How to Build The Perfect Home Theater PC 274
Ian Bell writes: "We have just updated our HTPC guide to include some new parts for building the perfect home theater PC. We scoured the net and talked with various manufacturers to find these hard to find parts and components. This includes a new component width black anodized aluminum case complete with reciever sytle legs, a fold down front door and front USB/FireWire ports. Add to this an ATi AIW Radeon 8500 DV, DVD-RW/CDR-RW drive and Dolby Digital sound and you have the perfect HTPC. Check out our guide for complete system specs pictures and links to where you can find these hard to find parts. This system replaces your DVD player complete with HDTV and progressive scan support, Tivo or Replay TV and TV guide." Update: 05/26 23:44 GMT by T : Helstein writes with another All-In-Wonder based approach, his 1U Multimedia Station.
Beamer (Score:1)
Noise!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Noise!!! (Score:2, Informative)
If you really don't like the noise try a Via C3 proc. Fine for this simple work, runs in standard HW and doesn't need a fan.
headphone solutions (Score:1)
Two solutions as far as "limiting the audience" though:
1) Wireless. Buy either one transmitter and multiple headsets (if they come that way for the model you choose) or multi sets of both, stick the extra transmitters in the closet as a hedge against murphy's law. They're anything but free, but they're getting reasonable nowadays, and if it's mostly you and a couple of friends, would not cost that much. When the neighborhood comes over to watch LotR on your home theater you can worry about more external sound
2) If the wires aren't going to be too much of a problem, you can use a (wired) headphone distribution amp. Good ones (studio grade) can be pricey, but like most things in the world of musical electronics, the *high* end is not where you even want to look unless you really know you want to be there, and there are often perfectly decent ones sold for less.
(http://www.taiaudio.com/right/sales/salescatal
Headphones have some big drawbacks, too, but for some circumstances, look really smart.
And if you're handier than me, there are a lot of DIY projects for building your own distribution amp on the web.
timothy
Re:Noise!!! (Score:2, Informative)
fun with fan motors and noise (Score:3, Funny)
Take the power supply fan and remove the c-clip holding the shaft. This clamp is hidden behind the manufacturer's sticker and can be removed with a pick. Pull the fan from the motor and note that the shaft fits right into the dremel tool. Good for +100mph blasts. The pull is very strong, so it might be a good idea to mount the beast securely.
If *that* wasn't enough, the jet speed mod is to increase the fan speed far above 30,000rpm's. Simply weaken the field current to the dremel's motor. This increases the motor's magnetic slip; even though available torque is reduced, its speed can be increased to the point of self destruction. Since its air cooled, why worry about the motor overheating?
I forgot to mention, its a good idea to remove the heavy magenet from the fan. If the assembly breaks due to forces generated, there may be significant property damage and bodily injury.
Re:Noise!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
This system being mainly for video / dvd, etc wouldnt need much more than the entry level cpu (think 1.1ghz - 1.4ghz even that's overkill).
Noise comes from needing an Athlon with some monstrous 6000rpm fan to keep it cool!
Sigh... (Score:1)
/.'ed already.
Re:Sigh... (Score:1)
Remember: A sufficiently bad programmer can write COBOL in any language.
TANJ it already suffers from the "Slashdot Effect" (Score:1)
ttyl
Farrell
slashdotted in 8 minutes. what's the record? (Score:1, Redundant)
Not worth my time to read (Score:1)
So... (Score:1)
Eh. Probably some favourable DVD characteristics of the drive then.
Re:So... (Score:2)
I can't read the article, but I wouldn't consider it a "real HTPC" without the ability to record programs to VCD. A VCD holds a good hour at ~VHS quality.
It isn't too slow to stream to (even at 2x, think about it) but it would be complicated. For starters you'd need to be able to re-enc MPEG-2 to MPEG-1 in real time, sync audio, etc. Plus you have all the black magic that goes into making a CD which is best done as a batch.
But no matter, record to disk and dump to CD later.
-Peter
Re:So... (Score:1)
How about as a way to dump those PVR streams off of your hard drive? TiVO et al don't really have a satisfactory way to time shift permanently (a la VCR), and a CD-RW on this thing would fill that gap. Maybe it would be better to pick some sort of re-recordable DVD format for size reasons, but there is no standard format and the DVD-ROM you buy may not play them back anyway. Anyway, a CD-RW should be large enough to hold plenty of video at a resolution that would match VCRs (might need two disks, but that's okay because you're not burning as you record -- you don't have to be home to swap disks), and those slimline jewel cases are much easier to store than big bulky video cassettes.
Sorry... (Score:1, Redundant)
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Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at
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It crashed Netscape, but IE held up. Still, you might want to stop watching your cool home video system and get back to programming again!
The article copy-n-pasted... (Score:3, Redundant)
---
Ever wondered if you could integrate your computer into your home theater system? Well it might be easier than you think. Come join us as we attempt to build an HTPC. From choosing the parts to building the actual system and reviewing it through a series of articles. Stage one of the HTPC (home theater PC) project explores the advantages of building a HTPC, which parts we would pick at a first glance and why.
I have often toyed with the idea of putting a computer into my family room and hooking it up to my home theater, but due to the lack of parts and an acceptable chassis design, I have repeatedly chosen to pass up this opportunity.
Computer cases are large, bulky and usually lacking in colors, while my home theater equipment is all black in color and match a rack-style size format. Computer DVD playback has been marginal at best often sporting an s-video output. With HDTV on the market and most new televisions sporting HDTV capability, why use a computers DVD playback with S-video resolution when you can buy a progressive scan stand alone DVD player which would support the televisions capabilities?
