investments in artists by paying for both the production and the promotion of the album, and promotion is very expensive. New technology such as the Internet offers new ways for artists to reach music fans, but it still requires that some entity, whether it is a traditional label or another kind of company, market and promote that artist so that fans are aware of new releases.

    That's why it costs $18 for a CD instead of $1.50? Right.....

    That is so lame.
  • I'm starting to host small community wikis on my home box ( http://wage.packet.org ) for writers, poets, musicians and others who stand about as much of a chance to land a contract with a media outlet as they have of contracting diseases of the rich.

    Its a place for them to put their stuff so it gets out there and, being a wiki, they can collaborate on editing and enhancing the content.

    Content that the xxAAs doesn't control and squeeze every possible dime out of. Content that's not constantly churned in an effort to wipe out the creative source by limiting their exposure while fostering a feeding frenzy for whatever's NEW NEW NEW while its really the same old whine in the same old bottle with a new label that really doesn't really look any different.

    And who knows? I may have the next Stephen King, Emily Post or Nirvana putting their stuff on my box just to have a back-up and to register a copyright date.

    Or I may be starting an entirely new form of collaborative writing.
    • I'm starting to host small community wikis on my home box ( http://wage.packet.org ) for writers, poets, musicians and others who stand about as much of a chance to land a contract with a media outlet as they have of contracting diseases of the rich.

      I've been wondering why some of the bigger names in the industry (those with a conscience, that is), like the folks in the Recording Artists Coalition, or people with huge clout like Stephen King, etc., don't get together and start their own media business. (I hesitate to call it a "label," 'cause there's really no reason to restrict this to music only).

      A company that treats its artists well, with reasonable contracts, easy outs, maybe even "a la carte" marketing costs (not "hey, we'll do everything we can, and tell you how much you get after it's all sorted out", but "hey, you want us to buy an ad on MTV? Here's what it'll cost you. You wanna do all your own promotion on the internet? Here's what it'll *add* to your monthly checks.")

      A company that isn't afraid to act as an advocate or promoter for the artists, rather than for their stockholders.

      Am I crazy? Does such a beast already exist? Or would they be beaten into submission by the RIAA and the other big players?

      If a company like this had real backing, and were to sign some big names (king, dave matthews, billy joel, whatever), then I'd think they'd have a chance of actually succeeding.

      Maybe (and now I'm getting REALLY crazy), set themselves up as a non-profit company? Hmm....

  • I have seen a few posts where people continue to insist that downloading a MP3 is stealing. Let's look at this from the proper perspective, shall we?

    First of all, you're not stealing anything. When you download an MP3, you're transfering electrons from one source to another (and they are eventually recycled). Electrons. Bits. A CD is a thing that you can hold, touch, whatever. It costs money to produce copies of a work on CD, but nothing to send it over the Net (except bandwidth costs). If anyone is losing money, it's the RIAA and ONLY the RIAA consortium. You do not hurt the artists. In fact, you can *really* help the artists out with online donation. [fairtunes.com] Every time you download an MP3, give the arist 100% of the profits instead of the 0.01% that the RIAA gives them. This is the best way to weaken the RIAA because it shows artists they they do not need a big record label to get their music sold. All they need is a cheap computer and an Internet connection.

    What the RIAA is pissed off about is that this technique which some call "stealing" gives power back to the artists. Several artists have attempted to distribute music via MP3, but the RIAA has smacked them down for doing so. The RIAA is pissed because they hate these so-called "theives" because their business model is becoming outdated. To combat that, they want to make the government freeze-frame innovation.

    Wake up. This greedy group of companies are the real theives. They seize ownership of the work of artists, and then pay them shit for it. Let's fight those bastards by downloading MP3's like crazy, and then giving the artists the money directly. Simple! It's cheaper for you, and more profitable for the musicians! What more do you want?
  • This tirade from the record industry is to be expected. Fair use is now dead with the current state of laws in this country.

    Right now, even the use of DVDs you own out right are in jeopardy from laws regarding circumvention devices. This is all so insane and this comes from someone that does take these issues seriously and votes accordingly.

    Corporate America makes the heart of the country beat because our culture based on the bottom line. Unless you want to go Socialist and I don't then you accept this.

    However, I do not think that gives the corporate powers that be the right to trample on the personal rights of the citizens to actually use the products they spend good many for, including copying that material to a different format and using it in that medium (from CD to mp3 of course for example).

