Post-it Notes vs. Copy-Inhibited CDs 843
rjoseph writes "MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac. Ouch." We mentioned this interesting experiment in consumer relations last month as well, but now it's getting noticed a lot more. However, emkman writes: "What was first thought to be an April Fool's joke, now appears to be true. Some Audio CD protection schemes such as Cactus DATA Shield 100/200, KeyAudio, and perhaps others may be defeated by invalidating the outer ring of the CD with a black marker or post-it sticky note. www.chip.de has their report in German, here is a translation."
Class Action Lawsuit! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Class Action Lawsuit! (Sign-Up Here) (Score:5, Informative)
If you are a U.S. resident (you don't have to be a citizen) and want to be part of a class-action lawsuit, go here:
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.submit.html [fatchucks.com]
after you buy a known corrupt CD (one with a red star next to it):
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html [fatchucks.com]
I will personally forward your info to the group of lawfirms who are already planning a class-action against the record industry. If you have any questions about this class-action or anything else, write me at chuck@fatchucks.com [mailto].
Peace.
Re:Class Action Lawsuit! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Class Action Lawsuit! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Class Action Lawsuit! (Score:3, Informative)
They may have an eject hole, but it isn't accesible. There are however other ways [apple.com] of removing the disk.
Oh no! (Score:2, Funny)
Punishment (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Punishment (Score:5, Funny)
No, this is your karmically-correct punishment for buying the Celine Dion CD...listening is its own punishment.
oh well... (Score:3, Insightful)
This explains how to get the drive to open... (Score:5, Informative)
I like the bit about the Warranty there (Score:5, Insightful)
So not only is the computer broken because you didn't see the fine print and tried to play a cd in it, but you have to pay for the repairs.
Re:I like the bit about the Warranty there (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it is broken because you tried to use a product designed to look like something useful (a trojan horse) but break your computer, sort of a hardware equivalent to a trojan horse. Imagine you plug in a monitor and immediately the big internal batteries deliver a huge voltage to your motherboard through the (onboard) video.
but you have to pay for the repairs.
What is certain is _apple_ does not have to pay for the repairs, as their product is not at fault. In the (farfetched) example above, would the computer or 'monitor' company have to pay?
Re:I like the bit about the Warranty there (Score:5, Funny)
Also, please note-- Automobiles should never crash, no matter what happens on the road. That's taught in every first year driver's education course I've ever seen, and it goes double if you are driving an expensive car.
Re:I like the bit about the Warranty there (Score:4, Funny)
Taking it too far (Score:3, Insightful)
Finally someone who realizes.... (Score:5, Funny)
For everyone saying "I don't like Celine Dion" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:For everyone saying "I don't like Celine Dion" (Score:2)
Re:For everyone saying "I don't like Celine Dion" (Score:2)
I do know that the Star Wars Episode 2 soundtrack is already circulating on AudioGalaxy [audiogalaxy.com]...
Re:For everyone saying "I don't like Celine Dion" (Score:5, Funny)
alt.binaries.mp3.soundtracks. 8*)
SealBeater
Only the UK version! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:For everyone saying "I don't like Celine Dion" (Score:5, Funny)
Then they came for Celine Dion, and I did not speak out because I'm lukewarm about Celine Dion.
Then they came for Episode 2, and I did not speak out because I'm not really a Star Wars fan.
But THEN they copy-protected that CD of "Richard Stallman sings Tom Lehrer..."
Re:Episode 2 CD (Jango Fett cover+Bonus Track) (Score:2, Informative)
Celine Dion does not meet Starcraft (Score:5, Funny)
graspee
P.S. This may have legal implications if my Starcraft CD starts downloading mp3s without my permission. (ha ha. sorry).
An analogy (Score:3, Insightful)
If someody were to develop some amazing new casette tape that didn't work on a subset of casette players, that would be okay. If that tape, instead, destroyed the player into which it was inserted by chewing up the playback heads, that would not be okay, even if it came with a label saying, ``Not for use on foo tape decks.''
