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Music Media

Ogg Vorbis For Hardware Makers 234

Posted by timothy from the iriver-are-you-listening dept.
SerpicoWasTaken writes "CNET has a story announcing the release of Tremor. It's an Ogg Vorbis (Vogg Gorbis, Vogg Orbus, or Ogg [unintelligable] as pronounced by the various managers in my office) decoder that does not require a floating point unit and could herald the rise of Ogg Vorbis compatible MP3 players." Update: 09/04 21:00 GMT by T : Sorry -- this story's a dupe.
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Ogg Vorbis For Hardware Makers More

Ogg Vorbis For Hardware Makers

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  • Well, we saw this story yesterday,
    here [slashdot.org]

  • Hey Tim (Score:2, Funny)

    by NeMon'ess ( 160583 )
    Tim must've been talking on his cell phone while posting this duplicate article.

  • Let it begin! (Score:5, Informative)

    by SkulkCU ( 137480 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @04:10PM (#4196775) Homepage Journal

    repeat. [slashdot.org]

    • This comment is a dupe. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Multiple Sanchez ( 16336 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @04:16PM (#4196816)
      This comment is a duplicate of another one in this thread. Why don't you posters read the other posts before hitting "submit"? ... While you're answering that question, I'll go get a soft drink. Ahh -- diet doctor pepper. Who would have thought they could improve on the original? But they did!

      • This comment is a duplicate of another one in this thread. Why don't you posters read the other posts before hitting "submit"? ... While you're answering that question, I'll go get a soft drink. Ahh -- diet doctor pepper. Who would have thought they could improve on the original? But they did!
    • Weird. The original story SkulkCU referenced does not appear in the "older stuff" slashbox for my login. Anyone else have that problem?

  • not so fast... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Longinus ( 601448 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @04:11PM (#4196777) Homepage
    "could herald the rise of Ogg Vorbis compatible MP3 players."

    Wouldn't that make them Ogg Vorbis players?
    • Well, OGG Vorbis/MP3 Players... I don't think they're talking about *replacing* the MP3 decoder with an OGG Vorbis decoder, but rather encouraging hardware manufacturers to consider adding support for OGG. Besides, there are already players that play both MP3 and WMA. OGG is just another format from a hardware standpoint.
      • Yes, I realize that, I was just poking fun at the mislabeling of mutli-codec audio players as "MP3 players."
      • If there is a cost on the MP3 decoder I would assume that going forward they would drop the license for it and proceed with the OGG only ?
        I wonder if the cost savings is worth the effort to rewrite all my music ?

  • c'mon (Score:2, Funny)

    by lamp77 ( 147098 )
    could at least just put it in a slashback.

    • could at least just put it in a slashback.

      They will.

      Twice. :-)

    • "could at least just put it in a slashback."

      Sorry about the temporal incongruity folks, my Tardis has been acting funny since I spilled carrot juice on the console. I'd fix it if some AC wasn't trying to kill me.

      --Doc
  • What else can I say?
  • ...Stories Repeat you! [slashdot.org]

    Oh this isn't Fark.com? I'll get my coat.

  • Are the posters on slashdot not allowed to have this block on their page? Because a quick glance over there would have kept this from happening and taking up one of the 14 story slots for today.

  • Timothy sucks (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Laplace ( 143876 )
    There isn't much more to say about that. Timothy sucks. Boo!
  • . . . because .ogg files sound better than .mp3 anyway.
  • Many manufacturers have said they are playing it safe and are waiting for Ogg Vorbis to develop a large following before they devote any development work to the format.

    Just like Linux on the desktop... Let's face it, everyone has paid the MP3 licensing fees who are going to. Ogg is relatively unknown, hell, MP3 was unknown until Napster popularized it.

    Its going to be a long while before we see iPod with Ogg capabilities... because there just isn't enough critical mass.

  • its pronounced as hog without the h (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Dumbasses.
    Thats the problem with geeks. They make words that no one can pronounce like
    linux (lin-ucks)
    GNU (Guh-new)
    KDE
    ogg (ogg)
    Slashdot (/.)
    1337 (One thousand, three hundred and thirty seven)
    • Dumbasses.
      Thats the problem with geeks. They make words that no one can pronounce like
      linux (lin-ucks)
      GNU (Guh-new)

      I thought this too, but then I wondered if it's an intentional "freudian slip" in the backs of our minds. By making our top-secret geek tools unpleasant to say, it will stay out of the mouths of people who like to "nip things in the bud" before they get a chance to grow.

