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Music Media

Eminem #2 on Gracenote... Before Release 504

Posted by CmdrTaco from the worth-taking-note dept.
asavage writes "According to this article on news.com last week, Eminem's "The Eminem Show," which was yet to be released, cracked the chart at No. 2. This is the first time an unreleased CD has been number 2 on this list of CD's played in computers." I've pre-ordered my copy and am looking forward to hearing it. But its pretty amazing that Gracenote registers a pirated CD #2 without the benefit of it being for sale yet. Thank god they shut down napster and stopped piracy.
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Eminem #2 on Gracenote... Before Release More

Eminem #2 on Gracenote... Before Release

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  • Gracenote ---- Bah! (Score:4, Informative)

    by BdosError ( 261714 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:09PM (#3598165)
    Yahoo! [yahoo.com] is reporting [yahoo.com] that Gracenote [gracenote.com] (previously CDDB, an open source project) is planning to sell aggregate usage data to advertisers and such like. Makes me glad I use a freedb [freedb.org]-based CD player (CD Max, for the curious [clarktisdale.com]).

    • Re:Gracenote ---- Bah! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by alphaseven ( 540122 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:47PM (#3598436)
      I don't blame them, information like billboard charts and soundscan sales are worth a lot of money to record companies, gracenotes information would be even more valuable, as it shows what people are actually listening to, as opposed to just buying. I miss gracenotes top 100, the chart would largely similar to the billboard charts, but with older albums mixed in. It's amazing how many classic albums, such as Pink Floyd, Nirvana, old Metallica, sit there next to Eminem and Linkin Park. And why is Celine Dion in the top ten?

      • Re:Gracenote ---- Bah! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by danro ( 544913 )
        I don't blame them (except for propretorizing the data their users submitted in good faith, but I won't go into that now...) But since they are less usable to me then they used to be, I don't use them any more.
        To my knowledge there isn't one single selling point (to consumers) for Gracenote that doesn't go for freedb too.

      • Re:Gracenote ---- Bah! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by cosyne ( 324176 )
        it shows what people are actually listening to

        Well, kinda. Assuming the player program caches the information locally, Gracenote's records show what disks people are putting into their computers the first time they put them in. Granted, that gives older records a better representaiton than current sales, but still not that accurate. Of course, if most people re-install windoze as often as i need to, the accuracy could increase signifigantly...

  • And #1 was... (Score:3, Funny)

    by bravehamster ( 44836 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:10PM (#3598173) Homepage Journal
    ...Britney Spear's unreleased, unrecorded next album "Oops,Wö%it my slave again" was ranked #1.

  • A good test case for the 'Marketability' of piracy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:14PM (#3598216)
    Just like Spidey and Star Wars, The Eminem Show can be taken as a good test case for how piracy *really* affects sales.

    In Spider-Man's and Star Wars's cases, it appears that the piracy either had no effect on the incredible revenue both movies generated, or actually had a marketing effect. People who downloaded the pirate version were *more* likely to go see the in-threater version.

    I suspect that The Eminem Show will do the same thing. Just like a label pays a radio station to play a promo-only single before an album's release, the pirate copies of The Eminem Show will encourage people who hear them to go get the album.

    Pay close attention to the figures, and when someone tries to tell you that 'piracy hurt the artist', recite them verbatim!

    • Re:A good test case for the 'Marketability' of pir (Score:4, Interesting)

      by reaper20 ( 23396 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:20PM (#3598259) Homepage
      I agree and disagree. Watching a crappy divx rip of Spidey or AOTC makes me want to appreciate their full glory on the big screen with decent sound.

      Listening to a near perfect copy of the CD version, makes me want to .... not bother buying it.

      I think that piracy definately adds to the buzz of a product, but its much easier to justify the cost of the actual product when the quality for the 'real thing' is substantially better than the pirated version.
      • *near* perfect. Thats the whole issue really. Sure i had a copy of the new Eminem, and yes, i've allready bought the new one. Theres just something about having the actual pressed disk with all of the liner notes and etc that make buying it worthwhile. The main reason that i think people pirate cds so much is because honestly, $15 for 80 mins of music is insane. I remember buying cassette tapes for $5 BRAND SPANKING NEW at the Turtles down the road.

