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Arprotek e-Cube/gBox Barebones Review 150

Posted by timothy from the not-quite-a-lunchbox dept.
Arnold writes: "I was doing some browsing on the net and came across an article that ViaHardware.com published. They are reviewing a cool P4 mini-computer system that is perfect for the serious LAN gamer. The system has an AGP slot and will even fit a GeForce 4 Ti4600. It also has a built-in handle. Now if only we could get monitors to be this size and expand out to 19-21"."
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Arprotek e-Cube/gBox Barebones Review More

Arprotek e-Cube/gBox Barebones Review

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  • But what about heat? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by mansemat ( 65131 )
    How well do these things deal with heat? Seems like they'd overheat, no?>

    First Post!

    • Cool (Score:3, Funny)

      by oliverthered ( 187439 )
      With somthing that small, it shouldn't be to hard to find enough liquid nitrogen to dunk it in. And all the vapor would breing great atmosphere to the games.
    • As stated in this and other reviews, heat really isn't that much of a problem beyond the psychological impact of constantly worrying about your expensive components. The P4 is designed to throttle, and the heatsink used in the review is a fairly good one (copper core with aluminum fins). It's got two fans plus the power supply fan up top, and the ribbon cabbles used were the round kind, so airflow seems to be adequate. I would host Slashdot with this, as hard drive heat would eventually become a factor, but for most uses it seems pretty safe. I think when they reviewed the Shuttle P4 box they actually tried overclocking, but didn't notice any difference one way or the other.
      • Ack, make that "wouldn't host Slashdot..."
      • I've got a 1.6 P4 in the Shuttle P4 running at 2.0 just fine, temp didn't even rise much at all. I know another guy had a 1.8 running at 2.2 with similar results. The fan doesn't even need to speed up to full speed to keep it cool.
        • Dell sells the Optiplex GX240 small form factor PC with up to a 2.4Ghz P4, and it's even smaller than these cubes- 3.6" x 12.5" x 13.9".

          I think they're competitively priced to these barebones systems. A GX50 SFF is under $600 (1.2Ghz Celeron, on-board video, 1 low-profile PCI slot). A GX240 with a decent setup for gamers is $900 (1.7Ghz P4, Radeon VE, 1 low-pro PCI slot, and 1 low-pro AGP slot if you toss the Radeon VE). Pricing gets outrageous if you want top-of-the-line P4s, but that's Intel for you. The only other problem is the limited selection of low-profile AGP cards, and you'd have that problem with any Flex-ATX system.
    • It looks real dorky. Needs more design work...

      Linux Bad, FreeBSD Good, Beer Good, Pussy Better.

  • BTDT (Score:1)

    by tps12 ( 105590 )
    Eh, built in handle? Pioneered by the Apple //c, IIRC.

    • Re:BTDT (Score:2, Funny)

      by DrSkwid ( 118965 )
      well done Apple for inventing handles

      Carrying suitcases around before then must have been such a pain
  • Most decent flat-panel monitors have a handle in the back (my 17" IBM does). Combined, it would make a very good LAN gaming machine. However, if you're using a CRT monitor, I recommend a GearGrip-CRT Monitor Carrier [thinkgeek.com].

  • wow (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    i believe they have powerful portable gaming units...consoles

  • 150W Power supply?! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Epi-man ( 59145 )
    That must be a typo, there is no way they can be running a P4 on only 150W unless it is a mobile, didn't seem to say so. That GeForce4 sure would struggle with such meager power offerings though...

    • Re:150W Power supply?! (Score:3, Informative)

      by mccalli ( 323026 )
      I think it's a mistake - the pictures on the site show a 150A power-supply, not W. And there's a clear "For Pentium IV" sticker on it.

      Cheers,
      Ian


      • 150A? Sweet mother of god! I guess they really do mean the "no user servicable parts inside" bit! You wouldn't want to get that up your arm...

        Of course, maybe it's not 150 anything...I couldn't get the picture up to check.

      • I think that's the model number: 1U150A
        Probably a 1U case power supply adapted to this case.

        I'm guessing the power supply will be the weak link...
  • What is so special with GeForce 4 Ti4600? I thought that you can plug any AGP video card into ANY computer with AGP slot.
    • Power usage and heat I'd guess, my geforce ddr gets boiling hot in my large tower case.
    • I believe the points were 1) the form factor of the Ti4600 will fit in this (the voodoo 5 will not) 2) you can put any AGP card, including a really good one and 3) timothy likes to mention cool video cards
      • Err -- the submitter mentioned the card. I have never owned a cool video card, with exception --to me! I know it's no longer cool) of the Matrox G400 which I bought last year but thanks to several SNAFUs have not yet installed. (It's in another state right now ;)).