      Most RIAA and MPAA execs are pampered babies who don't like to hear ugly things...how many times do you think the word "Ogg" will float around the RIAA boardroom? They are too egotistical and full of themselves...

      So this is pretty cool, it's like geekcode for the verbal "word-of-mouth" space.

      Once OGG is locked solid and working...we can always rename it to something more appealing later. So the theme is...first we built the lawyer-proof tanks, then we release them into the public domain...I love it!
      • Once OGG is locked solid and working...we can always rename it to something more appealing later. So the theme is...

        Actually, there is no reason that the file name or extension has to be the same as the decoder..Word files aren't mydocument.wrd.. kinda like how .avi format movies could use a multiple of several decoders.. why not just call them .mp3 and expect people to upgrade to the new version.. (that would be mean :) ) or more seriously just call them song-name.music to imply that they are music.. i think that would probably catch on..
  • Some people don't use ethernet. Some won't use mp3. Making ogg vorbis and mp3 play nicely won't yank the thousands of diamond rios out of people's hands or get them to upgrade. As a practical matter mp3 is the de facto winner of this round of music standards, technical or legal merits notwithstanding. I don't have to like it, it just is.

    guac-foo
    • Winner, what round. .ogg just reached 1.0 not to long ago. I personally want a player that plays .ogg, and won't buy one unless it does!

      • I've enjoyed having my MP3 player for a few years now. It's this new device that plays compressed digital music files. Oh? You want an ogg vorbis music player? Well, it's only almost 2003 -- keep waiting.

        Listen. I'm sympathetic. The next MP3 player (digital/compressed music player -- wait: GNU/digital/compressed music player) I purchase, I will look for o.v. compatibility. The device I have right now works just dandy, however.

        GF
    • I've got an mp3 player that is flashable. I will happily switch to OV as soon as I can. I have both formats now, and play vorbis via winamp with no real problems. But for the day you are correct.

  • Wow I just hate it when I see the future and then I go to slashdot and it's like I already read everything.

    I hate Deja Vu


  • oh my, not again!!!
    another glitch in the matrix?

  • For more details (Score:2, Informative)

    by eldimo ( 140734 )
    Check yesterday discussion [slashdot.org]

  • Realistic? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Spazholio ( 314843 )
    When you get right down to it, MP3 is now a recognized and (mostly) accepted medium. Despite the fact that Ogg is a superior format, and open source to boot, I think it's going to be an uphill battle. Manufacturers aren't going to rush to develop for it, because there's always a fear of doing something new and innovative in a realm where there's already a clear and established niche. And people aren't going to want to get a portable Ogg player, because it's not what they're used to ("Ogg? What's that? A new virus?"). Not to mention ripping all their CDs AGAIN. And that's even assuming they owned them in the first place. If not (most likely), they'll be encoding from lossy to lossy. Most people I know aren't audiophiles, and only get 128, maybe 160 if it's available, so sound quality from a 128 MP3 to even a decent quality Ogg will be bad. It's a wicked circle, and it's a damned shame. I have a Zaurus, but it doesn't have NEARLY the battery life to double as a portable Ogg player. Here's to hoping someone in the portable music industry has some balls and decides to take a chance.

    • As long as the hardware device continues to play MP3s there is little risk to the manufacturer. They'll pay no royalties to use either the format or the Tremor software, all they need is a tiny amount of extra space.

      Personally I am in the market for a portable Ogg player. In fact, I considered purchasing the Zaurus simply because it is the only portable device that I am aware of that plays Ogg files. However, I already have a PDA that I am happy with, and if I could get a less expensive gizmo that still played Ogg files I would snatch it up in an instant.

      In short, the Ogg format wouldn't cost much to support, and it might swing potential buyers towards your device instead of a competitor's player.

    • Two-words. Maybe one ;) -- Beta-max.

      No matter where ogg might go, mp3 has a foothold. There's a difference though. Using Ogg for your music collection is easy since the medium you rip from is the same as mp3. Most of my music collection I own. I don't get my mp3's from friends either. I just borrow their cd's. So using Ogg won't be hard. And being opensource, it'll stick around until something blows it and mp3 out of the water :) As for the hardware players, give it time, we'll have devices that support wma, mp3 AND ogg.
      • Two-words. Maybe one ;) -- Beta-max


        Nah, it's a completely different scenario, because it's cheap and easy to build an audio player that plays both mp3 and ogg. Compare that with the difficulty involved in building a VCR that plays both VHS and BetaMax.

