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Transatlantic Model Airplane Flight to Begin Shortly 164

Posted by michael from the scramble-the-fighters dept.
dtmos writes "An update on this old story -- Maynard Hill's attempt to fly an 11-lb. model airplane across the Atlantic (from Newfoundland to Ireland) is due to begin tomorrow night, Newfoundland time. This would be the first transatlantic flight by a true model under FAI rules (this plane was too large to qualify). News and updates, background information, some technical info."
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Transatlantic Model Airplane Flight to Begin Shortly More

Transatlantic Model Airplane Flight to Begin Shortly

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  • I work with one of these guys... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by staggerlee ( 124551 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @09:44AM (#4032359) Homepage
    ...he's in the General Services department at National Geographic (and a better code and hardware hacker, in all senses of the word, than anyone in our IS group). This guy's spent months trying to build a GPS that would fit on your watch face.

    The funny thing here is that he went to NG to offer them coverage - he wasn't looking for funding or anything - and they declined, saying there wouldn't be enough interest. Well now it's in the Post, it's on /. and to cap it all off, who's doing a TV special about it? Discovery. Ain't that a swift kick in the crotch.

    Congrats, Foster - clear skies =)

  • Here [earthlink.net] Looks very cool!
  • A tiny plane like a model will never make it across the Atlantic because airplanes don't scale down. Lift (==control) rises as the square of the size whereas weight rises as the cube. So when you have a tiny plane it is mostly lift. Which sounds great, except that human reaction times and amounts are grossly oversized to control something so unstable. Flying around the backyard is fine, choppy winds and extensive times are another.

    And don't even get me started on the inadequacy of the power source to last that long. Crazy dreamer.

    • And if you read the article, most of the travel is due to wind. They only need lift - meteorology will do the rest.

      And I would suggest that they have checked out the duration of the power source by flying it over their back yard for that amount of time - hardly a major proposition.
      • most of the travel is due to wind

        From the technical background of the project:
        No tailwind will be needed although there probably will be one.
        they have checked out the duration of the power source by flying it over their back yard for that amount of time - hardly a major proposition.

        Again, from the article:
        His models currently hold records for ... duration (33.67 hrs)...

        So, to recap, this flight will not be aided substantially by tailwinds, although the more tailwind the better, and it will also set a new distance record.

    • Re:Good luck (Score:5, Informative)

      by Shadow Wrought ( 586631 ) <shadow.wrought@g ... minus herbivore> on Thursday August 08, 2002 @10:45AM (#4032706) Homepage Journal
      Lift is a function of the shape of the wing's airfoil, the size of the wing, the angle of attack at which the wing is flying, and the speed of the airflow over the wing. It does not equal control and I have no idea what you mean in terms of it rises as a square. Two wings of exactly the same square footage can have different lifting capabilities based solely on the aspect ratio of the wing (ie the length compared the width). That is why you may have noticed that gliders have long skinny wings- they maximize the lift for the given amount of area.

      The choppy winds will pose less of a problem in many respects also. The "choppiness" is caused by different aircurrents affecting the aircraft simultaneously. In a 747 moving at 600kts with a 200' length, you are going to intersect numerous sheers of aircurretns repeatedly, bouncing the plane around and causing the "choppiness". A slow tiny thing like this model just isn't going to have that problem.

      Personally I wish them well. They are undertaking a great challenge, and I would love to be there with them!
    • And how do you explain that 4 years ago a 13.2kg model make it across the pond. Seems that your logic is flawed...

      Johan Veenstra
    • You obviously have never flown R/C airplanes. I have been flying for about 2.5 years and several of my friends and I will continue to fly *precision* aerobatics even in winds gusting to 20mph. Sure, light weight does affect controllability, however a properly built and trimmed plane is extremely controllable.
      • I have been flying for about 2.5 years

        Isn't that some kind of record?

        Better watch out for those DVT's bud!

