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OEone and Open Office Working Together 87

Posted by Hemos from the integration dept.
Mike Potter writes "OEone and OpenOffice.org have announced a new partnership that will see the two groups work together to bring OpenOffice applications to OEone HomeBase and see the Mozilla calendar data integrated into the OpenOffice suite. OEone is hard at work getting a version of HomeBase running on RedHat 7.3 and Mandrake, with help from open source developers."
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OEone and Open Office Working Together More

OEone and Open Office Working Together

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  • Yet another Linux desktop environment? We'll have what, GNOME, KDE, HomeBase, and (if it ever gets finished) Enlightenment DR17, and who knows how many others?

    • Re:so what exactly is HomeBase? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 22, 2002 @06:36PM (#4123306)
      It's a desktop written in Mozilla for the kiosk, granny-idiot market. It runs atop Redhat 7.3 right now, and (from the site) contains an Internet browser, Multi-account e-mail, Business-card" style address book, Flexible calendar, Fully-featured word processor, Multimedia Centre, Settings menu, Personal Portal.

      • Actually, the OEone download page [oeone.com] states clearly that its OEone HomeBase Desktop product requires Red Hat Linux 7.1 or 7.2, and will only install on those versions. I tried to run the install script on a Red Hat 7.3 box and was told my operating system was currently unsupported. The FAQ [oeone.com] confirms same.

  • This is a good thing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SourKAT ( 589785 ) on Thursday August 22, 2002 @06:04PM (#4123124)
    I think OEOne is a pretty slick alternative desktop. And with the addition of OpenOffice.org, the future just seems a litle brighter.

    On a side, I think they should not just target a particular distro (i.e., RH and Mandrake) but maybe target LSB? After all Mozilla is supposed to be platform independent, and much more so, Distro idependent.
    • I agree that they should shoot for opening up the number of working distributions as a primary goal. But, I would like to add that partnerships like this are incredibly exciting. Maybe additional bundles like this should be used and rather than searching for that "killer app" we should more realistically look for that "killer package."
    • Well, Their FAQ says they're working on a version that will work on RedHat 7.3 and that is LSB compliant, so if I'm figuring right, that should mean it would work on other LSB compliant distros.

      Russ
    • "I think they should not just target a particular distro (i.e., RH and Mandrake) but maybe target LSB?"

      I think they are trying to build a complete operating system to install on a blank computer. But IIRC the source code is open so you can put it evrywhere you want.

  • MozillaZine Story (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    MozillaZine [mozillazine.org] has an article [mozillazine.org] about this with a few more details.

  • I have a better idea (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How about getting OpenOffice to run without segfaulting? It isn't 1.0 yet. The install process is too complicated (and doesn't work), and OpenOffice will faceplant (won't run, install or uninstall) if a Java environment is installed after it is.

    And "yeah but it worked for me" is no different than the standard Microsoft tech support answer "it's running on our systems here"

    Any program that segfaults is broken. Period. End of story. Programs that segfault make Linux no better than Windows. We use Linux to get some work done, not turn the system into a giant, dependency-drenched nightmare that falls apart at the slightest nudge.

    Mozilla doesn't segfault. Abiword doesn't segfault. Gimp doesn't segfault. Let's get to that level of stability first.

    OpenOffice needs a LOT of work before adding more cruft.
    • I have been using openoffice 1.01 on win32 for several weeks and I had not even had a single crash. On my older system it is alot more quicker and efficient then staroffice 5.2.

      • I have also been experimenting with OO 1.0 and have found it to be extremely usable and stable on a win 32 platform.

        From what I have seen so far from 00 1.0, I might actually be able to bring this to the boss as a BETTER solution than MS Word.

    • Re:I have a better idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mz001b ( 122709 ) on Thursday August 22, 2002 @06:50PM (#4123364)
      OpenOffice needs a LOT of work before adding more cruft.

      Submit bug reports detailing the problems/crashes you are having. Like many others, I don't have any stability problems. I did in earlier builds, and I submitted some bug reports. That is how things will get fixed.

      • Considering the hoops you have to jump through [openoffice.org] to do anything with their bug tracking system (note the WONTFIX tag), I have actually given up about that :-(. Those problems have been there for at least half a year, without anything visible being done about them. Sooner or (probably) later they will probably get those things fixed, but they have currently at least managed to scare me off from reporting any bugs. So when I run into any, I just suffer in silence :-(.