        • Two points to think about:

          Today it's cheap to build beta-max, no? So producers have a choice to sell onto customers.

          Plus, people who had the master copy of a video could choose beta-max or vhs. Unfortunately, copies available to the consumer market was usually vhs. With Ogg, mp3, wav, wma, we have the hardware already so we get to choose the format.
          • The point was, a videotape consumer in the '80s was willing to buy either a VHS recorder, or a Beta recorder, but not both. In the near future, consumers will be able to buy players that plays both .ogg and .mp3, for about the same price as an .mp3-only player. So there is little danger of .mp3 "crowding out" .ogg (or vice versa) the way VHS crowded out BetaMax.
      • Not a useful comparison. VHS beat Betamax for several reasons:

        Betamax VCRs cost more. Many companies made VHS VCRs, and competition drove prices down, while only Sony made Betamax.

        VHS allowed 6 hours of recording per tape, and consumers considered the quality adequate. Betamax had better quality, but much less time per tape (under 2 hours, IIRC).

        VHS VCRs could not easily be made that would play Betamax tapes. Choosing VHS meant not choosing Betamax.

        Now let's compare Ogg Vorbis and MP3:

        MP3 costs money, and Ogg never does. "More expensive" will not apply to Ogg ever.

        Ogg can fit as much music, or more, as MP3 into a similar space. Yet Ogg has the better quality. (Consumers consider MP3 quality to be adequate, though.) This one is a wash.

        Players can be easily made that will play either MP3 or Ogg. When Ogg players are available, buying one will not mean choosing not to be able to play MP3s; and consumers might buy a player wanting to use it for MP3s, and wind up using it for Ogg.

        So I don't think the Betamax comparison is all that useful.

        It will cost engineering time and testing time to add Ogg to players, but it will not cost any licensing fees. It isn't free to add Ogg to a player, but it's darn close, and Ogg adds nothing to the all-important "cost of goods". Given this, it is inevitable that at least some players will be available that will do Ogg.

        steveha

        • My point isn't why beta-max isn't used nor if ogg will never see players. It's more of ogg being in a similar position as beta-max. None-the-less, I believe the outcome will be different. It will be more of a cult thing that will stick around for a long time vs beta-max.

          Two points you bring up which are relevant to why ogg will stick around at least as a cult thing:

          You say mp3 costs money. I've never paid for winamp or iTunes. Neither will ogg. It's a popularity race in that case. Will I use ogg to encode? I doubt it, I like my mp3 collection. Space is cheap. My time isn't ;)

          You bring up quality. Ogg may or may not have a better audio quality. I can encode with mp3 to match ogg, just at different bitrates to make them sound mostly alike. With betamax, we had no choice since it never hit the consumer... much if at all. We were spoonfed.
        • "Betamax VCRs cost more."

          You gave other reasons, but, speaking as someone
          who was there at the time, I feel compelled to
          point out that this was *THE* reason.

          Beta cost a *LOT* more. VHS recorders went from
          almost affordable to essential very, very quickly.
          Beta was always expensive, and only really made sense if you were into buying a camera.

          It looked to me as if Sony bet the farm on the idea that people would be into making their own movies, that replacing super-8 was the killer app. But the real killer app was taping tv shows. Home video was secondary, and super8 was
          already dead because it was starting to cost too
          much. The last 8mm film I made cost $2.75 PER MINUTE to process, in 1977, and about that much to buy the film. 20 minutes was considered a lengthy home movie. But the whome home movie fad had pretty much faded away before vcr's hit the scene. It was taping movies off cable, and also movie rentals, that drove the sales of the VCR.

          And the customers in the electronics stores had a choice. And they bought the one that was cheaper.

      • A more realistic comparison might be to the current crop of DVD players, for example APEX players. Most of them play DVD, SVCD, CD, CD/R, and CD/RW, including MP3s on CDR. And they still only cost about $100 new. The reason is simply that for the cost of a little extra logic you can support lots of different (but similar) media.

        Digital music players are even easier. There's no physical carrier to worry about, so once you build a machine capable of playing MP3s, you already have the hardware to play WAV, OGG, WMA, VQF, whatever. The hardest part is the licensing, and since OGG is free, no biggie there.