What we're talking about here is integrating a special PC computer into your current home theater, in effect, a Home Theater PC (HTPC). Similar to a stand alone DVD player, this computer will use your current receiver's decoder as well as other components of your home theater like your television and speakers. This is not a system review, just a project we are working on here in the labs. Build at your own risk especially as we've not yet completed our own. Look for a full review on our HTPC soon. We will let you know just how well everything works, whether it's worth the price and whether or not the technology is here or too ahead of its time.
atc600gx1 While I was looking at Trendetronics web site I noticed that they had a computer case that looked very similar in style to that of a home receiver. It is made out of black anodized aluminum, had round legs on it with a strip of gold, a fold down front panel that could hide any drives and front USB and FireWire ports. MAde by Cooler Master, this was the perfect HTPC case. Priced at $249, you still needed to purchase the computer components. The Cooler Master case requires a Micro ATX motherboard which could be tough to find with a full sized AGP graphics port. There are various Micro ATX motherboard on the market at the time of this article the motherboards that stood out to me where the ABIT BG7m Intel 845G chip set P4 478 Micro ATX motherboard, ASUS P4B533-VM Motherboard for Intel P4 478 with optional SPDIF and 5.1 channel AC3 sound and Smart Card
This was the base system of our HTPC system and there was some hardware upgrades that still had to be done. In order for this computer to play DVD movies in progressive scan format using HDTV signals, a video card with these abilities had to be found.
The first company that came to mind was ATI Technologies, famous for their All-In-Wonder (AIW) series. The newest incarnation, the AIW Radeon 8500DV recently came to market. This new video card is simply amazing in its feature set and performance. It has 64mb of video memory and uses the new Radeon chip for excellent graphics, and is a great foundation from which to base a full-featured multimedia video card.
All-in-wonder
While NVIDIA sells chips to be used in "Personal Cinema" product lines, they are not as full-featured as the offering from ATI. The AIW Radeon has hardware DVD decoding, Dolby 5.1 output using your receivers decoder, an RF remote control, Component video out put for HDTV support, two IEEE 1394 Fire wire ports, TV tuner, Hardware IDCT Acceleration for DVD its feature-set is complete down to the RF remote. If you want to download movies via camcorder, use the fire wire port. If you want to record your favorite TV show each week, use the built in Digital Video recorder software. Want to watch progressive scan DVD movies in HDTV format? No problem. You can even monitor your home using the security software and by hooking up extra cameras to this system. So after installing the ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon card, I stillLogitech Freedom needed to install a FireWire/USB 2.0 Combo card. Iogear makes a FireWire/USB 2.0 combo card with two FireWire and USB ports in the front and one internal port for each format on the back of the card allowing you to run a cable to the front USB/FireWire ports on our HTPC case. Depending on which MicroATX motherboard you go with, you could also run an internal USB cable to one of the front USB port on our HTPC case.
To finish off this HTPC I need to find a good Wireless keyboard and optical mouse. I quickly headed over to Logitech and found my answer, the cordless freedom optical. This keyboard was larger than what I was looking for, but had all the controls on the keyboard I needed so I would have to compromise. One touch buttons that controlled e-mail, media player, internet browser, volume. The mouse was both wireless and optical so I did not have to worry about having to clean out the mouse ball and using it on a mouse pad. The great thing about the Logitech Freedom keyboard and mouse is the fact that it uses an RF technology. So even at a good 10 feet away, the keybaord and mouse still work. Remember that the ATI All-In-Wonder has a remote control as well, so I am not restricted to a keyboard and mouse for controlling the movie playback.
There are many other benefits of having a computer integrated into the home theater. Music and MP3 storage and playback through your home theater, surfing the internet with your family on the family room television set, streaming videos and media content for everyone to see on the television, streaming internet audio through your home theater is pure Digital sound.
So let's break down the features and benefits of this system:
- Industry-leading DVD playback with AC-3 Digital Audio output to enable Dolby® 5.1 surround sound
- DVD recording with the included DVD-RW/CD-RW drive
- HDTV support
- Dolby® digital stereo audio output (S/PDIF)
- Two external IEEE 1394/iLink(TM)/FireWire® ports, one internal
- Hydravision(TM) software enables you to display information on a TV and monitor at the same time
- RF remote Control
- Stereo TV tuner with 125 channels
- TV-ON-DEMAND
o Pause live TV or record live broadcasts and watch them later
o Get instant replays of favorite programs
o Click through the transparent live TV window to access your desktop - no more moving the TV window to get to your work!
- Use the integrated Gemstar GUIDE Plus+(TM) Interactive Program Guide1 to view and search TV listings by category, actor/performer, or date. Schedule and record programs at the click of a mouse - all the benefits of a Personal Video Recorder without the monthly fees
- Amazing TV features including:
o TV Magazine* - images and text from TV programs allowing you to read and archive TV programs
o Hot Words* - real-time notification when selected words are detected in programming
o Zoom & pan - zoom in on the action on-screen and choose your own close-ups
o Intelligent Teletext on your PC**
- Digital and analog video capture & editing
- MP3 storage and playback through home computer
- Wireless Keyboard and Mouse with one touch controls
- Streaming internet music through your home theater
- Surf the web using your television, for the whole family to enjoy
- Play state of the art videogames using the 64mb Radeon video processor
So in conclusion, if you are interested in integrating your computer into the home theater, you will have many options to choose from. The hardware and software are there and there are a number of case colors, sizes and designs to choose from. We simply chose what we felt was a sleek system for those that care about design. While I would price the system we built at just under two-thousand dollars (about $1900) the advantages are enormous. You would have one unit to replace your stand alone DVD player, VCR, DVR, and home computer. The advantages to this include future expansion. Want a newer video card? Simply replace the one in there. Want a larger hard drive, augment or replace the current one.
In my opinion, the HTPC will soon be the new trend in computing. Upgradeablility adds enormous benefits over pre-built systems and with a plethora of parts to choose from on the market, why wouldn't you build a top of the line HTPC system?
If you are interested in purchasing a system like this, I have included links to the manufacturers and their products for further information.