        YMMV.

    • Your second sentance has a blunder. It has actually at 1.01 for a few weeks now.
    • Firstly OpenOffice.org is 1.0 now. I have been using OOo 1.0 for Win32S at work for some time it is still slow and the kerning does not look right but it is both stable and functional.

      At home I have installed the Beta 641 build that comes with Mandrake 8.2 download edition - it too is stable and functional (but the fonts look disgusting even if you use the MS ones) - no segfaults though..

      Abiword 1.0 from (rpm from Mandrake cooker) is not it segfaults if you try to save RTF files.

      What OOo build are you using 621 or something ancient like that?

    • Re:I have a better idea (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Idaho ( 12907 )
      How about getting OpenOffice to run without segfaulting?

      Am using Openoffice.org 1.0 exclusively on Windows and Linux since 2 months. Am not getting any segfaults. Maybe you overclocked your PC or got some bad memory banks?

      The install process is too complicated (and doesn't work)

      Yes, it's really hard indeed (N-O-T). './setup -net' as root, click 'next' a few times, then run $INSTALLDIR/setup as the user that wants to use Openoffice, and then you can start it using the KDE menu (or probably the Gnome menu, I suppose it supports that as well). Wow...exactly as the documentation describes you should do. Real hard, ain't it?

      And "yeah but it worked for me" is no different than the standard Microsoft tech support answer "it's running on our systems here"

      Except in this case you are the only one around here that claims to have severe problems all the time, while with Microsoft they are generally the only ones claiming NOT to have problems with their own products.

      Any program that segfaults is broken.

      I agree in general, but I know from personal experience that broken or overclocked hardware can cause this as well. I don't think Openoffice.org belongs in the category that 'falls apart at the slightest nudge', as you so eloquently put it.

      Just my 2 cents, ofcourse :)
      • Yes, it's really hard indeed (N-O-T). './setup -net' as root, click 'next' a few times, then run $INSTALLDIR/setup as the user that wants to use Openoffice, and then you can start it using the KDE menu (or probably the Gnome menu, I suppose it supports that as well). Wow...exactly as the documentation describes you should do. Real hard, ain't it?

        Ummm... compared to "apt-get install koffice", yes, it's hard. Also, it makes you do a separate install for each user, instead of one global install like a good Unix program. This confused the hell out of me and it took me most of an hour (and a couple of reinstalls) to get it working right.

        Sure, this is all probably documented in a README somewhere that I should have looked at... but is it too much to ask that OpenOffice install like every other Linux program?

        • So why don't you just use "apt-get install openoffice.org"? I assure you that it is just as easy as apt-get install koffice. The debian maintainers have cut the per-user install down to ~1.3MB which isn't absurd and based on a search of my home directory kde, and netscape[two programs I don't use] created similarly sized .<config> directories. It is currently in debian's incoming ftp section and should hit unstable any day now or if you are impatient use:

          deb http://ftp.freenet.de/pub/ftp.vpn-junkies.de/openo ffice/ testing main contrib
      • >Except in this case you are the only one around here that claims to have severe problems all the time No he isn't. I gave up on it myself for the same reason, that and every time it crashed it scattered 20 or so .tmp files in my home directory.

      • Yes, it's really hard indeed (N-O-T). './setup -net' as root, click 'next' a few times, then run $INSTALLDIR/setup as the user that wants to use Openoffice, and then you can start it using the KDE menu (or probably the Gnome menu, I suppose it supports that as well). Wow...exactly as the documentation describes you should do. Real hard, ain't it?

        (sigh) How many times did we have this discussion already? How many times will we still have to go over this again? (I fear the answer is somewhere close to infinity...)

        The installation is indeed very easy for the average Joe Slashdotreader. I simply follow the detailed instructions, and everything worked fine. No problem.

        But how do you explain to somebody who is used to some 'Installshield' stuff, why he has to select the network setup to install on a single-user pc? Or that he has to install the program two times, once as root, and once as user? Come on, most Average-Joe-Users will run away waving their hands and screaming if you ask them to use the command line to run an install script!

        Most people don't want to learn about the inner workings of their computer. Most people simply want to write letters, calculate spreadsheets, read their email, and maybe play some games. And they want to do this as hassle-free as possible. Most people are not like us nerds, who love tweaking around with their system. Command-line interfaces and specific commands and command options are perceived as a huge hassle. Tell the user to click the 'Install' button, and he understands (or at least he has the impression he understands). Tell him to type './setup -net' in a command-line window and he will feel completely clueless (well, you could say that's only because he IS indeed clueless, but that's not the point. Nobody wants to feel clueless and most people feel disinclined to use any tools that make them feel that way).