        • That's very true.

          Well, here's the big question. Supplying that your encoding alg has become outdated, but you wanna use it, would you conform to popular opinion or stick with what you like? With Ogg, there's that choice since the software will be around forever. With beta-max, there isn't. :)

          Mp3 is in a similar position as ogg, except it has popularity.
    • Despite the fact that Ogg is a superior format

      From a hardware design standpoint, thats highly debateable, especially considering that until yesterday (or today if you didn't read /. yesterday) there wasn't a decoded that could work on non floating point processors. Portable Ogg players will never come close to beating mp3 players until they cost the same or less to produce.
    • WordPerfect doc format were a recognized and accepted medium. Lotus 1-2-3 doc format was a recognized and accepted medium. UNIX was a recognized and accepted high-end server. Things change, and so does defacto standards.
      • You don't work in a law office or a state legislature, do you?

        If not, then you probably don't realize that
        WordPerfect is still in widespread use.

    • I remember hearing the same thing about Floppy Disks. Every computer has a 5 1/4 drive, why spend money on a 3 1/2 ?

      If the people get something better, they will Switch(TM) eventually. Long live Ogg.

  • Am I the only one that thinks this is analogous to frog-compatible fish?
  • Well for me the choice is simple--if iRiver decides to make their players OGG compatible, then I'll buy one (I've certainly been drooling over it long enough)--if not, I'll stick with my Nomad II MG, which is none the worse for wear, considering it's going on 2 years old now.

    I am fairly sure that they will add support, considering how friendly the people at Xiph are being with offering help to put the format in their players...
  • this [slashdot.org] site already broke the story. the slashdot editors should check it out sometime...
  • This should really belong to moderators-are-you-reading-tour-own-website dept.
  • have ogg hardware... called a laptop :) ... just wish I had more than 10GB total HD space
  • Does anyone else think that this release was timed especially well, especially with the release of the much published MP3 "negative" and unfounded press? Right on the heels of that article the sarcastic response [xiph.org].

    Exceptionally paranoid or well played media match set?
  • I figure at some point, iPods will get mentioned. Then OS X (Jaguar, roar!) and then someone would complain about the 1 button mouse (ignoring that whole "I can just use my own 3 button USB mouse and it will work right off the bat!" thing). I'm just getting it out of the way.
  • CNET has a story announcing the release of Tremor.

    And Slashdot.org a top notch tech news site had the story yesterday. I wish that for once CNET would find their own content instead of always stealing it a couple days late from other news sites.
  • Seriously... you guys don't care anymore (the "editors"). We're getting repeats almost every day or at least every other day. If you guys aren't going to read slashdot anymore, then hell hire someone who can. Or maybe they'll do it volunteerly like you used to do in the old days. I don't want to bitch about slashdot. I like slashdot, always have in the roughly 2 years i've been on here. It just sucks to see the creators of something so damn cool stop caring. *sigh*

  • New Poll (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nos. ( 179609 ) <[ac.srrekeht] [ta] [werdna]> on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @04:36PM (#4196945) Homepage
    What punishment should a slashdot editor receive for posting a duplicate story?

    • Stand in corner for 5 minutes - we want this on a webcam so we can see it!
    • A lashing with a wet noodle
    • Read all comments in the duplicate story (at -1 of course)
    • Install WindowsXP on unsupported hardware
    • Some lame CowboyNeal option
      • Stand in corner facing life-size printout of the Goatse.cx image.
      • Lashing with wet towel, rat-tail style
      • Post at -1 for one month
      • Support Windows XP at Stumblefuck, Alabama call center for one month
      • Blow Cowboy Neal
      All of the above should take place on webcam and best stills should be interspersed with the normal banner ads.
  • Now I have more reason then ever to burn all of my mp3 to regular cd format then re-rip them into OGG-Vorbis. Lets see I have a little under 5 gigs of mp3's, so hmmm does anyone where I could buy a thousand cd spindle?
  • Do the editors read Slashdot, ever?