    We also know the insane diregard for prior-use in copyright and trademark law as well.

    Laws simply have no clue about technology and see all use of technology beyond a corporate money-making function as suspect.

    That is the scary part that know one really talks about.

    ________________________________________________ __
  • "Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."

    Actually, this primarily hurts the pirate. Other people aren't particularly benefitted by someone else encouraging investment in his own taste in music. If Britney Spears fans don't pay for her music, non-fans won't be hurt by her going into another business, and people who actively dislike her won't have to hear her on the radio or at parties any more.

    Encouragement or non-encouragement of further production is very much a private, individual issue.
  • The IP police thing aside, what exactly is wrong with this quote:

    My favourite Hilary Rosen quote: "Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."

    I mean, it's a statement of the obvious isn't it? We can argue until the cows come home about alternative methods of funding music, but on a straightforward level, surely the above is right? Surely if people copy rather than buy, less money goes to the artists, which means fewer artists able to support themselves?


    And what's the deal with this...


    I guess Rosen won't be happy until each and every pirate is charged with crimes against humanity and convicted by the International Court of Justice"

    Aside from being over the top, it doesn't follow on from the previous statement at all. It doesn't even follow from Rosen's desire for taxpayer funded enforcement of copyright law.


    Current copyright law (the DMCA) is absurdly over the top. The RIAA is doing some pretty absurd things to enforce it. But I don't see why Rosen's quote was singled out, it actually makes her look quite reasonable. And suggesting that anyone's proposing treating copyright breakers as war criminals makes you look silly and ensures the real arguments you might have against the current copyright regime, arguments which are legitimate and need to be heard, will be ignored.

  • The entertainment industry needs a dose of reality. Specifically, the music industry.

    The whole industry is rife with kickbacks and legislated fees (ask your local station how much they had to pay in ASCAP/BMI fees). It really is time that YOU as the consumer let these people know that you're not willing to be labelled as a criminal.

    I propose that the next time you want to purchase a CD, video tape or DVD, you write/email the company marketing, sales droids of the record label and the RIAA and inform them that you have deferred the purchase until they get their act together. Keep a running total of how much you've deferred spending and make sure they know that the reason they're losing sales is not because of piracy, it's because of their greed and willingness to dissolve your rights for their profit.

    I would also suggest copying this to the sales and marketing droids at large flavourless major retailers like Wal-Mart, Target, Best-Buy.

    There's two reasons why this will get attention. First, any time you mention a lost sale to anyone in a sales capacity, they get very nervous. Once you start attaching dollar figures to lost sales, this is a topic that will be discussed in monthly sales and marketing meetings. They'll start visiting offices in their building wanting to know what's going on and why this is an issue. Second, even with a small percentage of people deferring purchases and emailing, the volume of mail is going to be an inconvenience that can't go un-noticed.

    The only way to make a corporation see the folly of its ways is to make it clear in no uncertain terms that their actions equate to lost sales. Make it clear in black and white, or rather red and white and I'm sure they'll back-off.
  • Although it has nothing to do with IP or Music, here in Ontario we already tax payer funded police - the Ontario gov't in the guise of the Ministry of Transportation.

    In the Toronto area we have a highway called the ETR (Electronic Toll Route) which, as its name implies, is a toll highway.

    Here's the kicker: if you have any outstanding payments due to the ETR the MoT will not allow you to renew your plates!

    On the surface that sounds understandable being an Ontario highway and all... BUT the MoT doesn't own the ETR. The Ontario gov't doesn't own the ETR. CANADA doesn't even own the ETR! Our government sold if off to a foreign company (not the US, but don't get me started on that).

    So, we have the Ontario Ministry of Transportation acting as a collection agency with the ability to extort money from you on behalf of a privately owned, foreign, corporation!

    A corporation, I might add, facing a class action lawsuit for certain obsene business practices (they have a habit of charging $20 fee's on a $0.20c overdue balance, amoung many other things).

    So where does that leave you? Have a dispute with the ETR? Tough, no car for you then. And I thought America was bad...

  • by eyeball ( 17206 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:26AM (#3415685) Journal
    Ok, say this insanity passes. As a musician, would I only be able to take advantage of protection of the IP cops if I were a member of the RIAA? Wouldn't this be some form of extortion or racketeering?

  • by mttlg ( 174815 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:28AM (#3415701) Homepage Journal
    Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music.

