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Television Media

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine DVD Details Announced 259

Posted by CowboyNeal from the odo-and-pals dept.
l0key432 writes "The first season of Deep Space Nine will be released on DVD in late-February next year in the form of a six-disc box set, Paramount Home Entertainment officially announced on StarTrek.com. The DVDs will contain, of course, all of the season one episodes, newly remixed Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround and many extras. The following six seasons will be released one or two months apart from each other, as the Next Generation box sets were. Good to see this show finally coming out on DVD and getting some of the recognition it truly deserves."
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Star Trek: Deep Space Nine DVD Details Announced More

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine DVD Details Announced

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  • Recognition? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by someguy ( 23968 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @12:43PM (#4685709)
    I'm not so sure how releasing something on DVD is providing recognition it deserves. I could understand saying that if Paramount went all out trying to promote it I could call it recognition. But if, not keep in mind how much low quality stuff gets put out that is "gaining recognition".

    • Re:Recognition? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mceister ( 216015 ) <slashdot AT mceister DOT net> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:24PM (#4685926) Homepage
      Paramount has always treated DS9 as the family dog of the Trek shows. Best example is the commercial for four commanders during the early years of Voyager. Kirk, Piccard, Janeway and... Warf? That was a Paramount produced commercial and a slap in the face to Sisko and DS9. I'm afraid I would be insulted by however Paramount would try to market this release so it might be best they don't.

      The fact DS9 is being released on DVD before they pump out that 'Mister Roger's Neighborhood' derivative of a show called 'Voyager' is all the recognition I need from them. Thank you Paramount for this small favor to the best Trek ever - DS9. (IMHO)

      • Re:Recognition? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by entrylevel ( 559061 ) <jaundoh@yahoo.com> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @02:16PM (#4686136)
        I totally agree. I've been searching desperately for reruns of DS9 ever since it went off the air, and just haven't been able to find them (on television). Most people claim that DS9 was a bad ripoff of B5, and I tend to agree, except for the "bad" part. I thought it was well written, fairly well acted ripoff, with much better special effects. I do wish there were equivalent cast members for Leeta and Talya [sic?] on DS9 though.

        I loved TNG as a kid, but now I watch it and wonder what I was thinking. People in tights standing in a room talking about "issues" while the camera gets shaken every now and then. Nowadays I just feel bad for Patrick Stewart for having to put up with the whole concept (having experienced several of his performances off-broadway).

        I always thought Voyager was a joke. How couldn't it be? First ever (televised, on a Trek) female starship captain. Pilot episode: she gets her crew hopelessly lost and spends the rest of the series trying to find her way back. To add insult to injury, how many times was the Enterprise and its experienced, battle-hardened crew completely destroyed by a broken, underpowered, 20-year old stolen Klingon ship, or a subspace anomaly? Yet Voyager (and its ragtag, fresh-from-the-womb crew) were indestructible, even to the Borg and Species 8579 (or whatever)! Too bad there was never a punchline.

        Of course I like TOS, but after you've seen every episode 700 times, it gets hard to watch. Although I still try to watch it now and then just to support "space-oriented" shows on the SciFi channel.

        Enterprise? Uhm. Right. WTF? Does _anyone_ enjoy that PC drivel?

        As for DS9, does anyone remember the grand finale? I would pay full DVD price just for that. The space battle at the end was absolutely the best I've seen on a TV show to date.

        I personally can't wait. I rarely buy DVDs, but DS9 and B5 are "must haves" in my book.

        • Re:Recognition? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Ponty ( 15710 ) <awc2 AT buyclamsonline DOT com> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @04:06PM (#4686753) Homepage
          Re: Janeway & crew. That's what always got me about Voyager. They had an opportunity to do something really interesting in that show. TNG was all about the biggest, bestest ship in the fleet. DS9 was all about crazy folks dealing with other crazy folks. TOS was all about cowboys in space. They had their niches and they worked. The Voyager crew was a bunch of losers stuck on a lowly science ship. On top of that, they had the nutso Maquis stuck on board with them. They were pretty much average, run-of-the-mill Starfleet officers on a so-so ship with an average captain. They never once had to confront their mediocrity. That's what would have been interesting. If they hadn't come up with a dozen scientific breakthroughs a season or figured out how to singlehandedly hand the Borg's ass to them every time they met. I would have loved to watch a show about average folks in the middle of a really crappy situation having to overcome their own inadequacies before they could even think about dealing with the rest of the universe. Big missed opportunity.