    I ask because I'm a fairly casual reader. I load up Slashdot every couple of days and scan the headlines. My total time spent 'Slashdotting' is maybe 20-25 minutes a week. Despite all of this, I am quite aware of the INSANE amount of story repeats that go on here. Say all you want about the fact that there are multiple editors and each might post without knowing what the other one did (even if it was the same day or the day before!!??), but if they spent only the limited amount of time I do actually reading (just the headlines even, not even user comments!) Slashdot, they'd see these obvious repeats... Wouldn't they? And if they can't be bothered to spend 20-25 minutes per week actually reading the site, then why the hell are they editors here?

    Just askin'. I mean, I slashdot for free so I don't feel the editors "owe" me anything, but I don't understand why they'd be so willing to make asses of themselves on such a widely known public site by not doing simple duplicate checking.

  • A couple ideas to think over.
    • Instead of just having moderator points, assign Operator rating points based on karma. This way, the boneheadedness (or admirability) of the operator can be determined.
    • When a news story is submitted, change slash to have an "Are you Sure" page, which would do a fulltext search to try and find matches within the past few days. This'll give them one more chance to see if the story is a dupe. If it's done, Operators won't have to actually READ Slashdot. Fancy that! More time to work on Everything2 [everything2.com] articles!
    • If an Operator submits too many duplicate posts (Hi CmdrTaco!), make him strip down naked, and run through the streets with only a Plush Tux Penguin [sourceforge.net] to hide his/her genetalia.
    • Make the HREF for the poster point to goatse.cx [goatse.cx] for two days whenever they post a dupe.
    • Give karma points for being a troll when responding to a duplicate article... Fringe Benefit: The Trolls will only come out from under their bridge when the Ops pull a boner.

    I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

  • ... how many of you that posted observations about the dupe story actually thought you were the first to notice?
  • but since this is a duplicate story it really wouldnt be now would it?
  • I was able to download and use an ogg encoder on my home pc, but can't find on one their site today. Can someone provide a valid url? Yes, I've checked their download pages. This would be for Win2000 Pro.
    Thanks, really, I mean that.
  • CNET has an article, and suddenly it's news all
    over again? What I'm wondering, is why are people
    submitting stories for third party articles about
    stories or events were already linked to from
    slashdot?

    Don't the submitters even look at the stories here
    anymore? Are people blindly submitting any new
    tech story on CNET, TheRegister, or Wired?

  • Bad name (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @05:20PM (#4197221) Journal
    The person who wrote in raises a good point--the name hurts Ogg. MP3 is a good name--it's simple (short), easy to say, easy to type, and catchy. Ogg Vorbis is none of those. I'd personally like to see a new name for Ogg.

    • Are you on crack? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2002 @06:41PM (#4197331) Homepage
      It's only a "bad name" because no one recognizes it. Go back to 1997 and try saying MP3 to people in the street -- they'll give you funny looks.

      As for your lies about how "hard" it is to type, yeesh, try counting it. 2 unique keypresses using 2 fingers (with one repeat motion) vs. 3 on 3 separate fingers ends up being the same -- 3 motions.

      Maybe the name doesn't make sense to people who can't count, but for the rest of us, we'll keep using it.
      • Wow, do you have some personal stake in the name? I didn't mean to upset you so much, bottomline is unless you designed the name and have emotions caught up in it, this shouldn't be a debate that brings out such harsh emotions.. Let's take it calmly.

        My point is simple and you didn't address it. MP3 -- letter M, letter P, number 3. em-pee-3. Instantly recognizble. Ogg Vorbis. What the hell is that? Ogg well that's not a word..Vorbis? That's not a word either. It's just a string of nonsense syllables. Sure, plenty of names are, but this one isn't particularly snappy (to my ear, or my friends at least, sorry if you disagree) and isn't even typical of english phoneme arrangment.

        Incidentally, mp3 is so much easier to type that ogg vorbis--3 characters versus two words with a space.
        • If this lame name whinging is the best Ogg's detractors can do then it should go like gangbusters. Incidentally, the audio codec is simply Vorbis. Ogg is a container format like Quicktime. In time we will be able to speak of Ogg Theora and in lotsa time Ogg Tarkin. If I'm not totally mistaken it can contain the Speex speech compression codec as well.

          The name whinging is really lame. Kleenex most certainly "isn't a word". The name certainly doesn't make me think "something to blow my excess snot into". It ACQUIRED that meaning. Think about it.
          • What makes me a detractor? I comment soley on the name (I made no mention of the obvious technical merit [well, maybe not so obvious when compared to next generation codecs]) which I think is lame and a bad thing for the projects success.