    And centralized corporate control of the music industry hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music through an increased barrier to entry, less diversity of the music that is promoted, price fixing in the distribution segment, aggressive legal tactics used against distribution mechanisms that could be used to bypass the need for a centralized corporate structure, etc. Now which one do you think causes the most harm?

    Of course, using the usual "evil naughty no-good pirates" rhetoric to support the "treating copyright violations as criminal matters" issue is to be expected I guess. We can't expect the RIAA to deal with internal issues that could reduce piracy and copyright infringement at the expense of market dominance...

  • by openbear ( 231388 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @09:30AM (#3415711)
    "Piracy is not a private offense," Hilary Rosen, president of the RIAA, said in a statement. "It hurts everyone ... a crime ... against each of us."

    Since she brought it up, lets discuss crimes "against each of us":
    • Price fixing, why does an audio CD still cost about as much as a DVD? Isn't an album much cheeper to produce (as in creating the content, not the physical media) than a full length movie.
    • Why is the market oversaturated with crappy boy bands and no-talent-big-fake-boobs-Brittany-Spears clones. The real crime against humanity is that our ears are violated daily with crappy corporate formula pop crap.

    Just my $0.02
    • by radja ( 58949 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @10:31AM (#3416201) Homepage
      about the pricefixing.. I've been wondering.. how come the average book has a higher production price, and takes more time to write. Still, the average price of a book here in the netherlands is E 12.95 (according to a recent article in the paper) whereas the average CD, with higher sales and lower costs for production is almost twice that??)

      //rdj

      • Still, the average price of a book here in the netherlands is E 12.95 (according to a recent article in the paper) whereas the average CD, with higher sales and lower costs for production is almost twice that??)

        higher sales = higher demand = higher price
    • Because young girls idolize boy bands and Spears clones, that's why. And they're willing to spend oodles of money to buy their "music" and merchandise, and to stand at concerts shrieking their brains out.
  • "If you can't protect what you own, you don't own anything," Valenti said in a statement.

    It's interesting to hear Mr. Valenti of the RIAA admitting this, because it basically implies that they don't own anything. I'm sure he did not intend to make that point, but he did.

    Sure, the RIAA keeps trying to impose copy protection on their content, but as Schneier eloquently explains [counterpane.com], their efforts are futile:

    ... software content protection does not work. It cannot work. You can distribute encrypted content, but in order for it to be read, viewed, or listened to, it must be turned into plaintext. A clever enough hacker with good enough debugging tools will always be able to ... capture the plaintext after decryption. And he can write a software program that allows others to do it automatically. This cannot be stopped.
  • Sales of jackboots rose dramatically, to a all-time high in April, 2002.

    When asked about the accessories that were sold with the jackboots, the store owner had this to say: "Well, they bought a lot of DoorBusters and ski masks. Though I thought they would be interested in bulletproof vests, they said that where they're going, they don't need to worry about that."

    Along with the sales spike in jackboots, MP3 players, also known as "The Devil", have started to slump.

    "Yeah, well, we heard about the sales spike of jackboots, and decided it just wasn't worth it anymore." said Timmy Malone, admitted pirate. "They're taking all of the fun out of it now, with rummaging through our stuff." Right after the interview, Timmy was kicked in the groin and arrested.

    Local police chief was quoted as saying "I wish we had this much power."

    When asked about the tactics that this new intellectual police, or "iPolice", they said that there was nothing to see here, and to move along.

  • Just a thought. Weren't we talking about that fortnight ago?
  • Possibly the part that sent my blood pressure flying, from the ZDNet article:
    The RIAA added that 2.8 million
    unauthorized CD-R (CD-recordable) discs were seized in 2001, compared to 1.6 million in 2000.

    My emphasis added. Holy living fuck. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy me a permit.

    GMFTatsujin
  • It seems to me that many powerful political figures first start out their careers with a genuine interest in the position or idea that they feel strongly about, with the urge to pursue it and convince others.

    Along the way, however, if success has come to them in small amounts, the bigger a figure they become and the more influence they have, the actual fight and not the original cause is what spurs them onwards. It's almost as if once they get going, they're afraid to stop lest they lose prestige, power, or the cause they have been fighting for rolls backwards down the slope of success.

    I believe that Hilary Rosen has gone beyond the line of "genuine, meaningful cause-fighting" and into this "don't let go or you'll never get back on the horse" syndrome. All of a sudden, the fight has become her personal fight; the rewards and setbacks are her own, reflect directly on her current power and reputation.