        It doesn't seem like a huge task to write a simple point-and-click interface to guide Joe User through the installation process. And one could simply have the user-installation script automatically executed the first time a user runs the program. Anyways, the upshot is: If you think that OSS is only for geeks, there is indeed no need to improve the installation. For folks like us it's already as easy as heck. If you want to improve OSS's popularity with the mainstream, on the other hand, we better make this work more smoothly!

      • > Yes, it's really hard indeed (N-O-T).
        > './setup -net' as root, click 'next' a
        > few times, then run $INSTALLDIR/setup
        > as the user that wants to use Openoffice

        Hahaha. That's not how it works under Unix. I install it as any user I like (which is certainly *not* root), in any location I like, and then start the executable as the user using the app (which is different from the user owning the installation).

        I tried to do that, and wasted lots of hours until it worked. Because OpenOffice didn't give me error msgs, when it didn't like something - it just crashed.

        The setup path you describe might work for you, but I will not run such software as root. Almost any other Unix software can deal with that.

        > Except in this case you are the only one around
        > here that claims to have severe problems all
        > the time

        Wrong. Most people I spoke of said that the installation of OpenOffice under Unix is a catastrophe.

        > I don't think Openoffice.org belongs in the
        > category that 'falls apart at the slightest
        > nudge'

        But that's exactly my experience. I don't want to disminish the work of the people, because I used it only for a few minutes (successfully), but within that time, it crashed several times (IIRC).
    • I installed it from Ximian. Worked OK, as far as I could tell.

      However, I agree that stability work is important. Luckily, we have code revision control systems that allows teams to work on stability on one branch, and new features on another.
    • The install process is too complicated (and doesn't work), and OpenOffice will faceplant (won't run, install or uninstall) if a Java environment is installed after it is.

      If you are running a source based distro like Source Mage or Gentoo, openoffice is trivial to install:

      (If you are using gcc 3.1 or greater and wish to compile with optimizations local to your hardware)

      emerge openoffice

      (If you are using gcc 2.95, you'll have to install the precompiled binary)

      emerge openoffice-bin

      The second command exists analogously for Debian, using apt-get. It doesn't get any easier than that.

      Any program that segfaults is broken. Period. End of story.

      Agreed. You should submit a bug report. I have not experienced any of the seg faults you are describing. Was your binary compiled against a slightly different set of library versions (that is one of the huge disadvantages of binary distributions, and one of the reasons those of us who have switched to source based distros such as Gentoo will never go back).
    • Mozilla segfaults on my machine, and OpenOffice doesn't. Maybe your hardware is buggy.

  • From OEone's web site... ??? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 22, 2002 @06:13PM (#4123181)
    Pulled off the "about us" section on the OEone web site...

    "OEone has applied for seven patents on the company's unique 'balanced processing' architecture to create a barrier-to-entry from vendors using proprietary platforms."

