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OEone New Releases and Review 168

Posted by michael from the linux-for-the-masses dept.
Mike Potter writes "After our initial launch, we received a ton of requests asking for support for RedHat 7.3 and Mandrake 8.2. OEone is happy to announce that HomeBase DESKTOP is now available as a free download for those two platforms. There's a great review of OEone DESKTOP at Linux Orbit."
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OEone New Releases and Review More

OEone New Releases and Review

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  • :((( EULA with DRM... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by WetCat ( 558132 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:01PM (#4321951)
    That OE wants to install DRManagement module
    with itself.
    No thanks. I do not want to install any DRM crap on my comoputer.
    I did NOT agree with their EULA.

    • Re::((( EULA with DRM... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Zwack ( 27039 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:20PM (#4322119) Homepage Journal

      Read the EULA.

      It doesn't say that you have to use any DRM it says that third party DRM modules may be used with OEOne and that if you do use such third party DRM modules then you are agreeing that OEOne has nothing to do with it.

      In other words "If you want to use something that has DRM and the DRM screws your machine over then take that out on the person who provided you with the DRM not us."

      It seems fair enough to say that to me.

      Doesn't mean that I'm having anything to do with the software though.

      Z.

      • Wouldn't it be even cooler if they just didn't say anything? DRM isn't a law you know. People need to stop treating it as such.

      • Re::((( EULA with DRM... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:34PM (#4322246)
        No. The words are NOT so mild.

        "6. DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS ("DRMs"). The Software may include third party DRMs as Plug-in components which are subject to their own license agreements. DRMs are designed to manage and enforce intellectual property rights in digital content purchased over the Internet. You may not take any action to circumvent or defeat the security or content usage rules provided or enforced by either the DRM or the Software. DRMs may be able to revoke your ability to use applicable content. OEone is not responsible for the operation of the DRM in any way, including revocation of your content. OEone is not responsible for any communications to or from any third party DRM provider, or for the collection or use of information by third party DRMs. You consent to the communications enabled and/or performed by the DRM, including automatic updating of the DRM without further notice, despite the provisions of section 5(b). You agree to indemnify and hold harmless OEone for any claim relating to your use of a third party DRM."
        "

        So it claims that it
        1) already may contain DRMs
        2) I should consent to that DRM operations
        3) that DRM modules could update itself.
    • Under the guise of "geek" or "open source advocate," I would have to agree that this seems like a rather questionable element of the EULA. That said, I also realize that this is a piece of software designed for my grandmother and that questionable licensing, although a pertinent subject to the future of software development and use, is not even a conscious thought to Jane and Joe Windowsuser. People will use software that works for them regardless of the EULA. The fact that more people have Microsoft and KazAa on their desktops than Linux should be proof of that. People should be supportive of a company trying to offer Windows/Mac users a viable Linux alternative than concerned with the specifics of their license agreement.
      • Tend to agree. BTW I realized that they are trying
        to defend theirselves legally from DRM module
        suppliers' wraith - for example from RealPlayer's.
        If they didn't put that clause - they could lose RealPlayer
        compatibility, which is semi-essential for
        grandmother's computer (a lot of songs are in
        real player format).
  • Yep, that's what I think... soon enough, someone will look at this, and start an open-source, GPL'd, community project to rival it. Hopefully, however, instead of separating users even more (as DEs such as GNOME and KDE have done) it will unite them... is this possible? Hmm...
    • Major portions are already open-sourced. See:
      http://www.oeone.com/developers/ [oeone.com]

      Also, you can visit the #penzilla IRC channel on irc.openprojects.net to speak directly to developers.

      And, you can join the development mailing list here:
      https://mail.oeone.com/mailman/listinfo/developers [oeone.com]

      Cheers,
      Vic

  • Bought it, used it, dumped it! (Score:3, Informative)

    by BigBir3d ( 454486 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:02PM (#4321965) Journal
    It is just a screwed with install of RedHat, minus some important libraries. Takes forever to start the machine, and it is not nearly as configurable of a desktop as KDE or Gnome, or any number of other "smaller" GUI's.
    • You know, if you're going to bash a piece of software without even using it, get your freaking facts straight.