        They increase the price of new music in order to make up for supposed piracy, which in turn makes people more likely to pirate. Its a catch22 of the WORSE kind.

    • I agree. An "analyst" even says so in the article:

      The online versions and bootlegging could serve as a marketing vehicle, whetting fans' appetite for the real thing, noted P.J. McNealy, research director for GartnerG2, a division of the Gartner research firm.

      It's also interesting to note that (despite the "rampant piracy") the limited edition of the CD is the #1 selling CD on Amazon [amazon.com].

      Damn those Internet pirates!

    • Re:A good test case for the 'Marketability' of pir (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dirk ( 87083 ) <dirk@one.net> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:25PM (#3598305) Homepage
      The two (well, 3) cases are pretty much incomparable. The bootleg versions of AotC and Spidey are much poorer quality than you will see in the theatre. Comparing a compressed DivX version taken from a guy with a camcorder in the theatre (which is the version of AotC that I saw making the rounds on the net) is nothing like seeing it in the theatre for yourself. The Eminem bootleg sounds (for most people) exactly like what they would get from the real thing. For most people, they have already bought their copy of the Cd, and unless there is some "super secret" extra on the official release, there isn't a reason to buy another version. The liner notes are not enough incentive for most people to spend $15 on a cd they already bought without liner notes for $5. But seeing a decent version of AotC is worth $15 even though they already spent $5 on a crappy pirated version that isn't near the quality.
      • The bootleg versions of AotC and Spidey are much poorer quality than you will see in the theatre.

        Assuming, of course, that the theatre it is seen in is run by competent people. Although I didn't see the divx of either film, the quality of any motion picture in the only remaining theatre in my town is comparable to the divx movies I have seen -- only the sound is a bit louder (most of the time). I suppose that's what happens when a certain large theatre operator drops ticket prices to $2 just long enough to run all the competition out of business, and then jacks the prices back up. We're doing good here if the picture is centered on the screen. If it's on the screen AND in focus on the first try, well, it's time to go buy some lottery tickets.

        [/end rant]
      • And the issue is the futility of piracy protection. It only takes one person to rip an MP3 and list it on (say) Audiogalaxy, and the success of the protection is null and void.

        The Eminem album is a classic example: it isn't available (ie, people can't rip it) and yet the MP3s are doing the rounds. It just takes one person with a loopback cable and... poof... your copy protection is gone.

        The irony is - of course - that copy protection might *harm* sales. If I know I cannot rip a CD and put it on my iPod, I might not bother buying it.

        Those people that would never buy and would always find a pirate copy will anyway.

        So, that's media industry logic for you...
      • The bootleg versions of AotC and Spidey are much poorer quality than you will see in the theatre.

        I beg to differ...

        A friend recently showed off a Spider-Man DVD complete with menus. Full quality. I was shocked...

        You can buy them in the Detroit area for $10.
    • In Spider-Man's and Star Wars's cases, it appears that the piracy either had no effect on the incredible revenue both movies generated, or actually had a marketing effect. People who downloaded the pirate version were *more* likely to go see the in-threater version
      You say that like there's real data. If you have some, by all means enlighten us (and help the cause). Now, I'm confident you're probably right, but that's based on people I know, which aren't necessarily an accurate cross section. Without hard data, it doesn't help the cause, and you're only preaching to the choir.
      "The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.' " -- Mike Quear, US Congressional staffer
    • As too paying close attention to the figures I would like to see the studies showing that
      People who downloaded the pirate version were *more* likely to go see the in-threater version.

      Not to deny that but keep in mind that the people who go out of their way to download a pirated copy probably like that stuff already. There is a HUGE portion of the population who are not going to see AOTC of Spider-Man no matter what you do and that includes not downloading the pirate version. The people who download are much more likely to have paid for the ticket too see it anyways. I could come out with a study that says people who run on their own are much more likely to lead a healthy life style in other areas. While running does raise your energy to allow you to do other things people who lead a healthy lifestyle also go run as a part of that lifestyle.

      In other words if I'm a person who would download the pirate version am I more likely to see the in-theater version? Yes.

      If I download the pirate version am I more likely to see the in-theater version? Maybe, but we can't tell from a fact like the one you presented.

  • more than Mozart? (Score:4, Funny)

    by twocents ( 310492 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:16PM (#3598228)
    Oh dear, my idealism is shattered, now that I know that Slashdot readers listen to "pop"ular music as opposed to only Pagannine, Vivaldi, and Mozart.