ATI Technologies
Trendetronics
Logitech
By Ian Bell
Staff Writer, Designtechnica.com
January 15, 2002
MySQL/Slashdot Slashdotted a MySQL site (Score:2)
Re:The article copy-n-pasted... (Score:1)
Re:The article copy-n-pasted... (Score:2)
Do you mean the "best" way, or seriously, the "only technically capable" way? For one, computer monitors are pretty dang small, so I would definitely rule it out for parties.
Rear projection HDTVs can do well, and are progressive scan.
Presentation video projectors that have more resolution than an anamorphic DVD can be easily had as well. It works a lot like a computer monitor, generally with the same 15 pin RGB connector. I bought one and I get decent 150" diagonal picture out of it, so I can get more than one or two people to watch a movie at a time.
Down within minutes (Score:1)
I just wanted to see if they picked my software for MP3 playing (or whether it was a Linux only article).
Small plug (Score:2, Interesting)
The other "insider" resource to check is Home Theater Forum [hometheaterforum.com].
DesignTechnica or other "PC Enthusiasts" sites can't even scratch the surface of what a true HTPC needs to have, and the varied solutions, etc. that go along with it. Not flaming, just telling the truth.
Re:Small plug (Score:2)
he only place the REALmagic cards stand out is in color saturation--which is a plus if you're going to be using a big projection system, but it comes at the cost of a lot of detail.
I spent a lot of time comparing all the Windows software players I could find, and the old REALmagic H+ card which I own, and the newer one which I saw at a trade show, and even the old Mpact hardware DVD card I got out of an old Gateway. The fact is, the REALmagic cards don't even have as much detail as the old Mpact card, which came out IIRC in 1997 and whose maker went bankrupt. I think the REALmagic cards are using hardware smoothing--which would make the picture look better on a standard-res NTSC TV, but which results in a huge lack of detail in HD resolutions when compared to the other solutions.
So, if you *really* care about the best quality, get the ATI card.
TIMOTHY, Timothy, timothy... (Score:1, Funny)
Off topic, can't get to site, so who cares? (Score:1)
Is there a record of this somewhere. It seems to me it would be a very interesting read for a lot of people. Things like which ISP, software, etc.
If I can't get to the site, why bother to read the comments?
Re:Off topic, can't get to site, so who cares? (Score:3, Informative)
There are two ways to slashdot a site. Either it has too little bandwidth to handle the rush of visitors, in which case it slows down to the point where most attempts fail before a connection can be made. Or the server, due to a large quantity of dynamic processes takes too long to run the individual processes and runs out of available physical ram and starts thrashing, which just slows it down more, until the point that the box is useless. Of course, both issues can contribute to the problem.
There are several ways to avoid these problems. More bandwidth always helps, but reducing the amount of data per page to send is cheaper and easier. Stipping down the images and gzipping the html source helps immensely. Use static pages wherever possible, especially for the homepage. Limit the total number of connections so that a fully loaded server won't exceed your ram limits. Better to deny access to some and let others through, rather than destroy it for everyone. Keep your dynamic processes fast. Mod them into the server if possible. The less time they run, the less time they allocate ram.
All that being said, if you're going to submit your site to slashdot, you better be ready for the slashdot effect. None of this is new to anyone who visits here on a regular basis. WE all know what happens, so should they. They could have loadtested their server beforehand.
-Restil
Dump the ATI (Score:5, Informative)
This advice is for a Windows-based system; I don't have any experience with *nix drivers for the ATI cards.
Re:Ati Tuner Linux drivers?(was: Dump the ATI) (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Ati Tuner Linux drivers?(was: Dump the ATI) (Score:1)
I started back in '94 with a Creative Labs Video Blaster. Nice card. No tuner, but that's what the spare VCR is for. Then, when I upgraded my computer to the point that the VB was no longer compatable with it, I got myself an ATI-TV card. (my main video card was ATI, so they interfaced together). I think the image was a tad blurrier, but otherwise not too shabby.
Then, when I upgraded from that P2 box to a more modern Athlon
(and yes, all 3 cards work in Linux, though it took quite a while before the ATI-TV got it's support written)
Re:Ati Tuner Linux drivers?(was: Dump the ATI) (Score:1)
Hmmm try maybe dscaler [dscaler.com] to do some deinterlacing(on max options it can look impresive).
Re:Dump the ATI (Score:2, Informative)
How about non-perfect? (Score:2, Interesting)
I've just bought a new house (previously we rented), and I'd like to the use the TV-out on my GeForce (MX 'cos I also wanted DualHead), SoundBlaster Audigy 5.1 Surround Sound (just above middle of the line), and Hauppauge WinTV Go (the bottom of that line) to provide music and video downstairs. The PC is (PCs are) in the back upstairs room; I have everything except the cables and downstairs speakers.
Now, I'm not an audiophile, just a nerd; I was just a tiny little bit shocked when I saw that audiophiles are willing to pay (presumably) EUR 400 per metre of cabling (those are the prices asked second hand in NL! Gold links, silver wire sure, but still!).
My question: the multimedia components I have are not too expensive and replaceable if they aren't good enough. What to go for as far as cables and speakers are concerned is harder, the sites for audiophiles recommend somewhat too expensive stuff.... Suggestions please!
Re:How about non-perfect? (Score:2, Informative)
Speaker wise just use what you have for now. If you like how they sound then I'd say stick with them. If not visit some stores and see how much you have to pay to be able to hear the difference and go from there. I bet that unless you have a golden ear you won't hear too much of a difference without spending way more money.
Re:How about non-perfect? (Score:1, Informative)
As for speakers - that's a huge can of worms that probably shouldn't be gone into here. FWIW, I found that for my layout, amplification, ears, and budget, kit from NHT was my favorite (SuperTwo mains, superzero center, side, and rear channel, Super2 sub, powered by a Denon 3801 and a 120W monoblock for the sub).