      OEone is a desktop environment, not a distribution.

      For Christ's sake, you could've figured that out from the Slashdot summary alone!

  • ...of having an OS on top of a browser. That seems a little strange to me. Why not just make an OS that has the features of the browser that you want? True, it might be more efficient to use mozilla's code to enhance the OS, but to run it on top of....I'm not sure this is wise. I think I'll stick with KDE for now.

    After thought...
    can you run Mozilla inside this OS, then run the OS again on top of Mozilla, then run Mozilla inside that OS, etc.
    The worlds only recursive Operating System! :P
    • It's funny, I was going to post the same question. I don't see the point. The web-page looks flashy and all, but KDE (I don't use KDE, but *shrug*) does all this and more already

      Downloading it now... I really have to see what all the hoo-haa is about. hmmm.
    • You're not running the OS on top of the browser. I've used OEOne for two weeks (it's not really my cup of tea) and how it works is this:

      OS (Redhat/Mandrake)
      --> Operating Environment (in this case OEOne. but could be KDE/Gnome/whatever takes your pick)

      Also, it's not running on top of a browser. It's an operating environment which is powered by mozilla (XUL/Gecko/Mail/etc) with what looks like the Abiword plugin for mozilla.

      From my two weeks of testing, that's how it appears to work. Also, I tried numerous times to load or install Mozilla, and it always came up with an error.

      If I'm completely way off base here, let me know and add any relevant info.

      Tim

    • Well, I'm pretty happy with my nested logins, although I rarely use them.

      command: gdmflexiserver --xnest

      A new desktop login in a window. Multiple desktops. *sigh* Linux puts Windows to such shame.
    • I think I'll stick with KDE for now.

      If you're the sort of person who reads Slashdot, then OEOne Homebase isn't for you anyway. This is your grandmother's Linux UI. And it's very good at removing complexity while retaining power.

      Gerv
  • Why is "DESKTOP" capitalized? Is it an acronym? While I'm asking, why is ANYWHERE [oeone.com] in all caps? SUITE [oeone.com] is as well. Why the caps? Is it to make the product names stand out? If so, they do so far too much; it makes the web site hard to read. Not that this is an interview or anything, just curious...

    -B

    • Wee wrote:

      Why is "DESKTOP" capitalized? Is it an acronym?

      I suspect it's to suggest a trademark. See, for example, Hormel's insistance [spam.com] on writing `SPAM' (the food) in uppercase and `spam' (unsolicited commercial e-mail) in lowercase, so as to preserve Hormel's trademark. OEone doesn't use a `TM' symbol by `DESKTOP', but they may be hinting at a trademark anyway.

      FWIW, Corel uses something similar in its product names (CorelDRAW!, CorelPHOTOPAINT, etc.)

      It is pretty lame, though.

    • If you say the name out loud, you are required to shout the word "DESKTOP." It's in the EULA.

  • Gee, you shouldn't have. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    No, really. I mean you shouldn't have. Sure it's pretty and all. But, I can't really compare this to KDE 3.0.3 on RedHat 7.3 with Star Office 6.0.

    Now, maybe if my grandmother was still alive and I was going to setup a mail station for her, maybe I would use it. But, as she's dead, you shouldn't have gone to all that trouble. I myself will never use it.

    • I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      But you should have told me before I wrote it. It took me a long time to write it, you know. If I had known that your grandmom had passed away, I could have saved myself a lot of time.

      Thanks for nothing, pal.
  • ...yet the announcement tends to indicate that there is a version available for my favorite distro. Does that mean that I can use the RedHat version on my Mandrake system? Or just that I didn't look in the right place?

    I'm really eager to try this. This looks like it could really be useful for my Mom, who's completely computer illiterate but wants to surf the Internet and send e-mail.