    The problem for all of us, in this, is that she won't back down. She'll never back down until she retires, has health problems, or just falls over dead.

    Case in Point: Bill Gates. Is it just me, or has that man become the most weanie person on the stand? He has gone from large, powerful, can't-touch-me-attitude, pre-litigation CEO to a stuttering, shocked, I-can't-believe-they're-actually-suing-me ex-CEO, to a psuedo-confidant clear-as-spring-water wuss. M$ is clearly (to me at any rate) his personal fight, and he's being whacked and whacked and whacked until he's a climber on a sheer wall that refuses to let go.

    This is going to be a tiring fight, folks, if you choose to fight it (and I do). Ever cornered a badger? Ever tried to play catch with a grizzly's cub? If you enjoy being disembowled, I encourage you. Noone ever said the fight was going to be glorious, but in the end, perhaps we'll have won something we truly care about.
  • Generation Gap (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bogusflow ( 470441 )
    I guess my age is showing here (I'm 29), but in some ways I see the RIAA's point. No I don't support federal "shock troops" breaking down your dorm door to take your pirated CDs. But, it appears that we have a whole generation of college-age people who have become used to paying $0.00 for their music. My brother-in-law is 19, and he hasn't purchased a CD in three years. Sure when you look at the micro level, what difference is it to Sony Music if a college sophomore is burning CDs at 3:00 am in South Bend or wherever. But at the macro level, this all adds up, and IMO not just for the huge labels but for the individual artists as well. I'm an amateur musician but if I had an album on the market, I think I would be interested in making enough money to continue a recording career. If you folks who pirate music are so interested in these artists and their work, why can't you support them? Where, exactly, do you think their royalty payments come from? I purchase my CDs willingly because I know I'm helping these people continue their careers. The bottom line for me is, would I be willing to shoplift from Tower rather than pay? No, and in my mind, copying pirated music is the same thing. Sure its accessible and easy to do, but that doesn't make it right. Or maybe I'm just old, after all I was buying vinyl until the last store in town stopped carrying it.
  • Maybe old, but I found this yesterday. Though it was funny.

    Recording Artists Safety Guide to the Beach [cosmo7.com]

  • We need IP to be a priority within these [CHIP] units.

    Considering that the CIA just warned of a Chinese cyber attack on the US [latimes.com], I really doubt that CHIP units are going to start devoting more time to a few 15-year olds trading MP3s.
  • Every single citizen does NOT have their own personal body guard looking out for them at all times. Why the hell should a coporation or group of corporations have that type of protection, paid for by the people? This is insane. If they want their IP protected, they should pay for it themselves. This is the RIAA we're talking about, they got multi-billion dollar companies behind them. But they want the people who keep them in business to pay to protect them... What's next!? wait, don't answer that I don't want to know.
    • hehe good, this is exactly what I wanted to say. I just couldn't believe that a corporation who makes as much money as the RIAA takes tax-payers money.

      They sure have the right to steal our money but we should never ever listen to music for free. From now on, if they want me to listen to music, they better pay me.
  • Rosen is talking about people making unauthorized copies of recordings on DVD's and CD's and selling them in large numbers. Can we at least agree that this particular activity is piracy, even if sharing MP3's over the Internet isn't? With regards to this piracy, I think the recording industry is well within their rights to demand relief. This activity is, in fact, directly diminishing their revenue. In this case, they are not talking about siccing the CHIPs on FastTrack users. So don't fly off the handle.
  • I'm apparently in the minority. A college student who doesn't listen to music, doesn't buy Cd's and doesn't download MP3's. I believe my position gives me a different perspective on this issue.

    The fact is, music is too expensive for my tastes. I'm a cheap bastard but an honorable one and I just cannot justify spending 20 bucks on a CD unless I like every song on it. Most Cd's just aren't that good.

    As for the RIAA, I think they are greedy corporate types, but the world is filled with them and America wouldn't be what it is without them. I do oppose taxpayer funded control of their IP rights because, because I believe that the MP3 trade actually helps CD sales and I don't want my tax dollars going to something I care nothing about.

    I also dislike the "big brother" side of having more people watching my online activities (not that I do anything illegal).

    Finally, if the RIAA did manage to destroy all music sharing, I think things the industry would split. On one side would be all the corporate backed monsters who rely on the tours to rake in most of the money. On the other side would be so called independents (who'd probably get together in some fashion) to start their own model of business.

    Not that I care much about what happens, but I think it will work itself out in the end either way.
  • Go ahead Uncle Sam, enact this.