          It's not that different from what's currently happening with Enterprise. They have another one of the most exciting opportunities at hand: It's before the Federation, it's mysterious and dangerous. They're totally unprepared and out of their element. Let's go explore! Who the hell cares about some contrived "temporal cold war" plot. Let's set the stage for what comes next, not for something that was just made up. Don't take every chance to moralize and celebrate humanness, let's get our asses kicked and lose once in a while.
          • I would have loved to watch a show about average folks in the middle of a really crappy situation having to overcome their own inadequacies before they could even think about dealing with the rest of the universe.
            It's called life. Go outside and live a little.

            And for once, do as I say and not as I do!
            • Oh, I do. I can't tell you how many crappy situations I've been in which I've had to overcome my inadequacies (sometimes unsuccessfully). I'm talking about a TV show. I used to really enjoy Star Trek, but now, despite giving Enterprise a season's worth of a chance, I'm just not interested any more.
        • Yeah, those last 11 episodes were probably the best ending for a tv series ever. As sad as I was to see the show end, they made the most of it and then some. They've spoiled me to all others, which seem to just end abruptly, doing stand alone episodes up until the last one or two.
        • As for DS9, does anyone remember the grand finale? I would pay full DVD price just for that. The space battle at the end was absolutely the best I've seen on a TV show to date.

          Shush! Down here in Oz, we're only up to season five!

          If slashdot spoils another damn sci-fi show for me, there's going to be blood on the carpet.
        • I totally agree. I've been searching desperately for reruns of DS9 ever since it went off the air, and just haven't been able to find them (on television). Most people claim that DS9 was a bad ripoff of B5, and I tend to agree, except for the "bad" part. I thought it was well written, fairly well acted ripoff, with much better special effects. I do wish there were equivalent cast members for Leeta and Talya [sic?] on DS9 though.

          I always enjoyed B5 better than DS9, but DS9 was welcomed diversion that I would keep up with since they were on different timeslots.

          I loved TNG as a kid, but now I watch it and wonder what I was thinking. People in tights standing in a room talking about "issues" while the camera gets shaken every now and then. Nowadays I just feel bad for Patrick Stewart for having to put up with the whole concept (having experienced several of his performances off-broadway).

          I agree that TNG is starting to get dated as a sci-fi show, but it's still good stuff. I think Patrick Stewart liked the idea much better than some of his other roles. (What was that stupid kid's movie he was in? He's been in much worse stuff.) Considering he was in X-Men, I have a feeling he enjoys being in diverse roles.

          I always thought Voyager was a joke. How couldn't it be? First ever (televised, on a Trek) female starship captain. Pilot episode: she gets her crew hopelessly lost and spends the rest of the series trying to find her way back. To add insult to injury, how many times was the Enterprise and its experienced, battle-hardened crew completely destroyed by a broken, underpowered, 20-year old stolen Klingon ship, or a subspace anomaly? Yet Voyager (and its ragtag, fresh-from-the-womb crew) were indestructible, even to the Borg and Species 8579 (or whatever)! Too bad there was never a punchline.

          Voyager: A three-hour tour...a three-hour tour... Definately the Gillian's Island of Star Trek.

          Of course I like TOS, but after you've seen every episode 700 times, it gets hard to watch. Although I still try to watch it now and then just to support "space-oriented" shows on the SciFi channel.

          Yeah, but the best way to support your sci-fi shows is to get Farscape back on the air.

          Enterprise? Uhm. Right. WTF? Does _anyone_ enjoy that PC drivel?

          Ugh...pure commericialized bullshit. Ever since Gene and the Wolf left, the whole ST universe has turned to crap. The ST:TNG movies are mostly BS, and they seem to screw with the characters too much. Data's emotional chip is merely a lite diversion, rather than a total change of character. (They turn the thing off during the entire First Contact movie!)

      • Amen! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ink ( 4325 )
        I am thrilled to see DS9 coming out on DVD. I am truly surprised that it's coming out before the silly Voyager series as well. Of all the Trek franchises, DS9 has the most detailed thematic and character development. With TOS and Voyager you can basically sit down to any episode and watch it without any context needed. TNG is the same, but to a lesser extent (they actually changed the status quo from time to time, imagine that!). DS9, OTOH, can have you completely lost if you missed a few episodes since the last time you saw it.

        It will be a GREAT set to own, and I can't wait!

  • Pricing? (Score:4, Informative)

    by l33t-gu3lph1t3 ( 567059 ) <arch_angel16.hotmail@com> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @12:44PM (#4685715) Homepage
    Are we going to be victimized on the price of this series just like when STNG came out on DVD?

    • Re:Pricing? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Slashdotess ( 605550 ) <gchurch@SLACKWAR ... com minus distro> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @12:49PM (#4685739)
      Victimized? $100 is pretty expensive, but when you think about it, you're getting about 26 40 minute episodes (of the best series ever -- refering to TNG) I'd say the price is resonable.