  • plz make it stop!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by jaxdahl ( 227487 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:13PM (#4322063)
    oh man.. look at this bastardization of Tux, the pengiun we all know and love and hate
    pic here [oeone.com]

  • From the Orbit review: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mstyne ( 133363 ) <mike@alp[ ]onkey.org ['ham' in gap]> on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:14PM (#4322066) Homepage Journal
    The install script

    lynx -source http://install.oeone.com/ |sh

    is run in a terminal window as root.

    Hahahaha.... NO. What bigger motivation is there for some misguided soul to go buck wild and compromise that server? People will be running remote code as root, hoping to get this shiny new software. Er, no thanks. The review doesn't mention it, but there HAS to be a better way to install it than this.
    • This is not much different from any downloaded system update. Kernel.org anyone? Sure, you have the opportunity to check signatures, but few desktop users would bother. Bigger distribution tools don't often even do a good job at verification - I don't believe that apt-get even does it (I do love apt-get, however). Most users will take the risk and trust install.oeone.com, for better or worse. Windows users download shareware constantly - people don't seem to have a problem trusting joe-blow server for non-mission-critical machines :)
    • wget it, read it, run it.
    • Better yet, it includes large chunks of uuencoded executables.
    • You have to trust somebody if you want to get a usable operating system on your computer. I'm pretty sure the oeone people have locked down that webserver, anyways.

      Just wget install.oeone.com/index.html and check out the script for yourself.
    • Well it has seemed to work fine for Ximian [ximian.com] for quite some time. I haven't heard about anyone compromising go-gnome.
    • Funny, you install Ximian Desktop like this:

      lynx -source http://go-gnome.org | sh

      in a terminal window as root.

      I haven't heard anyone complain about that....
    • There is a better way.

      lynx -source http://install.oeone.com > install.sh
      vi install.sh

      If there's something in there you don't trust, then don't run it. It's a shell script, not a binary. Just look at it.
    • How about registering domains like www.oeone.org, www.oone.com, www.oone.com or www.oe-one.com? Any permutations or slight modifications of the original domain would be enough to catch a few users. , this is a horrible way to do things. Whatever happened to the days of downloadable installers? I would expect that people who install Linux would have enough sense to choose a link off a website related to their distribution. This is how Ximian [ximian.com] does it on their download page [ximian.com]. I think they still provide the old lynx -source http://? | sh method as well.
      • In what way is it safer to run (presumably) binary only installers as root on your system instead of remote shell scripts? I'm not saying it's safe to run remote shell scripts but a binary only installer could be used to compromise a system in exactly the same ways.

  • OEone install experiences (Score:5, Informative)

    by ArmorFiend ( 151674 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:17PM (#4322095) Homepage Journal
    In the last year I've moved both my mother, and my father and his girlfriend to linux. My mother I did first, and I set her up with a window-maker/gnome desktop. She's smart, but also lazy and never bothered to learn her way around the linux file system. She always relied on me for support, and never felt like it was "her" computer. That was important to her and she eventually blew $2000 on an iMac with OS X.

    My father and girlfriend don't have the money to burn, and also are more easily befuddled by technology. I set them up with a fresh install of OEOne. What OEOne does well is make you feel like you own your computer. They're so far very happy.

    There is a dark side to OEOne desktop, however. Its not really a prodcut, but a PR attemt to sucker geeks like us into using it and giving it mindshare. It has no built in modem control applet / internet wizard. They've written one for their set top box, but pulled it from desktop, basically to keep it from being a useful product.

    Remember, OEOne is written for grandma, and grandma doesn't ever want to miss a call because she's on the net. She sure doesn't want to be unable to call out because she forgot to power down her comp. The mailbug has a really good connection manager, basically you never know the mailbug uses the modem because it does all its stuff when it senses you're not using the phone.

    The user interface is decent, but a little clunky. Its got a lot of tiny mystery meat icons, scattered in unintuitive locations. They need to pay their graphic designers more or something.