    Uhhhh... Yeah. That's interesting. Anybody know anything about this?
    • Yeah, I can't see how that's gona be a good thing, even if "OEone has embraced the Open Source model because of the significant advantages to its customers." I think we may find some interesting things in here too. http://oeone.com/EULA/
      • Yeah - some cool stuff in the EULA indeed:
        • Item 1-b):The Software may include certain plug-in components ("Plug-Ins"), including the Real Networks RealPlayer, Adobe Acrobat Reader, Macromedia Flash. You may only call to or otherwise use such Plug-Ins through the use of the OEone applications. Any direct use of Plug-Ins through a non-OEone proprietary application, including a custom or user-written application is prohibited by this Agreement.
        • Item 2-c):You may only use the Software for your private, non-commercial use. You may not use the Software in any way to provide, or as part of, any commercial service or application. Copies of content files, including, but not limited to songs and other audio recordings, which are downloaded or copied using the Software, and which are protected by the copyright laws or related laws of any jurisdiction, are for your own personal use only and may not be distributed to third parties or performed outside your normal circle of family and social acquaintances.
        • Item 5-a): The Software consists of interactive Internet applications which perform a variety of communications over the Internet as part of their normal operation. A number of communications features are automatic and are enabled by default (for example, Auto Update of software for security and bug fixes). Such automatic communications features do not send any personally identifiable information about you without your consent. Most automatic communications features can be changed by you in User Preferences. By installing and/or using the Software, you consent to the Software's communications features. The Software also allows the use of Cookies, similar to an Internet browser. This allows any website to set cookies for you when you view any of the website's content through the Software, unless you have disabled cookies. To learn more, visit the OEone Consumer Software Privacy Statement link on our website at http://www.oeone.com. You are responsible for any telecommunications or other connectivity charges incurred through your use of the Software.
        • Item 5-b):The Software automatically communicates with OEone's servers on the Internet to check for updates to the Software, such as bug fixes, patches, enhanced functions, and new versions. OEone will notify you when updates are available. If you decide to update, you agree that OEone may upload updates and install them as part of your Software. All such updates to the Software are governed by this Agreement, unless other license terms are provided with the update. Although OEone uses encryption technology to provide security for the autoupdate process, OEone is not responsible for the failure of such security measures.
        • The whole of item 6):DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS ("DRMs"). The Software may include third party DRMs as Plug-in components which are subject to their own license agreements. DRMs are designed to manage and enforce intellectual property rights in digital content purchased over the Internet. You may not take any action to circumvent or defeat the security or content usage rules provided or enforced by either the DRM or the Software. DRMs may be able to revoke your ability to use applicable content. OEone is not responsible for the operation of the DRM in any way, including revocation of your content. OEone is not responsible for any communications to or from any third party DRM provider, or for the collection or use of information by third party DRMs. You consent to the communications enabled and/or performed by the DRM, including automatic updating of the DRM without further notice, despite the provisions of section 5(b). You agree to indemnify and hold harmless OEone for any claim relating to your use of a third party DRM.
        This is not very nice and opensource and all - especially 5 and 6 look cool. Also, under strict interpretation of item 2-c, I cannot use OpenOffice.org to create a writer file (content) and send to someone I don't know. I cannot create a webpage with OEone, since I will be distributing content to people I don't know. What the fsck?
    • Well this [ic.gc.ca] is all I can find for OEONE, Don't know if it means anything, all this patent stuff is just way to vague sounding to me.
  • The screenshots [oeone.com] are pretty piss-poor, but I can still see that they're re-inventing the wheel.

    More fragmentation of the userbase is not what the linux desktop needs. I really don't have much else to say here, the screenshots leave me speechless -- but not in the good way, more like in a stupified way. I just ask, why??

    • Re:Yippee (Score:2, Insightful)

      by SourKAT ( 589785 )
      Why, is a good question. But the answer could be that this desktop is not actually targeted for hackers but regular end users. And if I read correclty they're targeting specialized devices such as settop or dedicated email/web machines. Their UI is very similar to a Browser/Web interface so it would be easy for momp, pop, little sister and that neighbor that insists on hangin' out on our living room to be comfortable with ... hmmm ... on second thought maybe it's not such a good thing after all ;)
    • I don't think that HomeBaseis good or bad in any functions, considering how it would bring "M$-Outlook" capabilities to OpenOffice.org. But I know for sure that I want all HomeBase's functions in my OpenOffice. And I want them on any platform where OpenOffice works. The last argument saves Evolution from being bothered by integration with OpenOffice - There is no such thing as Gnome for Win32 and MacOS/*. I love Gnome, but with all do respect, I prefer the path of Mozilla and OpenOffice.org - work the same way across all platforms. And HomeBase is perfectly completing the picture of Mozilla/OpenOffice.
    • Damn, but those screenshots look like the ones posted of Microsoft Whistler (XP) Beta 2. At the time, XP's UI looked kind of like a cross between their 'Luna' and 'Classic' modes.

      But damn again, when will the OSS world learn that you cannot overtake Windows, especially on the desktop, until we have something better than XP? Looking at those fuzzy screens, I almost cringe at the idea of what the fonts look like up close. And i do cringe at the thought of how slow this thing has got to be on less than prime grade hardware.

      Seriously, folks, if we really want a peice of the desktop, we have to take Apple's lead and build a new UI. If they can do it, there is no reason OSS can't.

  • What about fonts? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Bullfrog ( 19683 )
    I agree with the comment below about poor quality screenshots. I don't get excited over fuzzy, out-of-focus screenshots. This makes it all to easy to hide aspects of the interface that won't sell well, like crappy screen fonts.