    I just don't know how to handle this.
    • Umm... I think you mean Nicolò Paganini [seicorde.org].

      Ever heard this guy [guitarworld.com] play Paganini?

      Of course, still not what I would call "pop"...

    • Mozart, Vivaldi and particularly Paganini *are* popular music. Just by dead guys. There isn't really a karass of "slashdot readers", but if there were I don't think it would consist of people that *only* listen to any one thing. People that think all the greatest music was written by europeans between 1700-1900 are just as stupid as those (more common) that think all the worlds best music was written in the last 18 months.

      That said, Eminem is a talentless corporate hack. The sooner the vortex of history sucks him into the black hole that contains Vanilla Ice and Millie Vanilly the better.
  • Any word on whether there will be anti-piracy measures on this album? Kinda like retro-fitting a better hull design for the Titanic, but still...

  • major error in the article (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ken Williams ( 28157 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:19PM (#3598245) Homepage
    the Eminem CD was on the shelves and for sale at my local record store on May 21. i purchased it on May 24 (and have the receipt to prove it). of course, when i called the record store today to ask about when the initially put it in the shelves and started selling it, their reply was "Today!". when i told them i purchased it from them on May 24, their reply was "that's entirely possible". when i then asked again when they started selling it, they replied "Today!". i think they were afraid that i might be a spy for the RIAA. ;)

  • It is available - It was released Sunday (Score:4, Informative)

    by joeflies ( 529536 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:20PM (#3598256)
    Before making too many conclusions, it should be noted that the CD is already available, released on a non-traditional Sunday. So part of that stat is mixed with legit sales.

    "Thus, "The Eminem Show," originally slated for a June 4 release, hit stores Sunday -- an unusual step, as albums are typically released on Tuesdays. That move came after it was earlier announced that the release date would be pushed up to today -- roughly two weeks after the album's unsanctioned Internet debut."

    story Here [sacramento.com]

  • You CAN buy it today (Score:4, Informative)

    by Geekboy(Wizard) ( 87906 ) <spambox@the a p t .org> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:21PM (#3598270) Homepage Journal
    I was in the mall to pick up some old skool music (Nerf Herder rules!!!), and I saw it on the shelves. I also saw the note that it won't be released until June, but whatever dude.
    • I saw a blurb on Big Media Television that said this album was going to hit the shelves on Sunday of this week, instead of the industry-usual Tuesday, precisely because the label wanted to curb the piracy of the album.
    • Yep. Buncha kids musta downloaded the MP3s off Napster and burnt it onto CDs. Now we have to implement copy protection to protect the artists.

      -jhp, who could give not a shit whether fat cats and sales reps are employed or not

    • The release was put forward a month by what Em called `internet bootleg djs' and Interscope called pirates.

      But you can still try steal the album - you'll probably eventually get a full copy of it. But currently it might take a few days, at as a lot of the file sharing services are currently filled with bad mp3s, probably by Interscope, another organization they have hired, or a recording industry body. Most of the tracks you'll see from the Eminem show on file sharing networks are simply a ten second loop played over and over again. Others have a near complete track but stop and switch to country music in the middle, and others have quick noises thrown in there. The file sizes are often identical to the real tracks. There's probably a few different techniques, so its harder to look out for - a looped waveform is pretty easy to detect (with an app, or by listening to the music as it downloads), but the country music one is a lot harder to deal with (you'd already have downloaded 1/2 of the track before you realize its bad). There might be other techniques whoever is doing this has used.

  • I BOUGHT A COPY AT FYE'S ON THE 24th! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I bought a copy at the Fye Music in Holyoke, MA on the evening of the 24th. When I asked why it was released early, the girl at the counter mumbled something about the Harry Potter DVD and low sales, and that they received a call from the main office to start putting the new Eminem CD's on the shelves.

    I also saw them available in a Fye's in Woodbridge, NJ the next day.

    For some reason, it is only $11.99, compared to the usual ripoff at that store.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:23PM (#3598280)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • They tell us it was #2, but they give no numbers. Was it 100, 10000, 100000. That seems like the more interesting#. After all, if there weren't any other interesting cd's put out in that time frame, then being #2 might not mean squat. I'm usually not nearly as anti-music industry as many here, but this report smacks of "lies, damn lies, and statistics".