    Overall though its not a bad choice. The lack of a window manager is a big win for newbs. Instead there is a task bar and you swap back and forth between tasks. If the task isn't running it starts it up automatically. This is a good idea. I wonder when the condesending bone heads working on windowmaker will figure this out. :P

    If you don't have the $2k for OS X, but you do have access to a geek willing to spend 3 days installing it, I think I'd recommend OEOne desktop. I worry about their committment to open source, blah blah blah. Not offering free security updates is somewhat worrisome too. Oh well.
    • You get free updates by running oe-update from the command line, and the project is completely open source, with details at http://www.oeone.com/developers/
      Mike
    • .. My mother I did first ...

      What does your girlfriend say about that arrangement?
    • Overall though its not a bad choice. The lack of a window manager is a big win for newbs. Instead there is a task bar and you swap back and forth between tasks. If the task isn't running it starts it up automatically. This is a good idea. I wonder when the condesending bone heads working on windowmaker will figure this out. :P

      This is a really important point, and this is the behavior of the oft-maligned OS X Dock. You see application icons in the Dock. You click them to use the application. If the application isn't running, it starts. It almost totally abstracts the user from the concept of which applications are running (much like a Palm interace). I would love to have this on Linux. Seperating out launchers from running tasks just makes no sense to me. You can see the major desktops starting to realize this. Both Windows and Gnome (maybe KDE?) are going towards rolling windows from the same task into the same taskbar entry. Now, if we can just make those entries the launchers (like it sounds like OEOne and OS X do), that would be great!

      • I think the reason to seperatelaunchers and taskbars is that many users have many more apps than they would run at any given time. The concept you mention, having a button that either starts the app or brings up an already running instance works when you have less than say ten tasks, email, wordprocessing,spreadsheet, browser, etc. But for many people there isn't enough room along the bottom of the desktop to have every app have its own icon. Maybe I am missing something. However I do agree that it is a good idea for computers with a narrow set of tasks.
        • That is true. OS X solves this by showing icons for running apps AND apps you've chosen to be in the Dock. When an app is running, you can right-click and say "Keep in Dock", meaning to keep the icon there for quick reference later. I guess the idea is that you will not have very many applications running at once that you cannot fit all their icons along the bottom, and that you will have much fewer "quick-launch" icons than you would total applications in your system, so the number would be manageable. For apps you rarely run, you wouldn't have a quick-launch icon for it.

          I dunno, I find myself accidentally running apps twice on Windows and Linux, because I go to click on the app's icon in all cases.

    • The user interface is decent, but a little clunky. Its got a lot of tiny mystery meat icons, scattered in unintuitive locations. They need to pay their graphic designers more or something.

      A small clarification...that's probably exactly what they did, and if it is, they got what they paid for.
    • I know this is an old story and thread, but I wanted to comment anyway. :) I saw OEone a few weeks ago, and wanted to try it out, but I use Mandrake 8.2 and didn't feel up to installing Redhat just to see OEone.

      Now that they've released it for Mandrake, I have to say that this is pretty much exactly what I expected. It's not something I'd use, but I highly recommend it for the computer newbie. Not necessarily the linux newbie, because a little Windows experience will go a long way in a KDE or Gnome environment.

      The look and feel are unique, everything is point and click and works like you would expect it to, and it has a nice common theme, so it feels like you are running a single application, not playing with windows in a cluttered desktop.

      Overall, I'm impressed. I think this would be great for grandparents, etc, and it's just fun to try something different.
  • ...windows marketing speech.

    Powerful, easy to use, with unparalleled functionality - what more can you ask for in an Operating Environment? More than a standard operating system.

  • Why a startup like this can offer 100 MB of space for $19.95 USD/year and a giant like Apple charges $100 USD/year for .Mac. Remote, hosted backups is to me what is most valuable. I realize these guys don't do website hosting/publishing like .Mac, but does it really cost the extra $80 to do so, Apple?

    psxndc

    • They're doing it all on $5k Xserve boxes, instead of $500 x86 whiteboxes. Considering that, you're getting a bargain. The $5k servers are justified because it's so much easier for them to administrate.
      • > The $5k servers are justified because it's so much easier for them to administrate.