            Think about the word kleenex--think of the first phoneme. Also, please reread the last sentence of my second paragraph, a point which you clearly missed.
            • Hoover
              Fanta
              Coca Cola
              McDonalds
              Disney
              Mars
              Pepsi
              Compaq
              Matr ox
              Shell
              Texaco
              Nike
              Adidas
              Reebok
              Sony

              These are all globally recognised brands (OK so some of them are domain specific, others are not). Most of them are made up words, some are random names of unrelated things (Reebok, Mars, Shell etc). None of them (to my mind) indicate anything about what they represent, has this stopped any of them becoming popular? No. Case closed.
              • I say again (quote) "Also, please reread the last sentence of my second paragraph, a point which you clearly missed" and clearly missed again.

                Secondly, examine those names in your list--most are two syllable. And mant of them are actually pre-existing words. None of them have spaces (coke has a dash). I never said a name had to represent what they are either.

                • Yawn.

                  You say it doesn't sound like an english word. I disagree, "Ogg" sounds a lot like "bog" or "fog" or "cog". "Vorbis"? Not a million miles from "morbid", "anxious", "compass". I'm not trying to be an english scholar, but hey, this is a really stupid argument, so what the hell.

                  Besides, lets look back at my examples - it's my guess that "McDonalds" isn't typical of a Chinese word, does that stop it being recognised and used by chinese speakers? Nope. English isn't the only language in the world.

                  I never said a name had to represent what they are either.
                  err...

                  Ogg Vorbis. What the hell is that? Ogg well that's not a word..Vorbis? That's not a word either. It's just a string of nonsense syllables

                  I think most people (myself included) take this to mean that you want Ogg Vorbis to mean something to people who have never heard of it before. It doesn't. Neither does Coca Cola. That is my point. Any word is "just a string of nonsense syllables" until it is taken to mean something and introduced into the language. I mean Linux, what the hell is that? Just a string of nonsense syllables.

                  And as for your stuff about syllables, I think the main problem you have is again one of understanding where mp3 comes from. It's actual name is "MPEG-1 Layer 3", but that's a mouthful, so people refer to it by mp3, which was the file extension. Guess what? I bet people will start calling Ogg Vorbis "ogg" or "vorb" or something like that. If a name is too long people will abbreviate it, or come up with an common alternative, they will NOT completely eschew the thing this name refers to. McDonalds have a product called a "Quarter Pounder with Cheese" - that's a longass name. Their staff have to say it a lot during the day. Do they pretend the product does not exist, do their customers refuse to buy it? No. But some of them use an abbreviation (like "QPC").

                  Anyway I'm nored of this. What it boils down to is you don't like the name. So go and write your own codec and call it whatever the hell you like.
          • If this lame name whinging is the best Ogg's detractors can do then it should go like gangbusters.

            You misunderstand... it's the Ogg advocates that are frustrated when they think something so great is being held back by something so simple as an unattractive name (and unfortunately these things DO make a difference). MP3 is not a great name, but it rode on the back of the well known standard MPEG. Again, I would like to see "MP5" as an alias for Ogg :-)

            The name whinging is really lame.

            I disagree, I think you underestimate the effect something as simple as a name can have on Joe Public (ie non-techies)

            Phillip.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Bad name (Score:2, Funny)

      by blueroo ( 553454 )
      What's so difficult to remember or say about "Ogg". Heck, Ogg and Ug were the vocabulary staples of the cavemen. If it was good enough for cavemen, its good enough for you!

    • Say "Vorbis" then. That sounds good, and that is the name of the Sound encoding.. Ogg is the group of media products.

      Compare with Real[Video|Audio]..

  • This seems to be happening more recently, but at least the editors are admitting it. Maybe it is time for a "duplicate story" category and icon.
  • I listen to mp3 radio, Digital Trance/Techno from the UK, alot of stuff you cant find on tv/radio. I have to order the cd's for the mixes, but you can find unknown mixes on gnutella (if popular)..

    I wonder, since I'm buying imported music, does the RIAA still make money off it? Are there main guntella connections for the UK?

    And speaking on encoding, I love how an Ogg Vorbis encoded cd has no skips between the tracks, really annoying with mp3s.

  • ....and could herald the rise of Ogg Vorbis compatible MP3 players.

    How about...

    ....and could herald the rist of MP3 compatible Ogg Vorbis players.

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