      • I used to fly them a bit too. They are a great hobby for anyone who wants to try it out. The hardest part for me, wasn't the flying part, it was rebuilding the things if you lose control or interference causes your transmitter not to work. :(
        I'm not much of a builder either, so I eventually had to give it up.
        Model Helicopters look interesting though

    • Human reaction times don't matter much:

      After the plane is guided by remote control to a cruising altitude of 500 feet, it will be put on autopilot, to be steered by GPS signals and an onboard microprocessor.

      I learned this by reading the National Geographic News article referenced in the post. Ah, the magic of reading before posting!

      cbd.

    • Right, which is why I have a micro ELECTRIC 24" span R/C plane (http://www.f3x.com/electrics/stingersp400.htm)tha t does 100mph. So according to your theories, if we built one full size it should go mach 1 and fly for hours... Somehow your theory doesn't add up.
    • Flying around the backyard is fine, choppy winds and extensive times are another.

      Obviously you have no clue, `PhysicsGenius'. Actually get some experience with model airplanes, and come back later.

    • Well, Maynard Hill has records like 500 kilometers in a straight line, 33 hours duration, and 8 kilometers of altitude gain to his credit...that crazy dreamer must have one hell of a backyard.

      rj
  • Have you seen the weather here?
    It will be saturated before it gets here!

    Check http://www.met.ie/

    Phil

  • At last! (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi AT yahoo DOT com> on Thursday August 08, 2002 @09:46AM (#4032383) Journal
    Stuart Little will be able to visit his relatives overseas!
  • As the airplane approaches Spain... Air Traffic controller: "Unidentified plane, identify yourself" Air traffic controller turns to coworkers, "This can't be a plane it's too small, what's going on here." Unidentified Aircraft: "Umm... I just took off from here and I'm coming back to land, I ran into this strange green light and I think I shrunk."

  • What next? (Score:1, Funny)

    by EatHam ( 597465 )
    I'm continually stunned by what mankind can accomplish in this day and age. A century ago, crossing the Atlantic meant going by steamship. A century before that it meant sailing, and hoping you weren't boarded by pirates. A few centuries before that it was impossible! Now we can do it with a model airplane; what next?

    Ha. I won't be impressed until they can do it with a paper airplane [zurqui.co.cr].

  • Ok and (Score:1, Troll)

    by xbrownx ( 459399 )
    This is important how?

    Is some great scientific breakthrough being made?

    What are the implications and how can this be used in the future?
    • It might not be a breakthrough but let me know when every joe blow accomplishes this:

      Quote:"The TAM model will be flown by a pilot using standard R/C hobby gear to a planned cruising altitude of about 1500 ft. There it will be put into an autonomous mode, steered by global position satellite signals and an on-board microprocessor. The flight of about 1950 miles is expected to take about 45 hours at 45 mph. No tailwind will be needed although there probably will be one. The position of the airplane, as well as technical data about altitude, speed, engine rpm, and some autopilot functions will be telemetered to satellites and returned to monitors on both sides of the ocean. On arrival at its destination, an R/C pilot will take over control and land the model."

      dam(u)
    • You know, every advancement made in technology doesn't have to be a cure for cancer or something. There is more to life than the big things like that. Yeah, this is basically a few model airplaners playing with their toys, but why shouldn't they? If they are the first ones to do it then they should get the glory. You may not be able to see any major advancements coming from this, but you never know what may come from it down the road, good or bad.

  • for the environment! Smaller planes is less polution!
  • It's not that amazing. The blasted thing is a model plane... still uses fuel, still can fly on its own accord. Wow...

    Call me when they do the first transatlantic paperplane.

    And don't cheat and use a paperclip on the nose.

  • Power for their engine (Score:4, Funny)

    by Damion ( 13279 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @09:59AM (#4032458) Journal
    I hope they remember to wind that rubber band up really really tightly...

  • The doomsday people... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Uttles ( 324447 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [selttu]> on Thursday August 08, 2002 @10:10AM (#4032511) Homepage Journal
    Have been asking about using this for bombs... Well, the US already has these that carry bombs, we're using them in Afghanistan. As far as this actual plane goes and any citizen trying to use one, it could never carry a bomb. It could, however, carry some sort of airborn biological weapon, but there are numerous examples of how hard it would be to actually hurt someone with a small amount of bio warfare.
  • [NG] declined, saying there wouldn't be enough interest. Well now it's in the Post, it's on /. and to cap it all off, who's doing a TV special about it? Discovery. Ain't that a swift kick in the crotch.