        Yeah, that fact alone will make it easier for me to part with my $100 - to make their job easier. I do agree you get what you pay for, for the most part, but $100/year seems very steep.
    • .MAC is an accessorization to their hardware sales.

      If your dumping $2.5k into a machine, whats another hundred bucks that make better use of your iApps.

      I personally won't be splurdging on it as I have already got a dedicated unix server I use for email, webhosting, developoment, etc. I suppose if I didn't have that, maybe I would consider it.
    • Ask yourself two questions:

      1) Why is Apple a "giant"?
      2) What are this startup's chances of being
      around in five years?
  • support for RedHat 7.3 and Mandrake 8.2

    Gee thats nice, good job Mandrake 9 [mandrakelinux.com] isn't due any time soon. Daresay RH8 won't be far behind either.

  • Reviewer (Score:3, Funny)

    by abigor ( 540274 ) on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:20PM (#4322117)
    The fact that it was reviewed by a guy named Gonzo John certainly lends it an air of credibility.
    • Hey, it's not the guy's fault if mama and papa John were cruel to him, and named him Gonzo...
    • At yet most of us religiously read (and take the advice of) posts by the likes of CmdrTaco...

    • Re:Reviewer (Score:2, Funny)

      by Darmox ( 16016 )
      Could be really cool if it was by Dr. Gonzo...
      "We has two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine and a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls..."
      and a linux desktop to review... We can't stop here, this is daemon country!
  • The install script's job is to checks to see if your OS is one of the RedHat or Mandrake distros just added to the support list. Once it finishes this validation, it downloads the installer binary. Here its just in case you'd like to try it out on a distro like Gentoo or SuSE.

    installer-rpm-glibc2.2-i386.gz [oeone.com]

  • It's just applications and a way to run
    them. All I do anymore is install kde libs
    and gnome libs, blackbox, bbconf, bbkeys,
    and link to the applications I like/need/etc.
    Too many people hop from one thing to another
    as soon as something new is announced in the
    hopes that it's going to be the next big perfect
    thing instead of taking the time to actually
    learn how to configure what they had.
    • This actually stems from a quiet dissatisfaction with what they have. It is my belief that there are a lot of people using Linux because they think that somehow that makes them cooler, better, smarter, etc than everyone else. They don't use it because they actually *like* it, they use it because it is the "geek" thing to do.

      Before I get flamed, let me state that there are a lot of people who use Linux because they truly love it for one reason or another. It's usually pretty easy to tell the two apart:

      Geek 1: Reads email in Pine and has been running Slackware for like 8 years (without a reboot!).

      Geek 2: Switches distros every time a new one hits the FTP servers and boots into Windows XP to play Neverwinter Nights when no one is watching.

    • > All I do anymore is install kde libs and gnome libs, blackbox, bbconf, bbkeys, and link to the applications I like/need/etc.

      LOL. I'll alert the blue shirts at Best Buy and let them know there is an alternative. Their customers will appreciate not having to buy Windows.

  • I am currently using a collection of rather memory intensive (when considering my hardware specs) to do alot of mundane tasks. If this does what it promises, I could maybe save some resources. I think that I will give this a try, see if it helps - I'm always down to throw a little support a company's way that writes Linux apps.

  • I mean, seriously, why bother crippling a perfectly good operating system like linux? If you want a system that won't really let you do anything but browse the web, just use Windows.
  • ... they can check "Looks Cool" off their TODO list. It LOOKS pretty darn slick.

    As for how good it is, I'd say that depends on your application. For a kiosk or home Linux computer for non-geeks (which I believe is the point) I think it'll serve nicely. If you want a customized "power desktop" move on, there's nothing here to see. In fact, why'd you even bother clicking the link? We already know what you are going to say:

    "Why do you need this desktop? <INSERT WM HERE> is way better and far more customizable, and <INSERT GUI HERE> totally rocks! Besides, it's not <INSERT LICENSE HERE> so it isn't really Free."