Oh, and yes, there's an HTPC there as well
Re:How about non-perfect? (Score:2, Informative)
In our studio we use Klotz [klotz-ais.de] for signal cable on the desks, with connectors from Neutrik [neutrik.com]
Here's the *REAL* place to go for good info! (Score:5, Informative)
If you really want to know what cooks, check out the Granddaddy of A/V Forums [avsforum.com] and look in their Home Theater Computers [avsforum.com] Forum. There are two threads in particular of interest:
HTPC FAQ [avsforum.com]
Best in Class HTPC Component Listing [avsforum.com]
FWIW, ATI has given a prerelease driver to one of the AVS Forum's most prominent members for testing and he claims the gamma correction problem is fixed in that driver. Who knows when the drivier will be released and if it will be even remotely stable...many of their most recent drivers are pure, unadulterated fecal matter.
Re:Here's the *REAL* place to go for good info! (Score:2)
"Component video out put for HDTV support"
Show me where I can buy this today.
They DO NOT DELIVER this today. I know, because I bought the card with that in mind. It's a supposed option that's been anounced for months now (like > half a year) and nothing has transpired.
The last time I bought ATI.
How about REAL HDTV? (Score:5, Informative)
Slap an HDTV PCI card in there, and get true 1080i (1920x1080) HDTV. They also HD PVR functions, and some even do DVD decoding & scaling in hardware.
Check out the MyHD Card [digitalconnection.com], the HiPix [telemann.com], or the AccessDTV [accessdtv.com] cards for options.
Unfortunately, none of these (that I know of) support Linux. The MyHD is the newest, and the HiPix has an open source effort to enhance their Windows software.
If you live in an area that has digital TV broadcasts [titantv.com] (most major cities do), HDTV is the way to go.. there is a LOT of HD Programming [hdtvgalaxy.com] available.
How do you silence it? (Score:1)
The question is, in addition to adding sound-dampening rubber and/or foam to the inside of the case, what are some really nice and quiet (silent) fans? The heatsink fan is relatively quiet, and since it's just a Celery 1.1ghz, it doesn't need much of one... but the case fan is a bit louder and should be sacked.
-Ececheira
A real solution (Score:1)
Or two if you want to do timeshifting.
Re:A real solution (Score:1)
Projectors? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hi guys. I've been wondering something for a bit. Would someone tell me why people dumb huge wads of cash on these big plasma screen displays when they could spend a coupld of grand on a decent digital XGA projector and project the picture onto a screen/wall at 9 feet by 6 or something like that?
Just curious... That's what I'd do if I had any money.
Re:Projectors? (Score:1)
Re:Projectors? (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is, with digital projectors, they are noisy (big fan to cool the lightbulbs in em) and the bulbs tend to be expensive when they burn out.
Of course, you would also need a big flat, matte white painted wall to project onto, etc.
There are major Home theatre heads who do have such setups, but usually the project is in a projection room, with a double layer of optical class to project through.
Also, don't forget, that with a projector behind you, you would have to change your entire cabling setup (because everything was in front, plugged into your TV, remember?) so everything is behind you. After someone has dropped a few hundred (thousand at times) on cables, getting the speakers setup JUST right, its a pain to move everything around. A Plasma TV is something you can put in place of your TV, get an image just like from your projector, but without the hassle of having to setup a projector.
(and then there is an entire other issue of which tvs can provide true "blacks" etc.)
Re:Projectors? (Score:3, Interesting)
Projectors win in cost and screen size.
The NEC LT150 [lastrange.com] is down to $2500 [ibuyer.net] versus the average plasma display at $5000+, that $2500 or so price difference can buy your HTPC too.
And what's a few cables to us Nerds.
Re:Projectors? (Score:2, Informative)
As for flat white wall, they work but a screen is really preferred. Da-Lite makes several pull-down wall screens with surfaces optimized for different environments (Hi gain retro-reflectives, low gain reflectives, gray screens to improve contrast, etc). Cost starts around $150 from online vendors for a 100" diagonal screen.
Video cables do cost money, but if you use a home theater receiver with high quality video switching you can get away with a single S-Video run to the projector if it has a high quality internal scalar (ie Faroudja DCDi chip).
The issue of 'true blacks' is still something of a problem. But some products using TI's newer 12 degree chips are achieving contrast ratios of 1800:1 (vs. the average number of 400:1 for your typical LCD these days). 1800:1 is getting quite close to what is needed for these digital projectors need to seriously challenge CRT basedprojection units for image quality.
For more info, check out www.avsforum.com and www.projectorcentral.com.
Re:Projectors? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Projectors? (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that the lamp needs to be cooled by a lot of air, but the projectors enclosure only allows a very small fan, maybe 40 mm, to feed the air, so it has to run at unbelievable speeds.
I've been considdering getting a nice XGA projector myself, ever since I tried using one to project a 135" image onto my living room wall, but I keep seeing two problems:
1) The price; but that can be overcome by saving up for it.
2) The noise. I've been considdering building some kind of airduct for it, using a large low/no noise fan (120 mm) to feed the airflow from outside my apartment; I just need to figure out how much air the small fan is able to move, so that I can replicate that.
Re:Projectors? (Score:2)
Obviously one of the things you have to do before spending 2000+ dollars on a projector is test it in the store; basing your buy only on other peoples recomendations isn't really a good idea in my book - not when dealing with that much money.
Getting a projector with decent settings is also a must; being able to set simple stuff like trapezoid and orthogonality is necessary for me, since I'm not a handyman, so any shelf I make for a projector is bound to be off center by a couple of yards
Ambient Lighting (Score:2)
Because, on a sunny afternoon, you won't be able to see the projected image. You'll have to either get European style metal blinds you can lower to block out all sunlight (afternoon if you have west facing windows, morning if east facing, both if south facing), or only watch TV at night.
Having said that, I agree that plasma panels have abysmal resolution. That is why I opted for a 24" LCD monitor (Samsung SyncMaster 240T) instead. It cost half as much as the plasma alternatives, gives me 1920x1200 resolution, and works as an awe inspiring monitor when I'm sitting at the computer, and an excellent (if not gigantic) TV when I'm lounging in the couch across the room.