      • Victimized? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Prince_Ali ( 614163 )
        That is a pretty strong word to use unless Paramount had a gun to your head. I think they didn't charge enough, because if you consider yourself "victimized" you would have probably payed even more (considering that you act as if you had no choice).
      • Yeah, you're still getting a lot, but there are other tv shows on dvd that cost about half that, such as buffy, 24 and stargate sg-1. They probably don't have as many extras or remixed 5.1 dolby digital sound though, so I guess that's what you'd be paying for.
    • Yes, we'll be victimized. At $100 per season, 26 eps (42 mins each) per season, usually 4 eps plus some added stuff per disk... That's about 7 disks. 100/7 = $14.29 per disk

      That's 160 or so minutes (over 2 and a half hours) per disk. How much do you need to spend on a new DVD released the same day? (Usually $19.99 or higher).

      Oh, we're definitely being victimized.

      And if you don't like the price, you can always wait about 2-3 years for the price to come down to about $80. It's called an "Early Adopters Fee", and is used by almost every sales industry on a new product in high demand. Just like CD's, VHS, DVD's, software, and others, the price will come down over time, and also as demand becomes less.

      When Voyager box sets come out in March 2004, they too will be $100 each, and the same complaint will be brought up by people like you.

      I'm done. Now you can go ahead and whine about how this shouldn't be compared this way because it's a 10 year old product (or, in the case of TNG, 15 year old product for the first season).
      • Just re-read the article summary, and it said 6 discs. That's $16.67 each (not including the bonus CD (encyclopedia excerpts for one, audio tracks for another, audio book for another) that's coming with each box of TNG. Those will probably also come with DS9, except of course have DS9 instead of TNG stuff on them.
  • I believe the first season has been out on DVD for some time now. I rememeber when I moved from NY to RI the local stations did not have it so I looked into purchasing the series on DVD and they only had the first season. To add salt in the wound, there were only one/two episodes per disc and they were 19.95 per disc. No set. I fgured it would probably cost upwards of $2K for the whole series at that rate (if it had been available). What a rip off that was. Someone there was greedy. Glad to see they are finally releasing it in a more sane config.

  • Yay! (Score:5, Funny)

    by acehole ( 174372 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @12:48PM (#4685737) Homepage
    We can see wayun(?) die all over again.

    Who needs kenny when you've got him.

    • Re:Yay! (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      it's Weyoun, p'tak!

  • Hell's Yeah!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Who here agrees with the order of the Star Trek franchise from top to bottom:

    TNG
    DS9
    Enterprise
    Original
    Voyager -- A Shame to be preceded by the words "Star Trek" IMNSHO

    • Re:Hell's Yeah!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dhsmith ( 624230 )
      I have to agree with this. Though The Original Series should be due a little more credit, maybe 3rd place on the list. The Original Series not only kicked off the whole Star Trek phenomenon, but also spawned 6 movies. 3 of which are some of the best Star Trek to ever be released. Also, Voyager was certainly not as strong as any of the other series but it did have it's good points. Good space battles every now and then, and sometimes even a good plot. As I have a Klingon symbol tattooed on my right arm, you may take the above comments as somewhat biased...
      • Well, ya' know, I've always thought people should give a little more respect to Ted Bundy. He was a pretty good cook, and actually invented THE best sandwich, ya know.
    • TNG
      DS9
      Enterprise
      Original
      Voyager

      Bah. Here's the correct order:

      Voyager (all solid actors, good characters, good stories)
      DS9 (close second: great story arc, mostly good characters)
      TNG (mediocre with occasionally good stories, a single exceptionally talented actor more than making up for all the Data-learns-about-love crap)
      Enterprise (worth watching if nothing else is on, I keep holding out hope that the next episode will be good)
      TOS (better than almost anything else from the '60s but still unwatchably bad - except for the thinly-veiled social commentary episodes which are a cross between Twilight Zone and the History Channel)

      I like the Beatles, and their early work was groundbreaking and revolutionary and changed the face of rock'n'roll and all that. But I still fast-forward past "Please Please Me" to get to something from the White Album.

    • Best Start Trek series ever.
      1. DS9 -- This series grew more and changed more than any other Trek series. Even in its early seasons it could surprise you with something great. By its third season it was firing on all cylinders. By its fourth season it had flowered and grown into the into the best Star Trek series ever.
      2. Original -- Forget the cheesy special effects and sometimes outdated stories. The writing on this show really sparkled. They could create excellent, moody stories with minimal sets and primitive special effects. William shatner, for all his flaws as an actor made Kirk into a memorable character -- a larger than life hero that was perfect for the cowboys in space era that the original Star Trek depicted.
      3. TNG -- It paved the way for modern scifi on TV. Patrick Stewart was probably the best actor to ever star in a Trek series.
      4. Enterprise -- Strictly ST lite at this point but frequently enjoyable and entertaining.
      5. Voyager -- The Star Trek series that never grew up. It had perhaps the greatest potential of any Trek series but the writers pissed it all away.