    And NG is writing articles, too. Imagine that, NG having to play catch up!

    Bart: The ironing is delicious.
    Lisa: The word is "irony."
    Bart: Huh?

  • GPLed do-it-yourself kit (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tramm ( 16077 ) <hudson@swcp.com> on Thursday August 08, 2002 @10:28AM (#4032592) Homepage
    Since Slashdot is now 100% robotics stories, you might be interested in building your own autopilot [sourceforge.net] kit for model airplanes and helicopters. It isn't perfect yet, but we're getting there.

    The hardware design [sourceforge.net] and source code [sourceforge.net] are all GPLed and available. The most recent releases [sourceforge.net] have an OpenGL helicopter simulator for you to play with as well.

    • Sure, but can you make them out of LEGO(tm) blocks?

      If not, there's no point in putting it on Slashdot.
    • the main challenge is being able to autonomously control the heli indoors..i.e. avoid hitting walls with rototr blades etc.
      follow the horizon autopilots have been done to death in most of the UAV competitions.
      object tracking/scene recognition is the real challenge.
    • Why are you using a MAX231. Doesn't that require charge pumps (Capacitors). Live a little and spend the extra $2 on a MAX233 that doesn't require the pumps. Space is a valuable commodity here.

      Save some money by doing it scrapping the more expensive ATMega163 (though a great choice over the newbie PIC processors and Basic Stamps).

      If you go with the AT90S-8515 you still get plenty of I/O, PWM, Serial I/O, though you'll have to hand code some A-D conversion. Maybe that's why you're going with the 163?

      • snatchitup wrote:
        Why are you using a MAX231. Doesn't that require charge pumps (Capacitors). Live a little and spend the extra $2 on a MAX233 that doesn't require the pumps.
        I wish the MAX233 were available in a DIP10 -- power, ground, Tx/Rx 1, Tx/Rx 2 -- rather than the DIP20. It is larger than the 231 with the two charge pump capacitors.
        Space is a valuable commodity here.
        If I could do SMD work by hand, I would!
        If you go with the AT90S-8515 you still get plenty of I/O, PWM, Serial I/O, though you'll have to hand code some A-D conversion. Maybe that's why you're going with the 163?
        The 163 offers a hardware multiply, self programing memory, an ADC, twice as much memory (both flash and SRAM) and a few more timers. We're using all of those features. The price at DigiKey is only two dollar difference between the 8515-8 and the 163.

        Thanks for the suggestions! Sign up for the mailing list -- we can always use help with the engineering side of things.

    • Yeah, great idea... just I hope the coders are not surprised when Bin laden etc (whoever) use a swarm of bomb laden remote helecopter bombs using this design and source code.

      And I wonder who the FBI et all would hang for it?

      *smiles wryly and sadly*

  • Cheating (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cr@ckwhore ( 165454 )
    Here we go again! Just like the baloonist flew "around the world", we have another fake world record attempt at "crossing the atlantic".

    The "around the world" baloon flight was no more than a circle around antarctica.

    Traditionally, I think "crossing the atlantic" means crossing THE WHOLE THING. From US east coast, to Europe's west coast. I'm sorry, but Newfoundland to Iceland doesn't cut it. Granted, flying a model plane over that distance is an admirable feat, but I don't think it would qualify for a world record.

    • Re:Cheating (Score:2, Informative)

      by Just Another Perl Ha ( 7483 )
      Ummmm.... I think you'd better get those eyes of yours checked out. The target is not Iceland... but rather Ireland. Albeit, there is only one character difference in the names.
    • If the distance between newfoundland and iceland is further then the distance of the current longest model airplane flight, then isn't it a world record?