The plasma's, or even better, giant LCDs, will interest me only once they are capable of 1080i or 1080p and can be driven digitally by my computer as my Samsung is now. Unfortunately there is a very good chance the media cartels will cripple high resolution, big flatscreen technology so that general purpose computers cannot drive these screens (hdcp copy protection schemes, etc. embedded into the dvi interface, for example), which, if it is ever actually implimented, will likely condemn consumer HDTV products to the same fate as consumer DAT recorders.
Keeping it quiet (Score:1)
A better RF remote (Score:2)
I have both the ATI AIW 8500DV with its included RF Remote, and the MouseRemote, to control my PC in the next room. The MouseRemote I have almost no trouble with; the ATI remote frequently makes me want to hurl it across the room in frustration (I haven't yet). Let me list a few pros & cons:
X10 MouseRemote
- Pressure-sensitive directional pad (the ATI remote is 8-way fixed speed), which makes it much easier to click on small buttons. This feature alone makes it worth buying.
- Left & right mouse buttons placed on the back side of the remote, which makes them quite a bit easier to use.
- All buttons fully programmable via MaX10 [sourceforge.net] software that can send macros, hotkeys, window messages, launch apps and a lot more (the ATI has a few "programmable" buttons that let you select a function from a fixed list - no arbitrary hotkeys, no app launching, no macros). This is the other deal-maker feature.
- More buttons for controlling a range of devices, programs etc.
- Doubles as a universal pre-programmed IR remote (ATI is RF only).
- Doubles as an X10 controller.
ATI RF Remote
- Comes free with the ATI 8500DV (US$49 separately).
- Already set up for controlling the ATI apps.
I bought the MouseRemote first, back when it was only US$25, which was a no-brainer. I got the 8500DV later (for its other features), but quickly discovered the MouseRemote was considerably more useful.
High Definition HTPC (Score:2)
So what am I driving at? For those lucky enough to have a high def capable TV there is a better solution if you want to integrate a computer. Don't try to replace reasonably priced components that will far out perform a computer (like a DVD player or PVR) instead get a vga -> component transcoder. Transcoders will work with any video card and/or operating system provided you can modify the scan and refresh rates. The best part is that you can run your computer at high definition resolutions! UT at 1080i anyone?
All is not lost if you don't have a high definition capable tv though. If your TV has component inputs and your video card is capable of outputing an interlaced signal with the proper scan and refresh rates you can use a transcoder instead of using a card with TV-out for higher image quality.
There are several transcoders available ranging from $100-300. Copper box [copperbox.com] sells transcoders from Audio Authority, Key Digital and RCA. Avsforum [avsforum.com] has lots of discussion in its HTPC forum regarding customer resolutions and scan rates.
ATI component video output dongle (Score:2)
However, it's not available yet. Promised for "2002". I'm still waiting...
Re:High Definition HTPC (Score:2)
This is not correct. Software dvd decoding in its current state is equal or superior to just about any hardware solution save for the obscenely expensive. However, there is not htpc solution that equals a commercial pvr, which is why I own a 140 hour modded TiVo.
Re:High Definition HTPC (Score:2)
Personally I've yet to see a TV-out on a consumer video card that delivers a very clean image. This isn't to say they can't/don't exist, I just haven't seen one that looked particularly good on anything other than a 13" TV.
Even with a video card that delivers a strong, clean analog signal, unless it supports component output. At best it's only going to outperform the most budget oriented dedicated DVD players.
Re:High Definition HTPC (Score:2)
Creative Audigy (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Creative Audigy (Score:2)
I built one two weeks ago (Score:4, Interesting)
Time spent putting it together and tweaking the hardware: 20 or so hours.
Am I happy/satisfied? Fuck yeah.
Re:I built one two weeks ago (Score:2)
Re:I built one two weeks ago (Score:2)
Re:I built one two weeks ago (Score:2)
The Case (Score:4, Informative)
I believe they are referring to the Cooler Master ATC-600 Series [coolermaster.com]. That site doesn't mention anything about it being available in black though.
There is a review and pictures of it at http://www.hexus.net/review.php?review=281 [hexus.net]
Build a case out of an Apex AD-1200 DVD player? (Score:2)
So, if you could replace their circuit board with a small motherboard, you could turn the Apex DVD player into a mini-PC. You would have to drill out a bunch of holes in the back, or buy a cheap ATX case and chop it apart and use it to hold the motherboard and provide the connector holes. you would also probably need a small PC power supply.
I haven't gotten past the "hmm" stage with this one yet, but it has possibilities.
The big problem would be keeping heat down to a reasonable level. Maybe go for a low-heat or underclocked CPU, and do the decoding on a Hollywood Plus card?
Jon Acheson
Why doesn't a PC company build an HTPC? (Score:3, Informative)
Now imagine if Gateway or Philips or Apple or Toshiba just pre-built an HTPC system, with workarounds for the most annoying compromises that enthusiasts now have to make. These compromises include: Inappropriate cases, noisy fans, terrible RF interferance from badly shielded D/A converters stuck inside the case... and worst of all, terrible, incoherent controls.
It seems dead obvious to me that since there are RF remote controls and also RF optical mice, there should be an RF remote control/mouse. You know, laser on the bottom, buttons on the top, plus two big "click" buttons at the front and a mouse wheel. Doesn't it just seem like an obvious step? So why isn't it out yet?
Next, there needs to be a universal media player which plays by default in "full screen" mode and has the same controls for TV play, PVR playback and the playback of other video media (either on the hard drive or elsewhere on the LAN). Every feature of the media player would be controlled by the remote. For example, the "Pause" button would pause whatever was playing, be it a DVD, live TV or a video file. Next, there would need to be a flexible file browser which is actually usable at the very low resolutions available on a TV. Its default setting would be to show only playable media files (and it would be able to scan the entire network, not just the living room HD).