  • Recognition? (Score:3, Informative)

    by carb ( 611951 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:02PM (#4685797) Homepage
    Is this so much about recognition as it is about money? Too many people have this perception that when releasing old stuff on DVD, the producers deserve some credit - like they're doing us a favour. Trust me, I'm sure Paramount would love to snag a few million more to add to their pocketbooks.

    Don't get me wrong, I love DS9 though.

  • If only DS9 writers continued to be work on Trek (Score:4, Insightful)

    by loggia ( 309962 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:02PM (#4685801)
    It's too bad the many talented folks on DS9 were let go to work on so many great other shows after the show ended.

    Of course, the rich tapestry that was DS9 probably threatened Brannon and Rick and thus we ended up with Voyager and Enterprise.
    • Rich Tapestry? Did I miss that one in some episode?

      The last series that I ever saw that had that would be Babylon 5. Jeremiah seems to be turning out to be that too.

    • Ron Moore was one of the main guys to then go onto Voyager from DS9 (he did Q&A sessions available on TrekWeb [trekweb.com]).

      He went over to try and sort some of the problems out (i.e. continuity reset button, more fluid story arc, etc), but ended up leaving because he couldn't work with people who just didn't give a shit about trying to make the series better anymore (i.e. the writers).

      Although I don't have a link of where he gave his reasons for leaving, but it's out there... somewhere (a bit like my desire for watching Enterprise, it has completely disappeared).

  • Here is the info from the star trek website: (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:06PM (#4685819)
    Star Trek fans wondering what to do with life once all seven seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation on DVD have been released come December can take heart: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine on DVD is following right behind.

    Season 1 of DS9 on DVD Paramount Home Entertainment has announced that the entire series of DS9, plus a Gamma Quadrant's worth of special extras, will be issued on DVD in 2003 with Season One due on February 25th.

    Season One of DS9 on DVD will come in a six-disc collector's box set containing, naturally, all of the Season One episodes, along with new, never before seen featurettes. New seasons of DS9 will be available every other month.

    The DS9 DVD's feature newly remixed Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround and exclusive retrospective featurettes. Fans who pick up the TNG Seasons Six and Seven will be able to get a peek at the upcoming DS9 DVD's, as special trailers have been added to the TNG sets.

    Season 1 of DS9 on DVDThe DS9 DVD Contents are as follows:

    Disc 1: "Emissary," "Past Prologue," "A Man Alone"

    Disc 2: "Babel," "Captive Pursuit," "Q-Less," "Dax"

    Disc 3: "The Passenger," "Move Along Home," "The Nagus," "Vortex"

    Disc 4: "Battle Lines," "The Storyteller," "Progress," "If Wishes Were Horses"

    Disc 5: "The Forsaken," "Dramatis Personae," "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets"

    Disc 6: Special Features, including the feature Deep Space Nine: A Bold Beginning, Crew Dossier: Kira Nerys, Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season One, Secrets of Quark's Bar, Alien Artifacts: Season One, Deep Space Nine Sketchbook, Deep Space Nine Chronicles, Section 31 Hidden Files and a Photo Gallery.

    So DS9 fans should take January to clear off more shelf space, because on February 25, the wormhole opens.

  • Season 1 of DS9... (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Xpilot ( 117961 )
    If I remember correctly, DS9 season 1 was kinda lame. I heard it got better in later seasons, but they don't show DS9 on TV where I live any more.

    I did manage to watch the entire run of Babylon 5, and that was much better than any Star Trek, in comparison.

    • Re:Season 1 of DS9... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Zorikin ( 49410 )
      > I did manage to watch the entire run of Babylon 5

      Funny you should mention that.

      Continuity was always a strong part of B5, and never a feature of Trek. The former was basically Straczynski's vision, whereas the latter has always had mostly-unrelated scripts by a diverse crew of writers.

      Trying to watch B5 when it was first on the air was always frustrating because I could never sit down for it the same time every week, and there would be so many things going on that I didn't understand because I'd missed a couple of episodes. I've caught virtually all of DS9 in reruns, but there's no way I could bring myself to watch Babylon 5 again unless I had the whole series in some sort of box next to me.
  • when you can just go buy the Babylon5 season 1 box set now and see the same story [ me ducks :-) ]

  • Aged for goodness (Score:5, Insightful)

    by solendril ( 415296 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:23PM (#4685923) Homepage
    Funny that you mention it... I've been tuning in recently to TNN's TNG broadcasts, and remembering how good, and how BAD Trek can be. Some episodes are funny, spooky, interesting or downright cool, but seeing it now as an adult, its not nearly as cool as I remember it being when I was a kid.