  • NYT (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MisterBlister ( 539957 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:24PM (#3598298) Homepage
    The New York Times today (read it in paper, dunno if they have posted it online) had a mini-review of the album and they mentioned they had pushed up the CD release by more than a week because of the wide-scale piracy of the CD on the net. They also mentioned how in LA it has been really "hip" to blast the new album out of your car, since it was a pre-release and all.

    If the album sales are a disappointment, the shit's gonna hit the fan in one way or another...It will be interesting to see what happens.

  • even without it there's pi-ra-cy...

  • eminem on preorder, taco? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Doktor Memory ( 237313 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:32PM (#3598347) Journal
    Geeze, I'll bet you still have your autographed copy of the "Cool as Ice" video too.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:36PM (#3598374)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • RIAA Sales Models Need To Change (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jason_Knx ( 244168 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:40PM (#3598401)
    This goes to show just how much the RIAA needs to change it's sales models. They're still depending on air play to hype up people to purchasing a album. But no one wants to wait the weeks or months for them to release them. So those pirating are making out like bandits on the people who want it now.

    Just having the assumption that they can eliminate piracy and continue using the same sales tactics isn't going to show the improvement of CD sales they're looking for. They should be releasing the albums for sale at the same time tracks are released for airplay. Then impulse buyers can run out and get the CDs immediately. If buyers have to wait for the overly far away release dates they will look to other means of getting what they want.

    I think the same really applies to most media nowadays. Movies should be released for purchase sooner, TV shows should be released when their seasons finish, and so on. The public are tired of having to wait for what they want. Once it's been released and aired you should be able to purchase it then. You'll then have the choice of a possibly inferior in someway pirated copy or the real thing.

    I wonder if the promotional versions of that radio stations and others recieve were somewhat different, say fewer tracks, for the public releases what will these pre-released bootleg versions be? Promotional releases are controlled so they should monitor that.

    However now they'll just focus on the piracy issue and the public will suffer from it.

  • Taco's strawman argument (Score:3, Informative)

    by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:45PM (#3598422) Journal

    Thank god they shut down napster and stopped piracy.

    The CD-Rs were most likely burned from mp3s downloaded from P2P networks. Besides, 10s of thousands of CDs distributed mostly in urban U.S. cities is hardly comparable to the millions that were downloaded across the globe on napster.

    Besides, Taco, you almost sound like you condone music piracy. Aren't you the one who said [slashnet.org] "I wish people wouldn't steal"?

    Whoever put my shit on the Internet, I want to meet that motherfucker and beat the shit out of him... - Eminem (
    quote [nme.com])

    • Whoever put my shit on the Internet, I want to meet that motherfucker and beat the shit out of him... - Eminem

      So has Eminem's attitude changed since he recorded "The Real Slim Shady"? "I say download the audio on MP3 and show the whole world..." -- Eminem

  • It is number one now... (Score:5, Informative)

    by stain ain ( 151381 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:59PM (#3598506)
    I just checked on gracenote's site.
    "The Eminem show" is now on top, number 1, the most-played this week.

  • Release date pushed up due to piracy. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Slider ( 6074 ) <andrew.meyer@NosPAM.gmail.com> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @06:19PM (#3598660)
    The original release date was June 4th, but due to 'rampant piracy' the release was pushed up a week. It was officially released today.

    MTV News Article [mtv.com]

    Andrew

  • Now we'll need the real data (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jd142 ( 129673 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @06:22PM (#3598677) Homepage
    Assuming that none of the bootleg cd's are identical to the released cd, it would be nice if gracenote gave every request a unique identifier. Then we could see that A used a bootleg before the cd came out, but when the real cd came out, A bought that and had to re-download the songlist.

    I don't like unique identifiers either, but in this case it certainly would be nice if they were able to give us the data that says either "Yes, people who pirated the cd before it came out did purchase the cd within 6 months of release" or "No, people who pirate don't buy the cd within the first 6 months."

    A oneway hash of the computer's mac address + ip address as encapsulated in the packet would be easy enough to do so that Gracenote could track instances of contacts without tracking who is at the other end or giving any agency a method to quickly and easily determine who was at the other end.