There. That's it. Everything else is already available. Granted, to design the remote might cost a bit, but all the technology in it is already very mature. It's basically a mouse/remote frankenstein--not terribly fanciful. Making an appropriate case would not be hard. Finding a manufacturer for the right graphics card would not be hard. Shielding the audio D/A converter to meet audiophile standards would not be hard (at worst, you'd have a break-out box). Writing a pretty interface for a file browser would not be terribly labor intensive, especially if you basically just skinned Konqueror. God damn. I wish I owned a hardware company. I'd make them rich!
Somebody, please hurry and do this before the CPTCBATOA or whatever bill passes, rendering this sort of thing illegal.
Re:Why doesn't a PC company build an HTPC? (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.macosrumors.com [macosrumors.com]
You can choose to believe what you want (and these rumours sites are notoriously unreliable), but it has been pretty well documented that Apple is working on something along these lines.
This would not be the company's first foray into the market. Apple history buffs out there will remember the ill-fated MacTV:
http://www.lowendmac.com/500/mactv.shtml [lowendmac.com]
Re:Why doesn't a PC company build an HTPC? (Score:2)
Here's a picture of it [gateway.com].
It even has/had a mouse with what you are describing, and a 36" VGA monitor. Cool stuff.
Re:Why doesn't a PC company build an HTPC? (Score:2)
Re:Don't look for Apple to do this. (Score:2)
Bzzt. Thanks for playing A necessary component of stealing is that the person having been "stolen" from must be deprived of the item. Unless one goes and takes the only copy of the source code from the author, he hasn't "stolen." Calling copyright infringement stealing is a propaganda device from the real thieves, the "intellectual property" cartel, that rob future generations of our heritage.
Okay, here's what I want. (Score:2)
Now... has anybody done this? I admit I've done -zero- research into how I would accomplish it, and have only been day-dreaming/brainstorming at this point. Is it really feasible to just copy the UDF filesystem stuff off a DVD onto a generic filesystem (ext2, ext3, ReiserFS, XFS, whatever) and play it back via something like 'ogle' for Linux? I can imagine coming home, firing up the TV and using my DVD remote to navigate my own custom menu to pick from the various DVDs that I have stored away on a server sitting in the next room over. Now, if I ever end up -totally- loaded I'd have an EMC Symmetrix in the basement with every movie I ever wanted on demand.
And no, I don't want some compressed DivX
How to do good quality on the cheap (Score:2, Informative)
NEC LT150 DLP projector - this baby is sweet. Cost me $2300, does 1024x768 progressive of course, vga input. Currently doing 110" diagonal on a 16:9 screen.
Da-lite no-gain screen: hanging from the ceiling, 110" diag. 16:9 ratio. Simple. effective. $250.
15' fat shielded vga cable: $26
HTPC: 512mb RAM, pioneer 104s slot load 10x DVD, PIII-500mhz, powerDVD 3 or 4, win98, vortex2 soundcard, moded GeForce2 AGP card. This baby is cheap (maybe $500 today?) Can pass DD5.1, DTS, etc through the optical out on the soundcard. Screw hardware DVD decoding, it looks like crap. powerDVD3 looks beautiful. I removed/shorted the 9 RF capacitors and inductors on the geforce2 that limit the video bandwidth, this reduced any pixel shimering and crawlies (look at your video card near the vga connector). Result: quality.
Felted the room black: $60. Ok, this is a batchelor pad, so no one cared that I did this. Good for audio acustics, and reduces stray lighting from the screen or anything else in the room.
Notice the PC is used ONLY to output the video in VGA form and audio in digital form (AC3, DTS). no other processing or expensive soundcard is necessary on the PC.
Technics DD/DTS/PCM Decoder: 3 digital inputs to switch between PC, CD player, and any other input (PS2, digital cable, etc). Great job, better than any soundcard's DAC. Used: $170, retail $350
Carver AV 505 5-channel amp: built ford tough in the US of A, does 80 watts pure minimum into 5 channels, 130 watts max (or so the specs said). For tweater and midrange only, this goes a long way. Used: $350, retailed $1000
Paradigm Atoms: great speakers for the price. $190/pair. Were the fronts, now the rears.
paradigm CC-170 - center channel, $200 (I think).
B&W 601 S3: awesome speakers, these are the new fronts. They don't match the center, but oh well, they sound amazing. $450/pair.
Velodyne CHT120 - 150 RMS, 400 watts max power in a 12" sub. $550 retail.
speaker stands: 5x$50 each, double spiked. Assorted cables, etc.
Anyhoo, this got me a sweet assed-setup, and it's pretty good quality. The only way to get better video qulity is go with a 3-chip DLP.
like another poster said, avsforum.com is the place to go. Sound on the projector is minimized when ceiling mounted (esp. when the room is covered in black felt).
Details, thoughts:
This will get you the best audio/video (IMHO) for the price. The PC was built from scraps practically, so the main cost was GOOD speakers, amp and projector. Spend the most money going from the output and fewest dollars in the input. IE, best speakers, good amp, decent DAC, any digital soundcard, $20 DVD.
When using interconnect cables carying analog, buy good quality, when using digital cables, use anything that conducts electrons.
There is a difference between quality and volume.
Don't get a home-theater-in-a-box. They're cheap for a reason.
Buy components that you can swap out for better stuff w/o compromising the rest of the setup. Think modualr programing.
Get the AVIA or similar calibration disc to setup A/V levels. There's nothing worse than a good setup that's out of whack.
Buy your amps, dacs, and other hardware used, but buy new speakers. you never know how hard they've been driven.
That's all I can think of. Looks great. Sounds great.
sorry... but why??? (Score:2, Insightful)
Cripes... I was just at Best buy today... they have the top of the line sony DVD player with progresive scan, every possible video out you could want, every possible audio out you could want (INCLUDING DISCREET 5.1 analog audio) AND play SACD's for less than $300.00.
sorry... but anyone that would want to use a pc instead of a DVD player for their home theatre is either a complete moron or just likes to do things so his friends will make comments...