        Since I don't have a dual-monitor setup, even that won't be as cool as I might hope ;) Maybe when LCDs come down a bit ... I don't want to buy any more stupid, heavy, bulky, awkward, space-hogging, back-breaking, desk-bending, headache-inducing, power-slurping, ugly-like-mold CRTs.

        Cheers,

        timothy
    • It's becuase the 4400 and 4600 are so freakin huge! Compare these:

      This [hothardware.com] is a 4600. It's Big.
      This [tomshardware.com] is a 4200. In the article they say the differences between boards. Enjoy.
      • Jeez, if you think that's big you should hunt up a picture of the old(? ~ four years ago) Quantum3D Obsidian X-24 card. Dual 12mb voodoo2 cards using hardware, integrated SLI, _on one card_. It was a _full length_ pci card. I had a normal sized pc case at the time and the damned thing just barely fit. (Maybe an inch of clearance between it and the drive bays.)

  • Specifications (Score:4, Informative)

    by Epi-man ( 59145 ) on Monday May 13, 2002 @11:30AM (#3510275) Journal
    From their beleagered web server:

    Specifications:
    Chyang Fun CFI-S86 Motherboard
    Pentium 4 Support
    VIA P4M266 Chipset
    DDR200/266 Support - up to 2GB
    ATA/133 Support - 2 IDE Ports
    Integrated Pro Savage DDR Graphics (ProSavage 8)
    2 Serial Ports
    4 USB 2.0 Ports (2 Rear, 2 Front)
    PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse Ports
    RCA and S-Video TV Out
    VIA AC97 Audio
    Front Headphone and Microphone Jacks
    Front Speaker Out Jack
    Onboard Realtek RT8100 LAN
    Infra-Red Support
    1 PCI Slot
    1 AGP Slot
    Aluminum Chassis/Plastic Handle/Plexiglas Side and Front Panels
    1 5.25" Bay, 2 3.25" Bays (1 External)
    (L) 306mm X (W) 212mm X (H) 242mm
    150W Power Supply
    2 40mm Rear Exhaust Fans

    Granted there is only two add on slots, but it still looks to me like a heavily overworked power supply on there. The P4 alone will consume nearly 50W. Add in some drives and all the other goodies and you are in trouble!
  • That's why I was glad when I heard that Microsoft Corp [microsoft.com]. was coming out with the X box [microsoft.com]. This console is compact, portable, and connects to any TV with RCA inputs. A much easier way to do LAN gaming, and when Return to Castle Wolfenstein arrives on the 'Box, I see very little reason to go back to the Dark Ages of PC gaming...
    • "I see very little reason to go back to the Dark Ages of PC gaming... "
      ...hahaha, that's funny stuff, dark ages of PC gaming? I have not owned a console since my NES, after my 286 I was hooked. If you prefer playing a console on your TV, either A: your nuts or B: you have a high resolution TV. I'd have to bet on A!
      P.S. Prolly not a good comment to post on a site such as this. Oh, and how many XBox LAN parties have you been to?

    • Re:LAN gaming is a big hassle (Score:4, Interesting)

      by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Monday May 13, 2002 @12:36PM (#3510595) Homepage
      I'll avoid the obvious bashing of pro-MS comments, since there are thousands of others who will take that on. But seriously, console over computer for a lan party? You can't play strategy since everyone else can see what you're doing (if you're all on the same tv...and if you're not, then a portable console is no good if you have to lug around televisions). And even if you're not playing strategy, why would you want to share a television screen with someone else for a fps or even racing? About the only good multiplayer you can have with a console is arena fighting, like Mortal Kombat, or something like Super Smash Brothers Melee, which is the best reason ever to own a console. Other than that, lan parties are the way to go.
      • okay, maybe the link to Microsoft's website was a little much. Anyway, LAN parties are a big hassle to me because:

        • Non geek friends are afraid to move computers

        • My apartment is too small

        • Someone always forgets something important

        • Windows may be having problems on any one of my friends' computers

        The PS2 offers networking through the firewire port. (GT3 supports multiple racers this way, and more titles are on the way). The Xbox has an ethernet card built in. 16 person Halo is great, even if you do have to share the screen. Much less hassle.

  • Mini-computer !?! (Score:4, Informative)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Monday May 13, 2002 @11:43AM (#3510339) Homepage

    Ummm so this is an AS/400 competitor then ?