    With Microsoft's recent withdrawal of the free web fonts, I have to wonder how OEone is going to surmount this particular hurdle easily. And before you start ranting about how the Microsoft EULA allows these fonts to be freely distributed if in their original packaged form, so therefore the fonts will be and still are available, I noticed an article in The Register where the actual license granted to *Microsoft* by the foundaries to use the fonts is only valid if the fonts are used in a *Windows* OS. Any other use is illegal, which is probably the main reason Microsoft withdrew them as free downloads. They weren't being used, nor could they be guarranted to be used only on Windows, which violates Microsoft's license to use and distribute the fonts.

    It appears that OEone has solved this particular, ongoing and nagging Linux problem, I guess. I hope. Here's wishing...

    Bullfrog

    • http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/

      And, judging by the license they were licensed under, probably always will be.
      • If this is so, and I know about the corefonts site, then Microsoft has been distributing these fonts in clear violation of their own agreement with the foundries, which stipulates that the fonts are only licensed for use on a Microsoft OS. Period. I don't know if the corefonts guys realise this or not, or if they're just bending the rules in a grey area. I don't really care, but I thought the legalities were interesting.

        Bullfrog

    • Yes and no. Here is the link [openoffice.org]and a screenshot [openoffice.org]. As you can tell by the color and style of the Windows is that gui aqua support is lacking and needs work. Unfortunately this and other things like the scripting engine need alot of work and may be more then a year or 2 away [openoffice.org] from a release. I believe even FreeBSD is not fully ported yet either so this means alot of work needs to be accomplished. I read your posts on macosX and assume your a user. The openoffice team had only 2 developers the last time I looked which were working on the Xdarwin/macosX port. If you know how to code or want to beta test it then you can help out.
      • The recent CNET debacle over will-Apple-or-won't-apple-help-w/OS-X has apparently driven a lot of Mac developers to the site. I've been following the porting mailing list activity a bit (as you can see here [openoffice.org], there have been nearly twice as many posts this month as last month), people really seem to be interested in getting this thing working on OS X.

        So it looks like there are more than the original two developers on this thing now.

        I can't wait...I was thinking for a while that Abiword would have an OS X port first, but now it looks like OO.o has the momentum.

        W
      • Thankx for the info. I'm busy doing some crazy work right now, but when things slow down I actually plan to start working on my first open source project, and it's gonna be the port of OO to Max OSX. Wish me luck. :)

  • Patents and segfaults. Wonderful (Score:3, Interesting)

    by borked ( 603290 ) on Thursday August 22, 2002 @06:48PM (#4123357)
    This is really not what we need right now. Previous users have mentioned OpenOffice's current segfaulting behavior. Couple this with patents(!?!?) and you get a product that looks like it came out of Redmond! I'll stick with Moz and OpenOffice as separate applications. I prefer to launce a browser when I want to browse and launch an editor when I want to edit. Did anyone EVER use that silly file desktop in StarOffice 5.2? Right now, my support goes directly to the developers of Moz and OO rather than some patent-filer mooching off of the efforts of Moz's and OO's developers.
    • Patents? Do you have references? I haven't heard of any relevant patents.
    • Right now, my support goes directly to the developers of Moz and OO rather than some patent-filer mooching off of the efforts of Moz's and OO's developers


      You do not understand the idea of OSS at all do you? THe idea is that anyone can use it, distribute it, modify it, sell it in somne modified form, or whatever. Tht is what OEone has beeen trying to do. How do you know that OO segfaults on HomeBase? Have you tried it?

      Myself? I am using it right now... It has a few slick features, and a few that suck (DHCP support blows with my particula ISP and cable modem). They have taken something that is not supposed to be just a web browser (mozilla), modified it, freely distributed it, with source, as well as offering it for sale. That is the whole idea of OSS.


      Hell, mozilla is being sued right now for infringing on the godzilla likeness and trademarked name...
    • Mooch? The whole idea of OSS is not to re-invent the wheel. OEone aren't taking and not giving back either - they've giving back a lot. They're obviously not mooching, you rude little boy.
    • We are not the center of the universe. We are not typical end-users.

      That is all I have to say.

  • Looks Good (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tyreth ( 523822 )
    I really like the idea of OEone's desktop. Combining with OpenOffice seems like an excellent idea - both projects should benefit from each other reviewing their products.

    Doesn't matter about segfaults - these will get fixed as time passes and as the two projects co-operate. Alternatively submit bug reports yourself.

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