    • Assuming that none of the bootleg cd's are identical to the released cd

      They are identical. The highest-quality pirates, the ones who trade .shn and .flac instead of .mp3 or .ogg, include "cue files" with their audio sets that describe exactly how long each track lasts. Because Gracenote's CDDB system works solely on track lengths, Gracenote has no way to distinguish some pirate discs from genuine discs.

  • For a while there were rumors that this CD would be released as a copy protected CD. Was it? Can you play it in your computer? Please respond, because i'd like to buy it, but if i can't play it on the computer there's no real need to.

  • Piracy has impacted the business model. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Boiling_point_ ( 443831 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @07:38PM (#3599097) Homepage
    from an NME article [nme.com] posted by another /.er...

    As a result of the leak, the album will now be released on Monday (May 27).

    If the problem is defined as "pre-release cheap copies will stop people buying later, full price copies", haven't the advocates for change won a battle here?

    I mean, hasn't the record company just realised that artificial marketing delays inherent in the offline distribution process are likely to hurt their sales?

    By releasing the album electronically with (1) fast servers, (2) lossless compression and (3) a reasonable price, and simultaneously sending "gimme airplay!" copies to radio stations (etc.) as is done now, they could cut this sort of "I don't want to wait" piracy down. Sure people will still re-rip the album at 128KB/s and make it available through P2P, but they were going to do that anyway. What do the record companies have to lose, by adopting the practice I have described?

    Ditto for software. Clearly you're not going to get packaging, cover-art, glossy manuals or whatever, through TCP/IP, but doesn't the prevalence of warez and pirated music blatantly show that a sh1tload of people simply don't care? How hard is it to put a "download PDF manual | snailmail me a hardcopy for $5" option together? Or just make the manuals available in normal bookstores?

    • Vivendi is to blame (Score:2, Interesting)

      by momovt ( 529379 )
      How can the Vivendi/Universal complain of piracy, when it was someone *INSIDE* the company that initially *Pirated* the copy that is now on the internet.

  • What?! (Score:2)

    by JohnG ( 93975 )
    Thank god they shut down napster and stopped piracy.

    Yeah, and thank god they arrested Jeffrey Dalmer and stopped murder!
    This is the reason why it's so hard for people who would be against the RIAA to be totally on the side of the average pro-napster guy. This argument FOR napster is every bit as ignorant as the RIAAs argument AGAINST it. There are many similar examples on Slashdot regarding the DMCA. Yes the RIAA is evil, yes the DMCA is evil, but we need to stop pretending that they are trying to sneak into our houses at night and murder us in our sleep if anybody with influence is going to take us seriously.

  • Here's an interesting article I found at www.nme.com...

    Link (http://www.nme.com/news/101808.htm)

    EMINEM'S PIRATE WAR!

    EMINEM is threatening to "beat the shit" out of fans who have illegally uploaded his music onto the Internet.
    Despite his new album, 'The Eminem Show', being one of the most closely guarded pre-release projects in history, it is now widely available to buy and download illegally weeks ahead of release.

    Despite strict security measures, all 20 tracks from 'The Eminem Show' are available on the Internet, almost a month ahead of the album's June 3 release - meaning his label Interscope could lose millions.

    The rapper said bluntly: "I think that shit is fucking bullshit. Whoever put my shit on the Internet, I want to meet that motherf***er and beat the shit out of him, because I picture this scrawny little dickhead going 'I got Eminem's new CD! I got Eminem's new CD! I'm going to put it on the Internet.' I think that anybody who tries to make excuses for that shit is a fucking bitch."

    Internet downloading of music has concerned labels and artists, but there is an even greater fear about bootlegging - selling copies of the downloaded music to fans who can't wait for the real thing or can't afford it. Copies of 'The Eminem Show'' were being sold openly in New York last week for $5.

    As a result of the leak, the album will now be released on Monday (May 27). For more on this story, see this week's NME, which is out in London now and nationwide tomorrow (May 22).
    ---

    Ouch. Eminen should really take some Prozac or Ritalin before press conferences...he might get better PR...

  • There's a world outside the US? (Score:3, Informative)

    by chiark ( 36404 ) on Wednesday May 29, 2002 @04:07AM (#3600849) Homepage Journal
    This was officially released in the UK, and probably sizable chunks of the world, on Monday 27th May.

    This ain't piracy, it's the world :-)

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