    Sorry to be a pedant but main, mini, micro is the naming convention, and micro is where this sits. A mini computer with a handle is a hernia in a box.

    Wish PDA stood for Pico Device Architecture.

    However an AS/400 or top end Unix server would kick-arse as a LAN gaming station, 32 processors, 4 TB disk, 20GB RAM. Ummmm.
    • However an AS/400 ... server would kick-arse as a LAN gaming station
      Sure, if you could find a port of Unreal Tournament or Quake 3 or (game of choice) to the tn3270 "graphics" protocol... ;-) (Now, if you found a port for the game's server to unix, yeah, a nice smp unix box would probably scale to hundreds if not thousands of players if the code allowed that... (which, given the size of most levels, would be obscene))
    • However an AS/400 or top end Unix server would kick-arse as a LAN gaming station, 32 processors, 4 TB disk, 20GB RAM. Ummmm.

      This wouldn't be too far away if things go well with Moore's Law... (well, 32 processors might be too much but what about one that's comparable with 32 of today's processors?)

  • In my dreams.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by NorthDude ( 560769 ) on Monday May 13, 2002 @11:44AM (#3510343)
    I read "mini-computer" and I tought about the AS/400 on wich we were having our COBOL and RPG courses at school.
    Then I read "AGP", "GeForce", "Serious Gamer" and "Built-in Handle" in the following sentence.
    Which made me think that portable Games made on Java 3D could finally be real.
    I was seeing games which could run on my brother's box and play on my own Linux PC to.
    I was able to run JEdit and the GUI response was sooo fast.
    Open Office was taking less then 15 seconds to open my documents.
    It was so real, I swear...
    Then, I awaked in sweats and realized that it was only a dream...



    By the way, OpenOffice IS NOT made in Java, for those who would step to conclusion based on my writing...

  • Sites chugging along like Yoda on Prozac (Score:4, Informative)

    by cOdEgUru ( 181536 ) on Monday May 13, 2002 @11:52AM (#3510382) Homepage Journal
    Pros:

    Small - The CF-S868 is a small, powerful system. It is larger than the SS50, but it definitely isn't cumbersome at all.

    Performance - Mainly this is talking game performance and is due to the AGP slot. There is no doubt you can build a very fast LAN system with this box.

    Features - The CF-S868 is definitely packed with features, and comes with some good accessories. The sliced up IDE cables save space and make everything easier to work with inside. Though missing firewire, and not having the greatest sound or onboard video, it has Infra-Red and USB 2.0.

    Style - The handle on the CF-S868 not only looks cool, but is very functional and practical as well. The clear front and sides look good as well. The design is similar to the Shuttle SS40 if you have seen any of the images form CeBit of that case style.

    Noise - Thought it doesn't beat the SS50, the CF-S868 is a great system when it comes to noise. It isn't too loud, but it could use a bit more tweaking.

    Cons:

    Noise - The problem when it comes to noise is the included fan with the Arkua heatsink. It is quite loud, but can be replaced relatively easily.

    Sound - The onboard AC97 sound is nothing short of a disappointment. CMI or even Creative has better solutions than the basic AC97 codec.

    Video/Other Issues - This includes all the issues that I covered above about the video cards, as well as the problems I had with the front panel connector and the drive bay covers. Overall a well constructed barebones system, but there are definitely some oversights, especially with the missing standoff and screw which should be there to support the insertion of an AGP card.

    So who should go out and buy the CF-S868? Well certainly this is currently one of the best mini-systems you can buy right now for a little LAN box that is powerful. But it's not exactly cheaper than a full-sized system. Arprotek told me that the MSRP in the US for this system is $369. Contrary to this is the fact that some who have already bought this system have paid $400 or more for it. I haven't seen this system in any US retailers so far, so the price will be higher since you will have to have the system shipped overseas. Currently there are no distributors in the US that I'm aware of that carry this system, but hopefully they will be showing up soon for those of you interested. If you are interested in purchasing one, please click here to send an email and you will be given details.

    The CF-S868 may have issues, but they aren't a huge problem. You do need to consider everything before making a purchase, so look at the drawbacks and decide whether that interferes with your use of the system. It needs better sound and a good AGP video card. Both will have to be added to the cost of the system. If you want even more information or perhaps have other questions, feel free to discuss this article in the forums below.

    Also, personally I would wait to see what the competition has to offer before making a final choice. We know that Shuttle will be having a product coming out this summer with an AGP slot. Keep watching for the review here and we will be comparing both products. If the CF-S868 looks good to you and you need something soon, I don't have any major objections if you plan on using it for a LAN box and will add a sound card and AGP video card.