Celine has done the latter.
b&
Legality? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sony should realize that they're treading on very thin ice here. They need to realize that some people have very sensitive information on their computers, and if it gets f*$&# because of their cd protection scheme.....
Sorry, but these dumb moves just irritate me
circumvention devices? (Score:5, Funny)
-schussat
Re:circumvention devices? (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, 3M is embracing this new product direction.
They have renamed their Post-It product line to Toast-It, making a clear reference to burning, or "toasting," a CD-R.
They have also renamed their popular Sharpie line of permanent markers to "Share-pie," indicating that the markers will enable purchasers to share music.
:)
Re:circumvention devices? (Score:3, Funny)
I am sorry for the problem(s) that I have written into my messages. Down here in Afghanistan, we can't get Sharpies or Sanford markers, so I have no way of knowing the correct brand that I should have put in my messages.
Please excuse this!
I now must go and watch my DiVXes on my C-64 and play Final Fantasy X! Also, I have a question about Linux on quad-processor machines. I hope you can help me!
Thank you!
Junis from Afghanistan
A good way to kill DMCA? (Score:3, Interesting)
You know, that just might be the ticket. Is there a way to tell a District Attourney that he should bring suit against somebody for illegal activity? Tip off the DA that 3M is marketting items which may be used as circumvention devices.
3M will bring in their lawerly guns blazing, and will throw lots of corporate resources at smacking on DMCA; we get our precident by making big business do our fighting for us.
Can something like this work this way?
(As a manufacturer of floppy disks, e.g., media which would be forced to have circumvention protection systems built in if CDTBPA (Is that the right 'nym?), etc, are passed, I'm sure that 3M is interested in getting rid of these laws...)
Re:circumvention devices? (Score:4, Funny)
Damn you and your superior legal system snobbery.
Re:circumvention devices? (Score:3, Interesting)
Unbelievable (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:5, Informative)
Apple has released KnowledgeBase Article #106882, Cannot Eject Copy Protected Audio Disc [apple.com], to adress the problem with the cd's getting locked into the drive.
"You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Some computers start up to a gray screen after a copy protected disc has been left in the computer."
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:4, Informative)
CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage.
How do you like them apples?
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:2, Insightful)
If [insert big-5 label here] made a CD that fell apart or melted in the drive, it wouldn't be apple's fault. This is no different.
S
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's not like that at all. Don't be a shithead.
You can't design a product with such a significant defect and then refuse to take any part of the blame.
First of all, the drive isn't an Apple drive. It's a Pioneer drive.
Secondly, this drive, and Apple's use of it, pre-dates these copy-protected CDs. You're trying to apply some standard of retroactive responsibility that just doesn't make any sense. Was Pioneer-- or Apple, by extension-- supposed to anticipate this particular event?
Thirdly, you can't possibly be suggesting that a drive that fails when you put something that isn't a CD in it is a defective drive?? What's your standard these days, that the product must never, ever fail under any circumstances? I mean, Christ! Did you actually say class-action lawsuit? What planet are you on?
Sheesh. Get some perspective, and stop digging up excuses to bitch about Apple.
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:5, Insightful)
Thirdly, you can't possibly be suggesting that a drive that fails when you put something that isn't a CD in it is a defective drive?? What's your standard these days, that the product must never, ever fail under any circumstances? I mean, Christ! Did you actually say class-action lawsuit? What planet are you on?
I'm damn well suggesting that a drive shouldn't fail when you put in something that is PHYSICALLY COMPATIBLE with a CD. Sure, I don't expect it to be able to handle a cheese sandwich or a sanding disc, but a correctly-sized piece of plastic should be fine.
As another poster suggested, if it's not logically compatible with what the drive is expecting, then the drive should either eject it or ignore it. It should *not* crash, and it should (*not*)^2 corrupt any firmware or do anything that can't be cured by a cold reboot.