  • slashdot for sale? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by tps12 ( 105590 )
    This is the second story on a boring, non-Free program we've seen today. If this product were under the GPL and available on Sourceforge, then we wouldn't be seeing a story about it here. The same goes for Trolltech's Ogg Vorbis CD ripper.

    Is it that someone trying to make money writing Linux software is newsworthy? Or is Slashdot getting a piece of the action?
    • If this product were under the GPL and available on Sourceforge, then we wouldn't be seeing a story about it here.

      If this product were under the GPL and on Sourceforge, then it would probably consist of nothing more than a manifesto and three screenshot prototype PNGs.
      --
      (NB: The rest of my .sig reads, "make up the majority of voters.")

    • It *is* free (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Vic ( 6867 )
      I hate repeating myself on Slashdot, but please check OEone's open source release page:
      http://www.oeone.com/developers/ [oeone.com]

      Source code is available via anonymous CVS. OEone also has an IRC channel (#penzilla on irc.openprojects.net) and a developers mailing list:
      https://mail.oeone.com/mailman/listinfo/developers [oeone.com]

      Cheers,
      Vic
  • Ive got a little box I run in the living room - this seems very usefull. With an IM client of some kind, this would be great - browse my home-intranet, send/recieve emails / IM etc... and it looks cool.

    only problem is it "requires" RH - what are the REAL requirements? the bare actual libs etc that it needs?

    Id hate to have to do a whole RH install (w/ SysV init etc) just to drop into this GUI...

    anyone have info?

  • WHY a desktop like this is needed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by |_uke ( 158930 ) <thealterself.hotmail@com> on Tuesday September 24, 2002 @03:54PM (#4322399) Homepage Journal
    As I write this I think maybe only one person who has posted actually understands why something like this is not only usefull, but important.

    No most geeks do not need something like this. However you have to consider the fact that, 98 percent of your computer users are not geeks. On top of that, a good chunk of those people can hardly use their computer.

    Example... My grand parents where set up with a computer last year. They love their computer... but they are VERY timid with it. They are afraid to break things.

    Right now they are using windows ME. Actually I think XP might have been a better choice but at the time it was not really an option.

    Many of the things on their desktop, they dont know how to use. Not only that, they dont WANT to figure out what these things do. They would rather spend their time trying to remember how you go about accessing stock quotes, or reading email than learning new functionality.

    What most people dont understand is the fact that things like window management is intimidateing! Why do I need to worry about what size some window is... how I make it full screen... how to get it back once I clicked some button and made it disapear!

    The idea behind OEone's desktop is not actually a new one. However it is quite a good idea. (and urgh... Microsoft is in the process of developing their own version of this... they have been for a while actually.) The user should not need to know which applications do what... let alone know how to MANAGE the applications, Instead the user is presented with documents and tasks. If the user wants to browse a web page... thats all they should have to deal with. The web page should become their interface. If the user wants to make a document, their computer nees to BE a word processor.

    Anyways, sorry for being a bit ranty. I did not sleep at all last night and Im quite tired =)
  • The more desktops that comes out for linux the better! As in nature the most popular/best will probably win in the end. Those who dont like them use something else.

    It looks a bit silly to me but for a newb it's a real winner. A bit more polishing and its ready for prime time.
  • Ya know... The 5.x series of StarOffice did the very same thing and all I heard on the wire was get rid of the desktop feature in 6.0... (I personally liked the desktop feature, on occasion, and it was quite turn-offable). The only difference I see here are the pretty icons. hmmmm...
  • This will bomb just like Microsoft Bob did.

  • I just read the Linux Orbit article. It is so badly written, that it was almost physically painful to get through it....

    • The article start by assuming that the reader already knows what the product is.
    • The article is littered with grammer, syntax and spelling errors.
    • The article reads almost like sales blurb for the product.


    Needless to say , LinuxOrbit is not in my bookmarks!

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