      Keep in mind, just this week somewhere in California a world record was set for most simultaneous breast feedings.
    • Dude, That's IReland...not ICeland. BIG difference.
    • Last time I checked, crossing something doesn't require taking the longest possible path...

      You start in a body of land on one side of the atlantic. You land in another body of land on the other side. You've crossed it.
  • Charles Lindburg pilot figureen?

    Anyone interesting in getting into model airplanes, esp. the new 'parkflyer' electrics (if you can't stand glow fuel, caster oil 'slimers') should read up at RC Groups [rcgroups.com] - you can get a pretty good flight at the local soccer field with nice, quiet parkflyer electrics. I've just finished something called a Wing-E [toddsmodels.com] and it's a ball to fly in my nearby school yard, get's at least 10 minutes of aerobatic fun off one battery charge.
    • I've got a couple of these Hobby Zone Fighterbird's http://www.hobbyzone.com/fighterbird.html It's lots of fun because there is an IR or some other sort of sensor and transmitter on it so you can dogfight.

      A couple friends of mine have 'em too and we've wasted waaaay too many hours 'shooting' each other down.

      It's not as advanced as some of the newer park fliers but it sure is easy to fly, cheap, and lots of fun!
      • there is an IR or some other sort of sensor and transmitter on it so you can dogfight.

        Interesting -- has to be better than the cut-the-paper-streamer-with-your-prop type dogfights -- the props are so slow even tissue paper jams them up.

  • Excellent! Now, try that without a power plant! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheLocustNMI ( 159898 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @10:54AM (#4032777) Homepage
    Well, i guess the next OBVIOUS step is a plane that can cross the Atlantic on nothing but thermals and tailwinds!

    I mean, when you can keep an unpowered plane aloft for 36 hours [rc-soar.com], why not? Well, so far the straight-line distance record is only 226km, but with a GPS autopilot, and a thermal detection unit (get the scientist working on the tube technology immediately!), who knows!

    FAI RC Model Records for Gliders [fai.org]

    Lift!
  • This article makes me want to drive my radio shack remote control car across the US. All goes well until its run over by a semi.
  • We already have planes with this capability. Predator/Darkstar can stay aloft for almost a day and have a significantly longer range. Not to mention that they take off and land by themselves and can carry missiles.
  • Where do we send the money for the "51" prize?
    I figure it's got to be organized, the competition to send a unmanned R/C plane with a wireless webcam over Area-51 is just too geeky to pass up.
  • The military is currently spending millions of dollars on next gen drone technology like like the Predator and Global Hawk when stuff like model airplanes has been under their noses the whole time. If this can fly to Iceland it can certainly fly around Afghanistan for a day or two. This model airplane couldn't have cost more than a couple thousand to make. Stuff an satellite phone and a webcam in there and you have cheap drone for less than $10k. You could buy hundreds of these for the price of one of those big drones. Imagine them swarming the skies, looking for baddies. Lot harder to avoid and hide from than one big drone. Big plus is model airplanes are SMALL! Give a pair to every special forces unit on the ground and they have quick intelligance in a pinch. Too bad military procurement is controlled by expensive-toy-loving generals and profit-seeking industrialists.

    sigless

    • Here is link [usatoday.com] of efforts to convert old Cessnas to drones. Lot cheaper than $4.5 mil.
    • Give a pair to every special forces unit on the ground and they have quick intelligance in a pinch.

      Hey, good idea. We should also give this idea to Operation TIPS [salon.com]. Imagine how much more efficient their snitches could be.

      And I understand x10 is coming out with a model airplane version of their wireless camera... (if they're not, they should!).

      • Even if X10 doesn't do it, there's lots of companies out there who will sell you model airplanes with small transmitting cameras. In fact, it's scary how many people are trying to fill this niche ...

        Especially since it's a simple matter of buying the plane yourself, building it yourself, and then buying and installing some sort of wireless camera yourself. No need to pay somebody else to do it -- this is hardly rocket science.

    • Sure the Army would love nothing better than to buy a handful of really expensive recon platform when they could get a thousand cheap disposable ones instead!