I've had scratched audio CDs (being played as audio CDs, not being ripped) cause my computer to hang, because the drive did evil things to the IDE bus. That's just crappy engineering, like those "shopping cart" websites that read prices from a user-submitted form, or blindly pass user input to an SMTP client without stripping out escape sequences. In the real world, programs and devices need to perform sanity checks on their input, and fail properly when they're fed junk. The only reason we let the firmware people get away with it is that it's very hard to examine their code.
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:3, Insightful)
This just leads back to the question, is it the CD maker or the CD drive maker who is at fault? Both I think. The CD maker for not making their CD to specs, and the drive maker for not having a product robust enough to sensibly handle an invalid data format on the CD. I mean really, it should just do nothing....not wreck the whole damn machine.
The drive isn't failing (was Re:Apple Responds w/ (Score:5, Informative)
The drive isn't failing. It's doing what it's suposed to do. It's reading the equivalent of the boot sector of the CD, and attempting to boot the software on the CD. The software on the CD is then doing deliberately malicious things to the computer. Any computer that's capable of booting or automatically running software from any media is vulnerable to attack from what is in effect a boot sector virus.
It does seem to me that Sony are sailing very close to some legal winds here. It would not seem to me to be so much a problem if the automatic-load-and-go program opened a window on the Mac screen saying 'this disc cannot be played on Macintosh computers', but this deliberate malicious damage seems to me quite serious.
Mind you, it's arguable that anyone who buys a Celine Dion record deserves all they get...
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:3, Informative)
Daniel
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:3, Funny)
No one's getting killed.
That's all.
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:5, Informative)
You have got to be kidding me. Are you a troll, or what? That kind of wildly disproportionate comparison casts your whole post in an unflattering light.
Pioneer - for engineering a drive where it is possible with the wrong combination of bits or read errors to completely lock the drive and ruin the firmware.
First and most important: the idea that these CDs are ruining firmware seems to have come from the mind of one sloppy reporter at MacUser UK. I quote from the (f'ing dreadful) article:
"As we reported last month, Celine's latest offering - A New Day Has Come - features copy-protection to prevent it being played and duplicated in a PC, and that same copy-protection was believed to be capable of damaging the PC's firmware. It seems that this is definitely the case, as once the CD is inserted into a new iMac it cannot be removed and the machine cannot be restarted."
(Emphasis mine, obviously.)
The actual fact is that the CD, once inserted, cannot be read by the Mac. If you try to reboot the Mac, something-- the OF boot loader, or something-- gets wedged trying to read the CD. Hell, maybe the drive is wedging the bus or something. Point is, if you can get the CD out, your Mac is just fine.
To remove the CD from the Mac, reboot, and hold down the mouse button during the boot chime. The Mac (actually Open Firmware) then spits out the CDROM and boots normally. This has been true since long, long ago. I think I remember getting a bad floppy disk out of a Mac 512K or SE that way.
If, for an unknown reason, holding down the mouse button doesn't work, then yeah, the drive has to be removed and the CD manually extracted. A person has to twist the eject cog with a tweaker or whatever. That's what the (f'ing dreadful) article was referring to when it said that the computer may have to be sent in for repair. Just for the record, I haven't heard of any instances firsthand where holding down the mouse button during power up failed to eject the CD.
So in summary, the idea that these CDs are ruining firmware is complete, total, utter bullshit. So let's just drop that one right now.
Apple - for engineering a machine with a soft eject and no aesthetically-challenging hard backup. Mr. Jobs, would a pinhole really have offended your out-of-wack perfectionism that much?
I'll say it again: it's a fucking Pioneer drive. Apple didn't design it. They didn't build it. And they didn't decide whether to put an "eject" button on it.
So then why not a hotkey during boot to eject the media or similar?
Apple has published [apple.com] not one but three non-mechanical options for getting the CD out, including the hold-down-the-button trick. The hold-down-the-button trick is very well known among Mac users, and all three of them are documented thoroughly. The fact that you are unaware of them is not evidence of negligence on Apple's part.
God, I can't believe you got so up in arms with so little information. At least get a little information before flying off the handle next time.