I have an "Ultimate Home-Theater PC" (Score:2)
It is powered by a lowly 233MHZ MMX Pentium CPU. Of course, all of the MPEG decoding for DVD and audio processing is handled by dedicated hardware so the CPU isn't involved for most operations and in fact for the most part it sits idle.
As for the PC part, I would be happier if it DIDN'T have the PC part. Trying to use it as a PC on a 32" monitor isn't all that great, since the monitor is only capable of 800x600.
I have yet to see another unit with similar capabilities. What I like about the line doubling support is that for DVD it is all done in the digital domain, without any analog between the MPEG decoder to the RGB output. The line doubling also looks great with video from other sources, without the usual line doubling artifacts caused by bob-and-weave line doubling.
As for the graphics card in the unit? It uses a Trident graphics chip which is fed video by a Genesis line doubler chip. A good video card is not necessarily a good graphics card since the two do very different operations.
DON'T GET A VIDEO PROJECTOR! (Score:2)
Interesting DIY project (Score:2, Informative)
The c't S.V.P [heise.de] - the Sound and Video Platform [Article in German, use the Fish]. Plays music CDs, MP3 and other compressed formats, VCD, DivX:-), DVD (5.1 sound), is a digital VCR, CD burner/copier, surf terminal and E-Mail client (built-in LCD), remote-controllable and practically noiseless. This is the *AAs nightmare, cool
The only drawback I can see is the price - it's basically a full-featured PC with a TFT display, which is still quite expensive.
The S.V.P is windows-only for now, but c't is working on a Linux version. It would be cool if this could be made into a community project with translated documentation; it deserves to get better recognition worldwide.
$1900 is way too much (Score:2, Insightful)
I picked up one of these http://www.mikeshardware.com/section_pcprojects/d
And there you go. Not exactly an audiophile's wet dream but perfectly adequate. Plays MP3's through my Technics receiver and Klipsch speakers and they sound great. While it doesn't have a DVD drive it plays DIVX rips flawlessly. Nobody can tell the difference. I can always add a DVD drive but I don't buy DVDs so why? It plays all my MAME games wonderfully. It even runs GTA3 but the on board video can't really handle 3d graphics that well (ATI Rage). Big deal I've got a real computer for that.
Opera running in full screen mode is perfectly readable. You can zoom in and out easily. As for recording video, TIVO is far superior to software PVRs so I'm not going there yet, but I suppose I could add a USB vid cap device.
All in all, most of the functionality for 1/4 the price. A great little MP3 jukebox, DIVX player, and Classic Video Game machine.
Anyone who drops $1900 for an all in one stereo component box at this stage will be disappointed simply because the software to integrate all that functionality doesn't exist yet. And if big media has their way, it never will legally exist.
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:1)
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:1)
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:1)
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:2)
eviltypeguy makes a good point here.
As I already pointed out in another post in this thread, we are trying to make a HTPC and we chose Linux as our platform because of the flexibility.
Linux gives you flexibility because you can change a lot. Because of this you can custumise existing applications to your HTPC needs.
wanna help us make a linux based HTPC? (Score:2)
It's been a slow month for davedina development because we had to work on some other stuff, but some new volunteers would be a good incentive to get us back going.
Re:wanna help us make a linux based HTPC? (Score:1)
Thanks!
What dogmatic tripe. (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, why not? Because of your OS dogmatism? Sorry, but not liking an OS for philosophical reasons is one thing, and perfectly understandable. But saying it can't be made into an HTPC when it clearly and demonstrably can is ludicrous.
I don't have a dedicated HTPC, but I use my PC for all purposes, including as an HTPC. It uses an All-in-Wonder series card under WindowsXP, and is rock-solid stable. I use it not just for playback of DVD, VCD, DivX, Quicktime, and older video files in a variety of codecs not even explicitly supported by Crossover on Linux, but also for TiVo-like MPEG and MPEG-2 video capture and Guide+ functionality. It flawlessly plays back all these formats on my TV. The fact that it does so using WindowsXP does not disqualify it from performing--well, from performing the dfunctions of a "real" HTPC and many more.
The fact that it runs under WindowsXP is something I consider to be an advantage because it handles old and obscure video formats and codecs which Linux is unlikely to, and new video formats which are likely to have Windows and Mac support long before they have Linux support. That is unfortunate, but it is just the way things are and likely will be for several years to come.
Another great advantage of using WinXP as the basis of a HTPC is that complete, functional, no-command-line-needed playback and recording software is available from a variety of vendors. This is important because, when I finally get around to building a second PC dedicated to HTPC/TiVo functionality, I won't have a keyboard connected to it like I do my present jack-of-all-trades box. A true HTPC should work seamlessly like any other multimedia component, and should therefore be fully controllable by remote. This precludes using many Linux packages, many of which are unusable without keyboard access. In contrast, many companies offer polished Windows software which is easily controlled by remote.
This is especially true of the software that comes with the ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500 series cards--which also come with the best PC remote control ever, which is integrated well with their software. Seriously, nothing exists for Linux which is in the same league as this software and hardware combo. That is unfortunate, but it is a fact. Indeed, nothing else in the Windows world comes close either. But don't take my word for it; see for yourself here:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1609 fine. But I'm a pragmatist who just wants to se his damn movies without any fuss, and I do.
Whoa! Bugfest. (Score:2)
Anyway, those missing paragraphs were about the fact that in my pesonal experience ATI's tweaked Cinemaster DVD decoding software is the best quality out there. It produces a more detailed image with more detailed color than any of the other DVD decoders I've used, and that includes my hardware REALmagic Hollywood+ DVD decoder board. The REALmagic H+, PowerDVD, and WinDVD all produce inferior image quality and color depth. It's doubtful that any Linux DVD software produces a picture as good as that produced by ATI's DVD player, since it is so far superior to even anything else available on Windows and on Windows there are many choices. The only rivals to ATI's DVD software are likely other packages which also use the Cinemaster decoding engine.