      What an incredibly stupid thing to say.
  • From the site [dc-rc.org]:

    Latest 09:20 EST 8/8/02 -

    Last night the launch site at Cape Spear was covered with heavy fog--zero visibility and ceiling zero. Launch has been scrubbed and the team is looking for another opportunity.
  • If this thing weighs only 11 lbs, including fuel, I'd venture to say it only has 1 to 1.5 gallons of fuel in it, MAX. Now, I don't know much about model aviation and how efficient their engines are, but even with the very light weight, thats quite a distance for that amount of fuel..
    • Another article I read indicated a fuel consumption of about 2 oz. per hour. Using a nominal 40 hr of flying time, 80 oz = .625 gal. Which would be about 3.5 - 4 lb of fuel.
      Nice fuel consumption of 1900 miles per 0.625 gal or 3000+ mpg!!!
    • If you read the article you will find the bit about the airbourne re-fuelling. It's gonna pull up behind the USAF tanker plane and fill up 7 times during the journey.

      Maybe :-)

    • "The plane's weight is evenly divided between structure and fuel"

      This site generally has comments about articles that are posted somewhere else. People usually go read them and then come back to make informed comments about what they read. But somehow you missed that part.

    • Well, I have a few nitro RC cars. Let's look at one.

      ~1HP on 20% nitromethane blend.
      Fuel tank: 75cc
      1 gallon = 4546cc or about 60 tanks of fuel

      My car has a top speed of 68mph or so (and can hit 60 in around 4.5 seconds when geared to do it). But to maintain sane fuel economy... it has to sit around 22krpm, or around 35mph. It can go on that for about 10 minutes (though maybe 12).

      Or 6 tanks per hour
      Or 10 hours
      10 hours at 35mph = 350mpg

      Keep in mind that this is a high-performance, fuel sucking, 35krpm peak, engine. It also doesn't have the weight of a bottle of nitro either on it. But I think 300mpg is possible. 1HP could move 10 pounds (car and fuel) that I would surmise.

      -----
  • Finally, the tiny receiver buried inside the plane's fuselage made contact with the guidance satellite orbiting thousands of miles above, and the laptop came to life.

    I could write a whole B movie based on that quote : )

  • Dynamic soaring has just recently come into a practical reality. It is an absolutley insane way to have some fun. http://www.reeseproductions.com/mpegs/QuickTime/LT 1large.html
    I have heard some very serious discussion from Joe Wurts about developing Autonomous Dynamic Soaring aircraft able to cross the atlantic, like the albatross.
    http://www.reeseproductions.com/mpegs/ QuickTime/LT 1large.html
  • Meaning half an hour later, right?

  • Imagine the fisherman... (Score:5, Funny)

    by sdo1 ( 213835 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @12:52PM (#4033661) Journal
    ... floating along in his rickety fishing vessel in the North Atlantic hundreds of miles off the coast and probably as far from any other human being when suddenly he looks up and sees....

    nnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

    this little red plane buzzing by.

    One of two things will happen. Either he'll jump overboard... or he'll finally give up the sauce.

    -S

  • Entrepenueral opportunities (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @03:21PM (#4034883) Journal
    Now we can lay our own trans-alantic cable.

    Looks good on paper at least.
  • I'm staking out a place in a bog near Clifden.

  • The site says the launch was delayed due to fog. If the thing is running on GPS-assisted autopilot, what difference does fog make?

  • The model described in the article isn't any kind of real terrorist threat due to its limited payload capacity and slow speed.

    However, that doesn't mean that creating a low cost cruise missile isn't beyond the means of even the smallest terror group or nation.

    Check out The Low Cost Cruise Missile [aardvark.co.nz] for a pointer to where the real danger lies.
    • The model described in the article isn't any kind of real terrorist threat due to its limited payload capacity

      You don't need alot of Ebola to mess someone up, and it doesn't take much radioactive crap to have a building torn down. :-)
  • So does anyone have any info on the GPS componentry of their craft? I'm interested in different but related projects, but I have a tough time learning about the GPS modules that are available...

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