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:3, Interesting)
When Apple picked this drive out of hundreds to put in their systems, they assumed responsibility for any obvious designed-in defects. And the lack of a manual eject is definitely a design defect...
Re:Apple Responds w/ KBA (Score:4, Insightful)
Er. *deep breath*
I'm sure that neither Apple, nor the various third party vendors of 8cm optical disc media devices that provide Apple with drives, expected that someone would design a disc that appears to be an Audio CD but actually has trojan horse code on it intended to confuse the drive into nonoperation.
I can't fault them for that.
It's not that this copy protection system presents a few wrong bytes. It's intentionally designed to confuse the hell out of the drive, rendering it inoperative so it cannot "rip" the disc. In the process, it seems the copy protection vendors and the record labels forgot that a wide number of computers out there don't have an accessable hardware-based eject button.
Oh, well. Sony definitely lost a sale to me in this case. I'm not buying the Episode II soundtrack if I can't transfer it to my iPod.
How? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How? (Score:2, Insightful)
You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not.
The point here is that these *aren't* CD's. It may look like a CD, smell like a CD, and quack like a CD, but these -things- don't conform to the Compact Disc standard. If they're still putting a Compact Disc logo on these things, I think consumers have a right to be torqued.
Re:How? (Score:3, Interesting)
Or, regardless of the logo, if retailers are selling them as regular CDs or even intermingled with CDs.
This is a nasty principle... (Score:5, Interesting)
We will intentionally cause damage to your property because you did not try to play this in an authorised CD player
I think all those affected now (and more probably in the future with CDs other than Celine) should send a nice happy bill to the corporations that produce these CDs...
Not being a legal person, how can a disclaimer cover something designed to intentionally cripple hardware? Sure you can say in a disclaimer that "it *may* do blah blah blah" but that's a whole lot different to "If you have X this CD is designed to damage this hardware"
... And I also doubt that the disclaimer is in a very prominent position either...
As someone who buys CDs and owns an iBook, I'm not looking forward to the day I pop in a decent CD I've just bought (sorry, Celine fans) I don't want to discover that I can't get the damn thing out of my lappy easily...
-- Dan >:(
New Names (Score:5, Funny)
CC - Crash Circle
"CD" - Quote-Compact Disk-Unquote
ICD - Imposter Compact Disk
FD - Fool's Disk
ID - Incompatible Disk
SF - Sony Frisbee
CC - Celine Coaster
MW3 - Mommy, Why Won't it Work?
RCD - Record Companies Downfall
18POS - $18 Piece Of Sh*t
SLS - Sony's Last Stand
PD - Poo Disk
Any suggestions?
I'm reminded of a Simpsons episode (Score:2)
As I'm sure everyone remembers, the aliens are found out but then say something to the effect of "What are you going to do about it with a two party system." And so they elect one of the aliens...
Moral of the story: If you don't like copy protection, don't buy the damn cds! It's that simply.
What to do (Score:3, Insightful)
When it gets stuck, try to get help from the sales people, but try to do it with a straight face, OK? Now you will probably have to leave it there, but make sure you talk to the highest up manager before you do.
Research on the internet how to eject the disk and come back the next day to get it.
This might work best if you bought the CD in the same store.
Buy CDs or download MP3... (Score:5, Insightful)
The music publishers are giving people incentives to NOT BUY CDs...
Re:Buy CDs or download MP3... (Score:5, Insightful)
>computer... but if I download the same mp3s, I
>don't have to worry about it messing up my
>computer...
Very true. So more people are going to download MP3s. Then, 6 or 9 or 12 months later the RIAA comes back and says: "Look at this! CD sales have dropped even more, and pirated MP3 downloads have increased. We told you that we needed better copy protection. Maybe _now_ you'll believe was when we say that we need hardware copy protection." Congress will say, "We're terribly sorry - we'll never doubt you again. We'll force the CBDTPA/SSSCA/whatever it will be called through right now. Take that, pirates!".
To combat this, people should go find these CDs, and (assuming they don't have labels stating they can't be used in a computer); buy them; attempt to play them; and then return them. Then the RIAA can't say sales have decreased, and hopefully, someone, somewhere (other than geeks) will realize that copy protection on CDs simply isn't going to work.