    The Best of Both Worlds may have been better than most of the movies, but half the time the script didn't live up. The chemistry of TNG had that special something that later series tried to capture with little success, but it DIDN'T have the awesome writing of later series.

    Late-season voayger had some fantastic writers at the helm, and as for DS9, a decade after TNG, I'll say that it's severly underrated. Never had Trek ventured so much into politics and religion, never had individuals had so powerful motivations and messages. DS9 had better characters and a deeper milieu than TNG. But because there was no space opera, no flying around and blasting aliens, it wasn't as successful.

    Nevermind, I guess I'll buy the DVDS. But that's just my 2 cents.
    • Never had Trek ventured so much into politics and religion, never had individuals had so powerful motivations and messages.
      This is a concise statement about what I didn't like about DS9 in particular, and Star trek on the whole. I grant you, dealing with alien societies and such allows a lot of room for political/religious commentary, but I never felt it was done properly. Star Trek, in any of it's incarnations, never felt like anything more than flight of fancy to me. Too often, a perfectly good sci-fi story about enterprise, DS9, etc got derailed by some half hearted attempt at socio-political commentary.

  • Despite the fact.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:26PM (#4685932)
    ..that it had no coherent plot arc that spanned more than four episodes in a row (O'Brien is suicidal one episode, his normal self the next!), and the fact that it became a rip off of Babylon 5 ("They're having a war. We need one! Sheridan's going beyond the rim? Let's send Sisko to the Prophets!")..

    I *liked* DS9. I'd actually say I liked it more than Next Gen. It certainly kicks the crap out of Voyager and Enterprise.

    Why? One word. Klingons. They are, without a doubt, the coolest part of the entire Trek franchise. They aren't based off of screwed up yet glaringly obvious mythology, like Vulcans and Romulans. They're not just another alien species with bumps on their nose, like the Bajorans and fifty other races. They.. Well, okay, two reasons - Cardassians were pretty damned cool - Garrick, at least.

    I wish my tailor went out and killed people.

    Despite my bitching about DS9's plot arc, or lack thereof, I'll give them credit - they started forging one in the last seasons. So far, it's the only Trek series to have done that.

    Since I have a slight hangover, I'll cheer loudly, and leave you with this quote:

    "Comment?! Klingon programmers do not comment!"

    • Re:Despite the fact.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "..that it had no coherent plot arc that spanned more than four episodes in a row"

      What? The last 2 seasons were one big arc.
    • Don't forget the Ferengi. They were developed quite a bit in DS9.

    • Re:Despite the fact.. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by abhinavnath ( 157483 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @04:23PM (#4686843)
      You know, I was thinking about this earlier... I think it would be cool to have a spin-off about a *Klingon* ship on it's adventures through space. The characters would not be as one-dimensional as, say, Voyager, and they could do some interesting things with Klingon history, ethics etc. Also, a whole lot more fighting and no stupid Prime Directive ;)
      • I think it would be cool to have a spin-off about a *Klingon* ship on it's adventures through space.

        Not likely to happen. The makeup would be a killer. As it is, the Klingon cast members of the various Treks have to spend two hours before shooting begins putting on latex and makeup. Takes some time to take it off, too. Can you imagine having to do that with an entire cast--including all the extras--every episode? It boggles the mind...

    • Re:Despite the fact.. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Aexia ( 517457 )
      To be fair, much of the lack of longer plot arcs was Paramount's meddling. The best and prime example being the start of the 5th(?) season with the war with the Klingons. What was supposed to be a 10 episode long arc got crushed to a single episode thanks to the suits at Paramount.
    • DS9 was the only show that had genuine pathos, a sense of deep tragedy. The moment I'm thinking of at the moment is when Gul Dukat's illegimate daughther Tora is killed as a traitor by Garak. (It was so rare in the other series for someone to get killed whose name you knew or cared about.)

      In another episode, the essential crew (ever notice how all the most valuable people go on all the dangerous away missions) tried to salvage a crashed Dominion warship and are besieged by the Jem'Hadar (I had to check these spelling, BTW -- see startrek.com). One of the crewman is wounded and dies slowly! This was one of the few times the essential nastiness of dying in war was explored. Most often, Star Trek was very hygenic about these things, even vaporizing the corpse.

      DS9 was generally more character-centered, both individuals and entire civilizations such as Ferengi, Klingons, the Jem'Hadar/Founders symbiosis, Bajoran, and so on. Voyager was the polar opposite, dominated by technobabble -- I think even the writers call it that, it's inserted after the script is written, which should give a sense of its irrelevance.

      The real world doesn't have a plot arc, and I'm not sure a long-running series should either, though it does need continuity. DS9 was mostly about struggling to exist in a hostile crossroads of the galaxy. If you want predictable plot arc, again you have Voyager. No I didn't hate V'ger, but it has good episodes whereas DS9 was a good series.