And even though ATI's player is region-limited, there are numerous software hacks for it which make it region-free. I have many Region 2 discs, like the copy of *DellaMorte DellAmore* I just watched earlier today. (Mmmmm, Anna Falchi naked in full PAL DVD resolution...) ATI's DVD software isn't the slickest, but it's the best-quality, and uses the ATI cards' excellent iDCT assist to great effect.
At any rate, you can be a dogmatist and refuse to use the best HTPC/PVR hardware and software on principle. That's fine. But I'm a pragmatist who just wants to see his damn movies without any fuss, and I do. To see what's so great about the A-i-W cards for HTPC and PVR enthusiasts, read a few pages of this:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1609&p=
Re:What dogmatic tripe. (Score:2)
Seriously, I need to agree there. I'm a big linux zealot, but I admin windows and mac machines at work as well as the linux stuff. I've recently been setting up a multimedia guy with an AIW Radeon 7500 (no need for the 8500's added features), and the software is *really* cool. I wish ever so badly that I coul dset up a linux system with similar features and abilities, but it'd be a big pain in the arse, and I'd have to write a bunch of the stuff myself because it just doesn't exist for linux.
There's something to be said for trying to make stuff work the ideal, philisophically good way - but that's just not reasonably possible in this case. Pirate a copy of Windows 2000 if that's what it takes, but the windows solution to the home theater will leave the implementor with much more time to enjoy his system - and probably with more hair left on his head instead of pulled out in his hands. One day this will hopefully change, but that day hasn't yet come.
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:1)
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:2)
I've been looking for a way to get a Mac to output a 16:9 desktop via any Mac-supported video card which has TV out. It's easy to get a 4:3 image sent to the TV, but even the high-end ATI and nVidia cards don't offer 800x450 or 1024x576 as a resolution option on the Mac. (And they don't even support component video; the best they do is S-video. Even my Playstation 2 supports my home theater display better than my Mac does.)
So as a result, when I hook it up to my home theater display, the Mac gives me a desktop that ignores the sides of the widescreen, unless I stretch the image horizontally, which of course makes everything look squashed. There aren't any utilities to tweak the output resolution on the Mac like there are on Linux and Windows.
If someone can tell me exactly how to get a Mac to display a 16:9 desktop on a TV, I'd be very grateful.
Re:Smokin' (Score:2)
Marketing hype lies.
Re:Real HTPC? (Score:1)
"Fully Legal" IMHO, means legal in all countries. Yes, there is such a thing for a lot of software.
I'll take your last comment as pure opinion, which you certainly have the right to voice.
Linux works (Score:2)
We have a linux box next to our Tv [apestaart.org] that does the job quite effectively.
I agree, it wasn't easy, but we can:
- watch DVD's, TV, DivX's, foto's
- listen to music
- record from TV
-
Our project is far from finished but once it is, it'll make a kick ass HTPC out of any linux-box.
ATM Windows is easier but we went with Linux because in the long run it's easier to set up, maintain, change and distribute. It's also FAR more easy to customize and you're not so dependent on one company (Microsoft for windows and mediaplayer)
Re:Linux works (Score:2)
Is this still just for Europe??? (Score:2)
Re:PCI is for expansion, not for tubes (Score:2)
2.) You can fit a nice sounding 500 watt in a CPU.)
D.) You have good Component video out with progressicde scan in 1 box.
Otherwise, you have an over priced office machine that has no use for normal, or even abnormal computing.
No, You can get a Digital Sound Output and plug it into a high end DAC and then into your dobly processor which goes to the power amp. Either that or get a dolby digital receiver with a digital input. Same as any other sound source. Playing a CD or DVD off the thing will not sound any different than from any consumer or prosumer CD or DVD player. Actually, in many cases it will sound better.
As for video, you use DVI out to a projector or large screen multimedia monitor. Higher progressive scan quality than component or any other analog source.
Computers are better for Home Theatre, you just have to steer clear of analog.
Re:HDTV? (Score:1, Insightful)
Also FYI, a quality 21" monitor will stomp all over a basic TV in terms of picture quality. It just depends on the size of your home theater. For my small room a 21" monitor or an Apple Cinema display would be perfect.
Re:PC != HT (Score:2, Interesting)
Other see more in their PC than just a PC (let's admit it, I do a whole lot more on my PC today than I did 5 years ago, watching a movie decently was pure fiction back then)
Still others don't care about TV's and DVD player and will only invest in their PC(s). (I for one don't intend to buy a TV, ever...)
The PC is becoming a central entertainment device, on which you can communicate with others, listen to music, watch TV or movies, read, code and other fun stuff. So why not enhance the experience?
besides, you're a nerd for something...
I wonder how many
Re:PC != HT (Score:2)
- Does everything.
Disdvantages of a PC-based entertainment system:
- Only does one thing at a time.
(OK, there are exceptions, but e.g. try playing a DVD & Counterstrike at the same time. This became important to me at about the time I gained a wife, and even more so with the kids. Besides, dedicated components are cheaper & often better at what they do - my stand-alone CD player is a 300 disc jukebox.)
Re:PC != HT (Score:1)
Re:PC != HT (Score:2, Interesting)
What I'd like is a more embedded-like solution to this problem. Say a minimalist PC. Give it no/little local storage (preferably net-boot, though a solid state disk would work too), have it boot almost instantly, and make it mount network shares (samba/NFS/etc) and/or CDs for all the video content. Then have a simple menu-selector app running that lets you chose/play movies. The back-end OS could be anything. Preferably an x86 'nix (FreeBSD, Linux, etc.), for network interoperability and managability. However, the back-end should be mostly invisible when you're actually using it.
Re:PC != HT (Score:1)