What about these allegations of crappy sound? Has anyone tried returning a CD because it sounded like shit (because of the audio data itself, not the content) Did they accept the return?
Someone please call the English Police (Score:5, Funny)
Somewhere a 4th Grade English teacher is crying, and doesn't know why.
Poor i-Macs... (Score:5, Funny)
Everybody stock up on Sharpies! (Score:5, Funny)
Local busineses were shocked today when all 2.5 million office supply stores were simultaneously served with a cease and desist order from the RIAA and MPAA banning the sale of any type of felt tip marker. Lobbyists for the media industry successfully bribed and/or threatened a number of local politician, who in turn passed legislation banning the manufacture, sale, or possession of any device on grounds that it violates the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
"This is a great day for freedom in this country", stated I. P. Freely, chairman of the House Committee On Media Graft and Campaign Finance. "No longer will reckless hoodlums and terrorist be able to hold our great media industries down! Already these 'media terrorists' have been implicated in causing a downturn in music sales, a deepening of the U.S. recession, balding, impotence, and dandruff. These terrorists are a threat to the very foundation of this nation. Have I said terrorist enough yet? Terrorist terrorist terrorist!"
A small group of bewildered secretaries and office workers were rounded up by jackbooted thugs and herded into "terrorist containment vehicles" (which resemble black vans) as they went into office supply stores in downtown L.A. to buy Sharpies. "Obviously these media terrorists were bent on destroying Sony Music with these devices", said one S.W.A.T. team captain as he twirled a Sharpie in front of cameras. "Don't worry folks", he said, "you're safe now."
When interviewed on the street, many people expressed delight at the actions of the MPAA and RIAA.
"I'm so glad that these hideous terr'rist folks have been rounded up", says Eva Beaver. "Who knows what they might've blown up with their terror weapons. Next it could be planes slamming into buildings!"
Opposition to this new law is expected to be light, say prominent Washington lawmakers. Naysayers will be rounded up and shot on sight, further adding to the desire to keep people from pirating music and movies with felt tip pens.
Spokesmen for Sanford, the company that manufactures the Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapon (formerly known as a Sharpie Marker) could not be reached following a disastrous fire and explosion at every single one of their manufacturing plants.
Can't play it, but I can rip it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Greedy businessmen... (Score:3, Insightful)
Then there's the junk going on about them safeguarding the CD's so they can't be played on a computer. Personally, I'm not the richest person around, and I can't afford a CD player seperate from the computer. I lodged my money into this thing about two years ago, and continue to do so, thinking "Hey, I can play my CD's on here, and write my papers, etc., rather than drive up the electric bill (damned prices last year for electricity...) with two seperate Watt-Guzzelers, as I call them. So, I saved some money there, right?
I ended up buying a few cds the other day, after listening to them on the radio. I pop in the Lord of the Rings OST, remembering fondly the music that scared me in the movie, and waited for it to load. Instead of my lovely music, I get a webpage with a bunch of ads I don't want, and no auto-start on the music. So, naturally, I checked to see if the files were missing or something. Sure enough, they've been 'protected' against use on a computer. So, I wasted $18, and I still haven't listened to the thing once.
Now, they're making the computers crash on us, just for fear of 'stealing' their 'hard earned songs' (even though most of them are just rewrites of old classics). Next thing you know, they'll ban CD-Roms. --;
Yup, permanent damage; nope, Apple won't cover it (Score:3, Interesting)
http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/
The note suggests a number of things you can "try" or "attempt" which "may" solve the problem.
The telling part is the last paragraph:
"If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility."
Re:Yup, permanent damage; nope, Apple won't cover (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot geeks can rant and rave all they want about these horrible booby-trapped 'discs', but the outside world must respond for anything to happen- either endorsing the legitimacy of the 'discs' or rejecting it.
Well, this is a start.