      One bit of analysis I would like to throw out is that it is disturbing that the captain the Trek people choose to snub, it's the only black captain and really the best and most powerful black actor in the entire franchise. (Let me explain that Uhura is wonderful but given little to say or do until the movies -- and Travis (Enterprise) has so far (non) developed like Uhura; Tuvok is a sterile bore who made Spock look like a rabid Klingon; Geordi, well, admit he got on our nerves; and I'm not quite sure whether to count Worf, though it goes without saying he's a cool dude, at least I would never criticize him to his face :) I don't mean to suggest or exclude any racial prejudice, but that decision was plainly stupid; Avery Brooks was one the most talented actors they ever had, on a par with Patrick Stewart who, when given good material, really shone.

      Incidentally, was it ever adequately explained how Klingon technology evolved in a society where they kill each other over social slights?
      • Oops -- Tora was not "killed by Garak" the tailor; she was killed by what's-his-face, you know the bad Cardassian who later becomes a grudging good guy when he realizes the Founders are going to exterminate his people.

        Just trying to head off a correction for my typo!
      • You forgot the best DS9 episode. I think it was called "In the Pale Moonlight" or something like that where Sisko basically hires Garak to assasinate a Romulan senator so that the Romulans join the war on the side of the Federation.
  • And this is Deep Space Nine... Not great cinema was it...

    And when the format changes (as it will, you can pay all over again.)

    You can. I won't. I hope that there's too few suckers out there for the studios to make yet another buck off this.

  • DS9's Slogan ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:38PM (#4685988)
    "To boldy stay where no man has stayed before."
    • You've never seen DS9, have you AC?
      I was initially pissed off at my TV station that promised Trekkers that they would bring the new Star Trek series to our screens, and when they fell through, I transferred that anger to DS9 itself. I was saying, "Well how good could a show where they don't go anywhere be?" It was sour grapes, until I say my first show in Winnipeg on a 4 inch black and white screen, and I loved it. I was in Trek withdrawl, and DS9 was my new fix.
      Years later, I started to tape the show at my Grandparents house, and when the tape was full, I'd bring it home and watch it. I got to see Voyager this way too. I started watching just when both series started to get really good. I watched the last 3 seasons of DS9 with a 3 week tape delay. Anyone who has seen more than a few shows, knows that they leave the station frequently, and even when they don't, interesting aliens visit the station anyway. And there is always Quark's bar and holosuites ;-)
      TNG doesn't go flying around in every show, and not everyone centers on their voyage, anyway. To keep costs down, both TOS and TNG shot entire shows in closed sets with the meager benefit of stock ship warping shots. I can think of dozens of DS9 episodes where the station is not the scene of the action. And around season 3, Worf and the Defiant show up too :-)
      So don't be like me, and bash DS9 before seeing it. Like any Trek series, if you watch it, you'll like it. And if you don't, you aren't using your imagination very well.

  • Why eat tofu when you can have beef? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bourne ( 539955 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:43PM (#4686007)

    The first season of Babylon 5 is available NOW [amazon.com] on DVD.

    For those who aren't aware, or haven't seen, Babylon 5 has a far more interesting and COHESIVE story than DS9 - and DS9 was the closest approximation ST ever had to a cohesive storyline.

    What do I mean by cohesive? Simply this: there's no reset button. Everything isn't solved at the end of the episode, all mutations un-mutated, all weird twists un-twisted. There are episodes in Season 5 which are tied closely to what happened in episodes from the other four seasons.

    There's a real story - beginning, middle, and end. It spreads over the full 5 seasons. And, if my opinion isn't already clear - that's huge. It's a good story, and worth exercising your attention span for.

    Sure, their special effects budget wasn't as rich as $T. Some threads get mangled because an actor wasn't available two seasons after the seeds were planted. When you consider the difficulty of producing a cohesive epic 5-season TV show, though, B5 did pretty good.

    • I'll be getting them both.

      Because one story is good doesn't render the other bad. I think they were both good series, for very different reasons.

      That they're both set on a space station is pretty much where most similarities end.
    • The B5 DVDs are great - the only down side is the full series won't be out for a while. The second season is due out April 2003 and the third the following November. Like a good book, the DVDs are hard to put down.

      Thanks to the fact it's a flowing plot line I've seen all of season 1 over the past three days. Now I'm stuck. I *need* to see season 2 but I have to wait.

      *argh* I hate seeing only half a movie - and that's what like seeing only one season of B5 is like.

      • the only down side is the full series won't be out for a while.