  • Is this the Eden board inside?

  • How is it possible to power a Pentium 4 system with a 150 Watt power supply? For desktop systems, Intel requires a *minimum* 300 Watt power supply. Granted, the Arprotek system doesn't have all the extra drive bays and expansion cards of a standard desktop system, but it does have an AGP slot and a PCI slot.

    I wonder what would happen if you added a high-end video card and a Sound Blaster Audigy to this mini system. My guess: random reboots. Doesn't the processor consume 50 Watts by itself. That doesn't leave much juice for the rest of the sytem *and* the expansion cards.

    --

    • How is it possible to power a Pentium 4 system with a 150 Watt power supply?

      Maybe not an 150W power supply (at least, not well) but here is an example of two SFX-format power supplies that are Athlon and P4 approved:
      PC Power And Cooling: Athlon/P4 approved SFX-format power supplies [pcpowerandcooling.com]

      If you don't know what the SFX form factor is, it's two specs for small form-factor power supplies. One is SFX-S, the other is SFX-L. One of the more famous (infamous) companies that uses SFX-L power supplies is eMachines.

      These power supplies put out 180W which is not great but will do the job if you don't overtax them. The coming ATI P4 chipset with Radeon-class graphics should thrive happily with this PS, and I already know two people running nForce motherboards with this very power supply in small form-factor cases. Sparkle also makes a similar Athlon/P4 approved power supply.

      PC Power And Cooling kicks ass. Great products, knowledgeable sales people, fair if not cheap prices.

  • shuttle press release (Score:2, Informative)

    by vasah20 ( 530238 )
    since via seems to be /.ed, let's go straight to the press release:

    http://www.shuttlegroup.com/ss50subpage.htm [shuttlegroup.com]
  • Seems strange, but I can't seem to find this box for sale anywhere in the U.S....I don't have the patience to wade thru the /doted via site to find more info, and google turns up very little in english... Does no one want my money?
  • *** Off-topic ***

    Slighty off topic i know but here goes anyways..

    I dunno if this box has em (/.'ed) but in the shuttle one of these boxes they use a pci riser card to put the pci cards parallel to the motherboard - i was wondering if anyone knew of anywhere that sold these separatly?? (im lookin for one to make a mp3 box in a shorter case)

    Puggs

  • Build your own projector! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SWTP ( 550956 )
    A few items bacck on /. is an article-thread on a DYI video projector. Now if you could combine this with that in one box.... :)
  • I had nothing but problems with generic motherboards. I originally blamed the problem on Windows but I noticed a big difference between Intel and Asus motherboards vs the rest of them. Shuttle chipsets like the one above have some known reliability problems. I guess this system is fine for a gamer and non 24/7 use but I would not want to run my main system on it.
  • Add a fire wire port or two, and you would have an even better system. I'd buy that.
  • I'll bet that "Feng Shui" motherboard is layed out to increase the energy and charisma of any character you play on the system....
  • Everyone has their pet peeve (reasonable and unreasonable) and mine is a stubborn absolute refusal to run Intel processors. Does anyone do an AMD version of the shoebox case or do I just have to sit here and get really pissed off?
    • Try the shuttle ss40 [viahardware.com].

      Unfortunately I dont think it is available quite yet, even though its sister the ss50 is available.

    • Shuttle has already announced plans to buid a "shoebox" computer (SS40) to support AMD processors.

      Specs are here [spacewalker.com]:

      • Again, my cry: Why the hell wouldn't you use a NVidia nForce chipset in such a machine? Those specs are a little better than previous versions, but still...let me show you an example of what this machine could have been:

        ABit: NV7M spec sheet [abit-usa.com]

        This is ABit's mATX version of the nForce motherboard. Compare and contrast Shuttle's spec sheet.Here's a link to someone who's used this to create a great little gaming machine...too bad this costs a premium...

        PCFX.cc: "XBrat" gaming bitty box [www.pcfx.cc]

        The first company who makes a bitty box barebones with the nForce at a reasonable price comparable to the Shuttle "shoebox"en and the ASUS Terminator will 0wn the LAN Party market.

    • And the follow up to the SS40 will be the SS41, with an AGP slot (SS40 doesn't have one).
    • Although not as small as this PC for just a little bigger you can get an ASUS Terminator [asus.com] and use an AMD Proc. Although, no DDR just yet... :(

      JOhn
      • I wish that ASUS had waited a little while and built this with the nForce chipset. VIA chipset...'nuff said. Also you get two expansion slots...that's it...two. One for the PCI video card you're gonna want to put into this to replace the cruddy onboard video, one for the audio card to replace the cruddy onboard video.