Playing these things on an iMac means basically voiding the warranty. If, God knows how, the corrupted and intentionally damaging 'disc' manages to actually kill the iMac, Apple says it is your fault for trying to put booby-trapped, intentionally destructive junk in the machine!
This is a GOOD thing, and I hope other computer manufacturers do likewise. I wouldn't have believed that such a thing could kill an iMac, but note this: iMacs ARE BOOTABLE FROM CD. It seems possible that these 'discs' could contain something like a boot sector, to trick the machine into trying to boot off the 'disc' and then munging its BIOS. Viruses have been able to do stuff like that for years and years- this is simply the first time the RIAA has made a concerted effort to destroy people's computers.
Apple cannot possibly take responsibility for this. They're doing the right thing- staring in shock, and then quickly announcing, "We will not be held responsible for interoperating with THIS BULLSHIT!"
I say support Apple for this stance, don't criticise them. Or do you feel that computer manufacturers should now be held responsible for maintaining interoperability with VIRUSES?
Who knew.... (Score:2)
But I dont HAVE a fucking STEREO!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Why have a TV/Stereo/DVD/VCR/whatever when you can have it all in your PC?
Ah, wait, if you spend a boatload of cash on huge, clunky, technologically outdated devices such as a TV or a 1x CD player, Big Business is happy. And since the government is just for show and it's actually BB who's running the place, the "consumers" really have no choice - fork over your cash time and time again, or live like a peasant in the Dark Ages, with no comfort at all.
I'm sick of this. Where do I point my gun at to get my God-given rights?
Since they're all trying to label us as terrorists I say shoot the bastards and earn the title!
Way to eject CD on new iMac (Score:5, Informative)
PPA, the girl next door
watch out following translated instructions (Score:4, Funny)
"Then schtick ze blow torchen up your assen-holen, and ge-crank that mutterfikken all ze way uppen-leder-hosen."
Insist on Genuine Compact Discs (Score:5, Insightful)
So here's a way we can fight back. When you are buying your CD's, always insist on CD's bearing the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo.
This does two things:
* Any copy-protected disc that bears the CD logo may be in technical breach of some law, such as misleading and deceptive marketing, and you can possibly sue the store and record company on those grounds (IANAL) or make a formal complaint to some regulatory body such as the FTC.
* It lets the store know that there are people who prefer genuine CD's instead of that crippled copy-protected rubbish. Once you buy the CD, it's your right to do with it as you please, provided you do not infringe on the copyright owners' rights to redistribute the music.
Re:Insist on Genuine Compact Discs (Score:3, Interesting)
Simply refuse to buy these non-CDs (Score:5, Insightful)
Just don't buy the CDs.
Or better yet, buy them, open them, then take them back to the store and complain that they don't work. If the store will only offer an exchange, take the exchange and bring that one back too. Just keep doing this until they learn that they do not work.
The stores can't put them back on the shelves, they have to ship them back to the distributor. I guarantee you when 25% of their stock comes back defective, someone is going to start to notice what a really bad idea this is.
Hmm, I work right next door to a Best Buy. I could buy and return a CD every day for lunch. Might be kind of fun.
Hole punch... (Score:5, Funny)
Magic markers to avert copy protection schemes... I love low-tech solutions to high-tech problems.
Obligatory AYB bit... (Score:4, Funny)
In A.D. 2002, War was beginning.
Mac Hacker: What happen?
User: Somebody set us up the Celine Dion Not-CD
Programmer: We get signal
Mac Hacker: What!
Programmer: Main Screen turn on
Mac Hacker: It's You!
R.O.S.E.N.: How are you gentlemen?
R.O.S.E.N.: All your CD-ROM drive are belong to us.
R.O.S.E.N.: You are on the way to destruction
Mac Hacker: What you say?!?!
R.O.S.E.N.: You have no chance to hack make your time
R.O.S.E.N.: HA HA HA HA....
Mac Hacker: Take off every Not-CD
Mac Hacker: You know what you doing
Mac Hacker: Remove Not-CD
Mac Hacker: For great justice
Just protecting my rights... (Score:5, Insightful)
but...