        Yeah, but that's true for any series. They always milk it. You could just wait until season 5 comes out and THEN watch them ;>

    • As for the cohesive plot arcs, the assumed "laws" of syndicated television seemed to preclude them. The extras for STNG said that they finally gave in on no episode-to-episode continuity after the "Best of Both Worlds", to make "Family" to deal with Worf's dishonor and Picard's Borg-ification, the writers and producers said that those plot arcs demanded attention and got them.

      Of course, there a lot of factors, but the creator of Babylon 5 had to fight *hard* to beat his show through to keep a story arc. I think it was a good thing that he didn't back down on that so easily as otherwise it might have been just another DS9 - oops, there are accusations that DS9 was based on B5 as it was announced not too long after JMS pitched it to Paramount.
    • There's a real story - beginning, middle, and end. It spreads over the full 5 seasons.

      Actually, the story was spread out over four seasons, owing to the fact that Straczynski wasn't certain a fifth season would be paid for until about four episodes before the end of the fourth. The fifth season connects with the other four, and carries on the plotlines developed there, but it also feels tacked-on and epilogous (?) because, essentially, it is.

      Sure, their special effects budget wasn't as rich as $T.

      JMS was proud to inform fans that in every single season, B5 came in under budget due to the heavy use of computer-gemerated graphics instead of the models "Star Trek" and its ilk were dependent upon. I'd say he very effectively did more with less.

  • Best moment on DS9 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <RealityMaster101@gmail. c o m> on Saturday November 16, 2002 @01:56PM (#4686056) Homepage Journal

    I loved this scene [fortunecity.com]:

    Quark: "I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this."
    Garak: "What is it?"
    Quark: "A Human drink, it's called Root Beer."
    Garak: "Ahh, I don't know....."
    Quark: "Come on....Aren't you in the least bit curious?"
    Quark: "..........What d'you think?"
    Garak: "It's vile!"
    Quark: "I know. It's so bubbly and cloy, and happy."
    Garak: "Just like the Federation....."
    Quark: "But do you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it you begin to like it...."
    Garak: "....It's insidious...."
    Quark: "....Just like the Federation."

    • Re:Best moment on DS9 (Score:4, Funny)

      by barc0001 ( 173002 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @02:39PM (#4686259)
      I really liked almost any scene with Garak. My favorite was from this [startrek.com] episode.

      After Sisko had bribed Quark to drop the charges against Tolar:

      Sisko: "Who's watching Tolar?"
      Garak: "I've locked him in his quarters. I've also left him with the distinct impression that if he attempts to force the door open, it may explode."
      Sisko: "I hope that's just an impression?!"
      Garak: "...It's best not to dwell on such minutiae."
    • It's been a while since I saw it, and I don't even know what episode it was in, but my favorite went something like this:

      Ferengi Receptionist: Have a seat. [Holds out his hand]
      Quark: How much?
      Ferengi Receptionist: Three slips of latinum.
      Quark: I'll stand.
      Ferengi Receptionist: That'll be two slips of latinum.

    • There was an episode where whatever the main characters imagined popping into reality.....

      Quark: "Odo, Your problem is that you have no imagination."

      several scenes later:

      Odo is sitting in his office when his viewscreen turns on. It shows Quark locked up in the brig.

      Odo: "Quark! What are you doing in there?!"
      Quark: "You should know! You're the one who put me in here!."

      Odo: "No imagination indeed!"
    • My favorite quote is also from Garak, mostly because I can identify with it.

      scene: Garak and the rest of the DS9rs are on the Defiant getting reddy to enter battle

      Garak: We're all going to die.
      Bashir: Thank you Garak. We always look forward to your optimisitcal appraisal of the situation.
      Garak: Quite the contrary Dr. Bashir. I always try to look on the bright side, it's just that experience has taught me to expect otherwise.

  • Whatever... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 2Bits ( 167227 ) on Saturday November 16, 2002 @02:13PM (#4686128)
    I thought /.ers don't hate MPAA/RIAA so much, right? But then, every week, we see this "Oooh, shiny DVD/CD" on some shit repackaged over and over, over (ok, I don't know if this one is repackaged or not, as I don't watch TV for the last five years now). And then every new or repackaged DVD/CD is a must-have.

    No wonder we get all these stupid DMCA, permanent mickey mouse copyright extension, regional DVD encoding, "copy protection scheme" CD, etc. People would scream "bloody hell" one minute and rush to spend money on whatever MPAA/RIAA care to put on the market the next minute after. If I were an executive of an MPAA/RIAA-member corporation, I would have done exactly the same thing to milk you people, because that's too easy.

    Sometimes, you can feel so lonely trying to make people understand MPAA/RIAA are bad, and there are many ways you can change things, and one of these is to vote with your money. Am I the only person here who don't own DVD player, don't have cable TV and don't watch TV, don't buy CD, don't go to cinema?

    (I do go to live concerts tho).