        At least with nForce you have onboard video and audio that is not only usable, but damn good. The Terminator's form factor would make it a perfect LAN party box...that is, if only it could be used that way.

        One other gripe about the Terminator...the ones they sent a local electronics retailer who shall remain nameless included a CD-ROM. If they included a DVD-ROM or a CD-RW it would have been fine. I would have had to remove the CD-ROM and use it for something else if I had purchased the thing. Thankfully it uses a standard bay so replacing it is no sweat.
  • Wasn't there a recent Slashdot article regarding a fold out lcd screen? you could have some sort of pocket on the side of this box to carry a folded LCD screen.

    Bah I can't seem to find the link.
  • I read this on forum so take it as speculative... SiS651 chipset/962 southbridge Integrated USB2.0, 1394 2 DIMM DDR200/266/333 400/533MHz bus support 6 Channel CMedia hardware audio "Heat Pipe" fan duct for processor Choice of two or three case designs 1 AGP slot + 1 PCI slot Same case dimensions as the SS50 The price for the bare-bones will be about $360US Available starting in mid-June?

  • i like my SV25 (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the Shuttle Spacewalker SV25, although somewhat of a noisy little beast, adequately serves and a nice desktop box... it has the same form facter as the SV24, and somewhat smaller form factor than the SS4X , SS5X, and box in the article...

    it includes P/S, PCI riser, mobo, CPU fin/fan, power cord, floppy, and IDE cables...

    what's nice is that everything on the mobo works well with Linux, including sound, Ethernet, USB, IEEE 1394 sensors, etc.... you can use a Via C3 CPU (such as the .13 micron 866MHz) without a CPU fan... the P/S fan is noisy however, but this is related to resonance of the all aluminum chassis, especially when placed on a desk...

    i use a combo DVD/CDRW drive, and a hard drive fits in the floppy slot underneath the CD-ROM (who uses a floppy anymore?)... i also stuck in an ATI TV VE Wondow mini-PC card and now watch TV in a separate desktop using xawtv...when i want to watch a DVD and burn a CD, i attach a VST Smartdisk FireWire external via the IEEE 1394 port, and the drive is bus-powered!

    the unit can take up to 1GB of RAM, but i find 256MB entirely adequate... i also used a 933MHz PIII in the unit (w/a CPU fan)... the CPU/Sys temps rarely go above 99F...

    the Savage video chipset works with the latest XFree86 release, but if you want to watch TV, download the latest savage_drv.o module from the maintainer's page - it will enable use of xawtv... don't know why the standard XFree86 release savage_drv.o module doesn't enable TV...

    there is an active group of users and modders... i have no interest in going to a P4-based box, as i don't believe there's a low-power CPU for the socket (the VIA CPUs are cheap, btw - in the $50 - $60(US) range for 800-900MHz chips...

    the SV25 is very nice and hits a sweet spot on price (about $220+S/H if you shop around)... if you have extra 370 socket CPUs, some RAM, an HD and CD-ROM, this is a cheap way to go...
  • I'll second the opinion that 150W power is just too feeble.
    Also, what's up with the onboard sound/video/tv out? Ick. Why bother putting crud like that in a system (minimal cost but still...) when anyone who's going to buy it is going to replace it.
    Finally - ONE 5" bay?
    No wonder I build my own....I'd rate this one about a 4 on the 1-10 scale, and 2 of those points are on the nice-looking case.
  • I saw a buncha of ya bickerin' that there needs to be more AMD versions available... While I agree, it seems this company has realized that and after a few click's you'd see this AMD version [chyangfun.com] of the case in this article.

    "I think there's a world market for about five computers." - Thomas Watson
  • Its not super 1337 to use but I've found that newer laptops with either the ATI Radeon 7500 mobility or the NvidiaGo chipsets and 1+ghz procs run all the games played at the lan parties I go to with plenty of speed. Toss in an external mouse and keyboard and you are set.
    • Laptops are more pricey. They don't have horses to run the newer high end games. I agree, laptops are coming down in price, and the graphics chips are only a generation behind the desktops.
      • I'll grant you that they are pricy, but not more pricy than a sexy super micro computer like in the article bundled with a LCD flat screen. My laptop was $1400 and I haven't found a "new high end game" that doesn't run well on it. Heck I even run dungeon siege (the newest hog of a game I know of) on it with no problems.

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