If I create something that resembles an email message, but really just uses the email message format to carry a harmful digital payload to damage your system, I'm just an evil hacker who's likely to be spending time in prison.
Yup. Makes sense to me.
Technical document translation (Score:5, Funny)
- They find the line distant up to two centimeters from the outside edge. Draw now with the pin a tangential line, which covers the dividing line accurately, into which outside range project, but does not affect the last audio TRACK. A sticking tire helps as ruler.
I followed these directions and my Celine Dion disk is now stuck in a tire heading east on I-10 at about 75 mph. I feel better already.Try the result out. If it did not fold, the line covers either the dividing line not completely or lies over the last audio trace - here geht's around tenths of a millimeter. Then you wipe away to the pro copying bars with a damp speed and correct after.
Does that mean black markers are forbidden now? (Score:3, Funny)
And remember, kids... (Score:3, Funny)
Celine Dion kills an iMac.
Please, think of the iMacs.
Many conflicts of interest... (Score:3, Insightful)
First of all, Sony begins using this copy-protection scheme by forcing it's children-companies to begin putting it on their "CD"s. This is apparently an attempt to prevent ripping of said "CD" tracks into MP3 or other digital media files. On the other hand, Sony is one of the larger companies who are currently making hardware to play "legitimate" MP3s, such as the Sony MP505 mini-disc MP3 players, and others.
Now, how does one go about using their Sony MP505 to play MP3s from their new Sony-parented "CD"? I mean, I understand that the MP3 players are just to jump into a market where money is to be had, but still, this seems like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
First of all, as has been stated many-a-time, the patent holder of TRUE CDs should sue the pants off of companies that are creating discs that do not conform to standards, but still market them as CDs. Perhaps the official CD logo is not there on many of these CDs, but do the record labels make any statement that these are not truly Compact Discs?
What other devices might these not work in? Some items made for the computer-oriented user that has a more CD-ROM style interface than a standard CD interface? What about MP3 players that use CD media to play MP3s, but also can play audio CDs? What about a device like my Apex AD-3201. that uses a very standard DVD-ROM drive attached via an ATAPI interface to a decoder? If not these discs, will others that are soon to follow cause problems here as well?
Perhaps I am not technically inclined enough with color book standards to understand what causes the current problems in iMacs, and why there may not be other problems here and there... but I know enough to be mildly concerned about this.
If someday I purchase Star Wars Episode II on DVD and pop it into my Apex (with region encoding and Macrovision turned off), and my DVD and mainboard firmware become damaged... I'm going to be particularly upset.
Does anyone have a webpage up yet that lists not only known discs with this protection, but also known devices, SPECIFICALLY, which will fail and how? Just curious if maybe the full impact has not yet been felt or noticed.
-Xepherys
Does any responsiblity lie with the retailers??? (Score:3, Insightful)
A warning on the packaging and on the disc itself is insufficient for two reasons that I can see: 1) It would NEVER occur to the average consumer (who's only just figured out that thing isn't a cup-holder) that not only is a CD not a CD, but that it could 'break' their computer. Yes, I've seen the explanations that the hardware isn't really broken, but we ALL know that the average user isn't technically aware, and things must be kept VERY simple.
Reason #2) The packaging is not always available. I just hopped over to CDNOW, and there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on the page to indicate this is not a CDDA disc. It is listed in two formats: CD and Tape (and the CD is still more expensive than cassette, go figure)
Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
So, could anyone take time from the flamewar .... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but people are posting a lot of drivel here and I'm getting tired of it. Mod me into oblivion for saying this, but one of the main points of this story remains unexamined.
What's up with that?
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:5, Informative)
The new iMac doesn't have any manual way to do it.
Oh of course. All you have to do is dismantle the computer and void your warranty to get the CD out? Man, some people are just whiners!
mark
Not a big deal, folks... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not a big deal, folks... (Score:3, Insightful)
Note the culprit, folks... (Score:3, Informative)
SONY.
Sony, Sony, Sony.
Now do you understand why I fsckn can't stand them????