    I will then simply cease filing a tax return. I might even write a letter explaining my reason for doing so. Go ahead, try and collect, and watch it turn into a media circus as I scream about it on Slashdot (thereby transmitting it across the globe). Come on, I DARE you.

    ~Chazzf
  • Thought police (Score:5, Interesting)

    by A55M0NKEY ( 554964 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @10:25AM (#3416164) Homepage Journal
    The RIIA(sp?) wants taxpayers to pay for the cost of tracking down those who 'diminish the incentive to invest in creating music'


    First of all: Most of the money from sales of music goes to marketing of music. This is because the music listening public are too stupid and sheepish to be immune from being convinced to buy whatever crap BMG wants to sell. This marketing machine payed for by record companies does more to stifle the creation of music than CD pirates ever could. Since local bands could never spend so much to convince the public to buy their stuff, it takes a back seat to the stuff on MTV. Most of the value of the music IP that the RIIA is worried about is not in the music itself but in the marketing investment that the record company has made in pushing the music. For example: Britanny Spears mad diddly off her first album, but could command huge $$ for another one since the record company had already invested mega $$ in marketing her.


    Is this maketing a service? Should we thank the record companies for bringing us music we might not otherwise know about? I think not. I think that especially with the internet, bands can show the world what they've got easily, and people can find it on their own. In this wired age record companies who once were the only way to distribute music find that they no longer serve a useful purpose and are nothing more than leaches on society. They control what is on the radio, so that's what I hear, and that's all I know to buy. Without them the radio would play other stuff by artists who have placed their stuff on the internet for free, and who would be happy if I listened so I would want to go to one of their concerts. Music would continue to be created even if there were no such thing as record companies. Maybe artists would not get rich by leveraging the record company's marketing investment, but maybe lesser known artists would make a better living if they could get a little airplay.


    Second of all: Do we want an IP police to tell us what we are allowed to think without paying a fee?

    Do you think the cops can shut down p2p file trading of copyrighted material without snooping on everything that is traded on p2p? If the FBI can't stop illegal IP traffic on it's budget and using it's existing powers, then it still has use in stopping kidnappers and terrorists, in fact that 'failure' doesn't tarnish the public's image of the FBI because most people who want music and would rather wait for it to download than pay the money for it at the store download it guiltlessly, and don't want the FBI to stop them.


    But if there is a special agency who's only purpose is to stop illegal IP trading, they will called before congress if their agency is innefectual, and they will explain that the task is impossible, and that to enforce the law they need an SSSCA type law, and that Freenet should be banned, and that so should most p2p, and gpl software too.


    I would be willing to give up the notion of copyright and the patent systems altogether. What moral right does someone who creates an artifact that represents an idea to the very eternal notion itself? They should own only the artifact itself. Why should we subsidise the creation of such artifacts by granting copyright? I don't think the value of what is created in that way warrants the subsidy since the material created is mostly created with the express purpose of making $$ and not with enriching my life. Why is fostering technological growth good in and of itself? Is the car really a good thing? Has it actually benefitted mankind? If patents are granted to compete with other countries then maybe we should stop the war and sign a peace treaty outlawing patents.

  • by The Panther! ( 448321 ) <panther.austin@rr@com> on Friday April 26, 2002 @11:37AM (#3416589) Homepage
    "Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."

    That cracked me up! I guess everyone feels there is a humanitarian need for paying for music in this world. That's like coal miners saying oil and natural gas are bad for everone because there isn't enough coal mines opening up anymore. The afflicted parties and everyone are usually quite at odds with each other. :-)
  • by altair1 ( 71744 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @12:15PM (#3416911)
    Piracy does hurt everyone. When someone forcibly boards a ship on the high seas, rapes all women on baord, murders the crew, steals their cargo and burns their ship into the sea (possibly with people still alive on board), its a horrible thing.

    On the other hand, I thought Rosen was trying to promote some sort of copyright violation police. I have no idea why she's talking about piracy though, which has nothing to do with copyright violation.
  • by bonch ( 38532 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @04:47PM (#3418838)
    http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/sue_5 6k.html
  • by thumbtack ( 445103 ) <thumbtack@FREEBSDjuno.com minus bsd> on Saturday April 27, 2002 @12:31AM (#3420018)
    Rumor has that they have even suggested a Logo [boycott-riaa.com] And have offered to fund TV commercials...with Ponch and Jon..

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

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