    Whatever, you can mod me down into oblivion for venting here, but I'm going to look at /. prefereneces if I can filter out all these movie/tv/CD/DVD-related junks.

    • Well, you might be but I would assume the ones (other than the /. editors) posting on the "Ooohh, shiny DVD/CD" stories are not the ones posting on the "DMCA is bad m'kay" stories. Its just a thought.
  • I am a huge fan of all the other series, but I really disliked DS9. It was all politics to me.

    It's odd because most fans I know didn't care for Voyager, but I thought it was great.

    I like Enterprise a lot too. Took a little while to grow on me but it's not too bad.

    More than anything I think I'd like to see a followup series AFTER STNG with Riker as Captain.

  • Which season had the Borg season finalie (or was it season premiere) episode? That's my all time favourite - STTNG and DS9 together.

    I'll be buying that boxed set!
  • the natural sequel to DS9 of course - in which Captain Steven P. Jobs explores the strange new worlds of the seemingly enless tract of space called Intel 4 and it's sister universe Athlon.

    The main ally in Athlon will be the Durons. A technologically slow but friendly race with a cranial crest of metal spikes which can be used as a weapon in pinch and the ability to do most calculations in their heads.

    Captain Steve on the intrepid ship OSS Xmac will, on a weekly basis, have to partner with the inferior but faithful Athlons to deal with the schemeing inhabitants of the Intel universe and their ability to subsume entire worlds by taking over the population using their superior weapons R&D and the ability to heat up and melt plastic if threatened.
  • DS9 was a very good Trek...but they missed a great opportunity at the end. Consider these facts:

    The Changelings are worried enough about the Federation to engage in a major war against it

    Changelings are excellent spies. Even after the Federation was aware of them, and taking measures against them, we saw Changelines take the place of the top Klingon, and infiltrate very high into Starfleet.

    Starfleet has been penetrated before. E.g., in TNG, there were those aliens that crawled down your throat and took over...those got into, I think, at least an Admiral.

    We've seen many more, in TNG and the OS, that tried to penetrate Starfleet, but were foiled.

    We also saw in several DS9 episodes that there are corrupt or rogue elements within Starfleet. Section 31, for example. Whether these are really due to bad humans, or the result of alien penetration is up for speculation.

    Given all that, here's how they could have ended the series. The Changelings are fighting the Federation not because they just have an irrational hatred of solids from years of mistreatment before they started the Dominion. Rather, they oppose the Federation because they have spies at the highest levels and know the truth. The "good guy" Federation that Sisko is fighting for is just a sham, covering up evil people (or aliens) that are trying to grab galaxy-wide power.

    The series could have ended with Sisko realizing this, and changing sides, working as a rebel trying to overthrow the evil side of the Federation to save the good side.

    • Yeah! (Score:2, Funny)

      by mtec ( 572168 )
      The episode'd be called...

      "Switch"

      I can see the promo for it.

      *Sisko, shifting from foot to foot*
      I was writing a message, on the console, when - beep! beep! beep! beep! beep! beep! - and like, half of my message was gone! And I was like... ngggh? Evil Federation spies had devoured, my message.
      It was a really good message. And then I had to do it fast... so it wasn't as good. I could see how Changlings feel. And it was like ... a bummer...

      I'm Benjamin Sisko ... and I'm a Dominion Captain.
    • The problem with that is that they could care less what solids controlled what, as long as they didn't interrupt their prepetual orgy in the great link. Conquering the galaxy seemed like an expedient way to prevent that.
  • Yes, you get 26 episodes, blah blah blah, but...

    Stargate: SG1 runs $45-55 per season (5 DVDs).

    The Simpsons runs about $25-35 per season (3-4 DVDs).

    $100 a damned season for TNG? You're looking at $700 plus tax for the entire series.

    Even TOS comes out to around $700-800 for all episodes--at barely 3 seasons, I believe, that's more like $200-$300 per season!

    If the Star Trek eps were down to SG1 prices, about $45-55 per season, I'd buy all of TOS, TNG, DS9, and any others they put out and I wouldn't think twice about it.

    At $100 a season though...forget it.
    • Agreed, their pricing is horrible. I'll never buy them at the prices they're asking for-- MAYBE if it dropped it $65 per season, but that's still pushing it for what is really JUST a TV series. They made their money off of the advertising, I wish they wouldn't feel the need to milk the fans even more for wanting something better than videotapes of the series...
  • "News for Nerds", sure, but Trek nerds will already know about this. Others won't care about a boxed Star Trek set.

    It seems to me that something like "Friends - season 1" boxed set would be more appropriate. It shows people with knowledge of hygiene dressing nicely and having normal relationships. Very useful information for nerds.

    Or how about when the latest "Girls Gone Wild" dvd is released? After all, man does not whack to jpgs alone...

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