If there is an Intellectual Property fracas, 9 out of 10 times Sony's right in the middle of it. Burn in Hell, Akio Morita!
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:2)
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not, it's Pioneer's (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple really isn't to blame, except maybe for buying drives with poorly written firmware.
The drive manufacturer is at fault here--it should not be possible to cause damage by inserting a disk in the drive. Really, the copy protection is only a disk that is corrupted in a specific way--the drive should have been designed to fail gracefully if the disk is corrupted.
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:2)
Hold the mouse button down (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:3, Insightful)
"Sure! C'mon, if you put our gas in your car, it's absolutely trivial to drain the fuel system and use non-protected gasoline; you'll just have to get that from...uh...er...somewhere else.
But there's no permanent damage or anything..."
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:5, Informative)
Apple knows [apple.com]. You have three non-pull-apart options.
DMCA says it's a felony to fix your Apple ... (Score:5, Funny)
Apple knows [apple.com]. You have three non-pull-apart options.
[options deleted]
Well, let's see...
The crud they put on the disk locks up the Apple when you try to play it. Thus...
This is "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying.
Breaking your computer is part of the correct operation of this technology, so
Fixing your computer is "circumvention" of "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying, a felony under the DMCA, and
Apple's post telling you how to fix your computer is "trafficing" in circumvention technology, also a felony.
Quick! Call the FBI! (And ask Adobe for the phone number of the appropriate person to call. B-) )
Re:Didn't the original post say you CAN'T reboot? (Score:3, Informative)
The MacUser UK article that inspired this thread is simply terrible. And yeah, it said that the CDs in question would leave the Mac unable to boot. But what was meant was that the Mac would be unable to boot all the way up to multiuser mode successfully.
In order to force-eject the CD-- using two out of the three methods, that is-- you only have to get the Mac up to Open Firmware. That's all in hardware, so the presence of a bad disc won't affect it.
Seems like most people don't even know that they've got a really sophisticated boot PROM underneath their Macs. Hold down cmd-opt-O-F (that's "oh" and "eff") right after powering on some time to see how it all works.
Re:Oh for goodness sakes! (Score:5, Funny)
Or perhaps you need beat the living shit out of the fuck-heads who cavalierly take it upon themselves to fuck with your hardware. Then kill their extended families, burn down their houses with their corpses inside, and piss on the ashes.
Or that paper clip thing might work too, I don't know.
Re:But who listens to Celine Dion anyway? (Score:2, Funny)
I hate to stereotype, but at the risk of doing so, I'd wager that Mac users are more likely to listen to Celine Dion than otherwise.
Pooling from all of the computer users I know - if that's any decent demographic - Linux users would most certainly not fall under the Celine Dion fans. Windows users, it seems, tend to be more alternative, pop, rap, ad nauseum. And finally, Mac users are more oldies, soft rock, etc. This of course is NOT any real indication of what people listen to; not science, just my own personal observations generalized.
I've never seen a person sing "My Heart Will Go On" while recompiling their kernel.
-X
Re:Old news again (Score:2)
Re:DMCA (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Be careful (Score:5, Funny)
To hardly seize: With a simple felt marker you outwit Sony Music & CO and notice your right to a backup copy.
Take that Sony Music & CO, I hardly seize you with my simple felt marker and notice my right to a backup copy! You have been outwitted!Re:Be careful (Score:2, Funny)
Make your time!
Re:Getting Back at the Mac (Score:2)
Re:Drives shouldn't do this, anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
A more fitting analogy would be if you sold rat poison pellets that looked just like jelly beans. Saying "well, if you read the fine print on the box, you would have known that they were rat poison and not candy" wouldn't cut it as a defense when you get hauled into court.
Re:Drives shouldn't do this, anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, it would be fine for the drive to not play these discs. Since they're invalid, there's no reason they should work. But they shouldn't be able to damage the drive or the computer. I bet the car cd players don't make the car swerve wildly. And, if they did, I'm blame the car manufacturers more than the disc manufacturers.